to Robyn from vedic astrology

October 2, 2002

Dear Robyn,

Jaya Jagannatha!

I know that you are addressing your letter to me instead to Robert becuase you are his student.

Robert his delirium of madness he was the first who send his accusations and

blasphemy against me on this list. I never send anything connected to this

issue on this or other lists (except Achyuta) until Robert started his "Star

Wars".

At least I deserve to say my side of story and defend my self, I hope so?

So if you have any complaints please direct them to proper person at least. I

appreciate your efforts to spread Jyotish knowledge but you have to understand

that there are also some qualifications for astrologers.

Please read relevant verses in Brihad Parashara Hora Shastra and see for

yourself if Robert is qualified to be so called "Guru". What others think of

Robert you can see at http://sjvcusa.org/ and than click on the "Important

announcement about Robert Koch" link. Robert started his accusations on this

list and I am simply defending myself. Robert never offered any facts to prove

that I am wrong. The proof that he has no standing in the SJVC-USA is that

finally (thanks God) at least he made a web site for his organization. It is

called "Sri Jagannath Center" which further proves that their is nothing Vedic

left there because it is not even Vedic any more (and he is supposed to be

teaching Vedic science) and is actually in line with his activities which are

not Vedic or brahminical at all ( I guess he is just becoming more honest about

himself). How can any so called "Guru" try to charge US$100 per hour from his

students for teaching them Jyotish???!!! To me it sounds like extortion and on

top of that he is commanding his potential students that he should be their

Guru. This is really the heights of nonsense. This would serve to you readers

as an eye-opener to understand what Guru shouldn't do and is very beneficial

for them unless they want to get cheated and ripped off for $100 per hour for

learning Jyotish. A charlatans like Robert Koch should definitely be exposed so

that innocent persons who are sincerly tryng to study Jyotish shouldn't get

cheated by them.

Finally to summarize, Robyn, your letter was addresses to wrong person and if

you were in illusion about Robert's saintly qualities as he claims on his web

site, let me tell you that he is just a business man who wants to make money

and it happens that he has chosen Jyotish as his profession. Of course because

I strongly oppose that a Guru should charge money for teaching Jyotish, Robert

got so disturbed, mad, angry and totally got out of control because I was

ruining his business by telling people the truth (which obviously he didn't

like) and this is how this whole thing started on Achyuta list and not like

Robert is trying to present it to others. Later he tried to take over our web

site (www.sjvcusa.org) and was making all kinds of false and nonsensical

accusations against me, than he saw that he is going nowhere and that was his

last attempt and as you can see it failed. The whole thing started on Achyuta

where I said that Gurus should not take money for teaching Jyotish, it is

unethical (becuase their Gurus didn't charge them for teaching them Jyotish)

and goes directly against Vedic priciples, priciples of Guru conduct and

parampara and Robert just cannot take that and still wants to be a "Guru". I am

sorry but these are simple facts.

Hare Krishna,

Dinanatha Das.

-

Robyn

vedic astrology

Sunday, September 29, 2002 2:38 PM

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: SJVC Site - Hacked?

Dear Dinanatha Das,I want you to be aware that new people from South Africa are

now readingthese posts. People who had hoped to study Jyotish and who were

eager andnaive enough to think they would find it here.Last month, an article I

wrote on Jyotish appeared in our leading new agemagazine Namaste praising the

SJVC specifically and advertising the groupand the good work it has done for

Vedic astrology. This magazine is highlyrespected and has a wide circulation in

my country.Have you *any* idea how embarrassing it is to have to explain to them

nowwhy the so-called "leaders" of this "sacred" and "holy" science (which iswhat

I called the article) are behaving on the list?I understand you all have your

wretched little grievances and petty hatesand dislikes. For heavens sake keep

them off the list. As Ramapriya says, weare actually not interested. We want to

learn Jyotish and hopefully becomebetter leaders than what we have witnessed

here.No-one person "owns" this list. The good Lord does, not you, or Robert

Koch,or anybody else for that matter. In one minute it could be demolished

ifthat was His will.Keep the power mongering out of Vedic astrology.Yours

sincerelyRobyn Simpson-"Dinanatha Das"

<vedic (AT) sjvcusa (DOT) org><vedic astrology>Monday, September

30, 2002 4:44 AMRe: [vedic astrology] Re: SJVC Site - Hacked?> Dear

Ramapriya,>> Jaya Jagannatha!>> >The PS in your letter is a lot more important

than the body of theletter.> An ax to grind with any individual is no reason to

pull the plug on an> entire chain of activities that affect a whole gamut of

>utterly> unsuspecting people. Neither SJVC nor the VA forums is a platform for

you> and Robert to mudsling each other. How could the rest of us be

botheredwhat> you think of each other? We're >only inconvenienced by the

inconvenience.>> I think it is rather important to clarify certain things

especially if you> are the victim and someone is accusing you for no reason,

just try to put> yourself in my position and imagine how would you feel.>>

There has been quite a few people complaining to us about Robert Koch's>

practices and just to illustrate experience one of them with Robert Koch> here

is one email about Robert Koch that we received recently (you canalso> find it

at: http://sjvcusa.org/robert_the_great.htm )>>> ->

Kripapm3 (AT) aol (DOT) com> dnd (AT) dinanatha (DOT) com> Sunday, September 29, 2002

7:16 PM> Robert Koch>>> Hi, my name is Paul Manouvrier. Your letter was

forwarded to me by XXXX> (name omitted for security reasons) in that I'd had a

somewhat similar> encounters with Robert Koch. Although it has been awhile

back, let me seeif> I can briefly sketch what happened.>> I've been doing vedic

astrology on my own w/varying amounts of attentionand> inattention since the

early 80's. Obviously, I could've used a mentor and> this is how I found Robert

Koch through the SJVC web site. At first, wehad> a pleasant conversation where

he agreed w/me that most of the Americanvedic> astrologers that I'd met through

the ACVA were not very good although they> all seem to claim that they'd spent

time in India and had some> credentialthat testified to this. The fact that

they weren't any betterthan> I was led me away from them and to a Hindu

astrologer living in OaklandCa.,> Pandit Pravanji, who claimed to be the Father

of some female Saint orGuru.> In short, he essentially claimed to channel his

in-laws and spent a lot of> my girl friend's reading telling her not to perform

oral sex.>> Robert Koch informed me that unlike the other mentors, he charged

$100> dollars an hour for his consulting or mentoring services. I was going to>

think about it.>> Scrolling down his web site, I discovered an advertisement for

Pandit> Pravanji on his web site. I emailed him back and said that I did not

wantto> be associated with that fraud and was irrate in that suddenly, he

seemedno> better than the David Frawley crowd, et. al. He emailed me back that

I was> wrong. I emailed him back and said that I knew what I saw. We then

entered> into a progressively heated arguement via email where he referred to

my> chart, which I'd given him, and said that this was exactly my problem,that>

I'd done this to Guru's in a past life. I truly didn't know whether tolaugh> or

explode. One, I didn't want Robert for a Guru or a teacher of any kind.> All I

wanted was for him to tutor me in the Dasa system that Rath had> advocated in

his book. Second, even if I'd wanted a mentor, then itwouldn't> be a guy that

via email angrily insisted on being my Guru and that I obey> him to the point

that I'd said that I'd more likely kick his ass if I were> ever in Oregon.

Third, his astrological analysis was designed tomanipulate> me and not

necessarily true. What he based it on was taking anastrological> molehill and

turning it into a mountain. He motive was to control me which> is what would

get a pschologist sued for malpractice. This made memad(that> he would be

willing to do this to the uninformed) so I forwarded the email> to Sanjay Rath.

He asked why I was so angry? I enquired that since hedidn't> know me, why

wouldn't he ask Koch that, first? And, also, into his faulty> astrology. He

said that he dis-agreed with Koch about charging and agreedto> mentor me; but

then responded 6 weeks later to my enquiries about Koch's> astrological points

and said that he was too busy.>> Understand, other than being interested in

learning Vedic astrology, Imake> no grand spirtual claims other than that i

loosely follow Swami> Sachichidannanda of Mysore, i meditate, and worship God.

I eat chicken &> fish, have a bad temper, & even shoot hanguns although only at

papertargets> and not at animals. However, I do know a fair amount of Vedic

astrologyand> know enough to know that Koch is limited and his behavior is

manipulative,> mercenary, and rancerous. He is not anybody's Guru but a

complete fraud.>>>>> Archives: vedic astrology>>

Group info: vedic astrology/info.html>> To

UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology->> .......

May Jupiter's light shine on us .......>> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu ||>> Your use of is subject to

>>Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

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mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

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October 2, 2002

Dear Dinanatha Das,

Wow you are busy on the web tonight.

You are wrong in your first assumption. Perhaps you should consider taking up

philosophy instead of Jyotish.

I addressed my letter directly to you Sri Dinanatha Das.

My correspondence with my Jyotish teacher and guru, Robert Koch, which has been

of some time period, (almost three years now), has always been conducted with

the utmost civility, professionalism and courtesy, and Robert has never once

charged me for any teaching just as a matter of interest.

When you wake up and this is all over, you will regret what you have done. I am

a good student of Jyotish. I learn fast. I too have studied your chart.

I am also a journalist. And a very experienced journalist. I am taking note of

everything that is happening here. No doubt you would like to tear my

reputation apart as well while you are about it.

I also feel very sorry for you young man. I pray for you.

There is obviously some deep pain inside you that is eating you up and tearing

your guts apart. Gandhi said that the only devils we fight are the devils

inside our own hearts.

I shall continue to pray for you, and for the students of Jyotish, and for the

SJVC or the SJC or whatever you human beings want to call it. The parampara

will not die because of one young man who is angry and hurt. It has withstood

imperialism, centuries of suppression, corruption by materialistic people and

even you, Sri Dinanatha Das, even you.

Good night, I am now going to sleep.

Robyn Simpson

-

Dinanatha Das

gjlist

Wednesday, October 02, 2002 11:20 PM

[GJ] to Robyn from vedic astrology