Please Use Astrology Positively (curses, sins, condemnations)

[Guest guest]

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

Dear all,

 

 

I hardly post here and hence most of you may not have heard of me.

Those who visit some other lists, may know me. Does not really matter

because it is not going to matter much as far as the contents of this

post are concerned. At the outset let me clarify that I AM NOT TAKING

ANYONE'S SIDE or getting involved in what SHOULD HAVE BEEN an

internal matter of an organization. I respect all, from the novice to

the adept. And I love anyone who does any good work to make this

world a better place, or spreads the Light. I am going to restrict

myself to a few general observations and comments.

 

 

1. We cannot be judgmental about others just because they don't

fit into our definition of so called `purity', or `spiritual values'.

Such things are relative and partly based on conditioning and

individual choices. Drinking, smoking, eating meat are not the

yardsticks to measure a person's level of thinking or spirituality.

Good if someone is a vegetarian or refrains from alcohol etc. Just

because I don't smoke or drink, doesn't make me a wee bit superior to

anyone. If vegetarian diet is what is the ultimate yardstick, a

monkey should be the greatest Yogi, or an elephant! Swami Vivekananda

ate beef when he was in the US, and meat when he was in India. That

does not reduce his greatness or the relevance of his message. But

that need not be taken as an approval either!

 

 

2. It is not uncommon to meet Indians (or even from other

nationalities) who are judgmental about certain things (all external

stuff which need not necessarily reflect the internal state). All

ideas of a particular country or religion or group being great, are

our own misconceptions that reflect our lack of exposure to life and

people, and our own narrow tunnel headed vision of life. Let's accept

one thing. WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS! No one is a god or holier than

others. I have met enough good people everywhere and from all

countries. No one religion or country has a SECRET formula to Moksha

or the Truth. Like JK said, "Truth is a pathless land". No religion

or church or group or path can claim it exclusively.

 

 

3. Our own perceptions keep changing from time to time. And if

someone is fixed, all it means is that he is stagnating. Life is a

flux, where we constantly keep learning. What I am sure of this

moment, cannot be definite for ever. So where does the idea of one

being a GURU arise at all? I beg your pardon but the whole idea of

Gurudom is an egocentric game. What matters is not the human gurus,

but Guru Tattwa. And that Guru Tattwa, that SPIRIT keeps manifesting

through everything all the time. Being open to this continuous

learning process is what matters really. In reality we are all

seekers. If someone knows it all, what is he doing here? So we cannot

take anyone as infallible. True and genuine gurus are RARE. In fact I

personally believe that the term Guru is applicable only to those

rare exalted spiritual souls who can guide us truly, not to others

who are groping as much as anyone else. In areas like Jyotish, Yoga,

Philisophy, the term used for someone who teaches a student is an

ACHARYA. If someone is hell bent on using the word Guru loosely, so

be it. Call your teacher a Siksha guru, with the stress on SIKSHA,

not on Gurudom.

 

 

4. Let there be no illusions about big money in Astrology. No

astrologer makes big money really. This is one of the most

frustrating fields (east or west) as far as money is concerned. A few

have made name, fame or money not because of astrology, but because

of their individual talents and good PR skills. Those who are good at

programming, or creating concepts, or writing seem to have done

fairly well. But as I said it is largely because of their individual

talents, skills and efforts. They would have made it anyway in some

area. So forget some Big money being involved in astrology. Sorry

folks, those looking for such avenues are better off spending their

time elsewhere.

 

 

5. There is nothing wrong if someone chooses to charge for a

reading. It is his personal choice. You don't like it? Just don't go

to him. At the same time don't create a big scene about spiritual

values being lost. What do you expect the poor astrologer to live on?

Air or ether? I am not a professional astrologer. I did readings as a

part time thing when I initially came to Australia for my Masters. I

needed to do some work and decided on that because that was one thing

that I knew well and enjoyed doing. And to me one should be able to

enjoy his work or take up work that he enjoys. Yet I was very

liberal, did free readings too, etc even then. Today I don't need to

anyway because my business and medical backgrounds give me far better

avenues. Yet occasionally I still do readings freely when I find

time. If someone does astrology professionally let it be. It may at

least bring some responsibility and professional attitude hopefully

(?). And if someone likes to do it as a service, let it too be. One

just cannot be judgmental about these matters. Well it is my personal

choice that I do not wish to take money for any lesson or reading, if

at all I do. Probably because my stomach is full! You talk of

astrology being introduced as a full-fledged subject in the

Universities. So what do you expect those graduates and PHDS to do

when they come out? Do free service? Beg? Or live at someone else's

mercy? If that is the case, no one will eventually take astrology as

an option in the university. You don't have a problem if I charge you

a couple of hundred dollars for a medical service. Then why expect

the poor astrologer to do free service and die of hunger! For that

matter Ayurveda (the Vedic counter part of Medicine) is also an

Upaveda, while Jyotish is a Vedanga. Move with the times. How

judgmental and hypocritical can we be?

 

 

6. As for judgments based on someone's chart, it is highly

unethical to do that. To the best of my knowledge (and I have been

with some good traditional astrologers in both South and North India,

as well as in many spiritual centers and ashrams), it is not common

for curses in someone's chart being discussed openly. Since someone

claimed that it was perfectly normal in the Indian setting to do so,

I am speaking. NO it is not at all common or considered right in my

opinion. And most importantly astrology is not meant for such things.

It has far better purposes.

 

 

7. There are two ways of doing astrology, like anything else.

Positive or negative. We are here to help people, to give them hope,

to counsel them, guide them, to inspire them to be happy and

peaceful, not to condemn, criticize, or pull down anyone's

confidence. For that matter any student or teacher with enough

experience knows that astrology is quite SUBTLE and the manifestation

of every astrological combination varied in each chart. The best of

us could be right 70 to 80%. So how can anyone pronounce with

certainty anything about past life and such things, which cannot be

proved? And if understanding the roots of a problem is our main

concern, if seeking the resolution for a negative karmic pattern, is

the main motive, there are better ways in which this can be done.

Those who are familiar with psychology know how such pronouncements

can affect a person. This is negative astrology. Anything that is

restricting or binding cannot be good or healthy in the long run,

whether it is a relationship or an astrological reading. Truth

liberates. It sets us FREE. One should prove by predicting on the

HERE and NOW.

 

 

To me astrology is just a TOOL, a MEANS, not the end. It gives us a

method to understand a person's mind, karmic patterns and mental

complexes. Our life events are a result of our karmas both previous

and current and the natal chart helps to identify the predominant

karmic patterns- our prarabdha. There are many psychological and

spiritual forces at work at any given point of time, some of which

are conflicting. Even our various thoughts, desires and motives are

often conflicting. Are they not? Life is often quite complex with its

myriad colors, expressions and attractions. The natal chart is a

reflection of those myriad influences. SHOW ME ONE CHART THAT IS

ABSOLUTELY IDEAL. No, the ideal or `perfect' simply does not exist!

Since all charts are a mixture of positive and negative factors

(karmas), the focus should be not on the `SINS' and `CURSES', but on

a positive resolution of those mental complexes. Negative

pronouncements serve no purpose. They may even strengthen the deep-

rooted complexes, if they are truly a reflection of a karmic pattern.

 

 

Talking of sins and curses and too many mantras is not a good idea.

Any remedial measure should aim at a change of consciousness, which

is at the root of the repeated karmic patterns. What is the use of

feeding crows and penances, when one remains petty minded and

arrogant? All knowledge is only to make life better, not to depress a

person. I strongly object to the use of astrology to condemn,

criticize, or assassinate someone's character. Assimilation and

Harmony, not Condemnation and Criticism! Long ago we had fought each

other with stones, then simple tools, then bows and arrows, guns,

planes, nuclear weapons, and now ASTROLOGY! I request all not to

reduce astrology to one more WEAPON TO FIGHT. Please let astrology be

what it is really- THE BEST OF LIGHTS (Jyoti: Light; Ish: Lord or

Best). Let the Light of Knowledge remove the darkness of ignorance.

Let it show the way to Wholeness, Love and Peace.

 

 

LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL,

 

Satya

 

Note: This is a request and general message to all, not aimed at

anyone. Please move on guys, and don't dwell too much on the past.

There is a wonderful poem by the great poet Kalidasa in Sanskrit,

which I am typing below for all.

 

 

Listen to the Exhortation of the Dawn!

Look to this Day!

For it is Life,

The very Life of Life.

In its brief course lie all

The verities and realities

Of your Existence;

The Bliss of Growth,

The Glory of Action,

The Splendor of Beauty;

For Yesterday is but a Dream,

And Tomorrow is only a Vision;

But Today well lived makes every

Yesterday a Dream of Happiness,

And every Tomorrow

A Vision of Hope.

Look well therefore to this Day!

Such is the Salutation of the Dawn....

[Guest guest]

A most auspicious post; wonderful. Thank you.

Just remember that the manic fundamentalism that sometimes rears its benighted

head on this list may react disastrously to the panychaakshara mantra at the

opening of your letter! This element does not know Lord Shiva and feels

threatened by his brilliance and outrageousness. One day such fundamentalism by

necessity will encounter the inspired from of Harihareshvara (Lords Vishnu and

Shiva in one body) and something may happen. In the meantime, the

panychaakshara mantra will do just fine -- let us have more of it on this list!

 

May the demon of religious bigotry that possesses a few of our fine but

susceptible list members prove that it really values the Jyotish work of such

Shaivite astro-practitioners as de Fouw and Svoboda. Or is the latter pair's

jyotish merely accepted begrudgingly for political reasons because the

bigotry-demon knows these fine writers have gained seats of authority?

Just a wee thought! But let it be known: usually love is gentle, generous,

supportive and uplifting. And sometimes it is wrathful. This spectrum is good,

sacred, human.

Thanks again for your needed message.

Sincerely,

J. I. Abbot

Baby Bodhisattva-Jyotishi

In a message dated 10/4/2002 2:21:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, satyaprakasika (AT) (DOT) co.uk writes:

Aum Namah Shivaya

Dear all,

I hardly post here and hence most of you may not have heard of me.

Those who visit some other lists, may know me. Does not really matter

because it is not going to matter much as far as the contents of this

post are concerned. At the outset let me clarify that I AM NOT TAKING

ANYONE'S SIDE or getting involved in what SHOULD HAVE BEEN an

internal matter of an organization. I respect all, from the novice to

the adept. And I love anyone who does any good work to make this

world a better place, or spreads the Light. I am going to restrict

myself to a few general observations and comments.

1. We cannot be judgmental about others just because they don't

fit into our definition of so called `purity', or `spiritual values'.

Such things are relative and partly based on conditioning and

individual choices. Drinking, smoking, eating meat are not the

yardsticks to measure a person's level of thinking or spirituality.

Good if someone is a vegetarian or refrains from alcohol etc. Just

because I don't smoke or drink, doesn't make me a wee bit superior to

anyone. If vegetarian diet is what is the ultimate yardstick, a

monkey should be the greatest Yogi, or an elephant! Swami Vivekananda

ate beef when he was in the US, and meat when he was in India. That

does not reduce his greatness or the relevance of his message. But

that need not be taken as an approval either!

2. It is not uncommon to meet Indians (or even from other

nationalities) who are judgmental about certain things (all external

stuff which need not necessarily reflect the internal state). All

ideas of a particular country or religion or group being great, are

our own misconceptions that reflect our lack of exposure to life and

people, and our own narrow tunnel headed vision of life. Let's accept

one thing. WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS! No one is a god or holier than

others. I have met enough good people everywhere and from all

countries. No one religion or country has a SECRET formula to Moksha

or the Truth. Like JK said, "Truth is a pathless land". No religion

or church or group or path can claim it exclusively.

3. Our own perceptions keep changing from time to time. And if

someone is fixed, all it means is that he is stagnating. Life is a

flux, where we constantly keep learning. What I am sure of this

moment, cannot be definite for ever. So where does the idea of one

being a GURU arise at all? I beg your pardon but the whole idea of

Gurudom is an egocentric game. What matters is not the human gurus,

but Guru Tattwa. And that Guru Tattwa, that SPIRIT keeps manifesting

through everything all the time. Being open to this continuous

learning process is what matters really. In reality we are all

seekers. If someone knows it all, what is he doing here? So we cannot

take anyone as infallible. True and genuine gurus are RARE. In fact I

personally believe that the term Guru is applicable only to those

rare exalted spiritual souls who can guide us truly, not to others

who are groping as much as anyone else. In areas like Jyotish, Yoga,

Philisophy, the term used for someone who teaches a student is an

ACHARYA. If someone is hell bent on using the word Guru loosely, so

be it. Call your teacher a Siksha guru, with the stress on SIKSHA,

not on Gurudom.

4. Let there be no illusions about big money in Astrology. No

astrologer makes big money really. This is one of the most

frustrating fields (east or west) as far as money is concerned. A few

have made name, fame or money not because of astrology, but because

of their individual talents and good PR skills. Those who are good at

programming, or creating concepts, or writing seem to have done

fairly well. But as I said it is largely because of their individual

talents, skills and efforts. They would have made it anyway in some

area. So forget some Big money being involved in astrology. Sorry

folks, those looking for such avenues are better off spending their

time elsewhere.

5. There is nothing wrong if someone chooses to charge for a

reading. It is his personal choice. You don't like it? Just don't go

to him. At the same time don't create a big scene about spiritual

values being lost. What do you expect the poor astrologer to live on?

Air or ether? I am not a professional astrologer. I did readings as a

part time thing when I initially came to Australia for my Masters. I

needed to do some work and decided on that because that was one thing

that I knew well and enjoyed doing. And to me one should be able to

enjoy his work or take up work that he enjoys. Yet I was very

liberal, did free readings too, etc even then. Today I don't need to

anyway because my business and medical backgrounds give me far better

avenues. Yet occasionally I still do readings freely when I find

time. If someone does astrology professionally let it be. It may at

least bring some responsibility and professional attitude hopefully

(?). And if someone likes to do it as a service, let it too be. One

just cannot be judgmental about these matters. Well it is my personal

choice that I do not wish to take money for any lesson or reading, if

at all I do. Probably because my stomach is full! You talk of

astrology being introduced as a full-fledged subject in the

Universities. So what do you expect those graduates and PHDS to do

when they come out? Do free service? Beg? Or live at someone else's

mercy? If that is the case, no one will eventually take astrology as

an option in the university. You don't have a problem if I charge you

a couple of hundred dollars for a medical service. Then why expect

the poor astrologer to do free service and die of hunger! For that

matter Ayurveda (the Vedic counter part of Medicine) is also an

Upaveda, while Jyotish is a Vedanga. Move with the times. How

judgmental and hypocritical can we be?

6. As for judgments based on someone's chart, it is highly

unethical to do that. To the best of my knowledge (and I have been

with some good traditional astrologers in both South and North India,

as well as in many spiritual centers and ashrams), it is not common

for curses in someone's chart being discussed openly. Since someone

claimed that it was perfectly normal in the Indian setting to do so,

I am speaking. NO it is not at all common or considered right in my

opinion. And most importantly astrology is not meant for such things.

It has far better purposes.

7. There are two ways of doing astrology, like anything else.

Positive or negative. We are here to help people, to give them hope,

to counsel them, guide them, to inspire them to be happy and

peaceful, not to condemn, criticize, or pull down anyone's

confidence. For that matter any student or teacher with enough

experience knows that astrology is quite SUBTLE and the manifestation

of every astrological combination varied in each chart. The best of

us could be right 70 to 80%. So how can anyone pronounce with

certainty anything about past life and such things, which cannot be

proved? And if understanding the roots of a problem is our main

concern, if seeking the resolution for a negative karmic pattern, is

the main motive, there are better ways in which this can be done.

Those who are familiar with psychology know how such pronouncements

can affect a person. This is negative astrology. Anything that is

restricting or binding cannot be good or healthy in the long run,

whether it is a relationship or an astrological reading. Truth

liberates. It sets us FREE. One should prove by predicting on the

HERE and NOW.

To me astrology is just a TOOL, a MEANS, not the end. It gives us a

method to understand a person's mind, karmic patterns and mental

complexes. Our life events are a result of our karmas both previous

and current and the natal chart helps to identify the predominant

karmic patterns- our prarabdha. There are many psychological and

spiritual forces at work at any given point of time, some of which

are conflicting. Even our various thoughts, desires and motives are

often conflicting. Are they not? Life is often quite complex with its

myriad colors, expressions and attractions. The natal chart is a

reflection of those myriad influences. SHOW ME ONE CHART THAT IS

ABSOLUTELY IDEAL. No, the ideal or `perfect' simply does not exist!

Since all charts are a mixture of positive and negative factors

(karmas), the focus should be not on the `SINS' and `CURSES', but on

a positive resolution of those mental complexes. Negative

pronouncements serve no purpose. They may even strengthen the deep-

rooted complexes, if they are truly a reflection of a karmic pattern.

Talking of sins and curses and too many mantras is not a good idea.

Any remedial measure should aim at a change of consciousness, which

is at the root of the repeated karmic patterns. What is the use of

feeding crows and penances, when one remains petty minded and

arrogant? All knowledge is only to make life better, not to depress a

person. I strongly object to the use of astrology to condemn,

criticize, or assassinate someone's character. Assimilation and

Harmony, not Condemnation and Criticism! Long ago we had fought each

other with stones, then simple tools, then bows and arrows, guns,

planes, nuclear weapons, and now ASTROLOGY! I request all not to

reduce astrology to one more WEAPON TO FIGHT. Please let astrology be

what it is really- THE BEST OF LIGHTS (Jyoti: Light; Ish: Lord or

Best). Let the Light of Knowledge remove the darkness of ignorance.

Let it show the way to Wholeness, Love and Peace.

LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL,

Satya

Note: This is a request and general message to all, not aimed at

anyone. Please move on guys, and don't dwell too much on the past.

There is a wonderful poem by the great poet Kalidasa in Sanskrit,

which I am typing below for all.

Listen to the Exhortation of the Dawn!

Look to this Day!

For it is Life,

The very Life of Life.

In its brief course lie all

The verities and realities

Of your Existence;

The Bliss of Growth,

The Glory of Action,

The Splendor of Beauty;

For Yesterday is but a Dream,

And Tomorrow is only a Vision;

But Today well lived makes every

Yesterday a Dream of Happiness,

And every Tomorrow

A Vision of Hope.

Look well therefore to this Day!

Such is the Salutation of the Dawn....

[Guest guest]

gjlist, "Dr Satya Prakash Choudhary"

<satyaprakasika> wrote:

> Aum Namah Shivaya

>

> Dear all,

>

>

> I hardly post here and hence most of you may not have heard of me.

> Those who visit some other lists, may know me. Does not really

matter

> because it is not going to matter much as far as the contents of

this

> post are concerned. At the outset let me clarify that I AM NOT

TAKING

> ANYONE'S SIDE or getting involved in what SHOULD HAVE BEEN an

> internal matter of an organization. I respect all, from the novice

to

> the adept. And I love anyone who does any good work to make this

> world a better place, or spreads the Light. I am going to restrict

> myself to a few general observations and comments.

>

>

> 1. We cannot be judgmental about others just because they don't

> fit into our definition of so called `purity', or `spiritual

values'.

> Such things are relative and partly based on conditioning and

> individual choices. Drinking, smoking, eating meat are not the

> yardsticks to measure a person's level of thinking or spirituality.

> Good if someone is a vegetarian or refrains from alcohol etc. Just

> because I don't smoke or drink, doesn't make me a wee bit superior

to

> anyone. If vegetarian diet is what is the ultimate yardstick, a

> monkey should be the greatest Yogi, or an elephant! Swami

Vivekananda

> ate beef when he was in the US, and meat when he was in India. That

> does not reduce his greatness or the relevance of his message. But

> that need not be taken as an approval either!

>

>

> 2. It is not uncommon to meet Indians (or even from other

> nationalities) who are judgmental about certain things (all

external

> stuff which need not necessarily reflect the internal state). All

> ideas of a particular country or religion or group being great, are

> our own misconceptions that reflect our lack of exposure to life

and

> people, and our own narrow tunnel headed vision of life. Let's

accept

> one thing. WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS! No one is a god or holier than

> others. I have met enough good people everywhere and from all

> countries. No one religion or country has a SECRET formula to

Moksha

> or the Truth. Like JK said, "Truth is a pathless land". No religion

> or church or group or path can claim it exclusively.

>

>

> 3. Our own perceptions keep changing from time to time. And if

> someone is fixed, all it means is that he is stagnating. Life is a

> flux, where we constantly keep learning. What I am sure of this

> moment, cannot be definite for ever. So where does the idea of one

> being a GURU arise at all? I beg your pardon but the whole idea of

> Gurudom is an egocentric game. What matters is not the human gurus,

> but Guru Tattwa. And that Guru Tattwa, that SPIRIT keeps

manifesting

> through everything all the time. Being open to this continuous

> learning process is what matters really. In reality we are all

> seekers. If someone knows it all, what is he doing here? So we

cannot

> take anyone as infallible. True and genuine gurus are RARE. In fact

I

> personally believe that the term Guru is applicable only to those

> rare exalted spiritual souls who can guide us truly, not to others

> who are groping as much as anyone else. In areas like Jyotish,

Yoga,

> Philisophy, the term used for someone who teaches a student is an

> ACHARYA. If someone is hell bent on using the word Guru loosely, so

> be it. Call your teacher a Siksha guru, with the stress on SIKSHA,

> not on Gurudom.

>

>

> 4. Let there be no illusions about big money in Astrology. No

> astrologer makes big money really. This is one of the most

> frustrating fields (east or west) as far as money is concerned. A

few

> have made name, fame or money not because of astrology, but because

> of their individual talents and good PR skills. Those who are good

at

> programming, or creating concepts, or writing seem to have done

> fairly well. But as I said it is largely because of their

individual

> talents, skills and efforts. They would have made it anyway in some

> area. So forget some Big money being involved in astrology. Sorry

> folks, those looking for such avenues are better off spending their

> time elsewhere.

>

>

> 5. There is nothing wrong if someone chooses to charge for a

> reading. It is his personal choice. You don't like it? Just don't

go

> to him. At the same time don't create a big scene about spiritual

> values being lost. What do you expect the poor astrologer to live

on?

> Air or ether? I am not a professional astrologer. I did readings as

a

> part time thing when I initially came to Australia for my Masters.

I

> needed to do some work and decided on that because that was one

thing

> that I knew well and enjoyed doing. And to me one should be able to

> enjoy his work or take up work that he enjoys. Yet I was very

> liberal, did free readings too, etc even then. Today I don't need

to

> anyway because my business and medical backgrounds give me far

better

> avenues. Yet occasionally I still do readings freely when I find

> time. If someone does astrology professionally let it be. It may at

> least bring some responsibility and professional attitude hopefully

> (?). And if someone likes to do it as a service, let it too be. One

> just cannot be judgmental about these matters. Well it is my

personal

> choice that I do not wish to take money for any lesson or reading,

if

> at all I do. Probably because my stomach is full! You talk of

> astrology being introduced as a full-fledged subject in the

> Universities. So what do you expect those graduates and PHDS to do

> when they come out? Do free service? Beg? Or live at someone else's

> mercy? If that is the case, no one will eventually take astrology

as

> an option in the university. You don't have a problem if I charge

you

> a couple of hundred dollars for a medical service. Then why expect

> the poor astrologer to do free service and die of hunger! For that

> matter Ayurveda (the Vedic counter part of Medicine) is also an

> Upaveda, while Jyotish is a Vedanga. Move with the times. How

> judgmental and hypocritical can we be?

>

>

> 6. As for judgments based on someone's chart, it is highly

> unethical to do that. To the best of my knowledge (and I have been

> with some good traditional astrologers in both South and North

India,

> as well as in many spiritual centers and ashrams), it is not common

> for curses in someone's chart being discussed openly. Since someone

> claimed that it was perfectly normal in the Indian setting to do

so,

> I am speaking. NO it is not at all common or considered right in my

> opinion. And most importantly astrology is not meant for such

things.

> It has far better purposes.

>

>

> 7. There are two ways of doing astrology, like anything else.

> Positive or negative. We are here to help people, to give them

hope,

> to counsel them, guide them, to inspire them to be happy and

> peaceful, not to condemn, criticize, or pull down anyone's

> confidence. For that matter any student or teacher with enough

> experience knows that astrology is quite SUBTLE and the

manifestation

> of every astrological combination varied in each chart. The best of

> us could be right 70 to 80%. So how can anyone pronounce with

> certainty anything about past life and such things, which cannot be

> proved? And if understanding the roots of a problem is our main

> concern, if seeking the resolution for a negative karmic pattern,

is

> the main motive, there are better ways in which this can be done.

> Those who are familiar with psychology know how such pronouncements

> can affect a person. This is negative astrology. Anything that is

> restricting or binding cannot be good or healthy in the long run,

> whether it is a relationship or an astrological reading. Truth

> liberates. It sets us FREE. One should prove by predicting on the

> HERE and NOW.

>

>

> To me astrology is just a TOOL, a MEANS, not the end. It gives us a

> method to understand a person's mind, karmic patterns and mental

> complexes. Our life events are a result of our karmas both previous

> and current and the natal chart helps to identify the predominant

> karmic patterns- our prarabdha. There are many psychological and

> spiritual forces at work at any given point of time, some of which

> are conflicting. Even our various thoughts, desires and motives are

> often conflicting. Are they not? Life is often quite complex with

its

> myriad colors, expressions and attractions. The natal chart is a

> reflection of those myriad influences. SHOW ME ONE CHART THAT IS

> ABSOLUTELY IDEAL. No, the ideal or `perfect' simply does not exist!

> Since all charts are a mixture of positive and negative factors

> (karmas), the focus should be not on the `SINS' and `CURSES', but

on

> a positive resolution of those mental complexes. Negative

> pronouncements serve no purpose. They may even strengthen the deep-

> rooted complexes, if they are truly a reflection of a karmic

pattern.

>

>

> Talking of sins and curses and too many mantras is not a good idea.

> Any remedial measure should aim at a change of consciousness, which

> is at the root of the repeated karmic patterns. What is the use of

> feeding crows and penances, when one remains petty minded and

> arrogant? All knowledge is only to make life better, not to depress

a

> person. I strongly object to the use of astrology to condemn,

> criticize, or assassinate someone's character. Assimilation and

> Harmony, not Condemnation and Criticism! Long ago we had fought

each

> other with stones, then simple tools, then bows and arrows, guns,

> planes, nuclear weapons, and now ASTROLOGY! I request all not to

> reduce astrology to one more WEAPON TO FIGHT. Please let astrology

be

> what it is really- THE BEST OF LIGHTS (Jyoti: Light; Ish: Lord or

> Best). Let the Light of Knowledge remove the darkness of ignorance.

> Let it show the way to Wholeness, Love and Peace.

>

>

> LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL,

>

> Satya

>

> Note: This is a request and general message to all, not aimed at

> anyone. Please move on guys, and don't dwell too much on the past.

> There is a wonderful poem by the great poet Kalidasa in Sanskrit,

> which I am typing below for all.

>

>

> Listen to the Exhortation of the Dawn!

> Look to this Day!

> For it is Life,

> The very Life of Life.

> In its brief course lie all

> The verities and realities

> Of your Existence;

> The Bliss of Growth,

> The Glory of Action,

> The Splendor of Beauty;

> For Yesterday is but a Dream,

> And Tomorrow is only a Vision;

> But Today well lived makes every

> Yesterday a Dream of Happiness,

> And every Tomorrow

> A Vision of Hope.

> Look well therefore to this Day!

> Such is the Salutation of the Dawn....

[Guest guest]

gjlist, "Dr Satya Prakash Choudhary"

<satyaprakasika> wrote:

> Aum Namah Shivaya

>

Dear Satya Ji

Namaste.

I have a simple question..were the scriptures wrong in PUBLISHING

FOR PERPETUITY the CURSE in the HOROSCOPE of BHAGAVAN SRI RAM? Try to

answer this as it alone shall decide what is right and what is wrong

in the Indian context..

Secondly, please read the whole message and advise in the

bottom "stop fighting ansd start chanting"..is this also wrong? Why

do people pick up small portions and draw their conclusions..

Finally, I too have the curse of Guru from my last birth and have

to do HIS WORK in this birth. This is a Jyotish forum and if we

cannot or will not discuss Jyotish, what else should we be doing?

Kindly advise. I am not ashamed that I have a Curse, and instead

realise that I have to do the Guru's work in this birth. The fact

that Bhagavan has given me a chance to do so in a Human body is my

good fortune.

Sorry, I haven't been taught to counsel and cannot do that. I have

learnt Jyotish and this what I can do. There are a lot of astrologers

who use the Tropical chart and are very good at counselling as these

are the ways of a land where they have seen a lot of tough

times..they need the healing. In India it is the opportunity for the

highest path, so why should we compromise for less? Many may not

agree with me here, but then this is what I believe.

Please guide me as to where am I wrong if I show someone that this

incident is probably due to a curse in his past life and that he

should do some chanting of the Mahamantra. Others are misguiding him.

He is well aware of the Narayana dasa and that the Iccha (desire) of

a person is seen from the 7th house from the Narayana dasa rasi. He

has the Sun in gandanta in that sign and this entire episode relates

to an admnistrative matter. This causes Ahamkara and desire for power.

Someone called MD has again msguided him by telling him how good

his Sun is. At least he knows better as he had broken his shoulder

bone when he was born in Sun dasa. I shall be grateful if I am told

my error so that I can correct myself.

 

Regards

Sanjay Rath

>

> 6. As for judgments based on someone's chart, it is highly

> unethical to do that. To the best of my knowledge (and I have been

> with some good traditional astrologers in both South and North

India,

> as well as in many spiritual centers and ashrams), it is not common

> for curses in someone's chart being discussed openly. Since someone

> claimed that it was perfectly normal in the Indian setting to do

so,

> I am speaking. NO it is not at all common or considered right in my

> opinion. And most importantly astrology is not meant for such

things.

> It has far better purposes.

>

>

> 7. There are two ways of doing astrology, like anything else.

> Positive or negative. We are here to help people, to give them

hope,

> to counsel them, guide them, to inspire them to be happy and

> peaceful, not to condemn, criticize, or pull down anyone's

> confidence. For that matter any student or teacher with enough

> experience knows that astrology is quite SUBTLE and the

manifestation

> of every astrological combination varied in each chart. The best of

> us could be right 70 to 80%. So how can anyone pronounce with

> certainty anything about past life and such things, which cannot be

> proved? And if understanding the roots of a problem is our main

> concern, if seeking the resolution for a negative karmic pattern,

is

> the main motive, there are better ways in which this can be done.

> Those who are familiar with psychology know how such pronouncements

> can affect a person. This is negative astrology. Anything that is

> restricting or binding cannot be good or healthy in the long run,

> whether it is a relationship or an astrological reading. Truth

> liberates. It sets us FREE. One should prove by predicting on the

> HERE and NOW.

>

>

> To me astrology is just a TOOL, a MEANS, not the end. It gives us a

> method to understand a person's mind, karmic patterns and mental

> complexes. Our life events are a result of our karmas both previous

> and current and the natal chart helps to identify the predominant

> karmic patterns- our prarabdha. There are many psychological and

> spiritual forces at work at any given point of time, some of which

> are conflicting. Even our various thoughts, desires and motives are

> often conflicting. Are they not? Life is often quite complex with

its

> myriad colors, expressions and attractions. The natal chart is a

> reflection of those myriad influences. SHOW ME ONE CHART THAT IS

> ABSOLUTELY IDEAL. No, the ideal or `perfect' simply does not exist!

> Since all charts are a mixture of positive and negative factors

> (karmas), the focus should be not on the `SINS' and `CURSES', but

on

> a positive resolution of those mental complexes. Negative

> pronouncements serve no purpose. They may even strengthen the deep-

> rooted complexes, if they are truly a reflection of a karmic

pattern.

>

>

> Talking of sins and curses and too many mantras is not a good idea.

> Any remedial measure should aim at a change of consciousness, which

> is at the root of the repeated karmic patterns. What is the use of

> feeding crows and penances, when one remains petty minded and

> arrogant? All knowledge is only to make life better, not to depress

a

> person. I strongly object to the use of astrology to condemn,

> criticize, or assassinate someone's character. Assimilation and

> Harmony, not Condemnation and Criticism! Long ago we had fought

each

> other with stones, then simple tools, then bows and arrows, guns,

> planes, nuclear weapons, and now ASTROLOGY! I request all not to

> reduce astrology to one more WEAPON TO FIGHT. Please let astrology

be

> what it is really- THE BEST OF LIGHTS (Jyoti: Light; Ish: Lord or

> Best). Let the Light of Knowledge remove the darkness of ignorance.

> Let it show the way to Wholeness, Love and Peace.

>

>

> LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL,

>

> Satya

>

> Note: This is a request and general message to all, not aimed at

> anyone. Please move on guys, and don't dwell too much on the past.

> There is a wonderful poem by the great poet Kalidasa in Sanskrit,

> which I am typing below for all.

[Guest guest]

gjlist, "Dr Satya Prakash Choudhary"

<satyaprakasika> wrote:

 

> anyone. If vegetarian diet is what is the ultimate yardstick, a

> monkey should be the greatest Yogi, or an elephant! Swami

Vivekananda

> ate beef when he was in the US, and meat when he was in India. That

 

Dear satya,

 

Could you quote the source regarding Vivekananda beef story.

 

 

Regards,

VR

 

 

> does not reduce his greatness or the relevance of his message. But

> that need not be taken as an approval either!

[Guest guest]

Finally, I too have the curse of Guru from my last birth and have

> to do HIS WORK in this birth.

> >

GWB has curse of his Political Guru to work as President of America,

 

And AB Vajpayee has of his to work as PM of India.

 

 

This is Good Use of Astrology with double meaning defending to one and

offending to others.

 

 

Inder Jit Sahni

[Guest guest]

Double meaning or multiple meaning will depend on the eyes of the learner.

But the fact is that this is knowledge from Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra. If

Parasara says so, I will follow. Why are we born Inder Jit? Why did we come

to this world? Is the theory of Karma and transmigration of soul not

intricately inter woven into Jyotish.

That is why sing 'Jagannatha swamy nayanapathagami bhavatu me" and the eyes

will see what is right and will hear what is good...

Om tat sat

Sanjay

 

>

> Inder Jit Sahni [isawhney]

> Saturday, October 05, 2002 7:57 AM

> gjlist

> Re: [GJ] Re: Please Use Astrology Positively (curses, sins,

> condemnations)

>

>

> Finally, I too have the curse of Guru from my last birth and have

> > to do HIS WORK in this birth.

> > >

> GWB has curse of his Political Guru to work as President of America,

>

> And AB Vajpayee has of his to work as PM of India.

>

>

> This is Good Use of Astrology with double meaning defending to one and

> offending to others.

>

>

> Inder Jit Sahni

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

Dear Sri Sanjay ji,

 

At the outset I should clarify that as I already stated in my

previous post, "I love anyone who does any good work to make this

world a better place, or spreads the Light". So I do respect and

wholeheartedly support you in your efforts to spread the Light. I

hope that this sensitive matter will not spoil what could otherwise

be mutual respect and admiration for your work in many ways. I really

did not wish to get involved in this. But since you asked me, I will

try to answer from my point of view. Having clarified this, I will

attempt to answer certain issues raised, only from another Indian

astrologer's view. Let it be clear that it is in a very friendly

manner and has nothing to do with any party here.

 

 

>I have a simple question..were the scriptures wrong in PUBLISHING

>FOR PERPETUITY the CURSE in the HOROSCOPE of BHAGAVAN SRI RAM? Try

>to answer this as it alone shall decide what is right and what is

>wrong in the Indian context..

 

 

NO. But the issue here is whether it is justifiable to discuss a so-

called curse in someone's chart *PUBLICLY, especially when the

person is either the ACCUSED or the DEFENDANT. Done even with the

best spirit, it can subtly suggest something. And in this case it is

quite DIRECT when you say, "There are other things that have been

done which are quite shocking to say the least. The reasons for this

can be traced to his chart and the curse of maternal uncle therein

(Chart attached)"!

 

 

Discussing a curse in Bhagwan Sri Rama's horoscope is very

different. The lives and charts (and the yogas and curses too if you

wish to) of Divinities and saints are meant to be studied, and the

lessons learnt. But a jyotishi cannot reveal private information more

so, in a negative light, in such a context. Let's take the legal

systemfor instance. When a case is being heard, the JURY is

instructed to NOT EVEN READ THE NEWSPAPER REPORTS ABOUT THE CASE, IN

MANY PLACES. Why? Because anything that might tend to prejudice the

jury, is against the defendant's rights.

 

 

If you insist that you were teaching your students on the list by a

live example, that too would be unjustified because it is not

possible to remain OBJECTIVE and the above reason holds true still.

And you could have taught with other examples or in another context.

MOREOVER WHEN IT WAS CLAIMED THAT IT IS RIGHT WITHIN THE **INDIAN

CONTEXT, IT PROJECTS THE WHOLE SYSTEM IN BAD LIGHT, WHICH I RESPONDED

TO, because someone gave that reason. My OBJECTION lies here. An

individual's approach or a particular school's approach

cannot be

used to generalize about a whole nation. India, its culture and

wisdom are far above all this, depending on how one looks at it. Till

the INDIAN CONTEXT was brought into the discussion I stayed away from

it. Like you, I too owe and am responsible to Indian wisdom and the

great sages. I too teach Jyotish freely and share many sentiments,

hopes and visions with respect to Jyotish. This discussion goes

beyond an internal problem, or even a technical astrological

discussion, when the general ethics and foundations are touched upon.

Had it been just the SJC's internal problem, I would have stayed

away, as I still wish to.

 

 

 

I don't mind an astrological discussion of curses, sins etc. But

the tone should be HIGHLY positive when such things are discussed.

Otherwise, I would rather leave them un-discussed and find better

ways to resolve that karma. What is the spirit of the Upanishads?

Where else do you find such inspiring, man-making spiritual

education? Don't the Upanishads give a clarion call to each of us

as `amrtasya putrah' (children of immortal bliss), that our

true nature is of Divinity? The Upanisads are gospels of infinite

strength and immortal bliss, not weakness and sins.

 

 

Anything that breeds weakness or dependence is to be shunned. It is

for such reasons that great men like Swami Vivekananda and Swami

Dayananda saraswati, or even the Buddha, discouraged astrology. Too

much talk of curses and sins leads us nowhere. What is needed is

STRENGTH and DIVINITY. The remedy for weakness is strength, the

remedy for sin is tapas. There is a better way, context and manner to

approach such things in a chart, if one wishes to. At least I beg to

differ here. I can feel the Upanisadic words ringing like great

temple bells, in my head even as I write this.

 

 

 

>Secondly, please read the whole message and advise in the

>bottom "stop fighting ansd start chanting"..is this also wrong? Why

>do people pick up small portions and draw their conclusions..

 

 

 

Sanjay ji, no matter what the message at the bottom could have been,

it definitely was not the CONTEXT to advise him. Moreover if it is an

advice BASED ON THE CHART from an astrologer, it should be done

PRIVATELY, UNLESS the person SPECIFICALLY ASKED YOU TO DISCUSS his

chart on the list. While some may offer the explanation that as his

SIKSHA guru, it is your right, I would object even to that. The

relationship of a guru-sisya, is so different from what is happening

here. THE GURU HAS MORE RESPONSIBILITY THAN THE SISYA. The Guru

should be an EMBODIEMENT of DHARMA; otherwise the whole thing will

collapse one day.

 

 

 

You yourself wrote, "Parampara means ONLY THREE -

Sisya (Student), Guru (Teacher) and Ista (God). Thus, none other is

there in the picture - no father, mother, brother, friends,

colleagues..nobody at all. This is a very clear and simple picture to

visualise and this link alone matters".

 

 

 

That is why I always insist that ordinary mortals like us should not

let the GURU thing enter our heads, as it can eventually be

disastrous for both. It is good that we remain teachers/siksha gurus.

It is the GURU TATTWA that is behind the Guru, not his intellect or

abilities or intelligence. So the emphasis should be either on Guru

Tattwa or Siksha, nothing else.

 

 

>Finally, I too have the curse of Guru from my last birth and have

>to do HIS WORK in this birth. This is a Jyotish forum and if we

>cannot or will not discuss Jyotish, what else should we be doing?

>Kindly advise. I am not ashamed that I have a Curse, and instead

 

 

That is fine. You have the choice and right to discuss the so-called

curse in YOUR CHART. Discussing Jyotish is fine. But not discussion

of charts of people whom we are accusing or who are accusing us.

 

 

 

>Sorry, I haven't been taught to counsel and cannot do that. I have

>learnt Jyotish and this what I can do.

 

 

Sanjay ji, astrologers are supposed to counsel, whether they are

Indian or Arabic or Modern western. The word counsel means (according

to any standard dictionary):

 

** Advice

** Recommend a course of action

** Consultation for advice

** Give professional advice (or formal) to a person on personal

problems

 

 

What else do you think an astrologer is doing? Are you

not "recommending a course of action" when you suggest a

remedial measure? Are you not "advising" when you ask a

person not to start an activity because the time is not appropriate?

Are you not "advising" when you find two charts incompatible?

Are you

not "advising a person on personal problems", from the high

seat of an astrologer when you read the chart of a person in

distress? As a person who approaches Jyotish from a relatively more

spiritual point of view, you may perhaps be able to give spiritual

counsel. But still it is counsel. And I see no reason why there

should be a problem with that word.

 

 

 

>There are a lot of astrologers who use the Tropical chart and are

>very good at counselling as these are the ways of a land where they

>have seen a lot of tough times..they need the healing. In India it

>is the opportunity for the highest path, so why should we compromise

>for less? Many may not agree with me here, but then this is what I

>believe.

 

 

 

Whether one does counseling, or healing or predictions, or

psychological delineations, through astrology, is not dependent on

the Zodiac used, or the system itself. It only reflects an APPROACH.

The psychological approach to astrology is only a TREND of the modern

times, an APPROACH. Books written by tropical astrologers, till as

late as the 18th and even 19th centuries clearly show that the so

called tropical/western astrology was PREDICTIVE. As far as HEALING

is concerned, the whole world needs it. Human beings are much the

same everywhere, and their needs, fears, hopes, emotions,

POTENTIALITIES, the same. Of course India has a great past. But there

were other great spiritual cultures too that have gone away without

any traces. Even Chinese wisdom is deep, its history and

contributions too immense. Of course India has had the unique fortune

of an unbroken living tradition. It is its wisdom that matters and

it is valid for all human beings. In my opinion the Vedic and Tantric

wisdom is universal, it is not restricted to India as a country.

 

 

 

But if we are talking about the true purpose of astrology, as Para

Vidya, sublime spiritual knowledge, then I have a few observations to

make. I whole-heartedly agree with this. It will be obvious from what

I wrote in an article that I posted on the vedic astrology list

nearly 15 months back. I reproduce a paragraph below.

 

 

"Thus, the root cause of all suffering and Karma is ignorance.

The only way to go beyond this, is to bring the light of knowledge.

The first step in this direction is to change one's attitude, to

retrace one's steps along the same path that we have come down.

In other words, the only solution is to go back to our cosmic roots,

to become one with the Cosmic Consciousness. That is liberation, that

is moksha, salvation, whatever you call it. We are born so that we

can exhaust our karmic debts, so that we may be free. This is the

only answer, the only purpose of life. Jyotish is the light that

reveals this great truth to us so that we may be free. A sincere

study of Jyotish can be a great spiritual education, a Sadhana in

itself, for it partly reveals the eternal mysteries of the cosmos to

us. It leads us to the unknown through the known. It guides us out

through the intricate labyrinth that life is, with its myriad pairs

of duality. It shows us the way and ultimately sets us free, by

taking us back to our cosmic roots".

 

 

 

So it is clear that I too believe that Jyotish is Paravidya. In fact

it is this aspect of Jyotish that brought me to Jyotish. Initially

even before I did my Bachelors in Dental Surgery, in my late teens, I

spent three full years after schooling, traveling and studying

Vedanta and Yoga. During this time, since Jyotish is a Vedanga, I

wanted to study it. The Ramakrishna math sansyasis with whom I was

staying then, advised me against it giving certain reasons that you

may be aware of. But I insisted and Swami Ranganathananda ji, my

first guru for Vedanta studies told me that it was OK if I wished to,

but gave me certain advices. Then later Swami Sacchidananda

saraswati, of Sringeri parampara taught me the Agamas as well as the

basics of Jyotish. Later I did my Yogabhyasa from the Sivananda

ashrama. If you see, all the above traditions share the same

parampara. And as you may be aware of, after the daiva parampara, our

rishi parampara includes Vasishtha, Sakti, Parasara, Vyasa, and Suka

among others. Normally I don't go about talking of the parampara

or gurus unless the situation requires. A true guru-sisya relation is

like a love affair, very sweet, and uplifting, not otherwise, as I

have experienced. I am not against tradition, but tradition,

parampara and the guru should not become restricting. Truth sets us

free. And all knowledge must be for liberation and freedom.

 

 

 

Jyotish is and can be practiced as Para Vidya. While theoretically it

is always Para vidya, practically it ceases to be if our approach is

not sattvic. Narasimha ji is right, that in a parampara like the SJC

one cannot charge for astrology TEACHING, since it is Para vidya and

not material knowledge. As you yourself have noted in another context

in one of the posts, "The purity (Niranjana) is lost if there is

any touch of rajas or tamas in this transmission and neither can the

teacher teach properly nor is the sisya going to learn properly".

What an excellent observation you made! This observation is true not

only wrt the transmission, but even the PRACTICE of Jyotish. In

Ayurveda it is said that even sattvic food cooked in a rajasic state

of mind, turns rajasic. Likewise it is advised that one should not

eat food in an angry or unhappy state of mind as it becomes

poisonous. A sattvic mantra done for the fulfillment of a desire, is

rajasic sadhana, as you know. So in the midst of an argument or

controversy, use of astrology in whatever manner, brings rajas to it.

So the vidya ceases to be Para vidya and acquires a touch of rajas.

It may be subtle, but this is how a few others view it.

 

 

And finally as ParaVidya, Jyotish is unique to each man's journey.

The relevance of this aspect of Jyotish becomes clear to each

INDIVIDUAL IN HIS OWN CHART AS AN ONGOING LESSON. This is something

that the individual **experiences and realizes, in HIS own chart. It

is here that Jyotish becomes a sadhana. And sadhana is a personal

thing. This aspect is not something that comes under remedial

measures or mantras or redemption from curses and sins. This happens

as a direct realisation, when DISCRIMINATION is cultivated and

practised as a result of the insights that life and the light on life

(jyotish) provide to the sadhak (practitioner). This discrimination,

in turn brings true knowledge, the ability to discriminate between

the real and the unreal, between knowledge and ignorance. THIS IS NOT

TAUGHT, BUT REALISED.

 

 

 

Sanjay ji, you do not need to be told all this. You yourself are very

learned. But at times we all get caught in the play, forgetting that

this is only a play, that it should not be taken too seriously.

Sanjay ji, no one is perfect. But that does not reduce your value.

You have special abilities, inspiration, a good background and an

undaunted spirit. You are suited to do what you are doing. And if

such small things are eliminated, perhaps, you will fulfill your

mission even better. I respect your knowledge and stance still. Had

it been someone else, it may not have mattered. But you have, as you

yourself say, a big responsibility. And hence it matters because you

will have to guide many others. Once you have accepted someone as a

sisya, a spiritual bond is made somehow. Even if he is mislead, it

would be great if you can show compassion and give him love. If it

really is a guru-sisya relation, it is not something that you will be

able to disown so easily. If a kid does a major mistake, still

doesn't the father love him and bring him back one day? Isn't

the

Guru more like a father? I am sure that love and compassion can do a

lot. As I wrote to Narasimha ji in the beginning itself, this matter

should not have been made public. It should have been within the

Achyuta list. Even now nothing is really lost. What matters is how

you resolve it. If you think that it is not possible, then please

forget it. I know that DND would be tired too. How much time and

energy has gone into all this? Soon the moment will come when he will

be willing to listen and so will everyone else. Everything shall

pass. When great kingdoms have disappeared like particles of dust,

when countless Indras and Brahmas have been swallowed like bubbles in

the ocean of eternity, who are we? What matters is the ONE. Neither

me nor you nor DND. And only His will shall be done eventually. Sorry

if I have hurt you in any way. My intention is not that. Let us put

an end to these small weaknesses and help each other in this

wonderful journey. Praying that you do not misunderstand my words as

I still like your work and wish all the best for you.

 

 

Regards,

 

Satya

[Guest guest]

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

 

Dear VR,

 

It is either from his two volume biography or his letters where in he

replies back to accusations against him propogated by jealous Indian

organisations backed by the Christian missionaries. Anyway the source

in either case is from books published by the Sri Ramakrishna

mission/Advaita ashram. I can even give you the exact reference in

October last week, since I will be in India then and can check from

my library there.I myself prefer sattvic diet, but refrain from being

judgemental about these things. Though they are very helpul for

sadhaks, these things are not the essence of sadhana. Hope I am clear.

 

Regards,

Satya

 

 

 

gjlist, "venkateshwara_reddy" <venkateshwara_reddy>

wrote:

> gjlist, "Dr Satya Prakash Choudhary"

> <satyaprakasika> wrote:

>

> > anyone. If vegetarian diet is what is the ultimate yardstick, a

> > monkey should be the greatest Yogi, or an elephant! Swami

> Vivekananda

> > ate beef when he was in the US, and meat when he was in India.

That

>

> Dear satya,

>

> Could you quote the source regarding Vivekananda beef story.

>

>

> Regards,

> VR

>

>

> > does not reduce his greatness or the relevance of his message.

But

> > that need not be taken as an approval either!

[Guest guest]

>Yes..Krodha (anger-Mars) & Dukkha (sorrow-Saturn) can blur the vision. I should

not have chosen that moment to do it. You are right once again my anger has

blurred my judgment and this is bad. >This is caused due to a curse indicated

by the aspect of Mars & saturn on Jupiter. Yes, this is not the traditional way

of handling things ande-mail was never in the tradition..trying to improvise

>leads to may pitfalls, yet I try. I am attaching y chart and you can see this

clearly.

You should at least apologize to me for doing this with my chart. Unfortunately

you have involved yourself in this discussion. If you read my previous emails,

you can see that I never intended to make you a part of this disgraceful

discussion with Robert and Laxmi. I am glad that now you are coming to your

senses and you are realizing that you made a mistake. It is good, none will

blame if you made a mistake and you admit it, it is human. Everyone makes

mistakes and none is perfect in this material world. Actually admitting a

mistake shows greatness of a person. You should understand that people have

respect for your knowledge and expect from you different kind of behavior, but

when you start writing like you did in my case people feel disgusted about it

and naturally wonder why are you doing this. Even your students told you this.

 

Do you think that I felt good when I was writing my response to your email? No,

not at all, I felt very bad, but seeing what you are doing to me I had no other

option but to defend myself and I would prefer if I never had to write such

email, but if I am attacked I will defend myself.

 

I know that you didn't write that email about me on your own, but on the advice

your students from USA. I hope that now you realize how damaging for you wrong

association can be. Please think about this, I don't want to be your enemy or

anything like that and I am humbly requesting you to please rethink your recent

decisions and actions.

 

Hare Krishna,

Dinanatha Das.