Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Dear Visti and Annick, Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in the lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in the Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation – 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), to support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = 432000 days "one –tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali-yuga, but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on the other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be used. Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords (abdadhipathi and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr Raman (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and Bhava Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year of 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a calculation involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of the number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the Surya Siddhanta. This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both backed up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her views or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our mind. The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find it effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but Mantreswara was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. Very best wishes Graham , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH prakalpyaaH||" > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next arrives at the > same position. This is considered as one year| This is also considered as > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the days are also > calculated|| > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find the year. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or <http://astrovisti.com> > http://astrovisti.com > > *** > > _____ > > [] On > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd be more than > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this one in 360 > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand clearly this > question. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Annick > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > > > > > > > > Vedic > </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev lqgA> > > Vedic > </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU 4fmYDwY > rEv2UNA> astrology > > Free > </gads? t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz TK1sUgW > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > Sjc > </gads? t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- c1XWsVsDlQ> > > Jyotish > </gads? t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ wPEOiQ> _____ > > > > > > * Visit your group " > <> " on the web. > > * > > <? subject=Un> > > * > <> Terms of Service. > > > > _____ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Graham, Namaskar 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much similar to the current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the year reconned by humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar in use for the particular place, and for that particular time period it was the Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian Calendar. Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of Solar year here in use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by Mantresvara. I have not seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the dasa length other than this. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com *** [] On Behalf Of Graham Fox 06 March 2006 18:17 [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? Dear Visti and Annick, Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in the lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in the Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation - 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), to support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali-yuga, but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on the other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be used. Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords (abdadhipathi and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr Raman (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and Bhava Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year of 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a calculation involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of the number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the Surya Siddhanta. This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both backed up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her views or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our mind. The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find it effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but Mantreswara was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. Very best wishes Graham , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH prakalpyaaH||" > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next arrives at the > same position. This is considered as one year| This is also considered as > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the days are also > calculated|| > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find the year. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or <http://astrovisti.com> > http://astrovisti.com > > *** > > _____ > > [] On > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd be more than > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this one in 360 > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand clearly this > question. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Annick > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > > > > > > > > Vedic > </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev lqgA> > > Vedic > </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU 4fmYDwY > rEv2UNA> astrology > > Free > </gads? t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz TK1sUgW > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > Sjc > </gads? t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- c1XWsVsDlQ> > > Jyotish > </gads? t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ wPEOiQ> _____ > > > > > > * Visit your group " > <> " on the web. > > * > > <? subject=Un> > > * > <> Terms of Service. > > > > _____ > ~ om tat sat ~ Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Dear Visti, I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year length in the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year is the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical agricultural etc purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, ie. 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation to that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 day das year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial year, used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and in other ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana dina" is an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the basic unit of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You may very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. But it is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be calculated based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only reference by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations is in the section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. I respect your point of view and your experience, and I appreciate that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, but some experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be dismissed too lightly. Best wishes Graham , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > Dear Graham, Namaskar > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much similar to the > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the year reconned by > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar in use for the > particular place, and for that particular time period it was the > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian Calendar. > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of Solar year here in > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by Mantresvara. I have not > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the dasa length other > than this. > Best wishes, > *** > Visti Larsen > For services and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > *** > > > [] On > Behalf Of Graham Fox > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > Dear Visti and Annick, > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation of > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in the > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in the > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation - > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), to > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali-yuga, > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on the > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be used. > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords (abdadhipathi > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr Raman > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and Bhava > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year of > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a calculation > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of the > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the > Surya Siddhanta. > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both backed > up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her views > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our mind. > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find it > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think Visti's > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but Mantreswara > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > Very best wishes > Graham > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next > arrives at the > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is also > considered as > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the days > are also > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find > the year. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > *** > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > <http://astrovisti.com> > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > *** > > > > _____ > > > > > [] On > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd be > more than > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this one > in 360 > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand > clearly this > > question. > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said > that the > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > </gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > lqgA> > > > > Vedic > > </gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > 4fmYDwY > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > Free > > </gads? > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > TK1sUgW > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > Sjc > > </gads? > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > Jyotish > > </gads? > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > <> " on the web. > > > > * > > > > <? > subject=Un> > > > > * > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > Links > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Dear Graham and Visti, I'd be happy if what I'm living could throw some light about dasas : I got terribly ill (a chronicle and painful disease) on the very end of July (30-31) 2005, suffering from fibromyalgia. Never before was I in so bad a condition. With the VD 365 days, Rahu Mahadasa will begin on March 27 th 2006 ; but with VD 360 days, the situation becomes clear before this date ! That is the reason of my query. In VD 360, Rahu Mahadasa began on June 23 th, 2005. In my natal chart, Jupiter, lord of the 6 th and conjunct Venus, Lagnesh - both being in the 8 th house - is aspecting Rahu in the 4 th. Rahu was - and still is - in the 6 th in gochara. So, until now, for me, VD 360 days is speaking loud :-) I stay open to any further analysis of this interesting topic and shall try to elaborate further in the following days. Warm regards, Annick PS : data : Lyons (France) - July 23 th 1953 - 1.27 p.m. Dear Visti and Annick,Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in the lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in the Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation – 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), to support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = 432000 days "one –tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali-yuga, but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions).Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on the other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be used. Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords (abdadhipathi and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr Raman (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and Bhava Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni-solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year of 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a calculation involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of the number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the Surya Siddhanta.This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both backed up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her views or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our mind. The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find it effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but Mantreswara was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question.Very best wishesGraham, "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote:>> ||Hare Rama Krsna||> > Dear Annick, Namaskar> > We at SJC follow those who know better.> > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4||> > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH prakalpyaaH||"> > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next arrives at the> same position. This is considered as one year| This is also considered as> one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the days are also> calculated||> > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find the year.> > Best wishes,> > ***> > Visti Larsen> > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or <http://astrovisti.com>>'>http://astrovisti.com>> http://astrovisti.com> > ***> > _____ > > [] On> Behalf Of Annick Bidreman> 05 March 2006 13:25> > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa> > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd be more than> happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this one in 360> days, arguing occult reasons, and so on.> > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand clearly this> question.> > > > Thanks in advance.> > > > Warm regards,> > > > Annick> > > > ~ om tat sat ~> Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna'> (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the> human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > > > > > > > > Vedic> </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr> ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDevlqgA> > > Vedic> </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro> logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU4fmYDwY> rEv2UNA> astrology > > Free> </gads?t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+> astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5NzTK1sUgW> PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > Sjc> </gads?t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free> +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt-c1XWsVsDlQ> > > Jyotish> </gads?t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=> Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJwPEOiQ>> > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > * Visit your group "> <> " on the web.> > * > > <?subject=Un> > > * > <> Terms of Service. > > > > _____> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Annick, Namaskar Do you still have the analysis i made of your chart initially? Please give a good reason for Rahu being the culprit for your problems. Best wishes, *** 10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Visti Larsen 10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com color:navy"> or http://astrovisti.com *** font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold"> [] On Behalf Of Annick Bidreman 06 March 2006 20:06 Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Dear Graham and Visti, 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">I'd be happy if what I'm living could throw some light about dasas : I got terribly ill (a chronicle and painful disease) on the very end of July (30-31) 2005, suffering from fibromyalgia. Never before was I in so bad a condition. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">With the VD 365 days, Rahu Mahadasa will begin on March 27 th 2006 ; but with VD 360 days, the situation becomes clear before this date ! That is the reason of my query. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">In VD 360, Rahu Mahadasa began on June 23 th, 2005. In my natal chart, Jupiter, lord of the 6 th and conjunct Venus, Lagnesh - both being in the 8 th house - is aspecting Rahu in the 4 th. Rahu was - and still is - in the 6 th in gochara. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">So, until now, for me, VD 360 days is speaking loud :-) 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">I stay open to any further analysis of this interesting topic and shall try to elaborate further in the following days. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Warm regards, 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Annick 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">PS : data : Lyons (France) - July 23 th 1953 - 1.27 p.m. margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> 12.0pt"> Dear Visti and Annick, Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in the lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in the Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation – 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), to support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = 432000 days "one –tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali-yuga, but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on the other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be used. Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords (abdadhipathi and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr Raman (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and Bhava Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year of 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a calculation involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of the number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the Surya Siddhanta. This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both backed up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her views or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our mind. The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find it effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but Mantreswara was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. Very best wishes Graham , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH prakalpyaaH||" > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next arrives at the > same position. This is considered as one year| This is also considered as > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the days are also > calculated|| > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find the year. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or <http://astrovisti.com> > http://astrovisti.com > > *** > > _____ > > [] On > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd be more than > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this one in 360 > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand clearly this > question. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Annick > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > > > > > > > > Vedic > </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev lqgA> > > Vedic > </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU 4fmYDwY > rEv2UNA> astrology > > Free > </gads? t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz TK1sUgW > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > Sjc > </gads? t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- c1XWsVsDlQ> > > Jyotish > </gads? t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > * Visit your group " > <> " on the web. > > * To from this group, send an email to: > > <? subject=Un> > > * Your use of is subject to the > <> Terms of Service. > > > > _____ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Dear Visti, Namaskar, yes of course, I have your initial analysis. I will spend the next days in the country, without Internet, but will study this question and write again at the end of the week. I am not learned as you are in astrology, what I say today is more a feeling than a real astrological study ; but... this disease involves viruses and some have already been found, for me, since your analysis. It involves strange and hidden viruses (created in order to be used as weapons), this is truly rahuish. In my chart, the axis of Nodes is very strong and I felt for my chidhood that I bore some "very little animals (viruses)" in my body ; how I knew it, I can't tell you, but it is so. I am quite sure that we have been (people with the same disease) poisoned ! Several serious and well-known physicians are thinking so. But no money at all is released by any government for research because truth would not be in their favour. More : Rahu is Swati's lord, my lagna, and I am very in tune with the "rahuish" symbolism : magnetism, dowsing, etc... During the next days, I'll search astrological reasons to sustain this. In few words : I do have a rahuish disease.You are right : my immune system is very bad, and there is a rahuish disease. Warm regards, Annick ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Annick, Namaskar Do you still have the analysis i made of your chart initially? Please give a good reason for Rahu being the culprit for your problems. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com *** [] On Behalf Of Annick Bidreman06 March 2006 20:06To: Subject: Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? Dear Graham and Visti, I'd be happy if what I'm living could throw some light about dasas : I got terribly ill (a chronicle and painful disease) on the very end of July (30-31) 2005, suffering from fibromyalgia. Never before was I in so bad a condition. With the VD 365 days, Rahu Mahadasa will begin on March 27 th 2006 ; but with VD 360 days, the situation becomes clear before this date ! That is the reason of my query. In VD 360, Rahu Mahadasa began on June 23 th, 2005. In my natal chart, Jupiter, lord of the 6 th and conjunct Venus, Lagnesh - both being in the 8 th house - is aspecting Rahu in the 4 th. Rahu was - and still is - in the 6 th in gochara. So, until now, for me, VD 360 days is speaking loud :-) I stay open to any further analysis of this interesting topic and shall try to elaborate further in the following days. Warm regards, Annick PS : data : Lyons (France) - July 23 th 1953 - 1.27 p.m. Dear Visti and Annick,Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in the lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in the Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation – 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), to support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = 432000 days "one –tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali-yuga, but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions).Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on the other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be used. Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords (abdadhipathi and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr Raman (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and Bhava Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni-solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year of 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a calculation involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of the number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the Surya Siddhanta.This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both backed up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her views or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our mind. The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find it effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but Mantreswara was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question.Very best wishesGraham, "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote:>> ||Hare Rama Krsna||> > Dear Annick, Namaskar> > We at SJC follow those who know better.> > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4||> > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH prakalpyaaH||"> > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next arrives at the> same position. This is considered as one year| This is also considered as> one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the days are also> calculated||> > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find the year.> > Best wishes,> > ***> > Visti Larsen> > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or <http://astrovisti.com>>'>http://astrovisti.com>> http://astrovisti.com> > ***> > _____ > > [] On> Behalf Of Annick Bidreman> 05 March 2006 13:25> > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa> > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd be more than> happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this one in 360> days, arguing occult reasons, and so on.> > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand clearly this> question.> > > > Thanks in advance.> > > > Warm regards,> > > > Annick> > > > ~ om tat sat ~> Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna'> (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the> human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > > > > > > > > Vedic> </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr> ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDevlqgA> > > Vedic> </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro> logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU4fmYDwY> rEv2UNA> astrology > > Free> </gads?t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+> astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5NzTK1sUgW> PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > Sjc> </gads?t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free> +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt-c1XWsVsDlQ> > > Jyotish> </gads?t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=> Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJwPEOiQ>> > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > * Visit your group "> <> " on the web.> > * > > <?subject=Un> > > * > <> Terms of Service. > > > > _____> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Dear All, For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 is reposted below. 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next sunrise.- - - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun rise.-- - (KSK, Reader I, p 97) c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find that the Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on the seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- (365.25 D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October & November 2000) 2. NAMES OF A YEAR 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 D/Y advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's Graha and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days respectively) 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the civil year.--- (RAICHUR) b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN) e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is somehow "Lunar" which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) long, which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) e/ Other Quotations (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day year the following quotes speak of this: "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the heavens, but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17-18.)"Twelve spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? In these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A year has 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya Brahmana 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year (365.25 days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The year of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for sacrificial purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS). Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian Astronomy) published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's article) (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the intricacies of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder of equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, and varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the velocity of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, people who were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking that since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas talked of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis this must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 day years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with oranges, you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a situation in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's article) 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are fixed on Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are named as MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.--- (RAICHUR) b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not considered--- 360 d/y accepted---if so particular— - 365 days not a year--- have to go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, p 69) c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length of time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose after the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then Lunar tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar year of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. Inspite of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such as Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa calculation is 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one round of the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) f/ Other Quotations (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic astronomical texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- pala---- vipala- prativipala Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ 22------ 30 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ 06 [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala = 60 prativipala] Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian Astronomy) published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's article) 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the world now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is universally used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the solar year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The followers of Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years arealways less than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent with dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days (6.25x6) after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year after 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari dasa, the total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- with compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)----because each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y by 5.25 days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y ---saying there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month for every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated operative period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual period. If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would turn out that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while he has yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- (H.R. SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In terms of solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using the 360 days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of 432000 years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence, perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil (savanamana) 360 day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy between the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can amount to more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 D/Y advocate ROHINI RAJAN) f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is whether to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y (365x120= 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for 1y to 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y-Gregorian calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; Moon Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y Moon, 7y Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu and 20y to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, Dasha, Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), giving Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) and so on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y + 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= 20 (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= 5m:2d; Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx 12x30= 23d; Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ Rah= 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple rathematics will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and so on in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All India Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this simple calculations, there is an error for correction not for discussion. In other words, all tables should be the same. h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as mentined by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of 360 D/Y & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or formulars, like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a 360 D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. Thus DASAS TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12 MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of 360 D/Y option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for Moon are taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. V—A—WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use this year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or must eb taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a month and a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" indicate that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord and dasha determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, ---quoting this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's article) e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter WHAT numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to use 365.25 days – no matter "who says what", but this preference is based solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see things in a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 rather than 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares – as long as it works for me… So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL need to use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while simultaneously respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) V—B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better results with Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis of 365 days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him better results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, Preface to the Second Edition) d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been done which could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a small group of astrologers that their method is better. All the great Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India all used the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) VI--CONCLUSION 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a year with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120 years. 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 (Sanjay Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), KPAstro 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara Light 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have been seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 & 2953) Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in a year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa period as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference per year, 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of difference with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day-year Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all tables of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP table or non-KP table because it is mathematics. 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. Krishnamurti and KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay Rath, V. K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard Houck, James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, A.K. Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, P.V.R. Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of 365 D/Y advocates. 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other than Hira Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who are found until now. REFERENCES 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical Astrology, pp 54-56 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western Astrologer, p 223 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118-135 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary Dasa- Period", KP Annual 2004 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events through Dasa and Transit, pp 97-98 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi Astrology, pp 4-5 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 Days", Astrological Magazine, January 2004 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, p 154 http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari Mahadasa?", Oct & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long _ year/how_long_year_1.htm , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham wrote: > > Dear Visti, > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year length in > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year is > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical agricultural etc > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, ie. > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation to > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 day das > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial year, > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and in other > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana dina" is > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the basic unit > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You may > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. But it > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be calculated > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only reference > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations is in the > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I appreciate > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, but some > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be dismissed > too lightly. > Best wishes > Graham > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much similar to > the > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the year > reconned by > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar in use > for the > > particular place, and for that particular time period it was the > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian Calendar. > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of Solar > year here in > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by Mantresvara. I > have not > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the dasa > length other > > than this. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > *** > > > > > > > [] On > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation > of > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in > the > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in > the > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation - > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), > to > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali- yuga, > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on > the > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be > used. > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > (abdadhipathi > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr > Raman > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and > Bhava > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year > of > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > calculation > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of > the > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both > backed > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her > views > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our > mind. > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find > it > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think > Visti's > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > Mantreswara > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > Very best wishes > > Graham > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > wrote: > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next > > arrives at the > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is also > > considered as > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the > days > > are also > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find > > the year. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > *** > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > *** > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > [] On > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd > be > > more than > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this > one > > in 360 > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand > > clearly this > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said > > that the > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > </gads? > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > lqgA> > > > > > > Vedic > > > </gads? > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > 4fmYDwY > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > Free > > > </gads? > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > TK1sUgW > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > </gads? > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > Jyotish > > > </gads? > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > <> " on the web. > > > > > > * > > > > > > <? > > subject=Un> > > > > > > * > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said > that the > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > reading today > > Links > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Annick, Namaskar Your reasoning regarding the nature of the disease and rahu is correct, BUT you will learn that in your chart Rahu is not associated with your disease – instead it is badhakesh. We say that Badhakesh is like Rahu (infact much much worse) as it causes adrshya (invisible) roga (diseases). When Badhakesh is involved thats when the doctors have no clue what is going on. Your badhakesh is the Sun and is indeed forming the combination for the disease... Now do you also remember why i was highlighting this in my analysis of your chart? The problem happened during Mars-Sun dasa. As for this entire discussion on 360 vs. 365. I still don’t see how one can justify using 360 days, just because the Solar years have been adjusted to the Savana years. It just means that we are adjusting the 360 degrees of motion to the actual days used in a year. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com bookman;color:#993366"> or http://astrovisti.com *** font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold"> [] On Behalf Of Annick Bidreman 06 March 2006 22:50 Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Dear Visti, Namaskar, 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">yes of course, I have your initial analysis. I will spend the next days in the country, without Internet, but will study this question and write again at the end of the week. I am not learned as you are in astrology, what I say today is more a feeling than a real astrological study ; but... this disease involves viruses and some have already been found, for me, since your analysis. It involves strange and hidden viruses (created in order to be used as weapons), this is truly rahuish. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">In my chart, the axis of Nodes is very strong and I felt for my chidhood that I bore some "very little animals (viruses)" in my body ; how I knew it, I can't tell you, but it is so. I am quite sure that we have been (people with the same disease) poisoned ! Several serious and well-known physicians are thinking so. But no money at all is released by any government for research because truth would not be in their favour. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">More : Rahu is Swati's lord, my lagna, and I am very in tune with the "rahuish" symbolism : magnetism, dowsing, etc... font-family:Arial">During the next days, I'll search astrological reasons to sustain this. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">In few words : I do have a rahuish disease.You are right : my immune system is very bad, and there is a rahuish disease. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Warm regards, font-family:Arial">Annick margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> 12.0pt"> color:#FF0080">||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Annick, Namaskar Do you still have the analysis i made of your chart initially? Please give a good reason for Rahu being the culprit for your problems. Best wishes, *** 10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">Visti Larsen 10.0pt;font-family:bookman;color:navy">For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com color:navy"> or http://astrovisti.com *** font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold"> [] On Behalf Of Annick Bidreman 06 March 2006 20:06 Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Dear Graham and Visti, 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">I'd be happy if what I'm living could throw some light about dasas : I got terribly ill (a chronicle and painful disease) on the very end of July (30-31) 2005, suffering from fibromyalgia. Never before was I in so bad a condition. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">With the VD 365 days, Rahu Mahadasa will begin on March 27 th 2006 ; but with VD 360 days, the situation becomes clear before this date ! That is the reason of my query. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">In VD 360, Rahu Mahadasa began on June 23 th, 2005. In my natal chart, Jupiter, lord of the 6 th and conjunct Venus, Lagnesh - both being in the 8 th house - is aspecting Rahu in the 4 th. Rahu was - and still is - in the 6 th in gochara. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">So, until now, for me, VD 360 days is speaking loud :-) 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">I stay open to any further analysis of this interesting topic and shall try to elaborate further in the following days. 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Warm regards, 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">Annick 12.0pt"> font-family:Arial">PS : data : Lyons (France) - July 23 th 1953 - 1.27 p.m. margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> 12.0pt"> Dear Visti and Annick, Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in the lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in the Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation – 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), to support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = 432000 days "one –tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali-yuga, but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on the other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be used. Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords (abdadhipathi and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr Raman (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and Bhava Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year of 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a calculation involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of the number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the Surya Siddhanta. This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both backed up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her views or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our mind. The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find it effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but Mantreswara was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. Very best wishes Graham , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH prakalpyaaH||" > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next arrives at the > same position. This is considered as one year| This is also considered as > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the days are also > calculated|| > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find the year. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or <http://astrovisti.com> > http://astrovisti.com > > *** > > _____ > > [] On > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd be more than > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this one in 360 > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand clearly this > question. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Annick > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > > > > > > > > Vedic > </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev lqgA> > > Vedic > </gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU 4fmYDwY > rEv2UNA> astrology > > Free > </gads? t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz TK1sUgW > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > Sjc > </gads? t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- c1XWsVsDlQ> > > Jyotish > </gads? t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > * Visit your group " > <> " on the web. > > * To from this group, send an email to: > > <? subject=Un> > > * Your use of is subject to the > <> Terms of Service. > > > > _____ > 12.0pt"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Dear Visti, Namaskar, thanks again for your guidance ; things are clearer to me now. Yes I remember what you were highlghting then ; sorry for the inconvenience, but I am still a student and other people gave me an explanation with VD 360 days. You're totally right, Visti. I learnt a lot with this. Warm regards, Annick ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Annick, Namaskar Your reasoning regarding the nature of the disease and rahu is correct, BUT you will learn that in your chart Rahu is not associated with your disease – instead it is badhakesh. We say that Badhakesh is like Rahu (infact much much worse) as it causes adrshya (invisible) roga (diseases). When Badhakesh is involved thats when the doctors have no clue what is going on. Your badhakesh is the Sun and is indeed forming the combination for the disease... Now do you also remember why i was highlighting this in my analysis of your chart? The problem happened during Mars-Sun dasa. As for this entire discussion on 360 vs. 365. I still don’t see how one can justify using 360 days, just because the Solar years have been adjusted to the Savana years. It just means that we are adjusting the 360 degrees of motion to the actual days used in a year. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com *** [] On Behalf Of Annick Bidreman06 March 2006 22:50To: Subject: Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? Dear Visti, Namaskar, yes of course, I have your initial analysis. I will spend the next days in the country, without Internet, but will study this question and write again at the end of the week. I am not learned as you are in astrology, what I say today is more a feeling than a real astrological study ; but... this disease involves viruses and some have already been found, for me, since your analysis. It involves strange and hidden viruses (created in order to be used as weapons), this is truly rahuish. In my chart, the axis of Nodes is very strong and I felt for my chidhood that I bore some "very little animals (viruses)" in my body ; how I knew it, I can't tell you, but it is so. I am quite sure that we have been (people with the same disease) poisoned ! Several serious and well-known physicians are thinking so. But no money at all is released by any government for research because truth would not be in their favour. More : Rahu is Swati's lord, my lagna, and I am very in tune with the "rahuish" symbolism : magnetism, dowsing, etc... During the next days, I'll search astrological reasons to sustain this. In few words : I do have a rahuish disease.You are right : my immune system is very bad, and there is a rahuish disease. Warm regards, Annick ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Annick, Namaskar Do you still have the analysis i made of your chart initially? Please give a good reason for Rahu being the culprit for your problems. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com *** [] On Behalf Of Annick Bidreman06 March 2006 20:06To: Subject: Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? Dear Graham and Visti, I'd be happy if what I'm living could throw some light about dasas : I got terribly ill (a chronicle and painful disease) on the very end of July (30-31) 2005, suffering from fibromyalgia. Never before was I in so bad a condition. With the VD 365 days, Rahu Mahadasa will begin on March 27 th 2006 ; but with VD 360 days, the situation becomes clear before this date ! That is the reason of my query. In VD 360, Rahu Mahadasa began on June 23 th, 2005. In my natal chart, Jupiter, lord of the 6 th and conjunct Venus, Lagnesh - both being in the 8 th house - is aspecting Rahu in the 4 th. Rahu was - and still is - in the 6 th in gochara. So, until now, for me, VD 360 days is speaking loud :-) I stay open to any further analysis of this interesting topic and shall try to elaborate further in the following days. Warm regards, Annick PS : data : Lyons (France) - July 23 th 1953 - 1.27 p.m. Dear Visti and Annick,Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in the lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in the Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation – 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), to support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate as "By subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in fact be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by Mantreswara would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a proportional conversion to bring them into line with the material solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in actual fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 = 432000 days "one –tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" (not everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali-yuga, but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions).Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of year length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on the other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be used. Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords (abdadhipathi and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr Raman (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and Bhava Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni-solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar year of 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a calculation involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of the number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the Surya Siddhanta.This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, and I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both backed up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, but that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her views or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our mind. The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find it effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think Visti's interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but Mantreswara was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view of other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question.Very best wishesGraham, "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote:>> ||Hare Rama Krsna||> > Dear Annick, Namaskar> > We at SJC follow those who know better.> > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4||> > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH prakalpyaaH||"> > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next arrives at the> same position. This is considered as one year| This is also considered as> one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the days are also> calculated||> > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to find the year.> > Best wishes,> > ***> > Visti Larsen> > For services and articles visit: > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or <http://astrovisti.com>>'>http://astrovisti.com>> http://astrovisti.com> > ***> > _____ > > [] On> Behalf Of Annick Bidreman> 05 March 2006 13:25> > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa> > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but I'd be more than> happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this one in 360> days, arguing occult reasons, and so on.> > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand clearly this> question.> > > > Thanks in advance.> > > > Warm regards,> > > > Annick> > > > ~ om tat sat ~> Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna'> (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the> human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > > > > > > > > Vedic> </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr> ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDevlqgA> > > Vedic> </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro> logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU4fmYDwY> rEv2UNA> astrology > > Free> </gads?t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+> astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5NzTK1sUgW> PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > Sjc> </gads?t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free> +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt-c1XWsVsDlQ> > > Jyotish> </gads?t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=> Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJwPEOiQ>> > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > * Visit your group "> <> " on the web.> > * > > <?subject=Un> > > * > <> Terms of Service. > > > > _____> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Dear "tw853" and Visti Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to make up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that in Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days is considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is in fact correct according to Indian usage. Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do not - as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar degrees (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 days). I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying a year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention Usha and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. This is interesting, and needs investigating. You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and Raman's development therefrom) and another for dasa years. But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for dasa is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there. Thank you Graham , "tw853" <tw853 wrote: > > Dear All, > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 is > reposted below. > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next sunrise.- > - > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun rise.-- > - > (KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find that the > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on the > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- (365.25 > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October & > November 2000) > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 D/Y > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's Graha > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days > respectively) > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the civil > year.--- (RAICHUR) > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN) > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is somehow "Lunar" > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) long, > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > e/ Other Quotations > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day year the > following quotes speak of this: > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the heavens, > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17-18.)"Twelve > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? In > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A year has > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya Brahmana > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year (365.25 > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The year > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for sacrificial > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS). > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian Astronomy) > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's article) > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the intricacies > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder of > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, and > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the velocity > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, people who > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking that > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas talked > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis this > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 day > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with oranges, > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a situation > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > article) > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are fixed on > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are named as > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.--- > (RAICHUR) > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- (KSK, > Reader I, p 97); > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not considered--- > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular— - 365 days not a year--- have to > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, p 69) > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length of > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose after > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then Lunar > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar year > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. Inspite > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such as > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa calculation is > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one round of > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) > > f/ Other Quotations > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic astronomical > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- > pala---- vipala- prativipala > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ > 22------ 30 > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ > 06 > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala = 60 > prativipala] > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian Astronomy) > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's article) > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the world > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is universally > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the solar > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The followers of > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years arealways less > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent with > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days (6.25x6) > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year after > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari dasa, the > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- with > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)----because > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y by 5.25 > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y ---saying > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month for > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated operative > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual period. > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would turn out > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while he has > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- (H.R. > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In terms of > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using the 360 > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of 432000 > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence, > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil (savanamana) 360 > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy between > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can amount to > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 D/Y > advocate ROHINI RAJAN) > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is whether > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y (365x120= > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for 1y to > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y-Gregorian > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; Moon > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y Moon, 7y > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu and 20y > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, Dasha, > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), giving > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) and so > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y + > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= 20 > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= 5m:2d; > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx 12x30= 23d; > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ Rah= > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple rathematics > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and so on > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. Braha, > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All India > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this simple > calculations, there is an error for correction not for discussion. In > other words, all tables should be the same. > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as mentined > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of 360 D/Y > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or formulars, > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a 360 > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. Thus DASAS > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12 > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of 360 D/Y > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for Moon are > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. > > > V—A—WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use this > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or must eb > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a month and > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" indicate > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord and dasha > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, --- quoting > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's article) > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter WHAT > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to use > 365.25 days – no matter "who says what", but this preference is based > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see things in > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 rather than > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares – as long as it works > for me… So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL need to > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while simultaneously > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) > > > V—B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better results with > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis of 365 > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him better > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, Preface > to the Second Edition) > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been done which > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a small > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the great > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India all used > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > VI--CONCLUSION > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a year > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120 > years. > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 (Sanjay > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), KPAstro > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara Light > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have been > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 & 2953) > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in a > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa period > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference per year, > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of difference > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day-year > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all tables > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP table or > non-KP table because it is mathematics. > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa > calculation. > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. Krishnamurti and > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay Rath, V. > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard Houck, > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, A.K. > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, P.V.R. > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of 365 D/Y > advocates. > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other than Hira > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who are > found until now. > > > > > REFERENCES > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical Astrology, > pp 54-56 > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western > Astrologer, p 223 > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325 > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118-135 > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary Dasa- > Period", KP Annual 2004 > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events through Dasa > and Transit, pp 97-98 > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi Astrology, > pp 4-5 > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 Days", > Astrological Magazine, January 2004 > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, p 154 > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari Mahadasa?", Oct > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long > _ > year/how_long_year_1.htm > > > > > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Visti, > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year length > in > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year is > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical agricultural > etc > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, ie. > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation to > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 day das > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial year, > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and in > other > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana dina" > is > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the basic > unit > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You may > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. But > it > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > calculated > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only reference > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations is in > the > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I appreciate > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, but > some > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > dismissed > > too lightly. > > Best wishes > > Graham > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > wrote: > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much similar > to > > the > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the year > > reconned by > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar in use > > for the > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it was the > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > Calendar. > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of Solar > > year here in > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by Mantresvara. > I > > have not > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the dasa > > length other > > > than this. > > > Best wishes, > > > *** > > > Visti Larsen > > > For services and articles visit: > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 > days? > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's interpretation > > of > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given in > > the > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the very > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article in > > the > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti computation - > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the web), > > to > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate > as "By > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in > fact > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in that > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > Mantreswara > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > material > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in > actual > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so many > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day year > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce the > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, 120x360 > = > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" > (not > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali- > yuga, > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of > year > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, on > > the > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be > > used. > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > (abdadhipathi > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr > > Raman > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his practical > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and > > Bhava > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar > year > > of > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, following > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > calculation > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") of > > the > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per the > > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, > and > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both > > backed > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, > but > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her > > views > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our > > mind. > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy that > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and find > > it > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think > > Visti's > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > Mantreswara > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view > of > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > > > Very best wishes > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next > > > arrives at the > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is also > > > considered as > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same the > > days > > > are also > > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to > find > > > the year. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but > I'd > > be > > > more than > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer this > > one > > > in 360 > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to understand > > > clearly this > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > Krishna' > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who > said > > > that the > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > </gads? > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > </gads? > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > > 4fmYDwY > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > Free > > > > </gads? > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > > TK1sUgW > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > > </gads? > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > Jyotish > > > > </gads? > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > > <> " on the web. > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > <? > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > * > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said > > that the > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > > reading today > > > Links > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Dear Graham ji, Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in classic astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of 360 days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey varsh. The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth nakshatra. It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal }time and the time still due { bhogya kaal }. Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that particular place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give the duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is published from. Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary from 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to be worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still due for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani nakshatra , the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those born in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these three nakshatra may not be the same. Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked out. Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of venus within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 days from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration. With naman to all gurujan, Varun Trivedi , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham wrote: > > Dear "tw853" and Visti > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to make > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that in > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days is > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is in > fact correct according to Indian usage. > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do not - > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar degrees > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 days). > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying a > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention Usha > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. This > is interesting, and needs investigating. > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and Raman's > development therefrom) and another for dasa years. > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for dasa > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there. > Thank you > Graham > > , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 is > > reposted below. > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next > sunrise.- > > - > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun > rise.-- > > - > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find that > the > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on the > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > (365.25 > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October & > > November 2000) > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 D/Y > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's > Graha > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days > > respectively) > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the > civil > > year.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN) > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > somehow "Lunar" > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) long, > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > e/ Other Quotations > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day year the > > following quotes speak of this: > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the > heavens, > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17-18.)"Twelve > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? In > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A year has > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > Brahmana > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > (365.25 > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The year > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > sacrificial > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS). > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian Astronomy) > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's article) > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > intricacies > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder of > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, and > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > velocity > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, people > who > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking that > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas > talked > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis this > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 day > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with oranges, > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > situation > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > article) > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are fixed on > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are named as > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.--- > > (RAICHUR) > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- (KSK, > > Reader I, p 97); > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not considered- -- > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular— - 365 days not a year--- have > to > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, p 69) > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length of > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose > after > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then > Lunar > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar year > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > Inspite > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such as > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa calculation > is > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one round of > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) > > > > f/ Other Quotations > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic astronomical > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- > > pala---- vipala- prativipala > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ > > 22------ 30 > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ > > 06 > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala = 60 > > prativipala] > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian Astronomy) > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's article) > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the world > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is universally > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the solar > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The followers > of > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years arealways > less > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" > > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent with > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > (6.25x6) > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year > after > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari dasa, > the > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- with > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)---- because > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y by > 5.25 > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y ---saying > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month for > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated operative > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual period. > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would turn out > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while he > has > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- > (H.R. > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In terms > of > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using the 360 > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of 432000 > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence, > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil (savanamana) > 360 > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > between > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can amount to > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 D/Y > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN) > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is > whether > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y (365x120= > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for 1y to > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y-Gregorian > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; Moon > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y Moon, > 7y > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu and > 20y > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, > Dasha, > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), giving > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) and so > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y + > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= 20 > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= 5m:2d; > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx 12x30= > 23d; > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ Rah= > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > rathematics > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and so on > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. > Braha, > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All > India > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this simple > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for discussion. > In > > other words, all tables should be the same. > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > mentined > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of 360 > D/Y > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or formulars, > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a > 360 > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. Thus > DASAS > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12 > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of 360 > D/Y > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for Moon > are > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. > > > > > > V—A—WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use this > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or must > eb > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a month > and > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" indicate > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord and > dasha > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, --- > quoting > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's article) > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter WHAT > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to use > > 365.25 days – no matter "who says what", but this preference is > based > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see things > in > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 rather > than > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares – as long as it > works > > for me… So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL need to > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > simultaneously > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) > > > > > > V—B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better results > with > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis of > 365 > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him better > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, > Preface > > to the Second Edition) > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been done > which > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a small > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the great > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India all > used > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a year > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120 > > years. > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 (Sanjay > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), KPAstro > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara Light > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have been > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 & > 2953) > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in a > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa period > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference per > year, > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of difference > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day-year > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all > tables > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP table or > > non-KP table because it is mathematics. > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > Mahadasa > > calculation. > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. Krishnamurti and > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay Rath, V. > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard Houck, > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, A.K. > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, P.V.R. > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of 365 > D/Y > > advocates. > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other than > Hira > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who are > > found until now. > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > Astrology, > > pp 54-56 > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western > > Astrologer, p 223 > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325 > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118-135 > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary Dasa- > > Period", KP Annual 2004 > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events through > Dasa > > and Transit, pp 97-98 > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > Astrology, > > pp 4-5 > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 Days", > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004 > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, p > 154 > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari Mahadasa?", > Oct > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine > > > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long > > _ > > year/how_long_year_1.htm > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > length > > in > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year is > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical agricultural > > etc > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, ie. > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation to > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 day > das > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial > year, > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and in > > other > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana dina" > > is > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the basic > > unit > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You may > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. But > > it > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > calculated > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > reference > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations is in > > the > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > appreciate > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, but > > some > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > dismissed > > > too lightly. > > > Best wishes > > > Graham > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much > similar > > to > > > the > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the year > > > reconned by > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar in > use > > > for the > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it was > the > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > Calendar. > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of > Solar > > > year here in > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > Mantresvara. > > I > > > have not > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the dasa > > > length other > > > > than this. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > *** > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 > > days? > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > interpretation > > > of > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that given > in > > > the > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year in > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the > very > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an article > in > > > the > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > computation - > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the > web), > > > to > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate > > as "By > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should in > > fact > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in > that > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > Mantreswara > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need a > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > > material > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some scholars > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in > > actual > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so > many > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day > year > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce > the > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > 120x360 > > = > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" > > (not > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali- > > yuga, > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication of > > year > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He does, > on > > > the > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should be > > > used. > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. Dr > > > Raman > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his > practical > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha and > > > Bhava > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and > 30 > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar > > year > > > of > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic lunar > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, > following > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > > calculation > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") > of > > > the > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per > the > > > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology forum, > > and > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both > > > backed > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical principles, > > but > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or her > > > views > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But it's > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up our > > > mind. > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy > that > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and > find > > > it > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think > > > Visti's > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > > Mantreswara > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the view > > of > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > > > > > Very best wishes > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it next > > > > arrives at the > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is also > > > > considered as > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same > the > > > days > > > > are also > > > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to > > find > > > > the year. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; but > > I'd > > > be > > > > more than > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer > this > > > one > > > > in 360 > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to > understand > > > > clearly this > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > Krishna' > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who > > said > > > > that the > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > </gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > </gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > > > 4fmYDwY > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > Free > > > > > </gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > > > TK1sUgW > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > > > </gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish > > > > > </gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > > > <> " on the web. > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > <? > > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > Krishna' > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who > said > > > that the > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > > > reading today > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Dear Varun Thank you for this information. As I think you've gathered, I agree with you. I'm still experimenting as to whether I find dasha balance by degree or by time the best way. You advocate by time. 360 savana year is in a sense an "ideal" year, not a practical year for farming or everyday things, but a year length which in very many ancient civilisations throughout the world has been used for prophetic and astrological purposes (the oldest prophetic books in the Hebrew Old Testament, the Maya priestly and astrological year and "long count", the ancient Greek chronocrators or time lords, which is a system of of planetary periods deriving probably from Indian, Sumerian or Egyptian roots. It's also used to calculate kaal- bala strength as per Parasara. Most list members seem to feel it is not to be used for Hindu dasas. At present, I agree with you rather with the majority. But let's all keep experimenting and keep open minds. Thanks to all for this lively discussion. Graham , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote: > > Dear Graham ji, > > Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in classic > astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of 360 > days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey varsh. > The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth nakshatra. > It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal }time and > the time still due { bhogya kaal }. > > Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that particular > place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give the > duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is > published from. > > Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary from > 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to be > worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still due > for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani nakshatra , > the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those born > in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these three > nakshatra may not be the same. > > Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { > bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked out. > Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of venus > within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 days > from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration. > > With naman to all gurujan, > > Varun Trivedi > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > wrote: > > > > Dear "tw853" and Visti > > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to > make > > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that in > > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days is > > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems > > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is in > > fact correct according to Indian usage. > > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do not - > > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar > degrees > > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 days). > > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying a > > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention Usha > > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. > This > > is interesting, and needs investigating. > > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one > > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and Raman's > > development therefrom) and another for dasa years. > > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for > dasa > > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there. > > Thank you > > Graham > > > > , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 is > > > reposted below. > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION > > > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY > > > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next > > sunrise.- > > > - > > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun > > rise.-- > > > - > > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find > that > > the > > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on > the > > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > > (365.25 > > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October & > > > November 2000) > > > > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR > > > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) > > > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 D/Y > > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's > > Graha > > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days > > > respectively) > > > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) > > > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y > > > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the > > civil > > > year.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); > > > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN) > > > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > > somehow "Lunar" > > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) > long, > > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > e/ Other Quotations > > > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day year > the > > > following quotes speak of this: > > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the > > heavens, > > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this > > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17- 18.)"Twelve > > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? In > > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get > > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A year > has > > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > > Brahmana > > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) > > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > > (365.25 > > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The > year > > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > > sacrificial > > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the > > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS). > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > Astronomy) > > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > article) > > > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > > intricacies > > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder of > > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, and > > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > > velocity > > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, people > > who > > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking that > > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas > > talked > > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis > this > > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day > > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless > > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 day > > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with > oranges, > > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > > situation > > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > > article) > > > > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are fixed > on > > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are named > as > > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.-- - > > > (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one > > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- > (KSK, > > > Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not considered- > -- > > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular— - 365 days not a year--- > have > > to > > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, p > 69) > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length of > > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose > > after > > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then > > Lunar > > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar > year > > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > > Inspite > > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such as > > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa > calculation > > is > > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one round > of > > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) > > > > > > f/ Other Quotations > > > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic astronomical > > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) > > > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- > > > pala---- vipala- prativipala > > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 > > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 > > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 > > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 > > > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 > > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 > > > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ > > > 22------ 30 > > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ > > > 06 > > > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala = > 60 > > > prativipala] > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > Astronomy) > > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's article) > > > > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the > world > > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is universally > > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The > > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the > solar > > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The > followers > > of > > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years arealways > > less > > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" > > > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent > with > > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > > (6.25x6) > > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year > > after > > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari > dasa, > > the > > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- with > > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)---- > because > > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y by > > 5.25 > > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y --- saying > > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month for > > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated > operative > > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual > period. > > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would turn > out > > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while > he > > has > > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- > > (H.R. > > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) > > > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In > terms > > of > > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using the > 360 > > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of > 432000 > > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence, > > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha > > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil (savanamana) > > 360 > > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > > between > > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can amount > to > > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 D/Y > > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN) > > > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is > > whether > > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y (365x120= > > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for 1y > to > > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y- Gregorian > > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; Moon > > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. > > > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y > Moon, > > 7y > > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu and > > 20y > > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, > > Dasha, > > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), giving > > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) > > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) and > so > > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y + > > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= 20 > > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= 5m:2d; > > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx 12x30= > > 23d; > > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= > > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ > Rah= > > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > > rathematics > > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and so > on > > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri > > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. > > Braha, > > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All > > India > > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this simple > > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for > discussion. > > In > > > other words, all tables should be the same. > > > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for > > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > > mentined > > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of > 360 > > D/Y > > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or formulars, > > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why > > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a > > 360 > > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. Thus > > DASAS > > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- > > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12 > > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of 360 > > D/Y > > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for > Moon > > are > > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without > > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. > > > > > > > > > V—A—WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? > > > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use this > > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or > must > > eb > > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a > month > > and > > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) > > > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" > indicate > > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord and > > dasha > > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, --- > > quoting > > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's > article) > > > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter > WHAT > > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to > use > > > 365.25 days – no matter "who says what", but this preference is > > based > > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see > things > > in > > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 rather > > than > > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares – as long as it > > works > > > for me… So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL need > to > > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > > simultaneously > > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) > > > > > > > > > V—B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? > > > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better results > > with > > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. > > > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis > of > > 365 > > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him better > > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, > > Preface > > > to the Second Edition) > > > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been done > > which > > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari > > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a > small > > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the great > > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India all > > used > > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- > > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION > > > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a > year > > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120 > > > years. > > > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 > (Sanjay > > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), > KPAstro > > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara > Light > > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have > been > > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 & > > 2953) > > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in a > > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa > period > > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. > > > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference per > > year, > > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of > difference > > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day- year > > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all > > tables > > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP table > or > > > non-KP table because it is mathematics. > > > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > using a > > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > > Mahadasa > > > calculation. > > > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. Krishnamurti > and > > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay Rath, > V. > > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard > Houck, > > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, > A.K. > > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, > P.V.R. > > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y > > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of > 365 > > D/Y > > > advocates. > > > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y > > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other than > > Hira > > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who > are > > > found until now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES > > > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology > > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" > > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp > > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > > Astrology, > > > pp 54-56 > > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 > > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 > > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris > > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara > > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) > > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 > > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events > > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western > > > Astrologer, p 223 > > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 > > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 > > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325 > > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118-135 > > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary Dasa- > > > Period", KP Annual 2004 > > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events through > > Dasa > > > and Transit, pp 97-98 > > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I > > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 > > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 > > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > Astrology, > > > pp 4-5 > > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 > > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 > > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" > > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm > > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 Days", > > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004 > > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, p > > 154 > > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf > > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha > > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari > Mahadasa?", > > Oct > > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine > > > > > > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long > > > _ > > > year/how_long_year_1.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > > length > > > in > > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year > is > > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical > agricultural > > > etc > > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, ie. > > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation > to > > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 day > > das > > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial > > year, > > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and in > > > other > > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana > dina" > > > is > > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the basic > > > unit > > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You > may > > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. > But > > > it > > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > > calculated > > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > > reference > > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations is > in > > > the > > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > > appreciate > > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, > but > > > some > > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > > dismissed > > > > too lightly. > > > > Best wishes > > > > Graham > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much > > similar > > > to > > > > the > > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the > year > > > > reconned by > > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar in > > use > > > > for the > > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it was > > the > > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > > Calendar. > > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of > > Solar > > > > year here in > > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > > Mantresvara. > > > I > > > > have not > > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the > dasa > > > > length other > > > > > than this. > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > *** > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 > > > days? > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > > interpretation > > > > of > > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that > given > > in > > > > the > > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year > in > > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the > > very > > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an > article > > in > > > > the > > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > > computation - > > > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the > > web), > > > > to > > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in > > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate > > > as "By > > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should > in > > > fact > > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in > > that > > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in > > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > > Mantreswara > > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need > a > > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > > > material > > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some > scholars > > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in > > > actual > > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so > > many > > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day > > year > > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce > > the > > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > > 120x360 > > > = > > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" > > > (not > > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali- > > > yuga, > > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication > of > > > year > > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He > does, > > on > > > > the > > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in > > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should > be > > > > used. > > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. > Dr > > > > Raman > > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his > > practical > > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha > and > > > > Bhava > > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 > and > > 30 > > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor > luni- > > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar > > > year > > > > of > > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic > lunar > > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, > > following > > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > > > calculation > > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") > > of > > > > the > > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per > > the > > > > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology > forum, > > > and > > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both > > > > backed > > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical > principles, > > > but > > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or > her > > > > views > > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But > it's > > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up > our > > > > mind. > > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy > > that > > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and > > find > > > > it > > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think > > > > Visti's > > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the > view > > > of > > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > > > > > > > Very best wishes > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM > bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it > next > > > > > arrives at the > > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is > also > > > > > considered as > > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same > > the > > > > days > > > > > are also > > > > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to > > > find > > > > > the year. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; > but > > > I'd > > > > be > > > > > more than > > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer > > this > > > > one > > > > > in 360 > > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to > > understand > > > > > clearly this > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > Ashram. > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > Krishna' > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > who > > > said > > > > > that the > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > chart > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > > > > 4fmYDwY > > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > Free > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > > > > TK1sUgW > > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > > > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > > > > <> " on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > <? > > > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > Krishna' > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who > > said > > > > that the > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > > > > reading today > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Graham and Varuna, Namaskar How will you define a Nakshatra year? Is it the time that the Sun takes to transit all the nakshatras? Or is it the time the Moon takes? I was thinking about your 'idea' about the savana year, but i haven't seen any festival dates being based on this. Infact they are all based on Tithi and Maasa. You may argue that the festival happens on the sunrise (dina) of the particular tithi, but this is not so for celebrations such as Shivratri or other festivals which occur at night. The point i was trying to make was; the Savana year is a linear calendar used to measure time, and thus the astronomical calculations need to be converted to this, to be able to measure when an event will happen. People won't understand event-times given in degrees, but they will understand months and dates. So if your clients are using a savana calendar, then surely this will be helpful to them, but if they are using a gregorian calendar, then the astronomical degrees need to be converted into times and dates as accordingly. Still you are using the Sidereal-Solar year, which is what Mantresvara in Phala Deepika is trying to convey. As for the qoutes from Surya Siddhanta, again those spans were converted into Savana days for useful reference. The length of a year as given in the Satya Yuga cannot be used today, as the earth is said to be moving closer and closer to the Sun, hence also the length of the year will be slowly diminishing. Btw, i have not found any sloka in the Surya siddhanta giving the span of the year in days. This is something one must find through inference from the calculations given. I was once told that the Surya siddhanta infact takes into account this slow diminishing of the years, but for now i haven't spotted this. I hope others will also benefit from this. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com *** [] On Behalf Of Graham Fox 09 March 2006 01:03 [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? Dear Varun Thank you for this information. As I think you've gathered, I agree with you. I'm still experimenting as to whether I find dasha balance by degree or by time the best way. You advocate by time. 360 savana year is in a sense an "ideal" year, not a practical year for farming or everyday things, but a year length which in very many ancient civilisations throughout the world has been used for prophetic and astrological purposes (the oldest prophetic books in the Hebrew Old Testament, the Maya priestly and astrological year and "long count", the ancient Greek chronocrators or time lords, which is a system of of planetary periods deriving probably from Indian, Sumerian or Egyptian roots. It's also used to calculate kaal- bala strength as per Parasara. Most list members seem to feel it is not to be used for Hindu dasas. At present, I agree with you rather with the majority. But let's all keep experimenting and keep open minds. Thanks to all for this lively discussion. Graham , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote: > > Dear Graham ji, > > Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in classic > astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of 360 > days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey varsh. > The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth nakshatra. > It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal }time and > the time still due { bhogya kaal }. > > Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that particular > place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give the > duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is > published from. > > Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary from > 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to be > worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still due > for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani nakshatra , > the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those born > in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these three > nakshatra may not be the same. > > Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { > bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked out. > Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of venus > within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 days > from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration. > > With naman to all gurujan, > > Varun Trivedi > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > wrote: > > > > Dear "tw853" and Visti > > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to > make > > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that in > > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days is > > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems > > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is in > > fact correct according to Indian usage. > > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do not - > > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar > degrees > > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 days). > > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying a > > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention Usha > > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. > This > > is interesting, and needs investigating. > > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one > > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and Raman's > > development therefrom) and another for dasa years. > > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for > dasa > > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there. > > Thank you > > Graham > > > > , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 is > > > reposted below. > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION > > > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY > > > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next > > sunrise.- > > > - > > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun > > rise.-- > > > - > > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find > that > > the > > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on > the > > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > > (365.25 > > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October & > > > November 2000) > > > > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR > > > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) > > > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 D/Y > > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's > > Graha > > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days > > > respectively) > > > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) > > > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y > > > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the > > civil > > > year.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); > > > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN) > > > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > > somehow "Lunar" > > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) > long, > > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > e/ Other Quotations > > > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day year > the > > > following quotes speak of this: > > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the > > heavens, > > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this > > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17- 18.)"Twelve > > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? In > > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get > > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A year > has > > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > > Brahmana > > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) > > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > > (365.25 > > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The > year > > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > > sacrificial > > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the > > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS). > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > Astronomy) > > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > article) > > > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > > intricacies > > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder of > > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, and > > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > > velocity > > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, people > > who > > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking that > > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas > > talked > > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis > this > > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day > > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless > > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 day > > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with > oranges, > > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > > situation > > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > > article) > > > > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are fixed > on > > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are named > as > > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.-- - > > > (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one > > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- > (KSK, > > > Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not considered- > -- > > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular- - 365 days not a year--- > have > > to > > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, p > 69) > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length of > > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose > > after > > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then > > Lunar > > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar > year > > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > > Inspite > > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such as > > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa > calculation > > is > > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one round > of > > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) > > > > > > f/ Other Quotations > > > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic astronomical > > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) > > > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- > > > pala---- vipala- prativipala > > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 > > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 > > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 > > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 > > > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 > > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 > > > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ > > > 22------ 30 > > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ > > > 06 > > > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala = > 60 > > > prativipala] > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > Astronomy) > > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's article) > > > > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the > world > > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is universally > > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The > > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the > solar > > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The > followers > > of > > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years arealways > > less > > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" > > > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent > with > > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > > (6.25x6) > > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year > > after > > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari > dasa, > > the > > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- with > > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)---- > because > > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y by > > 5.25 > > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y --- saying > > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month for > > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated > operative > > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual > period. > > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would turn > out > > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while > he > > has > > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- > > (H.R. > > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) > > > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In > terms > > of > > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using the > 360 > > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of > 432000 > > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence, > > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha > > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil (savanamana) > > 360 > > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > > between > > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can amount > to > > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 D/Y > > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN) > > > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is > > whether > > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y (365x120= > > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for 1y > to > > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y- Gregorian > > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; Moon > > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. > > > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y > Moon, > > 7y > > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu and > > 20y > > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, > > Dasha, > > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), giving > > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) > > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) and > so > > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y + > > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= 20 > > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= 5m:2d; > > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx 12x30= > > 23d; > > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= > > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ > Rah= > > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > > rathematics > > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and so > on > > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri > > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. > > Braha, > > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All > > India > > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this simple > > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for > discussion. > > In > > > other words, all tables should be the same. > > > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for > > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > > mentined > > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of > 360 > > D/Y > > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or formulars, > > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why > > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a > > 360 > > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. Thus > > DASAS > > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- > > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12 > > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of 360 > > D/Y > > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for > Moon > > are > > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without > > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. > > > > > > > > > V-A-WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? > > > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use this > > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or > must > > eb > > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a > month > > and > > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) > > > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" > indicate > > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord and > > dasha > > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, --- > > quoting > > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's > article) > > > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter > WHAT > > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to > use > > > 365.25 days - no matter "who says what", but this preference is > > based > > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see > things > > in > > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 rather > > than > > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares - as long as it > > works > > > for me. So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL need > to > > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > > simultaneously > > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) > > > > > > > > > V-B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? > > > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better results > > with > > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. > > > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis > of > > 365 > > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him better > > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, > > Preface > > > to the Second Edition) > > > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been done > > which > > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari > > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a > small > > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the great > > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India all > > used > > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- > > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION > > > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a > year > > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120 > > > years. > > > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 > (Sanjay > > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), > KPAstro > > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara > Light > > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have > been > > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 & > > 2953) > > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in a > > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa > period > > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. > > > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference per > > year, > > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of > difference > > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day- year > > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all > > tables > > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP table > or > > > non-KP table because it is mathematics. > > > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > using a > > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > > Mahadasa > > > calculation. > > > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. Krishnamurti > and > > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay Rath, > V. > > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard > Houck, > > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, > A.K. > > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, > P.V.R. > > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y > > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of > 365 > > D/Y > > > advocates. > > > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y > > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other than > > Hira > > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who > are > > > found until now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES > > > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology > > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" > > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp > > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > > Astrology, > > > pp 54-56 > > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 > > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 > > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris > > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara > > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) > > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 > > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events > > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western > > > Astrologer, p 223 > > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 > > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 > > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325 > > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118-135 > > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary Dasa- > > > Period", KP Annual 2004 > > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events through > > Dasa > > > and Transit, pp 97-98 > > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I > > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 > > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 > > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > Astrology, > > > pp 4-5 > > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 > > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 > > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" > > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm > > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 Days", > > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004 > > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, p > > 154 > > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf > > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha > > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari > Mahadasa?", > > Oct > > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine > > > > > > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long > > > _ > > > year/how_long_year_1.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > > length > > > in > > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year > is > > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical > agricultural > > > etc > > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, ie. > > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation > to > > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 day > > das > > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial > > year, > > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and in > > > other > > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana > dina" > > > is > > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the basic > > > unit > > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You > may > > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. > But > > > it > > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > > calculated > > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > > reference > > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations is > in > > > the > > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > > appreciate > > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, > but > > > some > > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > > dismissed > > > > too lightly. > > > > Best wishes > > > > Graham > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much > > similar > > > to > > > > the > > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the > year > > > > reconned by > > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar in > > use > > > > for the > > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it was > > the > > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > > Calendar. > > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of > > Solar > > > > year here in > > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > > Mantresvara. > > > I > > > > have not > > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the > dasa > > > > length other > > > > > than this. > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > *** > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 > > > days? > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > > interpretation > > > > of > > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that > given > > in > > > > the > > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year > in > > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the > > very > > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an > article > > in > > > > the > > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > > computation - > > > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the > > web), > > > > to > > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in > > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate > > > as "By > > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should > in > > > fact > > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in > > that > > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in > > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > > Mantreswara > > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need > a > > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > > > material > > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some > scholars > > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in > > > actual > > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so > > many > > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day > > year > > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce > > the > > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > > 120x360 > > > = > > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" > > > (not > > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali- > > > yuga, > > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication > of > > > year > > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He > does, > > on > > > > the > > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in > > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should > be > > > > used. > > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. > Dr > > > > Raman > > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his > > practical > > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha > and > > > > Bhava > > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 > and > > 30 > > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor > luni- > > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar > > > year > > > > of > > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic > lunar > > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, > > following > > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > > > calculation > > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") > > of > > > > the > > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per > > the > > > > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology > forum, > > > and > > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both > > > > backed > > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical > principles, > > > but > > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or > her > > > > views > > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But > it's > > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up > our > > > > mind. > > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy > > that > > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and > > find > > > > it > > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think > > > > Visti's > > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the > view > > > of > > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > > > > > > > Very best wishes > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM > bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it > next > > > > > arrives at the > > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is > also > > > > > considered as > > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same > > the > > > > days > > > > > are also > > > > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to > > > find > > > > > the year. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; > but > > > I'd > > > > be > > > > > more than > > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer > > this > > > > one > > > > > in 360 > > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to > > understand > > > > > clearly this > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > Ashram. > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > Krishna' > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > who > > > said > > > > > that the > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > chart > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > > > > 4fmYDwY > > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > Free > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > > > > TK1sUgW > > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > > > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > > > > <> " on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > <? > > > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > Krishna' > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who > > said > > > > that the > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > > > > reading today > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y Moon, 7y Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu and 20y to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, Dasha, Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), giving Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) and so on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Venus Bhukti= 20 (20/120)= 3.33333333= 3y:4m , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd wrote: > > Dear Graham ji, > > Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in classic > astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of 360 > days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey varsh. > The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth nakshatra. > It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal }time and > the time still due { bhogya kaal }. > > Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that particular > place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give the > duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is > published from. > > Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary from > 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to be > worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still due > for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani nakshatra , > the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those born > in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these three > nakshatra may not be the same. > > Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { > bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked out. > Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of venus > within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 days > from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration. > > With naman to all gurujan, > > Varun Trivedi > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > wrote: > > > > Dear "tw853" and Visti > > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to > make > > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that in > > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days is > > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems > > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is in > > fact correct according to Indian usage. > > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do not - > > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar > degrees > > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 days). > > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying a > > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention Usha > > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. > This > > is interesting, and needs investigating. > > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one > > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and Raman's > > development therefrom) and another for dasa years. > > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for > dasa > > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there. > > Thank you > > Graham > > > > , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 is > > > reposted below. > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION > > > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY > > > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next > > sunrise.- > > > - > > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun > > rise.-- > > > - > > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find > that > > the > > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on > the > > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > > (365.25 > > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October & > > > November 2000) > > > > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR > > > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) > > > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 D/Y > > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's > > Graha > > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days > > > respectively) > > > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) > > > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y > > > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the > > civil > > > year.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); > > > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN) > > > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > > somehow "Lunar" > > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) > long, > > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > e/ Other Quotations > > > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day year > the > > > following quotes speak of this: > > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the > > heavens, > > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this > > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17- 18.)"Twelve > > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? In > > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get > > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A year > has > > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > > Brahmana > > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) > > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > > (365.25 > > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The > year > > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > > sacrificial > > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the > > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS). > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > Astronomy) > > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > article) > > > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > > intricacies > > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder of > > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, and > > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > > velocity > > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, people > > who > > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking that > > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas > > talked > > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis > this > > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day > > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless > > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 day > > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with > oranges, > > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > > situation > > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > > article) > > > > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are fixed > on > > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are named > as > > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.-- - > > > (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one > > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- > (KSK, > > > Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not considered- > -- > > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular— - 365 days not a year--- > have > > to > > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, p > 69) > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length of > > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose > > after > > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then > > Lunar > > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar > year > > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > > Inspite > > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such as > > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa > calculation > > is > > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one round > of > > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) > > > > > > f/ Other Quotations > > > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic astronomical > > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) > > > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- > > > pala---- vipala- prativipala > > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 > > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 > > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 > > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 > > > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 > > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 > > > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ > > > 22------ 30 > > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ > > > 06 > > > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala = > 60 > > > prativipala] > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > Astronomy) > > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's article) > > > > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y > > > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the > world > > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is universally > > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The > > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the > solar > > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The > followers > > of > > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years arealways > > less > > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" > > > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent > with > > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > > (6.25x6) > > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year > > after > > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari > dasa, > > the > > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- with > > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)---- > because > > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y by > > 5.25 > > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y --- saying > > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month for > > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated > operative > > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual > period. > > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would turn > out > > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while > he > > has > > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- > > (H.R. > > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) > > > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In > terms > > of > > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using the > 360 > > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of > 432000 > > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence, > > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha > > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil (savanamana) > > 360 > > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > > between > > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can amount > to > > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 D/Y > > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN) > > > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is > > whether > > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y (365x120= > > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for 1y > to > > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y- Gregorian > > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; Moon > > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. > > > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y > Moon, > > 7y > > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu and > > 20y > > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, > > Dasha, > > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), giving > > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) > > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) and > so > > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y + > > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= 20 > > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= 5m:2d; > > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx 12x30= > > 23d; > > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= > > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ > Rah= > > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > > rathematics > > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and so > on > > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri > > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. > > Braha, > > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All > > India > > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this simple > > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for > discussion. > > In > > > other words, all tables should be the same. > > > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for > > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > > mentined > > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of > 360 > > D/Y > > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or formulars, > > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why > > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using a > > 360 > > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. Thus > > DASAS > > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- > > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12 > > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of 360 > > D/Y > > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for > Moon > > are > > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without > > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. > > > > > > > > > V—A—WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? > > > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use this > > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or > must > > eb > > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a > month > > and > > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) > > > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" > indicate > > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord and > > dasha > > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, --- > > quoting > > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's > article) > > > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter > WHAT > > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to > use > > > 365.25 days – no matter "who says what", but this preference is > > based > > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see > things > > in > > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 rather > > than > > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares – as long as it > > works > > > for me… So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL need > to > > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > > simultaneously > > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) > > > > > > > > > V—B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? > > > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better results > > with > > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. > > > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis > of > > 365 > > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him better > > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, > > Preface > > > to the Second Edition) > > > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been done > > which > > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari > > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a > small > > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the great > > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India all > > used > > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- > > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION > > > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a > year > > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120 > > > years. > > > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 > (Sanjay > > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), > KPAstro > > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara > Light > > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have > been > > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 & > > 2953) > > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in a > > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa > period > > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. > > > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference per > > year, > > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of > difference > > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day- year > > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all > > tables > > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP table > or > > > non-KP table because it is mathematics. > > > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > using a > > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > > Mahadasa > > > calculation. > > > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. Krishnamurti > and > > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay Rath, > V. > > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard > Houck, > > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, > A.K. > > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, > P.V.R. > > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y > > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of > 365 > > D/Y > > > advocates. > > > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y > > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other than > > Hira > > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who > are > > > found until now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES > > > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology > > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" > > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp > > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > > Astrology, > > > pp 54-56 > > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 > > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 > > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris > > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara > > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) > > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 > > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events > > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western > > > Astrologer, p 223 > > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 > > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 > > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325 > > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118-135 > > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary Dasa- > > > Period", KP Annual 2004 > > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events through > > Dasa > > > and Transit, pp 97-98 > > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I > > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 > > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 > > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > Astrology, > > > pp 4-5 > > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 > > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 > > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" > > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm > > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 Days", > > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004 > > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, p > > 154 > > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf > > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha > > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari > Mahadasa?", > > Oct > > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine > > > > > > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long > > > _ > > > year/how_long_year_1.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > > length > > > in > > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year > is > > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical > agricultural > > > etc > > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, ie. > > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation > to > > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 day > > das > > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial > > year, > > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and in > > > other > > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana > dina" > > > is > > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the basic > > > unit > > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You > may > > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. > But > > > it > > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > > calculated > > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > > reference > > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations is > in > > > the > > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > > appreciate > > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, > but > > > some > > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > > dismissed > > > > too lightly. > > > > Best wishes > > > > Graham > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much > > similar > > > to > > > > the > > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the > year > > > > reconned by > > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar in > > use > > > > for the > > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it was > > the > > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > > Calendar. > > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of > > Solar > > > > year here in > > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > > Mantresvara. > > > I > > > > have not > > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the > dasa > > > > length other > > > > > than this. > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > *** > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 > > > days? > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > > interpretation > > > > of > > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that > given > > in > > > > the > > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year > in > > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that the > > very > > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an > article > > in > > > > the > > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > > computation - > > > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the > > web), > > > > to > > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka in > > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate > > > as "By > > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should > in > > > fact > > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in > > that > > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days in > > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > > Mantreswara > > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) need > a > > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > > > material > > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some > scholars > > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in > > > actual > > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why so > > many > > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day > > year > > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will reduce > > the > > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > > 120x360 > > > = > > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 432000" > > > (not > > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of Kali- > > > yuga, > > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication > of > > > year > > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He > does, > > on > > > > the > > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala in > > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should > be > > > > used. > > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of kilter. > Dr > > > > Raman > > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his > > practical > > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha > and > > > > Bhava > > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 > and > > 30 > > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor > luni- > > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the solar > > > year > > > > of > > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic > lunar > > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, > > following > > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > > > calculation > > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a year") > > of > > > > the > > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as per > > the > > > > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology > forum, > > > and > > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, both > > > > backed > > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical > principles, > > > but > > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or > her > > > > views > > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But > it's > > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up > our > > > > mind. > > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm happy > > that > > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, and > > find > > > > it > > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I think > > > > Visti's > > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the > view > > > of > > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > > > > > > > Very best wishes > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM > bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it > next > > > > > arrives at the > > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is > also > > > > > considered as > > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the same > > the > > > > days > > > > > are also > > > > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude to > > > find > > > > > the year. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; > but > > > I'd > > > > be > > > > > more than > > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer > > this > > > > one > > > > > in 360 > > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to > > understand > > > > > clearly this > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > Ashram. > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > Krishna' > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > who > > > said > > > > > that the > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > chart > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > > > > 4fmYDwY > > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > Free > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > > > > TK1sUgW > > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > > > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > > > > <> " on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > <? > > > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > Krishna' > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who > > said > > > > that the > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > > > > reading today > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Dear tw853 and Visti, Visti, since you ask, I suppose I would say that a "lunar nakshatra year" (I suppose that's what you mean, as other planets go through nakshatras as well) is either 12 sidereal lunar months (327.85 days) or 13 sidereal lunar months (355.17 days). (327.85 is actually given as a dasa-year option in some Vedic astrology programs.) But the relationship between the position of the moon in a given nakshatra at the time of birth and the length of time-periods in an individuals's life is a traditional and symbolic one (it does not have an astronomical basis: solar, lunar or other). So The "key" used to convert that nakshatra position into actual Gregorian (or whatever) years should also be traditional and symbolic. It's exactly the same as the question of what "key" to use for primary directions in traditional Western astrology: the traditional Ptolemaic key is analog to an "ideal" 360 day year for dasas (it works out as the MEAN value between 1 solar year and 12 lunar months ie. 360 tithis). Naibod's "improved" key is like your 365.25 day year, only tropical rather than sidereal (only about 20 minutes difference). Dear tw853 (I wish I knew your name...): As you say about dasa numerical shares (6 for Sun, 10 for Moon, etc): "These shares hold the same proportion in all periods, Dasha, Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO)". Of course I absolutely agree, in terms of proportions it make no difference at all what length of symbolic or astronomical year we use, by definition a proportion is always proportional to the value we choose in the first place. The sums you give work out just fine, whatever year length we choose. It's just more complicated working out the proportions for the true solar year than for a 360-day one, which is why many 365-day astrologers (as you already pointed out) calculated remainders of years on a 360-day basis, to make things quicker and easier. Computers now make this unnecessary, of course, so this short-cut is used less and less. Very best wishes Graham , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > Dear Graham and Varuna, Namaskar > How will you define a Nakshatra year? Is it the time that the Sun takes to > transit all the nakshatras? Or is it the time the Moon takes? > I was thinking about your 'idea' about the savana year, but i haven't seen > any festival dates being based on this. Infact they are all based on Tithi > and Maasa. > You may argue that the festival happens on the sunrise (dina) of the > particular tithi, but this is not so for celebrations such as Shivratri or > other festivals which occur at night. > The point i was trying to make was; the Savana year is a linear calendar > used to measure time, and thus the astronomical calculations need to be > converted to this, to be able to measure when an event will happen. People > won't understand event-times given in degrees, but they will understand > months and dates. So if your clients are using a savana calendar, then > surely this will be helpful to them, but if they are using a gregorian > calendar, then the astronomical degrees need to be converted into times and > dates as accordingly. Still you are using the Sidereal-Solar year, which is > what Mantresvara in Phala Deepika is trying to convey. > As for the qoutes from Surya Siddhanta, again those spans were converted > into Savana days for useful reference. The length of a year as given in the > Satya Yuga cannot be used today, as the earth is said to be moving closer > and closer to the Sun, hence also the length of the year will be slowly > diminishing. > > Btw, i have not found any sloka in the Surya siddhanta giving the span of > the year in days. This is something one must find through inference from the > calculations given. I was once told that the Surya siddhanta infact takes > into account this slow diminishing of the years, but for now i haven't > spotted this. > I hope others will also benefit from this. > Best wishes, > *** > Visti Larsen > For services and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > *** > > > [] On > Behalf Of Graham Fox > 09 March 2006 01:03 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > Dear Varun > Thank you for this information. As I think you've gathered, I agree > with you. I'm still experimenting as to whether I find dasha balance > by degree or by time the best way. You advocate by time. > 360 savana year is in a sense an "ideal" year, not a practical year > for farming or everyday things, but a year length which in very many > ancient civilisations throughout the world has been used for > prophetic and astrological purposes (the oldest prophetic books in > the Hebrew Old Testament, the Maya priestly and astrological year > and "long count", the ancient Greek chronocrators or time lords, > which is a system of of planetary periods deriving probably from > Indian, Sumerian or Egyptian roots. It's also used to calculate kaal- > bala strength as per Parasara. Most list members seem to feel it is > not to be used for Hindu dasas. At present, I agree with you rather > with the majority. But let's all keep experimenting and keep open > minds. > Thanks to all for this lively discussion. > Graham > > , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Graham ji, > > > > Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in classic > > astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of 360 > > days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey varsh. > > The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth > nakshatra. > > It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal }time and > > the time still due { bhogya kaal }. > > > > Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that > particular > > place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give the > > duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is > > published from. > > > > Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary > from > > 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to > be > > worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still due > > for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani > nakshatra , > > the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those > born > > in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these > three > > nakshatra may not be the same. > > > > Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { > > bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked > out. > > Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of > venus > > within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 > days > > from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration. > > > > With naman to all gurujan, > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear "tw853" and Visti > > > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to > > make > > > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that > in > > > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days > is > > > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems > > > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > > > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is > in > > > fact correct according to Indian usage. > > > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do > not - > > > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar > > degrees > > > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 > days). > > > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying > a > > > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention > Usha > > > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. > > This > > > is interesting, and needs investigating. > > > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one > > > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and > Raman's > > > development therefrom) and another for dasa years. > > > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for > > dasa > > > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there. > > > Thank you > > > Graham > > > > > > , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 > is > > > > reposted below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION > > > > > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY > > > > > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next > > > sunrise.- > > > > - > > > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun > > > rise.-- > > > > - > > > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find > > that > > > the > > > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on > > the > > > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > > > (365.25 > > > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October > & > > > > November 2000) > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR > > > > > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) > > > > > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 > D/Y > > > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's > > > Graha > > > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days > > > > respectively) > > > > > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) > > > > > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the > > > civil > > > > year.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); > > > > > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > > > somehow "Lunar" > > > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) > > long, > > > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > e/ Other Quotations > > > > > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day > year > > the > > > > following quotes speak of this: > > > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the > > > heavens, > > > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this > > > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17- > 18.)"Twelve > > > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? > In > > > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get > > > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A > year > > has > > > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > > > Brahmana > > > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) > > > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > > > (365.25 > > > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The > > year > > > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > > > sacrificial > > > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the > > > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS). > > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > Astronomy) > > > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > article) > > > > > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > > > intricacies > > > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder > of > > > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, > and > > > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > > > velocity > > > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, > people > > > who > > > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking > that > > > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas > > > talked > > > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis > > this > > > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day > > > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless > > > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 > day > > > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with > > oranges, > > > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > > > situation > > > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH > SASTRI's > > > > article) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are > fixed > > on > > > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are > named > > as > > > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.-- > - > > > > (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one > > > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- > > (KSK, > > > > Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not > considered- > > -- > > > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular- - 365 days not a year--- > > have > > > to > > > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, > p > > 69) > > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length > of > > > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose > > > after > > > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then > > > Lunar > > > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar > > year > > > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > > > Inspite > > > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such > as > > > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa > > calculation > > > is > > > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one > round > > of > > > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) > > > > > > > > f/ Other Quotations > > > > > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic > astronomical > > > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) > > > > > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- > > > > pala---- vipala- prativipala > > > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 > > > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 > > > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 > > > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 > > > > > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 > > > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 > > > > > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ > > > > 22------ 30 > > > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ > > > > 06 > > > > > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala > = > > 60 > > > > prativipala] > > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > Astronomy) > > > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's > article) > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the > > world > > > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is > universally > > > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The > > > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the > > solar > > > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The > > followers > > > of > > > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years > arealways > > > less > > > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" > > > > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent > > with > > > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > > > (6.25x6) > > > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year > > > after > > > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari > > dasa, > > > the > > > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- > with > > > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)---- > > because > > > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y > by > > > 5.25 > > > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y --- > saying > > > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month > for > > > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated > > operative > > > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual > > period. > > > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would > turn > > out > > > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while > > he > > > has > > > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- > > > (H.R. > > > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) > > > > > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In > > terms > > > of > > > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using > the > > 360 > > > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of > > 432000 > > > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence, > > > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha > > > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil > (savanamana) > > > 360 > > > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > > > between > > > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can > amount > > to > > > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 > D/Y > > > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN) > > > > > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is > > > whether > > > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y > (365x120= > > > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for > 1y > > to > > > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y- > Gregorian > > > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; > Moon > > > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. > > > > > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y > > Moon, > > > 7y > > > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu > and > > > 20y > > > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, > > > Dasha, > > > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), > giving > > > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) > > > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) > and > > so > > > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y > + > > > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= > 20 > > > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= > 5m:2d; > > > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx > 12x30= > > > 23d; > > > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= > > > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ > > Rah= > > > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > > > rathematics > > > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and > so > > on > > > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri > > > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. > > > Braha, > > > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All > > > India > > > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this > simple > > > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for > > discussion. > > > In > > > > other words, all tables should be the same. > > > > > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for > > > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > > > mentined > > > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of > > 360 > > > D/Y > > > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or > formulars, > > > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why > > > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using > a > > > 360 > > > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. > Thus > > > DASAS > > > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- > > > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12 > > > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of > 360 > > > D/Y > > > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for > > Moon > > > are > > > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without > > > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > V-A-WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? > > > > > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use > this > > > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or > > must > > > eb > > > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a > > month > > > and > > > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) > > > > > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" > > indicate > > > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord > and > > > dasha > > > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, --- > > > quoting > > > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's > > article) > > > > > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter > > WHAT > > > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to > > use > > > > 365.25 days - no matter "who says what", but this preference > is > > > based > > > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see > > things > > > in > > > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 > rather > > > than > > > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares - as long as it > > > works > > > > for me. So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL > need > > to > > > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > > > simultaneously > > > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) > > > > > > > > > > > > V-B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? > > > > > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better > results > > > with > > > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. > > > > > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis > > of > > > 365 > > > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him > better > > > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, > > > Preface > > > > to the Second Edition) > > > > > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been > done > > > which > > > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari > > > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a > > small > > > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the > great > > > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India > all > > > used > > > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- > > > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION > > > > > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a > > year > > > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120 > > > > years. > > > > > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 > > (Sanjay > > > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), > > KPAstro > > > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara > > Light > > > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have > > been > > > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 > & > > > 2953) > > > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in > a > > > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa > > period > > > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. > > > > > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference > per > > > year, > > > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of > > difference > > > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day- > year > > > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all > > > tables > > > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP > table > > or > > > > non-KP table because it is mathematics. > > > > > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > > using a > > > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > > > Mahadasa > > > > calculation. > > > > > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. > Krishnamurti > > and > > > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay > Rath, > > V. > > > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard > > Houck, > > > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, > > A.K. > > > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, > > P.V.R. > > > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y > > > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of > > 365 > > > D/Y > > > > advocates. > > > > > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y > > > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other > than > > > Hira > > > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who > > are > > > > found until now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES > > > > > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology > > > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" > > > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp > > > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > > > Astrology, > > > > pp 54-56 > > > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 > > > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 > > > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris > > > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara > > > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) > > > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 > > > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events > > > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western > > > > Astrologer, p 223 > > > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 > > > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 > > > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325 > > > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118- 135 > > > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary > Dasa- > > > > Period", KP Annual 2004 > > > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events > through > > > Dasa > > > > and Transit, pp 97-98 > > > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I > > > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 > > > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 > > > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > > Astrology, > > > > pp 4-5 > > > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 > > > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 > > > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" > > > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm > > > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 > Days", > > > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004 > > > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, > p > > > 154 > > > > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf > > > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha > > > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari > > Mahadasa?", > > > Oct > > > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine > > > > > > > > > > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long > > > > _ > > > > year/how_long_year_1.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" > <fox.graham@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > > > length > > > > in > > > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year > > is > > > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > > > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical > > agricultural > > > > etc > > > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, > ie. > > > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation > > to > > > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 > day > > > das > > > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial > > > year, > > > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and > in > > > > other > > > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > > > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana > > dina" > > > > is > > > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the > basic > > > > unit > > > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You > > may > > > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. > > But > > > > it > > > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > > > calculated > > > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > > > reference > > > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations > is > > in > > > > the > > > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > > > appreciate > > > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, > > but > > > > some > > > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > > > dismissed > > > > > too lightly. > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > Graham > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the > > year > > > > > reconned by > > > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar > in > > > use > > > > > for the > > > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it > was > > > the > > > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > > > Calendar. > > > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of > > > Solar > > > > > year here in > > > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > > > Mantresvara. > > > > I > > > > > have not > > > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the > > dasa > > > > > length other > > > > > > than this. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > *** > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or > 365 > > > > days? > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > > > interpretation > > > > > of > > > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that > > given > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year > > in > > > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that > the > > > very > > > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an > > article > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > > > computation - > > > > > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the > > > web), > > > > > to > > > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka > in > > > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate > > > > as "By > > > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should > > in > > > > fact > > > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in > > > that > > > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days > in > > > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) > need > > a > > > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > > > > material > > > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some > > scholars > > > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in > > > > actual > > > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why > so > > > many > > > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360- day > > > year > > > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will > reduce > > > the > > > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > > > 120x360 > > > > = > > > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of > 432000" > > > > (not > > > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of > Kali- > > > > yuga, > > > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication > > of > > > > year > > > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He > > does, > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala > in > > > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should > > be > > > > > used. > > > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of > kilter. > > Dr > > > > > Raman > > > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his > > > practical > > > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha > > and > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 > > and > > > 30 > > > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor > > luni- > > > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the > solar > > > > year > > > > > of > > > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic > > lunar > > > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, > > > following > > > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > > > > calculation > > > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a > year") > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as > per > > > the > > > > > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology > > forum, > > > > and > > > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, > both > > > > > backed > > > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical > > principles, > > > > but > > > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or > > her > > > > > views > > > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But > > it's > > > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up > > our > > > > > mind. > > > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm > happy > > > that > > > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, > and > > > find > > > > > it > > > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I > think > > > > > Visti's > > > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the > > view > > > > of > > > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very best wishes > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" > <visti@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM > > bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it > > next > > > > > > arrives at the > > > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is > > also > > > > > > considered as > > > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the > same > > > the > > > > > days > > > > > > are also > > > > > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude > to > > > > find > > > > > > the year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; > > but > > > > I'd > > > > > be > > > > > > more than > > > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer > > > this > > > > > one > > > > > > in 360 > > > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to > > > understand > > > > > > clearly this > > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > > Ashram. > > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > > Krishna' > > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > > who > > > > said > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > > chart > > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > > > > > 4fmYDwY > > > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > > > > > TK1sUgW > > > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > > > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > > > > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > > > > > <> " on the > web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <? > > > > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > Ashram. > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > Krishna' > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > who > > > said > > > > > that the > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > chart > > > > > reading today > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > Links > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 II Om Gurave Namah IIHari om , Friends, Please excuse me for my entery in vexed question. I seek permission to quote only few sloka from scripture,that may be of some help or thought provoking. To my faint memory it is from Narad Sahmita.Please remember Narada was a Rishi.So if sloka is correctly in scriputure found one can follow it. "Grahaadan nikhilam ..........pratipadakam" This simply translated means To do calculations or observing rites use Saurman for year,Use Savanmaan for determining conception and duration of pregnancy To determine rains use Nakashtraman,To obverseve Journey,marriage fast,vrita vastu festivals use Lunar year.Samvatsar start be taken from Chaitra shukla and adopt jovian year(Brahispatyara) Year based on movement of Nakshtra is called Nakshtra maas.Savan maas is defined as thirty days recokening a day from sun rise to next sunrise.Serially from sun sankranti and from Pratipada reckon chandra maas. Thus various length of years are used for different purposes.Traditionally in north india in Rajasthan Gujrat and UP i did found calculations of Vimshottari dasa invariably on basis of sun degrees in a table called " Vimshottari dasachakra". They quoted only position of SUN in Rasi degree minutes and seconds to indicate start of dasa and bhukti along with samvatsar.While adding degrees minutes balance of ghati and pals were corresondingly added. Evidently it was 360 degrees=one year. Hope my quote will apprise to some extent the uses of Years in olden days. Please ignore this post if you consider it out of context. (For lack of my precesion in sanskart fonts i am not writing full sloka from my notes.Hoping an excuse.) HARI OM TATSAT------------------------R.C.SrivastavaConsulting AstrologerE-mail : swami_rcs 199,MMIG "Guru Kripa"Shaheed Nagar. AGRA 282001IndiaPh +91-562-223-2323 Mob +91 94122 68768http://www.cosmograce.comhttp://www.cosmograce.blogspot.com------------------------ - Graham Fox Friday, March 10, 2006 3:27 AM [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? Dear tw853 and Visti,Visti, since you ask, I suppose I would say that a "lunar nakshatra year" (I suppose that's what you mean, as other planets go through nakshatras as well) is either 12 sidereal lunar months (327.85 days) or 13 sidereal lunar months (355.17 days). (327.85 is actually given as a dasa-year option in some Vedic astrology programs.) But the relationship between the position of the moon in a given nakshatra at the time of birth and the length of time-periods in an individuals's life is a traditional and symbolic one (it does not have an astronomical basis: solar, lunar or other). So The "key" used to convert that nakshatra position into actual Gregorian (or whatever) years should also be traditional and symbolic. It's exactly the same as the question of what "key" to use for primary directions in traditional Western astrology: the traditional Ptolemaic key is analog to an "ideal" 360 day year for dasas (it works out as the MEAN value between 1 solar year and 12 lunar months ie. 360 tithis). Naibod's "improved" key is like your 365.25 day year, only tropical rather than sidereal (only about 20 minutes difference). Dear tw853 (I wish I knew your name...): As you say about dasa numerical shares (6 for Sun, 10 for Moon, etc): "These shares hold the same proportion in all periods, Dasha,Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO)". Of course I absolutely agree, in terms of proportions it make no difference at all what length of symbolic or astronomical year we use, by definition a proportion is always proportional to the value we choose in the first place. The sums you give work out just fine, whatever year length we choose. It's just more complicated working out the proportions for the true solar year than for a 360-day one, which is why many 365-day astrologers (as you already pointed out)calculated remainders of years on a 360-day basis, to make things quicker and easier. Computers now make this unnecessary, of course, so this short-cut is used less and less.Very best wishesGraham --- In , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote:>> ||Hare Rama Krsna||> Dear Graham and Varuna, Namaskar> How will you define a Nakshatra year? Is it the time that the Sun takes to> transit all the nakshatras? Or is it the time the Moon takes?> I was thinking about your 'idea' about the savana year, but i haven't seen> any festival dates being based on this. Infact they are all based on Tithi> and Maasa.> You may argue that the festival happens on the sunrise (dina) of the> particular tithi, but this is not so for celebrations such as Shivratri or> other festivals which occur at night.> The point i was trying to make was; the Savana year is a linear calendar> used to measure time, and thus the astronomical calculations need to be> converted to this, to be able to measure when an event will happen. People> won't understand event-times given in degrees, but they will understand> months and dates. So if your clients are using a savana calendar, then> surely this will be helpful to them, but if they are using a gregorian> calendar, then the astronomical degrees need to be converted into times and> dates as accordingly. Still you are using the Sidereal-Solar year, which is> what Mantresvara in Phala Deepika is trying to convey.> As for the qoutes from Surya Siddhanta, again those spans were converted> into Savana days for useful reference. The length of a year as given in the> Satya Yuga cannot be used today, as the earth is said to be moving closer> and closer to the Sun, hence also the length of the year will be slowly> diminishing. > > Btw, i have not found any sloka in the Surya siddhanta giving the span of> the year in days. This is something one must find through inference from the> calculations given. I was once told that the Surya siddhanta infact takes> into account this slow diminishing of the years, but for now i haven't> spotted this. > I hope others will also benefit from this.> Best wishes,> ***> Visti Larsen> For services and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com> ***> > -----Original Message-----> [] On> Behalf Of Graham Fox> 09 March 2006 01:03> > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days?> > Dear Varun> Thank you for this information. As I think you've gathered, I agree > with you. I'm still experimenting as to whether I find dasha balance > by degree or by time the best way. You advocate by time.> 360 savana year is in a sense an "ideal" year, not a practical year > for farming or everyday things, but a year length which in very many > ancient civilisations throughout the world has been used for > prophetic and astrological purposes (the oldest prophetic books in > the Hebrew Old Testament, the Maya priestly and astrological year > and "long count", the ancient Greek chronocrators or time lords, > which is a system of of planetary periods deriving probably from > Indian, Sumerian or Egyptian roots. It's also used to calculate kaal-> bala strength as per Parasara. Most list members seem to feel it is > not to be used for Hindu dasas. At present, I agree with you rather > with the majority. But let's all keep experimenting and keep open > minds.> Thanks to all for this lively discussion.> Graham> > --- In , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd@> > wrote:> >> > Dear Graham ji,> > > > Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in classic > > astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of 360 > > days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey varsh. > > The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth > nakshatra. > > It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal }time and > > the time still due { bhogya kaal }.> > > > Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that > particular > > place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give the > > duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is > > published from.> > > > Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary > from > > 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to > be > > worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still due > > for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani > nakshatra , > > the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those > born > > in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these > three > > nakshatra may not be the same.> > > > Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { > > bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked > out. > > Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of > venus > > within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 > days > > from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration.> > > > With naman to all gurujan,> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > wrote:> > >> > > Dear "tw853" and Visti> > > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to > > make > > > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that > in > > > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days > is > > > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems > > > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > > > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is > in > > > fact correct according to Indian usage.> > > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do > not - > > > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar > > degrees > > > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 > days).> > > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying > a > > > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention > Usha > > > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. > > This > > > is interesting, and needs investigating.> > > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one > > > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and > Raman's > > > development therefrom) and another for dasa years.> > > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for > > dasa > > > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there.> > > Thank you> > > Graham> > > > > > --- In , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 > is > > > > reposted below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION> > > > > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY> > > > > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next > > > sunrise.-> > > > -> > > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978)> > > > > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun > > > rise.--> > > > -> > > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97)> > > > > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find > > that > > > the> > > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on > > the> > > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > > > (365.25> > > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October > &> > > > November 2000)> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR> > > > > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978)> > > > > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97);> > > > > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000)> > > > > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 > D/Y> > > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's > > > Graha> > > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days> > > > respectively)> > > > > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98)> > > > > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN)> > > > > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y> > > > > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the > > > civil> > > > year.--- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97)> > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI);> > > > > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN)> > > > > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > > > somehow "Lunar"> > > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) > > long,> > > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > e/ Other Quotations> > > > > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day > year > > the> > > > following quotes speak of this:> > > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the > > > heavens,> > > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this> > > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17-> 18.)"Twelve> > > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? > In> > > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get> > > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A > year > > has> > > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > > > Brahmana> > > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.)> > > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > > > (365.25> > > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The > > year> > > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > > > sacrificial> > > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the> > > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS).> > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > Astronomy)> > > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > article)> > > > > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > > > intricacies> > > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder > of> > > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, > and> > > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > > > velocity> > > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, > people > > > who> > > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking > that> > > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas > > > talked> > > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis > > this> > > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day> > > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless> > > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 > day> > > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with > > oranges,> > > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > > > situation> > > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH > SASTRI's> > > > article)> > > > > > > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are > fixed > > on> > > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are > named > > as> > > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.--> -> > > > (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one> > > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- > > (KSK,> > > > Reader I, p 97);> > > > > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not > considered-> > --> > > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular- - 365 days not a year---> > have > > > to> > > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, > p > > 69)> > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length > of> > > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose > > > after> > > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then > > > Lunar> > > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar > > year> > > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > > > Inspite> > > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such > as> > > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa > > calculation > > > is> > > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one > round > > of> > > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN)> > > > > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02)> > > > > > > > f/ Other Quotations> > > > > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic > astronomical> > > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13)> > > > > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati---> > > > pala---- vipala- prativipala> > > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366> > > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25> > > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30> > > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30> > > > > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48> > > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15> > > > > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------> > > > 22------ 30> > > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------> > > > 06> > > > > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala > = > > 60> > > > prativipala]> > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > Astronomy)> > > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's > article)> > > > > > > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the > > world> > > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is > universally> > > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The> > > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the > > solar> > > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The > > followers > > > of> > > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years > arealways > > > less> > > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA"> > > > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent > > with> > > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > > > (6.25x6)> > > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year > > > after> > > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari > > dasa, > > > the> > > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- > with> > > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)----> > because> > > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y > by > > > 5.25> > > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN)> > > > > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y ---> saying> > > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month > for> > > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated > > operative> > > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual > > period.> > > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would > turn > > out> > > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while > > he > > > has> > > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- > > > (H.R.> > > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article)> > > > > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In > > terms > > > of> > > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using > the > > 360> > > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of > > 432000> > > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence,> > > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha> > > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil > (savanamana) > > > 360> > > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > > > between> > > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can > amount > > to> > > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 > D/Y> > > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN)> > > > > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is > > > whether> > > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y > (365x120=> > > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for > 1y > > to> > > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y-> Gregorian> > > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; > Moon> > > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on.> > > > > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y > > Moon, > > > 7y> > > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu > and > > > 20y> > > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, > > > Dasha,> > > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), > giving> > > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120)> > > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) > and > > so> > > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y > +> > > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= > 20> > > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= > 5m:2d;> > > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx > 12x30= > > > 23d;> > > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)=> > > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ > > Rah=> > > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > > > rathematics> > > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and > so > > on> > > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri> > > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. > > > Braha,> > > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All > > > India> > > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this > simple> > > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for > > discussion. > > > In> > > > other words, all tables should be the same.> > > > > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for> > > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > > > mentined> > > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of > > 360 > > > D/Y> > > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or > formulars,> > > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why> > > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using > a > > > 360> > > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. > Thus > > > DASAS> > > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS ---> > > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12> > > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of > 360 > > > D/Y> > > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for > > Moon > > > are> > > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without> > > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference.> > > > > > > > > > > > V-A-WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ?> > > > > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use > this> > > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or > > must > > > eb> > > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97)> > > > > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a > > month > > > and> > > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI)> > > > > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" > > indicate> > > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord > and > > > dasha> > > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, ---> > > quoting> > > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's > > article)> > > > > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter > > WHAT> > > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to > > use> > > > 365.25 days - no matter "who says what", but this preference > is > > > based> > > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see > > things > > > in> > > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 > rather > > > than> > > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares - as long as it > > > works> > > > for me. So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL > need > > to> > > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > > > simultaneously> > > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081)> > > > > > > > > > > > V-B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ?> > > > > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better > results > > > with> > > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so.> > > > > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis > > of > > > 365> > > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him > better> > > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, > > > Preface> > > > to the Second Edition)> > > > > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been > done > > > which> > > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari> > > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a > > small> > > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the > great> > > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India > all > > > used> > > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over-> > > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION> > > > > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a > > year> > > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120> > > > years.> > > > > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 > > (Sanjay> > > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), > > KPAstro> > > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara > > Light> > > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have > > been> > > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 > & > > > 2953)> > > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in > a> > > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa > > period> > > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates.> > > > > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference > per > > > year,> > > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of > > difference> > > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day-> year> > > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all > > > tables> > > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP > table > > or> > > > non-KP table because it is mathematics.> > > > > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > > using a> > > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > > > Mahadasa> > > > calculation.> > > > > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. > Krishnamurti > > and> > > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay > Rath, > > V.> > > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard > > Houck,> > > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, > > A.K.> > > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, > > P.V.R.> > > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y> > > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of > > 365 > > > D/Y> > > > advocates.> > > > > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y> > > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other > than > > > Hira> > > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who > > are> > > > found until now.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES> > > > > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology> > > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha"> > > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp> > > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > > > Astrology,> > > > pp 54-56> > > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64> > > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54> > > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris> > > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara> > > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23)> > > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226> > > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events> > > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western> > > > Astrologer, p 223> > > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081> > > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176> > > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325> > > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118-135> > > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary > Dasa-> > > > Period", KP Annual 2004> > > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events > through > > > Dasa> > > > and Transit, pp 97-98> > > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I> > > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75> > > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61> > > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > > Astrology,> > > > pp 4-5> > > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978> > > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56> > > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3"> > > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm> > > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 > Days",> > > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004> > > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, > p > > > 154> > > > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf> > > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha> > > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari > > Mahadasa?", > > > Oct> > > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine> > > > > > > > > > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long> > > > _> > > > year/how_long_year_1.htm> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "Graham Fox" > <fox.graham@> > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > > > length > > > > in > > > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year > > is > > > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > > > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical > > agricultural > > > > etc > > > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, > ie. > > > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation > > to > > > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 > day > > > das > > > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial > > > year, > > > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and > in > > > > other > > > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > > > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana > > dina" > > > > is > > > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the > basic > > > > unit > > > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You > > may > > > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. > > But > > > > it > > > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > > > calculated > > > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > > > reference > > > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations > is > > in > > > > the > > > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > > > appreciate > > > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, > > but > > > > some > > > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > > > dismissed > > > > > too lightly.> > > > > Best wishes> > > > > Graham> > > > > --- In , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna||> > > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar> > > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > the> > > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the > > year > > > > > reconned by> > > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar > in > > > use > > > > > for the> > > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it > was > > > the> > > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > > > Calendar.> > > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of > > > Solar > > > > > year here in> > > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > > > Mantresvara. > > > > I > > > > > have not> > > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the > > dasa > > > > > length other> > > > > > than this.> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > ***> > > > > > Visti Larsen> > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > ***> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On> > > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox> > > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17> > > > > > To: > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or > 365 > > > > days?> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick,> > > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > > > interpretation > > > > > of > > > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that > > given > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year > > in > > > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that > the > > > very > > > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an > > article > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > > > computation -> > > > > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the > > > web), > > > > > to > > > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka > in > > > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate > > > > as "By > > > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should > > in > > > > fact > > > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in > > > that > > > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days > in > > > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) > need > > a > > > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > > > > material > > > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some > > scholars > > > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in > > > > actual > > > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why > so > > > many > > > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day > > > year > > > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will > reduce > > > the > > > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > > > 120x360 > > > > = > > > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of > 432000" > > > > (not > > > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of > Kali-> > > > yuga, > > > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions).> > > > > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication > > of > > > > year > > > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He > > does, > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala > in > > > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should > > be > > > > > used. > > > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of > kilter. > > Dr > > > > > Raman > > > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his > > > practical > > > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha > > and > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 > > and > > > 30 > > > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor > > luni-> > > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the > solar > > > > year > > > > > of > > > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic > > lunar > > > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, > > > following > > > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > > > > calculation > > > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a > year") > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as > per > > > the > > > > > > Surya Siddhanta.> > > > > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology > > forum, > > > > and > > > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, > both > > > > > backed > > > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical > > principles, > > > > but > > > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or > > her > > > > > views > > > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But > > it's > > > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up > > our > > > > > mind. > > > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm > happy > > > that > > > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, > and > > > find > > > > > it > > > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I > think > > > > > Visti's > > > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the > > view > > > > of > > > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question.> > > > > > > > > > > > Very best wishes> > > > > > Graham> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" > <visti@> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna||> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4||> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM > > bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > > > prakalpyaaH||"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it > > next > > > > > > arrives at the> > > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is > > also > > > > > > considered as> > > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the > same > > > the > > > > > days > > > > > > are also> > > > > > > calculated||> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude > to > > > > find > > > > > > the year.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > > > <http://astrovisti.com>> > > > > > > http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On> > > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman> > > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; > > but > > > > I'd > > > > > be > > > > > > more than> > > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer > > > this > > > > > one > > > > > > in 360> > > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to > > > understand > > > > > > clearly this> > > > > > > question.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~> > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > > Ashram. > > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > > Krishna'> > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > > who > > > > said > > > > > > that the> > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > > chart > > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev> > > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU> > > > > > 4fmYDwY> > > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz> > > > > > TK1sUgW> > > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free> > > > > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt-> > > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ> > > > > > wPEOiQ>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ! 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Guest guest Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Dear Swami Daivyaga, Thank you for these references, which make it clear that there are many definitions of a "year", and that in the sacred text which you quote it seems the 360° solar year should be used for dasa. This is what Visti and the majority of Indian astrologers (but not all of them) clearly think. Byt the way, Visti, I never said 360 days was the number of days in a year in Satya Yuga. I simply said that some scholars think that at some time in the ancient past, there may actually have been 360 days (and not approx 365.25) in a year. I wouldn't presume to speculate about Satya Yuga. But if the 360-day year can no longer be used today (in Kali-yuga), we should rethink our use of Parasara, as he clearly uses it for calculating kaal-bala, and he is definitely referring to astrology in Kali-Yuga (as specified in chapter on ashtakavarga). (Calculation of kaal-bala year and month lords would be very diffciult if not impossible and incoherent wiht a true solar year.) Remember also that 120 "years" of 360 days=43200 days(symbolically, a "Kali-yuga" number). I recently noticed also that, since a tithi is defined as time taken by the Moon to cover 12° of longitudinal difference in relation to the Sun, that makes 12x360=4320° of longitudinal difference in a "year" of 360 tithis (just over 354 days). Just a coincidience perhaps. I think that the best three candidates for dasa "year" length are 360° solar longitude, 360 tithis, or 360 savana days - the latter being the mean value of the other two. Let's go on experimenting, as well as seeking references from authoritative classics. Best wishes Graham , "Swami Daivyaga" <swami_rcs wrote: > > > II Om Gurave Namah II > Hari om , Friends, > Please excuse me for my entery in vexed question. > I seek permission to quote only few sloka from scripture,that > may be of some help or thought provoking. > To my faint memory it is from Narad Sahmita.Please remember Narada was a Rishi.So if sloka is correctly in scriputure found one can follow it. > "Grahaadan nikhilam ..........pratipadakam" > This simply translated means To do calculations or observing rites use Saurman for year,Use Savanmaan for determining conception and duration of pregnancy > To determine rains use Nakashtraman,To obverseve Journey,marriage fast,vrita vastu festivals use Lunar year.Samvatsar start be taken from Chaitra shukla and adopt jovian year(Brahispatyara) Year based on movement of Nakshtra is called Nakshtra maas.Savan maas is defined as thirty days recokening a day from sun rise to next sunrise.Serially from sun sankranti and from Pratipada reckon chandra maas. > Thus various length of years are used for different purposes.Traditionally in north india in Rajasthan Gujrat and UP i did found calculations of Vimshottari dasa invariably on basis of sun degrees in a table called " Vimshottari dasachakra". > They quoted only position of SUN in Rasi degree minutes and seconds to indicate start of dasa and bhukti along with samvatsar.While adding degrees minutes balance of ghati and pals were corresondingly added. > Evidently it was 360 degrees=one year. > Hope my quote will apprise to some extent the uses of Years in olden days. > Please ignore this post if you consider it out of context. > (For lack of my precesion in sanskart fonts i am not writing full sloka from my notes.Hoping an excuse.) > HARI OM TATSAT > ------------------------ > R.C.Srivastava > Consulting Astrologer > E-mail : swami_rcs > > 199,MMIG "Guru Kripa" > Shaheed Nagar. > AGRA 282001 > India > Ph +91-562-223-2323 > Mob +91 94122 68768 > http://www.cosmograce.com > http://www.cosmograce.blogspot.com > ------------------------ > - > Graham Fox > > Friday, March 10, 2006 3:27 AM > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > > Dear tw853 and Visti, > Visti, since you ask, I suppose I would say that a "lunar nakshatra > year" (I suppose that's what you mean, as other planets go through > nakshatras as well) is either 12 sidereal lunar months (327.85 days) > or 13 sidereal lunar months (355.17 days). (327.85 is actually given > as a dasa-year option in some Vedic astrology programs.) But the > relationship between the position of the moon in a given nakshatra > at the time of birth and the length of time-periods in an > individuals's life is a traditional and symbolic one (it does not > have an astronomical basis: solar, lunar or other). So The "key" > used to convert that nakshatra position into actual Gregorian (or > whatever) years should also be traditional and symbolic. It's > exactly the same as the question of what "key" to use for primary > directions in traditional Western astrology: the traditional > Ptolemaic key is analog to an "ideal" 360 day year for dasas (it > works out as the MEAN value between 1 solar year and 12 lunar months > ie. 360 tithis). Naibod's "improved" key is like your 365.25 day > year, only tropical rather than sidereal (only about 20 minutes > difference). > Dear tw853 (I wish I knew your name...): As you say about dasa > numerical shares (6 for Sun, 10 for Moon, etc): "These shares hold > the same proportion in all periods, Dasha, > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO)". Of > course I absolutely agree, in terms of proportions it make no > difference at all what length of symbolic or astronomical year we > use, by definition a proportion is always proportional to the value > we choose in the first place. The sums you give work out just fine, > whatever year length we choose. It's just more complicated working > out the proportions for the true solar year than for a 360-day one, > which is why many 365-day astrologers (as you already pointed out) > calculated remainders of years on a 360-day basis, to make things > quicker and easier. Computers now make this unnecessary, of course, > so this short-cut is used less and less. > Very best wishes > Graham > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Graham and Varuna, Namaskar > > How will you define a Nakshatra year? Is it the time that the Sun > takes to > > transit all the nakshatras? Or is it the time the Moon takes? > > I was thinking about your 'idea' about the savana year, but i > haven't seen > > any festival dates being based on this. Infact they are all based > on Tithi > > and Maasa. > > You may argue that the festival happens on the sunrise (dina) of > the > > particular tithi, but this is not so for celebrations such as > Shivratri or > > other festivals which occur at night. > > The point i was trying to make was; the Savana year is a linear > calendar > > used to measure time, and thus the astronomical calculations need > to be > > converted to this, to be able to measure when an event will > happen. People > > won't understand event-times given in degrees, but they will > understand > > months and dates. So if your clients are using a savana calendar, > then > > surely this will be helpful to them, but if they are using a > gregorian > > calendar, then the astronomical degrees need to be converted into > times and > > dates as accordingly. Still you are using the Sidereal-Solar year, > which is > > what Mantresvara in Phala Deepika is trying to convey. > > As for the qoutes from Surya Siddhanta, again those spans were > converted > > into Savana days for useful reference. The length of a year as > given in the > > Satya Yuga cannot be used today, as the earth is said to be moving > closer > > and closer to the Sun, hence also the length of the year will be > slowly > > diminishing. > > > > Btw, i have not found any sloka in the Surya siddhanta giving the > span of > > the year in days. This is something one must find through > inference from the > > calculations given. I was once told that the Surya siddhanta > infact takes > > into account this slow diminishing of the years, but for now i > haven't > > spotted this. > > I hope others will also benefit from this. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > *** > > > > > > > [] On > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > 09 March 2006 01:03 > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > > > Dear Varun > > Thank you for this information. As I think you've gathered, I > agree > > with you. I'm still experimenting as to whether I find dasha > balance > > by degree or by time the best way. You advocate by time. > > 360 savana year is in a sense an "ideal" year, not a practical > year > > for farming or everyday things, but a year length which in very > many > > ancient civilisations throughout the world has been used for > > prophetic and astrological purposes (the oldest prophetic books in > > the Hebrew Old Testament, the Maya priestly and astrological year > > and "long count", the ancient Greek chronocrators or time lords, > > which is a system of of planetary periods deriving probably from > > Indian, Sumerian or Egyptian roots. It's also used to calculate > kaal- > > bala strength as per Parasara. Most list members seem to feel it > is > > not to be used for Hindu dasas. At present, I agree with you > rather > > with the majority. But let's all keep experimenting and keep open > > minds. > > Thanks to all for this lively discussion. > > Graham > > > > , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Graham ji, > > > > > > Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in > classic > > > astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of > 360 > > > days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey > varsh. > > > The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth > > nakshatra. > > > It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal } time > and > > > the time still due { bhogya kaal }. > > > > > > Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that > > particular > > > place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give > the > > > duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is > > > published from. > > > > > > Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary > > from > > > 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to > > be > > > worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still > due > > > for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani > > nakshatra , > > > the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those > > born > > > in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these > > three > > > nakshatra may not be the same. > > > > > > Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { > > > bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked > > out. > > > Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of > > venus > > > within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 > > days > > > from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration. > > > > > > With naman to all gurujan, > > > > > > Varun Trivedi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear "tw853" and Visti > > > > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to > > > make > > > > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying > that > > in > > > > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise > days > > is > > > > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it > seems > > > > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > > > > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is > > in > > > > fact correct according to Indian usage. > > > > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do > > not - > > > > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar > > > degrees > > > > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 > > days). > > > > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving > specifying > > a > > > > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention > > Usha > > > > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the > SS. > > > This > > > > is interesting, and needs investigating. > > > > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be > one > > > > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and > > Raman's > > > > development therefrom) and another for dasa years. > > > > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for > > > dasa > > > > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop > there. > > > > Thank you > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 > > is > > > > > reposted below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION > > > > > > > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY > > > > > > > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next > > > > sunrise.- > > > > > - > > > > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of > sun > > > > rise.-- > > > > > - > > > > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find > > > that > > > > the > > > > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based > on > > > the > > > > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > > > > (365.25 > > > > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, > October > > & > > > > > November 2000) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR > > > > > > > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) > > > > > > > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- > (360 > > D/Y > > > > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. > Raman's > > > > Graha > > > > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 > days > > > > > respectively) > > > > > > > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) > > > > > > > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called > the > > > > civil > > > > > year.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); > > > > > > > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA > RAJAN) > > > > > > > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > > > > somehow "Lunar" > > > > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar > days) > > > long, > > > > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > e/ Other Quotations > > > > > > > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day > > year > > > the > > > > > following quotes speak of this: > > > > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the > > > > heavens, > > > > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride > this > > > > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17- > > 18.)"Twelve > > > > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands > these? > > In > > > > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not > get > > > > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A > > year > > > has > > > > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > > > > Brahmana > > > > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) > > > > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > > > > (365.25 > > > > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). > The > > > year > > > > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > > > > sacrificial > > > > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the > > > > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra > (BJS). > > > > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > > Astronomy) > > > > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > > article) > > > > > > > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > > > > intricacies > > > > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious > blunder > > of > > > > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar > day, > > and > > > > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > > > > velocity > > > > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, > > people > > > > who > > > > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking > > that > > > > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional > Panditas > > > > talked > > > > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 > tithis > > > this > > > > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 > day > > > > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a > useless > > > > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in > 360 > > day > > > > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with > > > oranges, > > > > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > > > > situation > > > > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH > > SASTRI's > > > > > article) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are > > fixed > > > on > > > > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are > > named > > > as > > > > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 > days.-- > > - > > > > > (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any > one > > > > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- > > > (KSK, > > > > > Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not > > considered- > > > -- > > > > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular- - 365 days not a year--- > > > > have > > > > to > > > > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual > 2004, > > p > > > 69) > > > > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the > length > > of > > > > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion > arose > > > > after > > > > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, > then > > > > Lunar > > > > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the > Lunar > > > year > > > > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > > > > Inspite > > > > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology > such > > as > > > > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa > > > calculation > > > > is > > > > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one > > round > > > of > > > > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) > > > > > > > > > > f/ Other Quotations > > > > > > > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic > > astronomical > > > > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- > > > > > pala---- vipala- prativipala > > > > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 > > > > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 > > > > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 > > > > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 > > > > > > > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 > > > > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 > > > > > > > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ > > > > > 22------ 30 > > > > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ > > > > > 06 > > > > > > > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 > vipala > > = > > > 60 > > > > > prativipala] > > > > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > > Astronomy) > > > > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's > > article) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the > > > world > > > > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is > > universally > > > > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The > > > > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the > > > solar > > > > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The > > > followers > > > > of > > > > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years > > arealways > > > > less > > > > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" > > > > > calculation, the gap between them would become more > divergent > > > with > > > > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > > > > (6.25x6) > > > > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole > year > > > > after > > > > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari > > > dasa, > > > > the > > > > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- > > with > > > > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)- --- > > > because > > > > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y > > by > > > > 5.25 > > > > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y -- - > > saying > > > > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month > > for > > > > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated > > > operative > > > > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual > > > period. > > > > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would > > turn > > > out > > > > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even > while > > > he > > > > has > > > > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- > > > > > (H.R. > > > > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) > > > > > > > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In > > > terms > > > > of > > > > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using > > the > > > 360 > > > > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of > > > 432000 > > > > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a > coincidence, > > > > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha > > > > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil > > (savanamana) > > > > 360 > > > > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > > > > between > > > > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can > > amount > > > to > > > > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old---- (360 > > D/Y > > > > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN) > > > > > > > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home > is > > > > whether > > > > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y > > (365x120= > > > > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for > > 1y > > > to > > > > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y- > > Gregorian > > > > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; > > Moon > > > > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. > > > > > > > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y > > > Moon, > > > > 7y > > > > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu > > and > > > > 20y > > > > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all > periods, > > > > Dasha, > > > > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), > > giving > > > > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) > > > > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) > > and > > > so > > > > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= > 3y > > + > > > > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter > Anthara= > > 20 > > > > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= > > 5m:2d; > > > > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx > > 12x30= > > > > 23d; > > > > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= > > > > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ > > > Rah= > > > > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > > > > rathematics > > > > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama > and > > so > > > on > > > > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri > > > > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James > T. > > > > Braha, > > > > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, > All > > > > India > > > > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this > > simple > > > > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for > > > discussion. > > > > In > > > > > other words, all tables should be the same. > > > > > > > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for > > > > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > > > > mentined > > > > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any > of > > > 360 > > > > D/Y > > > > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or > > formulars, > > > > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why > > > > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > using > > a > > > > 360 > > > > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. > > Thus > > > > DASAS > > > > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- > > > > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR > =12 > > > > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of > > 360 > > > > D/Y > > > > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for > > > Moon > > > > are > > > > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without > > > > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V-A-WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? > > > > > > > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use > > this > > > > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted > or > > > must > > > > eb > > > > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a > > > month > > > > and > > > > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) > > > > > > > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" > > > indicate > > > > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord > > and > > > > dasha > > > > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, --- > > > > quoting > > > > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's > > > article) > > > > > > > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no > matter > > > WHAT > > > > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is > to > > > use > > > > > 365.25 days - no matter "who says what", but this preference > > is > > > > based > > > > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see > > > things > > > > in > > > > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 > > rather > > > > than > > > > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares - as long as > it > > > > works > > > > > for me. So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL > > need > > > to > > > > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > > > > simultaneously > > > > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V-B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? > > > > > > > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better > > results > > > > with > > > > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. > > > > > > > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the > basis > > > of > > > > 365 > > > > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him > > better > > > > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari > Dasha, > > > > Preface > > > > > to the Second Edition) > > > > > > > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been > > done > > > > which > > > > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari > > > > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a > > > small > > > > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the > > great > > > > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India > > all > > > > used > > > > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- > > > > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION > > > > > > > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in > a > > > year > > > > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole > 120 > > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 > > > (Sanjay > > > > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), > > > KPAstro > > > > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara > > > Light > > > > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations > have > > > been > > > > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, > 28807 > > & > > > > 2953) > > > > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days > in > > a > > > > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa > > > period > > > > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. > > > > > > > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference > > per > > > > year, > > > > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of > > > difference > > > > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25- day- > > year > > > > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, > all > > > > tables > > > > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP > > table > > > or > > > > > non-KP table because it is mathematics. > > > > > > > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > > > using a > > > > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > > > > Mahadasa > > > > > calculation. > > > > > > > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. > > Krishnamurti > > > and > > > > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay > > Rath, > > > V. > > > > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard > > > Houck, > > > > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert > Svoboda, > > > A.K. > > > > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, > > > P.V.R. > > > > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y > > > > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments > of > > > 365 > > > > D/Y > > > > > advocates. > > > > > > > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y > > > > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other > > than > > > > Hira > > > > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri > who > > > are > > > > > found until now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES > > > > > > > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology > > > > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" > > > > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp > > > > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > > > > Astrology, > > > > > pp 54-56 > > > > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 > > > > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 > > > > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris > > > > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and > Anthara > > > > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) > > > > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 > > > > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events > > > > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western > > > > > Astrologer, p 223 > > > > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 > > > > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 > > > > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323- 325 > > > > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118- > 135 > > > > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary > > Dasa- > > > > > Period", KP Annual 2004 > > > > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events > > through > > > > Dasa > > > > > and Transit, pp 97-98 > > > > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I > > > > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 > > > > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 > > > > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > > > Astrology, > > > > > pp 4-5 > > > > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 > > > > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 > > > > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" > > > > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm > > > > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 > > Days", > > > > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004 > > > > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, > 1964, > > p > > > > 154 > > > > > > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf > > > > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha > > > > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari > > > Mahadasa?", > > > > Oct > > > > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long > > > > > _ > > > > > year/how_long_year_1.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" > > <fox.graham@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > > > > length > > > > > in > > > > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana > year > > > is > > > > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to > the > > > > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical > > > agricultural > > > > > etc > > > > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, > > ie. > > > > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close > approximation > > > to > > > > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 > > day > > > > das > > > > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a > ceremonial > > > > year, > > > > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and > > in > > > > > other > > > > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does > not > > > > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana > > > dina" > > > > > is > > > > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the > > basic > > > > > unit > > > > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? > You > > > may > > > > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for > dasa. > > > But > > > > > it > > > > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > > > > calculated > > > > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > > > > reference > > > > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations > > is > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > > > > appreciate > > > > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day > year, > > > but > > > > > some > > > > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > > > > dismissed > > > > > > too lightly. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" > <visti@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > > > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much > > > > similar > > > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the > > > year > > > > > > reconned by > > > > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the > calendar > > in > > > > use > > > > > > for the > > > > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it > > was > > > > the > > > > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > > > > Calendar. > > > > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk > of > > > > Solar > > > > > > year here in > > > > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > > > > Mantresvara. > > > > > I > > > > > > have not > > > > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the > > > dasa > > > > > > length other > > > > > > > than this. > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > > > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or > > 365 > > > > > days? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > > > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > > > > interpretation > > > > > > of > > > > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that > > > given > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a > year > > > in > > > > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that > > the > > > > very > > > > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an > > > article > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > > > > computation - > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on > the > > > > web), > > > > > > to > > > > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka > > in > > > > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you > translate > > > > > as "By > > > > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" > should > > > in > > > > > fact > > > > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days > in > > > > that > > > > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days > > in > > > > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) > > need > > > a > > > > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > > > > > material > > > > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some > > > scholars > > > > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were > in > > > > > actual > > > > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why > > so > > > > many > > > > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360- > day > > > > year > > > > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will > > reduce > > > > the > > > > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > > > > 120x360 > > > > > = > > > > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of > > 432000" > > > > > (not > > > > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of > > Kali- > > > > > yuga, > > > > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no > indication > > > of > > > > > year > > > > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He > > > does, > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal- bala > > in > > > > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days > should > > > be > > > > > > used. > > > > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of > > kilter. > > > Dr > > > > > > Raman > > > > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his > > > > practical > > > > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his > book "Graha > > > and > > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, > for > > > > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of > 360 > > > and > > > > 30 > > > > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor > > > luni- > > > > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the > > solar > > > > > year > > > > > > of > > > > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic > > > lunar > > > > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, > > > > following > > > > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > > > > > calculation > > > > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a > > year") > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as > > per > > > > the > > > > > > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology > > > forum, > > > > > and > > > > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, > > both > > > > > > backed > > > > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical > > > principles, > > > > > but > > > > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his > or > > > her > > > > > > views > > > > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But > > > it's > > > > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make > up > > > our > > > > > > mind. > > > > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm > > happy > > > > that > > > > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, > > and > > > > find > > > > > > it > > > > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I > > think > > > > > > Visti's > > > > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having > the > > > view > > > > > of > > > > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very best wishes > > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" > > <visti@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM > > > bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > > > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when > it > > > next > > > > > > > arrives at the > > > > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is > > > also > > > > > > > considered as > > > > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the > > same > > > > the > > > > > > days > > > > > > > are also > > > > > > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar > longitude > > to > > > > > find > > > > > > > the year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > > > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is > used ; > > > but > > > > > I'd > > > > > > be > > > > > > > more than > > > > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do > prefer > > > > this > > > > > > one > > > > > > > in 360 > > > > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to > > > > understand > > > > > > > clearly this > > > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > > > Ashram. > > > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare > Rama > > > > > Krishna' > > > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the > Great > > > who > > > > > said > > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for > animals. > > > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > > > chart > > > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > > > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > > > > > > 4fmYDwY > > > > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free > > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > > > > > > TK1sUgW > > > > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > > > > > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > > > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish > > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > > > > > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > > > > > > <> " on the > > web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <? > > > > > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > > Ashram. > > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > > Krishna' > > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > > who > > > > said > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > > chart > > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said > that the > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > reading today > > Links > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > > > > Vedic Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology > Sjc Jyotish > > > - ----------- > > > a.. 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Guest guest Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 center"> bold">"Gopijana-vallabha-caranau sharanam font-family:"URW Palladio IT";color:silver;font-weight:bold">prapadye." font-family:"URW Palladio IT";color:silver;font-weight:bold">"Namo gopijana-vallabhabhyam" 12.0pt"> 12.0pt"> Dear Sri Srivastava, Namaste i am not writing full sloka from my notes. Below are the slokas. Please counter check as these slokas are from the Naradiya Purana itself and not from the Naradiya Samhita as indicated by you. Love, Swee shrIbR^ihannAradIyapurANe pUrvabhAge dvitIyapAde bR^ihadupAkhyAne ShaShTitamo.adhyAyaH Chapter 56 brahmadevamanormAna pitryaM sauraM ca sAvanam| cAndramArkShaM gurormAnamiti mAnAni vai navaH||56.109|| Meaning: Measurements of time are Nine; Brahma, Deva, Manu, Pitrya, Saura, Saavana, Chaandra, ArkAha and Guru. eteShAM navamAnAnAM vyavahAro.atra pa~ncabhiH| teShAM pR^ithakpR^ithakkAryaM vakShyate vyavahArataH||56.110|| Meaning: Out of these, for practical purposes, reckon it only through Five. grahANAM nikhilashcAro gR^ihyate saura mAnataH| vR^iShTervidhAnaM strIgarbhaH sAvanenaiva gR^ihyate||56.111|| Meaning: Planetary movements are reckoned through Saura – Solar Measure Pregnancy and rainy season, reckon them from Savana - Civil measure. pravarShaNAM same garbhauM nAkShatreNa pragR^ihyate| yAtrodvAhavratakShaure tithivarSheshanirNayaH||56.112|| Meaning: Use sidereal measure for rains and pregnancy of clouds – nakshatra mana For a pilgrimage, fasting, upanayam, reckon from the Lords of Tithis –lunar day and parvavAstUpavAsAdi kR^itsnaM cAndreNa gR^ihyate| gR^ihyate gurumAnena prabhavAdyabdalakShaNam||56.113|| Meaning: the year, eclipses, setting up home, religious fasts, use Chandra mana – Lunar measure. The year, Prabhava etc., are reckoned from Guru mana -Jovian Year tattanmAsairdvAdashabhistattadaShTau bhavettataH| gurumadhyamacAreNaShaShTyabdAH prabhAvAdayaH||56.114|| Meaning: The Jovian year is made up of 12 months by mean motion of Guru (Jupiter). The rest are the names of the Jovian years, making up to 60, kShaya being the last (sloka120). The name given to year have effects according to their nomenclature. Five years makes up a yuga, 60/5 = 12 yugas in 1 Jovian cycle and each years has a lord; Nmaes of the Lords of the 12 are stated in slokas 122 -123.5, beginning from Vishnu to Bhaga. Sloka 123 states the different years of the yuga beginning from Agni, ending with Ishvara. prabhavo vibhavaH shuklaH pramodo.atha prajApatiH| aNgirAH shrImukho bhAvo yuvA dhAtA tathaiva ca||56.115|| Ishvaro bahudhAnyashca pramAthI vikramo vR^iShaH| citrabhAnuHsubhAnushca tAraNaH pArthivo.avyayaH||56.116|| sarvajitsarvadhArI ca virodhI vikR^itaH kharaH| nandano vijayashcaiva jayo manmathadurmukhau||56.117|| hemalaMbo vilaMbashca vikArI shArvarI lavaH| shubhakR^icchobhanaH krodhI vishvAvasuparAbhavau||56.118|| plavaNgaH kIlakaH saumyaH sAmAptashca virodhakR^it| paribhAvI pramAdI ca Anando rAkShaso.analaH||56.119|| piNgalaH kAlayuktashca siddhArtho raudradurmatIH| dundubhIrudhirodgarI raktAkShaH krodhanaH kShayaH||56.120|| nAmatulyaphalAH sarve vij~neyAH ShaShTivatsarAH| yugaM syAtpa~ncabhirvarShairyugAnyevaM tu dvAdasha||56.121|| teShAmIshAH kramAjj~neyA viShNurdevapurohitaH| purandaro lohita¶ca tvaShTAhirbudhnyasaMj~nakaH||56.122|| pitarashca tato vishve shashIndrAdgnayashino bhagaH| tathA yugasya varShe shAstvagninenduvidhIshvarAH||56.123|| 12.0pt"> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold"> [] On Behalf Of Swami Daivyaga Friday, March 10, 2006 3:43 PM Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? 12.0pt"> 12.0pt"> II Om Gurave Namah II Hari om , Friends, Please excuse me for my entery in vexed question. I seek permission to quote only few sloka from scripture,that may be of some help or thought provoking. To my faint memory it is from Narad Sahmita.Please remember Narada was a Rishi.So if sloka is correctly in scriputure found one can follow it. "Grahaadan nikhilam ...........pratipadakam" This simply translated means To do calculations or observing rites use Saurman for year,Use Savanmaan for determining conception and duration of pregnancy To determine rains use Nakashtraman,To obverseve Journey,marriage fast,vrita vastu festivals use Lunar year.Samvatsar start be taken from Chaitra shukla and adopt jovian year(Brahispatyara) Year based on movement of Nakshtra is called Nakshtra maas.Savan maas is defined as thirty days recokening a day from sun rise to next sunrise.Serially from sun sankranti and from Pratipada reckon chandra maas. Thus various length of years are used for different purposes.Traditionally in north india in Rajasthan Gujrat and UP i did found calculations of Vimshottari dasa invariably on basis of sun degrees in a table called " Vimshottari dasachakra". They quoted only position of SUN in Rasi degree minutes and seconds to indicate start of dasa and bhukti along with samvatsar.While adding degrees minutes balance of ghati and pals were corresondingly added. Evidently it was 360 degrees=one year. Hope my quote will apprise to some extent the uses of Years in olden days. Please ignore this post if you consider it out of context. (For lack of my precesion in sanskart fonts i am not writing full sloka from my notes.Hoping an excuse.) HARI OM TATSAT ------------------------ R.C.Srivastava Consulting Astrologer E-mail : swami_rcs 12.0pt"> 199,MMIG "Guru Kripa" Shaheed Nagar. AGRA 282001 India Ph +91-562-223-2323 Mob +91 94122 68768 http://www.cosmograce.com http://www.cosmograce.blogspot.com ------------------------ margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> font-family:Arial">- Graham Fox font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold"> font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">Friday, March 10, 2006 3:27 AM font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">[Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? 12.0pt"> Dear tw853 and Visti, Visti, since you ask, I suppose I would say that a "lunar nakshatra year" (I suppose that's what you mean, as other planets go through nakshatras as well) is either 12 sidereal lunar months (327.85 days) or 13 sidereal lunar months (355.17 days). (327.85 is actually given as a dasa-year option in some Vedic astrology programs.) But the relationship between the position of the moon in a given nakshatra at the time of birth and the length of time-periods in an individuals's life is a traditional and symbolic one (it does not have an astronomical basis: solar, lunar or other). So The "key" used to convert that nakshatra position into actual Gregorian (or whatever) years should also be traditional and symbolic. It's exactly the same as the question of what "key" to use for primary directions in traditional Western astrology: the traditional Ptolemaic key is analog to an "ideal" 360 day year for dasas (it works out as the MEAN value between 1 solar year and 12 lunar months ie. 360 tithis). Naibod's "improved" key is like your 365.25 day year, only tropical rather than sidereal (only about 20 minutes difference). font-family:"Courier New""> Dear tw853 (I wish I knew your name...): As you say about dasa numerical shares (6 for Sun, 10 for Moon, etc): "These shares hold the same proportion in all periods, Dasha, Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO)". Of course I absolutely agree, in terms of proportions it make no difference at all what length of symbolic or astronomical year we use, by definition a proportion is always proportional to the value we choose in the first place. The sums you give work out just fine, whatever year length we choose. It's just more complicated working out the proportions for the true solar year than for a 360-day one, which is why many 365-day astrologers (as you already pointed out) calculated remainders of years on a 360-day basis, to make things quicker and easier. Computers now make this unnecessary, of course, so this short-cut is used less and less. Very best wishes Graham font-family:"Courier New""> --- In , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > Dear Graham and Varuna, Namaskar > How will you define a Nakshatra year? Is it the time that the Sun takes to 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > transit all the nakshatras? Or is it the time the Moon takes? > I was thinking about your 'idea' about the savana year, but i haven't seen 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > any festival dates being based on this. Infact they are all based on Tithi 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > and Maasa. > You may argue that the festival happens on the sunrise (dina) of the > particular tithi, but this is not so for celebrations such as Shivratri or 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > other festivals which occur at night. > The point i was trying to make was; the Savana year is a linear calendar > used to measure time, and thus the astronomical calculations need to be 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > converted to this, to be able to measure when an event will happen. People > won't understand event-times given in degrees, but they will understand > months and dates. So if your clients are using a savana calendar, then > surely this will be helpful to them, but if they are using a gregorian > calendar, then the astronomical degrees need to be converted into times and 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > dates as accordingly. Still you are using the Sidereal-Solar year, which is 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > what Mantresvara in Phala Deepika is trying to convey. > As for the qoutes from Surya Siddhanta, again those spans were converted > into Savana days for useful reference. The length of a year as given in the > Satya Yuga cannot be used today, as the earth is said to be moving closer > and closer to the Sun, hence also the length of the year will be slowly > diminishing. > font-family:"Courier New""> > Btw, i have not found any sloka in the Surya siddhanta giving the span of 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > the year in days. This is something one must find through inference from the > calculations given. I was once told that the Surya siddhanta infact takes 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > into account this slow diminishing of the years, but for now i haven't > spotted this. > I hope others will also benefit from this. > Best wishes, > *** 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > Visti Larsen > For services and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > *** 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> > > [] On > Behalf Of Graham Fox > 09 March 2006 01:03 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > font-family:"Courier New""> > Dear Varun > Thank you for this information. As I think you've gathered, I agree font-family:"Courier New""> > with you. I'm still experimenting as to whether I find dasha balance font-family:"Courier New""> > by degree or by time the best way. You advocate by time. > 360 savana year is in a sense an "ideal" year, not a practical year font-family:"Courier New""> > for farming or everyday things, but a year length which in very many font-family:"Courier New""> > ancient civilisations throughout the world has been used for > prophetic and astrological purposes (the oldest prophetic books in > the Hebrew Old Testament, the Maya priestly and astrological year > and "long count", the ancient Greek chronocrators or time lords, > which is a system of of planetary periods deriving probably from > Indian, Sumerian or Egyptian roots. It's also used to calculate kaal- > bala strength as per Parasara. Most list members seem to feel it is font-family:"Courier New""> > not to be used for Hindu dasas. At present, I agree with you rather font-family:"Courier New""> > with the majority. But let's all keep experimenting and keep open > minds. > Thanks to all for this lively discussion. > Graham > font-family:"Courier New""> > , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd@> > wrote: > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > Dear Graham ji, > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in classic font-family:"Courier New""> > > astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of 360 font-family:"Courier New""> > > days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey varsh. font-family:"Courier New""> > > The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth > nakshatra. > > It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal }time and font-family:"Courier New""> > > the time still due { bhogya kaal }. > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that > particular > > place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give the font-family:"Courier New""> > > duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is > > published from. > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary > from 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to > be 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still due font-family:"Courier New""> > > for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani > nakshatra , > > the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those > born 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these > three > > nakshatra may not be the same. > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { > > bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked > out. 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of > venus > > within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 > days 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration. > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > With naman to all gurujan, > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > Varun Trivedi > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear "tw853" and Visti > > > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to > > make > > > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that font-family:"Courier New""> > in 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days font-family:"Courier New""> > is 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems font-family:"Courier New""> > > > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > > > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is > in 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > fact correct according to Indian usage. > > > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do > not - > > > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar > > degrees > > > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 > days). > > > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying font-family:"Courier New""> > a 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention > Usha 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. font-family:"Courier New""> > > This > > > is interesting, and needs investigating. > > > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one font-family:"Courier New""> > > > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and > Raman's > > > development therefrom) and another for dasa years. > > > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > dasa > > > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there. > > > Thank you > > > Graham > > > > > > , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 > is 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > reposted below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION > > > > > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY > > > > > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next font-family:"Courier New""> > > > sunrise.- > > > > - > > > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun font-family:"Courier New""> > > > rise.-- > > > > - > > > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > that > > > the > > > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on font-family:"Courier New""> > > the > > > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > > > (365.25 > > > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October font-family:"Courier New""> > & 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > November 2000) > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR > > > > > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978) > > > > > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000) > > > > > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 font-family:"Courier New""> > D/Y 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Graha > > > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days > > > > respectively) > > > > > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98) > > > > > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the font-family:"Courier New""> > > > civil > > > > year.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI); > > > > > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > > > somehow "Lunar" > > > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) font-family:"Courier New""> > > long, > > > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > e/ Other Quotations > > > > > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day > year 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > the > > > > following quotes speak of this: > > > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the font-family:"Courier New""> > > > heavens, > > > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this > > > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17- > 18.)"Twelve > > > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? font-family:"Courier New""> > In 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get > > > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A > year 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > has > > > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > > > Brahmana > > > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.) > > > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > > > (365.25 > > > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The font-family:"Courier New""> > > year > > > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > > > sacrificial > > > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the > > > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS). > > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > Astronomy) > > > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > article) > > > > > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > > > intricacies > > > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder font-family:"Courier New""> > of 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, font-family:"Courier New""> > and 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > > > velocity > > > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, > people > > > who > > > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking > that 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas font-family:"Courier New""> > > > talked > > > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis font-family:"Courier New""> > > this > > > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day > > > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless > > > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 font-family:"Courier New""> > day 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with > > oranges, > > > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > > > situation > > > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH > SASTRI's > > > > article) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > fixed > > on > > > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are > named > > as > > > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.-- > - 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one > > > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- > > (KSK, > > > > Reader I, p 97); > > > > > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not > considered- > > -- > > > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular- - 365 days not a year--- > > have > > > to > > > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, font-family:"Courier New""> > p 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 69) > > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length font-family:"Courier New""> > of 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose font-family:"Courier New""> > > > after > > > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Lunar > > > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar font-family:"Courier New""> > > year > > > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > > > Inspite > > > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such font-family:"Courier New""> > as 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa > > calculation > > > is > > > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one > round > > of > > > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02) 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > > > f/ Other Quotations > > > > > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic > astronomical > > > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13) > > > > > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati--- > > > > pala---- vipala- prativipala > > > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366 > > > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25 > > > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30 > > > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30 > > > > > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48 > > > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15 > > > > > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------ > > > > 22------ 30 > > > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------ > > > > 06 > > > > > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala font-family:"Courier New""> > = 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 60 > > > > prativipala] > > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > Astronomy) > > > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's > article) > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y > > > > > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the > > world > > > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is > universally > > > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The > > > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the > > solar > > > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The > > followers > > > of > > > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years > arealways > > > less > > > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA" > > > > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent font-family:"Courier New""> > > with > > > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > > > (6.25x6) > > > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year font-family:"Courier New""> > > > after > > > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari font-family:"Courier New""> > > dasa, > > > the > > > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- > with 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)---- > > because > > > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y > by 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > 5.25 > > > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN) > > > > > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y --- 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > saying > > > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month > for 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated > > operative > > > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual > > period. > > > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would > turn 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > out > > > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while font-family:"Courier New""> > > he > > > has > > > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- font-family:"Courier New""> > > > (H.R. > > > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article) > > > > > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > terms > > > of > > > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using > the 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > 360 > > > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of > > 432000 > > > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence, > > > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha > > > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil > (savanamana) > > > 360 > > > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > > > between > > > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can > amount > > to > > > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 > D/Y 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN) > > > > > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is font-family:"Courier New""> > > > whether > > > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y > (365x120= > > > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for > 1y 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > to > > > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y- > Gregorian > > > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; > Moon 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on. > > > > > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y > > Moon, > > > 7y > > > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu > and 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > 20y > > > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Dasha, > > > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), > giving > > > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120) > > > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) font-family:"Courier New""> > and 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > so > > > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y font-family:"Courier New""> > + 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= font-family:"Courier New""> > 20 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= > 5m:2d; > > > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx > 12x30= > > > 23d; > > > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)= > > > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ font-family:"Courier New""> > > Rah= > > > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > > > rathematics > > > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and font-family:"Courier New""> > so 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > on > > > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri > > > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James font-family:"Courier New""> T. font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Braha, > > > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All font-family:"Courier New""> > > > India > > > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this > simple > > > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for > > discussion. > > > In > > > > other words, all tables should be the same. > > > > > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > > > mentined > > > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> of font-family:"Courier New""> > > 360 > > > D/Y > > > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or > formulars, > > > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why > > > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using font-family:"Courier New""> > a 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > 360 > > > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. > Thus 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > DASAS > > > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS --- > > > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12 > > > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of > 360 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > D/Y > > > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for font-family:"Courier New""> > > Moon > > > are > > > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without > > > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > V-A-WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ? > > > > > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > this 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or font-family:"Courier New""> > > must > > > eb > > > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97) > > > > > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a > > month > > > and > > > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI) > > > > > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" > > indicate > > > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord > and 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > dasha > > > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, --- > > > quoting > > > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's > > article) > > > > > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter font-family:"Courier New""> > > WHAT > > > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to font-family:"Courier New""> > > use > > > > 365.25 days - no matter "who says what", but this preference > is 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > based > > > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see > > things > > > in > > > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 > rather > > > than > > > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares - as long as it font-family:"Courier New""> > > > works > > > > for me. So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL > need 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > to > > > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > > > simultaneously > > > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081) > > > > > > > > > > > > V-B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ? 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better > results > > > with > > > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR) > > > > > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so. > > > > > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis font-family:"Courier New""> > > of > > > 365 > > > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him > better > > > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Preface > > > > to the Second Edition) > > > > > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been > done 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > which > > > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari > > > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a > > small > > > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the > great 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India > all 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > used > > > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over- > > > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI) > > > > > > > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION > > > > > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a font-family:"Courier New""> > > year > > > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120 > > > > years. > > > > > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 > > (Sanjay > > > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), font-family:"Courier New""> > > KPAstro > > > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara > > Light > > > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have font-family:"Courier New""> > > been > > > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 font-family:"Courier New""> > & > > > 2953) > > > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days font-family:"Courier New""> in font-family:"Courier New""> > a 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa > > period > > > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates. > > > > > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference > per 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > year, > > > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of > > difference > > > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day- > year 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all font-family:"Courier New""> > > > tables > > > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP > table > > or > > > > non-KP table because it is mathematics. > > > > > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > > using a > > > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > > > Mahadasa > > > > calculation. > > > > > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. > Krishnamurti > > and > > > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay > Rath, > > V. > > > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard > > Houck, > > > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, font-family:"Courier New""> > > A.K. > > > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, > > P.V.R. > > > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y > > > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of font-family:"Courier New""> > > 365 > > > D/Y > > > > advocates. > > > > > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y > > > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other > than 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Hira > > > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who font-family:"Courier New""> > > are > > > > found until now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES > > > > > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology > > > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha" > > > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp > > > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > > > Astrology, > > > > pp 54-56 > > > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64 > > > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54 > > > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris > > > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara > > > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23) > > > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226 > > > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events > > > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western > > > > Astrologer, p 223 > > > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081 > > > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176 > > > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325 > > > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118- 135 > > > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary > Dasa- 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > Period", KP Annual 2004 > > > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events font-family:"Courier New""> > through > > > Dasa > > > > and Transit, pp 97-98 > > > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I > > > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75 > > > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61 > > > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > > Astrology, > > > > pp 4-5 > > > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978 > > > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56 > > > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3" > > > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm > > > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 > Days", > > > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004 > > > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, font-family:"Courier New""> > p 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > 154 > > > > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf > > > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha > > > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari > > Mahadasa?", > > > Oct > > > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine > > > > > > > > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long > > > > _ > > > > year/how_long_year_1.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Graham Fox" > <fox.graham@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > > > length > > > > in > > > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year font-family:"Courier New""> > > is > > > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical > > agricultural > > > > etc > > > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, > ie. 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation font-family:"Courier New""> > > to > > > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 > day 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > das > > > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial font-family:"Courier New""> > > > year, > > > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and > in 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > other > > > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana > > dina" > > > > is > > > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the > basic > > > > unit > > > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You font-family:"Courier New""> > > may > > > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. font-family:"Courier New""> > > But > > > > it > > > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > > > calculated > > > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > > > reference > > > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations > is 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > in > > > > the > > > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > > > appreciate > > > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, font-family:"Courier New""> > > but > > > > some > > > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > > > dismissed > > > > > too lightly. > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > Graham > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > year > > > > > reconned by > > > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar font-family:"Courier New""> > in 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > use > > > > > for the > > > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > was 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > the > > > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > > > Calendar. > > > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk font-family:"Courier New""> of font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Solar > > > > > year here in > > > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > > > Mantresvara. > > > > I > > > > > have not > > > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > dasa > > > > > length other > > > > > > than this. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > *** > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > [] On 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17 > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > 365 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > days? > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick, > > > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > > > interpretation > > > > > of > > > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > given > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> year font-family:"Courier New""> > > in > > > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that > the 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > very > > > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an > > article > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > > > computation - > > > > > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the font-family:"Courier New""> > > > web), > > > > > to > > > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka > in 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > as "By > > > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should font-family:"Courier New""> > > in > > > > fact > > > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in font-family:"Courier New""> > > > that > > > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days > in 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) font-family:"Courier New""> > need 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > a > > > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > material > > > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some > > scholars > > > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> in font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > actual > > > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > so 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > many > > > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360- day font-family:"Courier New""> > > > year > > > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > reduce > > > the > > > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > > > 120x360 > > > > = > > > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > 432000" > > > > (not > > > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > Kali- 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > yuga, > > > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions). > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication font-family:"Courier New""> > > of > > > > year > > > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > does, > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala > in 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should font-family:"Courier New""> > > be > > > > > used. > > > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of > kilter. > > Dr > > > > > Raman > > > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his font-family:"Courier New""> > > > practical > > > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha > > and > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 font-family:"Courier New""> > > and > > > 30 > > > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > luni- > > > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the > solar > > > > year > > > > > of > > > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic > > lunar > > > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, font-family:"Courier New""> > > > following > > > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > calculation > > > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > year") > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > per 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > the > > > > > > Surya Siddhanta. > > > > > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology font-family:"Courier New""> > > forum, > > > > and > > > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, > both 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > backed > > > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical > > principles, > > > > but > > > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his font-family:"Courier New""> or font-family:"Courier New""> > > her > > > > > views > > > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > it's > > > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make font-family:"Courier New""> up font-family:"Courier New""> > > our > > > > > mind. > > > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm > happy > > > that > > > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, > and 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > find > > > > > it > > > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I > think > > > > > Visti's > > > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the font-family:"Courier New""> > > view > > > > of > > > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very best wishes > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" > <visti@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM > > bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > > > prakalpyaaH||" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> it font-family:"Courier New""> > > next > > > > > > arrives at the > > > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is > > also > > > > > > considered as > > > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > same 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > the > > > > > days > > > > > > are also > > > > > > > calculated|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude font-family:"Courier New""> > to 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > find > > > > > > the year. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > > > <http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > > > http://astrovisti.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > [] On 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman > > > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > but > > > > I'd > > > > > be > > > > > > more than > > > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do font-family:"Courier New""> prefer font-family:"Courier New""> > > > this > > > > > one > > > > > > in 360 > > > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > understand > > > > > > clearly this > > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > > Ashram. > > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > Krishna' > > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the font-family:"Courier New""> Great font-family:"Courier New""> > > who > > > > said > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > chart > > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev > > > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU > > > > > > 4fmYDwY > > > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz > > > > > > TK1sUgW > > > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free > > > > > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt- > > > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish > > > > > > > </gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ > > > > > > wPEOiQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group " > > > > > > > <> " on the > web. 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <? > > > > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > Ashram. > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > Krishna' > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > who 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > > > said > > > > > that the > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free font-family:"Courier New""> > chart > > > > > reading today > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> > font-family:"Courier New""> > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the 10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""> > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > Links > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 II Om Gurave Namah IIHari om , Swee Nameste. Delighted to see your mail.I am thankful for nice mail. In fact about 26 years ago I made some notes at city Allahabd from some old books borrowed from Library .I was reading Sarvarth Chintamanni and Narad samhita The later work one was published by Venkaytesh press. May be I might have erred saying it Samhita instead of Narad Puran . I do not have that book as it was a borrowed one , I cosider your notes are refreshing. thank you once again. HARI OM TATSAT------------------------R.C.SrivastavaConsulting AstrologerE-mail : swami_rcs 199,MMIG "Guru Kripa"Shaheed Nagar. AGRA 282001IndiaPh +91-562-223-2323 Mob +91 94122 68768http://www.cosmograce.comhttp://www.cosmograce.blogspot.com------------------------ - Swee Chan ; sohamsa ; SJCA Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:17 PM RE: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? "Gopijana-vallabha-caranau sharanam prapadye." "Namo gopijana-vallabhabhyam" Dear Sri Srivastava, Namaste i am not writing full sloka from my notes. Below are the slokas. Please counter check as these slokas are from the Naradiya Purana itself and not from the Naradiya Samhita as indicated by you. Love, Swee shrIbR^ihannAradIyapurANe pUrvabhAge dvitIyapAde bR^ihadupAkhyAne ShaShTitamo.adhyAyaH Chapter 56 brahmadevamanormAna pitryaM sauraM ca sAvanam|cAndramArkShaM gurormAnamiti mAnAni vai navaH||56.109|| Meaning: Measurements of time are Nine; Brahma, Deva, Manu, Pitrya, Saura, Saavana, Chaandra, ArkAha and Guru. eteShAM navamAnAnAM vyavahAro.atra pa~ncabhiH|teShAM pR^ithakpR^ithakkAryaM vakShyate vyavahArataH||56.110|| Meaning: Out of these, for practical purposes, reckon it only through Five. grahANAM nikhilashcAro gR^ihyate saura mAnataH|vR^iShTervidhAnaM strIgarbhaH sAvanenaiva gR^ihyate||56.111|| Meaning: Planetary movements are reckoned through Saura – Solar Measure Pregnancy and rainy season, reckon them from Savana - Civil measure. pravarShaNAM same garbhauM nAkShatreNa pragR^ihyate|yAtrodvAhavratakShaure tithivarSheshanirNayaH||56.112|| Meaning: Use sidereal measure for rains and pregnancy of clouds – nakshatra mana For a pilgrimage, fasting, upanayam, reckon from the Lords of Tithis –lunar day and parvavAstUpavAsAdi kR^itsnaM cAndreNa gR^ihyate|gR^ihyate gurumAnena prabhavAdyabdalakShaNam||56.113|| Meaning: the year, eclipses, setting up home, religious fasts, use Chandra mana – Lunar measure. The year, Prabhava etc., are reckoned from Guru mana -Jovian Year tattanmAsairdvAdashabhistattadaShTau bhavettataH|gurumadhyamacAreNaShaShTyabdAH prabhAvAdayaH||56.114|| Meaning: The Jovian year is made up of 12 months by mean motion of Guru (Jupiter). The rest are the names of the Jovian years, making up to 60, kShaya being the last (sloka120). The name given to year have effects according to their nomenclature. Five years makes up a yuga, 60/5 = 12 yugas in 1 Jovian cycle and each years has a lord; Nmaes of the Lords of the 12 are stated in slokas 122 -123.5, beginning from Vishnu to Bhaga. Sloka 123 states the different years of the yuga beginning from Agni, ending with Ishvara. prabhavo vibhavaH shuklaH pramodo.atha prajApatiH|aNgirAH shrImukho bhAvo yuvA dhAtA tathaiva ca||56.115|| Ishvaro bahudhAnyashca pramAthI vikramo vR^iShaH|citrabhAnuHsubhAnushca tAraNaH pArthivo.avyayaH||56.116|| sarvajitsarvadhArI ca virodhI vikR^itaH kharaH|nandano vijayashcaiva jayo manmathadurmukhau||56.117|| hemalaMbo vilaMbashca vikArI shArvarI lavaH|shubhakR^icchobhanaH krodhI vishvAvasuparAbhavau||56.118|| plavaNgaH kIlakaH saumyaH sAmAptashca virodhakR^it|paribhAvI pramAdI ca Anando rAkShaso.analaH||56.119|| piNgalaH kAlayuktashca siddhArtho raudradurmatIH|dundubhIrudhirodgarI raktAkShaH krodhanaH kShayaH||56.120|| nAmatulyaphalAH sarve vij~neyAH ShaShTivatsarAH|yugaM syAtpa~ncabhirvarShairyugAnyevaM tu dvAdasha||56.121|| teShAmIshAH kramAjj~neyA viShNurdevapurohitaH|purandaro lohita¶ca tvaShTAhirbudhnyasaMj~nakaH||56.122|| pitarashca tato vishve shashIndrAdgnayashino bhagaH|tathA yugasya varShe shAstvagninenduvidhIshvarAH||56.123|| [] On Behalf Of Swami DaivyagaFriday, March 10, 2006 3:43 PMTo: Subject: Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? II Om Gurave Namah IIHari om , Friends, Please excuse me for my entery in vexed question. I seek permission to quote only few sloka from scripture,that may be of some help or thought provoking. To my faint memory it is from Narad Sahmita.Please remember Narada was a Rishi.So if sloka is correctly in scriputure found one can follow it. "Grahaadan nikhilam ..........pratipadakam" This simply translated means To do calculations or observing rites use Saurman for year,Use Savanmaan for determining conception and duration of pregnancy To determine rains use Nakashtraman,To obverseve Journey,marriage fast,vrita vastu festivals use Lunar year.Samvatsar start be taken from Chaitra shukla and adopt jovian year(Brahispatyara) Year based on movement of Nakshtra is called Nakshtra maas.Savan maas is defined as thirty days recokening a day from sun rise to next sunrise.Serially from sun sankranti and from Pratipada reckon chandra maas. Thus various length of years are used for different purposes.Traditionally in north india in Rajasthan Gujrat and UP i did found calculations of Vimshottari dasa invariably on basis of sun degrees in a table called " Vimshottari dasachakra". They quoted only position of SUN in Rasi degree minutes and seconds to indicate start of dasa and bhukti along with samvatsar.While adding degrees minutes balance of ghati and pals were corresondingly added. Evidently it was 360 degrees=one year. Hope my quote will apprise to some extent the uses of Years in olden days. Please ignore this post if you consider it out of context. (For lack of my precesion in sanskart fonts i am not writing full sloka from my notes.Hoping an excuse.) HARI OM TATSAT------------------------R.C.SrivastavaConsulting AstrologerE-mail : swami_rcs 199,MMIG "Guru Kripa"Shaheed Nagar. AGRA 282001IndiaPh +91-562-223-2323 Mob +91 94122 68768http://www.cosmograce.comhttp://www.cosmograce.blogspot.com------------------------ - Graham Fox Friday, March 10, 2006 3:27 AM [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? Dear tw853 and Visti,Visti, since you ask, I suppose I would say that a "lunar nakshatra year" (I suppose that's what you mean, as other planets go through nakshatras as well) is either 12 sidereal lunar months (327.85 days) or 13 sidereal lunar months (355.17 days). (327.85 is actually given as a dasa-year option in some Vedic astrology programs.) But the relationship between the position of the moon in a given nakshatra at the time of birth and the length of time-periods in an individuals's life is a traditional and symbolic one (it does not have an astronomical basis: solar, lunar or other). So The "key" used to convert that nakshatra position into actual Gregorian (or whatever) years should also be traditional and symbolic. It's exactly the same as the question of what "key" to use for primary directions in traditional Western astrology: the traditional Ptolemaic key is analog to an "ideal" 360 day year for dasas (it works out as the MEAN value between 1 solar year and 12 lunar months ie. 360 tithis). Naibod's "improved" key is like your 365.25 day year, only tropical rather than sidereal (only about 20 minutes difference). Dear tw853 (I wish I knew your name...): As you say about dasa numerical shares (6 for Sun, 10 for Moon, etc): "These shares hold the same proportion in all periods, Dasha,Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO)". Of course I absolutely agree, in terms of proportions it make no difference at all what length of symbolic or astronomical year we use, by definition a proportion is always proportional to the value we choose in the first place. The sums you give work out just fine, whatever year length we choose. It's just more complicated working out the proportions for the true solar year than for a 360-day one, which is why many 365-day astrologers (as you already pointed out)calculated remainders of years on a 360-day basis, to make things quicker and easier. Computers now make this unnecessary, of course, so this short-cut is used less and less.Very best wishesGraham --- In , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote:>> ||Hare Rama Krsna||> Dear Graham and Varuna, Namaskar> How will you define a Nakshatra year? Is it the time that the Sun takes to> transit all the nakshatras? Or is it the time the Moon takes?> I was thinking about your 'idea' about the savana year, but i haven't seen> any festival dates being based on this. Infact they are all based on Tithi> and Maasa.> You may argue that the festival happens on the sunrise (dina) of the> particular tithi, but this is not so for celebrations such as Shivratri or> other festivals which occur at night.> The point i was trying to make was; the Savana year is a linear calendar> used to measure time, and thus the astronomical calculations need to be> converted to this, to be able to measure when an event will happen. People> won't understand event-times given in degrees, but they will understand> months and dates. So if your clients are using a savana calendar, then> surely this will be helpful to them, but if they are using a gregorian> calendar, then the astronomical degrees need to be converted into times and> dates as accordingly. Still you are using the Sidereal-Solar year, which is> what Mantresvara in Phala Deepika is trying to convey.> As for the qoutes from Surya Siddhanta, again those spans were converted> into Savana days for useful reference. The length of a year as given in the> Satya Yuga cannot be used today, as the earth is said to be moving closer> and closer to the Sun, hence also the length of the year will be slowly> diminishing. > > Btw, i have not found any sloka in the Surya siddhanta giving the span of> the year in days. This is something one must find through inference from the> calculations given. I was once told that the Surya siddhanta infact takes> into account this slow diminishing of the years, but for now i haven't> spotted this. > I hope others will also benefit from this.> Best wishes,> ***> Visti Larsen> For services and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com> ***> > -----Original Message-----> [] On> Behalf Of Graham Fox> 09 March 2006 01:03> > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days?> > Dear Varun> Thank you for this information. As I think you've gathered, I agree > with you. I'm still experimenting as to whether I find dasha balance > by degree or by time the best way. You advocate by time.> 360 savana year is in a sense an "ideal" year, not a practical year > for farming or everyday things, but a year length which in very many > ancient civilisations throughout the world has been used for > prophetic and astrological purposes (the oldest prophetic books in > the Hebrew Old Testament, the Maya priestly and astrological year > and "long count", the ancient Greek chronocrators or time lords, > which is a system of of planetary periods deriving probably from > Indian, Sumerian or Egyptian roots. It's also used to calculate kaal-> bala strength as per Parasara. Most list members seem to feel it is > not to be used for Hindu dasas. At present, I agree with you rather > with the majority. But let's all keep experimenting and keep open > minds.> Thanks to all for this lively discussion.> Graham> > --- In , "varun_trvd" <varun_trvd@> > wrote:> >> > Dear Graham ji,> > > > Vinshottari dasha is based on the Nakshatra. Therefore in classic > > astrology a year , for vinshottari dasha , is taken to be of 360 > > days or what is known in classical astrology as Nakshtreey varsh. > > The starting dasha is of the planet who lords that birth > nakshatra. > > It is worked out in terms of the elapsed { bhukta kaal }time and > > the time still due { bhogya kaal }.> > > > Step one: find out the duration of the nakshatra at that > particular > > place where the birth takes place. Normally the Panchangs give the > > duration at the longitude of the place where the panchang is > > published from.> > > > Step two : Each nakshatra is not equal to 60 ghati , they vary > from > > 58 ghati to 62 ghati or in between. Therefore , the dasha has to > be > > worked out on the basis of the time elapsed and the time still due > > for birth nakshatra. Suppose some one is born in Bharani > nakshatra , > > the starting dasha will be that of Venus , so will be for those > born > > in Porva Phalguni and Poorva ashad. The duration of all these > three > > nakshatra may not be the same.> > > > Step three : Working out proportionally , the dasha still due { > > bhogya dasha kaal } is known and from there the rest is worked > out. > > Deduct 5 days for each year counted. If the antar dasha is of > venus > > within the venus maha dasha is for 3 years 4 months , deduct 17 > days > > from the English dates to arrive at the exact duration.> > > > With naman to all gurujan,> > > > Varun Trivedi> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@> > > wrote:> > >> > > Dear "tw853" and Visti> > > Thank you very much for all these references, which help us to > > make > > > up our minds in an informed way. Visti was right in saying that > in > > > Indian calendars the savana year of 360 sunrise-to-sunrise days > is > > > considered "civil". I would not have used that term, as it seems > > > more ceremonial than practical and linked to everyday human > > > activities, but I recognise that Visti's use of terminology is > in > > > fact correct according to Indian usage.> > > Some people do indeed seem to confuse days with tithis. I do > not - > > > as I said, 360 is the mean value between a year of 360 solar > > degrees > > > (just over 365.25 days) and 360 lunar tithis (approx 354.37 > days).> > > I notice that you quote the Surya Siddhanta as giving specifying > a > > > year of 365.15.31.30 days/ghatis/palas etc, but also mention > Usha > > > and Shashi basing their advocacy of the 360 day year on the SS. > > This > > > is interesting, and needs investigating.> > > You also don't deal with the question of why there should be one > > > year length for calculation of kaal bala (as per BPHS and > Raman's > > > development therefrom) and another for dasa years.> > > But I accept that my current preference for 360-day "year" for > > dasa > > > is very minority, and the discussion should doubtless stop there.> > > Thank you> > > Graham> > > > > > --- In , "tw853" <tw853@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > For your information my review in KP Group on March 15, 2005 > is > > > > reposted below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 360 D/Y vs 365.25 D/Y DISCUSSION> > > > > > > > 1. DEFINATION OF A DAY> > > > > > > > a/ the definition starts with the day. One sunrise to next > > > sunrise.-> > > > -> > > > - (RAICHUR, Msg #2978)> > > > > > > > b/ the interval of time between successessive occasion of sun > > > rise.--> > > > -> > > > (KSK, Reader I, p 97)> > > > > > > > c/ From a study of the Vedas and astronomical texts we find > > that > > > the> > > > Sun is the basis for measuring time. That the year is based on > > the> > > > seasons which is again based on the movement of the Sun. --- > > > (365.25> > > > D/Y advocate JYOTISH SASTRI, Astrlogical Magazine<AM>, October > &> > > > November 2000)> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. NAMES OF A YEAR> > > > > > > > 2. (1) NAMES OF 360 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ (i) SAVAN YEAR, (ii) CIVIL YEAR --- (RAICHUR, Msg #2978)> > > > > > > > b/ SAVANA MANAM --- (KSK, Reader I, p 97);> > > > > > > > c/ SAVANA YEAR ---(JYOTISH SASTRI, AM, Oct & Nov 2000)> > > > > > > > d/ neither a SOLAR nor a LUNAR nor a LUNI-SOLAR year--- (360 > D/Y> > > > advocate N. SUNDARA RAJAN, AM, Jan 2004, quoting B. V. Raman's > > > Graha> > > > and Bhava Balas saying --- a year and month of 360 and 30 days> > > > respectively)> > > > > > > > 2. (2) NAMES OF 365 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ (i) SOLAR YEAR, (ii) SOURAMAN--- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ SOURA MANAM--- ( KSK, Reader I, p 97-98)> > > > > > > > c/ ENGLISH CALENDAR YEAR ---(N. SUNDARA RAJAN)> > > > > > > > d/ SOLAR YEAR --- (JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. DEFINATION OF 360 & 365 D/Y> > > > > > > > 3. (1) DEFINATION OF 360 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ 360 such days make up the "savan year". This is called the > > > civil> > > > year.--- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ 360 days in Soura Manam ---(KSK, Reader I, p 97)> > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 360 days--- (JYOTISH SASTRI);> > > > > > > > d/ 360 days (360 tithis or 12 lunar month)--- (N. SANDRA RAJAN)> > > > > > > > e/ The unspoken assumption is that a 360 day year is > > > somehow "Lunar"> > > > which is not 360 days long but rather 360 tithis (lunar days) > > long,> > > > which is about 354.36 solar days long.--- (JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > e/ Other Quotations> > > > > > > > (i) In the Vedas and Puranas there is mention of a 360 day > year > > the> > > > following quotes speak of this:> > > > "The wheel (of time) having twelve spokes revolve round the > > > heavens,> > > > but it does not wear out. Oh Agni! 720 pairs of sons ride this> > > > wheel." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.22 (BJS vol. 1, pp. 17-> 18.)"Twelve> > > > spoke boards, one wheel, three navels. Who understands these? > In> > > > these are 360 Shankus (rods) put in like pegs which do not get> > > > loosened." Rg Veda Samhita 1.164.48 (BJS vol. 1, p. 18.)"A > year > > has> > > > 360 days, a year has 720 days and nights together." Aitareya > > > Brahmana> > > > 7.17 (BJS vol. 1, p. 20.)> > > > The 360 day year doesn't refer to the length of a solar year > > > (365.25> > > > days) or lunar year (360 tithis, about 354.36 solar days). The > > year> > > > of 360 days is called a Savana year and used strictly for > > > sacrificial> > > > purposes particularly for the Soma-yajna as explained in the> > > > following quote from Dikshit's Bharatiya Jyotisha Sastra (BJS).> > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > Astronomy)> > > > published by the Government of India ---(JYOTISH SASTRI's > > article)> > > > > > > > (ii) The problem arises because of not understanding the > > > intricacies> > > > of the luni-solar calendar and making the very serious blunder > of> > > > equating tithi with day. A tithi is not equal to a solar day, > and> > > > varies in length from about 19 to 26 hours depending on the > > > velocity> > > > of the Moon. So taking this misconception a step further, > people > > > who> > > > were not steeped in Vedic calendric tradition began thinking > that> > > > since old text books and manuals used by traditional Panditas > > > talked> > > > of years with 12 months of 30 tithis and a year of 360 tithis > > this> > > > must be the same as years with 12 months of 30 days and 360 day> > > > years. This, then, is how we have become entangled in a useless> > > > controversy of whether the Mahadasa should be measured in 360 > day> > > > years or 365 day years. This is like comparing apple with > > oranges,> > > > you cannot equate a tithi with a day. By doing so you get a > > > situation> > > > in which the two systems diverge with time. ---(JYOTISH > SASTRI's> > > > article)> > > > > > > > > > > > 3. (2) DEFINATION OF 365 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ The other is the Solar Year. "Souraman". The months are > fixed > > on> > > > Basis of the Sun's entry into each Rashi. Thus months are > named > > as> > > > MESHA, Vrishabha, etc. This year naturally has 365.2425 days.--> -> > > > (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ 365.25 days (interval of time taken by Sun to leave any one> > > > position in the Zodiac and again reach the same position)--- > > (KSK,> > > > Reader I, p 97);> > > > > > > > c/ to avoid complexity in calculation ---365 d/y not > considered-> > --> > > > 360 d/y accepted---if so particular- - 365 days not a year---> > have > > > to> > > > go for another 6h-9m-9.50 sec. ---( K.R. KAR, KP Anuual 2004, > p > > 69)> > > > > > > > c/ to measure a year by 325.2 days (A solar year is the length > of> > > > time from one vernal equinox to the next.)--- Confusion arose > > > after> > > > the British introduced the Gregorian calendar into India, then > > > Lunar> > > > tithis became mistakenly equated with Solar days and the Lunar > > year> > > > of 360 tithis became confused with a solar year of 360 days. > > > Inspite> > > > of this confusion pre-British classics in Vedic astrology such > as> > > > Phala Dipika clearly state that the year for Mahadasa > > calculation > > > is> > > > 365 day year.---(JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > d/ 365.25 days (the time taken by the Sun to complete one > round > > of> > > > the Zodiac) ---(N. SANDARA RAJAN)> > > > > > > > e/ 365.2425 days (KPASTRO 2.0 and JAGNANNATHA HORA 7.02)> > > > > > > > f/ Other Quotations> > > > > > > > (i) Length of the year according to different Vedic > astronomical> > > > texts (BJS vol. 2, p. 13)> > > > > > > > --------------------------- days------------ ghati---> > > > pala---- vipala- prativipala> > > > Vedanga Jyotisa------- 366> > > > Pitamaha Siddhanta--- 365----21------ 25> > > > Pulisa Siddhanta------ 365---- 15------ 30> > > > Surya Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 31------ 30> > > > > > > > Romaka Siddhanta---- 365---- 14----- 48> > > > 1st Arya Siddhanta--- 365---- 15------ 31------ 15> > > > > > > > Brahmagupta Siddhanta------- 365---- 15------ 30------> > > > 22------ 30> > > > 2nd Arya Siddhanta-- 365---- 15----- 31------ 17------> > > > 06> > > > > > > > [1 ghati = 24 minutes = 60 pala, 1 pala = 60 vipala, 1 vipala > = > > 60> > > > prativipala]> > > > > > > > Source: Bharatiya Jyotish Sastra (BJS-History of Indian > > Astronomy)> > > > published by the Government of India (In Jyotish Satri's > article)> > > > > > > > > > > > 4. SIGNIFICANCEOF 360 D/Y VERSUS 365 D/Y> > > > > > > > a/ The Savan yaer as such is not in use in any part of the > > world> > > > now. It is theGregorian Year of 365.2425 days that is > universally> > > > used. The other is the PureLunar Year of about 340 days. The> > > > panchangs in India correct this and bring itin line with the > > solar> > > > year, by adding one ADHIKA MASA every 3 years or so.The > > followers > > > of> > > > Islam, do not make any such adjustment. So their years > arealways > > > less> > > > than the Georgian, or Panchang Years.--- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ If 360 D/y rather than 365 D/y is used for "MAHADASA"> > > > calculation, the gap between them would become more divergent > > with> > > > dasa period---6.25 days (365.25-360) after 1 year, 31.5 days > > > (6.25x6)> > > > after 5 years,-----about 6 months after 35 years, a whole year > > > after> > > > 70 years;--- (JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > c/ Taking 365.25 D/Y to calculate 120 years of Vimshottari > > dasa, > > > the> > > > total number of years will increase by 630 days (6.5x120)--- > with> > > > compared to the maximumlongevity of 43200 days (360x120)----> > because> > > > each solar year (365.25 D/Y) exceeds the Vimshottari 360 D/Y > by > > > 5.25> > > > days.--- (N. SANDARA RAJAN)> > > > > > > > c/ In AM, Oct 1973, Hira Gulrajani advocated 360 D/Y ---> saying> > > > there would be cumulative difference by as much as one month > for> > > > every 6 years of age of the native between the indicated > > operative> > > > period under Vimsottari and that of what he terms as actual > > period.> > > > If we are to go with him in his line of thinking, it would > turn > > out> > > > that a native may have to celebrate his 72 birthday even while > > he > > > has> > > > yet to complete his 71st year under Vimsottari reckoning.---- > > > (H.R.> > > > SHANKAR, AM, Jan 1974/ JYOTISH SASTRI' s article)> > > > > > > > e/ The vimshottari dasha cycle is of 120 years duration. In > > terms > > > of> > > > solar years this would amount to 43830 days, whereas, using > the > > 360> > > > days years, this amounts to 43200 days, which is 1/3600th of > > 432000> > > > years, the total duration of kaliyuga, could be a coincidence,> > > > perhaps! --- whether to take a year for vimshottari dasha> > > > determination as the solar 365 day one or the civil > (savanamana) > > > 360> > > > day year. Adopting either creates an incremental discrepancy > > > between> > > > the dasha periods used by proponents of either, this can > amount > > to> > > > more than six months by the time one is 40 years old----(360 > D/Y> > > > advocate ROHINI RAJAN)> > > > > > > > f/ The real issue being discussed till the cows come home is > > > whether> > > > to take 365 D/Y (365.25x120=43830d for 120y) or 360 D/Y > (365x120=> > > > 43200d) because the difference is accelerating from 5.25 for > 1y > > to> > > > 63od for 120y. As per simple arthmetics, in 365.25 D/Y-> Gregorian> > > > calender, Sun Mahadasa is legged behind about 6x5.25= 31.5d; > Moon> > > > Mahadasa 10x5.25= 52.5d and so on.> > > > > > > > g/ Out of total 120 years shares are given 6y to Sun, 10y > > Moon, > > > 7y> > > > Mars, 18y Rahu, 16y Jupiter, 19y Sturn, 17y Mercury, 7y Ketu > and > > > 20y> > > > to Venus. These shares hold the same propotion in all periods, > > > Dasha,> > > > Bhukti, Anthara, Sookshama and so on (B. SURYANARAIN RAO), > giving> > > > Bhukti= Dasha period (Bhukti /120); Anthara= D (B/120)> > > > (Anthara /120); Sukshama= D (B/120) (A/120) (Sukshama/120) > and > > so> > > > on, e.g.. Venus Dasa/ Saturn Bhukti= 20 (19/120)= 3.166667= 3y > +> > > > 0.166667x12=3y:2m; Venus Dasa/ Satrun Bhukti/Jupiter Anthara= > 20> > > > (19/120)(16/120)= 0.422222y= 0.422222x12= 5m:0.066666x30d= > 5m:2d;> > > > Ven/Jup/Rahu/ Sat= 20(16/120)(18/120)(19/120)= 0.063333yx > 12x30= > > > 23d;> > > > Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer= 17(20/120)(19/120)(16/120)(17/120)=> > > > 0.0084737yx12x30= 3d or up to 6th level Mer/Ven/Sat/Jup/Mer/ > > Rah=> > > > 0.0084737(18/120)x12x30= 11 hours and so on. This simple > > > rathematics> > > > will give the same durations of Bhukti, Anthara, Sukshama and > so > > on> > > > in any dasa duration table, KSK Reader, KP Emphemeris, Lahiri> > > > Emphemeris, any astrology text book of J. N. Bhasin, James T. > > > Braha,> > > > David Frawley, Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda, B.V. Raman, All > > > India> > > > Astrological Services etc. If anything different from this > simple> > > > calculations, there is an error for correction not for > > discussion. > > > In> > > > other words, all tables should be the same.> > > > > > > > h/ Using 12m-a-year and 30d-a-month is 360 D/Y is taken for> > > > convenience and for calculation of sub sub (DBAS) periods as > > > mentined> > > > by KSK. This 360D/Y-based DBAS durations are used in any of > > 360 > > > D/Y> > > > & 365 D/Y options and there are no different tables or > formulars,> > > > like KP or non-KP because this is mathematics. That is why> > > > application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean using > a > > > 360> > > > D/Y as long as 356 D/Y is applied in Mahadasa calculation. > Thus > > > DASAS> > > > TO BE ENJOYED BY VIDUN K VIDYADHARAN, VIMSOTTARI DASAS ---> > > > BHUKTIES-- calculated by -- THE METHOD USED IS THE 1 YEAR =12> > > > MONTHS: 1 MONTH=30 DAYS--- (Msg 2970) is not a simluation of > 360 > > > D/Y> > > > option. It is a 365 D/Y option because 6y for Sun, 10y for > > Moon > > > are> > > > taken in full in 365.25-D/Y-based Gregorian calendar without> > > > shortening a 5.25-day-year difference.> > > > > > > > > > > > V-A-WHICH ONE, 360 OR 365 D/Y, TO APPLY ?> > > > > > > > a/ In one of the Granthas relied upon, it is advised to use > this> > > > year only forududasa (vimsottari dasa). --- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ Only Soura Manam of 365.25 days alone is to be adopted or > > must > > > eb> > > > taken---for Udu dasa.----(KSK, Reader I, p 97)> > > > > > > > c/ In this system (Vimsottari dasa) only 30 days comprise a > > month > > > and> > > > a year of 365 days.---( BEPIN BEHARI)> > > > > > > > d/ Usha-Shashi in their "Hindu Astrological Calculations" > > indicate> > > > that the astrological year that is to be used for year lord > and > > > dasha> > > > determinations is one that has 12 months of 30 days each, ---> > > quoting> > > > this as Surya Siddhanta's recommendation. (ROHINI RAJAN's > > article)> > > > > > > > e/ PERSONAL PREFERENCE - that is the bottom line - no matter > > WHAT> > > > numbers you use to cut the cards. My personal preference is to > > use> > > > 365.25 days - no matter "who says what", but this preference > is > > > based> > > > solely on my ability to successfully line up events and see > > things > > > in> > > > a chart more clearly (for myself personally) using 365.25 > rather > > > than> > > > 360 days. Is it right? Who knows and who cares - as long as it > > > works> > > > for me. So my point is that the bottom line is that we ALL > need > > to> > > > use what WORKS for us as INDIVIDUAL astrologers, while > > > simultaneously> > > > respecting the personal preferences of others. (Msg #2081)> > > > > > > > > > > > V-B-- DOES 360 D/Y GIVE "BETTER" RESULTS THAN 365 D/Y ?> > > > > > > > a/ Some Vedic asrtologer's say they are getting better > results > > > with> > > > Savan Year andan ayanams Laheri-53 minutes .--- (RAICHUR)> > > > > > > > b/ N. Sundara Rajan and Rohini Ranjan say so.> > > > > > > > c/ All his successful predictions have been given on the basis > > of > > > 365> > > > days only and Sadasiva Giri illustrates 360 d/y give s him > better> > > > results.--- (KN Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, > > > Preface> > > > to the Second Edition)> > > > > > > > d/ No statistical study or any other method has ever been > done > > > which> > > > could prove that the 360 d/y should be applied in Vimsottari> > > > Mahadasa. Ultimately it all boils down to the "opinion" of a > > small> > > > group of astrologers that their method is better. All the > great> > > > Panditas that I studied with, in North, East and South India > all > > > used> > > > the regular solar year of 365 days, and so do the vast, over-> > > > whelming, majority of Vedic astrologers. ---(JYOTISH SASTRI)> > > > > > > > > > > > VI--CONCLUSION> > > > > > > > 1) The real issue is whether to take 360 days or 365 days in a > > year> > > > with a difference of 5.25 per year to 630 day for the whole 120> > > > years.> > > > > > > > 2) 360 D/Y Vimsottari dasa results of Jagannantha Hora 7.02 > > (Sanjay> > > > Rath's school), Jyotish Tools (V.K. Choudhry's SA school), > > KPAstro> > > > 2.0, Fortune Discoverer Ver.6.0, Goravani Jyotish, Parashara > > Light> > > > 6.1, Astroworks, Shri Jyothi Star and manual calculations have > > been> > > > seen generally the same. (Msg # 2036, 2823, 2865, 2916, 28807 > & > > > 2953)> > > > Nothing is wrong with SWs as per their setting of "360 days in > a> > > > year" and "360x120=43200 days" for the whole 120 years dasa > > period> > > > as advocated by 360 D/Y advocates.> > > > > > > > 3) As per basic mathematics of 365.25-360= 5.25d difference > per > > > year,> > > > 360 D/Y Mahadasa durations are shortened by that rate of > > difference> > > > with compared to 365.25 D/Y option or in terms of 365.25-day-> year> > > > Gregorian calender. Also as per simple ratio rathemetics, all > > > tables> > > > of dasa sub sub durations are the same, and there is no KP > table > > or> > > > non-KP table because it is mathematics.> > > > > > > > 4) Application of 360D/Y-based sub sub tables does not mean > > using a> > > > 360 D/Y calculation option as long as 356 D/Y is applied in > > > Mahadasa> > > > calculation.> > > > > > > > 5) Almost all East and West vedic astrologers K.S. > Krishnamurti > > and> > > > KP astrolgers , B.V. Raman, K.N. Rao, Bepin Behari, Sanjay > Rath, > > V.> > > > K. Choudhry, J.N. Basin, K.S. Charak, Sumeet Chugh, Richard > > Houck,> > > > James T. Braha, David Frawley, Hart de Foue , Robert Svoboda, > > A.K.> > > > Kar, M.N. Kedar, Jagdish Maheshri, M.S. Mehta, C. S. Patel, > > P.V.R.> > > > Rayudu, Chakrapani Ullal and many others have used 365 D/Y> > > > Vimshottari dasa without giving attention to the aruments of > > 365 > > > D/Y> > > > advocates.> > > > > > > > 5) It will be very interesting to know the names of 360 D/Y> > > > astrologers (with their credit of articles and books) other > than > > > Hira> > > > Gulrajani, N. Sundara Rajan, Rohini Ranjan, Sadasiva Giri who > > are> > > > found until now.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > REFERENCES> > > > > > > > 1) G.S. Agarwal: Practical Vedic Astrology> > > > 2) All India Astrological Services, "Know your Dasha"> > > > http://www.hinduastrology.org/learnastrology/dasha.asp> > > > 3) K.S. Charak: Yogas in Astrology; Subtlesties of Medical > > > Astrology,> > > > pp 54-56> > > > 4) Sumeet Chugh: Timing of Events, pp 56-64> > > > 5) Richard Houck: Astrology of Death, p 54> > > > 6) B. Bala: PROF. K. S. KRISHNAMURTI'S Advance Emphemeris> > > > for 1991 to 2000 (Table of Duration of Dasa, Bhukti and Anthara> > > > in Vimshottari Dasa, pp 19-23)> > > > 7) J. N. Bhasin: Art of Prediction, pp 222-226> > > > 8) Bepin Behari, The Timing of Events> > > > 9) James T. Braha: Ancient Hindu Astrology for the Western> > > > Astrologer, p 223> > > > 10) Sandy Crowther, Msg #2081> > > > 11) David Frawley: Astrology of the Seers, p 175-176> > > > 12) Hart de Foue & Robert Svoboda: Light on Life, pp 323-325> > > > 13) A.K. Gour: The Celestial Delivery Boy, TRANSIT, pp 118-135> > > > 14) K.R. Kar, "In Quest of Origin of Parasar,s Vimshottary > Dasa-> > > > Period", KP Annual 2004> > > > 15) M.N. Kedar: Judgement of Bhavas & Timing of Events > through > > > Dasa> > > > and Transit, pp 97-98> > > > 16) K.S. Krishnamurti, KP Reader I> > > > 17) Jagdish Maheshri: It's All in Timing, pp 74-75> > > > 18) M. S. Mehta: Planets and Travel Abroad, pp 60-61> > > > 19) Chandulal S. Patel: Predicting Through Navamsa & Nadi > > > Astrology,> > > > pp 4-5> > > > 20) ANANT RAICHUR, Msg #2978> > > > 21) B.V. Raman: Hindu Predictive Astrology, p 55-56> > > > 22) Rohini Ranjan, "For Beginners in Jyotish-3"> > > > http://www.boloji.com/astro/00308b.htm> > > > 23) N. Sundara Rajan, "Dasa-Bhukti Computation- 360 or 365 > Days",> > > > Astrological Magazine, January 2004> > > > 24) b. Suryanarain Rao: Strijataka or Female Horoscopy, 1964, > p > > > 154> > > > > http://www.sulekha.com/content/epress/samples/EB_RAMAN_015_S.pdf> > > > 25) K.N. Rao: Timing Events Through Vimshottari Dasha> > > > 26) Jyotish Sastri, "How Long is a Year In Vimsottari > > Mahadasa?", > > > Oct> > > > & Nov 2000 Astrological Magazine> > > > > > > > > > http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/Shyama_site/what_is_jyotish/how_long> > > > _> > > > year/how_long_year_1.htm> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , "Graham Fox" > <fox.graham@> > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > I do not know, either, of any other reference to dasa year > > > length > > > > in > > > > > the classics. But I'm surprised that you say the savana year > > is > > > > > the "civil year", reckoned by humans, and compare it to the > > > > > Gregaorian year. Humans have always, for practical > > agricultural > > > > etc > > > > > purposes, reckoned the year tropically, by the solstices, > ie. > > > > > 365.25, and the Gregorian year is a very close approximation > > to > > > > > that, not to a 360 day year. Even supporters of the 365.25 > day > > > das > > > > > year recognise that the savana year was in fact a ceremonial > > > year, > > > > > used for religious purposes by priests in Vedic times (and > in > > > > other > > > > > ancient cultures, such as the Mayas).Savana in fact does not > > > > > mean "civil", but "based on consecutive sunrises"; "savana > > dina" > > > > is > > > > > an apparent solar day. So the question is really, is the > basic > > > > unit > > > > > of time an apparent solar day or an apparent solar year? You > > may > > > > > very well be right that 365.25 days should be used for dasa. > > But > > > > it > > > > > is strange, in that case,that shadbala should not also be > > > > calculated > > > > > based on 365.25 day year, and strange also that the only > > > reference > > > > > by Parasara to a year length for astrological calculations > is > > in > > > > the > > > > > section on shadbala - and it's 360, savana. > > > > > I respect your point of view and your experience, and I > > > appreciate > > > > > that the majority of Indian astrologers use a 365 day year, > > but > > > > some > > > > > experienced ones prefer 360, so I don't think it should be > > > > dismissed > > > > > too lightly.> > > > > Best wishes> > > > > Graham> > > > > --- In , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna||> > > > > > Dear Graham, Namaskar> > > > > > 360-day year is called a Savana Year, and was used much > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > the> > > > > > current gregorian calendar. It is the civil-year, or the > > year > > > > > reconned by> > > > > > humans. The SOLAR year should be adjusted to the calendar > in > > > use > > > > > for the> > > > > > particular place, and for that particular time period it > was > > > the> > > > > > Savana-calendar, whilst we today are using the Gregorian > > > > Calendar.> > > > > > Either way we cannot avoid the fact that there is talk of > > > Solar > > > > > year here in> > > > > > use for timing... There is no ambiguity in this by > > > Mantresvara. > > > > I > > > > > have not> > > > > > seen any references coming from Jyotish classics for the > > dasa > > > > > length other> > > > > > than this.> > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > ***> > > > > > Visti Larsen> > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > ***> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On> > > > > > Behalf Of Graham Fox> > > > > > 06 March 2006 18:17> > > > > > To: > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or > 365 > > > > days?> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti and Annick,> > > > > > Thank you for raising this point. I think Visti's > > > interpretation > > > > > of > > > > > > Mantreswara is probably correct (it corresponds to that > > given > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > lengthy document available on the web, "How long is a year > > in > > > > > > vimsottari mahadasa" by Shyamasundara, published by the > > > > > > Bhaktidevanta College). However, it is interesting that > the > > > very > > > > > > same sloka from the Phaladipeeka has been cited in an > > article > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > Astrological Magazine of January 2004, "Dasa-Bhukti > > > computation -> > > > > > > > > > 360 or 365 days," by Sundara Rajan (again available on the > > > web), > > > > > to > > > > > > support exactly the opposite view. Rajan gives the sloka > in > > > > > > devanagari, and stresses that the expression you translate > > > > as "By > > > > > > subdividing the same, the days are also calculated" should > > in > > > > fact > > > > > > be translated "proportionately, work out number of days in > > > that > > > > > > year". This he takes to mean "apply the year of 360 days > in > > > > > > proportion to the year of 365.25 days." The remark by > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > would thus be a reminder that dasa years (of 360 days) > need > > a > > > > > > proportional conversion to bring them into line with the > > > > material > > > > > > solar year (at least in the present epoch, since some > > scholars > > > > > > maintain that at a time in the distant past, there were in > > > > actual > > > > > > fact 360 days in a year, which would help to explain why > so > > > many > > > > > > ancient cultures kept this tradition of an "ideal" 360-day > > > year > > > > > > alive). Rajan goes on to explain: "Actually this will > reduce > > > the > > > > > > vimsottari total by 630 days or roughly 2 years" Indeed, > > > 120x360 > > > > = > > > > > > 432000 days "one -tenth of the Kali-yuga duration of > 432000" > > > > (not > > > > > > everyone would agree with Rajan about length in days of > Kali-> > > > yuga, > > > > > > but his figure does correspond to numerous traditions).> > > > > > > > > > > > Also, it should be noted that Parasara gives no indication > > of > > > > year > > > > > > length for dasa (perhaps he thought it was obvious). He > > does, > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > other hand, make it clear that for calculating kaal-bala > in > > > > > > shadbala, a year of 360 days and a month of 30 days should > > be > > > > > used. > > > > > > Otherwise the calculation of the year and month lords > > > > > (abdadhipathi > > > > > > and masadhipathi) would be completely thrown out of > kilter. > > Dr > > > > > Raman > > > > > > (who rather paradoxically used the 365 day year in his > > > practical > > > > > > calculations of dasa) makes this clear in his book "Graha > > and > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > Balas", p.42 item 59: "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > > > > > > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 > > and > > > 30 > > > > > > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor > > luni-> > > > > > solar". (In fact, 360 is exactly the mean value of the > solar > > > > year > > > > > of > > > > > > 365.25 days and the lunar year of 360 tithis (12 synodic > > lunar > > > > > > months, just over 354 solar days). Raman demonstrates, > > > following > > > > > > Parasara, how the the year lord must be worked out by a > > > > > calculation > > > > > > involving a division by 360 ("the number of days in a > year") > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > number of DAYS since creation (shrishtyadi ahargana), as > per > > > the > > > > > > Surya Siddhanta.> > > > > > > > > > > > This subject has come up before on the Vedic Astrology > > forum, > > > > and > > > > > > I've noticed that there are the two different opinions, > both > > > > > backed > > > > > > up by quotations from the classics or by classical > > principles, > > > > but > > > > > > that in the end (not surprisingly), nobody changes his or > > her > > > > > views > > > > > > or practice, and the discussion eventually subsides. But > > it's > > > > > > interesting nevertheless, and helps each of us to make up > > our > > > > > mind. > > > > > > The 360-day year seems to work better for me, and I'm > happy > > > that > > > > > > (some) others, who "know more about it than me", agree, > and > > > find > > > > > it > > > > > > effective and historically justified. But I repeat, I > think > > > > > Visti's > > > > > > interpretation of Mantreswara is probably correct -- but > > > > > Mantreswara > > > > > > was perhaps not infallible. I would appreciate having the > > view > > > > of > > > > > > other Sanskrit scholars on this sloka, and this question.> > > > > > > > > > > > Very best wishes> > > > > > Graham> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Visti Larsen" > <visti@> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna||> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Annick, Namaskar> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We at SJC follow those who know better.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantresvara in his Phala Deepika writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Chapter 19, sloka 4||> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ravisphuTaM tajjanane yadaasIt tathaa > > > > > vidhashcetprativarShamarkaH| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aavR^ittayaH santi dashaabdakaanaaM > > bhaagakramattaddivasaaH > > > > > > prakalpyaaH||"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In english; Take the degree of the Sun and mark when it > > next > > > > > > arrives at the> > > > > > > same position. This is considered as one year| This is > > also > > > > > > considered as> > > > > > > one year for the Udu dasa system. By subdividing the > same > > > the > > > > > days > > > > > > are also> > > > > > > calculated||> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to be more acurate, we use the exact solar longitude > to > > > > find > > > > > > the year.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com or > > > > > > <http://astrovisti.com>> > > > > > > http://astrovisti.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [] On> > > > > > > Behalf Of Annick Bidreman> > > > > > > 05 March 2006 13:25> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Vimshottari dasa> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that in SJC, Vimshottari dasa 365 days is used ; > > but > > > > I'd > > > > > be > > > > > > more than> > > > > > > happy to now exactly why, because some authors do prefer > > > this > > > > > one > > > > > > in 360> > > > > > > days, arguing occult reasons, and so on.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll be very simple a query for you, but I need to > > > understand > > > > > > clearly this> > > > > > > question.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annick> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~> > > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > > Ashram. > > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > > Krishna'> > > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > > who > > > > said > > > > > > that the> > > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> > > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > > chart > > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Fr> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ee+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=TFfY_0AVmaAw4qhDev> > > > > > lqgA> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vedic> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astro> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=EC27o4pU> > > > > > 4fmYDwY> > > > > > > rEv2UNA> astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Free+vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology&w3=Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=5Nz> > > > > > TK1sUgW> > > > > > > PYpsiOIYz9Qg> vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sjc> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Sjc&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Free> > > > > > > > > +vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=LK0R4qI0eEt-> > > > > > c1XWsVsDlQ> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotish> > > > > > > </gads?> > > > > > t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Free+vedic+astrology&w4=Sjc&w5=Jyotish&c=5&s=80&.sig=_AQUTPx5Xwom5CFJ> > > > > > wPEOiQ>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Visit your group "> > > > > > > <> " on the > web.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <?> > > > > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Your use of Groups is subject to the > > > > > > > <> Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~> > > > > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > Ashram. > > > > > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > Krishna'> > > > > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great > who > > > said > > > > > that the> > > > > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> > > > > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > chart > > > > > reading today > > > > > > Links> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~> Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna'> (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the> human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > Links> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Om Krishna Guru Namaste Visti Ji, May I ask you, what year definition you use for 1) Nakshatra Dasa's such as Vimosottari etc., 2) Rasi Dasa's such as Narayana Dasa ?. Thanks for your reply in advance. Regards Raghunatha Rao , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > Dear Graham, Namaskar > Surely you cannot make out whether its day or night using the Lunar, Solar, > Jovian or Sidereal calendar. This is when the Savana calendar is used. BUT, > the Savana calendar is used to figure out the particular day of an event. > i.e. which days does Sankranti occur, or which days does a certain tithi > occur. The savana calendar has no other use. > But then again i can only know what i have learnt. The parampara teaches > that the month begins with the entry of the Sun into that particular sign, > and the day on which it occurs is considered the lord of the month. > Similarly the entry of Sun into aries marks the begining of the year, and > the day on which it occurs indicates the lord of the year. > Best wishes, > *** > Visti Larsen > For services and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > *** > > > [] On > Behalf Of Graham Fox > 18 March 2006 15:47 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > Dear Visti, > Thank you for your clarification about this. I find your explanation > complicated, so I'll have to think about it carefully to try to get > my head around it! I'm sure you're probabaly right, but at the > moment I still can't see how we could get a coherent year and month- > lord sequence using a true solar year counted from Creation. My > edition of BPHS is indeed, as you say, not explicit, and I was > relying on Raman's interpretation of it. As I understand it, you are > clearly saying that Raman is wrong to say (in "Graha and Bhava > Balas", p.42 item 59): "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- > solar". His interpretation of Parasara's way to calculate kaal- bala, > where the year and month lords must be worked out by a calculation > involving a division of shrishtyadi ahargana (days since Creation) > by 360 ("the number of days in a year", as he says) must also be > wrong. > So I have to decide whose analysis to follow on this question! > Thank you very much for your kind attention and patience. > Graham > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > I've looked at the sloka about kala bala, and it seems you must > have the > > Sharma edition? The calculation that you mention is about > calculating the > > Varsha, Masa, Dina and Hora Bala, i.e. Year, Month, Day and Hour > strength. > > Here the point is to find the planet lording that particular year, > month, > > day, etc. and by virtue of its lordship it gains strength. > > > > How to do this is then referred to in Surya Siddhanta by Sharma, > because > > PARASARA DOESN'T SAY HOW. When referring to Surya Siddhanta i see > that the > > sloka qouted in BPHS by Sharma is very abridged. Infact the > calculation > > details finding the ammount of days passed since the creation. > Here the > > yugas are initially added, converted into months, added to the > lunar/solar > > months which are again converted into savana months and lastly > into days and > > thus also savana days (as savana days imply the visible day). > > By performing such a conversion at the time of the suns entry into > Aries or > > ones sunsign, one can find the planet lording the year and month > > respectively, based on the weekday at that time. The planet > lording the day > > is the weekday of birth itself. > > However, this doesn't mean that savana years were used to > calculate the > > yugas and all, but are again used in conversion to figure out the > visible > > day for sake of judging the weekday lords. > > So the argument about kala bala cannot be accepted based on this. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > *** > > > > > > > [] On > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > 17 March 2006 13:13 > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or > 365 days? > > > > Dear Swee, > > Thank you for this clarification, which gives weight to the > argument > > for using solar sidereal year in a number of cases: I notice that > > number of days in Maha yuga as per Narada Purana works out at very > > close to 4,320,000 sidereal solar years, whereas the figure for > > savana years is less coherent. And of course, planetary positions > > must be calculated as per sidereal positions as in sidereal solar > > year (I don't think anybody questions that). The sloka does not > > specifically say that the year "shares" of vimsottari dasa are to > be > > calculated with solar sidereal year, but this does indeed seem a > > likely implication of the meaning of these slokas. > > There is just the problem that Parasara calculates kaal bala using > a > > 360 day year, counted from Creation (not a solar year), so he must > > be working in some other system of yuga. > > > > Also, your slokas from the Purana indicate that: > > > > "grahANAM nikhilashcAro gR^ihyate saura mAnataH| > > vR^iShTervidhAnaM strIgarbhaH sAvanenaiva gR^ihyate||56.111|| > > > > Meaning: Planetary movements are reckoned through Saura - Solar > > Measure > > Pregnancy and rainy season, reckon them from Savana - Civil > measure." > > > > This seems strange. If people had tried to reckon rainy season > using > > the savana year, they would very quickly have got into difficulty, > > as after just 6 years their calculations would have been more than > > one month out of phase with the seasons (and they would thus be > > expecting the rainy season at the wrong time). > > > > Thanks again for the information. > > Graham > > > > > > , "Swee Chan" <swee@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Gopijana-vallabha-caranau sharanam prapadye." > > > "Namo gopijana-vallabhabhyam" > > > > > > Dear Raghunatha, > > > Namaste > > > > > > I am repeating the sloka below for your attention yet again. > > > > > > grahANAM nikhilashcAro gR^ihyate saura mAnataH| > > > vR^iShTervidhAnaM strIgarbhaH sAvanenaiva gR^ihyate||56.111|| > > > > > > Meaning: Planetary movements are reckoned through Saura - Solar > > Measure. > > > > > > In Narada Purana, Chapter 55 sloka 70 - There are 1,577,917,828 > > terrestrial > > > days in a maha yuga. The time from sunrise to sunrise is a > > terrestrial civil > > > day - bhumi-savana -vasara. > > > > > > Sanjay ji has always recommended the 360 deg solar year. My > > timings are all > > > based on this setting. > > > > > > Love, > > > Swee > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa [sohamsa] > On > > Behalf Of > > > Raghunatha RaoNemani > > > Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:45 PM > > > sohamsa > > > Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > > > > > Om Krishna Guru > > > > > > Namaste Swee Ji, > > > > > > I have been looking for some pointers / answer to this > particular > > > question too. Let me give you a link, where Narasimha Ji had > asked > > a > > > question about 4 years ago about this. Please look at the link > and > > see > > > if you or other Gurus can answer to his question, as I do not > see > > any > > > answer to his question in the archives. > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/8282 > > > > > > Regards > > > Raghunatha Rao > > > > > > sohamsa, "Swee Chan" <swee@> wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste > > > > i am not writing full sloka from my notes. > > > > > > > Below are the slokas. Please counter check as these slokas are > > from > > > the Naradiya Purana itself and not from the Naradiya Samhita as > > > indicated by > you. > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Swee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said > that the > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > reading today > > Links > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > Links > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 ||Hare Rama Krsna|| Dear Raghunatha, Namaskar I use Solar years for all, because only the dvadasa aditya are the real givers of fruits in this world. Best wishes, *** Visti Larsen For services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com *** [] On Behalf Of Raghunatha RaoNemani 19 March 2006 01:16 [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? Om Krishna Guru Namaste Visti Ji, May I ask you, what year definition you use for 1) Nakshatra Dasa's such as Vimosottari etc., 2) Rasi Dasa's such as Narayana Dasa ?. Thanks for your reply in advance. Regards Raghunatha Rao , "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote: > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > Dear Graham, Namaskar > Surely you cannot make out whether its day or night using the Lunar, Solar, > Jovian or Sidereal calendar. This is when the Savana calendar is used. BUT, > the Savana calendar is used to figure out the particular day of an event. > i.e. which days does Sankranti occur, or which days does a certain tithi > occur. The savana calendar has no other use. > But then again i can only know what i have learnt. The parampara teaches > that the month begins with the entry of the Sun into that particular sign, > and the day on which it occurs is considered the lord of the month. > Similarly the entry of Sun into aries marks the begining of the year, and > the day on which it occurs indicates the lord of the year. > Best wishes, > *** > Visti Larsen > For services and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > *** > > > [] On > Behalf Of Graham Fox > 18 March 2006 15:47 > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > Dear Visti, > Thank you for your clarification about this. I find your explanation > complicated, so I'll have to think about it carefully to try to get > my head around it! I'm sure you're probabaly right, but at the > moment I still can't see how we could get a coherent year and month- > lord sequence using a true solar year counted from Creation. My > edition of BPHS is indeed, as you say, not explicit, and I was > relying on Raman's interpretation of it. As I understand it, you are > clearly saying that Raman is wrong to say (in "Graha and Bhava > Balas", p.42 item 59): "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for > astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30 > days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni- > solar". His interpretation of Parasara's way to calculate kaal- bala, > where the year and month lords must be worked out by a calculation > involving a division of shrishtyadi ahargana (days since Creation) > by 360 ("the number of days in a year", as he says) must also be > wrong. > So I have to decide whose analysis to follow on this question! > Thank you very much for your kind attention and patience. > Graham > > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Graham, Namaskar > > I've looked at the sloka about kala bala, and it seems you must > have the > > Sharma edition? The calculation that you mention is about > calculating the > > Varsha, Masa, Dina and Hora Bala, i.e. Year, Month, Day and Hour > strength. > > Here the point is to find the planet lording that particular year, > month, > > day, etc. and by virtue of its lordship it gains strength. > > > > How to do this is then referred to in Surya Siddhanta by Sharma, > because > > PARASARA DOESN'T SAY HOW. When referring to Surya Siddhanta i see > that the > > sloka qouted in BPHS by Sharma is very abridged. Infact the > calculation > > details finding the ammount of days passed since the creation. > Here the > > yugas are initially added, converted into months, added to the > lunar/solar > > months which are again converted into savana months and lastly > into days and > > thus also savana days (as savana days imply the visible day). > > By performing such a conversion at the time of the suns entry into > Aries or > > ones sunsign, one can find the planet lording the year and month > > respectively, based on the weekday at that time. The planet > lording the day > > is the weekday of birth itself. > > However, this doesn't mean that savana years were used to > calculate the > > yugas and all, but are again used in conversion to figure out the > visible > > day for sake of judging the weekday lords. > > So the argument about kala bala cannot be accepted based on this. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com > > *** > > > > > > > [] On > > Behalf Of Graham Fox > > 17 March 2006 13:13 > > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or > 365 days? > > > > Dear Swee, > > Thank you for this clarification, which gives weight to the > argument > > for using solar sidereal year in a number of cases: I notice that > > number of days in Maha yuga as per Narada Purana works out at very > > close to 4,320,000 sidereal solar years, whereas the figure for > > savana years is less coherent. And of course, planetary positions > > must be calculated as per sidereal positions as in sidereal solar > > year (I don't think anybody questions that). The sloka does not > > specifically say that the year "shares" of vimsottari dasa are to > be > > calculated with solar sidereal year, but this does indeed seem a > > likely implication of the meaning of these slokas. > > There is just the problem that Parasara calculates kaal bala using > a > > 360 day year, counted from Creation (not a solar year), so he must > > be working in some other system of yuga. > > > > Also, your slokas from the Purana indicate that: > > > > "grahANAM nikhilashcAro gR^ihyate saura mAnataH| > > vR^iShTervidhAnaM strIgarbhaH sAvanenaiva gR^ihyate||56.111|| > > > > Meaning: Planetary movements are reckoned through Saura - Solar > > Measure > > Pregnancy and rainy season, reckon them from Savana - Civil > measure." > > > > This seems strange. If people had tried to reckon rainy season > using > > the savana year, they would very quickly have got into difficulty, > > as after just 6 years their calculations would have been more than > > one month out of phase with the seasons (and they would thus be > > expecting the rainy season at the wrong time). > > > > Thanks again for the information. > > Graham > > > > > > , "Swee Chan" <swee@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Gopijana-vallabha-caranau sharanam prapadye." > > > "Namo gopijana-vallabhabhyam" > > > > > > Dear Raghunatha, > > > Namaste > > > > > > I am repeating the sloka below for your attention yet again. > > > > > > grahANAM nikhilashcAro gR^ihyate saura mAnataH| > > > vR^iShTervidhAnaM strIgarbhaH sAvanenaiva gR^ihyate||56.111|| > > > > > > Meaning: Planetary movements are reckoned through Saura - Solar > > Measure. > > > > > > In Narada Purana, Chapter 55 sloka 70 - There are 1,577,917,828 > > terrestrial > > > days in a maha yuga. The time from sunrise to sunrise is a > > terrestrial civil > > > day - bhumi-savana -vasara. > > > > > > Sanjay ji has always recommended the 360 deg solar year. My > > timings are all > > > based on this setting. > > > > > > Love, > > > Swee > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa [sohamsa] > On > > Behalf Of > > > Raghunatha RaoNemani > > > Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:45 PM > > > sohamsa > > > Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? > > > > > > Om Krishna Guru > > > > > > Namaste Swee Ji, > > > > > > I have been looking for some pointers / answer to this > particular > > > question too. Let me give you a link, where Narasimha Ji had > asked > > a > > > question about 4 years ago about this. Please look at the link > and > > see > > > if you or other Gurus can answer to his question, as I do not > see > > any > > > answer to his question in the archives. > > > > > > vedic astrology/message/8282 > > > > > > Regards > > > Raghunatha Rao > > > > > > sohamsa, "Swee Chan" <swee@> wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste > > > > i am not writing full sloka from my notes. > > > > > > > Below are the slokas. Please counter check as these slokas are > > from > > > the Naradiya Purana itself and not from the Naradiya Samhita as > > > indicated by > you. > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Swee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said > that the > > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > reading today > > Links > > > ~ om tat sat ~ > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > Links > ~ om tat sat ~ Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna' (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals. (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 II Om Gurave Namah IIHari om , Friend, Thanks visti,a simple statement full of wisdom,How you are inspired to use wonderful words to convey meaningful thoughts. May divine light bless us too. HARI OM TATSAT------------------------R.C.SrivastavaConsulting AstrologerE-mail : swami_rcs 199,MMIG "Guru Kripa"Shaheed Nagar. AGRA 282001IndiaPh +91-562-223-2323 Mob +91 94122 68768http://www.cosmograce.comhttp://www.cosmograce.blogspot.com------------------------ - Visti Larsen ; sohamsa Sunday, March 19, 2006 3:32 PM [Om Krishna Guru] RE: Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days? ||Hare Rama Krsna||Dear Raghunatha, NamaskarI use Solar years for all, because only the dvadasa aditya are the realgivers of fruits in this world.Best wishes,***Visti LarsenFor services and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com***-----Original Message----- [] OnBehalf Of Raghunatha RaoNemani19 March 2006 01:16To: Subject: [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days?Om Krishna GuruNamaste Visti Ji,May I ask you, what year definition you use for 1) Nakshatra Dasa's such as Vimosottari etc.,2) Rasi Dasa's such as Narayana Dasa ?.Thanks for your reply in advance.RegardsRaghunatha Rao, "Visti Larsen" <visti wrote:>> ||Hare Rama Krsna||> Dear Graham, Namaskar> Surely you cannot make out whether its day or night using the Lunar, Solar,> Jovian or Sidereal calendar. This is when the Savana calendar is used. BUT,> the Savana calendar is used to figure out the particular day of an event.> i.e. which days does Sankranti occur, or which days does a certain tithi> occur. The savana calendar has no other use.> But then again i can only know what i have learnt. The parampara teaches> that the month begins with the entry of the Sun into that particular sign,> and the day on which it occurs is considered the lord of the month.> Similarly the entry of Sun into aries marks the begining of the year, and> the day on which it occurs indicates the lord of the year. > Best wishes,> ***> Visti Larsen> For services and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com> ***> > -----Original Message-----> [] On> Behalf Of Graham Fox> 18 March 2006 15:47> > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days?> > Dear Visti,> Thank you for your clarification about this. I find your explanation > complicated, so I'll have to think about it carefully to try to get > my head around it! I'm sure you're probabaly right, but at the > moment I still can't see how we could get a coherent year and month-> lord sequence using a true solar year counted from Creation. My > edition of BPHS is indeed, as you say, not explicit, and I was > relying on Raman's interpretation of it. As I understand it, you are > clearly saying that Raman is wrong to say (in "Graha and Bhava> Balas", p.42 item 59): "The Year and Month: The Hindus, for> astrological purposes, consider a year and a month of 360 and 30> days repectively. They are neither solar, nor lunar, nor luni-> solar". His interpretation of Parasara's way to calculate kaal-bala, > where the year and month lords must be worked out by a calculation> involving a division of shrishtyadi ahargana (days since Creation) > by 360 ("the number of days in a year", as he says) must also be > wrong.> So I have to decide whose analysis to follow on this question!> Thank you very much for your kind attention and patience.> Graham> > > , "Visti Larsen" <visti@> > wrote:> >> > ||Hare Rama Krsna||> > Dear Graham, Namaskar> > I've looked at the sloka about kala bala, and it seems you must > have the> > Sharma edition? The calculation that you mention is about > calculating the> > Varsha, Masa, Dina and Hora Bala, i.e. Year, Month, Day and Hour > strength.> > Here the point is to find the planet lording that particular year, > month,> > day, etc. and by virtue of its lordship it gains strength.> > > > How to do this is then referred to in Surya Siddhanta by Sharma, > because> > PARASARA DOESN'T SAY HOW. When referring to Surya Siddhanta i see > that the> > sloka qouted in BPHS by Sharma is very abridged. Infact the > calculation> > details finding the ammount of days passed since the creation. > Here the> > yugas are initially added, converted into months, added to the > lunar/solar> > months which are again converted into savana months and lastly > into days and> > thus also savana days (as savana days imply the visible day).> > By performing such a conversion at the time of the suns entry into > Aries or> > ones sunsign, one can find the planet lording the year and month> > respectively, based on the weekday at that time. The planet > lording the day> > is the weekday of birth itself.> > However, this doesn't mean that savana years were used to > calculate the> > yugas and all, but are again used in conversion to figure out the > visible> > day for sake of judging the weekday lords.> > So the argument about kala bala cannot be accepted based on this.> > Best wishes,> > ***> > Visti Larsen> > For services and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com or http://astrovisti.com> > ***> > > > > > > [] On> > Behalf Of Graham Fox> > 17 March 2006 13:13> > > > [Om Krishna Guru] Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or > 365 days?> > > > Dear Swee,> > Thank you for this clarification, which gives weight to the > argument > > for using solar sidereal year in a number of cases: I notice that > > number of days in Maha yuga as per Narada Purana works out at very > > close to 4,320,000 sidereal solar years, whereas the figure for > > savana years is less coherent. And of course, planetary positions > > must be calculated as per sidereal positions as in sidereal solar > > year (I don't think anybody questions that). The sloka does not > > specifically say that the year "shares" of vimsottari dasa are to > be > > calculated with solar sidereal year, but this does indeed seem a > > likely implication of the meaning of these slokas.> > There is just the problem that Parasara calculates kaal bala using > a > > 360 day year, counted from Creation (not a solar year), so he must > > be working in some other system of yuga.> > > > Also, your slokas from the Purana indicate that:> > > > "grahANAM nikhilashcAro gR^ihyate saura mAnataH|> > vR^iShTervidhAnaM strIgarbhaH sAvanenaiva gR^ihyate||56.111||> > > > Meaning: Planetary movements are reckoned through Saura - Solar > > Measure> > Pregnancy and rainy season, reckon them from Savana - Civil > measure."> > > > This seems strange. If people had tried to reckon rainy season > using > > the savana year, they would very quickly have got into difficulty, > > as after just 6 years their calculations would have been more than > > one month out of phase with the seasons (and they would thus be > > expecting the rainy season at the wrong time).> > > > Thanks again for the information.> > Graham> > > > > > --- In , "Swee Chan" <swee@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > "Gopijana-vallabha-caranau sharanam prapadye."> > > "Namo gopijana-vallabhabhyam" > > > > > > Dear Raghunatha,> > > Namaste> > > > > > I am repeating the sloka below for your attention yet again.> > > > > > grahANAM nikhilashcAro gR^ihyate saura mAnataH|> > > vR^iShTervidhAnaM strIgarbhaH sAvanenaiva gR^ihyate||56.111||> > > > > > Meaning: Planetary movements are reckoned through Saura - Solar > > Measure.> > > > > > In Narada Purana, Chapter 55 sloka 70 - There are 1,577,917,828 > > terrestrial> > > days in a maha yuga. The time from sunrise to sunrise is a > > terrestrial civil> > > day - bhumi-savana -vasara.> > > > > > Sanjay ji has always recommended the 360 deg solar year. My > > timings are all> > > based on this setting.> > > > > > Love,> > > Swee> > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa [sohamsa] > On > > Behalf Of> > > Raghunatha RaoNemani> > > Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:45 PM> > > To: sohamsa> > > Re: Vimshottari dasa - 360 or 365 days?> > > > > > Om Krishna Guru> > > > > > Namaste Swee Ji,> > > > > > I have been looking for some pointers / answer to this > particular > > > question too. Let me give you a link, where Narasimha Ji had > asked > > a > > > question about 4 years ago about this. Please look at the link > and > > see > > > if you or other Gurus can answer to his question, as I do not > see > > any > > > answer to his question in the archives.> > > > > > vedic astrology/message/8282> > > > > > Regards> > > Raghunatha Rao> > > > > > sohamsa, "Swee Chan" <swee@> wrote:> > > > > > > Namaste> > > > i am not writing full sloka from my notes.> > > > > > > Below are the slokas. Please counter check as these slokas are > > from > > > the Naradiya Purana itself and not from the Naradiya Samhita as > > > indicated by > you.> > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Swee> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > > Links> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~> > Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna'> > (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said > that the> > human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> > (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart > reading today > > Links> >> > > > > > > > ~ om tat sat ~> Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. > Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna'> (2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the> human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.> (3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today > Links>~ om tat sat ~Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram. Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna'(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that thehuman stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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