Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Jola, Ideally, human beings have the capacity to change the circumstances around them. This has been written by enlightened authors from various traditions, including the Hindu and Judeo-Christian traditions. However, we are challenged in recognizing how the gunas are affecting us. Often times, we act impulsively or justify things according to our dogmas and belief. This is the reason for the violence and hatred that we see in the US or elsewhere in the world. In either case, we are influenced by the gunas. The Gita and the Christian scriptures have addressed the solution to this problem. That is, be without the gunas. Or, in the biblical sense, turn the other cheek. I believe this is the key to solving the world's problems. This solution does not show the seemingly weak alternative that humans have. But it gives us the clue to becoming masters over our nature, perhaps even Nature. There is hidden power from the unseen laws of nature. If these laws are violated, nature reacts violently as in the explosion due to the splitting of the atom. If these laws are respected, nature rewards humans as well with bliss and prosperity. Namaste, John R. valist, Aikido108@a... wrote: > Hi John R. > Continuing the dialogue, it is true as you state that a certain action begets > a similar reaction. However, this has been the case since the beginning of > time not jut the Bush presidency. Karmic roots sprout since "the battle between > the Kauravas and Pandavas began." The Bhagavad Gita starts with two armies > gathered and poised for battle. At that point it's still "potential" karmas > waiting to be played out. Once the battle begins, karmic laws kick in and we find > ourselves deeply into a long ongoing complexity. > > Iraqis, Afghans, Americans, Brits, Poles, Aussies and all others are equally > involved acting out their karmas, knowingly or unknowingly, since beginning of > time. And from one point of view everything is probably exactly as it should > be. > > But from the point of view of a person who believes in a separate self that > is able to act independently, it's a mess impossible to be understood and even > less controlled towards a specific outcome. Which does not mean that we throw > up our hands and give up acting. We all have our dharma to adhere to. Some of > us are warriors, others are teachers, servants or merchants, others yet are > still confused… > > War, life, birth, death, sickness, triumph, good and bad are part of the play > of the relative field of existence. Like a jungle with animals eating each > other, plants decaying and making compost for other plants, there never was > meant to be a time of "more" peace, "less" death or anything other than what > actually is. > > To presume to know better what the ultimate purpose of creation and life > "should be" is rather ambitious. To the degree that we see ourselves as a separate > entity independent from the larger order, we suffer. This is what we call > suffering from our human, ego-based perspective. To overcome this form of > suffering (which is probably the only form of suffering that exists) we need to > understand that in reality that which we call a separate self/person/ego, i.e. the > stuff of the three gunas, merely responds to the laws of karma and dharma that > have been at work since forever and we can only see the tip of this iceberg. > > Our individual freedom or liberation comes from rendering the three gunas > transparent, not abolishing or changing them. > > The big mistake most people make is to fall for the Marxist ideology wherein > the gunas is all there is and we "better distribute them fairly," that's > usually referred to as utopia. Another mistake, somewhat less big, is the > capitalist notion that an individual can achieve private utopia by hard work and > effort. Look around. There is not much of either utopia to be seen; but given a > choice which system is better, I would opt for the one permitting a larger > degree of freedom. You figure out yourself which it is for you. Change yourself to > adapt to the world, or make the world adapt to you. > > Jola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Wonderful John. You write so WELL. It is a pleasure to read. You are gifted. Vaidun Vidyadhar 1 / 94 Marius Street Tamworth, NSW 2340 Australia Tel: 61-2-67 668428 (home) Mobile: 0414 870 083 Email: vvidya John [jr_esq] Thursday, 11 November 2004 7:41 AM valist Re: Karmas and Dharmas - for Jola Jola, Ideally, human beings have the capacity to change the circumstances around them. This has been written by enlightened authors from various traditions, including the Hindu and Judeo-Christian traditions. However, we are challenged in recognizing how the gunas are affecting us. Often times, we act impulsively or justify things according to our dogmas and belief. This is the reason for the violence and hatred that we see in the US or elsewhere in the world. In either case, we are influenced by the gunas. The Gita and the Christian scriptures have addressed the solution to this problem. That is, be without the gunas. Or, in the biblical sense, turn the other cheek. I believe this is the key to solving the world's problems. This solution does not show the seemingly weak alternative that humans have. But it gives us the clue to becoming masters over our nature, perhaps even Nature. There is hidden power from the unseen laws of nature. If these laws are violated, nature reacts violently as in the explosion due to the splitting of the atom. If these laws are respected, nature rewards humans as well with bliss and prosperity. Namaste, John R. valist, Aikido108@a... wrote: > Hi John R. > Continuing the dialogue, it is true as you state that a certain action begets > a similar reaction. However, this has been the case since the beginning of > time not jut the Bush presidency. Karmic roots sprout since "the battle between > the Kauravas and Pandavas began." The Bhagavad Gita starts with two armies > gathered and poised for battle. At that point it's still "potential" karmas > waiting to be played out. Once the battle begins, karmic laws kick in and we find > ourselves deeply into a long ongoing complexity. > > Iraqis, Afghans, Americans, Brits, Poles, Aussies and all others are equally > involved acting out their karmas, knowingly or unknowingly, since beginning of > time. And from one point of view everything is probably exactly as it should > be. > > But from the point of view of a person who believes in a separate self that > is able to act independently, it's a mess impossible to be understood and even > less controlled towards a specific outcome. Which does not mean that we throw > up our hands and give up acting. We all have our dharma to adhere to. Some of > us are warriors, others are teachers, servants or merchants, others yet are > still confused… > > War, life, birth, death, sickness, triumph, good and bad are part of the play > of the relative field of existence. Like a jungle with animals eating each > other, plants decaying and making compost for other plants, there never was > meant to be a time of "more" peace, "less" death or anything other than what > actually is. > > To presume to know better what the ultimate purpose of creation and life > "should be" is rather ambitious. To the degree that we see ourselves as a separate > entity independent from the larger order, we suffer. This is what we call > suffering from our human, ego-based perspective. To overcome this form of > suffering (which is probably the only form of suffering that exists) we need to > understand that in reality that which we call a separate self/person/ego, i.e. the > stuff of the three gunas, merely responds to the laws of karma and dharma that > have been at work since forever and we can only see the tip of this iceberg. > > Our individual freedom or liberation comes from rendering the three gunas > transparent, not abolishing or changing them. > > The big mistake most people make is to fall for the Marxist ideology wherein > the gunas is all there is and we "better distribute them fairly," that's > usually referred to as utopia. Another mistake, somewhat less big, is the > capitalist notion that an individual can achieve private utopia by hard work and > effort. Look around. There is not much of either utopia to be seen; but given a > choice which system is better, I would opt for the one permitting a larger > degree of freedom. You figure out yourself which it is for you. Change yourself to > adapt to the world, or make the world adapt to you. > > Jola Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Dear List, Hare Krishna. In reply to Jola and John, I may add that Dharma and Karma which are performed as service to the Supreme Lord as instructed to Arjuna by Lord Shri Krishna to which Arjuna totally follwed not only frees one from Karma but awakens one's dormant love for Shri Krishna also which leads to the Happiest and Peaceful life towards the path of the Vaikhuntha Loka progressively. Hari Bol. With my best wishes....................Amar Puri. >"John" <jr_esq >valist >valist >Re: Karmas and Dharmas - for Jola >Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:41:25 -0000 > > > >Jola, > >Ideally, human beings have the capacity to change the circumstances >around them. This has been written by enlightened authors from >various traditions, including the Hindu and Judeo-Christian >traditions. However, we are challenged in recognizing how the gunas >are affecting us. Often times, we act impulsively or justify things >according to our dogmas and belief. This is the reason for the >violence and hatred that we see in the US or elsewhere in the world. >In either case, we are influenced by the gunas. > >The Gita and the Christian scriptures have addressed the solution to >this problem. That is, be without the gunas. Or, in the biblical >sense, turn the other cheek. I believe this is the key to solving >the world's problems. This solution does not show the seemingly weak >alternative that humans have. But it gives us the clue to becoming >masters over our nature, perhaps even Nature. > >There is hidden power from the unseen laws of nature. If these laws >are violated, nature reacts violently as in the explosion due to the >splitting of the atom. If these laws are respected, nature rewards >humans as well with bliss and prosperity. > >Namaste, > >John R. > > > > > > >valist, Aikido108@a... wrote: > > Hi John R. > > Continuing the dialogue, it is true as you state that a certain >action begets > > a similar reaction. However, this has been the case since the >beginning of > > time not jut the Bush presidency. Karmic roots sprout since "the >battle between > > the Kauravas and Pandavas began." The Bhagavad Gita starts with two >armies > > gathered and poised for battle. At that point it's >still "potential" karmas > > waiting to be played out. Once the battle begins, karmic laws kick >in and we find > > ourselves deeply into a long ongoing complexity. > > > > Iraqis, Afghans, Americans, Brits, Poles, Aussies and all others >are equally > > involved acting out their karmas, knowingly or unknowingly, since >beginning of > > time. And from one point of view everything is probably exactly as >it should > > be. > > > > But from the point of view of a person who believes in a separate >self that > > is able to act independently, it's a mess impossible to be >understood and even > > less controlled towards a specific outcome. Which does not mean >that we throw > > up our hands and give up acting. We all have our dharma to adhere >to. Some of > > us are warriors, others are teachers, servants or merchants, others >yet are > > still confused… > > > > War, life, birth, death, sickness, triumph, good and bad are part >of the play > > of the relative field of existence. Like a jungle with animals >eating each > > other, plants decaying and making compost for other plants, there >never was > > meant to be a time of "more" peace, "less" death or anything other >than what > > actually is. > > > > To presume to know better what the ultimate purpose of creation and >life > > "should be" is rather ambitious. To the degree that we see >ourselves as a separate > > entity independent from the larger order, we suffer. This is what >we call > > suffering from our human, ego-based perspective. To overcome this >form of > > suffering (which is probably the only form of suffering that >exists) we need to > > understand that in reality that which we call a separate >self/person/ego, i.e. the > > stuff of the three gunas, merely responds to the laws of karma and >dharma that > > have been at work since forever and we can only see the tip of this >iceberg. > > > > Our individual freedom or liberation comes from rendering the three >gunas > > transparent, not abolishing or changing them. > > > > The big mistake most people make is to fall for the Marxist >ideology wherein > > the gunas is all there is and we "better distribute them fairly," >that's > > usually referred to as utopia. Another mistake, somewhat less big, >is the > > capitalist notion that an individual can achieve private utopia by >hard work and > > effort. Look around. There is not much of either utopia to be seen; >but given a > > choice which system is better, I would opt for the one permitting a >larger > > degree of freedom. You figure out yourself which it is for you. >Change yourself to > > adapt to the world, or make the world adapt to you. > > > > Jola > Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Vaidun, Thank you. Perhaps Nature is working with me today. Namaste, John R. valist, "Vaidun Vidyadhar" <vvidya@o...> wrote: > > Wonderful John. You write so WELL. It is a pleasure to read. You are gifted. > > Vaidun Vidyadhar > 1 / 94 Marius Street > Tamworth, NSW 2340 > Australia > Tel: 61-2-67 668428 (home) > Mobile: 0414 870 083 > Email: vvidya@o... > > > > > > John [jr_esq] > Thursday, 11 November 2004 7:41 AM > valist > Re: Karmas and Dharmas - for Jola > > > > Jola, > > Ideally, human beings have the capacity to change the circumstances around them. This has been written by enlightened authors from various traditions, including the Hindu and Judeo-Christian traditions. However, we are challenged in recognizing how the gunas are affecting us. Often times, we act impulsively or justify things according to our dogmas and belief. This is the reason for the violence and hatred that we see in the US or elsewhere in the world. > In either case, we are influenced by the gunas. > > The Gita and the Christian scriptures have addressed the solution to this problem. That is, be without the gunas. Or, in the biblical sense, turn the other cheek. I believe this is the key to solving the world's problems. This solution does not show the seemingly weak alternative that humans have. But it gives us the clue to becoming masters over our nature, perhaps even Nature. > > There is hidden power from the unseen laws of nature. If these laws are violated, nature reacts violently as in the explosion due to the splitting of the atom. If these laws are respected, nature rewards humans as well with bliss and prosperity. > > Namaste, > > John R. valist, Aikido108@a... wrote: > > Hi John R. > > Continuing the dialogue, it is true as you state that a certain > action begets > > a similar reaction. However, this has been the case since the > beginning of > > time not jut the Bush presidency. Karmic roots sprout since "the > battle between > > the Kauravas and Pandavas began." The Bhagavad Gita starts with two > armies > > gathered and poised for battle. At that point it's > still "potential" karmas > > waiting to be played out. Once the battle begins, karmic laws kick > in and we find > > ourselves deeply into a long ongoing complexity. > > > > Iraqis, Afghans, Americans, Brits, Poles, Aussies and all others > are equally > > involved acting out their karmas, knowingly or unknowingly, since > beginning of > > time. And from one point of view everything is probably exactly as > it should > > be. > > > > But from the point of view of a person who believes in a separate > self that > > is able to act independently, it's a mess impossible to be > understood and even > > less controlled towards a specific outcome. Which does not mean > that we throw > > up our hands and give up acting. We all have our dharma to adhere > to. Some of > > us are warriors, others are teachers, servants or merchants, others > yet are > > still confused… > > > > War, life, birth, death, sickness, triumph, good and bad are part > of the play > > of the relative field of existence. Like a jungle with animals > eating each > > other, plants decaying and making compost for other plants, there > never was > > meant to be a time of "more" peace, "less" death or anything other > than what > > actually is. > > > > To presume to know better what the ultimate purpose of creation and > life > > "should be" is rather ambitious. To the degree that we see > ourselves as a separate > > entity independent from the larger order, we suffer. This is what > we call > > suffering from our human, ego-based perspective. To overcome this > form of > > suffering (which is probably the only form of suffering that > exists) we need to > > understand that in reality that which we call a separate > self/person/ego, i.e. the > > stuff of the three gunas, merely responds to the laws of karma and > dharma that > > have been at work since forever and we can only see the tip of this > iceberg. > > > > Our individual freedom or liberation comes from rendering the three > gunas > > transparent, not abolishing or changing them. > > > > The big mistake most people make is to fall for the Marxist > ideology wherein > > the gunas is all there is and we "better distribute them fairly," > that's > > usually referred to as utopia. Another mistake, somewhat less big, > is the > > capitalist notion that an individual can achieve private utopia by > hard work and > > effort. Look around. There is not much of either utopia to be seen; > but given a > > choice which system is better, I would opt for the one permitting a > larger > > degree of freedom. You figure out yourself which it is for you. > Change yourself to > > adapt to the world, or make the world adapt to you. > > > > Jola > > > > > > > > Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.