Void Moon

[Guest guest]

Dear Mary:

 

Well perhaps there is no void-of-course Moon in Jyotish and the reason no

one else has joined the discussion!

 

But I followed your explanation UNTIL you got to the part about sidereal

Gemini Moon "still busy making aspects in S. Gemini." My sidereal ephemeris

shows that sidereal Gemini Moon is 27* Gemini today, December 11, and S

Cancer Moon is 9* Cancer December 12 (Friday) suggesting that S Cancer

Moon begins before midnight EST Dec 12. To travel those 3* would take 6

hours with the 1*=2 hours rule. So S. Cancer Moon at 0* would be Thursday,

December 11 to account for the 9* S Cancer Moon showing December 12

NOT 6:40 AM December 12, according to T calculations. (It feels like a

Cancer Moon now as I'm writing about 5:30 PM EST. The S Gemini Moon

conjunct Saturn was really rough yesterday).

 

GMT time calculations may be another factor though. If S Cancer Moon is at

9* December 12 GMT, this would also make S Cancer Moon much earlier

EST. It may be "time" to give up "time."

 

Another speculation about no one else answering is that you and I are the

only ones who can follow this illogical logic! But with 4 planets in Cancer and

a Cancer lagna, I would like to figure out this Moon puzzle, if anyone has any

other suggestions?

 

Thanks for answering, Mary. It has given me much to ponder on. I too am

limited in my understanding in Jyotish and one of the reasons I struggle to

follow the list communications.

 

Janna

 

gjlist, Mary Quinn <mary1quinn> wrote:

> Dear Janna,

>

> I understood that the Moon moves slightly faster in

> some signs, slower in others. However I too use the "1

> degree in 2 hours" rule to calculate the Moon's

> approximate movement. However, that would mean that it

> would take the Moon 14 hours to move 7 degrees, not

> 3.5 hours. Of course, the difference between tropical

> and sidereal is more than 23 degrees, and the Moon's

> movement is not exactly 1 degree every 2 hours, but

> still - I don't know how your friend arrived at the 9

> hour difference.

>

> Oof. Shortcut: T. = Tropical, S. = Sidereal, V/C =

> void of course.

>

> However this whole discussion brings up an important

> point. The S.Zodiac and the T.Zodiac are different.

> Therefore the Moon V/C cycles will be different

> between the two and the aspect which starts the V/C

> will be different. So we really can't compare the two

> without MAJOR confusion.

>

> The S.Moon entering Gemini on December 9 at

> approximately 5:11AM EST (by my possibly flawed guess)

> would end the previous Sidereal V/C which would have

> started with the S.Moon's last aspect (opposition

> Pluto if you count the outers, or square Jupiter if

> you don't...uh-oh, was that the sound of a can of

> worms being opened?). The T.Moon, though, doesn't V/C

> until the trine to Uranus at 5:48PM EST. T.Moon enters

> Cancer at 7:11PM EST ending the Tropical V/C.

>

> Jumping then to December 12 and the Moon-Mars question

> you had. Since the Moon-Mars aspect is dependent on

> how many degrees they are apart, the aspect occurs at

> the same time in both zodiacs. However, in TROPICAL

> the Moon-Mars aspect (being the last aspect while the

> Moon is T.Cancer and before it enters T.Leo) is the

> beginning of the Moon's V/C. Not so in Sidereal. The

> S.Moon is at only 7 S.Gemini and has plenty more

> aspects to make before it leaves S.Gemini some

> 50-something hours later. So although the T.Moon V/C'd

> at 1:53AM EST when T.Moon trined Mars, and the V/C

> ended when T.Moon entered T.Leo at 6:40AM EST, the

> S.Moon was still busy making aspects in S.Gemini. I

> don't think the S.Moon would V/C until December 14

> when it trines Sun at 12:39AM EST and ends when S.Moon

> enters S.Cancer on December 14 somewhere around 4:40AM

> EST. Of course all these calculations are in my head

> and I could be off. Sorry.

>

> However, this whole discussion begs the most important

> question. IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A VOID OF COURSE

> MOON IN VEDIC ASTROLOGY? Maybe this is just a tropical

> concept which could make it all do-do anyway. After

> all, aren't there fewer aspects in Vedic astrology for

> the Moon to make? And if you eliminate all the outer

> planets, then the S.Moon would be V/C more often than

> not, especially every time the personal planets are in

> the early degrees of any sign.

>

> Anyway, I know little to nothing Vedic-wise. So,

> again, I'm not the authority on this issue. But what

> I've told you tropically is correct. Still, I get the

> feeling the Moon V/C thing doesn't apply to Jyotish.

>

> Hopefully someone else will answer this question.

>

>

>

> New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Janna,

 

LOL. The reason I confused you is because I'm wrong.

Oops. Sorry. I can't seem to jump back and forth

between Dec 9 and Dec 12 and between Tropical and

Sidereal without confusing the signs we're talking

about.

 

When we stated that the Moon trine Mars aspect (of Dec

11/Dec 12) was from T.Cancer to T.Pisces I then made

the ERRONEOUS mental assumption that it would be from

S.Gemini to S.Aquarius since my mind was still on

S.Moon entering S.Gemini on Dec 9. Oops. The aspect

takes place from Cancer to Pisces in both zodiacs.

Therefore when I said that the S.Moon was "still busy

making aspects in S.Gemini" when T.Moon entered T.Leo,

I should have said "still making aspects in S.Cancer"

because when T.Moon entered T.Leo ending the V/C,

S.Moon was still at 7 S.Cancer and hadn't begun a V/C

yet (assuming it ever could since it may not exist in

Jyotish).

 

Regarding your sidereal ephemeris, what time and what

zone is it for? Noon or midnight GMT? The Moon trine

Mars aspect takes place at 1:53AM EST/Dec 12 which

would place the S.Moon (unless I'm screwing up again)

at 4 S.Cancer near 6:53AM/GMT, making your ephemeris

most likely a Noon GMT ephemeris. Right?

 

I would then estimate that the S.Moon had entered

S.Cancer somewhere in the vicinity of 5:53PM EST/Dec

11 (which is also 10:53PM GMT/Dec 11).

 

The 6:40AM EST/Dec 12 time is for T.Moon entering

T.Leo. So if your original source (I can no longer

remember where you got this info) states this as the

time for S.Moon to enter S.Cancer, then your source is

mixing S.events with T.times.

 

Yes, all these Date/Time references would confuse

people with GMT quite easily considering I've confused

myself, and you and I are only 3 hours apart, though

come to think of it, I didn't confuse myself with

time, I confused myself with signs.

 

Whatever. I'm probably confused and don't even realize

it yet. LOL. What's even funnier is that everyone on

this list (who know anything about Vedic) is wondering

why we're even bothering to discuss something that

probably doesn't exist for them...

 

and then to get confused and be wrong about it, too...

 

I'm getting the distinct impression that a good rule

of thumb would be that if I answer any question or

post on this list, the subject can be safely assumed

to be non-Vedic. So I'm beginning to feel confident

that "Moon Void of Course" does not exist in Jyotish.

See, we didn't need the experts' opinions after all...

 

;-)

 

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Janna and Mary,

 

I haven't had a chance to read through the details of your respective posts

but thought I would toss in my two cents on the general subject --

 

I've studied western astrology for over twenty years and jyotish for about

seven years, so when I started studying jyotish I was already very familiar with

the concept of VOC moon and kind of on the look-out for something similar in

jyotish. However, during the last seven years of reading many books,

attending conferences, listening to tapes, lurking on email lists such as this

and

others, I've never heard of VOC moon being used in jyotish. Aside from the

incongruities in comparing tropical and sidereal zodiacs, and whether transits

to

outer planets count for this purpose, I think you also have to take into

consideration that in jyotish, the aspects cast by grahas, including the

"lights"

(sun and moon), are different for each graha, so that in western astrology the

moon forms many more types of aspects (sextiles, etc.) than in jyotish. And

I believe that there is some disagreement among western astrologers as to the

dividing line between "major" and "minor" (inconjunct, etc.) aspects, i.e.,

exactly which aspects are to be considered in determining whether the moon is

VOC.

 

Regards,

Trish Francis

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Trish,

 

Thanks for joining the party!

 

Janna and I also quickly came to the conclusion that

there is no such thing as VOC Moon in Jyotish, but

it's mightly pleasant to have it confirmed. Thanks.

 

Still, since Janna had concerns about the accuracy of

her data and the confusion caused by mixing the two

different zodiacs, it seemed very worth discussing

even though not Vedic. Carrying confusion around on

any topic is very annoying and a great waste of time.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.