Tantric Jyotish

[Guest guest]

Many thanks for your kind words and interest. Das Gupta is one strong resource

among (what I think, anyway) is a meagre handful of reliable texts in English

on Tantric traditions generally, and specifically on the roots of the Bengali

religio-literary (if such a silly word exists; it's past this Infant Jyotishi's

bedtime) universe. I have been reading chunks of it for the past several months

and using it mainly as a reference when presenting informal talks at my local

Buddhist group; what I must do soon is simply read it from cover to cover. I

need to clarify here in case I slurred and blurred ideas earlier that this is

in _no_ way a work on Tantric Jyotish. What it will do is reveal that much of

what goes on in Indian ritual frameworks today has tantric antecedents and/or

will take on even greater lustre and richness when viewed through a tantric

lens.

Ajay, I know from both the humor and the cadences of your letter that your

humility is of the deep, hardy and true type that I so long to cultivate in my

person and heart. It is patently _not_ affected humility, as is becoming

almost de rigeur (to achieve business success -- sickening) among my

countrymen, in my wonderful and pathologically dysfunctional nation. So your

letter is a balm - refreshing and healing -- and I feel the same order of

warmth from --and connection to -- you, Carol .(Regarding your son, I think of

Peter O'Toole as T.E. Lawrence on the silver screen uttering what I have swiped

& made my most public mantra: "Nothing is written!" This is the only way I

can live. In a recent phone conversation, Das referred to those rare

individuals (iwas it 10% or much, much smaller?) who can truly rewrite the

screenplay of their lives (or for the pure theists on board, so fully cooperate

with God's grace and plan that it is only God's creativity flowing through them

and nothing else) AS "COSMIC HACKERS"!!*

Ajay, your image of the diners inside and outside of the Ritz really got me.

Poignant to read it, because you don't know which one I am in the Ritz or how I

happened to get in. I'm that mangy dog I described in the other email. This

doggala likes to imitate the tantrikas at their feast celebrations by dragging

a bone around everywhere Just now this pooch has snuck himself and the bone

scandalously into the high-caste vegetarian feast held at the Ritz*. (BTW,

this dog is oddly vegetarian, save the sacramental meat he consumes trying hard

to emulate his true sadhaka masters and siblings. He is really trying to

integrate everything. He recognizes Das's predicament as a sacred calling; as

harrowing, terrifying for all involved; as apparently insoluble, as ultimately

workable. POTENTIALLY workable. The game is on, and this dog wants impossibly

to attain a precious human birth AND enlightenment somehow in this mutt

lifetime.

I like the intelligent discernment you both exhibit. If you discuss spiritual

matters with others regularly, you have learned to watch out for the Mystical

Fundamentalists. You know there are trustworthy practitioners about, and also

MOFO*** mountebanks.

The sellers of snake oil exist in all dimensions from the grossest to the most

subtle; and can co-opt any and all markets and human situations.

Oh, Ajay, a sexy affair is probably safer than hanging around in the smashan,

but if your heart draws you toward any to the sadhanas performed in the latter,

you will inevitably gain access to them. (I assume you know Svoboda's _Aghora_

series.)

I am looking for ways you and/or othets might get a hold of Das Gupta's book.

I will try to scan a passage or two from the bk later today; & will also

forward some links I've found relevant (Here's one to start, Ajay: Go to

http://www.vajranatha.com/; click on "Excerpts from Published Works"; and go to

the selection titled "Wicca, Paganism abd Tantra"

Off to bed now! All my best.

Sincerely.

Jesse

PS Many thanks for putting up with this huge tsunami wave of Mithun verbiage.

_______________________

* This and other signs proved to me that Das is in fact a natural Tantrika --

I also say responsible heretic. (Sometimes you see the ones afffected really

badly by their calling or the calling of the muse/Vision end up in epileptic

seizures until they completely welcome and fully ccomplish the calling. I have

to emphasize that this does not make Raghu infallible or somehow beyond the need

for the most basic kind gestures. His is a psychic and quite visceral

vulnerability which _most_ requires such kindnesses. Those on the list who

would seem to smell blood on the list surface: who want him to buy the General

Electric (GE) brand life, GE brand scripture, GE brand exegesis and GE brand

condoms -- [cf. Trungpa's _Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism_ if the GE

metaphor is too far out -- I'm talking to others; I know Carol, Das and the

Mike my superb ally from the USMC will get the quip!] as if there were only one

prescription for any given problem/crisis -- show me they only smile and

celebrate God from the neck or maybe the chest up; not with every cell in their

body! The whole body is not linear, monolithic or capable of being fit into

one spiritual scrip. The whole body can enact whole new yogas, whole new

creative planetary dances and languages: for the human body experienced as a

whole is the mandala of the universe in microcosm. On a global level, Das'

depression-as-vocational-calling/wake-up call is not atypical. Happens all the

time. In individual communities and our specific intertwined lives, however,

such a descent into dark night / call to enact new planetary dances and

healings IS A RARE CRISIS. May we all by the example of such a crisis yearn

to see new angles and possibilities in our own and other's charts and thereby

co-operate with divine creative agency!!!

**The banquet is naturall sponsored by GE (see above note).

*** MOFO = FUTHERMUCKER

In a message dated 8/12/2002 1:31:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, eyelite (AT) blr (DOT) vsnl.net.in writes:

Dear Jesse,

I couldnt reply to any earlier mails 'cos my PC is down and scan mail on

borrowed PC / time.

One thing i do know is the subject intrigues me as much as it does you abnd I

havent been able to find anything save a few practitioners whose spectrum of

Tantra allowed them not just to practise Jyotisha, but were actually Tantrics

who pretended they could play God by prescribing remedies to all and sundry for

a plethora of problems that supposedly ranged from a wart on your toe to Aunt

Agatha.

I would keenly like to share whatever limited knowledge we can ( yeah, sure,

its like me staring in at you from the sidewalk while you are dining at the

Ritz) but keenness never hurt did it?

I believe Tantra in Ancient India wasn't as maligned or misunderstood as it

is today because Tantric Jyotishis used their Tantric craft expressly to do a

divination / foretelling. Tantrics did not transcend into realm where you

believe you can change the fortune due to you by tweaking a few knobs. It just

isnt done.

I've heard of many siddhis that use souls slaved for the purpose of divination.

In fact hearsay had it that souls were classified into seven type ranging from

Plain Vanilla Goodnik types to the downright malicious havoc wreakers. As long

as you used the goodniks you were good. Not far from my place there is a temple

that is behind a graveyard where a jyotisha session is conducted every Amavaas (

New Moon ) Night. Typically, the answer seeker visits the temple with his

grievance / conundrum and the answer is obtained by God knows what rites that

are conducted in the graveyard behind the temple between 12:30 and 3:00 in the

night. (I haven't been able to find out more because my wife would probably

demortalize my soul by shedding it of earthly load if she came to know I hang

around Graveyards at midnight. I do believe she would suspect another woman

rather than Tantra. )

I am simply dying to know what Dasgupta's book is all about (;o). Also if

you could point me to correlations between tantric practices and western occult

practices we would be a step closer into understanding more. I believe you have

an endless list of mediums etc., who do this just like our neighbourhood

shamans, only our shamans are dressed to resemble some of the less emancipated

souls they represent. Warlocks with dreadlocks is how i put it.

Ajay

Bangalore - India.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jesse,

 

I couldnt reply to any earlier mails 'cos my PC is down and scan mail on

borrowed PC / time.

 

One thing i do know is the subject intrigues me as much as it does you abnd

I havent been able to find anything save a few practitioners whose spectrum

of Tantra allowed them not just to practise Jyotisha, but were actually

Tantrics who pretended they could play God by prescribing remedies to all

and sundry for a plethora of problems that supposedly ranged from a wart on

your toe to Aunt Agatha.

 

I would keenly like to share whatever limited knowledge we can ( yeah,

sure, its like me staring in at you from the sidewalk while you are dining

at the Ritz) but keenness never hurt did it?

 

I believe Tantra in Ancient India wasn't as maligned or misunderstood as

it is today because Tantric Jyotishis used their Tantric craft expressly to

do a divination / foretelling. Tantrics did not transcend into realm where

you believe you can change the fortune due to you by tweaking a few knobs.

It just isnt done.

I've heard of many siddhis that use souls slaved for the purpose of

divination. In fact hearsay had it that souls were classified into seven

type ranging from Plain Vanilla Goodnik types to the downright malicious

havoc wreakers. As long as you used the goodniks you were good. Not far

from my place there is a temple that is behind a graveyard where a jyotisha

session is conducted every Amavaas ( New Moon ) Night. Typically, the

answer seeker visits the temple with his grievance / conundrum and the

answer is obtained by God knows what rites that are conducted in the

graveyard behind the temple between 12:30 and 3:00 in the night. (I haven't

been able to find out more because my wife would probably demortalize my

soul by shedding it of earthly load if she came to know I hang around

Graveyards at midnight. I do believe she would suspect another woman rather

than Tantra. )

 

I am simply dying to know what Dasgupta's book is all about (;o). Also if

you could point me to correlations between tantric practices and western

occult practices we would be a step closer into understanding more. I

believe you have an endless list of mediums etc., who do this just like our

neighbourhood shamans, only our shamans are dressed to resemble some of the

less emancipated souls they represent. Warlocks with dreadlocks is how i

put it.

 

Ajay

Bangalore - India.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jesse,

I think I'd like to debate Varanatha about a few things, especially his

abbreviated synopsis of great religions. He delights in presenting the

extreme rather than the middle-of-the road or reformed perspective, which

means he leaves out the majority of practitioners of those religions. He

tweaks my curiosity with his concepts about why there is suppression of the

feminine, though. I dearly wish for all women to be liberated from the burkas

of social ignorance.

Cosmic hackers... Makes one laugh, thanks for the good thoughts!

Love,

Carol

[Guest guest]

I'm going to be away with family for a few days with limited email access. Hope

to be able to respond beyond a note like this then. For now. . .

Vajranatha / John Reynolds is both a romantic who can indeed tend to simplify

as you say AND a sincere and genuine ngakpa (lay Buddhist tantrika) from all I

can tell. I have many friends who will attest probably to both points (!), and

definitely to the latter. I've not yet met him. Debates can be productive --

sure, take it on!

I'm happy to be communicating with you. Many blessings -- and many thanks for

sharing so much of your heart and the love and miracles in your family. I'm

really happy to have connected with you.

Lv, JIA

In a message dated 8/13/2002 12:02:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, Carolhook (AT) aol (DOT) com writes:

Dear Jesse,

I think I'd like to debate Varanatha about a few things, especially his

abbreviated synopsis of great religions. He delights in presenting the extreme

rather than the middle-of-the road or reformed perspective, which means he

leaves out the majority of practitioners of those religions. He tweaks my

curiosity with his concepts about why there is suppression of the feminine,

though. I dearly wish for all women to be liberated from the burkas of social

ignorance.

Cosmic hackers... Makes one laugh, thanks for the good thoughts!

Love,

Carol