Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Dear Nicholas and Cynthia, Hello, and thanks for raising some interesting astrological discussion re: Mr. Bush. At 05:11 PM 2/27/03 -0600, you wrote: Dear Nicholas and all Why do you think so many people seem to "hate" GWB? If the media is to be believed, it appears that about 50% hate and 50% respect him. I'm contemplating this as I look at the polarization around the world. This is a very good question, and brings up some important astrological points. When we consider a person who is always seen in the public, and whose image is determined based upon the persona and attributes as demonstrated in his official position, then the Arudha lagna is a more important vantage point astrologically speaking. Arudha means the "image", or the reflection of an object. That part of the person which is reflected into the public, or that image which he portrays as part of his wordily duties, is the Arudha lagna. The actual lagna is the seat of Satya, or truth, and is the real person - his tastes, intelligence, attributes, and determination. The worldly image may be a more important for the President of the United States, as we only see the Arudha - we do not see him as, perhaps, his wife or intimate friends see him. Now, in Bush's chart, the Arudha lagna is Scorpio, where he has Ketu. This is a rather strange influence for someone who carries such a powerful mundane role. In my book on the "Spiritual Dimensions of Vedic Astrology", I did a lot of research into the nature of spiritualists as portrayed through planets occupying the Arudha lagna. Very often, in charts of saints and ascetics (known ones, that is), Ketu occupies the AL, as the image is one of asceticism and detachment. But how do you reconcile Ketu in the AL for G.W. Bush? The image is rather strange, i.e. hard to figure out, and this inspires the reaction of fear in people. That which people collectively cannot put a definition to, is that his is hated or feared. This is a good reason why the man is hated, feared, or blasted so much, now even by known allies. But is he deserving of all the negative portrayals? According to Jaimini, one of the most powerful and enduring Raja-yogas involves the conjunction of the Moon and Jupiter. In this case, it is especially so, as Moon rules the lagna, and Jupiter the 9th house. This attests to the "true" person, behind the official mask of "leader of the free world." Anyway, back to the Arudha lagna: Mars also aspects the AL, as does Saturn too (by rashi drishti). Mars gives him the public image as tough guy, or one who wants to start a war. Saturn gives him the image of being slow or dull, or not so tuned in, and also as one who could inflict death as Saturn is a maraka lord. But these are influences only effecting the illusion or image of the man; the true man, is seen through the Raja-yoga involving the lagna, its lord first of all; secondly, Mercury as 12th lord, and Saturn as 8th lord, form a Vipareet Raja yoga, bring dignity to these planets, in spite of their house rulerships. VARGA CHARTS Without seeing the Navamsa and Dasamsa, especially of a world leader, we are only getting part of the picture. Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and further the levels of Sukriti or past life good karma, that got him into this position in this life. You cannot help from being very impressed with the presence of five planets (including Rahu) in the royal sign of Leo in the 10th house of his Navamsa, while 10th lord Sun is in exaltation. Venus' exaltation as the 7th lord, indicates that there is more of a favorable public opinion about him, than otherwise. 50-50 is not actually correct. The poles persist on about a 60-40 divide over war with Iraq, although opinions of his domestic policy are less than that. However, if the 7th lord of the Navamsa carries this much strength, then he will continue to be popular, especially after the war when all is said and done. In the Dasamsa chart, Mars is an exalted yogakaraka, and occupies the 7th with Jupiter. He will gain in world opinion, after all the chaos has died down. DASA PERIODS When there are equal or more planets in kendras to the ascendant, as there are to the Moon, then the Vimsottari dasa of the lagna naksatra can be used. There are equal number of planets from either vantage point in Bush's chart, and thus either method (from Moon or lagna) can be used to calculate the Vim. dasas. Now, if you look at the dasas from the lagna naksatra, the current period is of Moon/Rahu/Mars, from 2/17/03 to 3/21/03. Mars and Rahu both influence the AL, thus causing confusion around the motives behind Bush's aggression. Still, all three are in the 10th house of the Navamsa, so it can be said that Bush (however inadvertently) is part of a Dharmic or Divine process put in motion to rid the world of some very undesirable and essentially demonic elements. If the Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and these planet form a great Raja-yoga therein, how could this be simply the aggressive instincts of a cowboy from Texas? There are more subtle layers of integrity upon which we can identify the man. These should be our criteria, rather than following the herd who cannot discern the true man from his image, or the lagna from the Arudha lagna. Now, the lagna-Vimsottari dasa turns to Moon/Jupiter as of 3/21/2003. This is likely to be the approximate time when the war is over, or at least the more intense levels of fighting. Moon and Jupiter are the crux of fame, popularity, and influence in Bush's chart, in other words they bring forth the full effect of Raja yoga. You can count on his global image improving dramatically during this bhukti period, which lasts until 7/20/04. ASSASSINATION? Not likely at all. How could it happen? Gunshot would require that Mars be malefic and afflict either the ascendant, its lord, or the 8th house (preferably all three in the case of gunshot assassination, as in the case of JFK). Poison? Then Rahu would have to be in similar position, yet he is not, in exaltation in the best house for Rahu (the 11th). Fall from a high place, i.e. being pushed off a cliff? Now its getting ridiculous! Mars would have to be the sole significator for gunshot, and he is a powerful yoga-karaka in Bush's chart, not an enemy, and further makes no affliction to the lagna, its lord, its significator, or the 8th lord either. If Mars is powerful as a functional malefic, then it is possible, otherwise it is highly unlikely. CONCLUSIONS Jyotish gives us the best set of tools with which to truly define a person, his/her strengths and weakness, integrity, determination, destiny, etc. Just because the image of the person is distorted or confusing as a result of Ketu in the Arudha lagna, is not a reason to label the man in all the ways that he has been crucified with in recent months. See his integrity from the Sun in the Navamsa, the chart of Dharma. Therein, Bush's Sun is exalted. See the goodness or otherwise of his thoughts and intentions through the Moon. Moon joins Jupiter in Bush's chart, forming Raja yoga. See the purpose behind his actions - Mars is a great yogakaraka in the birth chart, Navamsa, as well as Dasamsa charts. There are so many other layers that can be portrayed too, yet I'm a bit tired at the moment. Anyway, this has been an interesting study............I'm sure there will be more in the future as well. Best wishes, Robert ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and, http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or Ph: 541.318.0248 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Dear Robert Thanks for your insights into George Bush's chart . I think with time we will get a clearer picture of George W Bush . There is a certain irony that if we go back 60 years it was Europe that wanted the US to intervene in international affairs whilst the US persued a policy of "containment ". Appalled by atrocities in China Roosevelt had a policy of denying Japan access to raw materials which subsequently led to the surprise attack at Pearl Harbour . Despite the fact that it was Japan that attacked the US the US then commited 80 per cent of it's miliatry resources to the liberation of Europe . There are an enormous number of plusses on the US ledger . Regards Nicholas - Robert A. Koch gjlist Friday, February 28, 2003 4:22 PM [GJ] G W Bush - the true man vs. his image Dear Nicholas and Cynthia, Hello, and thanks for raising some interesting astrological discussion re: Mr. Bush. At 05:11 PM 2/27/03 -0600, you wrote: Dear Nicholas and allWhy do you think so many people seem to "hate" GWB? If the media is to bebelieved, it appears that about 50% hate and 50% respect him. I'mcontemplating this as I look at the polarization around the world.This is a very good question, and brings up some important astrological points. When we consider a person who is always seen in the public, and whose image is determined based upon the persona and attributes as demonstrated in his official position, then the Arudha lagna is a more important vantage point astrologically speaking. Arudha means the "image", or the reflection of an object. That part of the person which is reflected into the public, or that image which he portrays as part of his wordily duties, is the Arudha lagna. The actual lagna is the seat of Satya, or truth, and is the real person - his tastes, intelligence, attributes, and determination. The worldly image may be a more important for the President of the United States, as we only see the Arudha - we do not see him as, perhaps, his wife or intimate friends see him. Now, in Bush's chart, the Arudha lagna is Scorpio, where he has Ketu. This is a rather strange influence for someone who carries such a powerful mundane role. In my book on the "Spiritual Dimensions of Vedic Astrology", I did a lot of research into the nature of spiritualists as portrayed through planets occupying the Arudha lagna. Very often, in charts of saints and ascetics (known ones, that is), Ketu occupies the AL, as the image is one of asceticism and detachment. But how do you reconcile Ketu in the AL for G.W. Bush? The image is rather strange, i.e. hard to figure out, and this inspires the reaction of fear in people. That which people collectively cannot put a definition to, is that his is hated or feared. This is a good reason why the man is hated, feared, or blasted so much, now even by known allies. But is he deserving of all the negative portrayals? According to Jaimini, one of the most powerful and enduring Raja-yogas involves the conjunction of the Moon and Jupiter. In this case, it is especially so, as Moon rules the lagna, and Jupiter the 9th house. This attests to the "true" person, behind the official mask of "leader of the free world." Anyway, back to the Arudha lagna: Mars also aspects the AL, as does Saturn too (by rashi drishti). Mars gives him the public image as tough guy, or one who wants to start a war. Saturn gives him the image of being slow or dull, or not so tuned in, and also as one who could inflict death as Saturn is a maraka lord. But these are influences only effecting the illusion or image of the man; the true man, is seen through the Raja-yoga involving the lagna, its lord first of all; secondly, Mercury as 12th lord, and Saturn as 8th lord, form a Vipareet Raja yoga, bring dignity to these planets, in spite of their house rulerships. VARGA CHARTSWithout seeing the Navamsa and Dasamsa, especially of a world leader, we are only getting part of the picture. Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and further the levels of Sukriti or past life good karma, that got him into this position in this life. You cannot help from being very impressed with the presence of five planets (including Rahu) in the royal sign of Leo in the 10th house of his Navamsa, while 10th lord Sun is in exaltation. Venus' exaltation as the 7th lord, indicates that there is more of a favorable public opinion about him, than otherwise. 50-50 is not actually correct. The poles persist on about a 60-40 divide over war with Iraq, although opinions of his domestic policy are less than that. However, if the 7th lord of the Navamsa carries this much strength, then he will continue to be popular, especially after the war when all is said and done. In the Dasamsa chart, Mars is an exalted yogakaraka, and occupies the 7th with Jupiter. He will gain in world opinion, after all the chaos has died down. DASA PERIODSWhen there are equal or more planets in kendras to the ascendant, as there are to the Moon, then the Vimsottari dasa of the lagna naksatra can be used. There are equal number of planets from either vantage point in Bush's chart, and thus either method (from Moon or lagna) can be used to calculate the Vim. dasas. Now, if you look at the dasas from the lagna naksatra, the current period is of Moon/Rahu/Mars, from 2/17/03 to 3/21/03. Mars and Rahu both influence the AL, thus causing confusion around the motives behind Bush's aggression. Still, all three are in the 10th house of the Navamsa, so it can be said that Bush (however inadvertently) is part of a Dharmic or Divine process put in motion to rid the world of some very undesirable and essentially demonic elements. If the Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and these planet form a great Raja-yoga therein, how could this be simply the aggressive instincts of a cowboy from Texas? There are more subtle layers of integrity upon which we can identify the man. These should be our criteria, rather than following the herd who cannot discern the true man from his image, or the lagna from the Arudha lagna. Now, the lagna-Vimsottari dasa turns to Moon/Jupiter as of 3/21/2003. This is likely to be the approximate time when the war is over, or at least the more intense levels of fighting. Moon and Jupiter are the crux of fame, popularity, and influence in Bush's chart, in other words they bring forth the full effect of Raja yoga. You can count on his global image improving dramatically during this bhukti period, which lasts until 7/20/04. ASSASSINATION? Not likely at all. How could it happen? Gunshot would require that Mars be malefic and afflict either the ascendant, its lord, or the 8th house (preferably all three in the case of gunshot assassination, as in the case of JFK). Poison? Then Rahu would have to be in similar position, yet he is not, in exaltation in the best house for Rahu (the 11th). Fall from a high place, i.e. being pushed off a cliff? Now its getting ridiculous! Mars would have to be the sole significator for gunshot, and he is a powerful yoga-karaka in Bush's chart, not an enemy, and further makes no affliction to the lagna, its lord, its significator, or the 8th lord either. If Mars is powerful as a functional malefic, then it is possible, otherwise it is highly unlikely. CONCLUSIONSJyotish gives us the best set of tools with which to truly define a person, his/her strengths and weakness, integrity, determination, destiny, etc. Just because the image of the person is distorted or confusing as a result of Ketu in the Arudha lagna, is not a reason to label the man in all the ways that he has been crucified with in recent months. See his integrity from the Sun in the Navamsa, the chart of Dharma. Therein, Bush's Sun is exalted. See the goodness or otherwise of his thoughts and intentions through the Moon. Moon joins Jupiter in Bush's chart, forming Raja yoga. See the purpose behind his actions - Mars is a great yogakaraka in the birth chart, Navamsa, as well as Dasamsa charts. There are so many other layers that can be portrayed too, yet I'm a bit tired at the moment. Anyway, this has been an interesting study............I'm sure there will be more in the future as well. Best wishes,Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Dear Robert, 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Thank you very much for this analysis- 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">It’s always good to see Jyotish rules applied consistently, that you provided in your analysis. Meaningful coincidences among varga charts, that I’ve noticed too, so far, are convincing proof that ONE indeed is behing everything. The most important value of Jyotish, as I perceive, is that it gives ‘substance’, material proof, to our faith. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">When you look how good Jyotishi with scientific strictness apply the rule that Life has to prove events, even the most suspicious ones are won over, the most scientific mind satisfied. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Your analysis in one more contribution in that direction in most part- 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">But even you whom we know to be devoted to truth, entered your conviction in interpretation, 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">And risked to be one-sided, or maybe that’s just my impression. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">On that and other issues I write bellow 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> Dear Nicholas and Cynthia, Hello, and thanks for raising some interesting astrological discussion re: Mr. Bush. At 05:11 PM 2/27/03 -0600, you wrote: line-break"> Dear Nicholas and all Why do you think so many people seem to "hate" GWB? If the media is to be believed, it appears that about 50% hate and 50% respect him. I'm contemplating this as I look at the polarization around the world. 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> This is a very good question, and brings up some important astrological points. When we consider a person who is always seen in the public, and whose image is determined based upon the persona and attributes as demonstrated in his official position, then the Arudha lagna is a more important vantage point astrologically speaking. Arudha means the "image", or the reflection of an object. That part of the person which is reflected into the public, or that image which he portrays as part of his wordily duties, is the Arudha lagna. The actual lagna is the seat of Satya, or truth, and is the real person - his tastes, intelligence, attributes, and determination. The worldly image may be a more important for the President of the United States, as we only see the Arudha - we do not see him as, perhaps, his wife or intimate friends see him. Now, in Bush's chart, the Arudha lagna is Scorpio, where he has Ketu. This is a rather strange influence for someone who carries such a powerful mundane role. In my book on the "Spiritual Dimensions of Vedic Astrology", I did a lot of research into the nature of spiritualists as portrayed through planets occupying the Arudha lagna. Very often, in charts of saints and ascetics (known ones, that is), Ketu occupies the AL, as the image is one of asceticism and detachment. But how do you reconcile Ketu in the AL for G.W. Bush? The image is rather strange, i.e. hard to figure out, and this inspires the reaction of fear in people. That which people collectively cannot put a definition to, is that his is hated or feared. This is a good reason why the man is hated, feared, or blasted so much, now even by known allies. He’s not the saint obviously- /Neither his chart, as I see it- would allow that/ That his image is strange, ‘diffused’- it does match. 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> But is he deserving of all the negative portrayals? According to Jaimini, one of the most powerful and enduring Raja-yogas involves the conjunction of the Moon and Jupiter. In this case, it is especially so, as Moon rules the lagna, and Jupiter the 9th house. This attests to the "true" person, behind the official mask of "leader of the free world." I don’t understand this ‘deserving’- Robert, wouldn’t you expect from this Raja-Yoga and Moon-Jupiter contact to be manifested in more charismatic appearance, than it’s actually the case. And since we haven’t seen that would it be correct path of thinking if I suspect ‘ italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal">that something more prominent in his chart prevents-obstructs this from fully manifesting?’ In his appearance and possibly in OTHER ways, as well /Goodness Assumption/ Jup-Moon is impressive in his chart- but where is that in his life? As per what we know. So what that obstruction would be- I’d say, let’s have a look at that Saturn /but on that you wrote bellow/ 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> Anyway, back to the Arudha lagna: Mars also aspects the AL, as does Saturn too (by rashi drishti). Mars gives him the public image as tough guy, or one who wants to start a war. Saturn gives him the image of being slow or dull, or not so tuned in, and also as one who could inflict death as Saturn is a maraka lord. But these are influences only effecting the illusion or image of the man; the true man, is seen through the Raja-yoga involving the lagna, its lord first of all; secondly, Mercury as 12th lord, and Saturn as 8th lord, form a Vipareet Raja yoga, bring dignity to these planets, in spite of their house rulerships. Here, it seems to me, you invite Vipareet Raya yoga to support your conviction. You say that VRY bring dignity to these planets, and that’s most likely helping this unhappy/my conviction/ man survive and even be where he is- but it doesn’t annul ate basic malefic nature of Saturn, primarily, is that correct? 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> VARGA CHARTS Without seeing the Navamsa and Dasamsa, especially of a world leader, we are only getting part of the picture. Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and further the levels of Sukriti or past life good karma, that got him into this position in this life. You cannot help from being very impressed with the presence of five planets (including Rahu) in the royal sign of Leo in the 10th house of his Navamsa, while 10th lord Sun is in exaltation. Well, he’s the President of the most powerful country in the world- impressive too- so, its confirmed by these. 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">Venus' exaltation as the 7th lord, indicates that there is more of a favorable public opinion about him, than otherwise. 50-50 is not actually correct. The poles persist on about a 60-40 divide over war with Iraq, although opinions of his domestic policy are less than that. However, if the 7th lord of the Navamsa carries this much strength, then he will continue to be popular, especially after the war when all is said and done. In the Dasamsa chart, Mars is an exalted yogakaraka, and occupies the 7th with Jupiter. He will gain in world opinion, after all the chaos has died down. One would expect that. 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">DASA PERIODS When there are equal or more planets in kendras to the ascendant, as there are to the Moon, then the Vimsottari dasa of the lagna naksatra can be used. There are equal number of planets from either vantage point in Bush's chart, and thus either method (from Moon or lagna) can be used to calculate the Vim. dasas. Now, if you look at the dasas from the lagna naksatra, the current period is of Moon/Rahu/Mars, from 2/17/03 to 3/21/03. Mars and Rahu both influence the AL, thus causing confusion around the motives behind Bush's aggression. Still, all three are in the 10th house of the Navamsa, so it can be said that Bush (however inadvertently) is part of a Dharmic or Divine process put in motion to rid the world of some very undesirable and essentially demonic elements. It’s hard for me to digest- /Not-astro note- considering the number of wars fought against ‘demons’ this world be inhabited by saints only. And whose definition on demon counts- OH NO! / 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> If the Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and these planet form a great Raja-yoga therein, how could this be simply the aggressive instincts of a cowboy from Texas? There are more subtle layers of integrity upon which we can identify the man. These should be our criteria, rather than following the herd who cannot discern the true man from his image, or the lagna from the Arudha lagna. Where did you get that from- who said that Bush wants the war just because he’s an aggressive cowboy- that would be to naïve What about Rahu in 10th in nine-harmonic chart as being unscrupulous urge – and family karma continuation which /Raya yoga/ is to be satisfied in this life of a native /instead of punished. Besides, that’s Bush’s chart not of the ‘demons’-they would have different, for sure, by virtue of the fact that they are considered demons Robert, would that be in accordance with jyotish to look at the same thing this way? Or another? 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">Now, the lagna-Vimsottari dasa turns to Moon/Jupiter as of 3/21/2003. This is likely to be the approximate time when the war is over, or at least the more intense levels of fighting. Moon and Jupiter are the crux of fame, popularity, and influence in Bush's chart, in other words they bring forth the full effect of Raja yoga. I.E- in his life- as above 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:6.0pt">You can count on his global image improving dramatically during this bhukti period, which lasts until 7/20/04. ASSASSINATION? Not likely at all. How could it happen? Gunshot would require that Mars be malefic and afflict either the ascendant, its lord, or the 8th house (preferably all three in the case of gunshot assassination, as in the case of JFK). Poison? Then Rahu would have to be in similar position, yet he is not, in exaltation in the best house for Rahu (the 11th). Fall from a high place, i.e. being pushed off a cliff? Now its getting ridiculous! Mars would have to be the sole significator for gunshot, and he is a powerful yoga-karaka in Bush's chart, not an enemy, and further makes no affliction to the lagna, its lord, its significator, or the 8th lord either. If Mars is powerful as a functional malefic, then it is possible, otherwise it is highly unlikely. CONCLUSIONS Jyotish gives us the best set of tools with which to truly define a person, his/her strengths and weakness, integrity, determination, destiny, etc. Just because the image of the person is distorted or confusing as a result of Ketu in the Arudha lagna, is not a reason to label the man in all the ways that he has been crucified with in recent months. See his integrity from the Sun in the Navamsa, the chart of Dharma. Therein, Bush's Sun is exalted. See the goodness or otherwise of his thoughts and intentions through the Moon. Moon joins Jupiter in Bush's chart, forming Raja yoga. See the purpose behind his actions - Mars is a great yogakaraka in the birth chart, Navamsa, as well as Dasamsa charts. There are so many other layers that can be portrayed too, yet I'm a bit tired at the moment. Anyway, this has been an interesting study............I'm sure there will be more in the future as well. line-break"> One more thing I’d like to ask- this man suffered serious addiction problems and that’s also part of his personality-and must be in the chart As we know we have ‘sober’ and ‘wet’ alcoholics – PERSONALITY is the same- What would be the substitute for actual drugs for this man? 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in;text-indent:6.0pt"> Best wishes, Robert Thank you Robert for posting this- it sharpens our tools, ourselves included. Anna ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and, http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or Ph: 541.318.0248 font-family:"Courier New""> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat : gjlist- Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release 2/24/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release 2/24/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Dear Robert This is so clearly put and erudite that Every part of my brain is engaged. Dear Nicholas and allWhy do you think so many people seem to "hate" GWB? If the media is to bebelieved, it appears that about 50% hate and 50% respect him. I'mcontemplating this as I look at the polarization around the world. This is a very good question, and brings up some important astrological points. When we consider a person who is always seen in the public, and whose image is determined based upon the persona and attributes as demonstrated in his official position, then the Arudha lagna is a more important vantage point astrologically speaking. Arudha means the "image", or the reflection of an object. That part of the person which is reflected into the public, or that image which he portrays as part of his wordily duties, is the Arudha lagna. The actual lagna is the seat of Satya, or truth, and is the real person - his tastes, intelligence, attributes, and determination. The worldly image may be a more important for the President of the United States, as we only see the Arudha - we do not see him as, perhaps, his wife or intimate friends see him. Now, in Bush's chart, the Arudha lagna is Scorpio, where he has Ketu. This is a rather strange influence for someone who carries such a powerful mundane role. In my book on the "Spiritual Dimensions of Vedic Astrology", I did a lot of research into the nature of spiritualists as portrayed through planets occupying the Arudha lagna. Very often, in charts of saints and ascetics (known ones, that is), Ketu occupies the AL, as the image is one of asceticism and detachment. But how do you reconcile Ketu in the AL for G.W. Bush? The image is rather strange, i.e. hard to figure out, and this inspires the reaction of fear in people. That which people collectively cannot put a definition to, is that his is hated or feared. This is a good reason why the man is hated, feared, or blasted so much, now even by known allies. This makes a great deal of sense. Clients with Ketu on the rashi lagna often struggle with their "image" or how they are perceived. I think of Jackie Kennedy Onassis with thos big black sunglasses and the world still wondering why she did some of the things she did in her life, Would the Ketu influence be even more pointed with the Kala Sarpa birth chart? So you have any thoughts about transiting Saturn station on his Rahu...would this carry over to a Saturn Rahu influence on the 7th house of the ARudha lagna chart?But is he deserving of all the negative portrayals? According to Jaimini, one of the most powerful and enduring Raja-yogas involves the conjunction of the Moon and Jupiter. In this case, it is especially so, as Moon rules the lagna, and Jupiter the 9th house. This attests to the "true" person, behind the official mask of "leader of the free world." This is indeed quite a powerful yoga. If you simply see it as lord of the 9th father /advisers /luck with with the lord of the 1st it offers much opportunity. Then we see it in the navamsa with exalted Venus. THis suggests that he is a good guy on the inside. I note too that the SAturn station is triggering Venus While Uranus the unpredictable planet triggers SAturn, order and structre. HE is running the SAturn, Rahu Venus period. He does have Jupiter station on this lagna on April 4th. THis suggests portection and increased popularity.Anyway, back to the Arudha lagna: Mars also aspects the AL, as does Saturn too (by rashi drishti). Mars gives him the public image as tough guy, or one who wants to start a war. Saturn gives him the image of being slow or dull, or not so tuned in, and also as one who could inflict death as Saturn is a maraka lord. But these are influences only effecting the illusion or image of the man; the true man, is seen through the Raja-yoga involving the lagna, its lord first of all; secondly, Mercury as 12th lord, and Saturn as 8th lord, form a Vipareet Raja yoga, bring dignity to these planets, in spite of their house rulerships. VARGA CHARTSWithout seeing the Navamsa and Dasamsa, especially of a world leader, we are only getting part of the picture. Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and further the levels of Sukriti or past life good karma, that got him into this position in this life. You cannot help from being very impressed with the presence of five planets (including Rahu) in the royal sign of Leo in the 10th house of his Navamsa, while 10th lord Sun is in exaltation. Venus' exaltation as the 7th lord, indicates that there is more of a favorable public opinion about him, than otherwise. 50-50 is not actually correct. The poles persist on about a 60-40 divide over war with Iraq, although opinions of his domestic policy are less than that. However, if the 7th lord of the Navamsa carries this much strength, then he will continue to be popular, especially after the war when all is said and done. In the Dasamsa chart, Mars is an exalted yogakaraka, and occupies the 7th with Jupiter. He will gain in world opinion, after all the chaos has died down. DASA PERIODSWhen there are equal or more planets in kendras to the ascendant, as there are to the Moon, then the Vimsottari dasa of the lagna naksatra can be used. There are equal number of planets from either vantage point in Bush's chart, and thus either method (from Moon or lagna) can be used to calculate the Vim. dasas. Now, if you look at the dasas from the lagna naksatra, the current period is of Moon/Rahu/Mars, from 2/17/03 to 3/21/03. Mars and Rahu both influence the AL, thus causing confusion around the motives behind Bush's aggression. Still, all three are in the 10th house of the Navamsa, so it can be said that Bush (however inadvertently) is part of a Dharmic or Divine process put in motion to rid the world of some very undesirable and essentially demonic elements. If the Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and these planet form a great Raja-yoga therein, how could this be simply the aggressive instincts of a cowboy from Texas? There are more subtle layers of integrity upon which we can identify the man. These should be our criteria, rather than following the herd who cannot discern the true man from his image, or the lagna from the Arudha lagna. Now, the lagna-Vimsottari dasa turns to Moon/Jupiter as of 3/21/2003. This is likely to be the approximate time when the war is over, or at least the more intense levels of fighting. Moon and Jupiter are the crux of fame, popularity, and influence in Bush's chart, in other words they bring forth the full effect of Raja yoga. You can count on his global image improving dramatically during this bhukti period, which lasts until 7/20/04. I show him running SAturn Rahu until november. WHat time of birth are you using? I have 7:26am EDT on 6th of July 1946ASSASSINATION? Not likely at all. How could it happen? Gunshot would require that Mars be malefic and afflict either the ascendant, its lord, or the 8th house (preferably all three in the case of gunshot assassination, as in the case of JFK). Poison? Then Rahu would have to be in similar position, yet he is not, in exaltation in the best house for Rahu (the 11th). Fall from a high place, i.e. being pushed off a cliff? Now its getting ridiculous! Mars would have to be the sole significator for gunshot, and he is a powerful yoga-karaka in Bush's chart, not an enemy, and further makes no affliction to the lagna, its lord, its significator, or the 8th lord either. If Mars is powerful as a functional malefic, then it is possible, otherwise it is highly unlikely. CONCLUSIONSJyotish gives us the best set of tools with which to truly define a person, his/her strengths and weakness, integrity, determination, destiny, etc. Just because the image of the person is distorted or confusing as a result of Ketu in the Arudha lagna, is not a reason to label the man in all the ways that he has been crucified with in recent months. See his integrity from the Sun in the Navamsa, the chart of Dharma. Therein, Bush's Sun is exalted. See the goodness or otherwise of his thoughts and intentions through the Moon. Moon joins Jupiter in Bush's chart, forming Raja yoga. See the purpose behind his actions - Mars is a great yogakaraka in the birth chart, Navamsa, as well as Dasamsa charts. There are so many other layers that can be portrayed too, yet I'm a bit tired at the moment. Anyway, this has been an interesting study............I'm sure there will be more in the future as well. Best wishes,Robert THank you again. I must learn about arudha lagna! The connection with Ketu makes so much sense. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and, http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or Ph: 541.318.0248Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat SatTo , send an email to: gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Rob, Nick, Cynthia, All, Good discussion on GWB. Here are my thoughts. As many of you know, I do not use the Dasas as many often do; I use Asc position over the Moon's ain all cases. Accoding to that, as well as the Sade Sati transit in progress, GWB has to watch his back. I don't have the chart in front of me right now, but I think he's running Saturn Dasa, which is not good for him. Have to check but if memory serves, that is the case. Bush's chart shwos his two sides, as well as his theft of the 2000 elections. The KSY that everyone mentions is the linchpin in the entire chart, as is the prescence of SAturn in the Asc, ruling the 8tth house of intrigues and scandals. Of course, the 8th also represents assassinations, and we know that there has already been attempts on his life, going back to Sep 11. Saf-de Sati transits are almost always profound times of loss in one's life. Often times, it can represent the loss of a praent, and it is certainly possible that GWB could lose his own father or mother under it. It is also possible that he could lose his own life, and even if it isn't literally, politically. It is extremely difficult to mount anything successful under a Sade Sati transit, and he has this in progress over his Asc; at the time of Sep 11, it hadn't started, but has since. As GWB's chart represents the USA as a whole, we can see the profound economic losses everyone here is undergoing at this time, and it is not likely to get much better. Note the transit of Jupiter going thru Bush';s ASc, it barely registers a blip on the radar screen. SS says it all. Your serve... Salaam, Mu ===== Mu'Min M. Bey Western and Vedic Astrologer Priority Email: jedimu11 AOL IM Screen Name: JediMu 267-467-5158 Join the Pan Astrological Forum, Where Freedom in Astrological Thought Lives! Just send a blank email to panastroforum- Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Dear Mu, : Note the transit of Jupiter going thru Bush';s ASc, it barely registers a blip on the radar screen. SS says it all. I agree - SS can be a real hurricane. Sateesh. ======== - "Mu'Min Bey" <mumin_bey <gjlist> Friday, February 28, 2003 5:40 PM Re: [GJ] G W Bush - the true man vs. his image : Note the transit of Jupiter going thru Bush';s ASc, it barely registers a blip on the radar screen. SS says it all. : : Your serve... : : Salaam, : Mu --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release 25/02/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Hi Mu Glad to see you here. I'm wondering about the Sade SAti for Bush. Did I miss something...very possible, Saturn stationed on my Mars and I'm a little dim...I have W's Moon at 23 Virgo. How can he be in SS? I will say that I have had a feeling that W will not have a second term. The transits look good for him in 2004, and I could be totally wacked, but I have a feeling that a 3rd party candidate will rise out of the polarized political mess. I kept this to myself until one day I was chatting with a client after her session. She had recently returned from another visit with Juan of God in Brazil. While there she had the same "dream." Thought I'd throw that in. Now, I'll drag my Saturn tired fingers away from the computer before I really screw something up. March 4th is the final hit. If the gods are kind...Saturn is my "friend"...I'll be lighter and brighter when he makes just one minute of arc passed the exact hit. IT worked the last 2 times. Oh, I guess griping is a Saturn thing. But for folks with only Jupiter transits...mea culpa mea culpa smiles c - "Mu'Min Bey" <mumin_bey <gjlist> Friday, February 28, 2003 11:40 AM Re: [GJ] G W Bush - the true man vs. his image > Rob, Nick, Cynthia, All, > > Good discussion on GWB. Here are my thoughts. > > As many of you know, I do not use the Dasas as many > often do; I use Asc position over the Moon's ain all > cases. Accoding to that, as well as the Sade Sati > transit in progress, GWB has to watch his back. I > don't have the chart in front of me right now, but I > think he's running Saturn Dasa, which is not good for > him. Have to check but if memory serves, that is the > case. > > Bush's chart shwos his two sides, as well as his theft > of the 2000 elections. The KSY that everyone mentions > is the linchpin in the entire chart, as is the > prescence of SAturn in the Asc, ruling the 8tth house > of intrigues and scandals. Of course, the 8th also > represents assassinations, and we know that there has > already been attempts on his life, going back to Sep > 11. > > Saf-de Sati transits are almost always profound times > of loss in one's life. Often times, it can represent > the loss of a praent, and it is certainly possible > that GWB could lose his own father or mother under it. > It is also possible that he could lose his own life, > and even if it isn't literally, politically. It is > extremely difficult to mount anything successful under > a Sade Sati transit, and he has this in progress over > his Asc; at the time of Sep 11, it hadn't started, but > has since. As GWB's chart represents the USA as a > whole, we can see the profound economic losses > everyone here is undergoing at this time, and it is > not likely to get much better. Note the transit of > Jupiter going thru Bush';s ASc, it barely registers a > blip on the radar screen. SS says it all. > > Your serve... > > Salaam, > Mu > > > > ===== > Mu'Min M. Bey > Western and Vedic Astrologer > Priority Email: jedimu11 > AOL IM Screen Name: JediMu > 267-467-5158 > Join the Pan Astrological Forum, Where Freedom in Astrological Thought Lives! Just send a blank email to panastroforum- > > > > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes./ > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > > Your use of is subject to > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Dear Anna, Thank you for your responses, and your supportive words as well. Let me answer by quoting you first: At 05:20 AM 2/28/03 -0500, you wrote: But even you whom we know to be devoted to truth, entered your conviction in interpretation, And risked to be one-sided, or maybe that s just my impression. Thank you for your gentle prodding. Maintaining the strict practice of complete objectivity is a challenge, I think you'd agree. Still, if the rules and principles of Jyotish are followed, one invariably leaves his/her bias at the door. Lets see then what you have to say: Anna: /Neither his chart, as I see it- would allow that/ That his image is strange, diffused - it does match. > He s not the saint obviously- RK: How do you know? He does not wear the robes of a holy man, and his profession is even less holy. However, if the lord of the 9th joins the lord of the ascendant, can we not say at least that he is a religious man, or that he has some faith? Further, the Kala-Amrta yoga in his chart causes all the planets to move toward Ketu. Do you not get the hints that his soul is perhaps a bit more evolved than the mystique around the Arudha lagna would suggest? Answer objectively please. Finally, according to Jaimini, Ketu being in the 12th from Karakamsa lagna (the sign of the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa chart), brings Moksha. Now, I cannot assume anything on my own. However, there are definite sutras stating this, and Bush has it in his chart. You have to look deeper to see the true karmic pattern underlying the person. But is he deserving of all the negative portrayals? According to Jaimini, one of the most powerful and enduring Raja-yogas involves the conjunction of the Moon and Jupiter. In this case, it is especially so, as Moon rules the lagna, and Jupiter the 9th house. This attests to the "true" person, behind the official mask of "leader of the free world." Anna: I don t understand this deserving - Robert, wouldn t you expect from this Raja-Yoga and Moon-Jupiter contact to be manifested in more charismatic appearance, than it s actually the case. And since we haven t seen that would it be correct path of thinking if I suspect that something more prominent in his chart prevents-obstructs this from fully manifesting? In his appearance and possibly in OTHER ways, as well /Goodness Assumption/ Jup-Moon is impressive in his chart- but where is that in his life? As per what we know. So what that obstruction would be- I d say, let s have a look at that Saturn /but on that you wrote bellow/ RK: It depends on what you call "Charismatic". No, he doesn't have the charisma of a Bill Clinton, or perhaps of David Letterman. But if you put him in the arena in which he is strongest, i.e. being the first president in history to rise to the call of attacks directly on Continental US soil, you have to say that he has a lot of charisma. Did you see his speech after the 9/11 attacks, or the speech following the Columbia space shuttle disaster? If it is a matter of protecting his country, the duties for which he is dedicated as president, he does indeed have integrity and shows it in his speeches. Otherwise, it is very hard to be a "popular" president, with Saturn on the ascendant, and the mysterious or hard to define image of Ketu in the Arudha lagna. Anyway, back to the Arudha lagna: Mars also aspects the AL, as does Saturn too (by rashi drishti). Mars gives him the public image as tough guy, or one who wants to start a war. Saturn gives him the image of being slow or dull, or not so tuned in, and also as one who could inflict death as Saturn is a maraka lord. But these are influences only effecting the illusion or image of the man; the true man, is seen through the Raja-yoga involving the lagna, its lord first of all; secondly, Mercury as 12th lord, and Saturn as 8th lord, form a Vipareet Raja yoga, bring dignity to these planets, in spite of their house rulerships. Anna: Here, it seems to me, you invite Vipareet Raya yoga to support your conviction. You say that VRY bring dignity to these planets, and that s most likely helping this unhappy/my conviction/ man survive and even be where he is- but it doesn t annul ate basic malefic nature of Saturn, primarily, is that correct? RK: No, that is not correct. Vipreet Raja-yoga is only one angle from which to view/understand Saturn/Venus/Mercury in Bush's chart. The clue is in Parasara's advice to view the planetary positions/yogas from the lagna, the Moon, as well as the ascendant. The Moon is the significator for the Arudha lagna, and thus the image, i.e. statesmanship, leadership as seen in the eyes of the world, is seen from the Moon lagna. His physical or outer persona, and combinations underlying presidential duties, or other purposes, is seen from the lagna. The Atma, or soul of the person, is seen from the Sun lagna. Now, if you view those three planets including Saturn, Venus, and Mercury from the Moon, they form a powerful Raja-yoga wherein Saturn rules the 5th, Venus the 9th, and Mercury the 1st and 10th. If you view them from the Sun, Saturn rules the 9th, Venus the 5th, and Mercury the 1st and 4th. Those planets respectively fall in the 1st, 11th, and 2nd from the lagna, the Moon, and the Sun respectively. Herein you get a much different idea of power, fame, and influence, in addition to great wealth (indeed Bush had become a multi-millionaire on his own efforts, prior to entering the White House) than the deeply maligned Saturn rising would suggest. How does the man become the leader of the most powerful country in the world if he is the unhappy man struggling to survive that you describe? Now Anna, is that your personal bias, or are you seeing the astrological components from all angles objectively? the dasas from the lagna naksatra, the current period is of Moon/Rahu/Mars, from 2/17/03 to 3/21/03. Mars and Rahu both influence the AL, thus causing confusion around the motives behind Bush's aggression. Still, all three are in the 10th house of the Navamsa, so it can be said that Bush (however inadvertently) is part of a Dharmic or Divine process put in motion to rid the world of some very undesirable and essentially demonic elements. Anna: It s hard for me to digest- /Not-astro note- considering the number of wars fought against demons this world be inhabited by saints only. And whose definition on demon counts- OH NO! / RK: Who said anything about demons? I agree, that word does raise unfair characterizations, as well as fears and phobias. However, if the word could be applied to someone we know, I think Saddam Hussein fits the descriptions pretty well. Anyway, back to the astrology: I agree, that who am I to say whether or not something is part of a Divine or Dharmic process? Then again, is not everything part of a Divine process, while we are all puppets in the hands of the Creator? Did you know that one of the most respected spiritual treatises of all times, viz. the Bhagavad-gita, was spoken on a battlefield? Why are wars not part of the Divine process? Everyone wants peace, as do I. Isn't it ironical then, that there was never a period of peace in the history of the world that did not come as a result of war? And if war precipitates peace, is it then also not part of a Divine process? and are those whose destiny puts them in a position to enact war as leaders of countries not part of that process? ATMAKARAKA Anyway, my point was, that the Navamsa is the chart of Dharma. Further, the Atmakaraka planet - viz. the one attaining the highest degrees in its sign - is the most important one in the Navamsa to determine the level of dharma or the spiritual process underlying the outward, official duties of the President. Bush's AK is Venus, and is exalted in the 5th house of the Navamsa, while 5th and 9th lords join the lagna lord in the 10th. You'll never see a Navamsa chart this powerful in very many lifetimes. Now can you say that his works are not part of a Divine process? Do we not unfairly judge people based on his physical and outer persona, and also based upon those things that we do not know about him? How much of our belief systems are based upon impressions and conditioning? This is where we leave bias at the door, and rely *strictly* on the principles of Jyotish. Anna: If the Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and these planet form a great Raja-yoga therein, how could this be simply the aggressive instincts of a cowboy from Texas? There are more subtle layers of integrity upon which we can identify the man. These should be our criteria, rather than following the herd who cannot discern the true man from his image, or the lagna from the Arudha lagna. Where did you get that from- who said that Bush wants the war just because he s an aggressive cowboy- that would be to naïve RK: I agree, yet some people offer up these kinds of criticisms. He was maligned in the early going, just because he wore cowboy boots and hat in the White House a couple of times. So you see, people avoid his Arudha, because Ketu stands at the door and leaves them completely confused. People do not know how to associate Ketu with a worldly image - this is the crux of the problem. Next, the reaction is fear, as I went into yesterday, and that's the reason why he is judged the way he is. This is why teaching, practicing, and spreading the knowledge of Jyotish is a great and important mission. Without it, the masses are left in the dark. Anna: What about Rahu in 10th in nine-harmonic chart as being unscrupulous urge and family karma continuation which /Raya yoga/ is to be satisfied in this life of a native /instead of punished. Besides, that s Bush s chart not of the demons -they would have different, for sure, by virtue of the fact that they are considered demons Robert, would that be in accordance with jyotish to look at the same thing this way? Or another? Rahu is very important in the charts of world leaders. If it is in a kendra (the most important of which is the 10th house) with strong benefics as lords of trinal houses, Moon and Jupiter particularly, then Rahu enhances the magnitude of the Raja yoga. Look at the three most vital and important varga charts for a world leader: They are the Navamsa, the Dasamsa, and the Panchamsa (5th harmonic chart). In all three of those charts in Bush's case, Rahu is in very powerful positions: In the rashi chart, he is in the 11th/exalted; in Navamsa, he is in the 10th in company with strong benefics; in the Dasamsa, he is in the 3rd in his Moolatrikona sign of Virgo; and in the D-5, he is in the 9th also in company with Jupiter and Venus. Rahu herein is strongly contribute to his having the power to be the leader of the free world. Coincidentally, Ketu is in the Arudha lagna of the Navamsa chart too (Aquarius)........now this is really getting interesting. Regarding the Panchamsa: This chart is very important for presidents and leaders, as it brings the themes and symbolism of Leo fully into the pattern of the persons's karma. Parasara and Jaimini both say, that even there is even one strong planet in the Panchamsa, the individual has great leadership power. Now, in Bush's D-5, there is a Dharma-karmadhipati yoga, i.e. exchange of 9th and 10th lords, while lagna lord is involved. There are some flaws there, however, yet the one dharma yoga suffices to bring this man to the top of the heap so far as worldly power goes. ASSASSINATION? Not likely at all. How could it happen? Gunshot would require that Mars be malefic and afflict either the ascendant, its lord, or the 8th house (preferably all three in the case of gunshot assassination, as in the case of JFK). Poison? Then Rahu would have to be in similar position, yet he is not, in exaltation in the best house for Rahu (the 11th). Fall from a high place, i.e. being pushed off a cliff? Now its getting ridiculous! Mars would have to be the sole significator for gunshot, and he is a powerful yoga-karaka in Bush's chart, not an enemy, and further makes no affliction to the lagna, its lord, its significator, or the 8th lord either. If Mars is powerful as a functional malefic, then it is possible, otherwise it is highly unlikely. Anna: One more thing I d like to ask- this man suffered serious addiction problems and that s also part of his personality-and must be in the chart As we know we have sober and wet alcoholics PERSONALITY is the same- What would be the substitute for actual drugs for this man? RK: First of all, you will be hard pressed to find any president anywhere who *isn't* addicted to something! I'm just getting sick and tired of seeing Saddam on TV on one of his Iraqi sponsored photo ops., smoking that cigar! What then to speak of Winston Churchill........ Anyway, so far as sober and wet alcoholics: That is probably true, that the personality flaw persists in spite of sobriety. But is that a disqualification? From what I've seen, fully recovered alcoholics can and often are, powerful contributors to some kind of expansion in consciousness or creative purpose, however small it may be. Alcoholism and additions: The crux of it is the Moon, coming under affliction from Saturn and Rahu. This is the case in Bush's chart. Further, Mercury's conjunction with Saturn contributes to depression, also a condition that Bush might have been pre-disposed to. Anyway, I've got to go earn a living here - All the best, Robert ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and, http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or Ph: 541.318.0248 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Dear`Robert, 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Thank you so much for your comments- we learn a lot from whatever you share from your vast experience. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Besides, “so clearly put and erudite that every part of my brain is engaged” as Cynthia said- I couldn’t have made Better description of how stimulating your comments are. I wish if you would share more/more often, to the extent which won’t interfere with your making your living, of course 12.0pt"> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">My textbooks on Jyotish grow nicely- 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Thanks 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">*me/bellow 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> Robert A. Koch [rk (AT) robertkoch (DOT) com] Tahoma">Friday, February 28, 2003 font-family:Tahoma">3:20 PM gjlist RE: [GJ] G W Bush - the true man vs. his image Dear Anna, Thank you for your responses, and your supportive words as well. Let me answer by quoting you first: At 05:20 AM 2/28/03 -0500, you wrote: But even you whom we know to be devoted to truth, entered your conviction in interpretation, Arial;color:navy">And risked to be one-sided, or maybe that s just my impression. Thank you for your gentle prodding. Maintaining the strict practice of complete objectivity is a challenge, I think you'd agree. Still, if the rules and principles of Jyotish are followed, one invariably leaves his/her bias at the door. Lets see then what you have to say: Anna: /Neither his chart, as I see it- would allow that/ Arial;color:navy">That his image is strange, diffused - it does match. font-family:Arial;color:navy">> He s not the saint obviously- RK: How do you know? He does not wear the robes of a holy man, and his profession is even less holy. However, if the lord of the 9th joins the lord of the ascendant, can we not say at least that he is a religious man, or that he has some faith? 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">I absolutely agree. Further, the Kala-Amrta yoga in his chart causes all the planets to move toward Ketu. Do you not get the hints that his soul is perhaps a bit more evolved than the mystique around the Arudha lagna would suggest? Answer objectively please. Finally, according to Jaimini, Ketu being in the 12th from Karakamsa lagna (the sign of the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa chart), brings Moksha. Now, I cannot assume anything on my own. However, there are definite sutras stating this, and Bush has it in his chart. You have to look deeper to see the true karmic pattern underlying the person. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Robert, I was not deriving impressions based on AL. Ketu can brings deception as well- and is deceptive anyway. This discussion seems to be around that Ketu feature, too. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Re, true karmic pattern- I don’t know, honestly. But would tend to appreciate real-life proven indications the most. color:navy"> But is he deserving of all the negative portrayals? According to Jaimini, one of the most powerful and enduring Raja-yogas involves the conjunction of the Moon and Jupiter. In this case, it is especially so, as Moon rules the lagna, and Jupiter the 9th house. This attests to the "true" person, behind the official mask of "leader of the free world." Anna: I don t understand this deserving - Arial;color:navy">Robert, wouldn t you expect from this Raja-Yoga and Moon-Jupiter contact to be manifested in more charismatic appearance, than it s actually the case. And since we haven t seen that would it be correct path of thinking if I suspect that something more prominent in his chart prevents-obstructs this from fully manifesting? In his appearance and possibly in OTHER ways, as well /Goodness Assumption/ Arial;color:navy">Jup-Moon is impressive in his chart- but where is that in his life? As per what we know. Arial;color:navy">So what that obstruction would be- I d say, let s have a look at that Saturn /but on that you wrote bellow/ RK: It depends on what you call "Charismatic". No, he doesn't have the charisma of a Bill Clinton, or perhaps of David Letterman. But if you put him in the arena in which he is strongest, i.e. being the first president in history to rise to the call of attacks directly on Continental US soil, you have to say that he has a lot of charisma. Did you see his speech after the 9/11 attacks, or the speech following the Columbia space shuttle disaster? If it is a matter of protecting his country, the duties for which he is dedicated as president, he does indeed have integrity and shows it in his speeches. Otherwise, it is very hard to be a "popular" president, with Saturn on the ascendant, and the mysterious or hard to define image of Ketu in the Arudha lagna. Anyway, back to the Arudha lagna: Mars also aspects the AL, as does Saturn too (by rashi drishti). Mars gives him the public image as tough guy, or one who wants to start a war. Saturn gives him the image of being slow or dull, or not so tuned in, and also as one who could inflict death as Saturn is a maraka lord. But these are influences only effecting the illusion or image of the man; the true man, is seen through the Raja-yoga involving the lagna, its lord first of all; secondly, Mercury as 12th lord, and Saturn as 8th lord, form a Vipareet Raja yoga, bring dignity to these planets, in spite of their house rulerships. Anna: Here, it seems to me, you invite Vipareet Raya yoga to support your conviction. Arial;color:navy">You say that VRY bring dignity to these planets, and that s most likely helping this unhappy/my conviction/ man survive and even be where he is- but it doesn t annul ate basic malefic nature of Saturn, primarily, is that correct? RK: No, that is not correct. Vipreet Raja-yoga is only one angle from which to view/understand Saturn/Venus/Mercury in Bush's chart. The clue is in Parasara's advice to view the planetary positions/yogas from the lagna, the Moon, as well as the ascendant. The Moon is the significator for the Arudha lagna, and thus the image, i.e. statesmanship, leadership as seen in the eyes of the world, is seen from the Moon lagna. His physical or outer persona, and combinations underlying presidential duties, or other purposes, is seen from the lagna. The Atma, or soul of the person, is seen from the Sun lagna. Now, if you view those three planets including Saturn, Venus, and Mercury from the Moon, they form a powerful Raja-yoga wherein Saturn rules the 5th, Venus the 9th, and Mercury the 1st and 10th. If you view them from the Sun, Saturn rules the 9th, Venus the 5th, and Mercury the 1st and 4th. Those planets respectively fall in the 1st, 11th, and 2nd from the lagna, the Moon, and the Sun respectively. Herein you get a much different idea of power, fame, and influence, in addition to great wealth (indeed Bush had become a multi-millionaire on his own efforts, prior to entering the White House) than the deeply maligned Saturn rising would suggest. How does the man become the leader of the most powerful country in the world if he is the normal">unhappy man struggling to survive that you describe? Now Anna, is that your personal bias, or are you seeing the astrological components from all angles objectively? 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Robert, I didn’t say that. I know that he’s wealthy- not an issue, though 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">And sure I believe he’s made wealth on his own effort- self-made man you think? /just kidding/ the dasas from the lagna naksatra, the current period is of Moon/Rahu/Mars, from 2/17/03 to 3/21/03. Mars and Rahu both influence the AL, thus causing confusion around the motives behind Bush's aggression. Still, all three are in the 10th house of the Navamsa, so it can be said that Bush (however inadvertently) is part of a Dharmic or Divine process put in motion to rid the world of some very undesirable and essentially demonic elements. Anna: It s hard for me to digest- Arial;color:navy">/Not-astro note- considering the number of wars fought against demons this world be inhabited by saints only. And whose definition on demon counts- OH NO! / RK: Who said anything about demons? I agree, that word does raise unfair characterizations, as well as fears and phobias. However, if the word could be applied to someone we know, I think Saddam Hussein fits the descriptions pretty well. Anyway, back to the astrology: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Yes, he does. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Poor Iraqis. I agree, that who am I to say whether or not something is part of a Divine or Dharmic process? Then again, is not everything part of a Divine process, while we are all puppets in the hands of the Creator? Did you know that one of the most respected spiritual treatises of all times, viz. the Bhagavad-gita, was spoken on a battlefield? Why are wars not part of the Divine process? Everyone wants peace, as do I. Isn't it ironical then, that there was never a period of peace in the history of the world that did not come as a result of war? And if war precipitates peace, is it then also not part of a Divine process? and are those whose destiny puts them in a position to enact war as leaders of countries not part of that process? ATMAKARAKA Anyway, my point was, that the Navamsa is the chart of Dharma. Further, the Atmakaraka planet - viz. the one attaining the highest degrees in its sign - is the most important one in the Navamsa to determine the level of dharma or the spiritual process underlying the outward, official duties of the President. Bush's AK is Venus, and is exalted in the 5th house of the Navamsa, while 5th and 9th lords join the lagna lord in the 10th. You'll never see a Navamsa chart this powerful in very many lifetimes. Now can you say that his works are not part of a Divine process? Do we not unfairly judge people based on his physical and outer persona, and also based upon those things that we do not know about him? How much of our belief systems are based upon impressions and conditioning? This is where we leave bias at the door, and rely *strictly* on the principles of Jyotish. Anna: If the Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and these planet form a great Raja-yoga therein, how could this be simply the aggressive instincts of a cowboy from Texas? There are more subtle layers of integrity upon which we can identify the man. These should be our criteria, rather than following the herd who cannot discern the true man from his image, or the lagna from the Arudha lagna. Arial;color:navy">Where did you get that from- who said that Bush wants the war just because he s an aggressive cowboy- that would be to naïve RK: I agree, yet some people offer up these kinds of criticisms. He was maligned in the early going, just because he wore cowboy boots and hat in the White House a couple of times. So you see, people avoid his Arudha, because Ketu stands at the door and leaves them completely confused. People do not know how to associate Ketu with a worldly image - this is the crux of the problem. Next, the reaction is fear, as I went into yesterday, and that's the reason why he is judged the way he is. This is why teaching, practicing, and spreading the knowledge of Jyotish is a great and important mission. Without it, the masses are left in the dark. Anna: What about Rahu in 10th in nine-harmonic chart as being unscrupulous urge and family karma continuation which /Raya yoga/ is to be satisfied in this life of a native /instead of punished. Besides, that s Bush s chart not of the demons -they would have different, for sure, by virtue of the fact that they are considered demons Arial;color:navy">Robert, would that be in accordance with jyotish to look at the same thing this way? Or another? Rahu is very important in the charts of world leaders. If it is in a kendra (the most important of which is the 10th house) with strong benefics as lords of trinal houses, Moon and Jupiter particularly, then Rahu enhances the magnitude of the Raja yoga. Look at the three most vital and important varga charts for a world leader: They are the Navamsa, the Dasamsa, and the Panchamsa (5th harmonic chart). In all three of those charts in Bush's case, Rahu is in very powerful positions: In the rashi chart, he is in the 11th/exalted; in Navamsa, he is in the 10th in company with strong benefics; in the Dasamsa, he is in the 3rd in his Moolatrikona sign of Virgo; and in the D-5, he is in the 9th also in company with Jupiter and Venus. Rahu herein is strongly contribute to his having the power to be the leader of the free world. Coincidentally, Ketu is in the Arudha lagna of the Navamsa chart too (Aquarius)........now this is really getting interesting. 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">‘Skillful Rahu/Ketu’, it seems Regarding the Panchamsa: This chart is very important for presidents and leaders, as it brings the themes and symbolism of Leo fully into the pattern of the persons's karma. Parasara and Jaimini both say, that even there is even one strong planet in the Panchamsa, the individual has great leadership power. Now, in Bush's D-5, there is a Dharma-karmadhipati yoga, i.e. exchange of 9th and 10th lords, while lagna lord is involved. There are some flaws there, however, yet the one dharma yoga suffices to bring this man to the top of the heap so far as worldly power goes. ASSASSINATION? Not likely at all. How could it happen? Gunshot would require that Mars be malefic and afflict either the ascendant, its lord, or the 8th house (preferably all three in the case of gunshot assassination, as in the case of JFK). Poison? Then Rahu would have to be in similar position, yet he is not, in exaltation in the best house for Rahu (the 11th). Fall from a high place, i.e. being pushed off a cliff? Now its getting ridiculous! Mars would have to be the sole significator for gunshot, and he is a powerful yoga-karaka in Bush's chart, not an enemy, and further makes no affliction to the lagna, its lord, its significator, or the 8th lord either. If Mars is powerful as a functional malefic, then it is possible, otherwise it is highly unlikely. Anna: One more thing I d like to ask- this man suffered serious addiction problems and that s also part of his personality-and must be in the chart Arial;color:navy"> As we know we have sober and wet alcoholics PERSONALITY is the same- What would be the substitute for actual drugs for this man? 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> RK: First of all, you will be hard pressed to find any president anywhere who *isn't* addicted to something! I'm just getting sick and tired of seeing Saddam on TV on one of his Iraqi sponsored photo ops., smoking that cigar! What then to speak of Winston Churchill........ Anyway, so far as sober and wet alcoholics: That is probably true, that the personality flaw persists in spite of sobriety. But is that a disqualification? From what I've seen, fully recovered alcoholics can and often are, powerful contributors to some kind of expansion in consciousness or creative purpose, however small it may be. And person I would add ‘who *isn't* addicted to something - Robert, NEVER EVER have I said what you imply- those who suffered the most and struggled the most to overcome self or otherwise destructive patterns, mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">DO teach are all the most- and DO contribute the most. Please read again what I wrote- Disqualification? We all are ‘addicted’ ‘obsessed’ with something- it’s great for example to see those who overcame addiction problem being the most helpful and devoted to helping others with the same problem- that’s common knowledge, they are the best. My question was what would be his path of re-directing energy, because nobody can get rid of what he is, neither should that be expected. But can one disregard such an obvious, life-proven fact, and not find its place in the whole picture, if one is to follow Jyotish- my understanding, which may not be correct- is No. Just that. And I just wanted to hear how would you do that- Following the principle of consistency and objectivity. Because I know that you didn’t have time to share everything you’ve taken into the consideration. Sorry, I didn’t mean to make you angry- Please forgive me if I did- 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> Alcoholism and additions: The crux of it is the Moon, coming under affliction from Saturn and Rahu. This is the case in Bush's chart. Further, Mercury's conjunction with Saturn contributes to depression, also a condition that Bush might have been pre-disposed to. Thanks. 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> Anyway, I've got to go earn a living here - All the best Robert! Anna 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"> All the best, Robert ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert A. Koch, Vedic Astrologer Faculty Member, SJC and ACVA visit <http://www.robertkoch.com> and, http://www.jyotishdiscovery.com or Ph: 541.318.0248 font-family:"Courier New""> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat : gjlist- Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release 2/24/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release 2/24/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Dear Robert Koch, Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge in interpreting G W Bush's natal chart. Would you now speak of his dasas and transits since inauguration? Also, I am sorry that I missed why you choose lagna dasa instead of moon dasa? Thank you for your explanations. "Nelle" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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