SJVC Bangalore 1st Meeting on 28th March.

March 31, 2002

OHM SHRI RAGAVENDRAYA NAMAH

JAYA JAGANNATHA

Namaste Hari,

Good progress on the meeting, keep it up. Gurudeva and Karen have already

clarified the points. Regarding the topics to be discussed: Follow BPHS and

take each chapter and go about it, read each sloka and find the real meaning,

look farther from what is given in the translation. When you read a sloka, ask

yourself a question, why is this sloka given? When you go to various bhava

chapters in BPHS, refer COVA and discuss. First we have to cross the BPHS

ocean.

Thanks

Solai Kannan

Katti Narahari

[katti_narahari (AT) hotmail (DOT) com]30 March 2002 5:08 PMTo:

sjvcCc: npk14 ; jothi; Satyanarayana Reddy; Krishna

Padmasola; ramapriya_d ; rs_madhu ; anmohiey (AT) sancharnet (DOT) in;

vyshakh2002 ; Ramapriya D; Vishwa Krishnamurthy; Ganesh

Vijayan[sjvc] SJVC Bangalore 1st Meeting on 28th March.

om guruave namah

Dear Sanjay Guru,

Pranams from all your Bangalore students.

The following people were able to make it to the 1st SJVC Bangalore meeting.

1. Jyoti

2. Rama Priya

3. Krishna Padmasola

4. Pavan Kumar

5. Hari

Venue : Uma Maheswari Temple KR Road Bangalore.

We did come out with a host of questions. We all await Sanjay guru and other

guru's to show us the light. All the questions and confusions we came across

have are in this colour.

The temple had a hall on the 1st floor. We duly went to the person concerned and

asked for permission. We spent sometime getting to know each others. I had

already met Rama Priya and Jyoti prior to this meeting so this helped to some

extent to locate each other.

We spent some time meditating after which we went over what we were going to

discuss. The agenda for the 1st SJVC Bangalore meeting was to discuss the

concept of Ista Devata and try to identify our respective ista devata's on our

horoscopes.

We started with the discussion about atmakaraka. Rama priya had a query as to

why it;s called chara atmakaraka. For this we discussed the word chara as in

movable or not fixed. Thus the atmakaraka in each horoscope would depend on the

number of degrees gained by a particular planet from Sun to Rahu. The exception

being the degrees gained by Rahu (for determination of his chara karaka) would

be in the reverse.

We then discussed about the concept of Atmakaraka. Atmakaraka (AK) is the one

planet who is a soul of the horoscope. More like a king who guides the native

through all the happiness, strife and tribulations for the native.

The sign AK is placed in navamsa is called the Karakamsa. We discussed why we

need to see the navamsa only and not Rasi or any other varga. We came to the

conclusion that since the determination of Ista is the issue, we need to see

navamsa as it denotes Dharma.

Next was the discussion about the procedure for determining the Ista. We talked

of focusing on the 12th sign from karakamsa. Another question that came up was

why do we need to see 12th from karakamsa. We came up with the answer that 12th

house denotes what dharma we have inherited. 12th house shows with what balance

we came into this world. The 12th from Karakamsa is the fulcrum to determine

the ista. For this we came up with 3 cases that could exist in a horoscope.

1st case

12th from karakamsa is a sign that is empty.

In the case where the 12th from karakamsa has no planets, we take into

consideration Rasi Dristi from planets on this 12th from karakamsa. If there

are no planets giving rasi dristi, then we take the lord of the 12th

house (from karakamsa) to indicate the ista. When we were discussing the lord

of the house, we ran into the issue of co-lords for Sc and Aq.

For determining the co-lords we talked of finding if which lord is with more

planets. If the number of planets associated with both the co-lords, we talked

of checking if any co-lord gets rasi dristi from either Jupiter or

mercury or it's own lord. If this results in a tie, then we chose the stronger

co-lord by the way of thier placement in Dual, fixed and movable signs. The

strength too is in the same order. There was still some confusion with this, so

we request Sanjay guru to clarify this.

IInd case.

12th from Karamasa has one planet.

If the 12th from karakamsa has one planet, then that planet denotes the Ista.

IIIrd Case

12th from karakamsa has more than 1 planet.

In this case the planet which has gained more degrees is the stronger of the

others. If ketu is present then the degrees gained by ketu is counted in

reverse. Krishna had a doubt with this as he recollected that for determining

strength's the count is always zodiacal, i.e. in case of ketu it is not

reverse.This is yet another question we seek clarification for.

More questions.

1. If there are more than one planet in the 12th from karakamsa and among them

one qualifies as the strongest due to the highest degrees attained. Now in such

a situation, what if the other planet is exalted? Don't we have to consider this

planet as strong? how do we solve this confusion?

2. If in the case of many planets in the 12th from karakamasa, the one planet

having more number of degrees if he is combust, retro don't we have to consider

these? Rama priya also came up with the question of avastha's this planet may be

in.

3. What if AK is also the Bhadhaka. This question came from Jyoti.

4. The ohter question was why rasi dristi of Jupiter and mercury is important. I

mentioned about Dhi Shakti but i feel we need to know more.

Below is our attempt to determine the ista for our horoscopes, starting from Pavan Kumar.

Pavan Kumar.

AK = Jupiter.

Karakamsa = Saggitarius

12th from karakamsa is Sc which has Rahu in it.

Rahu denotes Durga as the ista.

Rahu for Pavan in Sc though alone is subjected to Rasi dristi's of Mercury, Moon and Mars.

The question we have is if the rule of one planet in 12th from karakamasa is

present, do we identify the ista as per this planet and stop here or do we have

to take into the Rasi Dristi of other planets too? if yes, then the ista would

be more than one. We talked of the issue that if there is a planet in the 12th

from karakamsa other rules don't apply. But we do need some guidance/help here.

Jyoti

AK = Jupiter (retro)

Jupiter in jyoti;s chart is the 2nd and 11th lord. Jupiter also stands for

guru's, elders and preceptors too.

Karakamsa is Capricorn which has Jupiter (ak) in it. AK is retrograde. We all

talked of retrograde planet indicating a deep desire for re-birth and it also

makes the native to put in more effort to achieve this significations. The

question we came across is, for jyoti jupiter is the 2nd and 11th lord and as

discussed earlier, jupiter also stands for guru's, elders. Now extra effort

jyoti will have to make and the deep desire is in the regard of guru's, elders

or is it in the area of 2nd and 11th lord? Please help

12th from karakamsa is Saggitarius, which has Mars and Ketu. Mars attains

9deg04' and ketu attains 28deg31' Counting reverse ketu get;s to be stronger.

This would denote Ganesh as the Ista. Moon, Rahu and Saturn give rasi drishti

to the 12th from karakamsa.

Rama Priya

AK=Moon

Karakamsa is Aquarius

12th from karakamsa (Capricorn) has no planet in it. It's lord is satrun, and

thus the Ista would be Narayana. The rasi dristi is given by Jupiter and Sun on

the 12th from karakamsa.

Narahari

AK = Venus (Retro)

Karakamsa is Gemini.

12th from karakamsa is taurus which has 3 planets. Mars, Moon and Ketu. Mars

get;s 15deg14', moon gets 3deg28' and ketu get;s 5deg37. Counting ketu in the

reverse makes ketu the strongest. Thus my ista would be Ganesh. But jyoti

pointed out that moon though having less degrees is exalted. This again is the

confusion we have. Do we go with ketu or take into consideration moon because

of his exaltation?

Krishna

AK=Rahu

Karakamsa is Aries

12th from Aries has Sun. Which denotes Shiva.Thus the ista is Shiva

This entire discussion took 2 hours. We all felt this is the best way to learn.

Next meeting venue was not decided on, but the day all felt could be on a

weekend. The other venue's we had in mind is ISKCON or vidyapeet. We hope to

decide next week. never-the-less all of us are looking forward for the next

meeting.

We may have asked a lot of silly questions but we are eager to know the answers,

learn more and continue the discussions.

Thanks for the time in reading this. Sanjay guru, do you have any particular

topic you want us to discuss or do we take up a blind chart?

Please do advice

your humble sishya

Hari.

PS :- Jyoti, Rama, Krishna and Pavan... Please let know if i missed anything. Thanks

March 31, 2002

om guruave namah

Dear Karen,

Going through your mail has given me immense pleasure. And thanks for taking

time out and trying to help us (The Bangalore SJVC students.), this will be a

good series of discussions. More questions from my side are in Blue

you wrote...

KAREN:It is my understanding that Sanjay-ji taught that if the 12th from the

karakamsa is empty then ultimately it is the lord of the sign that indicates

the Ishta. The other planets aspecting by rasi drishti will lead the native to

the Ishta in a winding path but in the end one worships the Deity given by the

lord of the 12th from the karakamsa.

If you refer to the PDF document of ista devata Sarat Chander has answered a

query from Sarajit (page 2 of 6), where by he says if there are no planets in

the 12th from karakamsa then the ista is the rasi dristi of planets on this

house. The lord of the house is to be taken into consideration only when there

are no planets giving rasi dristi. I hope Sanjay guru will throw some light on

this.

You wrote

KAREN:It is my understanding that Ketu degrees are not counted in reverse in

this case but I can't offer why. I await Guruji's answer

Same here. I cant comprehend why ketu should be counted in a regular fashion to

decide it;s strength? For Rahu, we do calculate the degrees attained in the

reverse. Why is this not true to ketu? Again looking towards Sanjay guru!!!!

KAREN:In "Vedic Remedies", Sanjay'ji writes that one is to consider exaltation

and own house status before more advanced degrees if there is more than one

planet in 12th from karakamsa.

I don't have Vedic Remedies with me at present. But referring to the PDF

document, a reply from PVR talks of being creative with respect to the list of

gods. He quotes the example of Shri Ramakrishna Paramahansa's chart, where the

12th from AK in navamsa is unoccupied and aspected by sun and venus. It

resulted in a female Saiva Goddess, Mother Kali. Why wasnt the lord of the 12th

taken in this case? what am i missing? Help! (Though the chart of Ramakrishna

Paramahansa's chart i have has sun in the 12th from karakamsa!!! so only venus

aspects Sagittarius)

Again, this exchange of ideas has helped me greatly. It;s my turn to request you

not to mind my questions and/or counter questions! Too bad i wont be in the US

for Sanjay guru;s workshop, but am looking forward for the Puri workshop in

Dec.

Regards

Hari

-

Karen Skoler

sjvc

Saturday, March 30, 2002 10:31 PM

Re: [sjvc] SJVC Bangalore 1st Meeting on 28th March.

Om Guruve Namah

Dear Hari,

It is so wonderful that you could meet and discuss jyotish in person. I have

never even met another jyotishi in person but am so excited for Sanjayji's New

York visit anticipated in August. [ If anyone reading is in the New York area

please contact me or perhaps a conference chat on messenger for the

students not living near to another student ]

I hope you don't mind if I offer my comments and questions before Guruji can

respond to your questions as this is a topic I would like to understand more

also I remember a few things from his lesson on the Atmakaraka from the

Varahamihira group and also Sanjay-ji book, "Vedic Remedies in Astrology".

Hari wrote:

> Next was the discussion about the procedure for determining the Ista. We

talked of >focusing on the 12th sign from karakamsa. Another question that came

up was why do >we need to see 12th from karakamsa. We came up with the answer

that 12th house >denotes what dharma we have inherited. 12th house shows with

what balance we came >into this world.

KAREN:I wanted to add that the 12th house is also the house of moksha,

liberation from the cycle of rebirth and it is the Ishta Devata's goal who

guides us to emancipation.

HARI:

>1st case

>12th from karakamsa is a sign that is empty. In the case where the 12th from

>karakamsa has no planets, we take into consideration Rasi Dristi from planets

on this >12th from karakamsa. If there are no planets giving rasi

dristi, then we take the lord >of the 12th house (from karakamsa) to indicate

the ista.

KAREN:It is my understanding that Sanjay-ji taught that if the 12th from the

karakamsa is empty then ultimately it is the lord of the sign that indicates

the Ishta. The other planets aspecting by rasi drishti will lead the native to

the Ishta in a winding path but in the end one worships the Deity given by the

lord of the 12th from the karakamsa.

>12th from karakamsa has more than 1 planet.In this case the planet which has

gained >more degrees is the stronger of the others. If Ketu is present then the

degrees gained by >Ketu is counted in reverse. Krishna had a doubt with this as

he recollected that for >determining strength's the count is always zodiacal,

i.e. in case of Ketu it is not >reverse.This is yet another question we seek

clarification for.

KAREN:It is my understanding that Ketu degrees are not counted in reverse in

this case but I can't offer why. I await Guruji's answer

>More questions.1. If there are more than one planet in the 12th from karakamsa

and >among them one qualifies as the strongest due to the highest degrees

attained. Now in >such a situation, what if the other planet is exalted? Don't

we have to consider this planet >as strong? how do we solve this confusion?

KAREN:In "Vedic Remedies", Sanjay'ji writes that one is to consider exaltation

and own house status before more advanced degrees if there is more than one

planet in 12th from karakamsa.

Pavan Kumar.

AK = Jupiter.

Karakamsa = Saggitarius12th from karakamsa is Sc which has Rahu in it.

Rahu denotes Durga as the ista.

Rahu for Pavan in Sc though alone is subjected to Rasi dristi's of Mercury, Moon

and Mars.The question we have is if the rule of one planet in 12th from

karakamasa is present, do we identify the ista as per this planet and stop here

or do we have to take into the Rasi Dristi of other planets too? if yes, then

the ista would be more than one. We talked of the issue that if there is a

planet in the 12th from karakamsa other rules don't apply. But we do need some

guidance/help here

KAREN: It is my understanding ,(again from reading VR) that the while the 12th

from karakamsha gives the ishta, that planet in the rasi can give its form i.e.

roopa , I think is the Sanskrit word. For example, Mercury may give Vishnu in

Navamsa, but if Mercury is conjoined with Sun it will give Vishnu's form as

Sri Ram and if with the Moon will give Vishnu's form as Sri Krishna, but

aspects by rasi drishti are not considered in this.

Jyoti

AK = Jupiter (retro)

Jupiter in jyoti;s chart is the 2nd and 11th lord. Jupiter also stands for

guru's, elders and preceptors too.

Karakamsa is Capricorn which has Jupiter (ak) in it. AK is retrograde. We all

talked of retrograde planet indicating a deep desire for re-birth and it also

makes the native to put in more effort to achieve this significations. The

question we came across is, for jyoti jupiter is the 2nd and 11th lord and as

discussed earlier, jupiter also stands for guru's, elders. Now extra effort

jyoti will have to make and the deep desire is in the regard of guru's, elders

or is it in the area of 2nd and 11th lord? Please help

12th from karakamsa is Saggitarius, which has Mars and Ketu. Mars attains

9deg04' and ketu attains 28deg31' Counting reverse ketu get;s to be stronger.

This would denote Ganesh as the Ista. Moon, Rahu and Saturn give rasi drishti

to the 12th from karakamsa.

KAREN: Ketu is exalted in Sagittarius so I believe that should be considered first anyway.

Narahari

AK = Venus (Retro)

Karakamsa is Gemini.

12th from karakamsa is taurus which has 3 planets. Mars, Moon and Ketu. Mars

get;s 15deg14', moon gets 3deg28' and ketu get;s 5deg37. Counting ketu in the

reverse makes ketu the strongest. Thus my ista would be Ganesh. But jyoti

pointed out that moon though having less degrees is exalted. This again is the

confusion we have. Do we go with ketu or take into consideration moon because

of his exaltation?

KAREN: I take the whole sign as being exalted and would take the Moon as the

Ishta. But look forward to clarification. Hari, again I hope you didn't mind me

jumping in. I just love this topic and wanted to follow along. I hope my

comments were helpful and correct. If not, I hope to be corrected.

Best Wishes,

Karen

April 2, 2002

OM Guruve Namah

Dear Hari,

So glad you didn't mind me jumping in.

If you refer to the PDF document of ista devata Sarat Chander has answered a

query from Sarajit (page 2 of 6), where by he says if there are no planets in

the 12th from karakamsa then the ista is the rasi dristi of planets on this

house. The lord of the house is to be taken into consideration only when there

are no planets giving rasi dristi. I hope Sanjay guru will throw some light on

this.

KAREN: I'm so glad you mentioned that file. I fished it out of my filing

cabinet and reread it and found the answers to some questions I had been asking

myself. Thanks. As to the conflicting ideas. I don't know what to say.

Sanjay-ji did teach us to look at aspecting planets and that is what he wrote

in "Vedic Remedies" but has since taught us to look to the Lord of the 12th

from karakamsa if it is unoccupied. I find it confusing too when I run into

what seems like a contradiction. In my opinion, in this case it really doesn't

matter which Deity you choose those indicated by aspecting planets or the lord.

The more important thing is to worship sincerely. If one's soul has the

inclination to worship the aspecting deity , in time one will be led to one's

Ishta without a doubt. In the end there is only ONE.

HARI: I don't have Vedic Remedies with me at present. But referring to the PDF

document, a reply from PVR talks of being creative with respect to the list of

gods. He quotes the example of Shri Ramakrishna Paramahansa's chart, where the

12th from AK in navamsa is unoccupied and aspected by sun and venus. It

resulted in a female Saiva Goddess, Mother Kali. Why wasnt the lord of the 12th

taken in this case? what am i missing? Help! (Though the chart of Ramakrishna

Paramahansa's chart i have has sun in the 12th from karakamsa!!! so only venus

aspects Sagittarius)

KAREN: I've run into conflicting charts for Shri Ramakrishna so I'm a little

confused myself. If you have Sanjay-ji's Upadesa Sutras, on page 72 he takes

Rahu as the Atmakaraka and in the navamsha and has the Sun in the 12th from it

in Sagittarius indicating Lord Shiva and being in Sagittarius indicates the

world teach form, Sri Dakshineswara as his Ishta devata. Sanjay-ji goes on to

write that because his Bhratrukaraka , showing the undying attachment of the

heart is the Moon, this shows his great Bhakti for the Divine Mother in the

form of Sri Kali Ma of Dakshinswar. IN JUS SAnjay-ji uses the 6:23am time but

later rectified it to 6:44 am in COVa pg 397 based on the Vimsamsha. BV Raman

also uses 6:23am but it is a different chart giving the empty Sagittarius in

the navamsha which sounds like the chart you were referring to. Once achieving

God- Realization by worshipping Ma Kali be went on the worship as a Vaishnava ,

a Christian, and a Moslem. Truly a great Saint of God that saw God in all

paths. But like you quoted, there is room for variations like Jupiter

representing Sambashiva or Narayana or Guru or Mars representing male dieties

like Kartikeya or Hanuman or female deities like Kali or Chamundi.

Hari, again good luck with your Bangalore group and thanks for the great

discussion. You can probably tell by my writing Sri Ramakrishna and Ma Kali

are very dear to my heart.

Best Wishes,

Karen

April 4, 2002

Om gurave namah,

Dear Gurudev,

Thanks so for clarifying the topic about the Ishta devata. That was my

understanding also from your previous posts but others had doubts. I will work

hard to learn the basics and look forward to another lesson very soon.

your sishya,

Karen

om gurave namah------------------------Dear Karen,

The aspect or Drishti really means 'THOSE WHO KNOW' and those who know alone can

tell us. Thus Ista Devata is from the Lord and not from aspecting planets.

Aspecting planets lead us to the lord. What Sarat was trying to explain was

that it does not matter. Choose any one of the deities and let the person start

meditation and reciting the name. Sooner or later he will arrive at the door of

the Ista Devata. People waste too much time in all sorts of calculations

instead of realising that the various planets are only means to know the

ultimate truth. thus Ista is from strongest planet in the 12th and if not, take

the lord. Aspects matter but I don't want you all to get confused with

beneficial and baneful aspects and get lost in the calculaitons of what is good

and what is not good aspect. That is why I skipped the aspect rule and came

straight to the point. Aspect can complicate as I have realised and people

cannot understand these issues of qualitative nature of aspects. Learn the

basics here and later we will go into great depth. Someday you all will be in a

better position to understand Sarat's mail.

In fact in one class at SJVC, delhi I explained the various paths that the

native takes based on the Lagnamsa to the planets aspecting the 12th from

Karakamsa to the 12th house from Karakamsa..this is a process. No further

questions now. Just learn the basics first.

With best wishesSanjay RathWeb: http://sanjayrath.tripod.comServices:

http://sanjayrath.tripod.com/zservices.htmJyotish Digest:

http://jyotishdigest.com/SJVC: http://www.sjvc.org/

-

Karen Skoler

sjvc

Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:50 AM