Guest guest Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 Om Gurave Namah Hare Rama Krishna Pujya Gurudev, In your earlier mail, you had said SR: That is why the reversal of house reckoning from Arudha Lagna is meaningless if Ketu is there. What is to be seen, and for the limited purpose of spirituality is the reversal of house reckoning from Ketu for determining Argala or those planets who shall help the native in losing his apparant head and getting a head full of knowledge or those planets who shall obstruct this process. Sriram: During the meeting of the SJC East coast group(message #4158), we did not apply the Vipareetam Ketoh principle from the AL and rather we applied it only when Ketu was in Lagna. But, whereas your advice later to Ms.Nisha was for applying the VK principle to determine Argala, we had used it to reckon houses and their lordships and found it working in some cases. Can you kindly read through the minutes and advise us as to whether we are over-extending the rules or missing some other details when we could correlate events based on the reverse house reckoning ? Your sishya K.N.sriram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2002 Report Share Posted October 24, 2002 Om Guruvae Namaha! Dear Sanjaiji, Namastae! Here is my attempt to answer your question. Regarding the reconing form AL if Ketu is in AL , Ketu does not understand the real truth , it follows what is apparent. Since AL shows what is apparent Ketu will not cause reversal for matters relating to AL. But then once ketu learns the truth, it becomes Ganesha. If at this time, AL is not close to what is real there is again a reversal . This probably can cause the destruction of AL . However if AL is close to real , there will be no destruction of AL . When i say AL is close to real , i mean that the image of the native and what he really is are nearly one and the same. This is only my limited understanding. regards, Shriram , "Sanjay Rath" <srath@s...> wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > Dear Sriram, > > This is something I have been personally struggling with. > Long time back I was told that it is impossible for a doctor to give himself medicine, so no matter how good he maybe, he has to go to the neighbour doctor. This is my situation. I too have Ketu in Arudha, and when I thought I had understood, I 'FORGOT' to ask questions, and that is why I was or rather am in a dilemma. > > Look at the situation. Now, Ketu in the AL is bound to influence the AL as a GRAHA and has to show its stamp. That is why there is the dictum that Rahu in 7th/12th from AL will make the native very spiritual. > > My questions: i.e. questions which I forgot to ask/did not understand or it was too late to ask.. > > 1. Will this spirituality be real or apparant? i.e. in the sence that it is the apparant truth and not the real truth. What is spirituality in this world of illusion? Will we ever get to know the real truth so long as we stay in this body, which again is untruth? > > 2. Situation A: The native becomes spiritual and learns as a process of the natural experiences in the birth chart, then, after he becomes spiritual will the argala of Ketu in the reverse affect the AL? This is based on certain readings like if Saturn is in the ninth house, the native suffers very much, but after he takes diksha or mantra and joins any religious order, he becomes fortunate and lucky. Thus we find that the same Saturn which caused ill luck in the ninth house has left him alone after he took mantra and joined a religious order like membership and the blessings of the Karaka - the Sun came on the 9th house. So, even if the effect of spirituality is not felt from birth, after its effect begins, will the argala start working on the arudha. > > 3. Situation B: The argala works on the Arudha due to the impact of Ketu (bear in mind that the reckoning of argala from Ketu is for the purpose of Moksha karakatwa).. Now, if this happens, will the native be dragged towards spirituality and will the presence of Ketu in AL automatically destroy the AL? If that is so, then the Ketu in AL should be considered a punishment as this would be painful and a bad thing. In the converse, would Rahu in AL be considered good? This is definitely not true as Rahu in AL damages the reputation of the person. > > You see the dilemma. Now, this is not meant for this list as this is for beginners. This is for advanced students to resolve, but since you have asked, you can try. I do have some answers. The point about Jyotish is that there are rules, but should be applied very intelligently. > > Solution: You will find it working after the native joins a religious order or gets the Gayatri or some such mantra. Why? > Please attempt and after consideration with all your group, mail me the considered views. > > Best Regards, > Sanjay Rath > > 71 Vasant Apartments, Mayur Vihar Ph-1, New Delhi 110091, India > Tel: +91-11-2713201 Web: http://srath.com http://.org > > > Sriram.N.Kizhakkemadam [snk110] > Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:59 PM > > [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh > > > Om Gurave Namah > Hare Rama Krishna > > Pujya Gurudev, > In your earlier mail, you had said > > SR: That is why the reversal of house reckoning from Arudha Lagna is > meaningless if Ketu is there. What is to be seen, and for the limited > purpose of spirituality is the reversal of house reckoning from Ketu > for determining Argala or those planets who shall help the native in > losing his apparant head and getting a head full of knowledge or > those planets who shall obstruct this process. > > Sriram: During the meeting of the SJC East coast group(message > #4158), we did not apply the Vipareetam Ketoh principle from the AL > and rather we applied it only when Ketu was in Lagna. But, whereas > your advice later to Ms.Nisha was for applying the VK principle to > determine Argala, we had used it to reckon houses and their > lordships and found it working in some cases. Can you kindly read > through the minutes and advise us as to whether we are over- extending > the rules or missing some other details when we could correlate > events based on the reverse house reckoning ? > > Your sishya > K.N.sriram > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah] > Send a blank mail > To : - > To : - > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2002 Report Share Posted October 24, 2002 Dear Visti, Can you please elaborate it further? You wrote: never worship the Shiv-Shakti indicated by yout Arudha lagna, or you will loose your image, and hence also the body. Is it the diety indicated by the AL lord? If it coincides with Ista devata or Palana devata...then? Or i am missing something here? Regards, jk - Visti Larsen Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:25 PM [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh Vyam Vyaasadevaaya Namah Dear Shriram, Comments to your answers. Regarding the reconing form AL if Ketu is in AL , Ketu does not understand the real truth , it follows what is apparent. Since AL shows what is apparent Ketu will not cause reversal for matters relating to AL. But then once ketu learns the truth, it becomes Ganesha. If at this time, AL is not close to what is real there is again a reversal . This probably can cause the destruction of AL . However if AL is close to real, there will be no destruction of AL . When i say AL is close to real , i mean that the image of the native and what he really is are nearly one and the same. Visti: The AL is ONLY close to the real truth at death! This is why we time the hours of death when the Transit Lagna is joined the Natal-AL. Hence for the same reasons never worship the Shiv-Shakti indicated by yout Arudha lagna, or you will loose your image, and hence also the body. Best wishesVisti---Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgBrihat Parasara Hora Shastra: vedic astrologybphs.zipiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/Itranslt.html - Shriram Srinivasan Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:12 AM [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh Om Guruvae Namaha!Dear Sanjaiji,Namastae! Here is my attempt to answer your question. Regarding the reconing form AL if Ketu is in AL , Ketu does not understand the real truth , it follows what is apparent. Since AL shows what is apparent Ketu will not cause reversal for matters relating to AL.But then once ketu learns the truth, it becomes Ganesha. If at this time, AL is not close to what is real there is again a reversal . This probably can cause the destruction of AL . However if AL is close to real , there will be no destruction of AL . When i say AL is close to real , i mean that the image of the native and what he really is are nearly one and the same. This is only my limited understanding. regards,Shriram, "Sanjay Rath" <srath@s...> wrote:> > > Om Gurave Namah> Dear Sriram,> > This is something I have been personally struggling with.> Long time back I was told that it is impossible for a doctor to give himself medicine, so no matter how good he maybe, he has to go to the neighbour doctor. This is my situation. I too have Ketu in Arudha, and when I thought I had understood, I 'FORGOT' to ask questions, and that is why I was or rather am in a dilemma.> > Look at the situation. Now, Ketu in the AL is bound to influence the AL as a GRAHA and has to show its stamp. That is why there is the dictum that Rahu in 7th/12th from AL will make the native very spiritual. > > My questions: i.e. questions which I forgot to ask/did not understand or it was too late to ask..> > 1. Will this spirituality be real or apparant? i.e. in the sence that it is the apparant truth and not the real truth. What is spirituality in this world of illusion? Will we ever get to know the real truth so long as we stay in this body, which again is untruth?> > 2. Situation A: The native becomes spiritual and learns as a process of the natural experiences in the birth chart, then, after he becomes spiritual will the argala of Ketu in the reverse affect the AL? This is based on certain readings like if Saturn is in the ninth house, the native suffers very much, but after he takes diksha or mantra and joins any religious order, he becomes fortunate and lucky. Thus we find that the same Saturn which caused ill luck in the ninth house has left him alone after he took mantra and joined a religious order like membership and the blessings of the Karaka - the Sun came on the 9th house. So, even if the effect of spirituality is not felt from birth, after its effect begins, will the argala start working on the arudha.> > 3. Situation B: The argala works on the Arudha due to the impact of Ketu (bear in mind that the reckoning of argala from Ketu is for the purpose of Moksha karakatwa).. Now, if this happens, will the native be dragged towards spirituality and will the presence of Ketu in AL automatically destroy the AL? If that is so, then the Ketu in AL should be considered a punishment as this would be painful and a bad thing. In the converse, would Rahu in AL be considered good? This is definitely not true as Rahu in AL damages the reputation of the person.> > You see the dilemma. Now, this is not meant for this list as this is for beginners. This is for advanced students to resolve, but since you have asked, you can try. I do have some answers. The point about Jyotish is that there are rules, but should be applied very intelligently.> > Solution: You will find it working after the native joins a religious order or gets the Gayatri or some such mantra. Why? > Please attempt and after consideration with all your group, mail me the considered views.> > Best Regards,> Sanjay Rath> > 71 Vasant Apartments, Mayur Vihar Ph-1, New Delhi 110091, India> Tel: +91-11-2713201 Web: http://srath.com http://.org > > > Sriram.N.Kizhakkemadam [snk110]> Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:59 PM> To: > [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh> > > Om Gurave Namah> Hare Rama Krishna> > Pujya Gurudev,> In your earlier mail, you had said> > SR: That is why the reversal of house reckoning from Arudha Lagna is > meaningless if Ketu is there. What is to be seen, and for the limited > purpose of spirituality is the reversal of house reckoning from Ketu > for determining Argala or those planets who shall help the native in > losing his apparant head and getting a head full of knowledge or > those planets who shall obstruct this process.> > Sriram: During the meeting of the SJC East coast group(message > #4158), we did not apply the Vipareetam Ketoh principle from the AL > and rather we applied it only when Ketu was in Lagna. But, whereas > your advice later to Ms.Nisha was for applying the VK principle to > determine Argala, we had used it to reckon houses and their > lordships and found it working in some cases. Can you kindly read > through the minutes and advise us as to whether we are over-extending > the rules or missing some other details when we could correlate > events based on the reverse house reckoning ?> > Your sishya> K.N.sriram> > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]> Send a blank mail> To : -> To : - > > [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]Send a blank mailTo : -To : Your use of is subject to the [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah]Send a blank mailTo : -To : Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2002 Report Share Posted October 24, 2002 Om Namo Bhagawate Vaasudevaya Namah! Dear Gurudeva, Namaste. Thank you very much for answering our questions on "Vipareetham Ketoh". my understaning and questions are below. please bear with my confusion and resulting doubts. >, "Sanjay Rath" wrote: > In the case of Narayana dasa where the ninth sign from the arambha >rasi shall determine the direction os subsequent dasa, the presence >of Ketu or Saturn can alter the direction as 'Forced reverse or >forced direct' respectively. The ability of the Graha to do so is >because of the relationship between the graha and the Satya peetha. >The Grahas at their purest form are the incarnations of Vishnu and >hence, their relationship with the signs and 'satya' gives them the >ability to bring about this alteration - it is their power as the >representation of the Vishnu avatar. To understand this, we must >realise that every man is created in the mould of Visnhu and every >woman is created in the mould of Lakshmi and hence in stri Jataka >great emphasis is laid on examining the charts and planetary results >from the 7th house. It is this satya that gives the graha the ability >to alter the direction as it alters the nature of the mould by its >presence in the houses of satya & dharma. Suresh: Ketu's connection to Satya (Lagna) and/or Dharma (9th house), causes vepareetham. Is this because Ketu in lagna will cause Virodhargala on 9th (reverse 5th). And is this also the reason why NarayanaDasas are reckoned in reverse for such a situation?. But if Jupiter is present with such a Ketu (Meaning, if Ketu learns what is "Truth" and what is "apparent Truth"), can we say that "Ketu" would still cause vipareetham, but *knows* or is aware of the real Truth? (I have this doubt, because there is no rider to negate "Vipareetham Ketoh" for NarayanaDasa reckoning, if Jupiter is conjunct Ketu). > > > It is >only through the process of education (Guru kripa) that Ketu realises >that the truth is something else. This is the knowledge that Vishnu >blessed Ganapati with when He gave Ganesha the head of the elephant. >This is the knowledge of astronomy and the movement of the stars. >Thus, realising the difference between the apparant truth and the >real truth, Ketu became Ganesha (Gaja Mukha or with the head of an >elephant and body of a human being) the patron deity of Jyotish as >Vishnu became Ganesha's blessing or the Guru who teaches Jyotish. >Similarly realising the other truths, Ketu becomes the four Veda >Murti (Go Mukha or Kamadhenu - Rig Veda, Haya mukha or Hayagreeva - >Yaur Veda, Aja mukha or Ajaikapada -sama veda and Markata mukha or >Hanuman - Atharva veda). Thus Ketu has a dual role in any chart >causing marriages for the sake of increase and growth of >family 'kulasya unnatim' as well as the 'mokshakaraka'. The >difference again is between the apparant truth of good karma in the >form of marriage and children which shall cause happiness to the >elders and Pitris or the real truth of good karma in the form of >renunciation of desires and bhakti which will cause happiness to the >Guru and Bhagavan. Point is both are the truths - one apparant and >the other real. Suresh: When does Ketu signify/confer results pertaining to it's "Kulasya Unnathim" role and when of "Mokshakaraka" role?. Can Ketu's position, aspects (rasi), argalas reckoned from AL show "Kulasya Unnathim" role of Ketu and those from Lagna that of "Mokshakaraka".? > Ask yourself: are you headless or have the head of at >least one of the veda murti or Ganesha? If you want a head, then >prostrate at the feet of Lord Shiva, for He alone as the real Guru >can cut off your head (ahamkar) and worship Bhagavan Vishnu for He >alone as the real giver can give you a head. Suresh: Gurudeva, Please enlighten us on how to find if one has head or not? Should this question be considered only if Ketu is in Lagna? Would the most influential planet on ketu (thru conjunction/aspect/argala) indicate the Mukha the native may have?. Suresh: Can we equate Jupiter=GajaMukha, Venus=GoMukha, Mercury=HayaMukha, Saturn=AjaikaMukha and Mars=MarkatakaMukha?. Also could you pelase throw some light on the signficance of these different Mukhas? > >Now, coming to Arudha, this is the Maya Peetha ot the Lagna >representing the apparant truth. Naturally Ketu cannot have any >impact out here. The reversal of the apparant truth cannot occur as >this will lead to the very negation of all that is meant or implied >by the Arudha. That is why the reversal of house reckoning from >Arudha Lagna is meaningless if Ketu is there. What is to be seen, and >for the limited purpose of spirituality is the reversal of house >reckoning from Ketu for determining Argala or those planets who shall >help the native in losing his apparant head and getting a head full >of knowledge or those planets who shall obstruct this process. Suresh: Two things become very clear. That Ketu does not cause reversal if placed in AL, for AL is reversal (or apparentTruth) of Satya in itself and another reversal would mean, back to the original (Is this also one of the reasons why Aruda cannot fall in 1?). And Argalas on Ketu and from Ketu are to be reckoned in reverse order Suresh: But Guruji, answer to our original question "If Ketu is in Lagna (Satya) can we reckon houses in reverse order?" still eludes me. As Ketu knows and follows only ApparentTruth (Sun's motion from 1st house to 7th house thru 10th house), and connected to Satya (Placed in Lagna), "can he *change* 2nd house to 12th house in a chart, for eg"? Or all he can do is "Cause argala on 2nd house, *assuming* (lack of knowledge?) it is 12th house"?. Suresh: Is the reason for your saying in Ukiah, "6th moon behaved like Ashtama Moon" for a Ketu asc native, because Ketu's virodhargala on 6th (reverse 8th)?. Does it mean, during ketu periods, the planets that receive virodhargala from Ketu may/can indicate role reversals. i respectfully wait for your answers and clarifications. Please forgive me, if my questions/confusions sound silly. > >Best Regards, >Sanjay Rath Pranaam, -Suresh. Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! Click Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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