Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 For those who don't know these things: In India, even in common films about the old days, the people will refer to each other as Aryans. This is definitely a concept in India, that they are/were Aryans. Now Hitler comes along and uses the same word, and the Swastika, both of which are found in heavy use in India. Did you know that in India today there is a widespread laundry detergent on the shelves of grocery stores called "Swasti" and it has a big red swastika on the box! And in say films about Lord Ram, they will show him say drawing a red swastika on the wall of his room while in exile in the forest, for example. A line in movie might say like "Aryan Shabnam", addressing Shabnam as an Aryan. In this way, to them, Aryan means "one who follows the religious codes, is civilized" and it literally means "pure" I believe. So then there's this theory of the "Aryan invasion" which is heavily discounted by authorities on India's true history, but it's VERY contentious, with intense beliefs on both sides. Many books have been written about this in both directions. When I was a Hare Krishna devotee, I had a Guru named Sridhar Maharaja. He is gone now. He was a young man, a Sannyasin, during WWII. He was close to his Guru "Bhaktisidhanta Saraswati" who lived mainly near Navadwip, a part of Bengal, East India. He told us that one day 3 Nazi officers came to their temple to purchase books, and talk to the leader. And so they did. They had a meeting with the head Guru, and talked about all manner of things related to Nazi's of Germany and Hinduism. Hitler had a part of his machine which was interested in digging out old truths about the movements of peoples, and history and stuff, for whatever reason. One set of beliefs around the invasions of India that I somewhat am looking at as plausible is that India used to be one way, then foreignors from the North (of course) came and brought more masculine rule based religion and thinking, and this gave rise to the dominance of the male Gods. The world over there seems to have been a time when the old ways gave way to the new masculine patriarchal movement, and that this rule based really "religious" way of seeing things took over. This clearly happened in the Celtic world with the onslaught of Christianity after Rome. Prior to that onslaught, the White's of Europe believed VERY differently from Christianity/Judaism. Now some of us have an interest in those old pagan things... To see what that's about. India's South- the people are very dark. In the North, Greece had come once, and perhaps others (of course), and so we see a lighter color of people. So too did come with those visitors their various cultures, Gods, Maths, Logics, Reasonings, ways, everything, and their blood, and the inclinations of that blood, or the genetic memory, the empire of our ancestral bloodline cursing in our veins. Even the so called North Indian chart style is of Arabic origins. See? Pleasing Arabs, Greeks, etc., getting influenced by them culturally, makes the North different from the South. It's of interest to me that the capital of Ancient India, Hastinapur, which is now Delhi, is in North India, indicating the power was situated where trade and invasion from-to Northern routes were more common, more possible, less cumbersome, more likely, more definitely a fact of history. The way ancient tribes and cultures REALLY believed, and the way they EVENTUALLY believed, are very different. In the Bhagavatam that Amar Puri regularly quotes as some type of ultimate puritanical source and authority, you can find stories which say things like "...and then the King and Queen, feeling great lust, had sex for 1,000 years and produced 1,000 sons..." Or..."...the two sages saw the woman, and both wanted to make love to her, but she chose first this one, then the semen fell out of her from him, so it was put in a pot, then she made love to the second sage, and his semen was taken out of her and mixed in the pot as well..." Or..."...then the warrior shot the dear for fun or sport....or...then he shot the dear to bring it home to his wife as a gift..."...or..."then the supreme lord balaram got intoxicated on honey wine (Called MEAD in Europe, this is the first intoxicating drink known to be used in Europe- mead is a Celtic favorite, and was had all over Ancient Europe prior to Rome introducing the grape and wine just prior to BC. In other words, the book is a tad confusing. There seems to be approval of hunting and meat eating, yet Hindus are against these things. There seems to be approval of lust and sex, yet Hindus are against these things, at least the strictest one's who ironically are the strongest proponents of the Bhagavatam. This is because it contains the all important story of Krishnas life, and does end up being a huge endorsement for monotheism towards Vishnu and Krishna. So it is a Vaisnava scripture, but it shows, as a Purana (a history) that India apparently used to have a much wider, more "pagan" self. This is again the same as Europe. So there is this "later cleansing" of the old ways, and a bringing in of a new testament of puritanism. Could it be the North and West bringing it into the North India? The meer fact that Krishna is seen as Blue scares me because the Northern Ancient peoples of England and Ireland painting themselves completely blue with a substance called "Woad". Woad is a liquid blue paint basically, created from crushing a certain type of mustard plant flower with pig fat. The ancient peoples rubbed this on their bodies. It was antiseptic and I imagine also warming. Good in the chilly North. You can literally "wear woad" and much more easily withstand nature, because it was a strong coating on your skin somehow, kept you alive in the elements more easily. So the Picts, and whichever other people joined them in those ancient times on the Isles of Britain, looked blue a lot of the time, when actually they are white people with dark hair. Pretty weird. Maybe I should "woad up" with the ancient clothes I've made, and put myself's picture up on the web for you all to see. With my long dark hair, my kilt, which Krishna often wore according to Scripture and is often dressed in temples that way, and woad, I look like well, Krishna. There was a lot of similarity tween some ancient cultures. So Maybe the Vishnu culture came into India. After all, that name does sound a lot like some of the God names from the just Northern Ancient cultures. Whereas in the History part of the Bhagavatam, they talk about demigods a lot, and Vishnu, or, the Triumverate of Brahma, Vishna, Shiva. So it's just different, the history unfolding seems to show in the scriptures themselves. Anyway, this is one line of thought on India that some are discussing. I am not proposing conclusions, only discussion. I gave up "believing" and prefer more to be in the mystery, in the discussion, in the perceiving, attempting, trying, finding, feeling, surviving. There's much more chance of illumination when there is a lack of conviction but a supply of interest. Whew, that was quite a good last sentence. Should I speak in India or will I get stoned to death. I've been invited. Should I go? I'm worried my health isn't up to it at this time anyway, but maybe I should "health up" to make the journey. Haven't been since '84 (my fourth and last). By the way, Rick and Das are the same person. Richard Verst-MacKay became Das Goravani in his twenties to suit his devotions to Hare Krishna Bengali style Vaisnavism. Now he isn't into being identified outside of birth identity, which is expressed , or Reicheart MacQuoid or Richard McCoy, all of these are the same. Since my first name is invariably German, I honore my father with it. Therefore I turn to my Irish mother for her mothers name, which is the Aoidh (fire) family name, and Mac means male, Nic for female. Some of you write to me as if Das and Rick are separate, they are me, one. This one has been fun. Das Goravani, Pres. Service http://www.dancingmooninc.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Friends, Here is some of my understandings on this, The word Arya means excellent or one who rules. It's origin can be related to the word Surya also. One of the 12 names of Surya is Aryaman, Ruler of Uttarphalguni in Leo sign. MonierWillams gives the meaning as, Aryaman = Name of an Aditya (who is commonly invoked together with Varun2a and Mitra , also with Bhaga , Br2ihaspati , and others ; he is supposed to be the chief of the Manes Bhag. &c. , the milky way is called his path [{aryamNaHpanthAH} TBr.] ; he presides over the Nakshatra Uttaraphalguni1 VarBr2S. ; his name is used to form different male names Pa1n2. 5-3 , 84) RV. &c. Aarya in Vriddi form of Sanskrit is Aarya. Vriddhi form is growth form indicating the origin of the person. Usually by infixing 'aa' 'ai' 'au' to the word. (like Vishnu devotee is called Vaishnava) The Tamil word (A language in South India/Sri Lanka/Malaysia etc) 'aiya' is also anther form of Arya. Aiya is used to repectably address someone. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hari Om Tat Sat valist, Das Goravani <das@g...> wrote: > > For those who don't know these things: > > In India, even in common films about the old days, the people will refer to > each other as Aryans. This is definitely a concept in India, that they > are/were Aryans. > > Now Hitler comes along and uses the same word, and the Swastika, both of > which are found in heavy use in India. Did you know that in India today > there is a widespread laundry detergent on the shelves of grocery stores > called "Swasti" and it has a big red swastika on the box! And in say films > about Lord Ram, they will show him say drawing a red swastika on the wall of > his room while in exile in the forest, for example. A line in movie might > say like "Aryan Shabnam", addressing Shabnam as an Aryan. In this way, to > them, Aryan means "one who follows the religious codes, is civilized" and it > literally means "pure" I believe. > > So then there's this theory of the "Aryan invasion" which is heavily > discounted by authorities on India's true history, but it's VERY > contentious, with intense beliefs on both sides. Many books have been > written about this in both directions. > > When I was a Hare Krishna devotee, I had a Guru named Sridhar Maharaja. He > is gone now. He was a young man, a Sannyasin, during WWII. He was close to > his Guru "Bhaktisidhanta Saraswati" who lived mainly near Navadwip, a part > of Bengal, East India. He told us that one day 3 Nazi officers came to their > temple to purchase books, and talk to the leader. And so they did. They had > a meeting with the head Guru, and talked about all manner of things related > to Nazi's of Germany and Hinduism. Hitler had a part of his machine which > was interested in digging out old truths about the movements of peoples, and > history and stuff, for whatever reason. > > One set of beliefs around the invasions of India that I somewhat am looking > at as plausible is that India used to be one way, then foreignors from the > North (of course) came and brought more masculine rule based religion and > thinking, and this gave rise to the dominance of the male Gods. The world > over there seems to have been a time when the old ways gave way to the new > masculine patriarchal movement, and that this rule based really "religious" > way of seeing things took over. This clearly happened in the Celtic world > with the onslaught of Christianity after Rome. Prior to that onslaught, the > White's of Europe believed VERY differently from Christianity/Judaism. Now > some of us have an interest in those old pagan things... To see what that's > about. > > India's South- the people are very dark. In the North, Greece had come once, > and perhaps others (of course), and so we see a lighter color of people. > > So too did come with those visitors their various cultures, Gods, Maths, > Logics, Reasonings, ways, everything, and their blood, and the inclinations > of that blood, or the genetic memory, the empire of our ancestral bloodline > cursing in our veins. > > Even the so called North Indian chart style is of Arabic origins. See? > Pleasing Arabs, Greeks, etc., getting influenced by them culturally, makes > the North different from the South. > > It's of interest to me that the capital of Ancient India, Hastinapur, which > is now Delhi, is in North India, indicating the power was situated where > trade and invasion from-to Northern routes were more common, more possible, > less cumbersome, more likely, more definitely a fact of history. > > The way ancient tribes and cultures REALLY believed, and the way they > EVENTUALLY believed, are very different. > > In the Bhagavatam that Amar Puri regularly quotes as some type of ultimate > puritanical source and authority, you can find stories which say things like > "...and then the King and Queen, feeling great lust, had sex for 1,000 years > and produced 1,000 sons..." > > Or..."...the two sages saw the woman, and both wanted to make love to her, > but she chose first this one, then the semen fell out of her from him, so it > was put in a pot, then she made love to the second sage, and his semen was > taken out of her and mixed in the pot as well..." > > Or..."...then the warrior shot the dear for fun or sport....or...then he > shot the dear to bring it home to his wife as a gift..."...or..."then the > supreme lord balaram got intoxicated on honey wine (Called MEAD in Europe, > this is the first intoxicating drink known to be used in Europe- mead is a > Celtic favorite, and was had all over Ancient Europe prior to Rome > introducing the grape and wine just prior to BC. > > In other words, the book is a tad confusing. There seems to be approval of > hunting and meat eating, yet Hindus are against these things. There seems to > be approval of lust and sex, yet Hindus are against these things, at least > the strictest one's who ironically are the strongest proponents of the > Bhagavatam. This is because it contains the all important story of Krishnas > life, and does end up being a huge endorsement for monotheism towards Vishnu > and Krishna. > > So it is a Vaisnava scripture, but it shows, as a Purana (a history) that > India apparently used to have a much wider, more "pagan" self. This is again > the same as Europe. So there is this "later cleansing" of the old ways, and > a bringing in of a new testament of puritanism. Could it be the North and > West bringing it into the North India? The meer fact that Krishna is seen as > Blue scares me because the Northern Ancient peoples of England and Ireland > painting themselves completely blue with a substance called "Woad". > > Woad is a liquid blue paint basically, created from crushing a certain type > of mustard plant flower with pig fat. The ancient peoples rubbed this on > their bodies. It was antiseptic and I imagine also warming. Good in the > chilly North. You can literally "wear woad" and much more easily withstand > nature, because it was a strong coating on your skin somehow, kept you alive > in the elements more easily. So the Picts, and whichever other people joined > them in those ancient times on the Isles of Britain, looked blue a lot of > the time, when actually they are white people with dark hair. > > Pretty weird. Maybe I should "woad up" with the ancient clothes I've made, > and put myself's picture up on the web for you all to see. With my long dark > hair, my kilt, which Krishna often wore according to Scripture and is often > dressed in temples that way, and woad, I look like well, Krishna. There was > a lot of similarity tween some ancient cultures. > > So Maybe the Vishnu culture came into India. After all, that name does sound > a lot like some of the God names from the just Northern Ancient cultures. > > Whereas in the History part of the Bhagavatam, they talk about demigods a > lot, and Vishnu, or, the Triumverate of Brahma, Vishna, Shiva. > > So it's just different, the history unfolding seems to show in the > scriptures themselves. Anyway, this is one line of thought on India that > some are discussing. > > I am not proposing conclusions, only discussion. I gave up "believing" and > prefer more to be in the mystery, in the discussion, in the perceiving, > attempting, trying, finding, feeling, surviving. There's much more chance > of illumination when there is a lack of conviction but a supply of interest. > > Whew, that was quite a good last sentence. > > Should I speak in India or will I get stoned to death. I've been invited. > Should I go? I'm worried my health isn't up to it at this time anyway, but > maybe I should "health up" to make the journey. Haven't been since '84 (my > fourth and last). > > By the way, Rick and Das are the same person. Richard Verst-MacKay became > Das Goravani in his twenties to suit his devotions to Hare Krishna Bengali > style Vaisnavism. Now he isn't into being identified outside of birth > identity, which is expressed , or Reicheart MacQuoid or Richard > McCoy, all of these are the same. Since my first name is invariably German, > I honore my father with it. Therefore I turn to my Irish mother for her > mothers name, which is the Aoidh (fire) family name, and Mac means male, Nic > for female. > > Some of you write to me as if Das and Rick are separate, they are me, one. > > This one has been fun. > > > > Das Goravani, Pres. > > > > > Service@D... > > > > > > http://www.dancingmooninc.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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