Guest guest Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 Although I've been using the 1781 articles of Confederation chart as rectified by Ron Grimes for a while now, I would recommend list members take a good look at the USA chart for Jul 4 1776 2.17 pm. This chart has been widely used by some US astrologers for some time, although it is probably not among the top three choices. Quite by chance, I cast the chart today and was pleasantly surprised by its lagna: 17Libra03 (Lahiri). Given the Ketu nodal station on that degree for the past few months, a lot of the problems the USA has been facing abroad would appear to fit in nicely. However, in light of the Mars Saturn conjunction at 17Gemini, this ascendant should also not give comfort to Americans in the coming days and weeks. Clearly even greater problems are forecast with this chart, perhaps as soon as this week. The chart is running Moon-Jupiter dasha at the moment, and Jupiter 15Gemini10. The immediate stresses and tensions at home and abroad will likely not subside until Ketu's aspect moves away from Jupiter in June (but even then will run through lagnesh Venus soon enough afterwards). More immediately, Mars falls on the 9th equal house cusp today, while tr 12L Mercury is aspecting the ascendant today and tr Sun moves into a trouble area in the 8th house near the EHC at the end of the May. This Sun will also fall under the aspect of natal Ketu 15Cp47 to boot, pointing to trouble for leaders at that time. As if they don't have enough already... What's more tr Uranus is getting ready to station at 12Aq52 in the next two weeks so it is growing in power. This will also aspect a key point in this chart: lagnesh Venus 12Ge13 is trined by this slowing Uranus and so adds to the importance of present events and increases the likelihood of sudden developments (Uranus) in foreign countries (Venus in 9th) and home (Venus is lagnesh) in Gemini (communications and transportation). This scenario is only part of the larger transit picture. All in all, it's a very afflicted situation right now as one would expect. cheers, Chris Christopher Kevill http://modernVedic Astrology.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Hello Chris, Based on a reference to the time 2PM on 4 July 1776 in Nick Campion´s Book of World Horoscopes, I worked on a 14° Libra ascendant chart from late 1999 on SATVA and SAMVA lists. Based on further investigations, in late 2000 I revised the ascendant to 17° Libra and 2:18PM. I never saw this time and ascendant used elsewhere. That said, in September 2001, I stopped working on the 17° Libra rising chart for the USA as predictions based on it did not pan out. By comparison, the Grimes 21°Cancer rising USA chart (published in the ACVA Journal in 1996) has yielded accurate predictions, including the traumatic events in the Fall of 2001. Interestingly, the Libra rising chart seems to resonate very well with the benign idealism of the Founders and most Americans hold so dear. However, the Cancer rising chart seems to reflect reality better, including the global influence, participation in foreign wars, religious and materlistic tendencies, creative gifts, as well as problems with distribution and social harmony. With my best wishes, Thor Thorgeirsson gjlist, "Christopher Kevill" <christopher.kevill@s...> wrote: > Although I've been using the 1781 articles of Confederation chart as rectified by Ron Grimes for a while now, I would recommend list members take a good look at the USA chart for Jul 4 1776 2.17 pm. This chart has been widely used by some US astrologers for some time, although it is probably not among the top three choices. > > Quite by chance, I cast the chart today and was pleasantly surprised by its lagna: 17Libra03 (Lahiri). Given the Ketu nodal station on that degree for the past few months, a lot of the problems the USA has been facing abroad would appear to fit in nicely. However, in light of the Mars Saturn conjunction at 17Gemini, this ascendant should also not give comfort to Americans in the coming days and weeks. Clearly even greater problems are forecast with this chart, perhaps as soon as this week. > > The chart is running Moon-Jupiter dasha at the moment, and Jupiter 15Gemini10. The immediate stresses and tensions at home and abroad will likely not subside until Ketu's aspect moves away from Jupiter in June (but even then will run through lagnesh Venus soon enough afterwards). > > More immediately, Mars falls on the 9th equal house cusp today, while tr 12L Mercury is aspecting the ascendant today and tr Sun moves into a trouble area in the 8th house near the EHC at the end of the May. This Sun will also fall under the aspect of natal Ketu 15Cp47 to boot, pointing to trouble for leaders at that time. As if they don't have enough already... > > What's more tr Uranus is getting ready to station at 12Aq52 in the next two weeks so it is growing in power. This will also aspect a key point in this chart: lagnesh Venus 12Ge13 is trined by this slowing Uranus and so adds to the importance of present events and increases the likelihood of sudden developments (Uranus) in foreign countries (Venus in 9th) and home (Venus is lagnesh) in Gemini (communications and transportation). This scenario is only part of the larger transit picture. All in all, it's a very afflicted situation right now as one would expect. > > cheers, > Chris > > > Christopher Kevill > http://modernVedic Astrology.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Hello Chris, OK, I understand your point of view. That said, we should not make too much out of the difference between jyotish and SA, even if there is a difference when it comes to interpreting the functional nature of the planets for a given ascendant. Both approaches e.g. use the same zodiac, planets and Vimosattari Dasa system. In essence, SA practitioners find using the MT signs to qualify the functional nature of the planets (from Sun to Saturn, while treating the nodes as malefics) leads to greater predictive accuracy. There are some other differences, like orbs, etc. Importantly, SA is presented as a refinement of Jyotish in order to achieve better predictive accuracy. As with most of Jyotish, SA excludes the outer planets because they don´t fit into the logical framework of the ancient Vimsottari dasa system. The karma of humanity is successfully seen with the exisiting system. That said, the outer planets may well yield insights. However, the scientific application of astrological techniques using the outer planets is needed to resolve the question of their influence. Speaking of a scientific approach, please advise if you have luck making accurate predictions against this chart based on the techniques you use. While hindsight is important for rectification purposes, it doesn´t qualify as proof of the authenticity of a chart. Ultimately, only through repeat accurate predictions are we able to verify the authenticity of mundane charts. With my best wishes, Thor Thorgeirsson gjlist, "Christopher Kevill" <christopher.kevill@s...> wrote: > Hi Thor, > > - > "thorsteinnt" <thorsteinnt> > <gjlist> > Sunday, May 30, 2004 7:41 AM > [GJ] Re: USA chart > > > Hello Chris, > > Based on a reference to the time 2PM on 4 July 1776 in Nick > Campion´s Book of World Horoscopes, I worked on a 14° Libra > ascendant chart from late 1999 on SATVA and SAMVA lists. Based on > further investigations, in late 2000 I revised the ascendant to > 17° Libra and 2:18PM. I never saw this time and ascendant used > elsewhere. That said, in September 2001, I stopped working on the > 17° Libra rising chart for the USA as predictions based on it did > not pan out. > > ***Thanks for weighing in on this question. Interesting that you were > working on this chart also! In my view, charts are finicky things and do > not yield their gold to all comers. I have found that some charts work > better with certain techniques or approaches -- perhaps this is one such > case. This may appear strange from a scientific perspective which demands > clear cut 'A/not-A' type replicability, but so be it. I don't know how > astrology works and I dont' think anyone really does. I have also found > that we can use more than one charts to understand and predict mundane > events. So I'm not saying that this is THE chart for the USA -- just that > it's worth consideration for a number of compelling reasons. Your work only > showed that this 2.17 pm chart did not work using Systems Approach, not that > it wouldn't work using other tools of interpretation. > > ***As for paternity, Marc Penfield has written about it (although there > might be slight variations in the time) and even gives it brownie points > for corresponding with certain documented historical facts involving the > signing of the Declaration of Independence. And recently I discovered that > the Magi Society also uses this time. Given their commitment to > predictively useable charts, this is an endorsement I take seriously. > > By comparison, the Grimes 21°Cancer rising USA chart (published in > the ACVA Journal in 1996) has yielded accurate predictions, including > the traumatic events in the Fall of 2001. > > Interestingly, the Libra rising chart seems to resonate very well > with the benign idealism of the Founders and most Americans hold so > dear. However, the Cancer rising chart seems to reflect reality > better, including the global influence, participation in foreign > wars, religious and materlistic tendencies, creative gifts, as well > as problems with distribution and social harmony. > > ***I don't really see the Libra rising as a benign whitewash about the US. > There are problems aplenty in the chart. Sun is squared by a 12th house > Saturn suggesting secrets involving leaders and loss of leaders and then > there is the very close Mars Neptune square which clearly points to > nefarious uses of the military. Of course, you may not see these as > afflictions if you restrict your analysis to traditional planets or Systems' > Approach own approach of house rulerships. We can only see > what our paradigms allow us to see. > > ***That said, it is only one chart among many and certainly other charts > like the Grimes chart can provide another useful snapshot of the USA. > > cheers, > Chris > > > With my best wishes, > > Thor Thorgeirsson > > gjlist, "Christopher Kevill" > <christopher.kevill@s...> wrote: > > Although I've been using the 1781 articles of Confederation chart > as rectified by Ron Grimes for a while now, I would recommend list > members take a good look at the USA chart for Jul 4 1776 2.17 pm. > This chart has been widely used by some US astrologers for some time, > although it is probably not among the top three choices. > > > > Quite by chance, I cast the chart today and was pleasantly > surprised by its lagna: 17Libra03 (Lahiri). Given the Ketu nodal > station on that degree for the past few months, a lot of the problems > the USA has been facing abroad would appear to fit in nicely. > However, in light of the Mars Saturn conjunction at 17Gemini, this > ascendant should also not give comfort to Americans in the coming > days and weeks. Clearly even greater problems are forecast with this > chart, perhaps as soon as this week. > > > > The chart is running Moon-Jupiter dasha at the moment, and Jupiter > 15Gemini10. The immediate stresses and tensions at home and abroad > will likely not subside until Ketu's aspect moves away from Jupiter > in June (but even then will run through lagnesh Venus soon enough > afterwards). > > > > More immediately, Mars falls on the 9th equal house cusp today, > while tr 12L Mercury is aspecting the ascendant today and tr Sun > moves into a trouble area in the 8th house near the EHC at the end of > the May. This Sun will also fall under the aspect of natal Ketu > 15Cp47 to boot, pointing to trouble for leaders at that time. As if > they don't have enough already... > > > > What's more tr Uranus is getting ready to station at 12Aq52 in the > next two weeks so it is growing in power. This will also aspect a > key point in this chart: lagnesh Venus 12Ge13 is trined by this > slowing Uranus and so adds to the importance of present events and > increases the likelihood of sudden developments (Uranus) in foreign > countries (Venus in 9th) and home (Venus is lagnesh) in Gemini > (communications and transportation). This scenario is only part of > the larger transit picture. All in all, it's a very afflicted > situation right now as one would expect. > > > > cheers, > > Chris > > > > > > Christopher Kevill > > http://modernVedic Astrology.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2004 Report Share Posted May 30, 2004 Hi Thor, - "thorsteinnt" <thorsteinnt <gjlist> Sunday, May 30, 2004 7:41 AM [GJ] Re: USA chart Hello Chris, Based on a reference to the time 2PM on 4 July 1776 in Nick Campion´s Book of World Horoscopes, I worked on a 14° Libra ascendant chart from late 1999 on SATVA and SAMVA lists. Based on further investigations, in late 2000 I revised the ascendant to 17° Libra and 2:18PM. I never saw this time and ascendant used elsewhere. That said, in September 2001, I stopped working on the 17° Libra rising chart for the USA as predictions based on it did not pan out. ***Thanks for weighing in on this question. Interesting that you were working on this chart also! In my view, charts are finicky things and do not yield their gold to all comers. I have found that some charts work better with certain techniques or approaches -- perhaps this is one such case. This may appear strange from a scientific perspective which demands clear cut 'A/not-A' type replicability, but so be it. I don't know how astrology works and I dont' think anyone really does. I have also found that we can use more than one charts to understand and predict mundane events. So I'm not saying that this is THE chart for the USA -- just that it's worth consideration for a number of compelling reasons. Your work only showed that this 2.17 pm chart did not work using Systems Approach, not that it wouldn't work using other tools of interpretation. ***As for paternity, Marc Penfield has written about it (although there might be slight variations in the time) and even gives it brownie points for corresponding with certain documented historical facts involving the signing of the Declaration of Independence. And recently I discovered that the Magi Society also uses this time. Given their commitment to predictively useable charts, this is an endorsement I take seriously. By comparison, the Grimes 21°Cancer rising USA chart (published in the ACVA Journal in 1996) has yielded accurate predictions, including the traumatic events in the Fall of 2001. Interestingly, the Libra rising chart seems to resonate very well with the benign idealism of the Founders and most Americans hold so dear. However, the Cancer rising chart seems to reflect reality better, including the global influence, participation in foreign wars, religious and materlistic tendencies, creative gifts, as well as problems with distribution and social harmony. ***I don't really see the Libra rising as a benign whitewash about the US. There are problems aplenty in the chart. Sun is squared by a 12th house Saturn suggesting secrets involving leaders and loss of leaders and then there is the very close Mars Neptune square which clearly points to nefarious uses of the military. Of course, you may not see these as afflictions if you restrict your analysis to traditional planets or Systems' Approach own approach of house rulerships. We can only see what our paradigms allow us to see. ***That said, it is only one chart among many and certainly other charts like the Grimes chart can provide another useful snapshot of the USA. cheers, Chris With my best wishes, Thor Thorgeirsson gjlist, "Christopher Kevill" <christopher.kevill@s...> wrote: > Although I've been using the 1781 articles of Confederation chart as rectified by Ron Grimes for a while now, I would recommend list members take a good look at the USA chart for Jul 4 1776 2.17 pm. This chart has been widely used by some US astrologers for some time, although it is probably not among the top three choices. > > Quite by chance, I cast the chart today and was pleasantly surprised by its lagna: 17Libra03 (Lahiri). Given the Ketu nodal station on that degree for the past few months, a lot of the problems the USA has been facing abroad would appear to fit in nicely. However, in light of the Mars Saturn conjunction at 17Gemini, this ascendant should also not give comfort to Americans in the coming days and weeks. Clearly even greater problems are forecast with this chart, perhaps as soon as this week. > > The chart is running Moon-Jupiter dasha at the moment, and Jupiter 15Gemini10. The immediate stresses and tensions at home and abroad will likely not subside until Ketu's aspect moves away from Jupiter in June (but even then will run through lagnesh Venus soon enough afterwards). > > More immediately, Mars falls on the 9th equal house cusp today, while tr 12L Mercury is aspecting the ascendant today and tr Sun moves into a trouble area in the 8th house near the EHC at the end of the May. This Sun will also fall under the aspect of natal Ketu 15Cp47 to boot, pointing to trouble for leaders at that time. As if they don't have enough already... > > What's more tr Uranus is getting ready to station at 12Aq52 in the next two weeks so it is growing in power. This will also aspect a key point in this chart: lagnesh Venus 12Ge13 is trined by this slowing Uranus and so adds to the importance of present events and increases the likelihood of sudden developments (Uranus) in foreign countries (Venus in 9th) and home (Venus is lagnesh) in Gemini (communications and transportation). This scenario is only part of the larger transit picture. All in all, it's a very afflicted situation right now as one would expect. > > cheers, > Chris > > > Christopher Kevill > http://modernVedic Astrology.com > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat : gjlist- Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 Swasdi Chris, I think both standard and Ron's charts can give accurate result. It all depends on the way one delineates. Regards, Harit ================================ gjlist, "Christopher Kevill" <christopher.kevill@s...> wrote: > Hi Thor, > > - > "thorsteinnt" <thorsteinnt> > <gjlist> > Sunday, May 30, 2004 7:41 AM > [GJ] Re: USA chart > > > Hello Chris, > > Based on a reference to the time 2PM on 4 July 1776 in Nick > Campion´s Book of World Horoscopes, I worked on a 14° Libra > ascendant chart from late 1999 on SATVA and SAMVA lists. Based on > further investigations, in late 2000 I revised the ascendant to > 17° Libra and 2:18PM. I never saw this time and ascendant used > elsewhere. That said, in September 2001, I stopped working on the > 17° Libra rising chart for the USA as predictions based on it did > not pan out. > > ***Thanks for weighing in on this question. Interesting that you were > working on this chart also! In my view, charts are finicky things and do= > not yield their gold to all comers. I have found that some charts work > better with certain techniques or approaches -- perhaps this is one such > case. This may appear strange from a scientific perspective which demands > clear cut 'A/not-A' type replicability, but so be it. I don't know how > astrology works and I dont' think anyone really does. I have also found > that we can use more than one charts to understand and predict mundane > events. So I'm not saying that this is THE chart for the USA -- just tha= t > it's worth consideration for a number of compelling reasons. Your work only > showed that this 2.17 pm chart did not work using Systems Approach, not that > it wouldn't work using other tools of interpretation. > > ***As for paternity, Marc Penfield has written about it (although there > might be slight variations in the time) and even gives it brownie points= > for corresponding with certain documented historical facts involving the > signing of the Declaration of Independence. And recently I discovered that > the Magi Society also uses this time. Given their commitment to > predictively useable charts, this is an endorsement I take seriously. > > By comparison, the Grimes 21°Cancer rising USA chart (published in > the ACVA Journal in 1996) has yielded accurate predictions, including > the traumatic events in the Fall of 2001. > > Interestingly, the Libra rising chart seems to resonate very well > with the benign idealism of the Founders and most Americans hold so > dear. However, the Cancer rising chart seems to reflect reality > better, including the global influence, participation in foreign > wars, religious and materlistic tendencies, creative gifts, as well > as problems with distribution and social harmony. > > ***I don't really see the Libra rising as a benign whitewash about the US. > There are problems aplenty in the chart. Sun is squared by a 12th house > Saturn suggesting secrets involving leaders and loss of leaders and then > there is the very close Mars Neptune square which clearly points to > nefarious uses of the military. Of course, you may not see these as > afflictions if you restrict your analysis to traditional planets or Syste= ms' > Approach own approach of house rulerships. We can only see > what our paradigms allow us to see. > > ***That said, it is only one chart among many and certainly other charts > like the Grimes chart can provide another useful snapshot of the USA. > > cheers, > Chris > > > With my best wishes, > > Thor Thorgeirsson > > gjlist, "Christopher Kevill" > <christopher.kevill@s...> wrote: > > Although I've been using the 1781 articles of Confederation chart > as rectified by Ron Grimes for a while now, I would recommend list > members take a good look at the USA chart for Jul 4 1776 2.17 pm. > This chart has been widely used by some US astrologers for some time, > although it is probably not among the top three choices. > > > > Quite by chance, I cast the chart today and was pleasantly > surprised by its lagna: 17Libra03 (Lahiri). Given the Ketu nodal > station on that degree for the past few months, a lot of the problems > the USA has been facing abroad would appear to fit in nicely. > However, in light of the Mars Saturn conjunction at 17Gemini, this > ascendant should also not give comfort to Americans in the coming > days and weeks. Clearly even greater problems are forecast with this > chart, perhaps as soon as this week. > > > > The chart is running Moon-Jupiter dasha at the moment, and Jupiter > 15Gemini10. The immediate stresses and tensions at home and abroad > will likely not subside until Ketu's aspect moves away from Jupiter > in June (but even then will run through lagnesh Venus soon enough > afterwards). > > > > More immediately, Mars falls on the 9th equal house cusp today, > while tr 12L Mercury is aspecting the ascendant today and tr Sun > moves into a trouble area in the 8th house near the EHC at the end of > the May. This Sun will also fall under the aspect of natal Ketu > 15Cp47 to boot, pointing to trouble for leaders at that time. As if > they don't have enough already... > > > > What's more tr Uranus is getting ready to station at 12Aq52 in the > next two weeks so it is growing in power. This will also aspect a > key point in this chart: lagnesh Venus 12Ge13 is trined by this > slowing Uranus and so adds to the importance of present events and > increases the likelihood of sudden developments (Uranus) in foreign > countries (Venus in 9th) and home (Venus is lagnesh) in Gemini > (communications and transportation). This scenario is only part of > the larger transit picture. All in all, it's a very afflicted > situation right now as one would expect. > > > > cheers, > > Chris > > > > > > Christopher Kevill > > http://modernVedic Astrology.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya; Hare Krishna; Om Tat Sat > : gjlist- > > > Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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