AW: AW: Bhagwat Thumping/Finding the Truth

March 11, 2005

Shabnamji,

Nothing funny about your learning coming from your life's experiences and

from study. However I am deeply amused by the ease by which people get

offended on the list. Also how careful they are in trying to ensure that no

one else gets offended. Also I'm not referring to any one person in

particular.

Cheers,

Tejpal

>"Bioacoustics" <bioacoustics

>valist

><valist>

>AW: AW: Bhagwat Thumping/Finding the Truth

>Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:31:49 +0100

>

>Dear Amarji,

>

>Please forgive me. Seems I have offended you somehow, although I was

>actually responding to Rick`s perception of your mails rather than

>commenting on your mails directly.

>

>I infact, find your mails most informative & am suitably impressed at your

>ability to quote the scriptures, seeing as I dont know them at all but

>would

>really like to.

>

>Tejpalji might find it even funnier when I admit that most of my

>understanding comes from life`s experiences & mythological DVDs like

>Krishna, Mahabharat, Ramayan, Vishnu Puran etc. I have over a hundred of

>these & love to watch them despite their rough quality.

>And now I have the good fortune to learn from so many learned people on

>this

>list.

>

>Looking forward to your mails.

>

>Hari Om.

>

>Shabnam

>

>-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----

>Von: fas fas [foreignersassistance]

>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Marz 2005 18:51

>An: valist

>Betreff: RE: AW: Bhagwat Thumping/Finding the Truth

>

>Hello dear learned members,

>

>Hare Krishna.

>

>We perceive things (knowledge) according to our status of mental plateform

>on a different level followed by the quality of the mode of material nature

>at particular time, place and circumstances.

>

>" Just like the Sun is there always. It may come before your vision or not

>- the sun is there and open to everyone. But if you are fortunate you come

>before the Sun."

>

>Is the above statement is any dogmatic or belong to a particular cult ? To

>believe in Sun's existence is a dogmatic or cult. Is Sun's existence not a

>universal ? So, where is the difficulty to accept the truth of the

>knowledge of the Bhagavat Gita where Lord Shri Krishna says, I am the SUN.

>?

>

>The Shakti (Engery of all kind) and The Shaktiman can not exist one without

>the other. Where there is Purusha (Shaktiman) there is a Shakti (Engergy).

>The Shakti can not exist alone. Therefore, Shakti is female and Shaktiman

>is male. This is why GOD, the creator is known in the scripture

>Brahma-samhita, "GOVINDAM ADI- PURUSHAM TAM AHAM BHAJAMI..." This hymn

>sung

>by Lord Brahma to glorify the creator Govinda - Krishna.

>

>Further Lord Shiva also glorify Govinda, Krishna ;

>

>In the Sri Sanatkumara-samhita, from the ancient Skanda Purana, we find a

>conversation between the great sage Sri Narada and Lord Sadashiva, the

>master of the demigods. Starting at text number 26 to text 30, Narada Muni

>asks Lord Sadashiva, "O master please tell what method the people of

>Kali-yuga may adopt to easily attain the transcendental abode of Lord Hari

>[Krishna]. O Lord, what mantra will carry the people from this world of

>birth and death? So everyone may benefit, please tell it to me. O Lord, of

>all mantras what mantra needs no purashcharana, no nyasa, no yoga, no

>samskara, and no other thing? A single utterance of the Lord's holy name

>gives the highest result. O master of the demigods, if I am competent to

>hear it, please kindly tell me the Lord's holy name."

>In texts 31-35 , Lord Sadashiva gives his answer: Lord Sadashiva said: "O

>fortunate one, your question is excellent. O you who wish for the welfare

>of

>all, I will tell you the secret chintamani [wish-fulfilling] jewel of all

>mantras. I will tell you the secret of secrets, the most confidential of

>all

>confidential things. I will tell you what I have not told either the

>goddess

>or your elder brothers. I will tell you two peerless Krishna mantras that

>are the crest-jewels of all mantras.

>

>One mantra is:

>"'Gopijana-vallabha-charanau sharanam prapadye.' (I take shelter of the

>feet

>of He who is the gopi's beloved) This mantra has three compound words, five

>individual words and sixteen syllables.

>

>"The second mantra is: 'Namo gopijana-vallabhabhyam.' (Obeisances to the

>divine couple, who are dear to the gopis) This mantra has two words and ten

>syllables.

>

>In texts 36-41, Lord Sadashiva continues: "One who either with faith or

>without faith once chants this five-word mantra resides among Lord

>Krishna's

>gopi-beloveds. Of this there is no doubt. In chanting these mantras there

>is

>no need of purshcharana, nyasa, ari-shuddhi, mitra-shuddhi, or other kinds

>of purification. In chanting these mantras there is no restriction of time

>or place. All, from the lowest outcaste to the greatest sage, are eligible

>to chant this mantra. Women, shudras, and all others are eligible. The

>paralyzed, mute, blind, and lame are eligible. The Andhras, Hunas, Kiratas,

>Pulindas, Pukkashas, Abhiras, Yavanas, Kankas, Khashas, and all others born

>from sinful wombs are also eligible. They who are overcome with pride and

>ego, who are intent on committing sins, who are killers of cows and

>brahmanas, and who are the greatest of sinners, are also eligible. They who

>have neither knowledge nor renunciation, they who have never studied the

>shruti-shastra and other scriptures, and all others, whoever they may be,

>are also eligible to chant these mantras."

>

>Then in texts 42-48 Lord Sadashiva explains who is not eligible and who

>should not be told these sacred mantras or the purpose of them:

>

>"Anyone who has devotion to Lord Krishna, the master of all masters, is

>eligible to chant these mantras, but they who have no devotion, even they

>may be the greatest of sages, are not eligible. They who have performed

>many

>yajnas, given charity, visited all holy places, been devoted to speaking

>the

>truth, accepted the renounced order, traveled to the farther shore of the

>Vedas and Vedangas, devotedly served the brahmanas, taken birth in good

>families, and performed austerities and vows, but are not devoted to Lord

>Krishna, are not eligible to chant these mantras. Therefore these mantras

>should not be spoken to one who is not devoted to Lord Hari, nor to one who

>is ungrateful, proud, or faithless, nor to an atheist or a blasphemer. One

>should not speak these mantras to one who does not wish to hear them, nor

>to

>one who has not stayed for one year in the speaker's ashrama. One should

>carefully give these mantras to one who is free from hypocrisy, greed,

>lust,

>anger, and other vices, and who is sincerely devoted to Lord Krishna. The

>sage of this mantra is Lord Sadashiva. The meter is Gayatri. The Deity is

>Lord Krishna, the beloved of the gopis. The purpose is to attain service to

>dear Lord Hari."

>

>In text 53 Lord Sadashiva says: "By once chanting this mantra one attains

>success. Of this there is no doubt. Still, for the purpose of chanting japa

>one should chant this mantra ten times daily."

>In texts 54-77 of the Sri Sanatkumara-samhita, Lord Sadashiva describes the

>most nectarean meditation of the mantras, after which he continues with

>many

>additional topics in regard to the pastimes of Radha and Krishna and the

>importance of the land of Vrindavana:

>

>"O best of brahmanas, now I will tell you the meditation of this mantra. I

>meditate on two-armed Lord Krishna, who is dark like a monsoon cloud,

>dressed in yellow garments, garlanded with forest flowers... crowned with a

>peacock feather, and garlanded with lotus whorls, whose face is splendid

>like ten million moons, whose eyes move restlessly... whose forehead is

>marked with tilaka of sandal paste and musk... who is splendid with

>earrings

>like two rising suns, whose perspiration-anointed cheeks are like two

>glistening mirrors... who with raised eyebrows playfully glances at His

>beloved's face, the tip of whose graceful raised nose is decorated with a

>glistening pearl... whose bimba-fruit lips are splendid in the moonlight of

>His teeth, whose hands are splendid with bracelets, armlets, and jewel

>rings... who holds a flute in His left lotus hand, whose waist is splendid

>with a graceful belt, whose feet are splendid with graceful anklets...

>whose

>eyes are restless with the nectar of amorous pastimes, who jokes with His

>beloved, making Her laugh again and again... and who stays with Her on a

>jewel throne under a kalpa-vriksha tree in Vrindavana forest. In this way

>one should meditate on Lord Krishna and His beloved."

>

>Adjustment of all sorts in the material world do not solve all material

>problems because the Jiva atma (Soul) is not material. It is spiritual.

>Due to the attachment and wrongly identifying the Jiva to be the body and

>bodly senses, we enjoy or suffer according to our action and its reaction

>continuiously binding the Jiva into the laws of karma and incarnation life

>after life after life.

>

>This is what we study in the Jyotish the material suffering and finding the

>solution. Isn't it ? So, why not at least try to get out of this cycle of

>birth and death as per Bhagavat Gita, and share this knowledge freely to

>people from all walks of life.

>

>Only with the knowledge of HOW TO DEVELOP LOVE OF GOD WITH PROPER SPIRITUAL

>ACTIVITIES can we rise progressively above the Laws of Karma.

>

>THE ASTROLOGY IS THE VITAL TOOL OF KNOWING OUR DESTINY AND ITS PURPOSE TO

>DEVELOP SUCH LOVE OF GOD IF GUIDED BY THE COMPETENT ASTROLOGER.

>

>So, we are all Astrologers nearly 1000 one thousand members on this forum

>and let us continue help people.

>

>Hari BOL. OM TAT SAT.

>

>With my best wishes and regards.........AMAR PURI.

>

> >"Tej Pal Chadha" <tejpalchadha

> >valist

> >RE: AW: Bhagwat Thumping

> >Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:20:41 +0000

> >

> >Kronos might well be Shani (well he is equated with the Roman god Saturn

> >anyways) or might not. Thinking about this whole understanding the Gods

> >thing... makes me laugh sometimes. Kinda akin to an ant trying to figure

> >out

> >human beings, but never being able to.

> >

> > >"Bioacoustics" <bioacoustics

> > >valist

> > ><valist>

> > >AW: Bhagwat Thumping

> > >Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:19:02 +0100

> > >

> > >Dear Rick,

> > >

> > >I dislike dogma & cults but I wont throw the baby out with the bath

> >water,

> > >in a manner of speaking.

> > >

> > >We can take what we want or need & let the rest be.

> > >

> > >As for Christ/krishna, Ultimately they are both representations of

> > >Universal Consciousness.... & us, being made of material ( Devi

>Shakti/

> > >Mother mary ) stuff, we are irrevocably tied to the laws of physics one

> >of

> > >which is the Law of cause & effect or Karma if you will.

> > >Simplistically put, if I stick my finger in the fire, it will burn.....

> >or

> > >looking at it another way, If I keep drawing from the bank without

> >putting

> > >any money in, sooner or later I will have to face my consequential

>debit

> > >and

> > >if I die before they can put me in the debtors prison, then my children

> > >would be held responsible until they clear my debts.

> > >On a brighter note, they would also inherit any investments I might

>leave

> > >behind.

> > >

> > >Its probably futile, hating / blaming mother ( by birth or adoption or

> > >representation )for reminding one.

> > >

> > >As I see it, resistance, lack of acceptance, value judgements etc:

>these

> > >are

> > >some of the stuff pain is made of. On my best days, I experience taking

> > >full

> > >personal responsibility, as pure freedom.

> > >

> > >I`m lovingly sharing some of my conclusions from personal experiences.

> >Hope

> > >they do not offend.

> > >

> > >In one of your posts you have talked about the difficulties of matching

> > >mythological figures from different cultures. I was wondering if it

>would

> > >make this easier if we matched Archetypes rather than names & myths as

> > >these

> > >can be adjusted to accomodate socio-geographic circumstances. For

> >example,

> > >Demeter / Parvati or Kronos / Shani....just contemplating......

> > >

> > >Hari Om.

> > >

> > >Shabnam

> > >

> > >-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----

> > >Von: Das Goravani []

> > >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. Marz 2005 22:00

> > >An: valist

> > >Betreff: Re: Bhagwat Thumping

> > >

> > > > Is it not true that you are one of the initiated devotee of the Lord

> > >Shri

> > > > Krishna? Therefore,you are in the parampara regardless how you

>feel,

> > >think,

> > > >act and believe or disbelive, accept or reject out of your free

>WILL.

> > >

> > >You sound just like my mother, who used to tell me that since I'm

> >baptized

> > >I

> > >am Catholic, and Jesus owns me, and I'll be back, no matter what.

>"YOU'RE

> >A

> > >CATHOLIC" she used to yell, when I talked about Krishna. Now you're

> >telling

> > >me "You're a Vaisnava, no matter what!"

> > >

> > >So, for those who are watching this, this is about a Vaisnava or Hindu

> > >Orthodox Disciplic Succession principle that says that you are

>eternally

> > >owned by your Guru and the Succession (Parampara) he is in. So, I am

>now

> > >"permanently a Vaisnava under Sridhar Maharaj, even in the afterlife".

> > >

> > >This is very similar to some other religions. This is a very

>mechanistic,

> > >personalistic, view, similar to Catholics, Mormons, and many others.

> > >

> > >It's almost to the point of burying people with their cars and servants

> >for

> > >the trip, like ancient China, Egypt, and so on. These Vaisnavas

>venerate

> > >little chips of cloth from past Gurus, like Catholics venerate even the

> > >body

> > >parts of past Saints.

> > >

> > >Interesting Stuff. Us humans trying to figure out where we are, what

>we

> > >are, and so on, and get saved, saved from future suffering, saved from

> >not

> > >understanding, saved from being lower than we think is acceptable, and

>so

> > >on.

> > >

> > >Das Goravani, Pres.

> > >

> > >Service

> > >

> > >http://www.dancingmooninc.com

> > >

> > > Links

> > >

> > > Links

> > >

> >

> > Links

> >

Links

>

Links

>

March 11, 2005

Hi,

This Mahabharata.

There were 100 Kauravas and 5 Pandavas.

Did you that the 100 KAURAVAS were all clones!?

No woman., no woman can ever give birth to 100 children in her life time and

remain young and healthy!

Think over that.

Regards.

Babu.

-

"Tej Pal Chadha" <tejpalchadha

Friday, March 11, 2005 10:47 AM

RE: AW: AW: Bhagwat Thumping/Finding the Truth

>

> Shabnamji,

>

> Nothing funny about your learning coming from your life's experiences and

> from study. However I am deeply amused by the ease by which people get

> offended on the list. Also how careful they are in trying to ensure that no

> one else gets offended. Also I'm not referring to any one person in

> particular.

>

> Cheers,

> Tejpal

>

>>"Bioacoustics" <bioacoustics

>>valist

>><valist>

>>AW: AW: Bhagwat Thumping/Finding the Truth

>>Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:31:49 +0100

>>

>>Dear Amarji,

>>

>>Please forgive me. Seems I have offended you somehow, although I was

>>actually responding to Rick`s perception of your mails rather than

>>commenting on your mails directly.

>>

>>I infact, find your mails most informative & am suitably impressed at your

>>ability to quote the scriptures, seeing as I dont know them at all but

>>would

>>really like to.

>>

>>Tejpalji might find it even funnier when I admit that most of my

>>understanding comes from life`s experiences & mythological DVDs like

>>Krishna, Mahabharat, Ramayan, Vishnu Puran etc. I have over a hundred of

>>these & love to watch them despite their rough quality.

>>And now I have the good fortune to learn from so many learned people on

>>this

>>list.

>>

>>Looking forward to your mails.

>>

>>Hari Om.

>>

>>Shabnam

>>

>>-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----

>>Von: fas fas [foreignersassistance]

>>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Marz 2005 18:51

>>An: valist

>>Betreff: RE: AW: Bhagwat Thumping/Finding the Truth

>>

>>Hello dear learned members,

>>

>>Hare Krishna.

>>

>>We perceive things (knowledge) according to our status of mental plateform

>>on a different level followed by the quality of the mode of material nature

>>at particular time, place and circumstances.

>>

>>" Just like the Sun is there always. It may come before your vision or not

>>- the sun is there and open to everyone. But if you are fortunate you come

>>before the Sun."

>>

>>Is the above statement is any dogmatic or belong to a particular cult ? To

>>believe in Sun's existence is a dogmatic or cult. Is Sun's existence not a

>>universal ? So, where is the difficulty to accept the truth of the

>>knowledge of the Bhagavat Gita where Lord Shri Krishna says, I am the SUN.

>>?

>>

>>The Shakti (Engery of all kind) and The Shaktiman can not exist one without

>>the other. Where there is Purusha (Shaktiman) there is a Shakti (Engergy).

>>The Shakti can not exist alone. Therefore, Shakti is female and Shaktiman

>>is male. This is why GOD, the creator is known in the scripture

>>Brahma-samhita, "GOVINDAM ADI- PURUSHAM TAM AHAM BHAJAMI..." This hymn

>>sung

>>by Lord Brahma to glorify the creator Govinda - Krishna.

>>

>>Further Lord Shiva also glorify Govinda, Krishna ;

>>

>>In the Sri Sanatkumara-samhita, from the ancient Skanda Purana, we find a

>>conversation between the great sage Sri Narada and Lord Sadashiva, the

>>master of the demigods. Starting at text number 26 to text 30, Narada Muni

>>asks Lord Sadashiva, "O master please tell what method the people of

>>Kali-yuga may adopt to easily attain the transcendental abode of Lord Hari

>>[Krishna]. O Lord, what mantra will carry the people from this world of

>>birth and death? So everyone may benefit, please tell it to me. O Lord, of

>>all mantras what mantra needs no purashcharana, no nyasa, no yoga, no

>>samskara, and no other thing? A single utterance of the Lord's holy name

>>gives the highest result. O master of the demigods, if I am competent to

>>hear it, please kindly tell me the Lord's holy name."

>>In texts 31-35 , Lord Sadashiva gives his answer: Lord Sadashiva said: "O

>>fortunate one, your question is excellent. O you who wish for the welfare

>>of

>>all, I will tell you the secret chintamani [wish-fulfilling] jewel of all

>>mantras. I will tell you the secret of secrets, the most confidential of

>>all

>>confidential things. I will tell you what I have not told either the

>>goddess

>>or your elder brothers. I will tell you two peerless Krishna mantras that

>>are the crest-jewels of all mantras.

>>

>>One mantra is:

>>"'Gopijana-vallabha-charanau sharanam prapadye.' (I take shelter of the

>>feet

>>of He who is the gopi's beloved) This mantra has three compound words, five

>>individual words and sixteen syllables.

>>

>>"The second mantra is: 'Namo gopijana-vallabhabhyam.' (Obeisances to the

>>divine couple, who are dear to the gopis) This mantra has two words and ten

>>syllables.

>>

>>In texts 36-41, Lord Sadashiva continues: "One who either with faith or

>>without faith once chants this five-word mantra resides among Lord

>>Krishna's

>>gopi-beloveds. Of this there is no doubt. In chanting these mantras there

>>is

>>no need of purshcharana, nyasa, ari-shuddhi, mitra-shuddhi, or other kinds

>>of purification. In chanting these mantras there is no restriction of time

>>or place. All, from the lowest outcaste to the greatest sage, are eligible

>>to chant this mantra. Women, shudras, and all others are eligible. The

>>paralyzed, mute, blind, and lame are eligible. The Andhras, Hunas, Kiratas,

>>Pulindas, Pukkashas, Abhiras, Yavanas, Kankas, Khashas, and all others born

>>from sinful wombs are also eligible. They who are overcome with pride and

>>ego, who are intent on committing sins, who are killers of cows and

>>brahmanas, and who are the greatest of sinners, are also eligible. They who

>>have neither knowledge nor renunciation, they who have never studied the

>>shruti-shastra and other scriptures, and all others, whoever they may be,

>>are also eligible to chant these mantras."

>>

>>Then in texts 42-48 Lord Sadashiva explains who is not eligible and who

>>should not be told these sacred mantras or the purpose of them:

>>

>>"Anyone who has devotion to Lord Krishna, the master of all masters, is

>>eligible to chant these mantras, but they who have no devotion, even they

>>may be the greatest of sages, are not eligible. They who have performed

>>many

>>yajnas, given charity, visited all holy places, been devoted to speaking

>>the

>>truth, accepted the renounced order, traveled to the farther shore of the

>>Vedas and Vedangas, devotedly served the brahmanas, taken birth in good

>>families, and performed austerities and vows, but are not devoted to Lord

>>Krishna, are not eligible to chant these mantras. Therefore these mantras

>>should not be spoken to one who is not devoted to Lord Hari, nor to one who

>>is ungrateful, proud, or faithless, nor to an atheist or a blasphemer. One

>>should not speak these mantras to one who does not wish to hear them, nor

>>to

>>one who has not stayed for one year in the speaker's ashrama. One should

>>carefully give these mantras to one who is free from hypocrisy, greed,

>>lust,

>>anger, and other vices, and who is sincerely devoted to Lord Krishna. The

>>sage of this mantra is Lord Sadashiva. The meter is Gayatri. The Deity is

>>Lord Krishna, the beloved of the gopis. The purpose is to attain service to

>>dear Lord Hari."

>>

>>In text 53 Lord Sadashiva says: "By once chanting this mantra one attains

>>success. Of this there is no doubt. Still, for the purpose of chanting japa

>>one should chant this mantra ten times daily."

>>In texts 54-77 of the Sri Sanatkumara-samhita, Lord Sadashiva describes the

>>most nectarean meditation of the mantras, after which he continues with

>>many

>>additional topics in regard to the pastimes of Radha and Krishna and the

>>importance of the land of Vrindavana:

>>

>>"O best of brahmanas, now I will tell you the meditation of this mantra. I

>>meditate on two-armed Lord Krishna, who is dark like a monsoon cloud,

>>dressed in yellow garments, garlanded with forest flowers... crowned with a

>>peacock feather, and garlanded with lotus whorls, whose face is splendid

>>like ten million moons, whose eyes move restlessly... whose forehead is

>>marked with tilaka of sandal paste and musk... who is splendid with

>>earrings

>>like two rising suns, whose perspiration-anointed cheeks are like two

>>glistening mirrors... who with raised eyebrows playfully glances at His

>>beloved's face, the tip of whose graceful raised nose is decorated with a

>>glistening pearl... whose bimba-fruit lips are splendid in the moonlight of

>>His teeth, whose hands are splendid with bracelets, armlets, and jewel

>>rings... who holds a flute in His left lotus hand, whose waist is splendid

>>with a graceful belt, whose feet are splendid with graceful anklets...

>>whose

>>eyes are restless with the nectar of amorous pastimes, who jokes with His

>>beloved, making Her laugh again and again... and who stays with Her on a

>>jewel throne under a kalpa-vriksha tree in Vrindavana forest. In this way

>>one should meditate on Lord Krishna and His beloved."

>>

>>Adjustment of all sorts in the material world do not solve all material

>>problems because the Jiva atma (Soul) is not material. It is spiritual.

>>Due to the attachment and wrongly identifying the Jiva to be the body and

>>bodly senses, we enjoy or suffer according to our action and its reaction

>>continuiously binding the Jiva into the laws of karma and incarnation life

>>after life after life.

>>

>>This is what we study in the Jyotish the material suffering and finding the

>>solution. Isn't it ? So, why not at least try to get out of this cycle of

>>birth and death as per Bhagavat Gita, and share this knowledge freely to

>>people from all walks of life.

>>

>>Only with the knowledge of HOW TO DEVELOP LOVE OF GOD WITH PROPER SPIRITUAL

>>ACTIVITIES can we rise progressively above the Laws of Karma.

>>

>>THE ASTROLOGY IS THE VITAL TOOL OF KNOWING OUR DESTINY AND ITS PURPOSE TO

>>DEVELOP SUCH LOVE OF GOD IF GUIDED BY THE COMPETENT ASTROLOGER.

>>

>>So, we are all Astrologers nearly 1000 one thousand members on this forum

>>and let us continue help people.

>>

>>Hari BOL. OM TAT SAT.

>>

>>With my best wishes and regards.........AMAR PURI.

>>

>> >"Tej Pal Chadha" <tejpalchadha

>> >valist

>> >RE: AW: Bhagwat Thumping

>> >Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:20:41 +0000

>> >

>> >Kronos might well be Shani (well he is equated with the Roman god Saturn

>> >anyways) or might not. Thinking about this whole understanding the Gods

>> >thing... makes me laugh sometimes. Kinda akin to an ant trying to figure

>> >out

>> >human beings, but never being able to.

>> >

>> > >"Bioacoustics" <bioacoustics

>> > >valist

>> > ><valist>

>> > >AW: Bhagwat Thumping

>> > >Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:19:02 +0100

>> > >

>> > >Dear Rick,

>> > >

>> > >I dislike dogma & cults but I wont throw the baby out with the bath

>> >water,

>> > >in a manner of speaking.

>> > >

>> > >We can take what we want or need & let the rest be.

>> > >

>> > >As for Christ/krishna, Ultimately they are both representations of

>> > >Universal Consciousness.... & us, being made of material ( Devi

>>Shakti/

>> > >Mother mary ) stuff, we are irrevocably tied to the laws of physics one

>> >of

>> > >which is the Law of cause & effect or Karma if you will.

>> > >Simplistically put, if I stick my finger in the fire, it will burn.....

>> >or

>> > >looking at it another way, If I keep drawing from the bank without

>> >putting

>> > >any money in, sooner or later I will have to face my consequential

>>debit

>> > >and

>> > >if I die before they can put me in the debtors prison, then my children

>> > >would be held responsible until they clear my debts.

>> > >On a brighter note, they would also inherit any investments I might

>>leave

>> > >behind.

>> > >

>> > >Its probably futile, hating / blaming mother ( by birth or adoption or

>> > >representation )for reminding one.

>> > >

>> > >As I see it, resistance, lack of acceptance, value judgements etc:

>>these

>> > >are

>> > >some of the stuff pain is made of. On my best days, I experience taking

>> > >full

>> > >personal responsibility, as pure freedom.

>> > >

>> > >I`m lovingly sharing some of my conclusions from personal experiences.

>> >Hope

>> > >they do not offend.

>> > >

>> > >In one of your posts you have talked about the difficulties of matching

>> > >mythological figures from different cultures. I was wondering if it

>>would

>> > >make this easier if we matched Archetypes rather than names & myths as

>> > >these

>> > >can be adjusted to accomodate socio-geographic circumstances. For

>> >example,

>> > >Demeter / Parvati or Kronos / Shani....just contemplating......

>> > >

>> > >Hari Om.

>> > >

>> > >Shabnam

>> > >

>> > >-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----

>> > >Von: Das Goravani []

>> > >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. Marz 2005 22:00

>> > >An: valist

>> > >Betreff: Re: Bhagwat Thumping

>> > >

>> > > > Is it not true that you are one of the initiated devotee of the Lord

>> > >Shri

>> > > > Krishna? Therefore,you are in the parampara regardless how you

>>feel,

>> > >think,

>> > > >act and believe or disbelive, accept or reject out of your free

>>WILL.

>> > >

>> > >You sound just like my mother, who used to tell me that since I'm

>> >baptized

>> > >I

>> > >am Catholic, and Jesus owns me, and I'll be back, no matter what.

>>"YOU'RE

>> >A

>> > >CATHOLIC" she used to yell, when I talked about Krishna. Now you're

>> >telling

>> > >me "You're a Vaisnava, no matter what!"

>> > >

>> > >So, for those who are watching this, this is about a Vaisnava or Hindu

>> > >Orthodox Disciplic Succession principle that says that you are

>>eternally

>> > >owned by your Guru and the Succession (Parampara) he is in. So, I am

>>now

>> > >"permanently a Vaisnava under Sridhar Maharaj, even in the afterlife".

>> > >

>> > >This is very similar to some other religions. This is a very

>>mechanistic,

>> > >personalistic, view, similar to Catholics, Mormons, and many others.

>> > >

>> > >It's almost to the point of burying people with their cars and servants

>> >for

>> > >the trip, like ancient China, Egypt, and so on. These Vaisnavas

>>venerate

>> > >little chips of cloth from past Gurus, like Catholics venerate even the

>> > >body

>> > >parts of past Saints.

>> > >

>> > >Interesting Stuff. Us humans trying to figure out where we are, what

>>we

>> > >are, and so on, and get saved, saved from future suffering, saved from

>> >not

>> > >understanding, saved from being lower than we think is acceptable, and

>>so

>> > >on.

>> > >

>> > >Das Goravani, Pres.

>> > >

>> > >Service

>> > >

>> > >http://www.dancingmooninc.com

>> > >

>> > > Links

>> > >

>> > > Links

>> > >

>> >

>> > Links

>> >

>>

>> Links

>>

>> Links

>>

>

> Links

>

March 11, 2005

Hello dear Shabnam and the List Members,

Hare Krishna.

This is simply your Humility, dear Shabnam, what you are saying in your

writing. That's all. You or others have not offended me or any body on

this list. We are sharing and learning from the revealed authoritative

scripture as accepted by the other learned Scholars.

Yes, every one is free to say, right or wrong, regardless. To make the

discussion more enlightened, one may quote from the scripture which is

considered the highest authority in the eyes of the laws of nature.

Simply saying for the sake of saying or writing without any relevent

reference to the subject (discussion) with duplicity in mind or diplomatic

approach always create misguidance and leads to so many unnecessary doubts

and frustrations in the mind of the true seeker.

Therefore, my humble suggestion is that let us keep our discussion

spiritually healthy for higher learning purpose. After all that is what

Jyotish is about learning higher multi dimensional relam of the Creator.

More later.

Hari BOL. OM TAT SAT.

With my best wishes and regards............AMAR PURI.