Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Dear Wendy, This subject has been a 'work in progress' on your site for some time now. Given your preoccupations, I can very much appreciate your inability to complete the article. The subject was a bit academic till I discovered that my own software program was using True nodes as the default option. With this option, Rahu was in the 7th and Ketu in Lagna. Given my own philosophical and spiritual leanings, I could understand the position ok Ketu in Lagna. But Rahu in the 7th simply did not fit in with my wife - there was nothing 'foreign' about her. Recently I experimented with the mean position of the nodes. Lo and behold, Rahu moves to the 8th and Ketu to the second house. This fits in with my reality a bit more. Ketu in the 2nd may be indicative of my slight indiffernce to money matters and Rahu in 8th, my interest in spiritual matters. I understand that mean nodes are always retrogade as Rahu and Ketu are supposed to be and that true nodes are sometimes direct. This again points to the fact that Mean nodes may be the ones to use in Jyotisha. Could you please let me know your views on this matter. Views from other members are also most welcome. Many thanks and regards, Venkat ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Dear Mr Venkat Raman and others "Mean nodes may be the ones to use in Jyotisha". I have been working with Astrology as brought out to the modern world by fatherly figure of Late B..V.Raman.In all his books he suggested only mean modes.it also looks logical as these shadow planets are always in retrograde motion. when we use positions for interpretation it is not necessary that Rahu will in 7th House leads to a spouse who is "foreign".It can attribute also to the sign lord where it is placed. Infact when I look upon my 6th Rahu with Mars placed (on mean modes)in Taurus,an earthy sign it should lead to a job in a ovesaes/foreign country.but not the case.But Kala Purusha wise it is right to conclude it takes the form of Venus. sincerely Krishnan S Venkatraman <svenkat52 wrote: Dear Wendy, This subject has been a 'work in progress' on your site for some time now. Given your preoccupations, I can very much appreciate your inability to complete the article. The subject was a bit academic till I discovered that my own software program was using True nodes as the default option. With this option, Rahu was in the 7th and Ketu in Lagna. Given my own philosophical and spiritual leanings, I could understand the position ok Ketu in Lagna. But Rahu in the 7th simply did not fit in with my wife - there was nothing 'foreign' about her. Recently I experimented with the mean position of the nodes. Lo and behold, Rahu moves to the 8th and Ketu to the second house. This fits in with my reality a bit more. Ketu in the 2nd may be indicative of my slight indiffernce to money matters and Rahu in 8th, my interest in spiritual matters. I understand that mean nodes are always retrogade as Rahu and Ketu are supposed to be and that true nodes are sometimes direct. This again points to the fact that Mean nodes may be the ones to use in Jyotisha. Could you please let me know your views on this matter. Views from other members are also most welcome. Many thanks and regards, Venkat ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Dear Venkat, Certainly the motion of the Moon's Mean Node is always retrograde. However, as the True Node oscillates according to the Moon's "wobble" (caused by the gravitational effects of the Earth/Moon interaction) there are sometimes periods of direct motion. The Mean Node simply averages this "wobble" out. With the benefit of computers today more precise calculations are possible, and, as there is often a marked difference between the actual position of Mean and True Node, it becomes important to know the "True" position rather than just an estimation, wouldn't you say? It is said that the Nodes become extremely powerful when they're either stationary or in direct motion. We discussed this at length on the old group some time ago using (as example) the charts of many famous/successful people with Rahu either stationary or in direct motion. Mahatma Gandhi, if my memory serves me, was one with stationary Rahu conjunct Moon in 10th house. As for your chart with Rahu in 7th it's important to consider all the significations of this house as, apart from showing the nature of spouse etc., it also governs such things as trade, commerce, relationship with others, all partnerships, world at large etc.. This Rahu, as I see it, is very much connected with your career. Note Rahu occupies nakshatra of 10th lord Mars whilst his dispositor Saturn occupies 10th from Moon... Perhaps you could think about the significance of worldly Rahu in 7th as opposed to 8th and (hopefully) share your thoughts with the list - PS: You're correct about that article...it has been a long time coming, sorry! However I do plan to "get to it" as soon as time permits :-) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "S Venkatraman" <svenkat52 <jyotish-vidya> Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:48 AM True and Mean Nodes Dear Wendy, This subject has been a 'work in progress' on your site for some time now. Given your preoccupations, I can very much appreciate your inability to complete the article. The subject was a bit academic till I discovered that my own software program was using True nodes as the default option. With this option, Rahu was in the 7th and Ketu in Lagna. Given my own philosophical and spiritual leanings, I could understand the position ok Ketu in Lagna. But Rahu in the 7th simply did not fit in with my wife - there was nothing 'foreign' about her. Recently I experimented with the mean position of the nodes. Lo and behold, Rahu moves to the 8th and Ketu to the second house. This fits in with my reality a bit more. Ketu in the 2nd may be indicative of my slight indiffernce to money matters and Rahu in 8th, my interest in spiritual matters. I understand that mean nodes are always retrogade as Rahu and Ketu are supposed to be and that true nodes are sometimes direct. This again points to the fact that Mean nodes may be the ones to use in Jyotisha. Could you please let me know your views on this matter. Views from other members are also most welcome. Many thanks and regards, Venkat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Dear Wendy, The wobbling of the planets is considered as normal(is it not?) planetary feature and now to some extent the concept of Ayanamsa calculations introduced will have to be taken care. Secondly,the position of planets as per Bhava Chart too should help in delineating the effects for comparitive reasons.If the positions are different,then let's also take them in to account.If not i think there is no problem Thirdly in the case of Rahu-Ketu(as outer planets?) which are nodes the retrogression may not be so pronounced as in the case of other seven planets. Yet I am to be clear about the kind of positional effects/influences of rahu-ketu are not clear.Some how if rahy by virtue of attaining for higheset degrees competes for A.K in a chart then we will have definete problems in delination. I welcome your valuable views in delineating the effects of nodes sincerely krishnan Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: Dear Venkat, Certainly the motion of the Moon's Mean Node is always retrograde. However, as the True Node oscillates according to the Moon's "wobble" (caused by the gravitational effects of the Earth/Moon interaction) there are sometimes periods of direct motion. The Mean Node simply averages this "wobble" out. With the benefit of computers today more precise calculations are possible, and, as there is often a marked difference between the actual position of Mean and True Node, it becomes important to know the "True" position rather than just an estimation, wouldn't you say? It is said that the Nodes become extremely powerful when they're either stationary or in direct motion. We discussed this at length on the old group some time ago using (as example) the charts of many famous/successful people with Rahu either stationary or in direct motion. Mahatma Gandhi, if my memory serves me, was one with stationary Rahu conjunct Moon in 10th house. As for your chart with Rahu in 7th it's important to consider all the significations of this house as, apart from showing the nature of spouse etc., it also governs such things as trade, commerce, relationship with others, all partnerships, world at large etc.. This Rahu, as I see it, is very much connected with your career. Note Rahu occupies nakshatra of 10th lord Mars whilst his dispositor Saturn occupies 10th from Moon... Perhaps you could think about the significance of worldly Rahu in 7th as opposed to 8th and (hopefully) share your thoughts with the list - PS: You're correct about that article...it has been a long time coming, sorry! However I do plan to "get to it" as soon as time permits :-) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "S Venkatraman" <svenkat52 <jyotish-vidya> Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:48 AM True and Mean Nodes Dear Wendy, This subject has been a 'work in progress' on your site for some time now. Given your preoccupations, I can very much appreciate your inability to complete the article. The subject was a bit academic till I discovered that my own software program was using True nodes as the default option. With this option, Rahu was in the 7th and Ketu in Lagna. Given my own philosophical and spiritual leanings, I could understand the position ok Ketu in Lagna. But Rahu in the 7th simply did not fit in with my wife - there was nothing 'foreign' about her. Recently I experimented with the mean position of the nodes. Lo and behold, Rahu moves to the 8th and Ketu to the second house. This fits in with my reality a bit more. Ketu in the 2nd may be indicative of my slight indiffernce to money matters and Rahu in 8th, my interest in spiritual matters. I understand that mean nodes are always retrogade as Rahu and Ketu are supposed to be and that true nodes are sometimes direct. This again points to the fact that Mean nodes may be the ones to use in Jyotisha. Could you please let me know your views on this matter. Views from other members are also most welcome. Many thanks and regards, Venkat jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Dear Krishnan, >>The wobbling of the planets is considered as normal(is it not?) >>planetary feature<< Let's try to keep the topic free of other things (for now). The primary concern here is simply whether to use the more precise Nodal position or to rely solely on the approximated position... >>and now to some extent the concept of Ayanamsa calculations >>introduced will have to be taken care.<< This is an entirely different matter. However, I have no reason to doubt the correctness of Lahiri ayanamsha. >>Secondly,the position of planets as per Bhava Chart too should >>help in delineating the effects for comparitive reasons.If the >>positions are different,then let's also take them in to account.If >>not i think there is no problem<< Bhava chart is a little off-topic here as the position of Nodes in Rasi is the question at hand. Also whether True or Mean Node is used in Venkat's example, Rahu remains in same house for both charts. >>Thirdly in the case of Rahu-Ketu(as outer planets?) which are >>nodes the retrogression may not be so pronounced as in the case of >>other seven planets.<< If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible. Yet I am to be clear about the kind of positional effects/influences of rahu-ketu are not clear.<< The effect of the Nodes, which are influenced by (and in turn exert their influence on) their associations, can be seen through their dispositor. In Venkat's chart Rahu's influence is either expressed through Saturn's 7th lordship or his 8th lordship. What must be decided is; which area of life is the most compelling. Rahu, as we know, is associated with worldly benefits/success unless he's associated with a planet that counteracts that. Venkat knows his life better than anyone so this is a question he must ponder. However, in light of the strong connection both Rahu and his dispositor have with career, I think the focus should be on this area particularly. First observation is that the dispositor of Rahu's dispositor is in sign of Jupiter who occupies 10th house. Secondly Rahu occupies nakshatra of 10th lord Mars (occupation/position in life) whilst Mars sits in Rahu's constellation...does 10th lord's nakshatra lord occupy 7th house of trade, business, partners (all partners, corporate associates etc), or does it occupy the 8th? >>Some how if rahy by virtue of attaining for higheset degrees >>competes for A.K in a chart then we will have definete problems in >>delination.<< I don't to the assumption that Rahu can assume the role of AtmaKaraka (indicator of Soul) under any circumstances. Of course many have different views regarding the use of chara karakas... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 My apologies-- >>First observation is that the dispositor of Rahu's dispositor is in sign of Jupiter who occupies 10th house.<< That should read; "Nakshatra lord of Rahu's dispositor is in sign of Jupiter....." (more haste, less speed...fingers operating quicker than the brain is never a good idea.) _________________________________ - "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas <jyotish-vidya> Monday, January 24, 2005 1:38 AM Re: True and Mean Nodes Dear Krishnan, >>The wobbling of the planets is considered as normal(is it not?) >>planetary feature<< Let's try to keep the topic free of other things (for now). The primary concern here is simply whether to use the more precise Nodal position or to rely solely on the approximated position... >>and now to some extent the concept of Ayanamsa calculations >>introduced will have to be taken care.<< This is an entirely different matter. However, I have no reason to doubt the correctness of Lahiri ayanamsha. >>Secondly,the position of planets as per Bhava Chart too should >>help in delineating the effects for comparitive reasons.If the >>positions are different,then let's also take them in to account.If >>not i think there is no problem<< Bhava chart is a little off-topic here as the position of Nodes in Rasi is the question at hand. Also whether True or Mean Node is used in Venkat's example, Rahu remains in same house for both charts. >>Thirdly in the case of Rahu-Ketu(as outer planets?) which are >>nodes the retrogression may not be so pronounced as in the case of >>other seven planets.<< If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible. Yet I am to be clear about the kind of positional effects/influences of rahu-ketu are not clear.<< The effect of the Nodes, which are influenced by (and in turn exert their influence on) their associations, can be seen through their dispositor. In Venkat's chart Rahu's influence is either expressed through Saturn's 7th lordship or his 8th lordship. What must be decided is; which area of life is the most compelling. Rahu, as we know, is associated with worldly benefits/success unless he's associated with a planet that counteracts that. Venkat knows his life better than anyone so this is a question he must ponder. However, in light of the strong connection both Rahu and his dispositor have with career, I think the focus should be on this area particularly. First observation is that the dispositor of Rahu's dispositor is in sign of Jupiter who occupies 10th house. Secondly Rahu occupies nakshatra of 10th lord Mars (occupation/position in life) whilst Mars sits in Rahu's constellation...does 10th lord's nakshatra lord occupy 7th house of trade, business, partners (all partners, corporate associates etc), or does it occupy the 8th? >>Some how if rahy by virtue of attaining for higheset degrees >>competes for A.K in a chart then we will have definete problems in >>delination.<< I don't to the assumption that Rahu can assume the role of AtmaKaraka (indicator of Soul) under any circumstances. Of course many have different views regarding the use of chara karakas... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Dear wendy, If true and mean positions are derivations coming out of the motion,i am sure the variation will not be considerable to find that there is a change to an extent of 30dgrees.But iam sure in our subject we have an approach of considering the planetary status(like vriddha ,mudita,mrtyu and many more ) for delineation purpose even if we ignore all other basics. Even if iam permitted to say that Astrology now with computer's aid are able to come out with some minute details and with collateral information of many more things.But for Astrology as my late taecher said once it is not matehematically based science to depend on the actual movements and come out with delineations'So some where we need to moderate and consider the issues.By a holistic approach in Astrology all issues become more clear but not just: "If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible" I do not deny accuracy but that alone by few degrees of less than 5 degrees should not matter if we can come to a consensus of the retrograding state of the planets (of nodes). Anyway mean position as it looks is most comfortable unless some more research goes in to the subject.Yet in vedic Astrology where principles invlved have not been narrowed down for precision and exact intepretation. Relation between 7th and 8th is more from the point of view of an angle and a badhaka from Ascendent.we need also to apply from other lagnas too for a holistic approach. Any way the dat if available could have helped to find the differences in delineation due to disposition. Thanx sincer;ey krishnan Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: Dear Krishnan, >>The wobbling of the planets is considered as normal(is it not?) >>planetary feature<< Let's try to keep the topic free of other things (for now). The primary concern here is simply whether to use the more precise Nodal position or to rely solely on the approximated position... >>and now to some extent the concept of Ayanamsa calculations >>introduced will have to be taken care.<< This is an entirely different matter. However, I have no reason to doubt the correctness of Lahiri ayanamsha. >>Secondly,the position of planets as per Bhava Chart too should >>help in delineating the effects for comparitive reasons.If the >>positions are different,then let's also take them in to account.If >>not i think there is no problem<< Bhava chart is a little off-topic here as the position of Nodes in Rasi is the question at hand. Also whether True or Mean Node is used in Venkat's example, Rahu remains in same house for both charts. >>Thirdly in the case of Rahu-Ketu(as outer planets?) which are >>nodes the retrogression may not be so pronounced as in the case of >>other seven planets.<< If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible. Yet I am to be clear about the kind of positional effects/influences of rahu-ketu are not clear.<< The effect of the Nodes, which are influenced by (and in turn exert their influence on) their associations, can be seen through their dispositor. In Venkat's chart Rahu's influence is either expressed through Saturn's 7th lordship or his 8th lordship. What must be decided is; which area of life is the most compelling. Rahu, as we know, is associated with worldly benefits/success unless he's associated with a planet that counteracts that. Venkat knows his life better than anyone so this is a question he must ponder. However, in light of the strong connection both Rahu and his dispositor have with career, I think the focus should be on this area particularly. First observation is that the dispositor of Rahu's dispositor is in sign of Jupiter who occupies 10th house. Secondly Rahu occupies nakshatra of 10th lord Mars (occupation/position in life) whilst Mars sits in Rahu's constellation...does 10th lord's nakshatra lord occupy 7th house of trade, business, partners (all partners, corporate associates etc), or does it occupy the 8th? >>Some how if rahy by virtue of attaining for higheset degrees >>competes for A.K in a chart then we will have definete problems in >>delination.<< I don't to the assumption that Rahu can assume the role of AtmaKaraka (indicator of Soul) under any circumstances. Of course many have different views regarding the use of chara karakas... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Dear Wendy and Krishnan, I have been very busy with work for the past few days. Will get back with details in a day or two. Thanks. Venkat vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: Dear wendy, If true and mean positions are derivations coming out of the motion,i am sure the variation will not be considerable to find that there is a change to an extent of 30dgrees.But iam sure in our subject we have an approach of considering the planetary status(like vriddha ,mudita,mrtyu and many more ) for delineation purpose even if we ignore all other basics. Even if iam permitted to say that Astrology now with computer's aid are able to come out with some minute details and with collateral information of many more things.But for Astrology as my late taecher said once it is not matehematically based science to depend on the actual movements and come out with delineations'So some where we need to moderate and consider the issues.By a holistic approach in Astrology all issues become more clear but not just: "If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible" I do not deny accuracy but that alone by few degrees of less than 5 degrees should not matter if we can come to a consensus of the retrograding state of the planets (of nodes). Anyway mean position as it looks is most comfortable unless some more research goes in to the subject.Yet in vedic Astrology where principles invlved have not been narrowed down for precision and exact intepretation. Relation between 7th and 8th is more from the point of view of an angle and a badhaka from Ascendent.we need also to apply from other lagnas too for a holistic approach. Any way the dat if available could have helped to find the differences in delineation due to disposition. Thanx sincer;ey krishnan Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: Dear Krishnan, >>The wobbling of the planets is considered as normal(is it not?) >>planetary feature<< Let's try to keep the topic free of other things (for now). The primary concern here is simply whether to use the more precise Nodal position or to rely solely on the approximated position... >>and now to some extent the concept of Ayanamsa calculations >>introduced will have to be taken care.<< This is an entirely different matter. However, I have no reason to doubt the correctness of Lahiri ayanamsha. >>Secondly,the position of planets as per Bhava Chart too should >>help in delineating the effects for comparitive reasons.If the >>positions are different,then let's also take them in to account.If >>not i think there is no problem<< Bhava chart is a little off-topic here as the position of Nodes in Rasi is the question at hand. Also whether True or Mean Node is used in Venkat's example, Rahu remains in same house for both charts. >>Thirdly in the case of Rahu-Ketu(as outer planets?) which are >>nodes the retrogression may not be so pronounced as in the case of >>other seven planets.<< If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible. Yet I am to be clear about the kind of positional effects/influences of rahu-ketu are not clear.<< The effect of the Nodes, which are influenced by (and in turn exert their influence on) their associations, can be seen through their dispositor. In Venkat's chart Rahu's influence is either expressed through Saturn's 7th lordship or his 8th lordship. What must be decided is; which area of life is the most compelling. Rahu, as we know, is associated with worldly benefits/success unless he's associated with a planet that counteracts that. Venkat knows his life better than anyone so this is a question he must ponder. However, in light of the strong connection both Rahu and his dispositor have with career, I think the focus should be on this area particularly. First observation is that the dispositor of Rahu's dispositor is in sign of Jupiter who occupies 10th house. Secondly Rahu occupies nakshatra of 10th lord Mars (occupation/position in life) whilst Mars sits in Rahu's constellation...does 10th lord's nakshatra lord occupy 7th house of trade, business, partners (all partners, corporate associates etc), or does it occupy the 8th? >>Some how if rahy by virtue of attaining for higheset degrees >>competes for A.K in a chart then we will have definete problems in >>delination.<< I don't to the assumption that Rahu can assume the role of AtmaKaraka (indicator of Soul) under any circumstances. Of course many have different views regarding the use of chara karakas... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Dear Krishnan, It's a pity that the archives from (previous) group have been lost as many charts with "Rahu Direct" had been discussed. The research showed strong evidence that Rahu in direct motion was a powerful force in the charts of those who'd achieved the greatest fame/success. I suggest that you gather the charts of as many powerful figures as you can and you'll find that Rahu is in direct motion in the greatest percentage of those charts. This distinction is unavailable when using the "Mean Node" option.... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "vattem krishnan" <bursar_99 <jyotish-vidya> Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:25 AM Re: True and Mean Nodes Dear wendy, If true and mean positions are derivations coming out of the motion,i am sure the variation will not be considerable to find that there is a change to an extent of 30dgrees.But iam sure in our subject we have an approach of considering the planetary status(like vriddha ,mudita,mrtyu and many more ) for delineation purpose even if we ignore all other basics. Even if iam permitted to say that Astrology now with computer's aid are able to come out with some minute details and with collateral information of many more things.But for Astrology as my late taecher said once it is not matehematically based science to depend on the actual movements and come out with delineations'So some where we need to moderate and consider the issues.By a holistic approach in Astrology all issues become more clear but not just: "If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible" I do not deny accuracy but that alone by few degrees of less than 5 degrees should not matter if we can come to a consensus of the retrograding state of the planets (of nodes). Anyway mean position as it looks is most comfortable unless some more research goes in to the subject.Yet in vedic Astrology where principles invlved have not been narrowed down for precision and exact intepretation. Relation between 7th and 8th is more from the point of view of an angle and a badhaka from Ascendent.we need also to apply from other lagnas too for a holistic approach. Any way the dat if available could have helped to find the differences in delineation due to disposition. Thanx sincer;ey krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Dear Krishnan, You Wrote: >>But for Astrology as my late taecher said once it is not >>matehematically based science to depend on the actual movements >>and come out with delineations.<< I beg to differ! Knowledge of astronomy - the structure of the solar system and the universe (Gola) - is absolutely essential. How can one (correctly) cast a chart without this knowledge? And, without a correct chart, correct delineation is not possible... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Dear Wendy, Solar System is a universal truth and no denial.Monements of Planets have some kind of measurabilty if we take known and un known factors But: Factors(karakatwas) attributed to planets are based on wisdom Signs(Zodiacs) and very importanat Bhavas are an imminent base for delineation and interpretation.These bhavas exploration is again based on experience of exponents of this Vedang Jyotish capability of Planets producing the results are based on the degrees attained for interpretation and delineating results Again theoritical base for all these explorations is based on a very very old litterature which now under brainstorming by various modern seekers in Astrology Iam not denying accuracy and also not that predictions have no link to positions of planets. What Iam proposing is only the extent of variation in true and mean positions of nodes and the resulatant interpretations. I am strongly on the same wave length but more from utilatarian approach of the developing aspect. krishnan Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: Dear Krishnan, You Wrote: >>But for Astrology as my late taecher said once it is not >>matehematically based science to depend on the actual movements >>and come out with delineations.<< I beg to differ! Knowledge of astronomy - the structure of the solar system and the universe (Gola) - is absolutely essential. How can one (correctly) cast a chart without this knowledge? And, without a correct chart, correct delineation is not possible... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya The all-new My – Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 PS: I would just like to make one final comment on this issue... It's an astronomical fact that the Nodes (for short periods) are in direct motion...this is undeniable! However whether one chooses to observe this phenomenon or not (when casting a chart) is a matter of personal choice. Just as it is within the scientific world at large, the controversies within the jyotish community are endless. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas <jyotish-vidya> Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:19 AM Re: True and Mean Nodes Dear Krishnan, You Wrote: >>But for Astrology as my late taecher said once it is not >>matehematically based science to depend on the actual movements >>and come out with delineations.<< I beg to differ! Knowledge of astronomy - the structure of the solar system and the universe (Gola) - is absolutely essential. How can one (correctly) cast a chart without this knowledge? And, without a correct chart, correct delineation is not possible... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Dear Krishnan, >>But: Factors(karakatwas) attributed to planets are based on wisdom Signs(Zodiacs) and very importanat Bhavas are an imminent base for delineation and interpretation.These bhavas exploration is again based on experience of exponents of this Vedang Jyotish<< Although I'm quite sure everyone here is in agreement with this, it is not the point under discussion... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Dear Wendy, is there anyway to find how true position of rahu is as compared to mean in the case where the results/interpretations are significantly different.In my own case as i told Rahu in 6th in Taurus based on mean calculations continue to trouble me.If it get backs to 7th and joins with mercury 7th lord.iam unable to think what could have happened to my interset in occult sciences.My 7th is Gemini where mercury is present.if i get back to true rahu and ketu position the lagna will have ketu. so iam not convinced with true position of nodes. You can enlighten me if this approach of taking nodes helps our subject and what the consensus of our group. Thanx Krishnan Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: Dear Krishnan, >>But: Factors(karakatwas) attributed to planets are based on wisdom Signs(Zodiacs) and very importanat Bhavas are an imminent base for delineation and interpretation.These bhavas exploration is again based on experience of exponents of this Vedang Jyotish<< Although I'm quite sure everyone here is in agreement with this, it is not the point under discussion... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Meet the all-new My – Try it today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Dear Krishnan, It would be necessary to look at your chart or at least know the degree of Mean Node. For Venkat Mean Node was at 28°46'51" so the adjustment for True nodal position was sufficient to change the house location. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "vattem krishnan" <bursar_99 <jyotish-vidya> Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:53 AM Re: True and Mean Nodes Dear Wendy, is there anyway to find how true position of rahu is as compared to mean in the case where the results/interpretations are significantly different.In my own case as i told Rahu in 6th in Taurus based on mean calculations continue to trouble me.If it get backs to 7th and joins with mercury 7th lord.iam unable to think what could have happened to my interset in occult sciences.My 7th is Gemini where mercury is present.if i get back to true rahu and ketu position the lagna will have ketu. so iam not convinced with true position of nodes. You can enlighten me if this approach of taking nodes helps our subject and what the consensus of our group. Thanx Krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Dear Wendy, Mean Node is 37 deg 04 min and exalted. krishnan Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: Dear Krishnan, It would be necessary to look at your chart or at least know the degree of Mean Node. For Venkat Mean Node was at 28°46'51" so the adjustment for True nodal position was sufficient to change the house location. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "vattem krishnan" <bursar_99 <jyotish-vidya> Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:53 AM Re: True and Mean Nodes Dear Wendy, is there anyway to find how true position of rahu is as compared to mean in the case where the results/interpretations are significantly different.In my own case as i told Rahu in 6th in Taurus based on mean calculations continue to trouble me.If it get backs to 7th and joins with mercury 7th lord.iam unable to think what could have happened to my interset in occult sciences.My 7th is Gemini where mercury is present.if i get back to true rahu and ketu position the lagna will have ketu. so iam not convinced with true position of nodes. You can enlighten me if this approach of taking nodes helps our subject and what the consensus of our group. Thanx Krishnan jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya The all-new My – What will yours do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 PS: A good Ephemeris will give the positions of True Node. The one I've used for many years, The American Ephemeris, gives a D or R next to the degree indicating whether in Direct or Retrograde motion. And, of course, most softwares today have the option for either True or Mean Node. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas <jyotish-vidya> Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:05 PM Re: True and Mean Nodes Dear Krishnan, It would be necessary to look at your chart or at least know the degree of Mean Node. For Venkat Mean Node was at 28°46'51" so the adjustment for True nodal position was sufficient to change the house location. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "vattem krishnan" <bursar_99 <jyotish-vidya> Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:53 AM Re: True and Mean Nodes Dear Wendy, is there anyway to find how true position of rahu is as compared to mean in the case where the results/interpretations are significantly different.In my own case as i told Rahu in 6th in Taurus based on mean calculations continue to trouble me.If it get backs to 7th and joins with mercury 7th lord.iam unable to think what could have happened to my interset in occult sciences.My 7th is Gemini where mercury is present.if i get back to true rahu and ketu position the lagna will have ketu. so iam not convinced with true position of nodes. You can enlighten me if this approach of taking nodes helps our subject and what the consensus of our group. Thanx Krishnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Thanx.I agree. Krishnan Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: PS: I would just like to make one final comment on this issue... It's an astronomical fact that the Nodes (for short periods) are in direct motion...this is undeniable! However whether one chooses to observe this phenomenon or not (when casting a chart) is a matter of personal choice. Just as it is within the scientific world at large, the controversies within the jyotish community are endless. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com - "Wendy Vasicek" <wenvas <jyotish-vidya> Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:19 AM Re: True and Mean Nodes Dear Krishnan, You Wrote: >>But for Astrology as my late taecher said once it is not >>matehematically based science to depend on the actual movements >>and come out with delineations.<< I beg to differ! Knowledge of astronomy - the structure of the solar system and the universe (Gola) - is absolutely essential. How can one (correctly) cast a chart without this knowledge? And, without a correct chart, correct delineation is not possible... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Thanx Venkat krishnan P.S: we need ur experiences about true and mean nodes issues S Venkatraman <svenkat52 wrote: Dear Wendy and Krishnan, I have been very busy with work for the past few days. Will get back with details in a day or two. Thanks. Venkat vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: Dear wendy, If true and mean positions are derivations coming out of the motion,i am sure the variation will not be considerable to find that there is a change to an extent of 30dgrees.But iam sure in our subject we have an approach of considering the planetary status(like vriddha ,mudita,mrtyu and many more ) for delineation purpose even if we ignore all other basics. Even if iam permitted to say that Astrology now with computer's aid are able to come out with some minute details and with collateral information of many more things.But for Astrology as my late taecher said once it is not matehematically based science to depend on the actual movements and come out with delineations'So some where we need to moderate and consider the issues.By a holistic approach in Astrology all issues become more clear but not just: "If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible" I do not deny accuracy but that alone by few degrees of less than 5 degrees should not matter if we can come to a consensus of the retrograding state of the planets (of nodes). Anyway mean position as it looks is most comfortable unless some more research goes in to the subject.Yet in vedic Astrology where principles invlved have not been narrowed down for precision and exact intepretation. Relation between 7th and 8th is more from the point of view of an angle and a badhaka from Ascendent.we need also to apply from other lagnas too for a holistic approach. Any way the dat if available could have helped to find the differences in delineation due to disposition. Thanx sincer;ey krishnan Wendy Vasicek <wenvas wrote: Dear Krishnan, >>The wobbling of the planets is considered as normal(is it not?) >>planetary feature<< Let's try to keep the topic free of other things (for now). The primary concern here is simply whether to use the more precise Nodal position or to rely solely on the approximated position... >>and now to some extent the concept of Ayanamsa calculations >>introduced will have to be taken care.<< This is an entirely different matter. However, I have no reason to doubt the correctness of Lahiri ayanamsha. >>Secondly,the position of planets as per Bhava Chart too should >>help in delineating the effects for comparitive reasons.If the >>positions are different,then let's also take them in to account.If >>not i think there is no problem<< Bhava chart is a little off-topic here as the position of Nodes in Rasi is the question at hand. Also whether True or Mean Node is used in Venkat's example, Rahu remains in same house for both charts. >>Thirdly in the case of Rahu-Ketu(as outer planets?) which are >>nodes the retrogression may not be so pronounced as in the case of >>other seven planets.<< If the difference is sufficient to place the Node in another house it should alert us to the need for as accurate calculation as possible. Yet I am to be clear about the kind of positional effects/influences of rahu-ketu are not clear.<< The effect of the Nodes, which are influenced by (and in turn exert their influence on) their associations, can be seen through their dispositor. In Venkat's chart Rahu's influence is either expressed through Saturn's 7th lordship or his 8th lordship. What must be decided is; which area of life is the most compelling. Rahu, as we know, is associated with worldly benefits/success unless he's associated with a planet that counteracts that. Venkat knows his life better than anyone so this is a question he must ponder. However, in light of the strong connection both Rahu and his dispositor have with career, I think the focus should be on this area particularly. First observation is that the dispositor of Rahu's dispositor is in sign of Jupiter who occupies 10th house. Secondly Rahu occupies nakshatra of 10th lord Mars (occupation/position in life) whilst Mars sits in Rahu's constellation...does 10th lord's nakshatra lord occupy 7th house of trade, business, partners (all partners, corporate associates etc), or does it occupy the 8th? >>Some how if rahy by virtue of attaining for higheset degrees >>competes for A.K in a chart then we will have definete problems in >>delination.<< I don't to the assumption that Rahu can assume the role of AtmaKaraka (indicator of Soul) under any circumstances. Of course many have different views regarding the use of chara karakas... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! jyotish-vidya/ jyotish-vidya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2005 Report Share Posted September 18, 2005 color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Tarun, Namaskar The difference between true and mean node is sometimes upto one degree. See, the nodes are the points where the Moon crosses the ecliptic. Rahu is the time when the Moon is about to move upwards (hence called north node) whilst Ketu is the time when the Moon is about to move downwards. This ecliptic is measured based on the angle between the Sun and Earth. Hence should the Moon cross the ecliptic whilst the Sun is at the same point, then an ECLIPSE happens. We will have one solar eclipse in about 15 days or so because of this. Now what is the difference between True and Mean node? When the Moon orbits around the earth, it doesn’t do so in a perfect linear motion.. it has a wobble! This wobble is adjusted for in the calculation of the true nodes. However, with this adjustment the nodes will go direct sometimes, but retrograde most of the time. So mathematically the true nodes are correct in assesing the exact position where the Moon crosses the ecliptic, hence the true nodes are correct for assesing times of an eclipse! The Mean nodes have a perfect mean or linear motion, and are always retrograde, contrary to the Sun and Moon who are always direct. Here the Jyotish paradigm for the nodes is formed, where the nodes by definition are retrograde always because of their ‘role’ in jyotish. The nodes are called karmic control planets because they always relate to the past karma that we as humans have done and are being measured by. This gives us; 2 retrograde nodes, 2 direct luminaries and 5 planets which can go either way. The end result; True nodes are used to time eclipses, whilst mean nodes are used for jyotish. Some people disagree with this and use true nodes for everything. Best wishes, *** 10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Visti Larsen 10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com color:navy"> or http://astrovisti.com *** font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold"> [] On Behalf Of Tarun 18 September 2005 04:34 [Om Krishna Guru] True and Mean nodes 12.0pt"> 10.0pt">Dear visti ji, what is the differance between True node and mean node as i get different chart if i use true and if i use mean node system. might be because of the transit of Rahu and ketu in the days of my birth. and what should i follow. Kindly suggest . Tarun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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