Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 The nodes work because they cause gravity, just like planets. They are not planets, but gravity is generated from them, here's why: When the moon sets below the earth, that's Ketu, as it crosses the ecliptic, and on rising on other side, it's Rahu, as Moon goes up and down around the Earth, not around it on the ecliptic (Earth/Sun plane). So when it crosses, twice a month, there is an alignment on that plane, the ecliptic, of the Sun, the Earth, and now the Moon. So on earth, this shift or intensity increase or change in gravity is felt. The oceans rise more, the juices in us rise more, and we feel more passionate or crazy. The effect is very significant on society. It's a matter of gravity. By the way, just to let you know an interesting point, when you are calculating the Moon's position, as in the "Improved Lunar Ephemeris" from Nasa, there is a part at the end where you do these subtle adjustments called "perterbations" which are caused by other planets for example. So even the gravity from the other planets alters the Moon's orbit a wee bit. So my point there is this: If gravity from other planets is hitting and affecting a body of atoms like the Moon, then trust me, they are also affecting your atoms, ie, pulling on the forming ebryo, and the walking person, EVERYTHING. It's about attraction, or gravity, and Krishna is known as All Attractive, the black hole who eats the cosmos, thus confusing Mother Yashoda greatly. Peace das roik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 In a message dated 3/2/04 12:00:17 PM Mountain Standard Time, writes: << It's about attraction, or gravity, and Krishna is known as All Attractive, the black hole who eats the cosmos, thus confusing Mother Yashoda greatly. >> _____ Roik/Das, Thank you for the perspective. And the remembrance! Re: the luner nodes. I have had questions about the "mean node vs true node" issue, especially because, in my own chart, this difference in calculation causes the nodes to move sign and house. True node puts Ketu in the ninth house at 29 Pisces, and Rahu in the third at 29 Virgo (conjunct Sun, with 5th aspect to Capricorn Moon in 7th). Mean node calculation moves Ketu to 0 degrees Aries in the 10th house (5th aspect to Mercury-Venus in the second) and Rahu to 0 degrees Libra in the fourth (conjunct Jupiter). I have found this particularly interesting for Ketu, since it places it either at the very last degree of the zodiac or at the very first degree of the zodiac. Is this incarnation an ending or a beginning? Or both? Seems an oddly "fitting" placement for Ketu, given its own significations of material "endings" and spiritual "beginnings". The fine line between annihilation and emancipation is indeed a razor's edge. But then, so is Sudarsana Chakra! I have used the true node for my own chart, because it seems to most accurately reflect my experience of my life. My Rahu-Ketu "conflicts" feel much more of a 3/9 - Virgo/Pisces nature, than of a 4/10 - Libra/Aries nature. The Rahu conjunction to Sun, and 5th aspect to Moon, also makes sense to me, particularly when I look back at my Rahu Maha Dasha, (which lasted for most of my childhood, from ages 5 to 23). Although, a 4/10 Rahu-Ketu axis with Rahu conjunct Jupiter, (as it is with the mean node), would throw a different spin on things. Since the Ketu period of my Saturn Maha Dasha began in Oct 2003, (it runs till Nov 2004), I have been paying close attention to the nodes, Ketu in particular. I have become keenly aware of the intensity of that "gravity" you speak of, on every level. I would really be interested to hear your thoughts/feelings/intuitions on this issue. As I mentioned, I have simply gone with my intuition about it, at least for myself. But if I were faced with this issue in another person's chart, someone that I did not know, it would raise questions as to how to read this and which nodal calculation to use. Honestly, I really do not understand what the difference is in the true node vs mean node calculation, or how this influences the chart. In most charts, it does not effect it significantly. Unless the person just happens, as I do, to have the nodes at 29 degrees! Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this issue. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 || Om gurave namah || Dear Susan, I have been taught to use Mean node. I recommend the same. If you use mean nodes. Rahu in 1st degree would make your Atmakaaraka as Rahu. Rahu as atmakaaraka could make a person do a lot of self exploration and be possibly spiritual. Now, House lorded by Atmakaaraka also gets a lot of Focus. For you it becomes 8th co-lord so 8th house matters become prominent. You said Rahu dasa was in your childhood. The Dasa of atmakaaraka usually is very difficult particularly if it's malefic. Rahu in 10th can give a lot of pilgrimage. Mean nodes are the 'true' nodes. -Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran Om Tat Sat gjlist, AbaloneMoon@a... wrote: > In a message dated 3/2/04 12:00:17 PM Mountain Standard Time, > das@g... writes: > > << It's about attraction, or gravity, and Krishna is known as All Attractive, > the black hole who eats the cosmos, thus confusing Mother Yashoda greatly. >> > _____ > > Roik/Das, > > Thank you for the perspective. > And the remembrance! > > Re: the luner nodes. I have had questions about the "mean node vs true node" > issue, especially because, in my own chart, this difference in calculation > causes the nodes to move sign and house. True node puts Ketu in the ninth house > at 29 Pisces, and Rahu in the third at 29 Virgo (conjunct Sun, with 5th > aspect to Capricorn Moon in 7th). Mean node calculation moves Ketu to 0 degrees > Aries in the 10th house (5th aspect to Mercury-Venus in the second) and Rahu to > 0 degrees Libra in the fourth (conjunct Jupiter). > > I have found this particularly interesting for Ketu, since it places it > either at the very last degree of the zodiac or at the very first degree of the > zodiac. Is this incarnation an ending or a beginning? Or both? Seems an oddly > "fitting" placement for Ketu, given its own significations of material > "endings" and spiritual "beginnings". The fine line between annihilation and > emancipation is indeed a razor's edge. But then, so is Sudarsana Chakra! > > I have used the true node for my own chart, because it seems to most > accurately reflect my experience of my life. My Rahu- Ketu "conflicts" feel much more > of a 3/9 - Virgo/Pisces nature, than of a 4/10 - Libra/Aries nature. The Rahu > conjunction to Sun, and 5th aspect to Moon, also makes sense to me, > particularly when I look back at my Rahu Maha Dasha, (which lasted for most of my > childhood, from ages 5 to 23). Although, a 4/10 Rahu-Ketu axis with Rahu conjunct > Jupiter, (as it is with the mean node), would throw a different spin on things. > > Since the Ketu period of my Saturn Maha Dasha began in Oct 2003, (it runs > till Nov 2004), I have been paying close attention to the nodes, Ketu in > particular. I have become keenly aware of the intensity of that "gravity" you speak > of, on every level. I would really be interested to hear your > thoughts/feelings/intuitions on this issue. As I mentioned, I have simply gone with my > intuition about it, at least for myself. But if I were faced with this issue in > another person's chart, someone that I did not know, it would raise questions as > to how to read this and which nodal calculation to use. Honestly, I really do > not understand what the difference is in the true node vs mean node > calculation, or how this influences the chart. In most charts, it does not effect it > significantly. Unless the person just happens, as I do, to have the nodes at > 29 degrees! > > Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this issue. > > Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 I have struggled with this. With some clients the mean node works better, with others, the true node. I have come to use a more general time period of approaching and departing. On the question of why nodes work? Why does any of it work? The transits of the nodes are more or less intense depending upon the placement of the node natally and the nakshatra's myth or story. These are often manifest quite literally. c sanjayp [sanjayp] Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:02 AM gjlist Re: [GJ] Why nodes work || Om gurave namah || Dear Susan, I have been taught to use Mean node. I recommend the same. If you use mean nodes. Rahu in 1st degree would make your Atmakaaraka as Rahu. Rahu as atmakaaraka could make a person do a lot of self exploration and be possibly spiritual. Now, House lorded by Atmakaaraka also gets a lot of Focus. For you it becomes 8th co-lord so 8th house matters become prominent. You said Rahu dasa was in your childhood. The Dasa of atmakaaraka usually is very difficult particularly if it's malefic. Rahu in 10th can give a lot of pilgrimage. Mean nodes are the 'true' nodes. -Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran Om Tat Sat gjlist, AbaloneMoon@a... wrote: > In a message dated 3/2/04 12:00:17 PM Mountain Standard Time, > das@g... writes: > > << It's about attraction, or gravity, and Krishna is known as All Attractive, > the black hole who eats the cosmos, thus confusing Mother Yashoda greatly. >> > _____ > > Roik/Das, > > Thank you for the perspective. > And the remembrance! > > Re: the luner nodes. I have had questions about the "mean node vs true node" > issue, especially because, in my own chart, this difference in calculation > causes the nodes to move sign and house. True node puts Ketu in the ninth house > at 29 Pisces, and Rahu in the third at 29 Virgo (conjunct Sun, with 5th > aspect to Capricorn Moon in 7th). Mean node calculation moves Ketu to 0 degrees > Aries in the 10th house (5th aspect to Mercury-Venus in the second) and Rahu to > 0 degrees Libra in the fourth (conjunct Jupiter). > > I have found this particularly interesting for Ketu, since it places it > either at the very last degree of the zodiac or at the very first degree of the > zodiac. Is this incarnation an ending or a beginning? Or both? Seems an oddly > "fitting" placement for Ketu, given its own significations of material > "endings" and spiritual "beginnings". The fine line between annihilation and > emancipation is indeed a razor's edge. But then, so is Sudarsana Chakra! > > I have used the true node for my own chart, because it seems to most > accurately reflect my experience of my life. My Rahu- Ketu "conflicts" feel much more > of a 3/9 - Virgo/Pisces nature, than of a 4/10 - Libra/Aries nature. The Rahu > conjunction to Sun, and 5th aspect to Moon, also makes sense to me, > particularly when I look back at my Rahu Maha Dasha, (which lasted for most of my > childhood, from ages 5 to 23). Although, a 4/10 Rahu-Ketu axis with Rahu conjunct > Jupiter, (as it is with the mean node), would throw a different spin on things. > > Since the Ketu period of my Saturn Maha Dasha began in Oct 2003, (it runs > till Nov 2004), I have been paying close attention to the nodes, Ketu in > particular. I have become keenly aware of the intensity of that "gravity" you speak > of, on every level. I would really be interested to hear your > thoughts/feelings/intuitions on this issue. As I mentioned, I have simply gone with my > intuition about it, at least for myself. But if I were faced with this issue in > another person's chart, someone that I did not know, it would raise questions as > to how to read this and which nodal calculation to use. Honestly, I really do > not understand what the difference is in the true node vs mean node > calculation, or how this influences the chart. In most charts, it does not effect it > significantly. Unless the person just happens, as I do, to have the nodes at > 29 degrees! > > Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this issue. > > Susan Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat : gjlist- Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 Cynthia, I've also gone back and forth on this for a while, too. At the moment, I pay more attention to the true node when looking at transits. I have also found that applying transits are more powerful. Once they move past exact, they lose their energy -- for good or bad. If there is a place for the mean nodes, it may be in the varga charts. An example. My mother got the flu in early January, just as true Ketu was trining my Moon. She was most ill just on the 2-3 days that the trine was perfected ie became exact. Once it began separating, she began to get better as the antibiotics kicked in. My worries (Moon) also diminshed. Chris - "cynthianovak" <cynthianovak <gjlist> Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:42 AM RE: [GJ] Why nodes work > I have struggled with this. With some clients the mean node works better, > with others, the true node. I have come to use a more general time period > of approaching and departing. > > On the question of why nodes work? Why does any of it work? The transits > of the nodes are more or less intense depending upon the placement of the > node natally and the nakshatra's myth or story. These are often manifest > quite literally. > > c > > > > > sanjayp [sanjayp] > Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:02 AM > gjlist > Re: [GJ] Why nodes work > > > || Om gurave namah || > Dear Susan, > I have been taught to use Mean node. I recommend the same. > > If you use mean nodes. Rahu in 1st degree would make your > Atmakaaraka as Rahu. Rahu as atmakaaraka could make a person do a lot > of self exploration and be possibly spiritual. Now, House lorded by > Atmakaaraka also gets a lot of Focus. For you it becomes 8th co-lord > so 8th house matters become prominent. > You said Rahu dasa was in your childhood. The Dasa of atmakaaraka > usually is very difficult particularly if it's malefic. > Rahu in 10th can give a lot of pilgrimage. > > Mean nodes are the 'true' nodes. > > -Warm Regards > S. Prabhakaran > > Om Tat Sat > > gjlist, AbaloneMoon@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 3/2/04 12:00:17 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > das@g... writes: > > > > << It's about attraction, or gravity, and Krishna is known as All > Attractive, > > the black hole who eats the cosmos, thus confusing Mother Yashoda > greatly. >> > > _____ > > > > Roik/Das, > > > > Thank you for the perspective. > > And the remembrance! > > > > Re: the luner nodes. I have had questions about the "mean node vs > true node" > > issue, especially because, in my own chart, this difference in > calculation > > causes the nodes to move sign and house. True node puts Ketu in > the ninth house > > at 29 Pisces, and Rahu in the third at 29 Virgo (conjunct Sun, with > 5th > > aspect to Capricorn Moon in 7th). Mean node calculation moves Ketu > to 0 degrees > > Aries in the 10th house (5th aspect to Mercury-Venus in the second) > and Rahu to > > 0 degrees Libra in the fourth (conjunct Jupiter). > > > > I have found this particularly interesting for Ketu, since it > places it > > either at the very last degree of the zodiac or at the very first > degree of the > > zodiac. Is this incarnation an ending or a beginning? Or both? > Seems an oddly > > "fitting" placement for Ketu, given its own significations of > material > > "endings" and spiritual "beginnings". The fine line between > annihilation and > > emancipation is indeed a razor's edge. But then, so is Sudarsana > Chakra! > > > > I have used the true node for my own chart, because it seems to > most > > accurately reflect my experience of my life. My Rahu- > Ketu "conflicts" feel much more > > of a 3/9 - Virgo/Pisces nature, than of a 4/10 - Libra/Aries > nature. The Rahu > > conjunction to Sun, and 5th aspect to Moon, also makes sense to me, > > particularly when I look back at my Rahu Maha Dasha, (which lasted > for most of my > > childhood, from ages 5 to 23). Although, a 4/10 Rahu-Ketu axis > with Rahu conjunct > > Jupiter, (as it is with the mean node), would throw a different > spin on things. > > > > Since the Ketu period of my Saturn Maha Dasha began in Oct 2003, > (it runs > > till Nov 2004), I have been paying close attention to the nodes, > Ketu in > > particular. I have become keenly aware of the intensity of > that "gravity" you speak > > of, on every level. I would really be interested to hear your > > thoughts/feelings/intuitions on this issue. As I mentioned, I have > simply gone with my > > intuition about it, at least for myself. But if I were faced with > this issue in > > another person's chart, someone that I did not know, it would raise > questions as > > to how to read this and which nodal calculation to use. Honestly, > I really do > > not understand what the difference is in the true node vs mean node > > calculation, or how this influences the chart. In most charts, it > does not effect it > > significantly. Unless the person just happens, as I do, to have > the nodes at > > 29 degrees! > > > > Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this issue. > > > > Susan > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > Links > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 In a message dated 3/3/04 9:04:24 AM Mountain Standard Time, sanjayp writes: << Rahu in 1st degree would make your Atmakaaraka as Rahu. Rahu as atmakaaraka could make a person do a lot of self exploration and be possibly spiritual. Now, House lorded by Atmakaaraka also gets a lot of Focus. For you it becomes 8th co-lord so 8th house matters become prominent. You said Rahu dasa was in your childhood. The Dasa of atmakaaraka usually is very difficult particularly if it's malefic. Rahu in 10th can give a lot of pilgrimage. Mean nodes are the 'true' nodes. -Warm Regards S. Prabhakaran>> _________ Dear S. Prabhakaran, Thank you so much for your reply to my question. Yes, mean node puts Rahu and Ketu at exactly zero degrees zero minutes. Rahu in 4th in Libra; Ketu in 10th in Aries. And yes, you are right in ascertaining that spiritual focus is the primary focus of the incarnation. Re: Atmakaraka. My understanding is that, in determining Atmakaraka for Rahu/Ketu, you subtract the number of degrees from 30. 30 subtract 0 degrees 0 minutes equals 30 degrees. So, this would make Rahu/Ketu the highest degree and the Atmakaraka. 30 degrees, however, is really, actually, the same as zero degrees, if you think of it in terms of 30 degrees of a sign. So, would it still be considered the highest degree, i.e. 30 degrees, and therefore the Atmakaraka? Is it just an arithmetic calculation (30 minus 0), or do you think of it in terms of degrees within a sign? Somehow, there is something both humorous and ironic about "confusion" regarding the placement of Rahu and Ketu! I also had a question regarding your comment about Rahu becoming "8th co-lord". I am unclear as to what you meant by "8th co-lord". I have Cancer lagna, so Aquarius is on my 8th house. It's "regular" ruler, Saturn, is in the 5th house. Not sure I understand what you meant by "co-lord". What is the co-lord? At first I thought you meant "natural ruler for the 8th house", but this would be Ketu (in Aries, ruled by Mars, natural ruler for 8th house/Scorpio). I have a feeling I am misunderstanding what you meant by "co-ruler". Could you please explain and clarify this for me? Thanks so much for your help and your thoughts. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 In a message dated 3/3/04 9:45:37 AM Mountain Standard Time, cynthianovak writes: << I have struggled with this. With some clients the mean node works better, with others, the true node. I have come to use a more general time period of approaching and departing. >> _____ Cynthia, Thanks for your response re: my quandary about true nodes vs mean nodes with cuspal placements of Ra-Ke. Glad to know I am not the only one who has grappled with this. Guess it is a good reminder to "walk the middle road", as it were, and go with what works for each individual client. There is some irony to having Rahu/Ketu at a cuspal location like this, given it is a point of transition. In the case of my own chart, if I calculate using mean node, it moves Ra/Ke to exactly 0 degrees 0 minutes! Although uncommon, I doubt this is rare, and there are probably a lot of people with this kind of Ra/Ke placement. (30 out of every 360, if you think of it statistically. Did I do that math right? LOL) I suppose one could look at the chart both ways, and see what significations are common to both placements, and assume that these will be strong. One could also look at the cuspal placement as significant in and of tself, since it is less than one degree of orb of the end (or beginning) of the sign. Guess another way to look at this is to focus more on the Nakshatra than the rashi. This would work for some 29-to-0 degree placements, but would still leave a change in the Nakshatra between Ravati and Ashvini, Ashlesha and Magha, and Jyestha and Mula, the three water-to-fire transitional points. However, this still leaves the issue of change of house placement and conjunctions to any planets in those houses. You mentioned that you like to use a more general time period for approaching and departing transits. When looking at transits, what kind of time period do you like to use for Rahu and Ketu? Do you find it different than for other planets in transit? Do you find its effect to be strong as soon as it enters the house, or only when it is applying more closely, i.e. in closer degree of orb to a planet? I appreciate your thoughts on this. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Dear Chris You may be right. I've seen it work differently for different people. The only thing I know for certain is that the the approaching transits are pretty big! TO cover my behind when working with a client I like to consider the whole month when ite undulates within a degree or two of the natal planet as really indicative of the node that is transiting. In simple terms: Rahu indicates a tendency to "lose your head" in some way. You might really make money in the stock market, but may stay too long (lose your head) and lose. Likewise with realtionships: you might meet a really exciting new person and lose your head over it. With Ketu is seems very karmic or destined. Often it is literally a loss. Not something that you played into like Rahu, but something that is unavoidable. How do you interpret the transits of the nodes? I like to incorporate the myths of the nakshatras: If you have natal Rahu in, say Mula and the 12th, you will more likely experience the transits of Rahu in an intense painful manner. If your RAhu is in Rohini (known for indulgence too)and in the 5th, you may really get the benefit of the Rahu transit and very likely lose your head to avarice. just some thoughts c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Hi Cynthia, I think the nodes are notorious chameleons and very hard to predict. They are officially classified as malefics which means that they default that way, but like all planets, can bring rewards and blessings depending on their environment. Ketu is generally worse than Rahu, but it's a probability, not a certainty. I would say that both nodes will tend to be bad news for living things. They are more likely to work positively however for non-material significators. For things like career, Rahu is very often benefic. Bush's win in Dec 2000 is the most recent example of this. Rahu was applying to natal Sun with a one degree orb. It's important to recall that Bush's natal Rahu was destined to bring success: it is placed in the 11th of gains with Uranus. And it's placed in a Venus-owned nakshatra and Venus is 4L in the Lagna. Not bad at all. Richard Nixon is another interesting case. He was re-elected president in 1972 when transit Rahu had just passed conjunction with his 5H/1L Sun (it had separated by less than one degree). His natal Rahu is placed in the 8H which isn't good, but it is in a Venus-owned nakshatra and Venus rules the 10H while Venus itself is in a kendra house the 7th aspecting lagna. Rahu's natal dispositor is Jupiter, which is well-placed in its own sign in the 5th house of politics. But we still have to account for the role of Ketu in his resignation in Aug 1974. At that time, transit Ketu was conjunct the equal 10th house cusp. As you say, Ketu is worse than Rahu for worldly affairs like career, so this really isn't out of character for Ketu. But it's important to pay attention to the particular quality of Nixon's Ketu: its natal dispositor Mercury is in rapt conjunction with malefic Mars, closely opposed by Pluto. Natal Ketu is in Hasta which is ruled by the Moon. Nixon's Moon rules the 12th house of loss and is not doing him any favours placed in the 6th. So Ketu is often bad news for wordly affairs, but it can be really bad if it is associated with dusthana houses and malefics in the natal and transit charts. So if a client comes to you wondering about career questions and you see transit Rahu soon to aspect their 10th lord, I would *generally* be optimistic -- although you really have to figure out all the other stuff as well to get a sense that anything will happen. If Ketu is making that transit, I would generally be pessimistic. OTOH, Bill Clinton got married when transit Ketu was applying to his Moon. People can get married when Ketu aspects natal Venus. It's all possible -- it depends what the natal and transit influences are to the node or planet. And in some cases, these apparent "hits" will have nothing at all to do with the major event in question. They will only be background noise. Chris - "cynthianovak" <cynthianovak <gjlist> Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:06 AM RE: [GJ] Why nodes work > Dear Chris > You may be right. I've seen it work differently for different people. The > only thing I know for certain is that the the approaching transits are > pretty big! TO cover my behind when working with a client I like to > consider the whole month when ite undulates within a degree or two of the > natal planet as really indicative of the node that is transiting. > > In simple terms: Rahu indicates a tendency to "lose your head" in some way. > You might really make money in the stock market, but may stay too long (lose > your head) and lose. Likewise with realtionships: you might meet a really > exciting new person and lose your head over it. > > With Ketu is seems very karmic or destined. Often it is literally a loss. > Not something that you played into like Rahu, but something that is > unavoidable. > > How do you interpret the transits of the nodes? I like to incorporate the > myths of the nakshatras: If you have natal Rahu in, say Mula and the 12th, > you will more likely experience the transits of Rahu in an intense painful > manner. If your RAhu is in Rohini (known for indulgence too)and in the 5th, > you may really get the benefit of the Rahu transit and very likely lose your > head to avarice. > > just some thoughts > > c > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 In a message dated 3/4/04 7:41:24 AM Mountain Standard Time, christopher.kevill writes: << At the moment, I pay more attention to the true node when looking at transits. I have also found that applying transits are more powerful. Once they move past exact, they lose their energy -- for good or bad. If there is a place for the mean nodes, it may be in the varga charts. >> _________ Chris, Do you find you pay more attention to true nodes when looking at the rashi chart as well, or just when looking at transits? In which varga charts would you utilize mean node? Re: the strength and impact of applying transits, I have found this to be true in both Vedic and Western charts. Applying transits are more powerful than when they are waning, unless they are going to retrograde back over the point of conjunction (or aspect), in which case they lose some power past the "exact point", but regain it as they turn retrograde and are once again applying. The impact of them does not really fade, until they have reached the exact point for the last time. Then the impact fades, or improves, if the impact was negative (as in the case of your mother's illness), as the planet or node moves farther away. I have noticed, however, that the strength of the impact seems to fade or dissipate at different rates, depending on the planet. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Cynthia, Just a further idea on how the nodes my work in transit. In my last email, I thought that Rahu was more benefic that Ketu for most significations, particularly worldly affairs like career. One day later, I find the perplexing example of famous a-bomb dropper, Harry S Truman(May 8 1884 4.00 pm Lamar, MO -- I know its rounded by it's not germane to the point). When he became president upon the death of FDR in Apr 1945, transit Rahu was conjunct the 10th equal house cusp. Fair enough -- quite understandable. But when Truman won his *upset* victory over Dewey in Nov 1948, transit Ketu was just one degree past 2nd house/11th lord Moon and was exactly aspecting 10th house/2nd lord Venus, applying by just 10 *minutes*. So much for Ketu being incompatible with worldly success. Ketu's influence may have had a hand in the upset quality of the victory but who would have predicted it? The hint must lie in the influences on Ketu. Although in the 8th natally, its dispositor is Mars placed in the 11th of gains (albeit in Cancer). Ketu is also in Aswini, which is ruled by Ketu. Further, it's nakshatra subruler is also Ketu, so that's an triple strength Ketu, extending the principle of swakshetra to nakshatras. Moreover, transit Ketu is in Libra, disposited by Venus which is placed in the 10th natally. It's transit dispositor is Rahu, which is natally placed in the 2nd of status. A pretty good Ketu there all around. I'm not saying that explains the huge effect of transit Ketu for Truman's victory in 1948, but we have to be able to find a way to grant even sublime,ethereal Ketu with worldly powers where the situation demands it. Nodes are vessels into which the other planets' energies are poured. They may only express their inherent nature in the *way* events occur. Ketu usually represents sudden or suprising things, as Truman's upset win over Dewey was. ok for now, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Susan, I don't think it matters a whole lot which node you use in the rashi chart -- the difference usually doesn't make any difference. I use true nodes now for vargas too, but mostly out of laziness. For varga charts, check out the mean nodes in all the vargas. Then compare them with true nodes. Everyone has their own way to make sense of these things, but I would pay serious attention to the true nodes in the vargas, especially if you use exact varga positions. Maybe both of them have some utility. Applying transits do seem to be more powerful, although there are always exceptions where other planets are needed to make an event happen. Your point on the retrograde exception is well taken. It changes how the transit will work. That's why it's important for astrologers to know ahead of time if a planet will be coming back over a certain planet or point. The first pass won't do much at all. Chris - <AbaloneMoon <gjlist> Friday, March 05, 2004 8:37 AM Re: [GJ] Why nodes work > In a message dated 3/4/04 7:41:24 AM Mountain Standard Time, > christopher.kevill writes: > > << At the moment, I pay more attention to the true node when looking at > transits. I have also found that applying transits are more powerful. Once they > move past exact, they lose their energy -- for good or bad. If there is a > place for the mean nodes, it may be in the varga charts. >> > _________ > > > Chris, > > Do you find you pay more attention to true nodes when looking at the rashi > chart as well, or just when looking at transits? In which varga charts would > you utilize mean node? > > Re: the strength and impact of applying transits, I have found this to be > true in both Vedic and Western charts. Applying transits are more powerful than > when they are waning, unless they are going to retrograde back over the point > of conjunction (or aspect), in which case they lose some power past the "exact > point", but regain it as they turn retrograde and are once again applying. > The impact of them does not really fade, until they have reached the exact > point for the last time. Then the impact fades, or improves, if the impact was > negative (as in the case of your mother's illness), as the planet or node moves > farther away. I have noticed, however, that the strength of the impact seems > to fade or dissipate at different rates, depending on the planet. > > Susan > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 In a message dated 3/6/04 7:48:42 PM Mountain Standard Time, christopher.kevill writes: << I don't think it matters a whole lot which node you use in the rashi chart -- the difference usually doesn't make any difference. I use true nodes now for vargas too, but mostly out of laziness. For varga charts, check out the mean nodes in all the vargas. >> ______ Thanks for the reply, Chris. No, in the rashi chart it probably rarely makes a difference. It only seems to make a difference in cases like mine, in which the true nodes are between 29 degrees and 0 degrees, so that the change from true node to mean node moves the nodes into the next sign and house. As for the Varga chart, I have not experimented with this. I will have to look at see what happens in a chart with "cuspal" nodes like this. It would be interesting to see. As for the issue of retrogrades of transiting planets, I have seen it work several ways. Sometimes the impact of the planet seems to get stronger with each pass of the transit. Sometimes it seems to move from "external" to "internal", i.e. the first pass manifests primarily in external events impacting the person's life, while, on the second and third pass, the effect is more internal, as the person learns to integrate and respond to the energy and events that the planet is creating. I have also seen strong external events on the two direct passes (i.e. the first and third), and a more internal effect or repercussions during the retrograde pass. The third and final pass of the transiting planet also often seems to bring some resolution of the problem, events or state that was stirred up by the initial phase of the transit. Anyway, this is just my personal observation. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Susan - <AbaloneMoon <gjlist> Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:44 PM Re: [GJ] Why nodes work > In a message dated 3/6/04 7:48:42 PM Mountain Standard Time, > christopher.kevill writes: > > << I don't think it matters a whole lot which node you use in the rashi > chart -- the difference usually doesn't make any difference. I use true > nodes now for vargas too, but mostly out of laziness. For varga charts, > check out the mean nodes in all the vargas. >> > ______ > > Thanks for the reply, Chris. > > No, in the rashi chart it probably rarely makes a difference. It only seems > to make a difference in cases like mine, in which the true nodes are between > 29 degrees and 0 degrees, so that the change from true node to mean node moves > the nodes into the next sign and house. Ah -- I see how you do have to decide one way or the other! I would really try to make the true nodes "fit" in your chart before going to the mean position. It could be that both positions can be useful, but that means more work. Oh well. > > As for the Varga chart, I have not experimented with this. I will have to > look at see what happens in a chart with "cuspal" nodes like this. It would be > interesting to see. > Usually you can see how the varga positions work if you use precise degree varga positions rather than simple sign placements. > As for the issue of retrogrades of transiting planets, I have seen it work > several ways. Sometimes the impact of the planet seems to get stronger with > each pass of the transit. Sometimes it seems to move from "external" to > "internal", i.e. the first pass manifests primarily in external events impacting the > person's life, while, on the second and third pass, the effect is more > internal, as the person learns to integrate and respond to the energy and events that > the planet is creating. I have also seen strong external events on the two > direct passes (i.e. the first and third), and a more internal effect or > repercussions during the retrograde pass. The third and final pass of the transiting > planet also often seems to bring some resolution of the problem, events or > state that was stirred up by the initial phase of the transit. Anyway, this is > just my personal observation. > I think everyone has their own view of this. Science? Not yet! I doubt there is a standard way of looking at retrogrades because the retrograde aspect to another planet can never be isolated from everything else that is going on in the chart. It's a whole system of interconnecting influences and no one aspect is usually sufficient to make anything happen. cheers, Chris > Susan > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > Links > > gjlist > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 In a message dated 3/12/04 9:20:24 PM Mountain Standard Time, christopher.kevill writes: << I would really try to make the true nodes "fit" in your chart before going to the mean position.>> Actually, the true nodes do "fit" extremely well, so I have been using them. I am particularly conscious of them now, as I am in Ketu sub-dasha, (in Saturn Mahadasa), so these issues are very strong in my life right now. <<Usually you can see how the varga positions work if you use precise degree varga positions rather than simple sign placements.>> I will have to figure out how to calculate this. I have been relying on my software up until now, (lazy-man's way,....lol), so I do not know the exact degrees in the vargas. It would be interesting to see how they shift in the Vargas. Using true node, I have, however, found the nodes in the vargas to be accurate. I have not tried it the other way yet. _________ <> That's for sure! Getting too focussed on any one factor in a chart is usually a good way to skew the reading. I tend to look at a chart as a gestalt first, before I look at its individual features. Don't want to lose site of the forest because of the trees, as it were. Anyway, thanks for your comments, Chris. As for the true node vs mean node issue, I have simply followed my intuition with this one. Since the true node seemed to "fit" my life experience better, (in fact, precisely), I have used it. If I were looking at this for a client, I would probably look at it both ways, and see which seems more appropriate for them. In the end, it is more an intuitive process anyway. After all, it is "reading", not science, as you said. It is just a vehicle for reading. The real "reading" doesn't come from the chart anyway. And it doesn't come from us, either. It comes from the Divine. Best wishes....... Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2004 Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 Dear Chris You are right, and my experience too says the same thing. Rahu for non-living things is quite good. I got all my jobs on the nakshatras of Rahu(Satabisha, ardra). I also got them on either Amavasya(New moon ruled by rahu) or Ashtami (the 8th day of either waxing, or waning phases) again ruled by Rahu. Moon was generally either transiting over Natal rahu, or was over the transit rahu. good work best wishes partha gjlist, "Christopher Kevill" <christopher.kevill@s...> wrote: > Hi Cynthia, > > I think the nodes are notorious chameleons and very hard to predict. They > are officially classified as malefics which means that they default that > way, but like all planets, can bring rewards and blessings depending on > their environment. Ketu is generally worse than Rahu, but it's a > probability, not a certainty. I would say that both nodes will tend to be > bad news for living things. They are more likely to work positively however > for non-material significators. > > For things like career, Rahu is very often benefic. Bush's win in Dec 2000 > is the most recent example of this. Rahu was applying to natal Sun with a > one degree orb. It's important to recall that Bush's natal Rahu was > destined to bring success: it is placed in the 11th of gains with Uranus. > And it's placed in a Venus-owned nakshatra and Venus is 4L in the Lagna. > Not bad at all. Richard Nixon is another interesting case. He was > re-elected president in 1972 when transit Rahu had just passed conjunction > with his 5H/1L Sun (it had separated by less than one degree). His natal > Rahu is placed in the 8H which isn't good, but it is in a Venus- owned > nakshatra and Venus rules the 10H while Venus itself is in a kendra house > the 7th aspecting lagna. Rahu's natal dispositor is Jupiter, which is > well-placed in its own sign in the 5th house of politics. > > But we still have to account for the role of Ketu in his resignation in Aug > 1974. At that time, transit Ketu was conjunct the equal 10th house cusp. > As you say, Ketu is worse than Rahu for worldly affairs like career, so this > really isn't out of character for Ketu. But it's important to pay attention > to the particular quality of Nixon's Ketu: its natal dispositor Mercury is > in rapt conjunction with malefic Mars, closely opposed by Pluto. Natal Ketu > is in Hasta which is ruled by the Moon. Nixon's Moon rules the 12th house > of loss and is not doing him any favours placed in the 6th. So Ketu is > often bad news for wordly affairs, but it can be really bad if it is > associated with dusthana houses and malefics in the natal and transit > charts. > > So if a client comes to you wondering about career questions and you see > transit Rahu soon to aspect their 10th lord, I would *generally* be > optimistic -- although you really have to figure out all the other stuff as > well to get a sense that anything will happen. If Ketu is making that > transit, I would generally be pessimistic. OTOH, Bill Clinton got married > when transit Ketu was applying to his Moon. People can get married when > Ketu aspects natal Venus. It's all possible -- it depends what the natal > and transit influences are to the node or planet. And in some cases, > these apparent "hits" will have nothing at all to do with the major event in > question. They will only be background noise. > > Chris > > - > "cynthianovak" <cynthianovak@s...> > <gjlist> > Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:06 AM > RE: [GJ] Why nodes work > > > > Dear Chris > > You may be right. I've seen it work differently for different people. > The > > only thing I know for certain is that the the approaching transits are > > pretty big! TO cover my behind when working with a client I like to > > consider the whole month when ite undulates within a degree or two of the > > natal planet as really indicative of the node that is transiting. > > > > In simple terms: Rahu indicates a tendency to "lose your head" in some > way. > > You might really make money in the stock market, but may stay too long > (lose > > your head) and lose. Likewise with realtionships: you might meet a > really > > exciting new person and lose your head over it. > > > > With Ketu is seems very karmic or destined. Often it is literally a loss. > > Not something that you played into like Rahu, but something that is > > unavoidable. > > > > How do you interpret the transits of the nodes? I like to incorporate the > > myths of the nakshatras: If you have natal Rahu in, say Mula and the > 12th, > > you will more likely experience the transits of Rahu in an intense painful > > manner. If your RAhu is in Rohini (known for indulgence too)and in the > 5th, > > you may really get the benefit of the Rahu transit and very likely lose > your > > head to avarice. > > > > just some thoughts > > > > c > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > > : gjlist- > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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