RE: [SJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh

October 23, 2002

Respected Sanjay Rathji,

I know that I am a beginner and your poser is for those much advanced.However I

am daring to write this as there are a lot of confusing references to Ketu

relating to Moksha, spirituality etc. in the texts.

My understanding is that Ketu in certain positions viz. alone in 12th leads one

to Moksha.This is preordained.Moksha being attained on the bassis of Purva

Punya and current Life karma , though the actions may be right and in

conformity with spiritual thinking, it doesnot neccessarily give an

understanding of things spirituals per se.

Further it is said "Kujavat Ketu". Therefore it follows that Ketu alone would

act like Mars.Now Mars is associated with Dambha and not sprituality.Ketu

probably gives rise to moksha as in the designated position being alone he is

not likely to adjust well with opposite sex and could some time become

celibate, thus fulfiling the spiritual requirement for complete emancipation in

a way.

On the other hand I think when we talk about really understanding the

sprituality then Saturn the deep thinker and Jupiter the Religious planet have

to have good Sambandha.In horoscopes of Great religious personality the

Saturn-Jupiter connection would invariably be seen.

Please pardon me if you feel that I have entered the discussions without

properly understanding the subject.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

-

Sanjay Rath

Wednesday, October 23, 2002 3:00 PM

RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Sriram,

This is something I have been personally struggling with.

Long time back I was told that it is impossible for a doctor to give himself

medicine, so no matter how good he maybe, he has to go to the neighbour doctor.

This is my situation. I too have Ketu in Arudha, and when I thought I had

understood, I 'FORGOT' to ask questions, and that is why I was or rather am in

a dilemma.

Look at the situation. Now, Ketu in the AL is bound to influence the AL as a

GRAHA and has to show its stamp. That is why there is the dictum that Rahu in

7th/12th from AL will make the native very spiritual.

My questions: i.e. questions which I forgot to ask/did not understand or it was too late to ask..

1. Will this spirituality be real or apparant? i.e. in the sence that it is the

apparant truth and not the real truth. What is spirituality in this world of

illusion? Will we ever get to know the real truth so long as we stay in this

body, which again is untruth?

2. Situation A: The native becomes spiritual and learns as a process of the

natural experiences in the birth chart, then, after he becomes spiritual will

the argala of Ketu in the reverse affect the AL? This is based on certain

readings like if Saturn is in the ninth house, the native suffers very much,

but after he takes diksha or mantra and joins any religious order, he becomes

fortunate and lucky. Thus we find that the same Saturn which caused ill luck in

the ninth house has left him alone after he took mantra and joined a religious

order like membership and the blessings of the Karaka - the Sun came on the 9th

house. So, even if the effect of spirituality is not felt from birth, after its

effect begins, will the argala start working on the arudha.

3. Situation B: The argala works on the Arudha due to the impact of Ketu (bear

in mind that the reckoning of argala from Ketu is for the purpose of Moksha

karakatwa).. Now, if this happens, will the native be dragged towards

spirituality and will the presence of Ketu in AL automatically destroy the AL?

If that is so, then the Ketu in AL should be considered a punishment as this

would be painful and a bad thing. In the converse, would Rahu in AL be

considered good? This is definitely not true as Rahu in AL damages the

reputation of the person.

You see the dilemma. Now, this is not meant for this list as this is for

beginners. This is for advanced students to resolve, but since you have asked,

you can try. I do have some answers. The point about Jyotish is that there are

rules, but should be applied very intelligently.

Solution: You will find it working after the native joins a religious order or

gets the Gayatri or some such mantra. Why?

Please attempt and after consideration with all your group, mail me the considered views.

Best Regards,

Sanjay Rath

71 Vasant Apartments, Mayur Vihar Ph-1, New Delhi 110091, India

Tel: +91-11-2713201 Web: http://srath.com http://.org

Sriram.N.Kizhakkemadam

[snk110 (AT) (DOT) co.uk]Tuesday, October 22, 2002 6:59 PMTo:

Subject: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on

Vipareetam KetohOm Gurave NamahHare Rama KrishnaPujya Gurudev, In your

earlier mail, you had saidSR: That is why the reversal of house reckoning from

Arudha Lagna is meaningless if Ketu is there. What is to be seen, and for the

limited purpose of spirituality is the reversal of house reckoning from Ketu

for determining Argala or those planets who shall help the native in losing his

apparant head and getting a head full of knowledge or those planets who shall

obstruct this process.Sriram: During the meeting of the SJC East coast

group(message #4158), we did not apply the Vipareetam Ketoh principle from the

AL and rather we applied it only when Ketu was in Lagna. But, whereas your

advice later to Ms.Nisha was for applying the VK principle to determine Argala,

we had used it to reckon houses and their lordships and found it working in

some cases. Can you kindly read through the minutes and advise us as to whether

we are over-extending the rules or missing some other details when we could

correlate events based on the reverse house reckoning ?Your sishyaK.N.sriram[Om

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October 24, 2002

Your lesson on ketu brings tears to my eyes as it really beautiful. You had said

that jupiter with ketu can mean a high desire for knowledge and especially good

for jyotish.My queriesa) Is it venus that gives the wealth or jupiter. Because

a nadi expert told me that my saturn is retro and is moving away from

venus-money and moving towards the combination of jupiter and ketu who are in

aries. And he further said that when jupiter enters pisces the feeling for

knowledge and feeling against money would descend. So i have a doubt as to who

gives wealth -and if jupiter gives wealth then what does lakshmi give(venus).b)

Jupiter -ketu conjunction has already been discussed,but i have a doubt. Will

the jupiter retrogression make him closer to ketu if say he is not tightly

conjunct with ketu. Because there are so many born in a year with jup-ketu

conjunction. I am talking about those who have jupiter quite far from ketu but

jupiter is retrograde.regardspartha

[Rath:] Kujavat Ketu is the intrinsic nature of Ketu like Infra-red color of

ketu is higher than that of mars or the ultraviolet of rahu is deeper than the

violet of saturn. But mars is of a different temperament. Just compare the

Defence forces (Ketu) with the Police (Mars)..just the fighter level and not

the thinkers level and you will appreciate the point. Ketu causes 'soonya' or

annuls everything it joins - with Venus the native maintains celibacy and

becomes a tapaswi, with Jupiter the native renounces wealth and desires the

highest knowledge..in this way Ketu is strange and unpredictable, working in

the most secret ways and very sudden. I agree with the point you make about

brahmacharya..

Rath:] Saturn & Jupiter have more to do with the learning and knowledge, Brahma

yoga indeed. Here the deepest knowledge (Jupiter) of the tradition of

spirituality (Saturn) is handed down ..example Srila Prabhupada Sat & Jup in

5th house in Navamsa, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu -Sat in 5 & Jup in Lagna in

navamsa. But Ketu is a different cup of tea..it is the Jyotish..thus Jup & Ketu

give the deepest knowledge of Jyotish. Then we can conclude that Jytish vidya

does lead towards spirituality as it is ruled by Mahavishnu (Jup) & Ganesha

(Ketu).

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October 25, 2002

Vyam Vyaasadevaaya Namah

Dear Partha,

Sukra is Vahana Karaka, and shows the luxuries that follow the Dhana Karaka; Jupiter.

Now try to answer this question instead; why did Indra loose the kingdom of

heaven to Prahlada Maharaja?

Best wishesVisti---Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgBrihat

Parasara Hora Shastra:

vedic astrologybphs.zipiTRANS 99 Font:

http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/Itranslt.html

-

partha sarathy

Cc: srath (AT) softhome (DOT) net

Friday, October 25, 2002 5:57 AM

RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh

OM NAMH SHIVAYADear Sanjayji Your lesson on ketu brings tears to my eyes as it

really beautiful. You had said that jupiter with ketu can mean a high desire

for knowledge and especially good for jyotish.My queriesa) Is it venus that

gives the wealth or jupiter. Because a nadi expert told me that my saturn is

retro and is moving away from venus-money and moving towards the combination of

jupiter and ketu who are in aries. And he further said that when jupiter enters

pisces the feeling for knowledge and feeling against money would descend. So i

have a doubt as to who gives wealth -and if jupiter gives wealth then what does

lakshmi give(venus).b) Jupiter -ketu conjunction has already been discussed,but

i have a doubt. Will the jupiter retrogression make him closer to ketu if say

he is not tightly conjunct with ketu. Because there are so many born in a year

with jup-ketu conjunction. I am talking about those who have jupiter quite far

from ketu but jupiter is retrograde.regardspartha [Rath:] Kujavat Ketu is the

intrinsic nature of Ketu like Infra-red color of ketu is higher than that of

mars or the ultraviolet of rahu is deeper than the violet of saturn. But mars

is of a different temperament. Just compare the Defence forces (Ketu) with the

Police (Mars)..just the fighter level and not the thinkers level and you will

appreciate the point. Ketu causes 'soonya' or annuls everything it joins - with

Venus the native maintains celibacy and becomes a tapaswi, with Jupiter the

native renounces wealth and desires the highest knowledge..in this way Ketu is

strange and unpredictable, working in the most secret ways and very sudden. I

agree with the point you make about brahmacharya..

Rath:] Saturn & Jupiter have more to do with the learning and knowledge, Brahma

yoga indeed. Here the deepest knowledge (Jupiter) of the tradition of

spirituality (Saturn) is handed down ..example Srila Prabhupada Sat & Jup in

5th house in Navamsa, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu -Sat in 5 & Jup in Lagna in

navamsa. But Ketu is a different cup of tea..it is the Jyotish..thus Jup & Ketu

give the deepest knowledge of Jyotish. Then we can conclude that Jytish vidya

does lead towards spirituality as it is ruled by Mahavishnu (Jup) & Ganesha

(Ketu).

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October 26, 2002

Respected Sanjay Guruji and learned members,

Well, I know that I am nowhere to answer your so advanced questions but I feel

there are a few confusions for my say and I must pour them out of myself.

As a rule, ketu in AL makes a person spritual while rahu tarnishes image. How

come two parts of the same body can behave in extreme? One leads to bhoga marg

and other to moksha marg? To my limited knowledge its bcoz ketu simply does

what it feels by heart, what he has been asked or assigned to. He does not have

eyes or mind to analyse, to see, to allegate, to confront, or to use brains

(only the mind and senses drives away the atman from the supreme). In the

purest form, ketu always try to get the soul into the supreme, the only truth,

bcoz its headless and hence no ahamkaar and no crown. That’s like a magnetic

affect. But sometimes, this magnetic field effect gets weak or impurities

adhere. In that case, ketu devoid of any drishti, start getting guided by those

impactful planets. Now the need is to pick up the most benefic influential

planet which can guide ketu to its normal course. Very rare might be those

horoscopes which have purest ketu becoz that spiritual person shall never be

part of this illusionary world in any sense. Normally, ketu requires the

guiding stick in the form of the planet which can drive him to the ultimate

destination whatever be the path chosen by that planet, may be by being

gomukha, hayamukha etc. or ganesha himself. And once he knows his destination

and he gets stick to lead him there, there could never be any reversals or

illusions. That strong magnetic field rules out any other effect. Of course,

for a person landed on this earth to be part of maaya, this can be very bad but

for a true saint this is indeed the ever desired. Ketu in AL is not capable of

reversing the effects as it is bound to be guided by the planets influencing

AL.

Well, this all is limited to my thoughts n confusions and shall always prostrate

for forgiveness in case anything is not worth.

Regards,

Nisha

P.S.: To Sureshji..... forgive me for pointing out the learned member.... but

once i too used to write the wrong mantra as u did below until sanjay guruji

pointed me out that reciting wrong mantra is the worst enemy.

Sureshbabu Chandra <suchandr (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Om Namo Bhagawate Vaasudevaya Namah!

Dear Gurudeva,

Namaste. Thank you very much for answering our questions on "Vipareetham

Ketoh". my understaning and questions are below. please bear with my confusion

and resulting doubts.

>, "Sanjay Rath" wrote:

> In the case of Narayana dasa where the ninth sign from the arambha >rasi shall

determine the direction os subsequent dasa, the presence >of Ketu or Saturn can

alter the direction as 'Forced reverse or >forced direct' respectively. The

ability of the Graha to do so is >because of the relationship between the graha

and the Satya peetha. >The Grahas at their purest form are the incarnations of

Vishnu and >hence, their relationship with the signs and 'satya' gives them the

>ability to bring about this alteration - it is their power as the

>representation of the Vishnu avatar. To understand this, we must >realise that

every man is created in the mould of Visnhu and every >woman is created in the

mould of Lakshmi and hence in stri Jataka >great emphasis is laid on examining

the charts and planetary results >from the 7th house. It is this satya that

gives the graha the ability >to alter the direction as it alters the nature of

the mould by its

>presence in the houses of satya & dharma.

Suresh: Ketu's connection to Satya (Lagna) and/or Dharma (9th house), causes

vepareetham. Is this because Ketu in lagna will cause Virodhargala on 9th

(reverse 5th). And is this also the reason why NarayanaDasas are reckoned in

reverse for such a situation?. But if Jupiter is present with such a Ketu

(Meaning, if Ketu learns what is "Truth" and what is "apparent Truth"), can we

say that "Ketu" would still cause vipareetham, but *knows* or is aware of the

real Truth? (I have this doubt, because there is no rider to negate

"Vipareetham Ketoh" for NarayanaDasa reckoning, if Jupiter is conjunct Ketu).

> > > It is >only through the process of education (Guru kripa) that Ketu

realises >that the truth is something else. This is the knowledge that Vishnu

>blessed Ganapati with when He gave Ganesha the head of the elephant. >This is

the knowledge of astronomy and the movement of the stars. >Thus, realising the

difference between the apparant truth and the >real truth, Ketu became Ganesha

(Gaja Mukha or with the head of an >elephant and body of a human being) the

patron deity of Jyotish as >Vishnu became Ganesha's blessing or the Guru who

teaches Jyotish. >Similarly realising the other truths, Ketu becomes the four

Veda >Murti (Go Mukha or Kamadhenu - Rig Veda, Haya mukha or Hayagreeva - >Yaur

Veda, Aja mukha or Ajaikapada -sama veda and Markata mukha or >Hanuman - Atharva

veda). Thus Ketu has a dual role in any chart >causing marriages for the sake of

increase and growth of >family 'kulasya unnatim' as well as the 'mokshakaraka'.

The >difference again is between the apparant truth of good karma in the >form

of marriage and children which shall cause happiness to the >elders and Pitris

or the real truth of good karma in the form of >renunciation of desires and

bhakti which will cause happiness to the >Guru and Bhagavan. Point is both are

the truths - one apparant and

>the other real.

Suresh: When does Ketu signify/confer results pertaining to it's "Kulasya

Unnathim" role and when of "Mokshakaraka" role?. Can Ketu's position, aspects

(rasi), argalas reckoned from AL show "Kulasya Unnathim" role of Ketu and those

from Lagna that of "Mokshakaraka".?

> Ask yourself: are you headless or have the head of at

>least one of the veda murti or Ganesha? If you want a head, then >prostrate at

the feet of Lord Shiva, for He alone as the real Guru >can cut off your head

(ahamkar) and worship Bhagavan Vishnu for He

>alone as the real giver can give you a head.

Suresh: Gurudeva, Please enlighten us on how to find if one has head or not?

Should this question be considered only if Ketu is in Lagna? Would the most

influential planet on ketu (thru conjunction/aspect/argala) indicate the Mukha

the native may have?.

Suresh: Can we equate Jupiter=GajaMukha, Venus=GoMukha, Mercury=HayaMukha,

Saturn=AjaikaMukha and Mars=MarkatakaMukha?. Also could you pelase throw some

light on the signficance of these different Mukhas?

> >Now, coming to Arudha, this is the Maya Peetha ot the Lagna >representing the

apparant truth. Naturally Ketu cannot have any >impact out here. The reversal of

the apparant truth cannot occur as >this will lead to the very negation of all

that is meant or implied >by the Arudha. That is why the reversal of house

reckoning from >Arudha Lagna is meaningless if Ketu is there. What is to be

seen, and >for the limited purpose of spirituality is the reversal of house

>reckoning from Ketu for determining Argala or those planets who shall >help

the native in losing his apparant head and getting a head full

>of knowledge or those planets who shall obstruct this process.

Suresh: Two things become very clear. That Ketu does not cause reversal if

placed in AL, for AL is reversal (or apparentTruth) of Satya in itself and

another reversal would mean, back to the original (Is this also one of the

reasons why Aruda cannot fall in 1?). And Argalas on Ketu and from Ketu are to

be reckoned in reverse order

Suresh: But Guruji, answer to our original question "If Ketu is in Lagna

(Satya) can we reckon houses in reverse order?" still eludes me. As Ketu knows

and follows only ApparentTruth (Sun's motion from 1st house to 7th house thru

10th house), and connected to Satya (Placed in Lagna), "can he *change* 2nd

house to 12th house in a chart, for eg"? Or all he can do is "Cause argala on

2nd house, *assuming* (lack of knowledge?) it is 12th house"?.

Suresh: Is the reason for your saying in Ukiah, "6th moon behaved like Ashtama

Moon" for a Ketu asc native, because Ketu's virodhargala on 6th (reverse 8th)?.

Does it mean, during ketu periods, the planets that receive virodhargala from

Ketu may/can indicate role reversals.

i respectfully wait for your answers and clarifications. Please forgive me, if

my questions/confusions sound silly.

> >Best Regards,

>Sanjay Rath

Pranaam,

-Suresh.

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October 27, 2002

You are very kind.I shall try to participate in the debates , now that you have permitted me.

It is said that nothing should be hidden from the Guru even if

unintentionally.Sir when I said that I am a beginner I meant inthe sense who

has not even been able to have even a glimpseof the Vast knowledge hidden in

the Texts of Astrology.

I started my astrological studies when I used to write horoscopes of Jataka's

for my Father's record.I was about 10years of age then(1956).Now I am about 57

year old((1946 born).I have been able to understand only a part of what is told

by our Ancient seers.I still have not much understanding of Jamini Sutras and

Ashtakvarga and the Ganit part of Jyotish.

In that sense I said and meant that I am a beginner.I would like you to spare

some time for me and kindly let me know your assessment of my Horoscope

whenever you have time.My private e-mail id is stephan1 (AT) nagpur (DOT) dot.net.in

My date of Birth is :26th Jan,1946

Timeof Birth:04.20a.m.

Place of birth: Chandrapur (Maharashtra)

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

-

Sanjay Rath

Thursday, October 24, 2002 10:32 PM

RE: [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Chandrasekhar,

I have been observing your erudite scholoarship in various mails. You are

definitely not a beginner. My views on your nice points are given under. Do

continue this meaning ful discussion.

Best Regards,

Sanjay Rath

71 Vasant Apartments, Mayur Vihar Ph-1, New Delhi 110091, India

Tel: +91-11-2713201 Web: http://srath.com http://.org

Chandrashekhar [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]Sent:

Thursday, October 24, 2002 1:57 AMSubject: Re:

[sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Re: Lesson on Vipareetam Ketoh

Respected Sanjay Rathji,

I know that I am a beginner and your poser is for those much advanced.However I

am daring to write this as there are a lot of confusing references to Ketu

relating to Moksha, spirituality etc. in the texts.

My understanding is that Ketu in certain positions viz. alone in 12th leads one

to Moksha.This is preordained.Moksha being attained on the bassis of Purva

Punya and current Life karma , though the actions may be right and in

conformity with spiritual thinking, it doesnot neccessarily give an

understanding of things spirituals per se.[Rath:] Such a position in the 12th

from Atmakaraka is more relevant as then the moksha is more meaningful when

considered from the Atma. The body must go one day, so there is not much point

in this placement of ketu in the 12th from lagna. In 12th bhava it does make

the native religious and can cause marital disturbance for 3 years - in the

past I have succeeded with the murti of a nartana Ganapati kept near the head

stand of the bed - saves the marriage.

Further it is said "Kujavat Ketu". Therefore it follows that Ketu alone would

act like Mars.Now Mars is associated with Dambha and not sprituality.Ketu

probably gives rise to moksha as in the designated position being alone he is

not likely to adjust well with opposite sex and could some time become

celibate, thus fulfiling the spiritual requirement for complete emancipation in

a way.[Rath:] Kujavat Ketu is the intrinsic nature of Ketu like Infra-red color

of ketu is higher than that of mars or the ultraviolet of rahu is deeper than

the violet of saturn. But mars is of a different temperament. Just compare the

Defence forces (Ketu) with the Police (Mars)..just the fighter level and not

the thinkers level and you will appreciate the point. Ketu causes 'soonya' or

annuls everything it joins - with Venus the native maintains celibacy and

becomes a tapaswi, with Jupiter the native renounces wealth and desires the

highest knowledge..in this way Ketu is strange and unpredictable, working in

the most secret ways and very sudden. I agree with the point you make about

brahmacharya..

On the other hand I think when we talk about really understanding the

sprituality then Saturn the deep thinker and Jupiter the Religious planet have

to have good Sambandha.In horoscopes of Great religious personality the

Saturn-Jupiter connection would invariably be seen.[Rath:] Saturn & Jupiter

have more to do with the learning and knowledge, Brahma yoga indeed. Here the

deepest knowledge (Jupiter) of the tradition of spirituality (Saturn) is handed

down ..example Srila Prabhupada Sat & Jup in 5th house in Navamsa, Sri Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu -Sat in 5 & Jup in Lagna in navamsa. But Ketu is a different cup of

tea..it is the Jyotish..thus Jup & Ketu give the deepest knowledge of Jyotish.

Then we can conclude that Jytish vidya does lead towards spirituality as it is

ruled by Mahavishnu (Jup) & Ganesha (Ketu).

Please pardon me if you feel that I have entered the discussions without

properly understanding the subject.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar. [Rath:] No need for this please, it is my pleasure.

Regards