Is meat eating Genetically necessary for some?

[Guest guest]

Dear Das: I think you are right. Im 60 years old and

went totaly vegetarian at about 25 years old. I didnt

notice myself becoming weaker. I did lose about 25

lbs. As I got older I gained about 20 of it back. It

seemed like I craved food after my dinner. It didnt

matter if I jogged my 3 miles a day or lifted my

weights or Joggged my three miles or also walked 4

more,I couldnt shed those extra pounds.I wasnt flabby.

I was about 5Ft 11 inches and about 205lbs. I was

bulky since I had been lifting heavy weight since my

high school days. I than talked to an Indian

Herbalist. He said that the reason I craved so much

food when I wasnt hungry,was due to the fact that my

blood suger levels were out of synch. He felt that

this was due to the fact that MY parents were never

vegetarians and that I had eaten a heavy meat oriented

diet for the first 25 years of my life. When I made

the change over to a strict vegetarian diet, I shocked

the body. The effect on the body was that my blood

sugar levels were affected and they never did adapt to

the radical changeover. They would drop extremely at

night. Even after I ate dinner, I would be continually

eating until I went to bed. I cant imagine how much I

would have weighed if I didnt excercise. I wasnt

eating anything that was considered garbage food,such

as cake or cookies or fast food. Just food from the

health store,cereals whole grain bread, vegie

burgers,peanut butter etc.I realize also that

anything in excess,even health food can put weight on

you. The herbalist reccomended that I take an Indian

herb called Gymnema. He said this would balance my

blood sugar levels and keep them from bottoming out at

certain times of the day. The effect from the herb was

unbelievable. I quickly lost my cravings for food. I

had fruit or juice in the morning.I had my main salad

and avocado about noon. and my regular meal at about 4

oclock. At night I might have a piece of fruit. I lost

about 20lbs in about 5 months. I just wasnt hungry at

night. I had more energy. If I quit taking the

herb,the cravings would return,especially at night. I

was sleeping less and felt better. In summing all this

up,I would say most people would have some difficulty

making the change from meat eater to vegetarian. My

difficulty seemed to be with my body regulating its

blood sugar levels. Take Care: Roger Miralia

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

My opinion:

 

I don't think eating anything is genetically

necessary. I suspect that eating local and as your

family has done for generations is probably the

healthiest, but not "necessary".

 

I DO think that variety is essential. We all get in

the habit to eat the same stuff. Then you switch to

something you haven't eaten before (or in a long time,

like meat) and suddenly you feel better. But I think

it's from the change, not the type of food.

 

Like changing your shampoo and suddenly your hair

looks better. But you have to keep changing it every

few weeks.

 

I think it's possible to be all vegetarian, but you

have to work at it to find sources for balanced,

healthy nutrition - and I don't think the world is

moving in the direction of working more...

 

My 2 cents

 

--- Das Goravani <> wrote:

 

>

> Hello VA listers,

>

> Many Hindus are vegetarian. Many white people like

> me who have taken up

> Hinduism at some time in their life became

> vegetarian. In America, most

> vegetarians are ³alternative² people...not

> mainstream people...and they

> often dress and look different, and often have less

> money, work less, etc.

>

> I¹m wondering if they are weaker due to lack of

> protein? I know this is an

> old question, but recently I started consuming more

> vegetarian protein, and

> I¹m feeling better. So much so that I¹m working

> again, which is a real

> breakthrough. Actually, the one I¹m using, the

> protein food product,

> probably has some animal derived stuff in it, so

> it¹s a bit against the

> ahimsa rules.

>

> Which brings me to my point- are some of us

> genetically predisposed to need

> animal protein because all our ancestors ate it?

> Some Indian¹s families

> have been vegetarian for many generations. Mine

> have NEVER been vegetarian.

> In fact, most ³normal² white people eat meat 3 times

> a day.

>

> I¹ve noticed that many of my ex Hare Krishna

> brothers and sisters went back

> to eggs, or even meat.

>

> Many people have said they felt terrible until they

> started up again.

> Perhaps for awhile you can get by fine, but

> eventually, your body becomes

> depleted.

>

> I wonder what¹s up with this point, and where it

> will end, what¹s the

> meaning, what¹s the path...can the world be

> vegetarian, or is that ³someday²

> way far away...or not possible? Any opinions?

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

The Hare Krishna movement is filled with many highly Vatta people...Amongst

the white men that stay in it, they definitely tend to look pale, waify, or

fatty. I'm also craving too much, and I notice that a good amount of

protein, vegetarian type, puts this to sleep for awhile, more than anything

else.

 

So many people depend on me and my work. For years now I've been very

shaky, highly sensentive, completely vatta deranged with serious mood

disorders and depression. But I've stuck to my vegetarianism like a proud

barnacle on a whale. And I still want to.

 

This is of interest though. It compliments my study of European history.

Never before our generations now, did white people ever attempt to be

vegetarians as they are today due mainly to the influence of the India

derived thinking systems.

 

I really want to be strong again fully. I feel I am on my way and it's

mainly based on diet and exercise at this point, though I still take my

meds.

 

One bottom line to all this is: Our Gurus didn't tell us about this, and

because I was close to the top in both Hare Krishna and Sridhar Maharaja's

movements, I have to say, the leaders, Indian and White, at that time, did

not know about this impending problem, but I think it is VERY real. The

Hare Krishna movement in general spawns very ill middle aged people. I

think some of the other Indian groups are alike. The recognition that white

people were big, with meat eating backgrounds, was ignored, and they were

instantly turned into acting not only like Indians, but very fine and high

Indian Brahmins no less.

 

To be honest, that amounts to "species starvation". Or, not recognizing for

example, in a zoo setting, that the tiger needs meat, not eggplant.

 

I abhore the thought of eating flesh. It makes mine crawl. I don't think I

ever will, at this time, I still think that way. But I think I have to find

alternatives MORE SO than I ALREADY HAVE. I thought tofu and tempe would

cut it, but I don't think they do.

 

I'm currently turning to high tech supplements- amino acid products, which

are very condensed.

 

My son, who has NEVER eaten meat, became an excellent weight lifter,

wrestler, body builder, hip hop dancer (that is NOT easy), and so on. He's

very fit, and perfectly shaped, but small, but strong, and athletic. So

being vegetarian from birth, including no eggs, didn't deprive him of these

things, but as he goes on in life, as youth runs down, he may need to

change, I believe, as he is small overall, as thin as could be, but ripped

and muscular, like a youth model.

 

My daughter, who has never had meat, fish or eggs, is 22, and has a child,

who is perfect. They're both perfect. My daughter is pitta-kapha, so she's

heavier than her brother, but not too bad. She's slower moving, but can

handle everything. She's not Vatta deranged or even afflicted. She's fine.

Doing great.

 

So my kids, vegetarian from birth, are fine. So far. My grandaughter, is

really big for her age, way oversized in heigth. She's not overweight. Her

father was 6 feet 8 inches though. Very tall. The little girl is showing

that. She's very happy and energetic. She is not fed any meat at all.

She's 2 now.

 

So it seems that there is the point that it depends on what your parents

were, and what you started as.

 

My granddaughter, Fiona, come to think of it, well, her mother, and her

mother, and her mother, were all in the HK movement, and were and all still

are vegetarians. The great grandmother, a Prabhupada disciple, lives in

Vrndavan full time now. So does the aunt. The aunt is married to an

Indian. The grandmother (my ex), is remarried to another HK guy, and so on

it goes. On one side, there is a lot of "White Hinduism" and the

vegetarianism that goes along with it. With that background, in mind and

genes, it's a whole different story.

 

My parents were both heavy meat eaters. Sounds weird to say. All my

ancestors were, and I was, until age 19, when I did a COLD TURKEY as they

say...immediate and sudden...one day...boom...due to who else but

Prabhupada's influence. Felt fine, great, for years, but then one year,

slowly over that year, I delapidated until my current situation, which has

been years of weakness in the mind, nerves, body.

 

Now that there are high tech protein supplements, drinkable, expensive,

well, I can try those. See what happens. That's what I'm doing. So far so

good. I'm writing this letter and programming....gee, that's a good start.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Rick MacQuoid

AIM: ROIKMACKAI IM: das_goravani

 

Secure online ordering of Goravani Jyotish 2.5 and Jyotish Studio 3

 

 

 

 

 

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(Please use email if at all possible)

[Guest guest]

Sonia,

 

The tiger example, and the Fatty Acid digestion study in Scotland I've

previously mentioned, two things that make me see different types of humans

as different types of species sortof...and as such, have different needs,

but this is based on strength of gene, which is watered down over time,

esp., in countries like America...and everyone changes...Japanese kids are

bigger when growing up in America for example. People change. Like my

kids, different from me.

 

So I'm speaking in principle.

 

Again, I'm from a heavy line, myself, different from my kids,

therefore...get it?

 

I think, the nature of the entity comes from past genes, the wave of the

ancestors cursing in our veigns, and that shapes the native, literally, and

that entity created thus has needs based on what it has received...including

how much light, how much Sun, how much movement, how much of certain

nutrients, and so on...even for example...how long of a bed...certain some

basketball players have custom long beds...even how much people have to eat

based on their size....if you have intellectual cells, as opposed to worker

cells, might you need different foods?

 

I think so. Diversity is living.

 

Rick

[Guest guest]

I also did the cold turkey vegetarian switch at 19. Now 42, I'm still

a vegetarian and will never change. But, like you Das, I've had to

get serious about protein. Soy and whey protein supplements, as well

as even snacking upon things like baked tofu, etc. I notice that when

I keep up a (what feels like a) very high level of protein intake, I

am tired a lot. Add in the protein, and suddenly I'm light and

active. This wasn't the case in my 20s and 30s.

 

My family is very athletic. For example, my father was recruited for

professional football, my sister was a world-class gymnast as a

youngster, and so on. So maybe it's easier for me to be vegetarian

and not suffer from too many side effects. I know many people,

however, who -- after a couple of years -- have gotten anemic, vata-

deranged, and sickly. The minute they resumed eating meat, they got

well again.

 

It's quite clear to me that vegetarianism doesn't work for everybody,

and maybe not even for most people.

 

I am a Hindu and much of my vegetarianism is religiously-motivated.

It is interesting in that context to read people like Swami

Vivekananda, who vigorously condemns vegetarianism, and gives a lot

of scriptural proof that it was not the norm in Vedic society. Of

course, these comments of his are controversial, but it's hard to

prove him wrong.

 

I'm not sure there's anything genetic about who can be vegetarian and

who can't, as most of the brahmin families I know -- which are many

-- seem to have a lot of health issues.

 

Just a thought.

M.

 

 

On Nov 2, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Das Goravani wrote:

 

>

> The Hare Krishna movement is filled with many highly Vatta

> people...Amongst

> the white men that stay in it, they definitely tend to look pale,

> waify, or

> fatty. I'm also craving too much, and I notice that a good amount of

> protein, vegetarian type, puts this to sleep for awhile, more than

> anything

> else.

>

> So many people depend on me and my work. For years now I've been very

> shaky, highly sensentive, completely vatta deranged with serious mood

> disorders and depression. But I've stuck to my vegetarianism like

> a proud

> barnacle on a whale. And I still want to.

>

> This is of interest though. It compliments my study of European

> history.

> Never before our generations now, did white people ever attempt to be

> vegetarians as they are today due mainly to the influence of the India

> derived thinking systems.

>

> I really want to be strong again fully. I feel I am on my way and

> it's

> mainly based on diet and exercise at this point, though I still

> take my

> meds.

>

> One bottom line to all this is: Our Gurus didn't tell us about

> this, and

> because I was close to the top in both Hare Krishna and Sridhar

> Maharaja's

> movements, I have to say, the leaders, Indian and White, at that

> time, did

> not know about this impending problem, but I think it is VERY

> real. The

> Hare Krishna movement in general spawns very ill middle aged

> people. I

> think some of the other Indian groups are alike. The recognition

> that white

> people were big, with meat eating backgrounds, was ignored, and

> they were

> instantly turned into acting not only like Indians, but very fine

> and high

> Indian Brahmins no less.

>

> To be honest, that amounts to "species starvation". Or, not

> recognizing for

> example, in a zoo setting, that the tiger needs meat, not eggplant.

>

> I abhore the thought of eating flesh. It makes mine crawl. I don't

> think I

> ever will, at this time, I still think that way. But I think I

> have to find

> alternatives MORE SO than I ALREADY HAVE. I thought tofu and tempe

> would

> cut it, but I don't think they do.

>

> I'm currently turning to high tech supplements- amino acid

> products, which

> are very condensed.

>

> My son, who has NEVER eaten meat, became an excellent weight lifter,

> wrestler, body builder, hip hop dancer (that is NOT easy), and so

> on. He's

> very fit, and perfectly shaped, but small, but strong, and

> athletic. So

> being vegetarian from birth, including no eggs, didn't deprive him

> of these

> things, but as he goes on in life, as youth runs down, he may need to

> change, I believe, as he is small overall, as thin as could be, but

> ripped

> and muscular, like a youth model.

>

> My daughter, who has never had meat, fish or eggs, is 22, and has a

> child,

> who is perfect. They're both perfect. My daughter is pitta-kapha,

> so she's

> heavier than her brother, but not too bad. She's slower moving,

> but can

> handle everything. She's not Vatta deranged or even afflicted.

> She's fine.

> Doing great.

>

> So my kids, vegetarian from birth, are fine. So far. My

> grandaughter, is

> really big for her age, way oversized in heigth. She's not

> overweight. Her

> father was 6 feet 8 inches though. Very tall. The little girl is

> showing

> that. She's very happy and energetic. She is not fed any meat at

> all.

> She's 2 now.

>

> So it seems that there is the point that it depends on what your

> parents

> were, and what you started as.

>

> My granddaughter, Fiona, come to think of it, well, her mother, and

> her

> mother, and her mother, were all in the HK movement, and were and

> all still

> are vegetarians. The great grandmother, a Prabhupada disciple,

> lives in

> Vrndavan full time now. So does the aunt. The aunt is married to an

> Indian. The grandmother (my ex), is remarried to another HK guy,

> and so on

> it goes. On one side, there is a lot of "White Hinduism" and the

> vegetarianism that goes along with it. With that background, in

> mind and

> genes, it's a whole different story.

>

> My parents were both heavy meat eaters. Sounds weird to say. All my

> ancestors were, and I was, until age 19, when I did a COLD TURKEY

> as they

> say...immediate and sudden...one day...boom...due to who else but

> Prabhupada's influence. Felt fine, great, for years, but then one

> year,

> slowly over that year, I delapidated until my current situation,

> which has

> been years of weakness in the mind, nerves, body.

>

> Now that there are high tech protein supplements, drinkable,

> expensive,

> well, I can try those. See what happens. That's what I'm doing.

> So far so

> good. I'm writing this letter and programming....gee, that's a

> good start.

>

>

Thanks

>

> Rick MacQuoid

> AIM: ROIKMACKAI IM: das_goravani

>

> Secure online ordering of Goravani Jyotish 2.5 and Jyotish Studio 3

>

>

>

>

>

> or

> (Please use email if at all possible)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michael

 

Everything you wrote I concur.

 

It's true that in Ancient Vedic scriptures we find the heroes and kings, for

sure, eating meat. This is the ancient Warrior Caste. We have to picture

it more like the "Native Marines". "We're in the Army now".

 

I think the Sages ate meat too. Frankly, I think Ancient India, like

others, was somewhat reliant on animal foods, game, the hunt, because the

times didn't foster the kind of long term settled sophisticated farming

required to sustain vegetarian humans. Meat eating was basically required,

as it was everywhere else.

 

I believe Vegetarianism is an advanced human thing...advanced in evolution,

that when we are sufficiently advanced, we can do it, and keep it up, be

more Vatta, less Pitta, more being brahminical in the classical sense of it.

 

But that requires that we build lasting infrastructures, and many things,

that we still don't have. In fact, we had them more before in some of the

large cities of ancient times.

 

That point about feeling "light", or perhaps we could more correctly call it

energetic. I think we notice we are "heavy" when we don't have "energy" to

lift our muscles and bones around to do tasks, and missing the results of

our tasks, we begin to feel bad about ourselves, blame ourselves.

 

Thus diet can lead to depression in that way. I think this is a lot what

happened to me. I agree with you that I now have to make protein snacking a

priority, but it's not natural for me, in the "likings" department, but I'm

gonna keep going with it.

 

My mind is very Vatta, in Kumba with Ketu. I like the mind. It's in a "big

mind" sign with the "major Antenna".

 

But my Sun is in Taurus.

 

So, I have to put mind on hold, pay attention to needs, of the body. Or I'm

gonna fade away, as I have been.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Rick MacQuoid

AIM: ROIKMACKAI IM: das_goravani

 

Secure online ordering of Goravani Jyotish 2.5 and Jyotish Studio 3

 

 

 

 

 

or

(Please use email if at all possible)

[Guest guest]

Also my ex boyfriend a Parsi (of Iranian/Persian

descent) is an extreme carnivore & O blood type. His

meat eating was to such an extent that I used to

wonder if we'd be able to peacefully cohabit with our

vast dietary differences. Of course we never found out

since we split in my 28-29th year during my Sat MD.

Interestingly he's got a blood disorder called G6PD

which is due to inbreeding (common amongst Parsis in

India). This makes him (fatally) allergic to certain

food groups, one of which is tomatoes !!

 

--- surfgold <surfgold2001 wrote:

 

> Thanks Juliana for the interesting info. My family &

> lineage is entirely brahmin on both sides. My

> parents,

> siblings & I are all A+. My father was a strict

> veggie

> till he joined the Navy in his teens & changed

> radically & happily ate all kinds of meat. Mom tried

> it (for his sake) but could not change her

> vegetarian

> self. We siblings were brought up on an occasional

> meat but mostly vegetarian diet. I am vegetarian

> most

> of the time but get seafood & meat cravings

> sometimes.

> Could that be because of the change in my father's

> diet years before my birth ? Though I'm fine after

> eating seafood, I don't feel too good (guilty maybe

> ?)

> after eating meat. Is that my blood type / racial

> memory telling me to go veg ? My elder sis has

> become

> vegetarian esp since she started doing yoga quite

> regularly. The eldest sis is vegetarian as she's

> married to a strict veggie. I know she too (like me

> )

> has occasional seafood cravings.

>

> --- Juliana Swanson <omhamsa wrote:

>

> > Hey y'all...

> >

> > Thanks for the interesting discussion. I have been

> > an ethical-

> > religious vegetarian since I was about 14 years

> old,

> > but I remember

> > when I started seriously thinking about

> > vegetarianism as a very

> > young child...it happened when I watched an uncle

> > grilling steaks

> > and discovered that the red stuff oozing out of

> the

> > flesh was blood.

> > I was never keen on the white stringy stuff in

> > chicken either--

> > tendons and fascia--yuck. I was a vegan for a

> while

> > in college but

> > got so anemic that I started eating eggs again,

> and

> > like you guys, I

> > also feel better eating more protein in my old

> age.

> >

> > Have you ever read about Peter D'Adamo's Blood

> Type

> > diet? I do not

> > follow it because I am Type O, which he says

> evolved

> > from the

> > prehistoric hunter-gatherers and who is supposed

> to

> > thrive on meat.

> > I do not follow his suggestions because they go

> > against my religious

> > beliefs against eating meat, but I make sure to

> > limit wheat gluten

> > and take digestive enzymes, which he says will

> help

> > Type O's feel

> > better. I also like chewy meat substitutes like

> > baked tofu and

> > veggie sausage, which has a texture that appeals

> to

> > my inner hunter-

> > gatherer.

> >

> > Interestingly, according to D'Adamo's

> theory...which

> > is only a

> > theory...the Type A-1 and A-2 blood types evolved

> > much later than

> > Type O's. Type A came out of agrarian cultures, so

> > that supposedly,

> > A and A-B blood types do better physically with

> > diets based on

> > grains and carbohydrates. Blood type B evolved

> after

> > O, A and A-B,

> > and is more of a balance of both.

> >

> > Anyway, in the Blood Type diet theory, blood types

> > relate to

> > different cultures and parts of the world.

> >

> > Type O is the most common all over the planet, and

> > is dominant in

> > Amerindians of South and Central America and in

> the

> > southern 2/3 of

> > the United States.

> >

> > Type B is high in Asia, with a maximum in Northern

> > India...it is low

> > in Europe and Africa and absent among American

> > Indians and in most

> > Australian Aborigines.

> >

> > Type A-1 is common all over the world and exists

> to

> > the exclusion of

> > type A-2 among the Inuit and Autralian Aborginals,

> > and in parts of

> > the South Pacific, India, Indonesia, Canada, and

> the

> > northern 1/3 of

> > the United States.

> >

> > So it is interesting that there is a cultural

> > prference for

> > vegetarianism in India where Type A and B blood

> > types predominate,

> > and there is a preference for meat in the US where

> > Type O

> > predominates. My husband is Type A, but of German

> > and Scandinavian

> > descent, so I imagine that his ancestors came from

> > lower Germany

> > where Type A blood predominates. Our kids are Type

> > O, which I think

> > may be related to a dominant gene (that's me).

> >

> > Das...I imagine that you are Type O like me. Do

> you

> > know?

> >

> > Love to all,

> > Juliana

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > :

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I agree with Mary re: variety being the key with any "special"

or "restrictive" diet, esp. in terms of being Vegan, or just

considering farming practices in the modern world.

 

I have also experimented with "hi-tech" protein in the form of

powders with some success; and felt let down by relying on soy

products. (I am American, white male of German/ Italian/ Eastern

Euro. descent.) So I think maybe it is food quality and food variety

that is at the core of issue of Vegetarians who come from meat-

eater stock.

 

Another thing to consider in a vegetarian diet is the issue of

EFA's. Many vegetarians stay away from eggs and fish and so have a

hard time getting the complete range of Essential Fatty Acids which

have been implicated in a lot of nervous system issues, esp. mood,

feeling sharp, that sort of thing. Supposedly, some can be

synthesized from Flax and Borage oils, but it is controversial how

this process compares to the more direct mode of Fish Oils.

 

Just thought I would add my 2 cents

 

David

 

 

 

 

valist, Mary Quinn <mary1quinn> wrote:

>

> My opinion:

>

> I don't think eating anything is genetically

> necessary. I suspect that eating local and as your

> family has done for generations is probably the

> healthiest, but not "necessary".

>

> I DO think that variety is essential. We all get in

> the habit to eat the same stuff. Then you switch to

> something you haven't eaten before (or in a long time,

> like meat) and suddenly you feel better. But I think

> it's from the change, not the type of food.

>

> Like changing your shampoo and suddenly your hair

> looks better. But you have to keep changing it every

> few weeks.

>

> I think it's possible to be all vegetarian, but you

> have to work at it to find sources for balanced,

> healthy nutrition - and I don't think the world is

> moving in the direction of working more...

>

> My 2 cents

>

> --- Das Goravani <das@g...> wrote:

>

> >

> > Hello VA listers,

> >

> > Many Hindus are vegetarian. Many white people like

> > me who have taken up

> > Hinduism at some time in their life became

> > vegetarian. In America, most

> > vegetarians are ³alternative² people...not

> > mainstream people...and they

> > often dress and look different, and often have less

> > money, work less, etc.

> >

> > I¹m wondering if they are weaker due to lack of

> > protein? I know this is an

> > old question, but recently I started consuming more

> > vegetarian protein, and

> > I¹m feeling better. So much so that I¹m working

> > again, which is a real

> > breakthrough. Actually, the one I¹m using, the

> > protein food product,

> > probably has some animal derived stuff in it, so

> > it¹s a bit against the

> > ahimsa rules.

> >

> > Which brings me to my point- are some of us

> > genetically predisposed to need

> > animal protein because all our ancestors ate it?

> > Some Indian¹s families

> > have been vegetarian for many generations. Mine

> > have NEVER been vegetarian.

> > In fact, most ³normal² white people eat meat 3 times

> > a day.

> >

> > I¹ve noticed that many of my ex Hare Krishna

> > brothers and sisters went back

> > to eggs, or even meat.

> >

> > Many people have said they felt terrible until they

> > started up again.

> > Perhaps for awhile you can get by fine, but

> > eventually, your body becomes

> > depleted.

> >

> > I wonder what¹s up with this point, and where it

> > will end, what¹s the

> > meaning, what¹s the path...can the world be

> > vegetarian, or is that ³someday²

> > way far away...or not possible? Any opinions?

>

>

>

>

>

> Start your day with - Make it your home page!

> http://www./r/hs

>

[Guest guest]

I never did think about the "nutritional /protein

deficiency" angle before this discussion. FOOD for

thought !

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

http://farechase.

[Guest guest]

Hi David,

 

Regarding EFAs:

 

I have also heard about the controversy regarding how

well the body can or cannot convert flax (grind the

seeds before you eat them) and borage. I've also heard

(from Udo Erasmus) about all the ways oil companies

use to destroy oils before they go on the market

(boiling, bleach, etc).

 

Vegetarians avoid Fish Oils for obvious reasons, but

the body takes the components of fish oil (EHA, I

think) and converts it to the end product of DHA.

 

Vegetarians can avoid all that by taking DHA taking

from algae/plankton. It's on the market labeled as

"Neuromins DHA". It is, so far as I know, the only

vegetarian source.

 

They say that vegetarians should take 1000mg a day.

Source Naturals has the (virtually) only 200mg softgel

available. It's expensive. But there's a website

(www.iherb.com) where they sell it the cheapest I've

ever seen it.

 

DHA's highest content is found in eggs (of any

species) because the mother passes her "store" to her

children so they can develop their brain, eyes, mind,

etc. They say that families with many children (say,

10) end up with a lot of mind/brain/eye illnesses

because of this depletion. After all, Mom can't give

as much to the 10th child as the 1st. Then, of course,

Mom ends up depressed herself, having nothing left.

 

 

 

--- David Engisch <d_engisch wrote:

 

> Hello,

>

> I agree with Mary re: variety being the key with any

> "special"

> or "restrictive" diet, esp. in terms of being Vegan,

> or just

> considering farming practices in the modern world.

>

> I have also experimented with "hi-tech" protein in

> the form of

> powders with some success; and felt let down by

> relying on soy

> products. (I am American, white male of German/

> Italian/ Eastern

> Euro. descent.) So I think maybe it is food quality

> and food variety

> that is at the core of issue of Vegetarians who come

> from meat-

> eater stock.

>

> Another thing to consider in a vegetarian diet is

> the issue of

> EFA's. Many vegetarians stay away from eggs and fish

> and so have a

> hard time getting the complete range of Essential

> Fatty Acids which

> have been implicated in a lot of nervous system

> issues, esp. mood,

> feeling sharp, that sort of thing. Supposedly, some

> can be

> synthesized from Flax and Borage oils, but it is

> controversial how

> this process compares to the more direct mode of

> Fish Oils.

>

> Just thought I would add my 2 cents

>

> David

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

 

[Guest guest]

Mary,

 

I have heard of Neuromins and sometimes take it for precisely the

reasons you mention. Maybe we should tie this back to astroloy now.

(heh) I remember seeing something about Jupiter and the Navamsa and

the necessity of adopting a vegetarian diet when a native has a

certain placemen there. Does that sounds familiar to anyone? Probably

the Jupiter- brahmin connection...

 

Uh-oh, since you mention Iherb, time for the plug. I actually work for

a website that is pretty low priced on this type of thing.

 

www.SMARTbomb.com (pardon the name)

www.nationalsupplementcenter.com

 

Thanks,

 

David

 

valist, Mary Quinn <mary1quinn> wrote:

>

> Hi David,

>

> Regarding EFAs:

>

> I have also heard about the controversy regarding how

> well the body can or cannot convert flax (grind the

> seeds before you eat them) and borage. I've also heard

> (from Udo Erasmus) about all the ways oil companies

> use to destroy oils before they go on the market

> (boiling, bleach, etc).

>

> Vegetarians avoid Fish Oils for obvious reasons, but

> the body takes the components of fish oil (EHA, I

> think) and converts it to the end product of DHA.

>

> Vegetarians can avoid all that by taking DHA taking

> from algae/plankton. It's on the market labeled as

> "Neuromins DHA". It is, so far as I know, the only

> vegetarian source.

>

> They say that vegetarians should take 1000mg a day.

> Source Naturals has the (virtually) only 200mg softgel

> available. It's expensive. But there's a website

> (www.iherb.com) where they sell it the cheapest I've

> ever seen it.

>

> DHA's highest content is found in eggs (of any

> species) because the mother passes her "store" to her

> children so they can develop their brain, eyes, mind,

> etc. They say that families with many children (say,

> 10) end up with a lot of mind/brain/eye illnesses

> because of this depletion. After all, Mom can't give

> as much to the 10th child as the 1st. Then, of course,

> Mom ends up depressed herself, having nothing left.

>

>

>

> --- David Engisch <d_engisch@h...> wrote:

>

> > Hello,

> >

> > I agree with Mary re: variety being the key with any

> > "special"

> > or "restrictive" diet, esp. in terms of being Vegan,

> > or just

> > considering farming practices in the modern world.

> >

> > I have also experimented with "hi-tech" protein in

> > the form of

> > powders with some success; and felt let down by

> > relying on soy

> > products. (I am American, white male of German/

> > Italian/ Eastern

> > Euro. descent.) So I think maybe it is food quality

> > and food variety

> > that is at the core of issue of Vegetarians who come

> > from meat-

> > eater stock.

> >

> > Another thing to consider in a vegetarian diet is

> > the issue of

> > EFA's. Many vegetarians stay away from eggs and fish

> > and so have a

> > hard time getting the complete range of Essential

> > Fatty Acids which

> > have been implicated in a lot of nervous system

> > issues, esp. mood,

> > feeling sharp, that sort of thing. Supposedly, some

> > can be

> > synthesized from Flax and Borage oils, but it is

> > controversial how

> > this process compares to the more direct mode of

> > Fish Oils.

> >

> > Just thought I would add my 2 cents

> >

> > David

>

>

>

>

>

> Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

>

>

[Guest guest]

Das,

An interesting book in these matters of type "O" blood is , "The Primal

Diet" by Aajonus Vonderplanitz.

 

Dark*Star

________________________________

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

Here is a theory:

 

It well may be that to be vegetarian is harder on the body for those of

us whose families have been eating animals for generations, and even

more difficult for those of us who have made the switch later in life

rather than earlier.

 

This makes sense in a number of ways:

 

1) Relationship between food and us:

 

Humans did not evolve in isolation - all of nature, including humans,

has evolved together as a whole. As a species, what we have eaten

throughout the ages has directly informed the form & function of our

body. In this way our relationship to food is essentially oneness.

Therefor, if our recent ancestral history has been characterized by a

carnivore diet then our body's form and function has been directly

informed by this diet. Consequently, a shift from such a diet would

cause the body to gradually change - such an change could be rough for

awhile! And if our ancestry includes many generations of meat-eating

then it would make sense that it could take more that one generation in

order for the body to excel on a vegetarian diet. That may explain

accounts of one person having a rough time switching, but then their

children and grand children do very well with the vegetarian diet.

 

Also, what we grew up eating in this life is just as important as what

we collectively grew up eating as a sepecies and what our specific

ancestory grew up eating. Our early years, our "formative years" is

when we are most influenced by food (and not just food we eat, but

all "food" we recieve through all 5 senses). So if we were raised

eating animals then it may be rougher on the body to switch later in

life -- and the later we switch the harder it could be.

 

As a side note, this is explains why genetically modifying our food

source is so devasting -- this is the food that we grew up on as a

species, the food that we've evolved with for generations and

generations. The memory the food has -- the memory which informs the

body of its proper form and function is completely distorted by genetic

modification. And the healing power (power to re-inform the body of

its proper form and function) of such food is lost. I suspect the

mentality that gave rise to the distortion of our food's memory has

concurrently given rise to the distortion of cellular memory -- i.e.

cancer, and has given rise to abundant food allergies (body not

recognizing food to be food).

 

Another side note - this is also why eating the wholesome foods of our

childhood and of our ancestory is so nourishing for us!

 

But, to get back on track, from my view this relationship we have to

food explains why it may be harder to become a vegetarian for those

with meat-eating ancestors (O-type blood ancestry?) and even more so

for those who make the switch later in life.

 

I go along with the view that the original and natural food for humans

is milk and the fruit of the earth (i.e. vegetarian diet). This is

explained well by Jnanavatar Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri, Guru of

Paramahansa Yogananda, in His _Kaivalya Darsanam_ ("The Holy Science") -

by observation of teeth (human teeth match those of frugivorous

animals), observation of digestive canal (ratio of digestive canal

length to body length for humans matches that of frugivorous animals),

observation of organs of sense ("in men of all races we find that their

senses of smell, sound, and sight never lead them to slaughter

animals; on the contrary they cannot bear even the sight of such

killings... Slaughter-houses are always recommended to be removed far

from the towns... Can flesh then be considered the natural food of man,

when both his eyes and his nose are so much against it, unless deceived

by flavors of spices, salt, and sugar?), and other observations (pages

63-68). Perhaps eating meat grew as a necessity for survival in some

areas but certainly not as a natural human inclination.

 

 

Here is another way to explain why it is hard to switch:

 

2) "Karma":

 

Ancestral karma: perhaps difficulty in transitioning to vegetarianism

for those whose family has been eating meat for generations is because

the of the amount of karma created by the ancestors in doing so. The

one who is taking it upon themself to become vegetarian carries the

weight of this ancestral karma. Enduring and overcoming the bodily

suffering/ dealing with weakness that may be encountered as a result of

switching to vegetarianism can be said to be a way of breaking this

meat-eating karma. It is said the our acts can help/hinder our

ancestors several generations back and our progency for several

generations to come.

 

Same concept can be applied to those who switch later in life -- the

karma "accumulated" by past meat-eating is played out as difficultly

encounted when switching to vegetarian diet.

 

3) Can be also labeled "habit"

 

If we grew up with the habit of eating meat then it is hard to change

and it takes time and effort. Same goes generationally speaking. On

the other hand, if we have the habit of eating a vegetarian diet for

generations and we grew up on a vegetarian diet then it is easy to

maintain.

To put it simply, it is easy to repeat a habit and it takes effort to

change it.

 

1), 2), and 3) can be seen as different ways of looking at the same

thing.

 

By the way, the mention of Swami Vivekananda given in this thread is

the first I've heard of any saint/sages of any of traditions I've

encountered recommending anything other than a vegetarian diet. Swami

Vivekananda really does not recommend vegetarianism?

 

My teacher, Sri Swamini Mayatitanda, teaches that in order for there to

be real peace the mentality of violence has to be eradicated - and the

slaughter of animals perpetuates this mentality. Adopting a vegetarian

diet is a huge step towards harmony both inward and outward.

 

"In the USA, 660,000 animals are butchered for meat every hour. The

animals' suffering adds to the universe's vibration of lawlessness,

injustice, and inhumanity that affect and afflict the present human

condition."

 

Swaminiji is the founder of the Wise Earth School of Ayurveda

<www.wisearth.org>

 

Much love,

Sundaram

 

"And God said, Behold, I haven given you every herb bearing seed, which

is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the

fruit of a tree yeilding seed; to you it shall be for meat."

 

Genesis 1:29

 

 

"May the universe never abuse food.

Breath is food.

The body eats food,

This body rests on breath,

Breath rests on the body,

Food is resting on food.

The one who knows this

becomes rich in food and great in fame."

 

Taittiriya Upanishad 11.7

 

 

Sri Gurubhyo Namah