Spiritual birth chart

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Dhira Krsna

That is what I also use based on my understanding, reading and

experience. Although I give credit where it is due to Sri Santanam who

uses anupachaya.

My understanding is based on the following:

1. Moon is the Karaka for blood and mother hood as well. Hence Moon

decides which lady shall become a mother and when. He has the OVER RIDING

power in this regard and can also overstep the limits of Brihaspati in

giving children outside sanctioned marriages..

2. Moon in an anupachaya is related to menstruation, and Mars (ashanti,

himsa, krodha) activates this.

3. Moon in an upachaya is against menstruation, and Guru (shanti, ahimsa

and kshama) activates this.

...thats my personal view about Moon in an Upachaya causing pregnancy and

my understanding of the texts. I did mention this in the other lists as

well. My understanding is based on extrapolation of certain principles as

indicated above.

In fact, I believe that this has more to do with nakshatra than just rasi

transit of the Moon. Further, should the saptamsa of the Moon not play a

role as the rasa is what should initiate the pregnancy.

Appreciate your hard work and efforts in this direction and thanks for

sharing it in the lists.

With best regards,

Sanjay Rath

__________

Mail: H-5 B.J.B. Nagar, Bhubaneswar, OR 751014, India

Web:

http://srath.com SJC Web: http://.org

At 06:37 PM 15-03-03 +0100, you wrote:

Dear Sanjay Rath,

>I don't think this has the support of available standard Jyotish

>literature. The Moon can be in any bhava in an anupachaya from mothers

>lagna.

I have a chart where even child's Moon is in an upachaya house from

mothers lagna.

Yours sincerely,

Dhira Krsna dasa

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

Thanks!

-Mary

Chris Hanlon <chrys333 (AT) attbi (DOT) com> wrote:

Hi Mary.Actually, from what I have read of the transcripts, he does indeed say

that the body is without a soul inhabiting it until a certain time before the

real birth. Even after the birth, the soul may decide to leave, which explains

crib deaths. A lot has to do with the willingness of the soul to take on

whatever that journey is. Sometimes the soul opts out of those lessons with

that body and the events that it will go through.If I remember correctly, Cayce

did not say when the soul did enter the body, not a set time, anyway.Interesting

thread.chrys333

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mary,

 

Hare Krsna!

 

There is no such thing as reckoning the chart from a so-called 'spiritual

birth'. The real reason is that birth times are sometimes not written in

accurately, especially in India or in the old times of yore. E.g. I have

the same thing, my birth certificate mentions 11 am, but my father (and my

mother as well) have told me several times that it was about 10:20 am. So

here exactly 40 minutes as well. My father still remembers that he left

for hospital at 10 am and that the delivery took only 20 min., which has

been confirmed by my mother. So don't take birthtimes on birth

certificates too serious, many times people do just round off a figure.

 

Yours sincerely,

Dhira Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

Mary- Cayce did not write any books but had over 15,000 trance readings that

were recorded. Many others wrote about these readings and about his life.

Psychic Readings never mentioned a rule that would be followed when a soul

would or could entire a body. It was up to the soul to determine the time of

starting the earthly journey.

 

Marvin Johnson

-

Mary Quinn

gjlist

Tuesday, March 11, 2003 7:48 AM

Re: [GJ] Spiritual birth chart

Chris - Do you know a title of a book where he refers to the spiritual birth? I

have not read anything by him, but I understand he was quite prolific. Do you

(or anyone) have any recommendations of which of his books I can read to find

out this information? Thanks! -Mary Chris Hanlon <chrys333 (AT) attbi (DOT) com> wrote:

Hi Mary.Actually, from what I have read of the transcripts, he does indeed say

that the body is without a soul inhabiting it until a certain time before the

real birth. Even after the birth, the soul may decide to leave, which explains

crib deaths. A lot has to do with the willingness of the soul to take on

whatever that journey is. Sometimes the soul opts out of those lessons with

that body and the events that it will go through.If I remember correctly, Cayce

did not say when the soul did enter the body, not a set time, anyway.Interesting

thread.chrys333

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Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat:

gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of

is subject to the

[Guest guest]

Books have been published which treat this subject. Some of the

authors in question are Margaret Gammon, Riley "Ry" Redd (a

siderealist), and John Willner (a tropicalist).

 

Willner has a multi-part theory about the subject that is highly

controversial and which I personally don't buy: I think he's really

stretching, that he has to ignore part of what Cayce said on the

subject to make some of his points, and that his results don't appear

to work out, for instance, in the case of my birth.

 

More on this later when I get more time.

 

gjlist, Mary Quinn <mary1quinn> wrote:

>

> Dear List,

>

> I mentioned some time ago that the late Narandra Desai rectified

the birthtime of a friend of mine by studying her thumbprints. He

told her that her birth time was about 40-something minutes before

her certificate time. This changed many of the planets to other

houses. At first she was very skeptical, but now says it actually

suits her better.

>

> The reason I mention this is because I've just heard about

something called a "spiritual" birth. Apparently this is a concept

about which the late Edgar Cayce wrote. I guess he states that the

horoscope is tied to the "Spiritual" birth which precedes the

physical birth (within an hour or two, I guess).

>

> Have any of you heard about this concept? If anybody knows anything

or has heard anything, I'd appreciate hearing from you!

>

> -Mary

>

>

>

>

>

> Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more

[Guest guest]

>

I've just heard about

something called a "spiritual" birth. Apparently this is a concept

about which the late Edgar Cayce wrote. I guess he states that the

horoscope is tied to the "Spiritual" birth which precedes the

physical birth (within an hour or two, I guess).

>

>Have any of you heard about this concept? If anybody knows anything

or has heard anything, I'd appreciate hearing from you!

>

>-Mary

There'a a book called "Astrological Revelations- An Edgar Cayce Guide", by

John Willner, St Martin's Press,175 Fifth Avenue, NYC, NY 10010, copyright

March 1998 that details Cayce's astrological information.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mary

You might post your question to this list. They know a lot more about Casey

than I. This is a western astrology list whose focus is spiritual

astrology. They are very kind and helpful

I'm dashing as fast as I can to go out of town.

 

astrology-l-

 

c

-

"Chris Hanlon" <chrys333

<gjlist>

Monday, March 10, 2003 7:25 PM

Re: [GJ] Spiritual birth chart

 

 

> Hi Mary.

> Actually, from what I have read of the transcripts, he does indeed

> say that the body is without a soul inhabiting it until a certain time

> before the real birth. Even after the birth, the soul may decide to

> leave, which explains crib deaths. A lot has to do with the

> willingness of the soul to take on whatever that journey is. Sometimes

> the soul opts out of those lessons with that body and the events that

> it will go through.

> If I remember correctly, Cayce did not say when the soul did enter

> the body, not a set time, anyway.

> Interesting thread.

> chrys333

>

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mary,

 

The soul enters the body at the time of conception, not at any other time

given. Otherwise how can the body grow? As soon as the soul leaves the

body, we call that death and the body deteriorates immediately. If the

soul is not present, how can we speak of life? This is a false argument to

justify killing the baby in the womb, which is actually a great sin and

equals to murder.

 

Yours sincerely,

Dhira Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

Re; Spiritual Birth.While Cayce did suggest this could happen on rare

occasions ,he confirmed the importance of the first breath as the normal time

of the soul's entrance into the body.Dave

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response. Please do not misunderstand me. I am not speaking

of killing anyone or even of when the soul enters the body. I am only speaking

of an accurate horoscope. My interest is in reliable astrology.

Here is the situation: Let's say you have a birth where the time of the physical

birth is well documented and verified by the parents and yet the horoscope is

not really accurate. Let's say that the horoscope is rectified by a very

experienced and qualified astrologer using many reliable and major events.

Let's say that the rectified horoscope is for 48 minutes before the "actual"

birth. Something is wierd. It makes me wonder whether ones true chart isn't

tied to the moment of physical birth. After all, which moment IS physical

birth?

Having heard of Edgar Cayce's theory of spiritual birth, I wondered what anyone

knew or thought of it.

-Mary

Dhira Krsna BCS <Dhira.Krsna.BCS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Mary,The soul enters the body at the time of conception, not at any other

timegiven. Otherwise how can the body grow? As soon as the soul leaves thebody,

we call that death and the body deteriorates immediately. If thesoul is not

present, how can we speak of life? This is a false argument tojustify killing

the baby in the womb, which is actually a great sin andequals to murder.Yours

sincerely,Dhira Krsna dasaOm Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat

Sat:

gjlist-http://www.goravani.comYour use of

is subject to

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[Guest guest]

I will like to add that the position of moon in birth chart is the

same as ascending sign(lagna) at the time of conception.

This has been discussed before on this list and at that time no

one believed it.---but this has been confirmed as true by a very

good astrologer known to me and I believe it to be true.

Any comments?

vivek.

 

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 Dhira Krsna BCS wrote :

>Dear Mary,

>

>The soul enters the body at the time of conception, not at any

>other time

>given. Otherwise how can the body grow? As soon as the soul

>leaves the

>body, we call that death and the body deteriorates immediately.

>If the

>soul is not present, how can we speak of life? This is a false

>argument to

>justify killing the baby in the womb, which is actually a great

>sin and

>equals to murder.

>

>Yours sincerely,

>Dhira Krsna dasa

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>:

>gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

 

________

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[Guest guest]

hi vivek

a kundali thats we used almost its called JANMALAGN CHAKRAM

A kundali thats we take moon in 1st house called RASHI KUNDALI

and when we take sun in 1st house called RAVI KUNDALI

all three r imporanant in prediction

[Guest guest]

Dear Mary,

 

I did not want to say that you are thinking about abortion and so, but the

reactions you got on your message might have given rise to such ideas,

therefore I wanted to put that clear. Regarding rectification of birth

time against the statements of parents, who are actually the best to know,

unless they are not sure about it, I would say that: who is that

experienced astrologer who will rectify 48 minutes while the parents have

said it is the accurate birth time. I would not accept such rectification.

Rectification before the actual time of birth is not possible, and with

time of birth we generally mean when the child has a separate existence

from the mother, that is when the child comes out of the womb and the

umbilical cord connection is broken, or no prana from the mother enters

through it any more.

 

Yours sincerely,

Dhira Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

Dear Vivek,

I don't think this has the support of available standard Jyotish

literature. The Moon can be in any bhava in an anupachaya from mothers

lagna. Mars relates to mother and Venus to father at the time of

conception - keep this in mind. That is why these are the fixed (Sthira

Karaka)

Regards

Sanjay Rath

---------

At 07:02 AM 14-03-03 +0000, you wrote:

I will like to add that the

position of moon in birth chart is the

same as ascending sign(lagna) at the time of conception.

This has been discussed before on this list and at that time no

one believed it.---but this has been confirmed as true by a very

good astrologer known to me and I believe it to be true.

Any comments?

vivek.

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 Dhira Krsna BCS wrote :

>Dear Mary,

>

>The soul enters the body at the time of conception, not at any

>other time

>given. Otherwise how can the body grow? As soon as the soul

>leaves the

>body, we call that death and the body deteriorates immediately.

>If the

>soul is not present, how can we speak of life? This is a false

>argument to

>justify killing the baby in the womb, which is actually a great

>sin and

>equals to murder.

>

>Yours sincerely,

>Dhira Krsna dasa

>

>

>

>Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

>:

>gjlist-

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

________

Great Travel Deals, Airfares, Hotels on

http://r.rediff.com/r?www.journeymart.com/rediff/travel.asp&&sign&&jmart

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

: gjlist-

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

~Om Gurave Namah~

Dear

With best regards,

Sanjay Rath

__________

Mail: H-5 B.J.B. Nagar, Bhubaneswar, OR 751014, India

Web: http://srath.com SJC Web: http://.org

Om Gurave Namah

Dear

With best regards,

Sanjay Rath

__________

Mail: H-5 B.J.B. Nagar, Bhubaneswar, OR 751014, India

Web: http://srath.com SJC Web: http://.org

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your interest and your response. It is true that when the mother

is occupied with the actual birth and the father is "outside" awaiting word,

errors as to time can be made. It is an easy thing to take refuge in the idea

that "someone must have gotten the time wrong". It is also easy to malign the

astrologer (kill the messenger) when we don't like the message. What I'm

interested in is the objective accuracy of the horoscope. The aforementioned

rectified horoscope is frighteningly accurate. Whether the astrologer was great

or whether an idiot that stumbled upon it is irrelevent. It IS an accurate

horoscope. It is 48 minutes earlier than the time the parents swear by. I just

think it's interesting.

-Mary

Dhira Krsna BCS <Dhira.Krsna.BCS (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Mary,I did not want to say that you are thinking about abortion and so, but

thereactions you got on your message might have given rise to such

ideas,therefore I wanted to put that clear. Regarding rectification of

birthtime against the statements of parents, who are actually the best to

know,unless they are not sure about it, I would say that: who is

thatexperienced astrologer who will rectify 48 minutes while the parents

havesaid it is the accurate birth time. I would not accept such

rectification.Rectification before the actual time of birth is not possible,

and withtime of birth we generally mean when the child has a separate

existencefrom the mother, that is when the child comes out of the womb and

theumbilical cord connection is broken, or no prana from the mother

entersthrough it any more.Yours sincerely,Dhira Krsna dasa

Web Hosting - establish your business online

[Guest guest]

Dear Vivek,

 

Indeed, that is not correct. I have examples where this is not true. You

may look also to the example given in Santhanam's BHPS, where this is also

not true. There are methods to calculate the Moon's position in birth

chart from conception chart, e.g. by the dwadasamsa method.

 

Yours sincerely,

Dhira Krsna dasa

 

>I will like to add that the position of moon in birth chart is the

>same as ascending sign(lagna) at the time of conception.

>This has been discussed before on this list and at that time no

>one believed it.---but this has been confirmed as true by a very

>good astrologer known to me and I believe it to be true.

>Any comments?

>vivek.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mary,

 

It is certainly interesting. Why don't you post the both charts so we can

have a look at what changed?

 

Yours sincerely,

Dhira Krsna dasa

[Guest guest]

Dear Dhira,

 

I must have missed something on this thread?

 

Why upachaya from Mother's Lagna? /Sanjay/

 

And now what you say implies that it's rare that child's Moon is an upachaya

from Mother's lagna

- is that right?

Whether it is or not rare, what would that mean? Dhira, would you please

exlain this further? Thanks

 

/My two cents: My son's Lagna same as Moon placement at the time of

conception

/where my natal Moon is too/

 

Sorry if it's already been discussed /and I missed/, LOL

Anna

 

 

 

-

"Dhira Krsna BCS" <Dhira.Krsna.BCS

<gjlist>

Saturday, March 15, 2003 12:37 PM

[GJ] Re: Spiritual birth chart

 

 

> Dear Sanjay Rath,

>

> >I don't think this has the support of available standard Jyotish

> >literature. The Moon can be in any bhava in an anupachaya from mothers

> >lagna.

>

> I have a chart where even child's Moon is in an upachaya house from

> mothers lagna.

>

> Yours sincerely,

> Dhira Krsna dasa

>

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat

> : gjlist-

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sanjay,

 

You need to reset your clock, it is reading 1994!

 

-- John M*********** REPLY SEPARATOR

***********On 3/16/1994 at 12:40 PM Sanjay Rath wrote:

Om Gurave

Namah

[Guest guest]

Dear Anna,

 

>From what Sanjay wrote it would appear that Moon of the child cannot be in

an upachaya house from mother's lagna (he writes anupachaya house from

mother's lagna, which means 'not upachaya').

 

Therefore I replied that in some charts, this may even be so. Whether this

is rare or not, this is not my statement. I did not examine many charts

for this, but at least I have one where it counts, and it cannot be a

matter of rectification, as the lagna is a Scorpio one with two sons

having Moon resp. in Pisces and Aries.

 

Sanjay also states in his book Jaimini Upadesa Sutras that for conception,

Moon has to be in an upachaya from lagna of mother. Do you have the exact

timing of your conception and the chart of your child? I would like to

have a look, if you don't mind. I guess you have sent your chart before on

this list?

 

Yours sincerely,

Dhira Krsna dasa