Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 The apparition of retrograde is the same for both systems of astrology, happens at the same time, just the way the calculations are made, the two systems always say, that the planets are at different locations in the zodiac, but the retrogrades, stations, conjunctions, oppositions, etc., of what the planets are doing, are always taking place at the same time in both systems. The only difference the two systems have is where they say the planets are located against the starry backdrop... Sidereal saying the truth against the starry backdrop, and the Tropical using a "Sun Sign" system which has the same names, but is now 23 or so degrees shifted from the real signs, their signs being based on the Sun-Earth relationship of equinoxes etc., which has shifted from the stars due to the tilting of the earth over time. So in both, say, Saturns exact hit on your moon, both systems will give you the exact same day, but one will say your Moon and the hitting saturn are at say 28 degree's of a sign, and the other system will say they're both at 5 degrees of that sign, but they both agree when Saturn hits the said point, because actually... Vedic or Sidereal calculations are done nowadays using Western software completely, even Nasa uses the Tropical calculations so to speak... TRUE But then... ! Important point...! The people, NASA and Siderealists, who want to know the longitude of a planet against the real zodiac... Have to subtract the ayanamsa from the Tropical longitude of a planet, to pinpoint the planet in a telescope or in a Vedic chart, etc. If you want the truth in other words, you must do this last and final calculation of subtracting the "ayanamsa" (which means "subtracted part") So therefore, since we're using the Tropical calcs, if they say a conjunction is occuring, then we say it too, just EVERYTHING is shifted back 23 degrees. This part of the science is REALLY easy in one sense, that is: "Just subtract 23 from eveything to turn tropical to sidereal." (that's the current number, it shifts over time, and so in earlier centuries it's less) And in other ways, this is a confounding, confusing subject, difficult to envision, etc. I have made really great drawings of the space based appearance of this subject for a book I'm writing, showing the tilt, the calculations, how it works, etc. Peace Das Goravani, President 2852 Willamette St, #353 Eugene, OR, 97405, USA-America Voice: or in America fax: 541-343-0344 http://www.DancingMoonInc.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 Das... What a relief!! Thank you for your explanation about the "retrogrades" in both systems. Somehow I thought I would have to face a double whammy especially with Saturn opposing my moon this past year. Looking forward to this last retrograde period to be over with so it can swing past the moon's opposition and move forward with welcomed relief. At least until it's next cycle. You explained it so well. I'd love to see the drawings!! love, Georgette At 04:59 AM 11/18/2002 -0800, you wrote: >The apparition of retrograde is the same for both systems of astrology, >happens at the same time, just the way the calculations are made, the two >systems always say, that the planets are at different locations in the >zodiac, but the retrogrades, stations, conjunctions, oppositions, etc., of >what the planets are doing, are always taking place at the same time in both >systems. The only difference the two systems have is where they say the >planets are located against the starry backdrop... Sidereal saying the truth >against the starry backdrop, and the Tropical using a "Sun Sign" system >which has the same names, but is now 23 or so degrees shifted from the real >signs, their signs being based on the Sun-Earth relationship of equinoxes >etc., which has shifted from the stars due to the tilting of the earth over >time. > >So in both, say, Saturns exact hit on your moon, both systems will give you >the exact same day, but one will say your Moon and the hitting saturn are at >say 28 degree's of a sign, and the other system will say they're both at 5 >degrees of that sign, but they both agree when Saturn hits the said point, >because actually... > >Vedic or Sidereal calculations are done nowadays using Western software >completely, even Nasa uses the Tropical calculations so to speak... TRUE > >But then... ! > >Important point...! > >The people, NASA and Siderealists, who want to know the longitude of a >planet against the real zodiac... > >Have to subtract the ayanamsa from the Tropical longitude of a planet, to >pinpoint the planet in a telescope or in a Vedic chart, etc. If you want the >truth in other words, you must do this last and final calculation of >subtracting the "ayanamsa" (which means "subtracted part") > >So therefore, since we're using the Tropical calcs, if they say a >conjunction is occuring, then we say it too, just EVERYTHING is shifted back >23 degrees. > >This part of the science is REALLY easy in one sense, that is: > >"Just subtract 23 from eveything to turn tropical to sidereal." (that's the >current number, it shifts over time, and so in earlier centuries it's less) > >And in other ways, this is a confounding, confusing subject, difficult to >envision, etc. > >I have made really great drawings of the space based appearance of this >subject for a book I'm writing, showing the tilt, the calculations, how it >works, etc. > >Peace > > >Das Goravani, President > >2852 Willamette St, #353 >Eugene, OR, 97405, USA-America >Voice: or in America >fax: 541-343-0344 > > >http://www.DancingMoonInc.com > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 Dear Das Great description, but there is a strange anomaly. When you calculate the transits of Saturn to the natal Moon in both systems, there may be a difference of several days. The ayanamsa can influence the transit of a slow moving planet significantly. Since I came to VA from TA, I ran both lists of transits. I found the VA transits were more consistent. The best results came when I would predict a time between the two. Now I just use the Vedic transit hits and suggest a zone of several days on either side when using Saturn. cynthia - "Das Goravani" <> <gjlist> Monday, November 18, 2002 6:59 AM [GJ] Saturn's Retrogrades, West/East etc > > > The apparition of retrograde is the same for both systems of astrology, > happens at the same time, just the way the calculations are made, the two > systems always say, that the planets are at different locations in the > zodiac, but the retrogrades, stations, conjunctions, oppositions, etc., of > what the planets are doing, are always taking place at the same time in both > systems. The only difference the two systems have is where they say the > planets are located against the starry backdrop... Sidereal saying the truth > against the starry backdrop, and the Tropical using a "Sun Sign" system > which has the same names, but is now 23 or so degrees shifted from the real > signs, their signs being based on the Sun-Earth relationship of equinoxes > etc., which has shifted from the stars due to the tilting of the earth over > time. > > So in both, say, Saturns exact hit on your moon, both systems will give you > the exact same day, but one will say your Moon and the hitting saturn are at > say 28 degree's of a sign, and the other system will say they're both at 5 > degrees of that sign, but they both agree when Saturn hits the said point, > because actually... > > Vedic or Sidereal calculations are done nowadays using Western software > completely, even Nasa uses the Tropical calculations so to speak... TRUE > > But then... ! > > Important point...! > > The people, NASA and Siderealists, who want to know the longitude of a > planet against the real zodiac... > > Have to subtract the ayanamsa from the Tropical longitude of a planet, to > pinpoint the planet in a telescope or in a Vedic chart, etc. If you want the > truth in other words, you must do this last and final calculation of > subtracting the "ayanamsa" (which means "subtracted part") > > So therefore, since we're using the Tropical calcs, if they say a > conjunction is occuring, then we say it too, just EVERYTHING is shifted back > 23 degrees. > > This part of the science is REALLY easy in one sense, that is: > > "Just subtract 23 from eveything to turn tropical to sidereal." (that's the > current number, it shifts over time, and so in earlier centuries it's less) > > And in other ways, this is a confounding, confusing subject, difficult to > envision, etc. > > I have made really great drawings of the space based appearance of this > subject for a book I'm writing, showing the tilt, the calculations, how it > works, etc. > > Peace > > > Das Goravani, President > > 2852 Willamette St, #353 > Eugene, OR, 97405, USA-America > Voice: or in America > fax: 541-343-0344 > > > http://www.DancingMoonInc.com > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 Cynthia... you said... >The ayanamsa can influence the transit of a >slow moving planet significantly. What is the ayanamsa?? Still learning the terminology:-() >Since I came to VA from TA, I ran both lists of transits. I found the VA >transits were more consistent. The best results came when I would predict a >time between the two. Now I just use the Vedic transit hits and suggest a >zone of several days on either side when using Saturn. What do you mean by zone?? Do you mean degrees/orb?? So you recommend (prefer) VA transits over TA transits?? thanks...G. >cynthia >- >"Das Goravani" <> ><gjlist> >Monday, November 18, 2002 6:59 AM >[GJ] Saturn's Retrogrades, West/East etc > > > > > > > > The apparition of retrograde is the same for both systems of astrology, > > happens at the same time, just the way the calculations are made, the two > > systems always say, that the planets are at different locations in the > > zodiac, but the retrogrades, stations, conjunctions, oppositions, etc., of > > what the planets are doing, are always taking place at the same time in >both > > systems. The only difference the two systems have is where they say the > > planets are located against the starry backdrop... Sidereal saying the >truth > > against the starry backdrop, and the Tropical using a "Sun Sign" system > > which has the same names, but is now 23 or so degrees shifted from the >real > > signs, their signs being based on the Sun-Earth relationship of equinoxes > > etc., which has shifted from the stars due to the tilting of the earth >over > > time. > > > > So in both, say, Saturns exact hit on your moon, both systems will give >you > > the exact same day, but one will say your Moon and the hitting saturn are >at > > say 28 degree's of a sign, and the other system will say they're both at 5 > > degrees of that sign, but they both agree when Saturn hits the said point, > > because actually... > > > > Vedic or Sidereal calculations are done nowadays using Western software > > completely, even Nasa uses the Tropical calculations so to speak... TRUE > > > > But then... ! > > > > Important point...! > > > > The people, NASA and Siderealists, who want to know the longitude of a > > planet against the real zodiac... > > > > Have to subtract the ayanamsa from the Tropical longitude of a planet, to > > pinpoint the planet in a telescope or in a Vedic chart, etc. If you want >the > > truth in other words, you must do this last and final calculation of > > subtracting the "ayanamsa" (which means "subtracted part") > > > > So therefore, since we're using the Tropical calcs, if they say a > > conjunction is occuring, then we say it too, just EVERYTHING is shifted >back > > 23 degrees. > > > > This part of the science is REALLY easy in one sense, that is: > > > > "Just subtract 23 from eveything to turn tropical to sidereal." (that's >the > > current number, it shifts over time, and so in earlier centuries it's >less) > > > > And in other ways, this is a confounding, confusing subject, difficult to > > envision, etc. > > > > I have made really great drawings of the space based appearance of this > > subject for a book I'm writing, showing the tilt, the calculations, how >it > > works, etc. > > > > Peace > > > > > > Das Goravani, President > > > > 2852 Willamette St, #353 > > Eugene, OR, 97405, USA-America > > Voice: or in America > > fax: 541-343-0344 > > > > > > http://www.DancingMoonInc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > : gjlist- > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat >: gjlist- > > > >Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Dear Georgette No problem, I still struggle with the terminology The ayanamsa is the term for the precession of the equinoxes. The zone is a person of a few days rather than using one specific day. Saturn remains in a degree for several days. Often a Saturn transit is really set off by the transit of the Moon, so file that away for future use. I often use the transits not so much as a specific day but a time that is useful for various things. I like to suggest what the time might feel like, what it is good for and how it might also be difficult. Here is an example. If a person had a Saturn transit coming to a personal planet. ('ll get flack for this) You can pretty much bet that they will have a tough time at their work (Saturn). Even if a person is self employed they will feel frustrated or in some manner impeded by their work and or employer. Knowing that this transit will not last for ever helps. Understanding what Saturn has to teach us helps navigate the transit even better. I do prefer the VA transits better. The timing is not as significant as the houses, their meaning and manifestation in the native's life. I like to look at the TA chart for personality, I use the outer planets because they are so significant that a planet anywhere in your chart at 1 degree is triggered by Uranus now that often the whole client dilemma will be Uranian in nature. But the clarity of the VA chart is awesome. It had greatly enhanced my business and my clients endure the change interminology to receive the benefits from its accuracy. For some time I would begin a session with very limited reference to the Vedic chart. I started with the axis of Rahu and Ketu and their houses. I learned from my clients. I offered the Vedic part free and added extra time to the session. Very quickly I found that for me the Vedic chart offered a clearer view into the client and his or her knots to untie as well as their talents. I am, however, still puzzled when I see beautiful yogas that are not actualized in the person's life. When I see that, I do not assume that the chart is wrong because it does not appear on the surface of the life, but talk directly to these traits as gifts and find that the person had indeed always had these potentials, but was told as a child that they were frailties, not strengths. Sorry, I just had coffee and am babbling. I just want to encourage you to make the stretch to Vedic and watch it evolve as a rich tool for your work too. I do not believe, and have found that for me that it does not require that you set aside all you know to be true in western to be very rich and useful. We bring all of ourselves and our history to every endeavor. co - "Georgette Young Liebhaber" <georgetteyoung <gjlist> Monday, November 18, 2002 11:09 PM Re: [GJ] Saturn's Retrogrades, West/East etc > Cynthia... > > you said... > > >The ayanamsa can influence the transit of a > >slow moving planet significantly. > > What is the ayanamsa?? Still learning the terminology:-() > > >Since I came to VA from TA, I ran both lists of transits. I found the VA > >transits were more consistent. The best results came when I would predict a > >time between the two. Now I just use the Vedic transit hits and suggest a > >zone of several days on either side when using Saturn. > > > What do you mean by zone?? Do you mean degrees/orb?? > > So you recommend (prefer) VA transits over TA transits?? > > thanks...G. > > > >cynthia > >- > >"Das Goravani" <> > ><gjlist> > >Monday, November 18, 2002 6:59 AM > >[GJ] Saturn's Retrogrades, West/East etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > The apparition of retrograde is the same for both systems of astrology, > > > happens at the same time, just the way the calculations are made, the two > > > systems always say, that the planets are at different locations in the > > > zodiac, but the retrogrades, stations, conjunctions, oppositions, etc., of > > > what the planets are doing, are always taking place at the same time in > >both > > > systems. The only difference the two systems have is where they say the > > > planets are located against the starry backdrop... Sidereal saying the > >truth > > > against the starry backdrop, and the Tropical using a "Sun Sign" system > > > which has the same names, but is now 23 or so degrees shifted from the > >real > > > signs, their signs being based on the Sun-Earth relationship of equinoxes > > > etc., which has shifted from the stars due to the tilting of the earth > >over > > > time. > > > > > > So in both, say, Saturns exact hit on your moon, both systems will give > >you > > > the exact same day, but one will say your Moon and the hitting saturn are > >at > > > say 28 degree's of a sign, and the other system will say they're both at 5 > > > degrees of that sign, but they both agree when Saturn hits the said point, > > > because actually... > > > > > > Vedic or Sidereal calculations are done nowadays using Western software > > > completely, even Nasa uses the Tropical calculations so to speak... TRUE > > > > > > But then... ! > > > > > > Important point...! > > > > > > The people, NASA and Siderealists, who want to know the longitude of a > > > planet against the real zodiac... > > > > > > Have to subtract the ayanamsa from the Tropical longitude of a planet, to > > > pinpoint the planet in a telescope or in a Vedic chart, etc. If you want > >the > > > truth in other words, you must do this last and final calculation of > > > subtracting the "ayanamsa" (which means "subtracted part") > > > > > > So therefore, since we're using the Tropical calcs, if they say a > > > conjunction is occuring, then we say it too, just EVERYTHING is shifted > >back > > > 23 degrees. > > > > > > This part of the science is REALLY easy in one sense, that is: > > > > > > "Just subtract 23 from eveything to turn tropical to sidereal." (that's > >the > > > current number, it shifts over time, and so in earlier centuries it's > >less) > > > > > > And in other ways, this is a confounding, confusing subject, difficult to > > > envision, etc. > > > > > > I have made really great drawings of the space based appearance of this > > > subject for a book I'm writing, showing the tilt, the calculations, how > >it > > > works, etc. > > > > > > Peace > > > > > > > > > Das Goravani, President > > > > > > 2852 Willamette St, #353 > > > Eugene, OR, 97405, USA-America > > > Voice: or in America > > > fax: 541-343-0344 > > > > > > > > > http://www.DancingMoonInc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > > : gjlist- > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > >: gjlist- > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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