Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 All-And Especially Georgette, Dasji has made so many valid comments on the deeper meaning of Sade Sati, I almost feel like I'm committing overkill here. But I go on. To reiterate, Sade Sati, means, "7 1/2", and refers to the transit of Saturn over the Moon, and the signs that flank it. As Saturn is considered one of the most difficult malefic, or challenging planets in all of Vedic Astrology, connoting pain, delay and in some cases, even death, this transit usually portends a time of profound loss. Originally seen from the perspective of just the Moon alone, it is now recognized to be operative when it occurs from either the Moon or the Asc. Instead of thinking only in terms of "losing" something or someone, I think the bigger question becomes WHY it is being lost at this time. And further, HOW is the person undergoing Sade Sati managing these difficulties? In today's expanded understanding and appreciation of the Human Condition, such an expanded view of Sad Sati becomes very helpful to a potential client. Saturn ultimately is the Great Taskmaster, the teacher with whom you cannot fool. Its lessons last a lifetime, and once they are imparted, they are rarely forgotten. And though there are many manifestations of Saturn at work - from its Dasas, to is 8th house transit of the natal Moon, to is mutual transit aspect (opposition) to same and so on - it is the Sade Sati that is perhaps the most profound of them all. Just doing a cursory study of notable people who underwent this will tell you much about how this timing strucure operates. Sade Sati is rarely if ever discussed in many of the modern day Vedic Astrology books, and is not mentioned at all in the standard classics on the subject - yet it is recognized by nearly every Vedic Astrologer worth his or her salt. Like Kuja Dosha, it is something that is to be scanned for in every horoscope - to overlook it, is to be very sloppy in your work. I could go on and on, but I will just say here, that during my Sade Sati, I lost my grand mother, step-dad and mom; one of the translations for Sade Sati is, "the loss of those who protected us". And even, if you live that long, you often lose you own life on the third go around of Sade Sati. Again, I have seen this to be operating. If you have the Moon in the 12th or 2nd from the Asc, the double whammy that Sade Sati puts on you can be truly devastating. Or, as in the case of Dasji, you have the Moon in the 11th - then you get caught in the grip of a double Sade Sati, because Saturn first transits the 11th house where the Moon is, then goes on to hit the Asc. The same can be said if the Moon is in the 3rd. Of course, nothing can be seen in isolation, and the wise, creative and experienced Jyotishi will know how to see Sade Sati properly. A chart that has Sade Sati in progress, but at the same time is also running a very favorable Dasa, is not as likely to manifest as problematic as one where a difficult Dasa is also taking place. All of these factors have to be taken into consideration. As a case in point, consider the case of actor Ben Affleck, whose chart I was studying just this morning: Aug 15, 1972, 2:53am PDT, Berkley, CA, USA. Asc, Lahiri: 15 Gem 05. Note that Affleck has the Saturn Return, with natal Saturn in the 12th house, ruling the 8th. Note also that it is in the 8th from the natal Moon, and note that he is in the grip of Sade Sati, when seen from the Asc position. Note also that this same Saturn conjoins his natal Venus, as it also is in the Asc. Note finally that Saturn/Venus is in operation, and they are 2/12 from each other, a clear signal of failure and loss. He and Jeniffer Lopez are to wed soon, and I say that they won't make it a year before calling it quits. It would appear, that Affleck is headed for a very important lesson, through loss, about relationships, among other things. Note that this same Sade Sati will have a debilitating effect on his career as well. Hmm. So, all in all, Sade Sati periods are usually ones where hard lessons are learned, and losses are experienced in some way. So often, such is the way of Saturn. Salaam, Mu --- Das Goravani <> wrote: > > > My experiences with Saturns Lunar Transit, and life > in general when malefics > strike, on myself and many hundreds of others, is > that it is no light > matter, similar to G. Kumar's posture. I think that > what he says is from the > side of real experience. > > Not the others are wrong. It's just different > degrees of CURRENT > appreciation of how suffering feels. > > I know that when I'm just a wee bit UP, I get real > optimistic about telling > people how to handle suffering. When I'm back down, > I agree that it's to be > feared. My posture changes greatly. My more sincere > prayers resume. As Queen > Kunti says in Mahabharat or Bhagavatam, when we are > down, that is when we > pray best. > > I am suffering always for years, I get very few up > times. I know many others > who are as well. Not just Sade Sati, but also the > dashas of Saturn, and the > nodes, and other heavy transits combined with the > malefic dashas. Many > people are suffering in many ways, and some, quite a > few, are suffering > mental internal anquish nearly constantly, for years > in a row without break. > > This is very serious, extremely serious. Suicide, > overeating, drugs, not > working, getting on various government and family > assistance financial > reliefs, are all commonplace escape routes for > these people, commonplace > shelters from the storm of pain. > > To keep spirit alive and well in the suffering is > hard work. I know, because > I try for myself and others in my town. It's so > hard. We go on supporting > each other, sharing gifts, visiting each other, and > it seemingly never ends. > It is punishment. It is pain. It is real. We really > are suffering. It's very > real. All our training and effort has a hard time > keeping our heads above > depression. We try everything. > > In the end, we find the best thing that works the > most, is prayer, > meditation, japa, and also, prayer, meditation, and > japa, and usually or > sometimes, prayer, meditation, and japa, and last > resort is prayer, > meditation, and japa. Everything else is weaker for > solving depression, and > we try it all. > > "Spirit, you made me, I am in you, I am one with > you, and you are in me, and > I in you, I accept you, I am not afraid, I am one > with spirit, so I am not > afraid, I will take steps, and go on, in spirit, > anticipating little things > only, watching just right before me only, expecting > nothing special, in > spirit, one step at a time, one with spirit, > unafraid" > > Repeat repeat repeat. > > Today I counsel a man at a clinic who will die of > AIDS anyday. Reality > check. > > "Spirit, I have many gifts of thee, and I appreciate > them, not taking them > for granted, spirit, help me to be simple and in > love with just breathing, > thankful for just consciousness, spirit, help me to > be simple, free from big > thoughts, free from want, you Spirit, are my father, > mother, guide and > shelter, why should I think or want, move me in > spirit, allow spirit to flow > through me, I have no choice, let me have no > objection, spirit, fill me, > spirit, fill me, i am one with you, fill me so that > I have no room for fear, > desire, hope, spirit, fill me, make me your channel" > > We are all victims of spirits decisions. Astrology > is the guide to spirits > plan. It is scary. There is no way to glossy it up. > Usually, there is hard > times coming at some point, usually more than half > the time, for most. Only > some are spared for some time from pain. Mostly > people know pain. We are > being forced to the above prayers. Some have not the > need, but they are more > rare. The young are optimistic though not satisfied. > This optimism blinds > them to their own pains. Later, I see, as we get > past 40, the reality > awakening is heavy, and all around. > > The most free from pain are those who have no more > hope of anything but pain > anymore at all. Those who know that they are ugly, > dieing, unwanted, poor, > and who know that it will never end until death, > they are the most spiritual > when they are of that mindset, the most free from > all thoughts outside of > God. It's simply true. It's hope that keeps us bound > to pain. I read the > writings of those in prison for political reasons, > religious reasons. They > write like this about life prison mates, about those > who will never see > freedom, will never have sex, will never have > anything. Some of them pray > more sincerely than anyone else. This I understand. > Hope, also Baba Ram Das > speaks about it's "againstness" towards spirit. > > If anyone blasts me for being heavy and dark, I > feel, they are very > fortunate, and I really am happy for them! I WISH I > could share the view. > > However, it won't change what I deal with every day, > in myself, and many > around me physically, and on the phone, and on the > web, and in the papers, > and what I see. Life is very hard. Spirit, prayer, > God consciousness, > mediation, is the only answer for many, who's life > and optimism do not have > the chance of Hollywood style satisfactions anymore. > > But when I pray very sincerely, I DO get a break, > and I DO see the light, > the birds, the clean air, the leaves falling, happy > feelings come in me, and > I am happy, glad to be alive, glad to be of service, > glad to live another > day, but I must stay there, stay praying, for very > quickly comes back the > pain, when I see a woman, and think "why am I > alone", or a few other key > thoughts and points in life, so prayer is the > vitamins of my restless soul > and mind. > > "Spirit, guide me, spirit, fill me, there is nothing > but you, God, who > creates and provides for all, takes everything away > from all, and in whom > all exist always. May I clearly think of you, > spirit, god, truth, constancy > of your reality, and thus not suffer mental anxiety > over the vanquishing of > the known to be fleating temporary manifestation, by > you, in your whim" > > The quotes are my own prayers, not quoted from > somewhere. It's just the > ramblings of my ever prayerful head, my only solace. > > I share this not to get attention, for nothing > tangible to end my pain has > ever come of such writings, and I am clear on this, > after trying for years. > I share this to share with those in pain, who are > reading, I know, for they > tell me so regularly, with thanks. I share for them. > This is for those who > need encouragement, as I do, without the lies that > our pain isn't real, for > we know it is real, though we are trying to rise > above it, which is also a > real possibility, but hard. > > As for just getting out and getting over it, yeah, I > agree, but then why are > so many of us always here? It's hard. That's all. > It's hard. That's what > the hard parts of the chart are about- especially > Saturn- blockages. Healing > is removing them. Let there be healers everwhere. As > Mast Chun Yi Linn of > QiKong says, "A healer in every family, a world > without === message truncated === ===== Mu'Min M. Bey Western and Vedic Astrologer mumin_bey AOL IM Screen Name: JediMu 2Way Pager: 1-877-345-6499/8773456499; Cell phone: 267-978-2812 Join the Pan Astrological Forum, Where Freedom in Astrological Thought Lives! Just send a blank email to panastroforum- Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 > > Instead of thinking only in terms of "losing" > something or someone, I think the bigger question > becomes WHY it is being lost at this time. And > further, HOW is the person undergoing Sade Sati > managing these difficulties? In today's expanded > understanding and appreciation of the Human Condition, > such an expanded view of Sad Sati becomes very helpful > to a potential client. > Dear Mumin This is well put and what I find is most helpful when working with a client. I have also found that by looking back in time too previous Saturn transits with the client, seeing what transpired and how it influenced the life is very helpful also. The Saturn theme manifests in different people in different themes. Many see it played out in work, which in the US can change frequently. The job is not as significant as the sense of purpose and being purposeful. Often there is a repeating thread through the various Saturn transits. The feeling of being hopeless and helpless is very common as is the physical sensation that you are wearing a cement overcoat and can't seem to take it off. There is also an awareness that comes through, rather like breaking out of a shell. By looking back, the lesson is often repeated. The actual loss is not as significant to me as what the person does from that point on. When Saturn crossed my Moon I thought that if I remained in my former profession I would die. I thought I had another job lined up. I would have a little rest then push forward again. I knew I wanted to be an astrologer, but did not have the sense of self to push my career forward, though I had many years of study and good results. I also kept hearing that I should move to Dallas. This seemed crazy to me. I did not even know a soul in Dallas, nor did I find it appealing. I fought it and resisted, trying to find something that made sense, and spent a lot of time staring at the ceiling. It took a lousy paying, boring job and an eviction notice from my landlord (I had never been late on my rent) to get me to move. I had a lover who offered a place to stay, then decided he would help me, but not be involved with me. I knew that I needed to come to Dallas, had no where to go so I took the offer. Was the difficulty necessary? It was because my perceptions were so limited. Might it have been different if I had taken my 401K and moved to Dallas at the beginning? Is the long, internal struggle essential? I could answer yes to both. Once I got to Dallas I gave it my all and forced myself to promote, as well as accepting the only opportunity that offered itself: doing little readings at a weekly happy-hour party......I HATE happy hour! It launched my career in 3 months. Sorry for rambling, just wanted to share the journey of the birth of my career, along with the pains of the process. c By the time Saturn pulled off my Moon I had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 At 12:08 AM 11/20/2002 -0800, you wrote: All-And Especially Georgette, Dasji has made so many valid comments on the deeper meaning of Sade Sati, I almost feel like I'm committing overkill here. But I go on. Not at all this is an important issue!! Thanks for your take on the matter. It really helps. You said..."If you have the Moon in the 12th or 2nd from the Asc, the double whammy that Sade Sati puts on you can be truly devastating." Well, what about if the moon in in the FIRST?? For example, I have a patient I am seeing for infertility. She has her moon (6 degrees) in Cancer in the first house with Saturn just starting the Sade Sati, and he's in the 12th. And she just started a new Venus cycle this past July. Female: born...6/23/1963 7:47 am Provo, Utah >From her western medical-astrology workup, her chart contains the"signature" for some serious gynecological issues AND she's trying all kinds of methods to conceive a child right now. I am concerned about her. She's done her psychological work to heal the issues around her mother, and she has dug herself up out of the trenches of what life has dealt her this lifetime. And,...now, she's in a good place. But I am worried about how this Sade Sati might manifest. Could this be the trigger ?? My biggest fear for her is ovarian or uterine cancer somewhere down the road. I've been placing my needles in sacred geometric patterning top open up her second chakra and crown. From just my observation of her sacrum, there is a lot of stagnation,...it's puffy with spider veins running thru the area of the sacrum. The temperature of the skin is even different from the surrounding areas, it's cold around the kidneys. Her belly is distended and her liver is hot. There's definitely something stirring. And yet, I would like to be hopeful about her chances of getting pregnant. But I'm not sure it will happen. Can anyone recommend any GEMS ?? Georgette To reiterate, Sade Sati, means, "7 1/2", and refers to the transit of Saturn over the Moon, and the signs that flank it. As Saturn is considered one of the most difficult malefic, or challenging planets in all of Vedic Astrology, connoting pain, delay and in some cases, even death, this transit usually portends a time of profound loss. Originally seen from the perspective of just the Moon alone, it is now recognized to be operative when it occurs from either the Moon or the Asc. Instead of thinking only in terms of "losing" something or someone, I think the bigger question becomes WHY it is being lost at this time. And further, HOW is the person undergoing Sade Sati managing these difficulties? In today's expanded understanding and appreciation of the Human Condition, such an expanded view of Sad Sati becomes very helpful to a potential client. Saturn ultimately is the Great Taskmaster, the teacher with whom you cannot fool. Its lessons last a lifetime, and once they are imparted, they are rarely forgotten. And though there are many manifestations of Saturn at work - from its Dasas, to is 8th house transit of the natal Moon, to is mutual transit aspect (opposition) to same and so on - it is the Sade Sati that is perhaps the most profound of them all. Just doing a cursory study of notable people who underwent this will tell you much about how this timing strucure operates. Sade Sati is rarely if ever discussed in many of the modern day Vedic Astrology books, and is not mentioned at all in the standard classics on the subject - yet it is recognized by nearly every Vedic Astrologer worth his or her salt. Like Kuja Dosha, it is something that is to be scanned for in every horoscope - to overlook it, is to be very sloppy in your work. I could go on and on, but I will just say here, that during my Sade Sati, I lost my grand mother, step-dad and mom; one of the translations for Sade Sati is, "the loss of those who protected us". And even, if you live that long, you often lose you own life on the third go around of Sade Sati. Again, I have seen this to be operating. If you have the Moon in the 12th or 2nd from the Asc, the double whammy that Sade Sati puts on you can be truly devastating. Or, as in the case of Dasji, you have the Moon in the 11th - then you get caught in the grip of a double Sade Sati, because Saturn first transits the 11th house where the Moon is, then goes on to hit the Asc. The same can be said if the Moon is in the 3rd. Of course, nothing can be seen in isolation, and the wise, creative and experienced Jyotishi will know how to see Sade Sati properly. A chart that has Sade Sati in progress, but at the same time is also running a very favorable Dasa, is not as likely to manifest as problematic as one where a difficult Dasa is also taking place. All of these factors have to be taken into consideration. As a case in point, consider the case of actor Ben Affleck, whose chart I was studying just this morning: Aug 15, 1972, 2:53am PDT, Berkley, CA, USA. Asc, Lahiri: 15 Gem 05. Note that Affleck has the Saturn Return, with natal Saturn in the 12th house, ruling the 8th. Note also that it is in the 8th from the natal Moon, and note that he is in the grip of Sade Sati, when seen from the Asc position. Note also that this same Saturn conjoins his natal Venus, as it also is in the Asc. Note finally that Saturn/Venus is in operation, and they are 2/12 from each other, a clear signal of failure and loss. He and Jeniffer Lopez are to wed soon, and I say that they won't make it a year before calling it quits. It would appear, that Affleck is headed for a very important lesson, through loss, about relationships, among other things. Note that this same Sade Sati will have a debilitating effect on his career as well. Hmm. So, all in all, Sade Sati periods are usually ones where hard lessons are learned, and losses are experienced in some way. So often, such is the way of Saturn. Salaam, Mu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 Dear Mu Min and Cynthia and List, Have either of you used remedies specifically for hopelessness during these Saturn transits? Hopelessness seems to a word commonly used to describe these transits or your work and experience with individuals going through them. I'm wondering if you have ever used or tried specific remedies such as the Bach Flowers, which address hopelessness at the level of the spirit as well as emotions and mood, rather than whatever is going on at the more physical level. It would be interesting to see what this effect is and if you've had any experience on this. Best regards, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 Dear Georgette, In my quick reading here and basically picking up and intruding into the emails and discussion, I missed that this seems to have started with you. As I hit 'send' your last email came in. My apologies for not including you in my response just before. Have you as well ever used a specific remedy for hopelessness in these cases? Blessings, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 Dear Patrice I have not used such remedies for Saturn's transits. I have experienced them and found them to be very subtle. Saturn is not a subtle energy. It is not uncommon for folks to use prescription medication for depression during the time when Saturn makes the tightest hits to the Moon. Most folks turn inward and find peace in self understanding. Mundane tasks like gardening or crafts are also very helpful. Saturn likes to make something tangible. Give Saturn work he finds meaningful and he is a kinder planet. I often prescribe such tasks and ask clients to email or call and let me know how it is working. I've had good results with this. Give Saturna job so the energy does not spiral inward into a black hole. Oh, any connection to nature is also very helpful. Imagine tree roots connecting you to the soil and the life-giving elements is a favorite. c - "Patrice Curry" <patricecurry <gjlist> Wednesday, November 20, 2002 11:29 AM Re: [GJ] Re The Sade Sati Discussion > Dear Mu Min and Cynthia and List, > > Have either of you used remedies specifically for hopelessness during these > Saturn transits? Hopelessness seems to a word commonly used to describe > these transits or your work and experience with individuals going through > them. > > I'm wondering if you have ever used or tried specific remedies such as the > Bach Flowers, which address hopelessness at the level of the spirit as well > as emotions and mood, rather than whatever is going on at the more physical > level. It would be interesting to see what this effect is and if you've had > any experience on this. > > Best regards, > Patrice > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2002 Report Share Posted November 20, 2002 hopelessness I experienced this while "under" Saturn (which is what we are always with Saturn, usually anyway, we're under it) In my case, the best fix was Help, from people who are not in my story, not party to my drama, who could see through it and who believed without flinching (no involvement in the story) that I could move beyond it. Hand Holding through the hard times, with healing ideas, Shamanic intervenors Just a quick thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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