MY RIGHT TO SPEAK--my thoughts about your post -- MD

[Guest guest]

Let me add my 2 cents of worth to this thread:

 

1. Who started this war on these public forums--either

Vedic Astrology/gjlist

 

2.People started on VA list saying "SJVC hacked?--and I know who are

behind these". And Robert replied publicly saying that "Dinanath Das

& Co were doing this etc".

 

3. SJVC founder Pandit Sanjay Rath in these either VA/SJVC groups

asked for help regarding subscription fees for websites(sjvc.org etc)

and he also mentioned that Dinanath/his sjvc office, was bearing

these charges. Sanjay thus confirmed that legality of these sites and

dinanath is legal owner of these sites. Why do we call this as

hacking/hijacking. Of course, you people could have discussed on

adminsTrivia lists rather than ranting on public forums saying

dinanath hacked these sites.

 

4. Thus dina das defending himself publicly. Who is at fault. It is

WHO, started on Vedic astrology saying "SJVC hacked". You people

could have kept this privately in admin lists. Who exposed Dinanth to

public.

 

5.In my view, Jyotish become another profession to make money. Not

for scholarship. How many on these lists are pursuing jyotish

honestly for scholarship. None. No need to talk about charges, fees

etc. It would be fine to put on sjvc site with various fees structure

for different classes(yoga-s, introduction etc) like in US

universities in terms of $100/some money per 1 quarter credit. In

this way, one can start business. It is good :-)

 

 

Vatal Nagaraj.

 

 

gjlist, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:

> Robert:

>

> I've been reading the posts back and forth between Sanjay and Dina.

> Not in a single instance has Dina used swear words or threatened

> anyone with physical harm. What Dina has stated appear to be

> statements of facts, i.e. you charging fees for Joytish lessons,

> Laxmi's ex-husband being convicted for drug and weapon charges,

etc.--

> If these are not statments of fact, you or Laxmi should rebutt

them.

> In fact, Sanjay himself has stated that you were charging fees.

>

> You, however, have used swear words as well as threatened Dina with

> physical harm.

>

> Your mail itself goes on to show who's the righteous in this

dispute.

> Well, Dina was expelled for stating facts on the board, you

however,

> should be expelled permanently for using profanity and threatening

> Dina with physical harm.

>

> You post most definitely doesn't reflect that of someone who has

the

> character and temprament to lead SJVC-USA. I most definitely don't

> want the CEO of an organization which I'm the member of use

> profanities and threaten physical harm. You could become a serious

> legal liability to the organization.

>

> I don't know you or Dina or Sanjay personally or professionally.

I'm

> just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

> this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

> completely impartial in posting my thoughts.

>

> MD

>

>

>

>

>

> gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rk@r...> wrote:

> > MY RIGHT TO SPEAK

> >

> > Now, all this week I have been sitting in my office in a Gandhian-

> like

> > silence, while a certain individual by the name of Dinanath das

has

> had a

> > free run to drop the contents of his bowels on the Internet about

> me. I

> > don't know what he's been eating this week, but I can tell you

here

> and

> > now, I will not sit here and eat the remnants of his lunch

> anymore. Now I

> > want to say something for myself, and all the persons who have

been

> > maliciously and mercilessly slimed by this boy this week. This

is

> > something a man has to do, apart from his Arudha (whatever it may

> be), so

> > pardon me if anybody feels this is too harsh, or you would rather

> me tell

> > you about Jyotish, or whatever. If you are not willing or ready

to

> hear

> > this, then don't read from here on:

> >

> > TO DINANATH DAS

> >

> > You do not know me, have never met me, yet you have trashed my

> reputation

> > and name based on here-say, lies, and complete misinformation.

> You have

> > maligned good people, all spiritualists and Jyotish teachers;

have

> trashed

> > your Jyotish guru, disgraced a lady on the Internet, committed

> fraud and

> > self-misrepresentation, hi-jacked a whole organization, stolen

its

> web

> > site, and all the while sanctimoniously sitting on the throne of

> judgment

> > of others, setting yourself up as some kind of perfect holy man

and

> the

> > emblem of truth. You have broken the hearts of my friends,

> clients, and

> > students. You have made my wife and my mother cry.

> >

> > Well this is my message for you: YOU ARE A WEASEL AND A COWARD.

> Come out

> > from behind your computer screen for one moment, and stop

> terrorizing

> > people whose sincerity bears itself out by its own example.

Come

> and meet

> > with me. Here where I live near the Oregon mountains, there are

> lots of

> > meadows and open spaces where we can meet. Or, lets meet in a

> place of

> > your choosing, yet where its just you and me. Do this like a

man,

> instead

> > of like a whiny little boy who couldn't get his way. Come and

meet

> with

> > me, and TELL ME WHAT YOU REALLY THINK TO MY FACE, YOU SON OF A

> BITCH.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> > Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> > Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

> > visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

> > http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

> > Ph: 541.318.0248

[Guest guest]

Dear MD (what is your real name, I didn't get it in your other post)

 

At 08:50 PM 10/3/02 +0000, you wrote:

 

>Robert:

>

>I've been reading the posts back and forth between Sanjay and Dina.

>Not in a single instance has Dina used swear words or threatened

>anyone with physical harm.

 

OK, I guess I have to spend my afternoon explaining some things to

you. Who are you? I've never met you before, you know nothing about me

personally, yet you've gone down the whole Dinanath abandonment and anger,

come vengeance odyssey, buying the whole thing hook, line, and

sinker. Hello? Do you know me? Now you have *the whole truth*, right,

like my past, my values and principles, what I've been doing for the last

30 years of my life, etc. In a few days, I am going to post a biography

about myself, yes, straight from the horse's mouth, free from the

illusions, venom, and character assassinations of Dina-natha. Just for the

record - then you'll have a chance to see the real persona emerge.

 

Following up your statement above: I can tolerate a whole lot of things

said about myself, but do not tolerate it easily when women, good people,

knowledgeable people, and respectful people, get trashed opening and

publicly by a rude, unprincipled upstart. In fact, most of the most

significant and important events of my life, such as receiving Diksha

initiation from a self-realized soul, travelling all over the world

teaching Vedic dharma, learning Jyotish, serving as a full time priest in a

Vaishnava/Hindu temple, writing a book on Vaishnava etiquette, and being

published in numerous journals, all occurred before the coward by the name

of Dinanath was even born. People who know me, sometimes say that I do

not promote myself enough; they say, that I practice genteelness and

modesty to a fault; they encourage me to be more outgoing or forceful with

the projection of character; or they tell me that I am too good for this

world. while I love my wife, friends, students, and supporters, and very

modest in the assumption of these accolades, I myself am a bit of a

warrior. Why fight? I FIGHT ONLY WHEN DHARMA, CORRECT BEHAVIOR, AND THE

DIGNITY OF GOOD PERSONS ARE BEING THREATENED. Otherwise, you do not hear

me speaking harshly on any of these lists.

 

You don't like swear words? Neither do I, frankly, but sometimes they add

a particular exclamation point to what you are trying to

communicate. Sorry to offend you.

 

Threats of physical harm? Who ever threatened anybody. I just wanted to

see if Dinanath had the courage to say what he is saying to my face, rather

than hiding behind his computer like a coward. Sometimes a man has to do

what he has to do. Are you with me on this? Every man understands the

tough talk - but that's not really what this is about. Its a matter of

dignity and honor. Not so much mine, but that of Sanjay Rath, Lakshmi

Kary, Brendan Feeley, and other good people who have been disgraced by

someone who hasn't even seen the first Saturn return yet, what to speak of

being pottie-trained.

 

Alright, back to you statements:

 

>What Dina has stated appear to be

>statements of facts, i.e. you charging fees for Joytish lessons,

>Laxmi's ex-husband being convicted for drug and weapon charges, etc.--

>If these are not statments of fact, you or Laxmi should rebutt them.

>In fact, Sanjay himself has stated that you were charging fees.

 

Hello? Do you live in this world, or on some other planet? Here in this

world, charging a fee for rendering an honorable service, so that people

are helped and guided, and so that you can go down to the store and buy a

bag of rice and Moong dahl to feed yourself, is not such as terrible thing,

is it? Oh, so we should render the highest service, and then beg from door

to door to pay for our rent and bills, and then maybe if I'm not

successful, I will become homeless or have to get a job at Walmart. What

nonsense! What age do you live in?

 

Do you want to know where this whole fee = sin really came from? In

by-gone ages in India, the ONLY persons who received astrology readings

from the Brahmanas, were the Kings. In turn, the Kings provided a very

comfortable life for those astrologer/brahmanas, as it should be. Thus

they could teach and counsel without the encumbrances of having to worry

about getting money, paying the bills, and feeding their families. Well,

in case you haven't noticed, we live in the 21st century America, there are

no Kings, everybody can learn astrology, or get an astrology reading who

wants one, AND NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY YOUR BAG OF RICE IF YOU DON'T CHARGE

A FEE. Ridiculous! Become part of the human race, man. Oh, and you're so

pure, that you don't do anything sinful, right? This is what Das was

trying to teach everybody. Get off the high-cloud, sanctimonious, holier

than thou trip, and get real. Thank you........

 

About Lakshmi Kary: As far as I understand, you don't know her either, do

you? Where all this poignant commentary came in regarding other people,

their characters, their past, their values, and this huge big judgmental

stamp on who they are, is just an outrage. Where do you live? Haven't you

heard that the current evolution of the human race demands that we let go

of judgments, and out-dated apostolic style incriminations, and start being

a bit merciful? Are you a racist too? Do you hate women?

 

Anyway, what the hell does Lakshmi Kary, her current values and dedication,

her tireless contributions to the spreading of Jyotish and Vedic dharma,

have to do with what an ex-husband did over 20 years ago?

 

You want statements of fact: Well my statement of fact, is that (1) you or

Dinanath do not know what you're talking about; (2) neither of you have the

balance, the grace, or the decency to see the real work, heart, and

contributions that Lakshmi or myself are rendering. Instead, you want to

sit on that seat of sanctimonious judgment, and by casting down your

statements of incrimination, you are indeed weaving the web of your future

entanglement as well. Bear this in mind: the fruits of action, are

invested within the nature and form of the action itself. When you reach

that final moment of life, you will think back, and you will see that his

whole witch-hunt got you nowhere except another round of birth and re-birth

in this world.

 

>You, however, have used swear words as well as threatened Dina with

>physical harm.

 

Oh, the poor little coward. Lets protect him, or find him a new guardian

angel and rock to crawl back under. What block did you grow up on, and

what school did you go to? Didn't you ever have to call someone out

because he disgraced and slimed your dignity? Its a raw, unfettered, law

in our side of the gender spectrum, mister. Don't be so lily white, and

get real. You'd do the same thing if someone threw your good name into the

latrine. Look at American history: Abraham Lincoln had to fight a dual,

because he distributed critical and maligning information about a political

adversary. That's the way it was in those days. I'm not into shooting

guns, but there is a particular law here that you're not getting: put all

the purity high-talk crap aside, and a different side of the male impulse

emerges.

 

>Your mail itself goes on to show who's the righteous in this dispute.

>Well, Dina was expelled for stating facts on the board, you however,

>should be expelled permanently for using profanity and threatening

>Dina with physical harm.

 

Do you want to know why Dinanath was expelled? I'll tell you why. His

feelings were hurt, because initially Sanjay Rath put him in charge of

setting up SJVC in America, yet later was replaced by someone better and

more competent as the President, i.e. Brendan Feeley. Dinanath never got

over it. He would not work with anyone cooperatively, and then started

calling Brendan (who is a scholar and a gentleman of impeccable character

and reputation, I might add) names, such as "liar", "deceiver", etc.

etc. Verbal terrorism, is the best way I can describe it. We tried to

work with Dinanath - we gave him chances to learn how to respect elders, to

exercise humility and judgment, but he was blinded by his anger. Finally,

the radical step of removing him was the only recourse, and that is what

started this whole terrorism campaign to viciously malign me, Brendan, and

Laksmi, and now, finally he has defiled his own guru, Sanjay, while his

wife sent an email threatening Sanjay. Do you like hearing the real

story? Well this is it.

 

>You post most definitely doesn't reflect that of someone who has the

>character and temprament to lead SJVC-USA. I most definitely don't

>want the CEO of an organization which I'm the member of use

>profanities and threaten physical harm. You could become a serious

>legal liability to the organization.

 

Like I said earlier, I do not like speaking in this tone, and further, if I

become angry, it is to defend the dignity and honor of others mainly, and

lastly myself. I apologize for entering my humanness, and stepping out of

the guru modality. Don't put me in the guru modality, if you don't think

I'm can live up to it. Give me break, MD, or whatever your name is. I

guarantee you, you will have these moments in your life as well.

 

Anyway, you seem to be so sensitive about swear words, but, Oh, its OK to

malign one's guru, to hi-jack his organization's web site, to defile and

disgrace a lady in public, to send out false, incriminating, and misleading

information on the Internet, and start a fire-war that brings out the worst

in people. That's OK, right, but we're naughty for using a swear word when

the exclamation point fails to satisfy!

 

>I don't know you or Dina or Sanjay personally or professionally. I'm

>just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

>this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

>completely impartial in posting my thoughts.

 

You don't know us, bring forth a completely dogmatic and rigid point of

view, and now you're telling me that you're "completely impartial"? I

think I'd like to know you, MD, as I sense that under it all, you're

basically a nice guy. But before that can happen, why don't you come out

of the stone age and get real.

 

Robert

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

Ph: 541.318.0248

[Guest guest]

Robert:

 

1) You haven't read my other posts. I'm all for charging fees and

selling software and books for royalties. The statement I quoted from

Dina' mail relates to SJVC's policy of Gurus not charging fees and

you were acting contrary to that and Dina was alleging this

shorcoming of your and Sanjay acquisensed.

 

2) As to swearing, I'm not sitting here on my high moral horse

pontificating about how bad is using profanity, I use profanity too.

Howeve, I definitely don't use profanity in presence of people who

work for me (even in presence of men who work for me). As a leader in

my company, I'm required to maintain a certain attiquete and as a top-

leader in SJVC-USA, you're required to maintain that attiquite even

more.

 

3) As to Laxmi, I asked her to rebutt Dina's allegation on the board

as well as privately. If she doesn't respond and Dina continues to

post candid, tranparent statements, who am I to believe?

 

Yes, Dina does come across as a "poor little child" who's been hurt

and therefore I'm pleading in his favor as you guys have not

justified in any way shape of form the reason to accuse Dina of

hijacking this and that and later bombard the board with "how bad is

Dina" postings. Sanjay even took help of Dina's chart to plead on the

board as to how and why is Dina a bad person.

 

Now, if all of Dina's allegations are bogus, I'll definitely not

stand up for him.

 

Robert, you fired the first shot that began this debate, you find out

a way to end it.

 

MD

 

gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rk@r...> wrote:

> Dear MD (what is your real name, I didn't get it in your other post)

>

> At 08:50 PM 10/3/02 +0000, you wrote:

>

> >Robert:

> >

> >I've been reading the posts back and forth between Sanjay and Dina.

> >Not in a single instance has Dina used swear words or threatened

> >anyone with physical harm.

>

> OK, I guess I have to spend my afternoon explaining some things to

> you. Who are you? I've never met you before, you know nothing

about me

> personally, yet you've gone down the whole Dinanath abandonment and

anger,

> come vengeance odyssey, buying the whole thing hook, line, and

> sinker. Hello? Do you know me? Now you have *the whole truth*,

right,

> like my past, my values and principles, what I've been doing for

the last

> 30 years of my life, etc. In a few days, I am going to post a

biography

> about myself, yes, straight from the horse's mouth, free from the

> illusions, venom, and character assassinations of Dina-natha. Just

for the

> record - then you'll have a chance to see the real persona emerge.

>

> Following up your statement above: I can tolerate a whole lot of

things

> said about myself, but do not tolerate it easily when women, good

people,

> knowledgeable people, and respectful people, get trashed opening

and

> publicly by a rude, unprincipled upstart. In fact, most of the

most

> significant and important events of my life, such as receiving

Diksha

> initiation from a self-realized soul, travelling all over the world

> teaching Vedic dharma, learning Jyotish, serving as a full time

priest in a

> Vaishnava/Hindu temple, writing a book on Vaishnava etiquette, and

being

> published in numerous journals, all occurred before the coward by

the name

> of Dinanath was even born. People who know me, sometimes say that

I do

> not promote myself enough; they say, that I practice genteelness

and

> modesty to a fault; they encourage me to be more outgoing or

forceful with

> the projection of character; or they tell me that I am too good for

this

> world. while I love my wife, friends, students, and supporters,

and very

> modest in the assumption of these accolades, I myself am a bit of a

> warrior. Why fight? I FIGHT ONLY WHEN DHARMA, CORRECT BEHAVIOR,

AND THE

> DIGNITY OF GOOD PERSONS ARE BEING THREATENED. Otherwise, you do

not hear

> me speaking harshly on any of these lists.

>

> You don't like swear words? Neither do I, frankly, but sometimes

they add

> a particular exclamation point to what you are trying to

> communicate. Sorry to offend you.

>

> Threats of physical harm? Who ever threatened anybody. I just

wanted to

> see if Dinanath had the courage to say what he is saying to my

face, rather

> than hiding behind his computer like a coward. Sometimes a man

has to do

> what he has to do. Are you with me on this? Every man understands

the

> tough talk - but that's not really what this is about. Its a

matter of

> dignity and honor. Not so much mine, but that of Sanjay Rath,

Lakshmi

> Kary, Brendan Feeley, and other good people who have been disgraced

by

> someone who hasn't even seen the first Saturn return yet, what to

speak of

> being pottie-trained.

>

> Alright, back to you statements:

>

> >What Dina has stated appear to be

> >statements of facts, i.e. you charging fees for Joytish lessons,

> >Laxmi's ex-husband being convicted for drug and weapon charges,

etc.--

> >If these are not statments of fact, you or Laxmi should rebutt

them.

> >In fact, Sanjay himself has stated that you were charging fees.

>

> Hello? Do you live in this world, or on some other planet? Here

in this

> world, charging a fee for rendering an honorable service, so that

people

> are helped and guided, and so that you can go down to the store and

buy a

> bag of rice and Moong dahl to feed yourself, is not such as

terrible thing,

> is it? Oh, so we should render the highest service, and then beg

from door

> to door to pay for our rent and bills, and then maybe if I'm not

> successful, I will become homeless or have to get a job at

Walmart. What

> nonsense! What age do you live in?

>

> Do you want to know where this whole fee = sin really came from?

In

> by-gone ages in India, the ONLY persons who received astrology

readings

> from the Brahmanas, were the Kings. In turn, the Kings provided a

very

> comfortable life for those astrologer/brahmanas, as it should be.

Thus

> they could teach and counsel without the encumbrances of having to

worry

> about getting money, paying the bills, and feeding their families.

Well,

> in case you haven't noticed, we live in the 21st century America,

there are

> no Kings, everybody can learn astrology, or get an astrology

reading who

> wants one, AND NOBODY IS GOING TO BUY YOUR BAG OF RICE IF YOU DON'T

CHARGE

> A FEE. Ridiculous! Become part of the human race, man. Oh, and

you're so

> pure, that you don't do anything sinful, right? This is what Das

was

> trying to teach everybody. Get off the high-cloud, sanctimonious,

holier

> than thou trip, and get real. Thank you........

>

> About Lakshmi Kary: As far as I understand, you don't know her

either, do

> you? Where all this poignant commentary came in regarding other

people,

> their characters, their past, their values, and this huge big

judgmental

> stamp on who they are, is just an outrage. Where do you live?

Haven't you

> heard that the current evolution of the human race demands that we

let go

> of judgments, and out-dated apostolic style incriminations, and

start being

> a bit merciful? Are you a racist too? Do you hate women?

>

> Anyway, what the hell does Lakshmi Kary, her current values and

dedication,

> her tireless contributions to the spreading of Jyotish and Vedic

dharma,

> have to do with what an ex-husband did over 20 years ago?

>

> You want statements of fact: Well my statement of fact, is that

(1) you or

> Dinanath do not know what you're talking about; (2) neither of you

have the

> balance, the grace, or the decency to see the real work, heart, and

> contributions that Lakshmi or myself are rendering. Instead, you

want to

> sit on that seat of sanctimonious judgment, and by casting down

your

> statements of incrimination, you are indeed weaving the web of your

future

> entanglement as well. Bear this in mind: the fruits of action, are

> invested within the nature and form of the action itself. When you

reach

> that final moment of life, you will think back, and you will see

that his

> whole witch-hunt got you nowhere except another round of birth and

re-birth

> in this world.

>

> >You, however, have used swear words as well as threatened Dina with

> >physical harm.

>

> Oh, the poor little coward. Lets protect him, or find him a new

guardian

> angel and rock to crawl back under. What block did you grow up on,

and

> what school did you go to? Didn't you ever have to call someone

out

> because he disgraced and slimed your dignity? Its a raw,

unfettered, law

> in our side of the gender spectrum, mister. Don't be so lily

white, and

> get real. You'd do the same thing if someone threw your good name

into the

> latrine. Look at American history: Abraham Lincoln had to fight a

dual,

> because he distributed critical and maligning information about a

political

> adversary. That's the way it was in those days. I'm not into

shooting

> guns, but there is a particular law here that you're not getting:

put all

> the purity high-talk crap aside, and a different side of the male

impulse

> emerges.

>

> >Your mail itself goes on to show who's the righteous in this

dispute.

> >Well, Dina was expelled for stating facts on the board, you

however,

> >should be expelled permanently for using profanity and threatening

> >Dina with physical harm.

>

> Do you want to know why Dinanath was expelled? I'll tell you why.

His

> feelings were hurt, because initially Sanjay Rath put him in charge

of

> setting up SJVC in America, yet later was replaced by someone

better and

> more competent as the President, i.e. Brendan Feeley. Dinanath

never got

> over it. He would not work with anyone cooperatively, and then

started

> calling Brendan (who is a scholar and a gentleman of impeccable

character

> and reputation, I might add) names, such as "liar", "deceiver",

etc.

> etc. Verbal terrorism, is the best way I can describe it. We

tried to

> work with Dinanath - we gave him chances to learn how to respect

elders, to

> exercise humility and judgment, but he was blinded by his anger.

Finally,

> the radical step of removing him was the only recourse, and that is

what

> started this whole terrorism campaign to viciously malign me,

Brendan, and

> Laksmi, and now, finally he has defiled his own guru, Sanjay, while

his

> wife sent an email threatening Sanjay. Do you like hearing the

real

> story? Well this is it.

>

> >You post most definitely doesn't reflect that of someone who has

the

> >character and temprament to lead SJVC-USA. I most definitely don't

> >want the CEO of an organization which I'm the member of use

> >profanities and threaten physical harm. You could become a serious

> >legal liability to the organization.

>

> Like I said earlier, I do not like speaking in this tone, and

further, if I

> become angry, it is to defend the dignity and honor of others

mainly, and

> lastly myself. I apologize for entering my humanness, and stepping

out of

> the guru modality. Don't put me in the guru modality, if you don't

think

> I'm can live up to it. Give me break, MD, or whatever your name

is. I

> guarantee you, you will have these moments in your life as well.

>

> Anyway, you seem to be so sensitive about swear words, but, Oh, its

OK to

> malign one's guru, to hi-jack his organization's web site, to

defile and

> disgrace a lady in public, to send out false, incriminating, and

misleading

> information on the Internet, and start a fire-war that brings out

the worst

> in people. That's OK, right, but we're naughty for using a swear

word when

> the exclamation point fails to satisfy!

>

> >I don't know you or Dina or Sanjay personally or professionally.

I'm

> >just an SJVC-USA member watching this drama. The reason I mention

> >this is because I want others on the board to know that I'm

> >completely impartial in posting my thoughts.

>

> You don't know us, bring forth a completely dogmatic and rigid

point of

> view, and now you're telling me that you're "completely

impartial"? I

> think I'd like to know you, MD, as I sense that under it all,

you're

> basically a nice guy. But before that can happen, why don't you

come out

> of the stone age and get real.

>

> Robert

>

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

> visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

> http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

> Ph: 541.318.0248

[Guest guest]

OK, monmuk11, MD, or whatever your name is. Why don't you tell us

your name?

At 12:03 AM 10/4/02 +0000, you wrote:

Robert:

1) You haven't read my other posts. I'm all for charging fees and

selling software and books for royalties. The statement I quoted from

Dina' mail relates to SJVC's policy of Gurus not charging fees and

you were acting contrary to that and Dina was alleging this

shorcoming of your and Sanjay acquisensed.

That principle was up for debate, and how it could be implemented in the

USA and western culture, i.e. current times (not ancient India of Kings

and Sages), is what I am and was trying to promote. This takes some

time, but you will see, that SJVC too becomes more realistic about how

the continuum of ancient dharmas can be implemented in modern

times. Awareness of and sensitivity to Desa, Kaal, and

Patra, that is changing time, place, and circumstances, are the real

underpinnings of how universal or eternal truths, can be taught in modern

times. Why stick to the dogma of old principles, when its the its

the spirit of the principle that matters. The truth is, that

if I have to get a job because I can't pay my bills because of teaching

my 40 + students without a fee, then I will not be doing too much

teaching of Jyotish after that, will I? Does the dharma and the

knowledge get spread by my doing that, or do we take the bones of old

rules to our graves? I am in the position I am in, because my

vision is progressive and dynamic, and wish to make this knowledge

available to the greater masses, and not just a limited few.

Without embracing a new paradigm for how the mission shall be spread, we

just become old men real fast. Is that what you want?

2) As to swearing, I'm not sitting here on my

high moral horse

pontificating about how bad is using profanity, I use profanity too.

Howeve, I definitely don't use profanity in presence of people who

work for me (even in presence of men who work for me). As a leader in

my company, I'm required to maintain a certain attiquete and as a

top-

leader in SJVC-USA, you're required to maintain that attiquite even

more.

Oh, that's all very nice and lovely, Mr. MD. But what if one of

your employees calls your wife a whore, and tells 90 million people on

the Internet. false and misleading lies about you? Well, if you do

not swear then, you are more of a saint than me! Further, don't

tell me what I'm required to do. I reserve the right to a little

bit of creative license when the moment provokes it, OK? Like I

said before, don't put me in the casket of a guru title, if that means

taking away my humanity. I wouldn't do that to you, so don't do it

to me.

3) As to Laxmi, I asked her to rebutt Dina's

allegation on the board

as well as privately. If she doesn't respond and Dina continues to

post candid, tranparent statements, who am I to

believe?

If you don't have the information at hand, then why did you take

sides? Further, if there were ever a question that the dignity of a

lady might be maligned, why don't you just keep your silence until she

wishes to defend yourself? Basic manners - learn them.

Yes, Dina does come across as a "poor

little child" who's been hurt

and therefore I'm pleading in his favor as you guys have not

justified in any way shape of form the reason to accuse Dina of

hijacking this and that and later bombard the board with "how bad is

Dina" postings. Sanjay even took help of Dina's chart to plead on

the

board as to how and why is Dina a bad person.

Hello? I just sent out a paragraph or two explaining the whole

story, and so did Lakshmi. Maybe you're s little tired, and aren't

paying attention. Go back and read the messages, and pay attention

this time.

Robert, you fired the first shot that began

this debate, you find out

a way to end it.

I did no such thing. Das posted an inquiry, as to why he had

received this shocking and confusing email that saying that Robert was

ousted from SJVC. I replied, and explained the whole story long

ago. I don't see how that's "firing the first

shot". What are you talking about? DN hi-jacked

Sanjay's web site, posted a false statement there about supposedly my

being ousted, when it was he who was ousted, to wit, by me, in

consultation with Sanjay. Then, he started sending out emails

stating the same, as if it were Sanjay or some SJVC officer doing

it? Don't you see the travesty? What a sham........And the

amazing thing is, that apparently intelligence persons like yourself are

swallowing the whole thing.

Well, now I'm getting tired of this whole pissing-match. I'm out of

here -- good-bye,

Robert

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

visit

<http://www.robertkoch.com>

and,

http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com

or

Ph: 541.318.0248

[Guest guest]

Robert:

 

Is Laxmi your wife? Ya, I've read derogatory remarks about Laxmi in

Dina's post, but nothing about your wife? Maybe I missed it, if Dina

called your wife a whore than you have every right to say whatever

comes to your mind. If this is the case (Dina calling making

derogatory remarks about your wife), than I excuse you for your

profanity and so should others on the board.

 

MD ( I posted a comprehensive e-mail about my name, background, etc.

earlier today so you can get that info. from that mail)

 

gjlist, "Robert A. Koch" <rk@r...> wrote:

> OK, monmuk11, MD, or whatever your name is. Why don't you tell us

your name?

>

> At 12:03 AM 10/4/02 +0000, you wrote:

> >Robert:

> >

> >1) You haven't read my other posts. I'm all for charging fees and

> >selling software and books for royalties. The statement I quoted

from

> >Dina' mail relates to SJVC's policy of Gurus not charging fees and

> >you were acting contrary to that and Dina was alleging this

> >shorcoming of your and Sanjay acquisensed.

>

> That principle was up for debate, and how it could be implemented

in the

> USA and western culture, i.e. current times (not ancient India of

Kings and

> Sages), is what I am and was trying to promote. This takes some

time, but

> you will see, that SJVC too becomes more realistic about how the

continuum

> of ancient dharmas can be implemented in modern times. Awareness

of and

> sensitivity to Desa, Kaal, and Patra, that is changing time, place,

and

> circumstances, are the real underpinnings of how universal or

eternal

> truths, can be taught in modern times. Why stick to the dogma of

old

> principles, when its the its the spirit of the principle that

matters. The

> truth is, that if I have to get a job because I can't pay my bills

because

> of teaching my 40 + students without a fee, then I will not be

doing too

> much teaching of Jyotish after that, will I? Does the dharma and

the

> knowledge get spread by my doing that, or do we take the bones of

old rules

> to our graves? I am in the position I am in, because my vision is

> progressive and dynamic, and wish to make this knowledge available

to the

> greater masses, and not just a limited few. Without embracing a

new

> paradigm for how the mission shall be spread, we just become old

men real

> fast. Is that what you want?

>

> >2) As to swearing, I'm not sitting here on my high moral horse

> >pontificating about how bad is using profanity, I use profanity

too.

> >Howeve, I definitely don't use profanity in presence of people who

> >work for me (even in presence of men who work for me). As a leader

in

> >my company, I'm required to maintain a certain attiquete and as a

top-

> >leader in SJVC-USA, you're required to maintain that attiquite even

> >more.

>

> Oh, that's all very nice and lovely, Mr. MD. But what if one of

your

> employees calls your wife a whore, and tells 90 million people on

the

> Internet. false and misleading lies about you? Well, if you do not

swear

> then, you are more of a saint than me! Further, don't tell me what

I'm

> required to do. I reserve the right to a little bit of creative

license

> when the moment provokes it, OK? Like I said before, don't put me

in the

> casket of a guru title, if that means taking away my humanity. I

wouldn't

> do that to you, so don't do it to me.

>

> >3) As to Laxmi, I asked her to rebutt Dina's allegation on the

board

> >as well as privately. If she doesn't respond and Dina continues to

> >post candid, tranparent statements, who am I to believe?

>

> If you don't have the information at hand, then why did you take

> sides? Further, if there were ever a question that the dignity of

a lady

> might be maligned, why don't you just keep your silence until she

wishes to

> defend yourself? Basic manners - learn them.

>

> >Yes, Dina does come across as a "poor little child" who's been hurt

> >and therefore I'm pleading in his favor as you guys have not

> >justified in any way shape of form the reason to accuse Dina of

> >hijacking this and that and later bombard the board with "how bad

is

> >Dina" postings. Sanjay even took help of Dina's chart to plead on

the

> >board as to how and why is Dina a bad person.

>

> Hello? I just sent out a paragraph or two explaining the whole

story, and

> so did Lakshmi. Maybe you're s little tired, and aren't paying

> attention. Go back and read the messages, and pay attention this

time.

>

> >Robert, you fired the first shot that began this debate, you find

out

> >a way to end it.

>

> I did no such thing. Das posted an inquiry, as to why he had

received this

> shocking and confusing email that saying that Robert was ousted

from

> SJVC. I replied, and explained the whole story long ago. I don't

see how

> that's "firing the first shot". What are you talking about? DN

hi-jacked

> Sanjay's web site, posted a false statement there about supposedly

my being

> ousted, when it was he who was ousted, to wit, by me, in

consultation with

> Sanjay. Then, he started sending out emails stating the same, as

if it

> were Sanjay or some SJVC officer doing it? Don't you see the

> travesty? What a sham........And the amazing thing is, that

apparently

> intelligence persons like yourself are swallowing the whole thing.

>

> Well, now I'm getting tired of this whole pissing-match. I'm out

of here

> -- good-bye,

> Robert

>

>

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer

> Faculty Member, SJVC and ACVA

> visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and,

> http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or

> Ph: 541.318.0248