dating of Rg Veda

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Regarding the dating of the Rg Veda, the "bookend" dates of 1900 BCE (terminus

post quem) and 1200 BCE (terminus ante quem) have been fairly well established

using modern linguistic and archeological analysis of textual and archeological

data.

 

For those not familiar with "linguistic dating" of texts, it's a process of

determining the age of texts by noting important linguistic change markers.

Even when texts describe "eternal" things like cosmology, morality and ritual,

it is still possible to identify when they were written. Older texts show

thicker "strata" of words & grammatical structures from "parent" languages;

whilst "newer" texts show change markers like words for new things, new

grammar, and perhaps influence of the languages of incoming conquerors. (And

many other change markers.)

 

This method is used to date scriptures of all the great religions. For example

Hebrew Bible, interpreted in received tradition as an ageless single book, is

linguistically understood to be a patchwork quilt of many scrolls, composed by

tribal authors over at least a millennium, which was finally "sewn together" as

late as 400 CE. (A major portion, Torah, was complete by 500 BCE.) Similarly,

the canonical NT gospels, known in received tradition as eyewitness reports,

were actually written from 50 CE until 100 CE in three different languages

(Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic).

 

One item used in dating the Rg Veda is that 1200 BCE is the (approx) earliest

evidence of iron in India. There are references to earlier metals in RV but

not to iron. Combine this observation with dozens of other "dating clues"

referring to agricultural methods, domesticated animals, types of plows etc.,

and scholars start to form a picture of the "time zone". Note there is a ref

to iron in Atharva Veda, which - along with dozens of others clues - points to

AV being a later text.

 

Linguistic analysis requires a lot of sleuthing, using all available clues to

place a text historically while remaining honest and open-minded about the

possibility of new data. There is certainly new thinking going on all the time,

but overall the last few decades of intensive Indological research, coordinating

textual and archeological analysis, have yielded pretty consistent findings.

 

Linguistically inclined Jyotishi (like me) might be interested to read this link

re: RV dating, given by eminent Indologist Michael Witzel, head of the dept of

Sanskrit & Indian Studies at Harvard University.

 

http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-shl/wa?A2=ind9912&L=indology&P=R2

 

 

Hope this viewpoint is useful for framing a discussion about texts held in

received traditions, or being "10,000 years old".

 

With best wishes,

 

Barbara Pijan Lama

bpijanlamajyotisha (AT) msn (DOT) com

 

 

-

Steven Stuckey

valist

Friday, August 12, 2005 1:44 PM

Re: More on Ketu.....

Christopher Kevill wrote:

Dear Steve,

 

Thanks for bringing this fascinating historical question to our attention. It's

not an area I think about often but given the unanswered questions you raise

here, perhaps it's time I should.

 

If it's true that Ketu was a later post-6th century C.E. add-on to the whole

system, then one is forced to think of the Vimshottari system and indeed all of

Jyotish in a somewhat different light. Rather than a complete system in place,

it seems to have been arrived at more gradually, as perhaps Hellenistic or

Western astrology was. And if that's true, then the idea of it being

"received" knowledge seems more unlikely. How did the great astrologers of

Parashara's time then go about the task of plugging Ketu into their

pre-existing system? Hi Chris,The great Parashara Muni was supposed to have

lived a long time ago--thousands of years. He is the father of Vyasadeva, also

known as Veda-Vyas who is accepted as the author of all the Vedas, Puranas,

Mahabharata etc. Some date the oldest of the Vedas, the Rig Veda, as going back

10,000 years or more, to others there is no such thing as time constraints on

the great Vedas, as they are considered an eternal embodiment of the divine.In

light of the above, and some historians dating the Brihat Parashara Hora very

late in time (Professor David Pinagree dates it to the 7th century CE), one can

become very confused when trying to sort things out.Since I am not a sanskrit

scholar, and don't live in India, I'll probably never get an answer--and there

may be no answer anyway. My guess is that even amongst scholars on he subject

there will be many conflicting opinions. It seems we should be able to at least

date the text in some way, since we are not just dealing with an abstract

concept. One might assume there is a long history of oral tradition behind the

Parashara Hora, but at some point it was set down in writing.But I would be

interested in others opinions on this who are more knowledgeable.Best,Steve