GW BUSH- Personality Interpretation by Mr.Robert Koch

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

Please find two messages posted on GJ List by Mr.Koch(Jyotish Guru of SJC).I am

sure members will find it a very good learning experience(at least I did).As

the Americans would say,"Man,it is mind blowing."

Special thanks to Mr.Koch for the permission to post these messages to these lists.

With regards

Jagmeet

 

G W Bush - the true man vs. his image

15411

 

Why do you think so many people seem to "hate" GWB? If the media is to be

believed, it appears that about 50% hate and 50% respect him. I'm

contemplating this as I look at the polarization around the world.

 

This is a very good question, and brings up some important astrological points.

When we consider a person who is always seen in the public, and whose image is

determined based upon the persona and attributes as demonstrated in his

official position, then the Arudha lagna is a more important vantage point

astrologically speaking. Arudha means the "image", or the reflection of an

object. That part of the person which is reflected into the public, or that

image which he portrays as part of his wordily duties, is the Arudha lagna.

The actual lagna is the seat of Satya, or truth, and is the real person - his

tastes, intelligence, attributes, and determination. The worldly image may be

a more important for the President of the United States, as we only see the

Arudha - we do not see him as, perhaps, his wife or intimate friends see him.

Now, in Bush's chart, the Arudha lagna is Scorpio, where he has Ketu. This is a

rather strange influence for someone who carries such a powerful mundane role.

In my book on the "Spiritual Dimensions of Vedic Astrology", I did a lot of

research into the nature of spiritualists as portrayed through planets

occupying the Arudha lagna. Very often, in charts of saints and ascetics

(known ones, that is), Ketu occupies the AL, as the image is one of asceticism

and detachment. But how do you reconcile Ketu in the AL for G.W. Bush? The

image is rather strange, i.e. hard to figure out, and this inspires the

reaction of fear in people. That which people collectively cannot put a

definition to, is that his is hated or feared. This is a good reason why the

man is hated, feared, or blasted so much, now even by known allies.

But is he deserving of all the negative portrayals? According to Jaimini, one

of the most powerful and enduring Raja-yogas involves the conjunction of the

Moon and Jupiter. In this case, it is especially so, as Moon rules the lagna,

and Jupiter the 9th house. This attests to the "true" person, behind the

official mask of "leader of the free world."

Anyway, back to the Arudha lagna: Mars also aspects the AL, as does Saturn too

(by rashi drishti). Mars gives him the public image as tough guy, or one who

wants to start a war. Saturn gives him the image of being slow or dull, or not

so tuned in, and also as one who could inflict death as Saturn is a maraka lord.

But these are influences only effecting the illusion or image of the man; the

true man, is seen through the Raja-yoga involving the lagna, its lord first of

all; secondly, Mercury as 12th lord, and Saturn as 8th lord, form a Vipareet

Raja yoga, bring dignity to these planets, in spite of their house rulerships.

 

VARGA CHARTS

Without seeing the Navamsa and Dasamsa, especially of a world leader, we are

only getting part of the picture. Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and further

the levels of Sukriti or past life good karma, that got him into this position

in this life. You cannot help from being very impressed with the presence of

five planets (including Rahu) in the royal sign of Leo in the 10th house of his

Navamsa, while 10th lord Sun is in exaltation. Venus' exaltation as the 7th

lord, indicates that there is more of a favorable public opinion about him,

than otherwise. 50-50 is not actually correct. The poles persist on about a

60-40 divide over war with Iraq, although opinions of his domestic policy are

less than that. However, if the 7th lord of the Navamsa carries this much

strength, then he will continue to be popular, especially after the war when

all is said and done. In the Dasamsa chart, Mars is an exalted yogakaraka, and

occupies the 7th with Jupiter. He will gain in world opinion, after all the

chaos has died down.

DASA PERIODS

When there are equal or more planets in kendras to the ascendant, as there are

to the Moon, then the Vimsottari dasa of the lagna naksatra can be used. There

are equal number of planets from either vantage point in Bush's chart, and thus

either method (from Moon or lagna) can be used to calculate the Vim. dasas.

Now, if you look at the dasas from the lagna naksatra, the current period is of

Moon/Rahu/Mars, from 2/17/03 to 3/21/03. Mars and Rahu both influence the AL,

thus causing confusion around the motives behind Bush's aggression. Still, all

three are in the 10th house of the Navamsa, so it can be said that Bush (however

inadvertently) is part of a Dharmic or Divine process put in motion to rid the

world of some very undesirable and essentially demonic elements. If the

Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and these planet form a great Raja-yoga

therein, how could this be simply the aggressive instincts of a cowboy from

Texas? There are more subtle layers of integrity upon which we can identify

the man. These should be our criteria, rather than following the herd who

cannot discern the true man from his image, or the lagna from the Arudha lagna.

Now, the lagna-Vimsottari dasa turns to Moon/Jupiter as of 3/21/2003. This is

likely to be the approximate time when the war is over, or at least the more

intense levels of fighting. Moon and Jupiter are the crux of fame, popularity,

and influence in Bush's chart, in other words they bring forth the full effect

of Raja yoga. You can count on his global image improving dramatically during

this bhukti period, which lasts until 7/20/04.

ASSASSINATION?

Not likely at all. How could it happen? Gunshot would require that Mars be

malefic and afflict either the ascendant, its lord, or the 8th house

(preferably all three in the case of gunshot assassination, as in the case of

JFK). Poison? Then Rahu would have to be in similar position, yet he is not,

in exaltation in the best house for Rahu (the 11th). Fall from a high place,

i.e. being pushed off a cliff? Now its getting ridiculous! Mars would have to

be the sole significator for gunshot, and he is a powerful yoga-karaka in Bush's

chart, not an enemy, and further makes no affliction to the lagna, its lord, its

significator, or the 8th lord either. If Mars is powerful as a functional

malefic, then it is possible, otherwise it is highly unlikely.

CONCLUSIONS

Jyotish gives us the best set of tools with which to truly define a person,

his/her strengths and weakness, integrity, determination, destiny, etc. Just

because the image of the person is distorted or confusing as a result of Ketu

in the Arudha lagna, is not a reason to label the man in all the ways that he

has been crucified with in recent months. See his integrity from the Sun in

the Navamsa, the chart of Dharma. Therein, Bush's Sun is exalted. See the

goodness or otherwise of his thoughts and intentions through the Moon. Moon

joins Jupiter in Bush's chart, forming Raja yoga. See the purpose behind his

actions - Mars is a great yogakaraka in the birth chart, Navamsa, as well as

Dasamsa charts. There are so many other layers that can be portrayed too, yet

I'm a bit tired at the moment. Anyway, this has been an interesting

study............I'm sure there will be more in the future as well.

Best wishes,

Robert

 

15431

 

Thank you for your responses, and your supportive words as well. Let me answer

by quoting you first:

At 05:20 AM 2/28/03 -0500, you wrote:

But even you whom we know to be devoted to truth, entered your conviction in

interpretation, And risked to be one-sided, or maybe that s just my impression.

 

Thank you for your gentle prodding. Maintaining the strict practice of complete

objectivity is a challenge, I think you'd agree. Still, if the rules and

principles of Jyotish are followed, one invariably leaves his/her bias at the

door. Lets see then what you have to say:

Anna:

/Neither his chart, as I see it- would allow that/

That his image is strange, diffused - it does match.

Ø He s not the saint obviously-

 

RK:

How do you know? He does not wear the robes of a holy man, and his profession

is even less holy. However, if the lord of the 9th joins the lord of the

ascendant, can we not say at least that he is a religious man, or that he has

some faith? Further, the Kala-Amrta yoga in his chart causes all the planets

to move toward Ketu. Do you not get the hints that his soul is perhaps a bit

more evolved than the mystique around the Arudha lagna would suggest? Answer

objectively please. Finally, according to Jaimini, Ketu being in the 12th

from Karakamsa lagna (the sign of the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa chart), brings

Moksha. Now, I cannot assume anything on my own. However, there are definite

sutras stating this, and Bush has it in his chart. You have to look deeper to

see the true karmic pattern underlying the person.

But is he deserving of all the negative portrayals? According to Jaimini, one

of the most powerful and enduring Raja-yogas involves the conjunction of the

Moon and Jupiter. In this case, it is especially so, as Moon rules the lagna,

and Jupiter the 9th house. This attests to the "true" person, behind the

official mask of "leader of the free world."

Anna:

I don t understand this deserving -

Robert, wouldn t you expect from this Raja-Yoga and Moon-Jupiter contact to be

manifested in more charismatic appearance, than it s actually the case. And

since we haven t seen that would it be correct path of thinking if I suspect

that something more prominent in his chart prevents-obstructs this from fully

manifesting? In his appearance and possibly in OTHER ways, as well /Goodness

Assumption/

Jup-Moon is impressive in his chart- but where is that in his life? As per what we know.

So what that obstruction would be- I d say, let s have a look at that Saturn

/but on that you wrote bellow/

 

RK:

It depends on what you call "Charismatic". No, he doesn't have the charisma of a

Bill Clinton, or perhaps of David Letterman. But if you put him in the arena in

which he is strongest, i.e. being the first president in history to rise to the

call of attacks directly on Continental US soil, you have to say that he has a

lot of charisma. Did you see his speech after the 9/11 attacks, or the speech

following the Columbia space shuttle disaster? If it is a matter of protecting

his country, the duties for which he is dedicated as president, he does indeed

have integrity and shows it in his speeches. Otherwise, it is very hard to be

a "popular" president, with Saturn on the ascendant, and the mysterious or hard

to define image of Ketu in the Arudha lagna.

Anyway, back to the Arudha lagna: Mars also aspects the AL, as does Saturn too

(by rashi drishti). Mars gives him the public image as tough guy, or one who

wants to start a war. Saturn gives him the image of being slow or dull, or not

so tuned in, and also as one who could inflict death as Saturn is a maraka lord.

But these are influences only effecting the illusion or image of the man; the

true man, is seen through the Raja-yoga involving the lagna, its lord first of

all; secondly, Mercury as 12th lord, and Saturn as 8th lord, form a Vipareet

Raja yoga, bring dignity to these planets, in spite of their house rulerships.

 

Anna:

Here, it seems to me, you invite Vipareet Raya yoga to support your conviction.

You say that VRY bring dignity to these planets, and that s most likely helping

this unhappy/my conviction/ man survive and even be where he is- but it doesn t

annul ate basic malefic nature of Saturn, primarily, is that correct?

RK:

No, that is not correct. Vipreet Raja-yoga is only one angle from which to

view/understand Saturn/Venus/Mercury in Bush's chart. The clue is in

Parasara's advice to view the planetary positions/yogas from the lagna, the

Moon, as well as the ascendant. The Moon is the significator for the Arudha

lagna, and thus the image, i.e. statesmanship, leadership as seen in the eyes

of the world, is seen from the Moon lagna. His physical or outer persona, and

combinations underlying presidential duties, or other purposes, is seen from

the lagna. The Atma, or soul of the person, is seen from the Sun lagna. Now,

if you view those three planets including Saturn, Venus, and Mercury from the

Moon, they form a powerful Raja-yoga wherein Saturn rules the 5th, Venus the

9th, and Mercury the 1st and 10th. If you view them from the Sun, Saturn rules

the 9th, Venus the 5th, and Mercury the 1st and 4th. Those planets

respectively fall in the 1st, 11th, and 2nd from the lagna, the Moon, and the

Sun respectively. Herein you get a much different idea of power, fame, and

influence, in addition to great wealth (indeed Bush had become a

multi-millionaire on his own efforts, prior to entering the White House) than

the deeply maligned Saturn rising would suggest. How does the man become the

leader of the most powerful country in the world if he is the unhappy man

struggling to survive that you describe? Now Anna, is that your personal bias,

or are you seeing the astrological components from all angles objectively?

the dasas from the lagna naksatra, the current period is of Moon/Rahu/Mars, from

2/17/03 to 3/21/03. Mars and Rahu both influence the AL, thus causing confusion

around the motives behind Bush's aggression. Still, all three are in the 10th

house of the Navamsa, so it can be said that Bush (however inadvertently) is

part of a Dharmic or Divine process put in motion to rid the world of some very

undesirable and essentially demonic elements.

Anna:

It s hard for me to digest-

/Not-astro note- considering the number of wars fought against demons this world

be inhabited by saints only. And whose definition on demon counts- OH NO! /

RK:

Who said anything about demons? I agree, that word does raise unfair

characterizations, as well as fears and phobias. However, if the word could be

applied to someone we know, I think Saddam Hussein fits the descriptions pretty

well. Anyway, back to the astrology:

I agree, that who am I to say whether or not something is part of a Divine or

Dharmic process? Then again, is not everything part of a Divine process, while

we are all puppets in the hands of the Creator? Did you know that one of the

most respected spiritual treatises of all times, viz. the Bhagavad-gita, was

spoken on a battlefield? Why are wars not part of the Divine process?

Everyone wants peace, as do I. Isn't it ironical then, that there was never a

period of peace in the history of the world that did not come as a result of

war? And if war precipitates peace, is it then also not part of a Divine

process? and are those whose destiny puts them in a position to enact war as

leaders of countries not part of that process?

ATMAKARAKA

Anyway, my point was, that the Navamsa is the chart of Dharma. Further, the

Atmakaraka planet - viz. the one attaining the highest degrees in its sign - is

the most important one in the Navamsa to determine the level of dharma or the

spiritual process underlying the outward, official duties of the President.

Bush's AK is Venus, and is exalted in the 5th house of the Navamsa, while 5th

and 9th lords join the lagna lord in the 10th. You'll never see a Navamsa

chart this powerful in very many lifetimes. Now can you say that his works are

not part of a Divine process? Do we not unfairly judge people based on his

physical and outer persona, and also based upon those things that we do not

know about him? How much of our belief systems are based upon impressions and

conditioning? This is where we leave bias at the door, and rely *strictly* on

the principles of Jyotish.

Anna:

If the Navamsa is the chart of dharma, and these planet form a great Raja-yoga

therein, how could this be simply the aggressive instincts of a cowboy from

Texas? There are more subtle layers of integrity upon which we can identify

the man. These should be our criteria, rather than following the herd who

cannot discern the true man from his image, or the lagna from the Arudha lagna.

Where did you get that from- who said that Bush wants the war just because he s

an aggressive cowboy- that would be to naïve

RK:

I agree, yet some people offer up these kinds of criticisms. He was maligned in

the early going, just because he wore cowboy boots and hat in the White House a

couple of times. So you see, people avoid his Arudha, because Ketu stands at

the door and leaves them completely confused. People do not know how to

associate Ketu with a worldly image - this is the crux of the problem. Next,

the reaction is fear, as I went into yesterday, and that's the reason why he is

judged the way he is. This is why teaching, practicing, and spreading the

knowledge of Jyotish is a great and important mission. Without it, the masses

are left in the dark.

Anna:

What about Rahu in 10th in nine-harmonic chart as being unscrupulous urge and

family karma continuation which /Raya yoga/ is to be satisfied in this life of

a native /instead of punished. Besides, that s Bush s chart not of the demons

-they would have different, for sure, by virtue of the fact that they are

considered demons

Robert, would that be in accordance with jyotish to look at the same thing this way? Or another?

Rahu is very important in the charts of world leaders. If it is in a kendra

(the most important of which is the 10th house) with strong benefics as lords

of trinal houses, Moon and Jupiter particularly, then Rahu enhances the

magnitude of the Raja yoga. Look at the three most vital and important varga

charts for a world leader: They are the Navamsa, the Dasamsa, and the

Panchamsa (5th harmonic chart). In all three of those charts in Bush's case,

Rahu is in very powerful positions: In the rashi chart, he is in the

11th/exalted; in Navamsa, he is in the 10th in company with strong benefics; in

the Dasamsa, he is in the 3rd in his Moolatrikona sign of Virgo; and in the D-5,

he is in the 9th also in company with Jupiter and Venus. Rahu herein is

strongly contribute to his having the power to be the leader of the free world.

Coincidentally, Ketu is in the Arudha lagna of the Navamsa chart too

(Aquarius)........now this is really getting interesting.

Regarding the Panchamsa: This chart is very important for presidents and

leaders, as it brings the themes and symbolism of Leo fully into the pattern of

the persons's karma. Parasara and Jaimini both say, that even there is even one

strong planet in the Panchamsa, the individual has great leadership power. Now,

in Bush's D-5, there is a Dharma-karmadhipati yoga, i.e. exchange of 9th and

10th lords, while lagna lord is involved. There are some flaws there, however,

yet the one dharma yoga suffices to bring this man to the top of the heap so far

as worldly power goes.

ASSASSINATION?

Not likely at all. How could it happen? Gunshot would require that Mars be

malefic and afflict either the ascendant, its lord, or the 8th house

(preferably all three in the case of gunshot assassination, as in the case of

JFK). Poison? Then Rahu would have to be in similar position, yet he is not,

in exaltation in the best house for Rahu (the 11th). Fall from a high place,

i.e. being pushed off a cliff? Now its getting ridiculous! Mars would have to

be the sole significator for gunshot, and he is a powerful yoga-karaka in Bush's

chart, not an enemy, and further makes no affliction to the lagna, its lord, its

significator, or the 8th lord either. If Mars is powerful as a functional

malefic, then it is possible, otherwise it is highly unlikely.

Anna:

One more thing I d like to ask- this man suffered serious addiction problems and

that s also part of his personality-and must be in the chart

As we know we have sober and wet alcoholics PERSONALITY is the same- What would

be the substitute for actual drugs for this man?

 

RK:

First of all, you will be hard pressed to find any president anywhere who

*isn't* addicted to something! I'm just getting sick and tired of seeing

Saddam on TV on one of his Iraqi sponsored photo ops., smoking that cigar!

What then to speak of Winston Churchill........ Anyway, so far as sober and

wet alcoholics: That is probably true, that the personality flaw persists in

spite of sobriety. But is that a disqualification? From what I've seen, fully

recovered alcoholics can and often are, powerful contributors to some kind of

expansion in consciousness or creative purpose, however small it may be.

Alcoholism and additions: The crux of it is the Moon, coming under affliction

from Saturn and Rahu. This is the case in Bush's chart. Further, Mercury's

conjunction with Saturn contributes to depression, also a condition that Bush

might have been pre-disposed to.

Robert