Guest guest Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hello all, this is Sari from Helsinki, Finland, a jyotisha beginner. Wendy wrote: Fraser asked me to teach him what constitutes exaltation...the simple answer to that is; an exalted planet has maximum strength to do good...as the strength diminishes so the beneficial nature of the planet diminishes. Sari: This is very interesting and just the kind of knowledge I need in this phase of my studies. But how about when a planet is debilitated, but nevertheless has considerable strength in shadbala? One example is a Finnish national hero CGE Mannerheim, who was the commander-in-chief in WWII when Finland managed to retain it's independence against the giant opponent. Mannerheim's time of birth is the 4th June 1867 (7.05 PM -2.00 EST) Louhisaari, Finland 60N35 21E49; Lagna 27 Libra 08; the Moon 21 Gemini 11. Mannerheim's Mars is debilitated in Cancer, but it has 8.0 rupas in shadbala, partly because it's in the 10th house and therefore has digbala. So we cannot say this Mars is much dignified, but does it have strength to do good or does it only have strength? Thanks in advance, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dear Sari, Mannerheim had the help of exalted 4th/5th lord Saturn (a yogakaraka for this Ascendant) to lift him up to a high position. This Saturn aspects Mars in 10th, as well as lagnesh Venus, from lagna. As we know, Saturn has the power to make one a leader. Interesting to note that, in the planetary hierarchy, Mars is the commander in chief. Also interesting that Mars nakshatra lord (Mercury) joins Sun in 8th house of battles, (battle) forts etc.. Thank you for offering this interesting chart - it's well worth studying in more depth. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Sari M." <gerdapp <jyotish-vidya> Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:43 PM The strength to do good Hello all, this is Sari from Helsinki, Finland, a jyotisha beginner. Wendy wrote: Fraser asked me to teach him what constitutes exaltation...the simple answer to that is; an exalted planet has maximum strength to do good...as the strength diminishes so the beneficial nature of the planet diminishes. Sari: This is very interesting and just the kind of knowledge I need in this phase of my studies. But how about when a planet is debilitated, but nevertheless has considerable strength in shadbala? One example is a Finnish national hero CGE Mannerheim, who was the commander-in-chief in WWII when Finland managed to retain it's independence against the giant opponent. Mannerheim's time of birth is the 4th June 1867 (7.05 PM -2.00 EST) Louhisaari, Finland 60N35 21E49; Lagna 27 Libra 08; the Moon 21 Gemini 11. Mannerheim's Mars is debilitated in Cancer, but it has 8.0 rupas in shadbala, partly because it's in the 10th house and therefore has digbala. So we cannot say this Mars is much dignified, but does it have strength to do good or does it only have strength? Thanks in advance, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dear Wendy, thank you for the fast answer. Yes, Saturn must obviously have much to do with this. So you mean that without help from exalted Saturn, debilitated Mars alone would not have been able to function so successfully in the battlefield despite of it's overall strength? And the eight house as the battlefield, thanks for reminding me of that. But what I'm thinking is when you said that the planet in exaltation has strenght to do good, so does any strong planet have strength to do good, or does it need to have especially Uchcha Bala kind of strength? Best Wishes, Sari - Wendy Vasicek jyotish-vidya Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:33 PM Re: The strength to do good Dear Sari, Mannerheim had the help of exalted 4th/5th lord Saturn (a yogakaraka for this Ascendant) to lift him up to a high position. This Saturn aspects Mars in 10th, as well as lagnesh Venus, from lagna. As we know, Saturn has the power to make one a leader. Interesting to note that, in the planetary hierarchy, Mars is the commander in chief. Also interesting that Mars nakshatra lord (Mercury) joins Sun in 8th house of battles, (battle) forts etc.. Thank you for offering this interesting chart - it's well worth studying in more depth. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dear Sari, I cannot give you a definitive answer to this question. There are no generic answers that will apply to every chart...the good that any planet can bring depends on many things i.e. exaltation, conjunction, nakshatra, overall strength, lordship, and so forth. Each planet needs to be judged on its own merits and, once again, we have to exercise our own common-sense. For example the aspect of exalted yogakaraka Saturn cannot be compared to the aspect of strong F/M Saturn. Exaltation is only one of many avasthas (strengths). You can read more in BPHS http://jyotishvidya.com/ch45.htm In this chart, Mars is dispositor of lagna lord Venus (Saturn's dispositor), whilst exalted Saturn aspects them both. Sun in 8th is dispositor of Rahu and conjuncts Mars nakshatra lord...what does this tell you about this Man in context of military career...eighth is the house of battles. You also need to consider career from Chandr lagna. In this instance, 10th is owned by Jupiter who occupies sign of Saturn...did he have a career in politics as well as the military? I'm afraid my knowledge of Finland's history is less than nil, sorry... It would be good to have your own interpretation of the chart :-) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Sari M." <gerdapp <jyotish-vidya> Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:55 PM Re: The strength to do good Dear Wendy, thank you for the fast answer. Yes, Saturn must obviously have much to do with this. So you mean that without help from exalted Saturn, debilitated Mars alone would not have been able to function so successfully in the battlefield despite of it's overall strength? And the eight house as the battlefield, thanks for reminding me of that. But what I'm thinking is when you said that the planet in exaltation has strenght to do good, so does any strong planet have strength to do good, or does it need to have especially Uchcha Bala kind of strength? Best Wishes, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dear Sari and All, For the benefit of those who may be looking at this chart, I might add a little regarding aspects. For instance Mars in this chart, in sign of debilitation, is (obviously) not strong enough to produce his best. We can probably understand his condition a little better by imagining how well we would function if we were forced to live in the house of someone who totally dishonoured us...it's not hard to imagine how this continued feeling of worthlessness would bring out the worst in us...the planets are no different! However, with the support of a powerful ally, our strength and confidence would naturally grow...in proportion to the power and strength of our ally. Of course this principle works in reverse, and the aspect of a malefic planet can be extremely harmful. As we know, Saturn is normally hostile towards Mars. However, in this chart, YogaKaraka Saturn's temporary friendship (in 4th from Mars) has neutralised his natural animosity. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish <jyotish-vidya> Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:01 PM Re: The strength to do good Dear Sari, I cannot give you a definitive answer to this question. There are no generic answers that will apply to every chart...the good that any planet can bring depends on many things i.e. exaltation, conjunction, nakshatra, overall strength, lordship, and so forth. Each planet needs to be judged on its own merits and, once again, we have to exercise our own common-sense. For example the aspect of exalted yogakaraka Saturn cannot be compared to the aspect of strong F/M Saturn. Exaltation is only one of many avasthas (strengths). You can read more in BPHS http://jyotishvidya.com/ch45.htm In this chart, Mars is dispositor of lagna lord Venus (Saturn's dispositor), whilst exalted Saturn aspects them both. Sun in 8th is dispositor of Rahu and conjuncts Mars nakshatra lord...what does this tell you about this Man in context of military career...eighth is the house of battles. You also need to consider career from Chandr lagna. In this instance, 10th is owned by Jupiter who occupies sign of Saturn...did he have a career in politics as well as the military? I'm afraid my knowledge of Finland's history is less than nil, sorry... It would be good to have your own interpretation of the chart :-) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Sari M." <gerdapp <jyotish-vidya> Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:55 PM Re: The strength to do good Dear Wendy, thank you for the fast answer. Yes, Saturn must obviously have much to do with this. So you mean that without help from exalted Saturn, debilitated Mars alone would not have been able to function so successfully in the battlefield despite of it's overall strength? And the eight house as the battlefield, thanks for reminding me of that. But what I'm thinking is when you said that the planet in exaltation has strenght to do good, so does any strong planet have strength to do good, or does it need to have especially Uchcha Bala kind of strength? Best Wishes, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Wendy wrote: I cannot give you a definitive answer to this question. There are no generic answers that will apply to every chart...the good that any planet can bring depends on many things i.e. exaltation, conjunction, nakshatra, overall strength, lordship, and so forth. Each planet needs to be judged on its own merits and, once again, we have to exercise our own common-sense. Sari: That's what I anticipated, but I wondered if there would have been any general thumb rules... I don't know Mannerheim's life very thoroughly either, but there's a few things I can say. Mannerheim was born in an aristocratic Swedish-speakin family, which is easily seen from the exalted 4th house (roots) lord Saturn. When Mannerheim was born, the Mannerheim family (in the larger sense of the word) was one of the most reknown families in Finland. Note that Saturn is not very far from his exaltation degree. But Mannerheim's father was an artistic personality and lost money to gambling. The family split up, when father Mannerheim moved to Paris to live bohemian life there - debilitated Mars in the 10th house of father. The 10th house ruler Moon is in the 9th house of foreign countries and it's in Punarvasu nakshatra ruled by Jupiter, which in turn is with Ketu, the planet of eccentrity in the 5th house, the house of speculation. Mannerheim had Libra Lagna, which is a common Lagna for commanders and war lords (Hitler, Mussolini, Thatcher, Napoleon etc.). He was especially known for his exellent and aristocratic manners and dicipline - exalted Saturn again, aspected by Lagna lord Venus, the planet of refinement in her own nakshatra Bharani. In the time of WWII Mannerheim was running his Venus mahadasa and Venus is a very important planet in this chart; besides her being the Lagna lord, she rules exalted Saturn and Mercury and the Sun in Taurus. Mannerheim's Mercury happens to be excatly on Finland's Taurus Lagna and Mannerheim's Sun is not far from it either. I've noticed that many especially patriotic persons at least here in Finland have their Suns in Taurus. Mannerheim commanded the Finnish troops quite cool-headedly, which proved successful. Maybe debilitated Mars was even an asset here; he's in Cancer ruled by the cool, sattwic Moon and maybe debilitation here can mean that Mars' fiery temperament cannot express itself so readily, so sometimes it might be a good thing too. A funny thing is that Mannerheim had his Mars-mahadasa posthumously in the 60's, when he had been in grave over ten years, and that was the time of the radical left-wing youth, who disrespected the older generation that had been in war and therefore everything that Mannerheim represented. So this (temporary) debilitation of Mannerheim's fame and achievements came after Mannerheim's death, when he was running his Mars-dasa. Mannerheim was married when he was young, but the marriage splitted up in the beginning first decade of 20th century. Debilitated Mars is also the 7th house lord and in the 7th house we find Venus, which often tells about a not-so-faithful personality. There has been rumours about Mannerheim having been a homosexual, but I don't know how serious they are. But I didn't find anything about a family or marriage after this first one, so family (the 2nd house, another of Mars' houses here) or romantic life have obviously not been one of the strong parts of Mannerheim's life. Wendy wrote: For instance Mars in this chart, in sign of debilitation, is (obviously) not strong enough to produce his best. We can probably understand his condition a little better by imagining how well we would function if we were forced to live in the house of someone who totally dishonoured us...it's not hard to imagine how this continued feeling of worthlessness would bring out the worst in us...the planets are no different! However, with the support of a powerful ally, our strength and confidence would naturally grow...in proportion to the power and strength of our ally. Of course this principle works in reverse, and the aspect of a malefic planet can be extremely harmful. Sari: This was a good note and we don't know how much Mannerheim's confidence shattered in the time of hard decisions! But as a hard man (Saturn on Lagna) he hardly showed anything outside. Best, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Dear Sari, Many thanks for the Bio, I look forward to going through it thoroughly :-) You Wrote: //This was a good note and we don't know how much Mannerheim's confidence shattered in the time of hard decisions! But as a hard man (Saturn on Lagna) he hardly showed anything outside.// I think you might have misunderstood my meaning in the (below) analogy. I Wrote: //For instance Mars in this chart, in sign of debilitation, is (obviously) not strong enough to produce his best. We can probably understand his condition a little better by imagining how well we would function if we were forced to live in the house of someone who totally dishonoured us...it's not hard to imagine how this continued feeling of worthlessness would bring out the worst in us...the planets are no different! However, with the support of a powerful ally, our strength and confidence would naturally grow.// I wasn't referring to Mannerheim's own confidence here - rather explaining the weakness of a debilitated planet (any planet) and how, being stripped of it's dignity, it will lack sufficient confidence to perform at it's best. For Mannerheim himself, 4th lord (confidence and belief) exalted in lagna, indicates an extremely confident nature and powerful conviction... I was simply referring to the (lack) of confidence of a debilitated planet - any planet, in anyone's chart - not to Mannerheim himself :-) You Wrote: //There has been rumours about Mannerheim having been a homosexual, but I don't know how serious they are.// Consider Venus in sign of Mars aspected by Saturn (who, in turn, is aspected by 7th lord Mars (dispositor of Venus). Also 12th lord (bed pleasures) is combust Rahu's dispositor (Sun) in 8th house... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Sari M." <gerdapp <jyotish-vidya> Monday, January 23, 2006 9:30 PM Re: The strength to do good Wendy wrote: I cannot give you a definitive answer to this question. There are no generic answers that will apply to every chart...the good that any planet can bring depends on many things i.e. exaltation, conjunction, nakshatra, overall strength, lordship, and so forth. Each planet needs to be judged on its own merits and, once again, we have to exercise our own common-sense. Sari: That's what I anticipated, but I wondered if there would have been any general thumb rules... I don't know Mannerheim's life very thoroughly either, but there's a few things I can say. Mannerheim was born in an aristocratic Swedish-speakin family, which is easily seen from the exalted 4th house (roots) lord Saturn. When Mannerheim was born, the Mannerheim family (in the larger sense of the word) was one of the most reknown families in Finland. Note that Saturn is not very far from his exaltation degree. But Mannerheim's father was an artistic personality and lost money to gambling. The family split up, when father Mannerheim moved to Paris to live bohemian life there - debilitated Mars in the 10th house of father. The 10th house ruler Moon is in the 9th house of foreign countries and it's in Punarvasu nakshatra ruled by Jupiter, which in turn is with Ketu, the planet of eccentrity in the 5th house, the house of speculation. Mannerheim had Libra Lagna, which is a common Lagna for commanders and war lords (Hitler, Mussolini, Thatcher, Napoleon etc.). He was especially known for his exellent and aristocratic manners and dicipline - exalted Saturn again, aspected by Lagna lord Venus, the planet of refinement in her own nakshatra Bharani. In the time of WWII Mannerheim was running his Venus mahadasa and Venus is a very important planet in this chart; besides her being the Lagna lord, she rules exalted Saturn and Mercury and the Sun in Taurus. Mannerheim's Mercury happens to be excatly on Finland's Taurus Lagna and Mannerheim's Sun is not far from it either. I've noticed that many especially patriotic persons at least here in Finland have their Suns in Taurus. Mannerheim commanded the Finnish troops quite cool-headedly, which proved successful. Maybe debilitated Mars was even an asset here; he's in Cancer ruled by the cool, sattwic Moon and maybe debilitation here can mean that Mars' fiery temperament cannot express itself so readily, so sometimes it might be a good thing too. A funny thing is that Mannerheim had his Mars-mahadasa posthumously in the 60's, when he had been in grave over ten years, and that was the time of the radical left-wing youth, who disrespected the older generation that had been in war and therefore everything that Mannerheim represented. So this (temporary) debilitation of Mannerheim's fame and achievements came after Mannerheim's death, when he was running his Mars-dasa. Mannerheim was married when he was young, but the marriage splitted up in the beginning first decade of 20th century. Debilitated Mars is also the 7th house lord and in the 7th house we find Venus, which often tells about a not-so-faithful personality. There has been rumours about Mannerheim having been a homosexual, but I don't know how serious they are. But I didn't find anything about a family or marriage after this first one, so family (the 2nd house, another of Mars' houses here) or romantic life have obviously not been one of the strong parts of Mannerheim's life. Wendy wrote: For instance Mars in this chart, in sign of debilitation, is (obviously) not strong enough to produce his best. We can probably understand his condition a little better by imagining how well we would function if we were forced to live in the house of someone who totally dishonoured us...it's not hard to imagine how this continued feeling of worthlessness would bring out the worst in us...the planets are no different! However, with the support of a powerful ally, our strength and confidence would naturally grow...in proportion to the power and strength of our ally. Of course this principle works in reverse, and the aspect of a malefic planet can be extremely harmful. Sari: This was a good note and we don't know how much Mannerheim's confidence shattered in the time of hard decisions! But as a hard man (Saturn on Lagna) he hardly showed anything outside. Best, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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