Guest guest Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Dear KanupriyaJi and other learned members, I have a few queries. I am not looking for detailed answers to each one of them but pointers in the right direction would be helpful. 1. How can we know past life from the horoscope. ( 5th house ? - previous karma ). what divisional charts to study in this regard and any other aspects. 2. I read somewhere that the Mokasha houses are (4,8,12). I have 2 lords exalted and one in own sign out of these three houses... what does this mean...liberation :-) 3. we recommend remedial measures for certain curses, bad yogas etc.. which may be indicated in one's horoscope. In many cases it is mentioned to pray your gram devata or kula devata which one has neglected in this birth.. can anyone please explain this..how one knows who is his gram devta?.. If it sounds foolish please bear with me for my ignorance and enlighten me. 4. Moon is considered as a natural benefic in shukla paksha(waxing). so can a waxing moon be benefic inspite of being lord of either 6,8,12 houses and also if it is in its own sign cancer or exalted and strong in shad bala, assuming it is not afflicted otherwise. would this mean that the significations of the dusthana house moon rules would become positive? Thanks and regards Hari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 The 5th house is known as the Purva Punya which means from this one can see the blessings we carried due to our past good karma.Benefic planets placed here or yogas formed are these blessings.The past mistakes can be seen from the Bhadhakesh or the placement of Bhadhakesh.Planets placed in Bhadak sthan too will indicate something.The D-60 Shashtyamsa chart indicates the past karma. > > 2. I read somewhere that the Mokasha houses are (4,8,12). I have 2 > lords exalted and one in own sign out of these three houses... what > does this mean...liberation :-) You need to further study what these planet signify? Look at the lordship too.Planets placed in the Moksha trikona are usually conducive to spiritual growth but you need to look further and see the natural karakattwa of the planet and what its doing in the chart. > > 3. we recommend remedial measures for certain curses, bad yogas etc.. > which may be indicated in one's horoscope. In many cases it is > mentioned to pray your gram devata or kula devata which one has > neglected in this birth.. can anyone please explain this..how one > knows who is his gram devta?.. If it sounds foolish please bear with > me for my ignorance and enlighten me. If you read the book 'Vedic Remedies in Astrology' by Pt.Sanjay Rath alot of these questions will be answered.The gram devta can be seen from the D-20 Vimshamsha chart.Look at the 4th house in this chart and the strongest planet influencing this house will indicate this deity.> > 4. Moon is considered as a natural benefic in shukla paksha(waxing). > so can a waxing moon be benefic inspite of being lord of either > 6,8,12 houses and also if it is in its own sign cancer or exalted and > strong in shad bala, assuming it is not afflicted otherwise. would > this mean that the significations of the dusthana house moon rules > would become positive? The Moon's transit gives us something very important, the Tithis.Even in the two Pakshas the tithis can be devided into auspicious and inauspicious.Read more on Tithis to know about this.Just because its Moon you cannot leave out the other rules.If a Dusthan lord is strong and placed in Kendras it can cause problems.The other rules will apply as usual but to understand the nature of the Moon in the chart understand theTithi. Hope this helps. Kanupriya.> > Thanks and regards > Hari -- _____________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Dear KanupriyaJi, Thanks once again for the answers. please accept my gratitude for the guidance. my responses are marked with >> > Om Dakshinamurtaye Namah Dear Hari, Answers below: > Dear KanupriyaJi and other learned members, > > I have a few queries. I am not looking for detailed answers to each > one of them but pointers in the right direction would be helpful. > > 1. How can we know past life from the horoscope. ( 5th house ? - > previous karma ). what divisional charts to study in this regard and > any other aspects. The 5th house is known as the Purva Punya which means from this one can see the blessings we carried due to our past good karma.Benefic planets placed here or yogas formed are these blessings.The past mistakes can be seen from the Bhadhakesh or the placement of Bhadhakesh.Planets placed in Bhadak sthan too will indicate something.The D-60 Shashtyamsa chart indicates the past karma. >> each lagn has different sign in 5th house( having different qualities - fire,earth etc. and fixed,dual etc. ). can one draw some information from these in regard to previous birth of the individual. for eg like if there is aries sign ruled by mars, can we say that the person was commanding in nature in previous birth.... can we think along these lines.. I have read the articles on bhadhesk by Sanjayji and trying to grasp it. > > 2. I read somewhere that the Mokasha houses are (4,8,12). I have 2 > lords exalted and one in own sign out of these three houses... what > does this mean...liberation :-) You need to further study what these planet signify? Look at the lordship too.Planets placed in the Moksha trikona are usually conducive to spiritual growth but you need to look further and see the natural karakattwa of the planet and what its doing in the chart. > > 3. we recommend remedial measures for certain curses, bad yogas etc.. > which may be indicated in one's horoscope. In many cases it is > mentioned to pray your gram devata or kula devata which one has > neglected in this birth.. can anyone please explain this..how one > knows who is his gram devta?.. If it sounds foolish please bear with > me for my ignorance and enlighten me. If you read the book 'Vedic Remedies in Astrology' by Pt.Sanjay Rath alot of these questions will be answered.The gram devta can be seen from the D-20 Vimshamsha chart.Look at the 4th house in this chart and the strongest planet influencing this house will indicate this deity. >> Thanks for pointing out the book. I will look out for it. please see at the end of this mail. something that comes to my mind. > > 4. Moon is considered as a natural benefic in shukla paksha (waxing). > so can a waxing moon be benefic inspite of being lord of either > 6,8,12 houses and also if it is in its own sign cancer or exalted and > strong in shad bala, assuming it is not afflicted otherwise. would > this mean that the significations of the dusthana house moon rules > would become positive? The Moon's transit gives us something very important, the Tithis.Even in the two Pakshas the tithis can be devided into auspicious and inauspicious.Read more on Tithis to know about this.Just because its Moon you cannot leave out the other rules.If a Dusthan lord is strong and placed in Kendras it can cause problems.The other rules will apply as usual but to understand the nature of the Moon in the chart understand theTithi. >>please allow me to be a little bit more specific to understand this concept better. Let us say we have moon in 8th house in its own sign cancer in pushya nakshtra and it is "waxing" moon and tithi is chaturdashi. it is strong in shad bala, vimsopaka bala, dignity etc. Also assuming it is well conjuncted or aspected, hence bereft of any blemishes, what result can be expected of such moon in a natal horoscope?. Hope this helps. Kanupriya. > > Thanks and regards > Hari -- I have one small humble suggestion for the benefit of all and propagation of Jyotish. Drawing an analogy from my own professional field(software engineering), we have what we call a "learning path" - a blueprint or a roadmap for learning at various levels - beginner, intermediate, advanced. Is it possible to chart out such a roadmap for learning at various levels in Jyotish by learned gurus like you and others - the compilation of most popular and quality books and any other resources to be read for each level. This would really help a beginner who tries to find the path which already has been tread upon by learned gurus. Maybe one can then maintain this as a thread whose link can be then given in the files section for new members. --- Kind regards and thanks Hari jupiterwisdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Dear Hari, I will answer only one point, in brief, and that is Surya and Chandra do not attract Ashtamesh dosha. that is not the case with other house ownerships for them. Chandrashekhar hari wrote: Dear KanupriyaJi and other learned members, I have a few queries. I am not looking for detailed answers to each one of them but pointers in the right direction would be helpful. 1. How can we know past life from the horoscope. ( 5th house ? - previous karma ). what divisional charts to study in this regard and any other aspects. 2. I read somewhere that the Mokasha houses are (4,8,12). I have 2 lords exalted and one in own sign out of these three houses... what does this mean...liberation :-) 3. we recommend remedial measures for certain curses, bad yogas etc.. which may be indicated in one's horoscope. In many cases it is mentioned to pray your gram devata or kula devata which one has neglected in this birth.. can anyone please explain this..how one knows who is his gram devta?.. If it sounds foolish please bear with me for my ignorance and enlighten me. 4. Moon is considered as a natural benefic in shukla paksha(waxing). so can a waxing moon be benefic inspite of being lord of either 6,8,12 houses and also if it is in its own sign cancer or exalted and strong in shad bala, assuming it is not afflicted otherwise. would this mean that the significations of the dusthana house moon rules would become positive? Thanks and regards Hari jupiterwisdom ~ om tat sat ~ Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Om Dakshinamurtaye Namah Dear Hari, The D-60 would show you more about the native's nature, appearance etc in the previous life.Ths 5th house will indicate the karma does'nt necessary mean the physical or other qualtities.I would personally not conclude about the results of any planet unless I see the whole chart as I believe the chart should always be seen in totality.Howver, Moon in the 8th house is in Marana Karaka Sthan but at the same time it is strong so likely atleast the mental state of the native will be good.Perhaps the mother will over come the problems that came her way or the sickness might not be life threatening but do look at the whole chart before concluding.As for the books I hope that other Gurus on the list will guide you better but I personally began with Brihat parashar hora shastra and Saravali.I still think that what you learn here from teachers will be most impoartant.I learnt alot from my Guru and all the credit goes there for what ever I know. Best Wishes, Kanupriya. - hari <jupiterwisdom [Om Krishna Guru] Re: guidance please Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:07:42 -0000 > > > Dear KanupriyaJi, > > Thanks once again for the answers. please accept my gratitude for the > guidance. my responses are marked with >> > > > > Om Dakshinamurtaye Namah > Dear Hari, > Answers below: > > Dear KanupriyaJi and other learned members, I have a few queries. > > I am not looking for detailed answers to each one of them but > > pointers in the right direction would be helpful. 1. How can we > > know past life from the horoscope. ( 5th house ? - previous karma > > ). what divisional charts to study in this regard > and > > any other aspects. > > The 5th house is known as the Purva Punya which means from this one > can see the blessings we carried due to our past good karma.Benefic > planets placed here or yogas formed are these blessings.The past > mistakes can be seen from the Bhadhakesh or the placement of > Bhadhakesh.Planets placed in Bhadak sthan too will indicate > something.The D-60 Shashtyamsa chart indicates the past karma. > > >> each lagn has different sign in 5th house( having different > qualities - fire,earth etc. and fixed,dual etc. ). can one draw some > information from these in regard to previous birth of the individual. > for eg like if there is aries sign ruled by mars, can we say that the > person was commanding in nature in previous birth.... can we think > along these lines.. I have read the articles on bhadhesk by Sanjayji > and trying to grasp it. > > > > > > 2. I read somewhere that the Mokasha houses are (4,8,12). I have > > 2 lords exalted and one in own sign out of these three houses... > > what does this mean...liberation :-) > > You need to further study what these planet signify? Look at the > lordship too.Planets placed in the Moksha trikona are usually > conducive to spiritual growth but you need to look further and see > the natural karakattwa of the planet and what its doing in the chart. > > > > > 3. we recommend remedial measures for certain curses, bad yogas > etc.. > > which may be indicated in one's horoscope. In many cases it is > > mentioned to pray your gram devata or kula devata which one has > > neglected in this birth.. can anyone please explain this..how one > > knows who is his gram devta?.. If it sounds foolish please bear > with > > me for my ignorance and enlighten me. > > If you read the book 'Vedic Remedies in Astrology' by Pt.Sanjay Rath > alot of these questions will be answered.The gram devta can be seen > from the D-20 Vimshamsha chart.Look at the 4th house in this chart > and the strongest planet influencing this house will indicate this > deity. > > >> Thanks for pointing out the book. I will look out for it. please > see at the end of this mail. > something that comes to my mind. > > > > > 4. Moon is considered as a natural benefic in shukla paksha > (waxing). > > so can a waxing moon be benefic inspite of being lord of either > > 6,8,12 houses and also if it is in its own sign cancer or exalted > and > > strong in shad bala, assuming it is not afflicted otherwise. > > would this mean that the significations of the dusthana house > > moon rules would become positive? > > The Moon's transit gives us something very important, the > Tithis.Even in the two Pakshas the tithis can be devided into > auspicious and inauspicious.Read more on Tithis to know about > this.Just because its Moon you cannot leave out the other rules.If a > Dusthan lord is strong and placed in Kendras it can cause > problems.The other rules will apply as usual but to understand the > nature of the Moon in the chart understand theTithi. > > >> please allow me to be a little bit more specific to understand this > concept better. Let us say we have moon in 8th house in its own sign > cancer in pushya nakshtra and it is "waxing" moon and tithi is > chaturdashi. it is strong in shad bala, vimsopaka bala, dignity etc. > Also assuming it is well conjuncted or aspected, hence bereft of any > blemishes, what result can be expected of such moon in a natal > horoscope?. > > > Hope this helps. > > Kanupriya. > > > > Thanks and regards Hari > > -- > I have one small humble suggestion for the benefit of all and > propagation of Jyotish. Drawing an analogy from my own professional > field(software engineering), we have what we call a "learning path" - > a blueprint or a roadmap for learning at various levels - beginner, > intermediate, advanced. Is it possible to chart out such a roadmap > for learning at various levels in Jyotish by learned gurus like you > and others - the compilation of most popular and quality books and > any other resources to be read for each level. This would really help > a beginner who tries to find the path which already has been tread > upon by learned gurus. Maybe one can then maintain this as a thread > whose link can be then given in the files section for new members. > --- > > Kind regards and thanks > Hari > jupiterwisdom > -- _____________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Dear KanupriyaJi, Thanks for the answers. It has been a little while I have been reading astrology and familiar with the major principles of astrology although I am yet to discover the subtle nuances of Jyotish in special conditions and some specific methods for prediction( for eg usage of different dasas in certain conditions) for which, as you say a guru or guidance is essential. I am aware of the guru shishya parampara in SJC and would have loved to be under someone for guidance but I do not get enough time to fully devote to astrology because of professional demands. If there is such a method that as and when I get time and have doubts, I can contact learned Guru, then I would love to be under someone. Right now I am reading at my own pace as time permits. Can you please tell me why did you applied the naryana dasa in AB chart. if you any material related to it in digital format, I would be grateful if you can send it to me. Also you mentioned Badhakesh in your previous post. can you please tell me the effects of Badhakesh if it is also the Atmakarka.?( I recently read a post related to badhakesh and AL) With regards and thanks Hari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Om Dakshinamurtaye Namah Dear Hari, There can be two things you can consider when you want to choose a Dasa: 1.See what applies to the chart.Any special conditions like Lagna lord in the 7th house,Moon being stronger than the lagna etc and choose the Dasa accordingly. 2.You can choose what works best for you as an astrologer.Sanjay Guruji taught that usually when the Moon is strong the Astrologer will work better with Vimsottari Dasa and when Jupiter is strong the astrologer will work better with Narayan Dasa. I have Jupiter in lagna and I usually do not predict unless the Narayan dasa confirms what I conclude.I do use Vimsottari Dasa as well but I tend to be faster with Narayan Dasa.I had used Narayan Dasa as this is the topic I chose for the Bombay Conference.I was illustrating how one can time financial gains with the use of Narayan Dasa.AB's chart would surely make a good example as he has seen alot of ups and downs so I decided to take his chart. As for the Guru fill the form on the SJC website and request the Gurus and if it is time I am sure you will get a Guru. Best Wishes, Kanupriya. - hari <jupiterwisdom [Om Krishna Guru] Re: guidance please Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:55:00 -0000 > > > Dear KanupriyaJi, > > Thanks for the answers. It has been a little while I have been > reading astrology and familiar with the major principles of astrology > although I am yet to discover the subtle nuances of Jyotish in > special conditions and some specific methods for prediction( for eg > usage of different dasas in certain conditions) for which, as you say > a guru or guidance is essential. > > I am aware of the guru shishya parampara in SJC and would have loved > to be under someone for guidance but I do not get enough time to > fully devote to astrology because of professional demands. If there > is such a method that as and when I get time and have doubts, I can > contact learned Guru, then I would love to be under someone. Right > now I am reading at my own pace as time permits. > > Can you please tell me why did you applied the naryana dasa in AB > chart. if you any material related to it in digital format, I would > be grateful if you can send it to me. > > Also you mentioned Badhakesh in your previous post. can you please > tell me the effects of Badhakesh if it is also the Atmakarka.?( I > recently read a post related to badhakesh and AL) > > With regards and thanks > Hari -- _____________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Dear Kanupriyaji, I apologize for the delay in replying -had been a bit busy. Once again, thanks for the answers. I indeed agree with you that when the time comes for anything, it materializes itself. This is the crux of astrology.. everything that happens is bound with time. I looked up the Jyotish Guru's section of SJC website and read through the profiles of most of them. what I found interesting was their birth information( alongwith astrological sketch of some of them). For the keen reader, it provides some insights as to what goes on in making of a seasoned astrologer. A very interesting case which I came across was of Manpreet gambhir who was initiated in Jyotish after sanjayji saw his chart!. This made me ponder whether the birth chart can be used to predict the native success with astrology. I think that the astrological information can also be used to know the compatibility in terms of mental wavelength of student with guru. with kind regards Hari , "Kanupriya Singh" <kanupriya9@l...> wrote: > Om Dakshinamurtaye Namah > Dear Hari, > There can be two things you can consider when you want to choose a Dasa: > 1.See what applies to the chart.Any special conditions like Lagna lord in the 7th house,Moon being stronger than the lagna etc and choose the Dasa accordingly. > 2.You can choose what works best for you as an astrologer.Sanjay Guruji taught that usually when the Moon is strong the Astrologer will work better with Vimsottari Dasa and when Jupiter is strong the astrologer will work better with Narayan Dasa. > I have Jupiter in lagna and I usually do not predict unless the Narayan dasa confirms what I conclude.I do use Vimsottari Dasa as well but I tend to be faster with Narayan Dasa.I had used Narayan Dasa as this is the topic I chose for the Bombay Conference.I was illustrating how one can time financial gains with the use of Narayan Dasa.AB's chart would surely make a good example as he has seen alot of ups and downs so I decided to take his chart. > As for the Guru fill the form on the SJC website and request the Gurus and if it is time I am sure you will get a Guru. > > Best Wishes, > Kanupriya. > - > hari <jupiterwisdom@g...> > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: guidance please > Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:55:00 -0000 > > > > > > > Dear KanupriyaJi, > > > > Thanks for the answers. It has been a little while I have been > > reading astrology and familiar with the major principles of astrology > > although I am yet to discover the subtle nuances of Jyotish in > > special conditions and some specific methods for prediction( for eg > > usage of different dasas in certain conditions) for which, as you say > > a guru or guidance is essential. > > > > I am aware of the guru shishya parampara in SJC and would have loved > > to be under someone for guidance but I do not get enough time to > > fully devote to astrology because of professional demands. If there > > is such a method that as and when I get time and have doubts, I can > > contact learned Guru, then I would love to be under someone. Right > > now I am reading at my own pace as time permits. > > > > Can you please tell me why did you applied the naryana dasa in AB > > chart. if you any material related to it in digital format, I would > > be grateful if you can send it to me. > > > > Also you mentioned Badhakesh in your previous post. can you please > > tell me the effects of Badhakesh if it is also the Atmakarka.?( I > > recently read a post related to badhakesh and AL) > > > > With regards and thanks > > Hari > > -- > _____________ > NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. > http://datingsearch.lycos.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Om Dakshinamurtaye Namah Dear Hari, For a person to be a good astrologer one combination is the association of the 11th house or lord with the Atma Karak.To look at one's relationship with the Guru there are a few things one can look at in both the charts: 1.The BK of the native should conect to the Lagna or Navamsha lagna of the native. 2.The AK's of both the Guru and the Shishya should be placed well from each other in thier charts. 3.Further more, the A9 and the A5 can be seen in charts to study the kind of a relationship one has with thier students or Gurus. Best Wishes, Kanupriya. - hari <jupiterwisdom [Om Krishna Guru] Re: guidance please Sun, 20 Mar 2005 19:45:30 -0000 > > > > Dear Kanupriyaji, > > I apologize for the delay in replying -had been a bit busy. Once > again, thanks for the answers. I indeed agree with you that when the > time comes for anything, it materializes itself. This is the crux of > astrology.. everything that happens is bound with time. > > I looked up the Jyotish Guru's section of SJC website and read > through the profiles of most of them. what I found interesting was > their birth information( alongwith astrological sketch of some of > them). For the keen reader, it provides some insights as to what goes > on in making of a seasoned astrologer. A very interesting case which > I came across was of Manpreet gambhir who was initiated in Jyotish > after sanjayji saw his chart!. > > This made me ponder whether the birth chart can be used to predict > the native success with astrology. > > I think that the astrological information can also be used to know > the compatibility in terms of mental wavelength of student with guru. > > with kind regards > Hari > > , "Kanupriya Singh" > <kanupriya9@l...> wrote: > > Om Dakshinamurtaye Namah > > Dear Hari, > > There can be two things you can consider when you want to > choose a Dasa: > > 1.See what applies to the chart.Any special conditions like Lagna > lord in the 7th house,Moon being stronger than the lagna etc and > choose the Dasa accordingly. > > 2.You can choose what works best for you as an astrologer.Sanjay > Guruji taught that usually when the Moon is strong the Astrologer > will work better with Vimsottari Dasa and when Jupiter is strong the > astrologer will work better with Narayan Dasa. > > I have Jupiter in lagna and I usually do not predict unless the > Narayan dasa confirms what I conclude.I do use Vimsottari Dasa as > well but I tend to be faster with Narayan Dasa.I had used Narayan > Dasa as this is the topic I chose for the Bombay Conference.I was > illustrating how one can time financial gains with the use of Narayan > Dasa.AB's chart would surely make a good example as he has seen alot > of ups and downs so I decided to take his chart. > > As for the Guru fill the form on the SJC website and request the > Gurus and if it is time I am sure you will get a Guru. > > > > Best Wishes, > > Kanupriya. - > > hari <jupiterwisdom@g...> > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: guidance please > > Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:55:00 -0000 > > > > > > > Dear KanupriyaJi, > > > > Thanks for the answers. It has been a little while I have been > > > reading astrology and familiar with the major principles of > astrology > > > although I am yet to discover the subtle nuances of Jyotish in > > > special conditions and some specific methods for prediction( for > eg > > > usage of different dasas in certain conditions) for which, as you > say > > > a guru or guidance is essential. > > > > I am aware of the guru shishya parampara in SJC and would have > loved > > > to be under someone for guidance but I do not get enough time to > > > fully devote to astrology because of professional demands. If > there > > > is such a method that as and when I get time and have doubts, I > can > > > contact learned Guru, then I would love to be under someone. > Right > > > now I am reading at my own pace as time permits. > > > > Can you please tell me why did you applied the naryana dasa in AB > > > chart. if you any material related to it in digital format, I > would > > > be grateful if you can send it to me. > > > > Also you mentioned Badhakesh in your previous post. can you please > > > tell me the effects of Badhakesh if it is also the Atmakarka.?( I > > > recently read a post related to badhakesh and AL) > > > > With regards and thanks > > > Hari > > > > -- _____________ > > NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating > sites at once. > > http://datingsearch.lycos.com -- _____________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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