Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 http://www.pbase.com/clodreno/image/23443835 Hello Sabine sent me this link, thanks Sabine. It¹s about a wedding in Ladakh. It¹s all pictures, like a slideshow. So check it out for beautiful images from a wedding in Ladakh. I noticed things like hand made clothing and the artwork. These things interest me because it gives a window to the very look of truly indigenous items and lifestyles. This reminds of ancient gatherings that took place all over the world, including modern Europe and modern America. I imagine what my own ancestors had in common with this gather...the wool clothing and ancestral styles... Just change a few items, like skin color and patterns in the design, and otherwise you¹ve got a Celtic village in France 2500 years ago... The horses, simple housing, the clothes, designs, village life, customs, etc. Notice the overt and heavy use of one type of blue rock in the head dressings, something somewhat valuable- turquoise. So in ancient times (and still today in some places) people would invade another nation just to pillage something like that, for business, for money. I could never understand this mentality myself. I cannot condone raiding and killing for one¹s business pursuits. Notice the Swastika on the first slide. This hopefully doesn¹t shock anyone on this list by now. The Swastika is heavily used in India and the nations around it, as part of the ancient sacred symbolism as we¹ve been discussing. That is why some say ³Hitler stole it from India², but in fact, that¹s not true, as the symbol is also found on pottery and other such items from Europe through archaeological digs there- and it¹s found on the pottery and jewelry and other items of all the peoples of ancient Europe pretty much. Das Goravani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Hello dear Das and the List members, Hare Krishna. It is all well accepted in the whole wide world that the ancient written language is the Sanskrit and the Sanskrit is the language of the time less Vedas in spoken and written form prior to any other discovery of other language. As else where Dawn one of the member on this forum mentioned that the Lord Rama's two sons Luv and Kush ruled over the land of today's known country as China and Russia, therefore, it indicates that all the signs and symbles of Devi's and Devta including Swastika were and are part of the Vedic Culture because nothing else existed before as it historically proves further the very existence of the Maha Bharat episodes where Lord Shri Krishna spoke the divine instructions to Arjuna in the battle field of Kurukestra beside the confirmation of the Raja Suya Yagya performed by Maharaja Yudhistra as the king of planet earth after winning the battle of Maha Bharat i.e. all over the world. Is it not possible that the people today's known as Celts and other parts of the today's Europe and the inhabitants thereof at that time were Yadu's dynesty ? As the time passed by generation after generation before the era of our Lord Jesus and at the beginning of the Kaliyuga, due to the change of time and the mental compacity of the people the the things changed with the due course of time and so many different group of people along with the theories came in to existence to claim their originallity. Why I say that, you may ask. It is an other one of the indication of the Tibetian people showing on the clothes the sacred sign of Swastika at the marriage confirms the tradition of the Vedic Culture. Further, as you mentioned in your email, Das prabhu, that the symbol is also found on pottery and other such items from Europe through archaeological digs there- and it¹s found on the pottery and jewelry and other items of all the peoples of ancient Europe pretty much confirms the same very existence of the Vedic Culture. I truly and sincerely do believe that the readers may seriously begin to think about its originallity. Hari BOL. With my best wishes..................Amar Puri. >Das Goravani <> >valist ><valist> >Swastika Usage Today w/ Link >Sat, 05 Feb 2005 12:25:50 -0800 > > > > > >http://www.pbase.com/clodreno/image/23443835 > >Hello > >Sabine sent me this link, thanks Sabine. > >It¹s about a wedding in Ladakh. It¹s all pictures, like a slideshow. So >check it out for beautiful images from a wedding in Ladakh. > >I noticed things like hand made clothing and the artwork. These things >interest me because it gives a window to the very look of truly indigenous >items and lifestyles. This reminds of ancient gatherings that took place >all >over the world, including modern Europe and modern America. > >I imagine what my own ancestors had in common with this gather...the wool >clothing and ancestral styles... Just change a few items, like skin color >and patterns in the design, and otherwise you¹ve got a Celtic village in >France 2500 years ago... The horses, simple housing, the clothes, designs, >village life, customs, etc. > >Notice the overt and heavy use of one type of blue rock in the head >dressings, something somewhat valuable- turquoise. So in ancient times (and >still today in some places) people would invade another nation just to >pillage something like that, for business, for money. I could never >understand this mentality myself. I cannot condone raiding and killing for >one¹s business pursuits. > >Notice the Swastika on the first slide. This hopefully doesn¹t shock anyone >on this list by now. The Swastika is heavily used in India and the nations >around it, as part of the ancient sacred symbolism as we¹ve been >discussing. > >That is why some say ³Hitler stole it from India², but in fact, that¹s not >true, as the symbol is also found on pottery and other such items from >Europe through archaeological digs there- and it¹s found on the pottery and >jewelry and other items of all the peoples of ancient Europe pretty much. > > > >Das Goravani > > > Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Considering that Sri Ganesha is the primordial deity, and has to be worshiped before any other diety, and is extremely powerful, then His symbol has to be everywhere, by default. The fact that the knowledge about Him today does not exist in many countries outside India (until recently of course), does not invalidate that. Knowledge of a diety does not affect the existence of that diety. Being so powerful, His symbol has to have spread. What we see today is the remnants of that in ancient cultures everywhere. Its a human thing to assume that Sri Ganesha only belongs to India or Indian culture. A diety belongs to all cultures and all countries, or perhaps to none, as They are above that. India has perhaps managed to preserve that culture of spirituality intact more than any other place, and the knowledge of it, which has been lost elsewhere. Perhaps because so many dieties have taken birth there. I think what I am trying to say here, is that of course the symbols of Sri Ganesha would be found in Celtic or other art, as its a real thing, not mythology, even if today no one connects Sri Ganesha with the ancient Celts. The essence transcends time, culture everything. dawn valist, "fas fas" <foreignersassistance@h...> wrote: > Hello dear Das and the List members, > > Hare Krishna. > > It is all well accepted in the whole wide world that the ancient written > language is the Sanskrit and the Sanskrit is the language of the time less > Vedas in spoken and written form prior to any other discovery of other > language. > > As else where Dawn one of the member on this forum mentioned that the Lord > Rama's two sons Luv and Kush ruled over the land of today's known country as > China and Russia, therefore, it indicates that all the signs and symbles of > Devi's and Devta including Swastika were and are part of the Vedic Culture > because nothing else existed before as it historically proves further the > very existence of the Maha Bharat episodes where Lord Shri Krishna spoke the > divine instructions to Arjuna in the battle field of Kurukestra beside the > confirmation of the Raja Suya Yagya performed by Maharaja Yudhistra as the > king of planet earth after winning the battle of Maha Bharat i.e. all over > the world. > > Is it not possible that the people today's known as Celts and other parts of > the today's Europe and the inhabitants thereof at that time were Yadu's > dynesty ? > > As the time passed by generation after generation before the era of our Lord > Jesus and at the beginning of the Kaliyuga, due to the change of time and > the mental compacity of the people the the things changed with the due > course of time and so many different group of people along with the > theories came in to existence to claim their originallity. > > Why I say that, you may ask. It is an other one of the indication of the > Tibetian people showing on the clothes the sacred sign of Swastika at the > marriage confirms the tradition of the Vedic Culture. > > Further, as you mentioned in your email, Das prabhu, that the symbol is > also found on pottery and other such items from Europe through > archaeological digs there- and it¹s found on the pottery and jewelry and > other items of all the peoples of ancient Europe pretty much confirms the > same very existence of the Vedic Culture. > > I truly and sincerely do believe that the readers may seriously begin to > think about its originallity. > > Hari BOL. > > With my best wishes..................Amar Puri. > > > > >Das Goravani <das@g...> > >valist > ><valist> > >Swastika Usage Today w/ Link > >Sat, 05 Feb 2005 12:25:50 -0800 > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.pbase.com/clodreno/image/23443835 > > > >Hello > > > >Sabine sent me this link, thanks Sabine. > > > >It¹s about a wedding in Ladakh. It¹s all pictures, like a slideshow. So > >check it out for beautiful images from a wedding in Ladakh. > > > >I noticed things like hand made clothing and the artwork. These things > >interest me because it gives a window to the very look of truly indigenous > >items and lifestyles. This reminds of ancient gatherings that took place > >all > >over the world, including modern Europe and modern America. > > > >I imagine what my own ancestors had in common with this gather...the wool > >clothing and ancestral styles... Just change a few items, like skin color > >and patterns in the design, and otherwise you¹ve got a Celtic village in > >France 2500 years ago... The horses, simple housing, the clothes, designs, > >village life, customs, etc. > > > >Notice the overt and heavy use of one type of blue rock in the head > >dressings, something somewhat valuable- turquoise. So in ancient times (and > >still today in some places) people would invade another nation just to > >pillage something like that, for business, for money. I could never > >understand this mentality myself. I cannot condone raiding and killing for > >one¹s business pursuits. > > > >Notice the Swastika on the first slide. This hopefully doesn¹t shock anyone > >on this list by now. The Swastika is heavily used in India and the nations > >around it, as part of the ancient sacred symbolism as we¹ve been > >discussing. > > > >That is why some say ³Hitler stole it from India², but in fact, that¹s not > >true, as the symbol is also found on pottery and other such items from > >Europe through archaeological digs there- and it¹s found on the pottery and > >jewelry and other items of all the peoples of ancient Europe pretty much. > > > > > > > >Das Goravani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Well, the total believers for Vedic culture and deities are chiming in and stating that Vedic culture was everywhere and that Vedic deities are the most primordial. I've come to dislike totalitarian statements from religious faithful (I know, I used to do it), but I must admit, no religion has so much the right to act that way as Vedic does, with it's antiquity and breadth. Very hard to beat! Unbeatable! True, being material, all things in this world had to have a beginning, including the human race- it had to either have been 1. dropped off by spaceship 2. Manifest in one place then spread 3. Manifest in many places similarly We don't seem to know which it is at this time, or if we do, we're not telling each other clearly enough for all to get it yet. The swastika- seems particular enough to not just auto pop up in exactly the same form all over the world, so one tends to think it spread from somewhere. It's also easy to draw, looks nice, and looks cool, attractive, so, if it were shown, it would tend to stick, hence one traveling Brahmin 3000 years ago in Europe is all it would take for it's introduction and eventual wide spread there- wouldn't take much. For example, the triskalian, the 3 pointed star so popular in Celtic art, is popping up on everything now in America, because it LOOKS COOL and for no other reason. There are no findings of elephant heads on anything in Europe. Period. I haven't seen an elephant head on ANYTHING found in ALL of Europe from ancient times in archaeological books, but you do find other similar things, like Goat's heads on a human body, in other words, you find animals native to the place as being deity parts. There certainly could have been one huge kingdom- even Rome controlled government in all of Europe, and much of Asia in it's day, and Greece had a huge empire at one point. It's certainly believable that before recorded history, and before remembered history, India too had it's time in ruling the world, more or less. When I see, as I have, the very very dark people of South India and Africa, and the very very white people of Denmark, I'm struck as to how these two could evolve from one, but it is possible, and conceivable. It's also possible that they came from on the one hand the same original stock, and then on the other hand got input of DNA from outside sources, alien sources, or that various demigods started their own "downlines" on Earth. We don¹t know. Of all the creation tales from various cultures I've heard, the Vedic one is the most complete, well documented and even believeable. Some are very vague in comparison, and some, like Irish, don't have a creation tale at all. Of course, the Irish and Celts have to be forgiven this in the now because in the "then" they were against writing, and what is preserved was done so by outsiders moreso. The true ancient Celtic beliefs are unknown, and will remain so, it seems, like an extinct animal, they're gone. We do know that at the time Krishna and the Pandavas were purported to have existed, say 5000 years ago, at that same time Egypt was thriving in it's own way, which was very different from Vedic. We have archaeological records of many other cultures existing at that time as well, all with differing cultures from Vedic- other Gods, other Rites and Rituals, other Dress, other Alphabet, etc etc. So the world was not "one completely" 5000 years ago, certainly not. However, it is possible that there was a great civilization holding sway and power over the others, that could be so. But for one big Vedic culture with Sanskrit spoken worldwide and Vedic everything spread worldwide, there is no evidence of that other than the small pieces of evidence like the Swastika, and some Sanskrit words, other traces, to indicate exposure perhaps? Or, perhaps way out of sight, very long ago, there was that huge Vedic worldwide thing, and it's all melted away, perhaps. ???? I'm living in the question, rather than the answer. Rick Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Dear Members, There is also another take on the swastika, as mentioned by James Churchward in his book, " The Lost Continent of Mu" originally published in 1931 and reprinted sometime in the '80's. Churchward came across tablets in India, while performing relief work there during a famine, sometime in the early 1900's. He was assisting a temple priest at the time who helped him recover two sets of ancient tablets written in the language of Naga Maya. The tablets were written by the Naacals, a priestly brotherhood, sent from the 'motherland' to the 'colonies' to teach religion and sacred sciences. The 'motherland' here meaning the continent of Mu or Lemuria, thought to have existed as far back as 50,000 years ago in the Pacific Ocean and sinking beneath the waves in a great cataclysm about 12,000 years ago with its 64 million inhabitants. The swastika symbol was included in these tablets and was referred to as "The Sacred Four". This same symbol also appeared amidst the 2500 stone tablets discovered by William Niven in Mexico, also apparently written by the Naacal brotherhood. >From Churchward: "The Naacal writings tell that the Sacred Four were the Creator's Commands that evolved law and order from chaos throughout the universe. When they had completed this work they were given charge of the physical universe. The Mexican tablets say identically the same thing." Best, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Steve, interesting stuff there. is the book out of print now or do perhaps know who the publisher was? dawn valist, Steven Stuckey <steven@l...> wrote: > > > Dear Members, > > > There is also another take on the swastika, as mentioned by James Churchward in > his book, " The Lost Continent of Mu" originally published in 1931 and reprinted > sometime in the '80's. > Churchward came across tablets in India, while performing relief work there > during a famine, sometime in the early 1900's. He was assisting a temple priest > at the time who helped him recover two sets of ancient tablets written in the > language of Naga Maya. > The tablets were written by the Naacals, a priestly brotherhood, sent from the > 'motherland' to the 'colonies' to teach religion and sacred sciences. The > 'motherland' here meaning the continent of Mu or Lemuria, thought to have > existed as far back as 50,000 years ago in the Pacific Ocean and sinking beneath > the waves in a great cataclysm about 12,000 years ago with its 64 million > inhabitants. > The swastika symbol was included in these tablets and was referred to as "The > Sacred Four". This same symbol also appeared amidst the 2500 stone tablets > discovered by William Niven in Mexico, also apparently written by the Naacal > brotherhood. > > From Churchward: "The Naacal writings tell that the Sacred Four were the > Creator's Commands that evolved law and order from chaos throughout the > universe. When they had completed this work they were given charge of the > physical universe. The Mexican tablets say identically the same thing." > > > Best, > > Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Rick Das, > ancient times in archaeological books, but you do find other similar things, > like Goat's heads on a human body, in other words, you find animals native > to the place as being deity parts. The goat face diety you mentioned is interesting, Let me add something which I know, Ketu usually represented by Ganesha is supposed to have 4 other heads too!, They are, Aja Mukha (Goat Faced) Go Mukha (Cow Faced) Haya Mukha (Hores Faced) And finally Ganesha with Gaja Mukha (Elephant faced). Aja mukha is given by Mars and Gaja Mukha by Jupiter to Ketu. Guess the others Ketu represents sukshma sharira or subtle body, the sthoola sharira or gross body is represented by Mars. Ketu is headless in general. If Ketu does not get a proper head in a Chart it can cause havoc. In Puranic story It's Vishnu who gives the head to Ketu. To explain my understanding let me give an analogy of Car and the driver. This body is just a Bio-Hormonal mass subjected to all laws of physics. This gross body is controlled by two layers of subtle body one formed of emotions and feelings and the other formed by soul. Ganesha's birth story is very important, He was orginally created from mother Parvati's Bathing Ointment. Hence Ganesha is also called Heramba, Heramba mean turmeric which is used in bathing ointment. Here the significance that Boy was born only of materials without Shiva as partner is important. Which is what Ketu thinks originally. That he is all matter. And Refuses to identify Shiva. Shiva fromed from 'Shava'dead body + 'ee' in between of Shaktee. The boy gets into a fight with Shiva, indicates Ketu's havoc. Shiva the Rudra beheads him and Then Vishnu Gives him Elepant Head. Similarly there is another story, Maybe this is related to Aja mukha which you mentioned. That story is of Dakha Prajapati the creator. Who was again beheaded and given Goat Face. Maybe this celtic art you say is another manifestation of the same story. And Swastika could be representation for all forms of head. And it indicates the mooladhara, the base of material form, in different ways. Every Tradition has their own way of expressing the abstract it looks. But the answer could be in all as we are derived from the same. Warm Regards Sanjay P Om Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Dawn wrote: > Steve, > interesting stuff there. > > is the book out of print now or do perhaps know who the publisher was? > Hi Dawn, As far as I can tell, all of his books are currently in print. They were re-printed in the late '80's early '90's. There are 4 books I believe--here is a link to Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Jam\ es%20Churchward/102-1376621-8337 Churchward was serving in the British Army in India in 1868 when he discovered the stone tablets. He states in his book that there were only two priests in India at the time that could read the ancient language. He spent the remainder of his life, over 50 years, translating and researching the tablets. Here is another nice link on this: http://www.brotherhoodoflife.com/MU.html Best, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Well, I would to add some remarks about culture spreading. According to language research Sanskrit belongs to a class of families called "Indo-European". Almost all European languages belong to this family, and also of course, Celtic. The origin of Indo-Europeans is due to recent research located in the Turkey-Caucasian area. This result is also backed up by genetics. Due ti a Russian-Israelin research Indo-European orginated from an even larger class of Language-families called "Nostratic". To this super family belong Indo-European, Darwidian (Tamil belong to that) and teh group of Arabic-Hebrew-North-African languages (Hannibal spoke that). The location of this people is supposed to be in an Area of the today Iraq/Iran. For me this means that all these people orginated from somewhere in the near-middle east. Note also that the grain wheat comes from there (as a furtile bastard of two common grass species there!). And our basis of culture too. After separation of the peoples different culture evolved, and I agree about exchange of knowledge, religion, etc. Some people even say that the Indian Buddhas wear Greek togas. Even the idea of such a far-in-past connection of all of us I consider as very very faszinating! Think of the myths connecting with that, the Tower of Babel and the spreading of the people into the world. In contrast to the Indian the Europeans however, have lost many traditions of the past due to Christianity, and I think that only just traces are left in our European culture. Cheers Christian Am So, 2005-02-06 um 14.53 schrieb Das Goravani: > Well, the total believers for Vedic culture and deities are chiming in and > stating that Vedic culture was everywhere and that Vedic deities are the > most primordial. > > I've come to dislike totalitarian statements from religious faithful (I > know, I used to do it), but I must admit, no religion has so much the right > to act that way as Vedic does, with it's antiquity and breadth. Very hard to > beat! Unbeatable! > > True, being material, all things in this world had to have a beginning, > including the human race- it had to either have been > > 1. dropped off by spaceship > 2. Manifest in one place then spread > 3. Manifest in many places similarly > > We don't seem to know which it is at this time, or if we do, we're not > telling each other clearly enough for all to get it yet. > > The swastika- seems particular enough to not just auto pop up in exactly the > same form all over the world, so one tends to think it spread from > somewhere. It's also easy to draw, looks nice, and looks cool, attractive, > so, if it were shown, it would tend to stick, hence one traveling Brahmin > 3000 years ago in Europe is all it would take for it's introduction and > eventual wide spread there- wouldn't take much. For example, the triskalian, > the 3 pointed star so popular in Celtic art, is popping up on everything now > in America, because it LOOKS COOL and for no other reason. > > There are no findings of elephant heads on anything in Europe. Period. I > haven't seen an elephant head on ANYTHING found in ALL of Europe from > ancient times in archaeological books, but you do find other similar things, > like Goat's heads on a human body, in other words, you find animals native > to the place as being deity parts. > > There certainly could have been one huge kingdom- even Rome controlled > government in all of Europe, and much of Asia in it's day, and Greece had a > huge empire at one point. It's certainly believable that before recorded > history, and before remembered history, India too had it's time in ruling > the world, more or less. > > When I see, as I have, the very very dark people of South India and Africa, > and the very very white people of Denmark, I'm struck as to how these two > could evolve from one, but it is possible, and conceivable. It's also > possible that they came from on the one hand the same original stock, and > then on the other hand got input of DNA from outside sources, alien sources, > or that various demigods started their own "downlines" on Earth. We don¹t > know. > > Of all the creation tales from various cultures I've heard, the Vedic one is > the most complete, well documented and even believeable. Some are very vague > in comparison, and some, like Irish, don't have a creation tale at all. Of > course, the Irish and Celts have to be forgiven this in the now because in > the "then" they were against writing, and what is preserved was done so by > outsiders moreso. The true ancient Celtic beliefs are unknown, and will > remain so, it seems, like an extinct animal, they're gone. > > We do know that at the time Krishna and the Pandavas were purported to have > existed, say 5000 years ago, at that same time Egypt was thriving in it's > own way, which was very different from Vedic. We have archaeological records > of many other cultures existing at that time as well, all with differing > cultures from Vedic- other Gods, other Rites and Rituals, other Dress, other > Alphabet, etc etc. So the world was not "one completely" 5000 years ago, > certainly not. However, it is possible that there was a great civilization > holding sway and power over the others, that could be so. But for one big > Vedic culture with Sanskrit spoken worldwide and Vedic everything spread > worldwide, there is no evidence of that other than the small pieces of > evidence like the Swastika, and some Sanskrit words, other traces, to > indicate exposure perhaps? Or, perhaps way out of sight, very long ago, > there was that huge Vedic worldwide thing, and it's all melted away, > perhaps. > > ???? > > I'm living in the question, rather than the answer. > > Rick > Das > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Dear List, Hare Krishna. As it appears that according to language research Sanskrit belongs to a class of families called "Indo-European". Yes, this statement is further confirmed in the Vedic Literature that Maharaja Prikshit sent his two sons to the region today's known as Rome and eastern Europe to rule that part of the world. As I said in my eamil elsewhere that there is a possibility based on these evidance talked about that the Celts and others were no doubt part of the Yadu Dynesty, perhaps. More so, there are certain words of Sanskrit, I remember, which are well known in todays' world such as VESTRY Christian uses this word which means a room of holy clothes in a Church and in a Sanskrit it is called VESTRA i.e. clothes. The name of Vatican in Rome reminds very similar to the name in Sanskrit called Vatica which means a place of Dharma, religious place of worship. Another, very famous name of the place is Jerusalem also written as Yadusailam or Yerushalayiam in Sanskrit it is known as Yadu-Ishalayam which means the Temple of Lord of YADU - Krishana's clan. However one may perceive all these, one thing is certain that we are part and parcel of this cosmic manifestation wondering in a different colors (White, Off white, yellow, golden, Brownish, all types of colours) of space suit made out of the five gross material elements on this Planet Earth accepting and identifying with it to be our real selves not knowing and realizing who we really are, what is the purpose of our wondering on this planet earth, and yet we are all debating who wore first the space suit made out of the five gross elements of the Universe on this planet earth. The mundane reasearch can not give all these answers. The answer must come from the Creator HIMSELF or through HIS instructions. These instructions are coming down to us in different Languages according to the time and place. We are all in search of looking for these instructions according to our individual mode of material nature. Even though the instructions may very well be in front of us, we can not recoganize or refuse to recoganize. I sincerely hope that one day we all can find the answers and go back where we came from. With best wishes................Amar Puri. >Christian.Grosche >valist >valist >Re: Swastika Usage Today w/ Link >Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:09:30 +0100 > > > >Well, I would to add some remarks about culture spreading. > >According to language research Sanskrit belongs to a class of families >called "Indo-European". Almost all European languages belong to this >family, and also of course, Celtic. >The origin of Indo-Europeans is due to recent research located in the >Turkey-Caucasian area. >This result is also backed up by genetics. >Due ti a Russian-Israelin research Indo-European orginated from an even >larger class of Language-families called "Nostratic". To this super >family belong Indo-European, Darwidian (Tamil belong to that) and teh >group of Arabic-Hebrew-North-African languages (Hannibal spoke that). >The location of this people is supposed to be in an Area of the today >Iraq/Iran. >For me this means that all these people orginated from somewhere in the >near-middle east. Note also that the grain wheat comes from there (as a >furtile bastard of two common grass species there!). And our basis of >culture too. After separation of the peoples different culture evolved, >and I agree about exchange of knowledge, religion, etc. Some people even >say that the Indian Buddhas wear Greek togas. >Even the idea of such a far-in-past connection of all of us I consider >as very very faszinating! >Think of the myths connecting with that, the Tower of Babel and the >spreading of the people into the world. >In contrast to the Indian the Europeans however, have lost many >traditions of the past due to Christianity, and I think that only just >traces are left in our European culture. > >Cheers Christian > >Am So, 2005-02-06 um 14.53 schrieb Das Goravani: > > Well, the total believers for Vedic culture and deities are chiming in >and > > stating that Vedic culture was everywhere and that Vedic deities are the > > most primordial. > > > > I've come to dislike totalitarian statements from religious faithful (I > > know, I used to do it), but I must admit, no religion has so much the >right > > to act that way as Vedic does, with it's antiquity and breadth. Very >hard to > > beat! Unbeatable! > > > > True, being material, all things in this world had to have a beginning, > > including the human race- it had to either have been > > > > 1. dropped off by spaceship > > 2. Manifest in one place then spread > > 3. Manifest in many places similarly > > > > We don't seem to know which it is at this time, or if we do, we're not > > telling each other clearly enough for all to get it yet. > > > > The swastika- seems particular enough to not just auto pop up in exactly >the > > same form all over the world, so one tends to think it spread from > > somewhere. It's also easy to draw, looks nice, and looks cool, >attractive, > > so, if it were shown, it would tend to stick, hence one traveling >Brahmin > > 3000 years ago in Europe is all it would take for it's introduction and > > eventual wide spread there- wouldn't take much. For example, the >triskalian, > > the 3 pointed star so popular in Celtic art, is popping up on everything >now > > in America, because it LOOKS COOL and for no other reason. > > > > There are no findings of elephant heads on anything in Europe. Period. I > > haven't seen an elephant head on ANYTHING found in ALL of Europe from > > ancient times in archaeological books, but you do find other similar >things, > > like Goat's heads on a human body, in other words, you find animals >native > > to the place as being deity parts. > > > > There certainly could have been one huge kingdom- even Rome controlled > > government in all of Europe, and much of Asia in it's day, and Greece >had a > > huge empire at one point. It's certainly believable that before >recorded > > history, and before remembered history, India too had it's time in >ruling > > the world, more or less. > > > > When I see, as I have, the very very dark people of South India and >Africa, > > and the very very white people of Denmark, I'm struck as to how these >two > > could evolve from one, but it is possible, and conceivable. It's also > > possible that they came from on the one hand the same original stock, >and > > then on the other hand got input of DNA from outside sources, alien >sources, > > or that various demigods started their own "downlines" on Earth. We >don¹t > > know. > > > > Of all the creation tales from various cultures I've heard, the Vedic >one is > > the most complete, well documented and even believeable. Some are very >vague > > in comparison, and some, like Irish, don't have a creation tale at all. >Of > > course, the Irish and Celts have to be forgiven this in the now because >in > > the "then" they were against writing, and what is preserved was done so >by > > outsiders moreso. The true ancient Celtic beliefs are unknown, and will > > remain so, it seems, like an extinct animal, they're gone. > > > > We do know that at the time Krishna and the Pandavas were purported to >have > > existed, say 5000 years ago, at that same time Egypt was thriving in >it's > > own way, which was very different from Vedic. We have archaeological >records > > of many other cultures existing at that time as well, all with differing > > cultures from Vedic- other Gods, other Rites and Rituals, other Dress, >other > > Alphabet, etc etc. So the world was not "one completely" 5000 years ago, > > certainly not. However, it is possible that there was a great >civilization > > holding sway and power over the others, that could be so. But for one >big > > Vedic culture with Sanskrit spoken worldwide and Vedic everything spread > > worldwide, there is no evidence of that other than the small pieces of > > evidence like the Swastika, and some Sanskrit words, other traces, to > > indicate exposure perhaps? Or, perhaps way out of sight, very long ago, > > there was that huge Vedic worldwide thing, and it's all melted away, > > perhaps. > > > > ???? > > > > I'm living in the question, rather than the answer. > > > > Rick > > Das > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 valist, "fas fas" <foreignersassistance@h...> wrote: > Dear List, > > Hare Krishna. > > As it appears that according to language research Sanskrit belongs to a > class of families > called "Indo-European". Yes, this statement is further confirmed in the > Vedic Literature that Maharaja Prikshit sent his two sons to the region > today's known as Rome and eastern Europe to rule that part of the world. As > I said in my eamil elsewhere that there is a possibility based on these > evidance talked about that the Celts and others were no doubt part of the > Yadu Dynesty, perhaps. More so, there are certain words of Sanskrit, I > remember, which are well known in todays' world such as VESTRY Christian > uses this word which means a room of holy clothes in a Church and in a > Sanskrit it is called VESTRA i.e. clothes. The name of Vatican in Rome > reminds very similar to the name in Sanskrit called Vatica which means a > place of Dharma, religious place of worship. Another, very famous name of > the place is Jerusalem also written as Yadusailam or Yerushalayiam in > Sanskrit it is known as Yadu-Ishalayam which means the Temple of Lord of > YADU - Krishana's clan. THIS RELATES TO MY REFERENCE TO CHRIST CALLING KRISHNA FATHER IS AN EARLIER POST. CHRIST'S CALLED HIMSELF (PHONETICALLY) YESTHU KRISHTOS (SON OF KRISHNA). SO YOUR INFORMATION CORRELATES WITH THAT. DAWN. > > However one may perceive all these, one thing is certain that we are part > and parcel of this cosmic manifestation wondering in a different colors > (White, Off white, yellow, golden, Brownish, all types of colours) of space > suit made out of the five gross material elements on this Planet Earth > accepting and identifying with it to be our real selves not knowing and > realizing who we really are, what is the purpose of our wondering on this > planet earth, and yet we are all debating who wore first the space suit made > out of the five gross elements of the Universe on this planet earth. > > The mundane reasearch can not give all these answers. The answer must come > from the Creator HIMSELF or through HIS instructions. These instructions > are coming down to us in different Languages according to the time and > place. We are all in search of looking for these instructions according to > our individual mode of material nature. Even though the instructions may > very well be in front of us, we can not recoganize or refuse to recoganize. > > I sincerely hope that one day we all can find the answers and go back where > we came from. > > With best wishes................Amar Puri. > > >Christian.Grosche@t... > >valist > >valist > >Re: Swastika Usage Today w/ Link > >Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:09:30 +0100 > > > > > > > >Well, I would to add some remarks about culture spreading. > > > >According to language research Sanskrit belongs to a class of families > >called "Indo-European". Almost all European languages belong to this > >family, and also of course, Celtic. > >The origin of Indo-Europeans is due to recent research located in the > >Turkey-Caucasian area. > >This result is also backed up by genetics. > >Due ti a Russian-Israelin research Indo-European orginated from an even > >larger class of Language-families called "Nostratic". To this super > >family belong Indo-European, Darwidian (Tamil belong to that) and teh > >group of Arabic-Hebrew-North-African languages (Hannibal spoke that). > >The location of this people is supposed to be in an Area of the today > >Iraq/Iran. > >For me this means that all these people orginated from somewhere in the > >near-middle east. Note also that the grain wheat comes from there (as a > >furtile bastard of two common grass species there!). And our basis of > >culture too. After separation of the peoples different culture evolved, > >and I agree about exchange of knowledge, religion, etc. Some people even > >say that the Indian Buddhas wear Greek togas. > >Even the idea of such a far-in-past connection of all of us I consider > >as very very faszinating! > >Think of the myths connecting with that, the Tower of Babel and the > >spreading of the people into the world. > >In contrast to the Indian the Europeans however, have lost many > >traditions of the past due to Christianity, and I think that only just > >traces are left in our European culture. > > > >Cheers Christian > > > >Am So, 2005-02-06 um 14.53 schrieb Das Goravani: > > > Well, the total believers for Vedic culture and deities are chiming in > >and > > > stating that Vedic culture was everywhere and that Vedic deities are the > > > most primordial. > > > > > > I've come to dislike totalitarian statements from religious faithful (I > > > know, I used to do it), but I must admit, no religion has so much the > >right > > > to act that way as Vedic does, with it's antiquity and breadth. Very > >hard to > > > beat! Unbeatable! > > > > > > True, being material, all things in this world had to have a beginning, > > > including the human race- it had to either have been > > > > > > 1. dropped off by spaceship > > > 2. Manifest in one place then spread > > > 3. Manifest in many places similarly > > > > > > We don't seem to know which it is at this time, or if we do, we're not > > > telling each other clearly enough for all to get it yet. > > > > > > The swastika- seems particular enough to not just auto pop up in exactly > >the > > > same form all over the world, so one tends to think it spread from > > > somewhere. It's also easy to draw, looks nice, and looks cool, > >attractive, > > > so, if it were shown, it would tend to stick, hence one traveling > >Brahmin > > > 3000 years ago in Europe is all it would take for it's introduction and > > > eventual wide spread there- wouldn't take much. For example, the > >triskalian, > > > the 3 pointed star so popular in Celtic art, is popping up on everything > >now > > > in America, because it LOOKS COOL and for no other reason. > > > > > > There are no findings of elephant heads on anything in Europe. Period. I > > > haven't seen an elephant head on ANYTHING found in ALL of Europe from > > > ancient times in archaeological books, but you do find other similar > >things, > > > like Goat's heads on a human body, in other words, you find animals > >native > > > to the place as being deity parts. > > > > > > There certainly could have been one huge kingdom- even Rome controlled > > > government in all of Europe, and much of Asia in it's day, and Greece > >had a > > > huge empire at one point. It's certainly believable that before > >recorded > > > history, and before remembered history, India too had it's time in > >ruling > > > the world, more or less. > > > > > > When I see, as I have, the very very dark people of South India and > >Africa, > > > and the very very white people of Denmark, I'm struck as to how these > >two > > > could evolve from one, but it is possible, and conceivable. It's also > > > possible that they came from on the one hand the same original stock, > >and > > > then on the other hand got input of DNA from outside sources, alien > >sources, > > > or that various demigods started their own "downlines" on Earth. We > >don¹t > > > know. > > > > > > Of all the creation tales from various cultures I've heard, the Vedic > >one is > > > the most complete, well documented and even believeable. Some are very > >vague > > > in comparison, and some, like Irish, don't have a creation tale at all. > >Of > > > course, the Irish and Celts have to be forgiven this in the now because > >in > > > the "then" they were against writing, and what is preserved was done so > >by > > > outsiders moreso. The true ancient Celtic beliefs are unknown, and will > > > remain so, it seems, like an extinct animal, they're gone. > > > > > > We do know that at the time Krishna and the Pandavas were purported to > >have > > > existed, say 5000 years ago, at that same time Egypt was thriving in > >it's > > > own way, which was very different from Vedic. We have archaeological > >records > > > of many other cultures existing at that time as well, all with differing > > > cultures from Vedic- other Gods, other Rites and Rituals, other Dress, > >other > > > Alphabet, etc etc. So the world was not "one completely" 5000 years ago, > > > certainly not. However, it is possible that there was a great > >civilization > > > holding sway and power over the others, that could be so. But for one > >big > > > Vedic culture with Sanskrit spoken worldwide and Vedic everything spread > > > worldwide, there is no evidence of that other than the small pieces of > > > evidence like the Swastika, and some Sanskrit words, other traces, to > > > indicate exposure perhaps? Or, perhaps way out of sight, very long ago, > > > there was that huge Vedic worldwide thing, and it's all melted away, > > > perhaps. > > > > > > ???? > > > > > > I'm living in the question, rather than the answer. > > > > > > Rick > > > Das > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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