Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Dear sirs, In my humble opinion, the accomplishments of Chaitanya Mahaparabhu and of Yoganand should be analysed through 11th,10th and 9th houses. When Deha ( body)is formed out of universe all aspects of life as seen in all the 12 bhavas are to be gone through. Dalai Lama during a recent interview, when asked about regret of his life told that he has curiosity about females.This is a stunning reply from a Yougi. Yoganand in his biography describes many aspects of life. Even talked of pleasure of food but omitted about discussion on sex. ( perhaps Victorian/Indian sensabilities). Otherwise we could have got some revealations from the great Yogi as we have from Osho. Mystery of 12th bhava or Moksha can not resolved as there are no check backs or validation. 12th is ultimate mystry! Inder -- In , Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: > Manas....the date of birth of Ron Hubbard is actually 13 Mar 1911, not 1811!! Just realised this morning that he was very much a 20th century man. I just took the date you gave me for generating his chart. A grave error :-( > > His Asc is actually Cancer and his 12th lord mercury is the 8th along with 2nd lord sun. No wonder he made such advancement in spiritualism in a society, which still thinks man is a one-life animal. > > My yesterday's post was full of errors as it was late in the night and I do get "dyslexic" at times (guess it happens with everyone). > > My further apologies to the group. However, I guess the key messages I had to convey are still valid. Please focus on the judgemental aspects of this post and ignore the errors. > > > Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: > Apologies...AK occupies the house of kuja (mars) in both cases. This only indicates a difficult path. > > Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: Okay, a very brief analysis... > > Yogoda: > Leo Asc. Moon the lord of 12th house is in 12th position from the 12th house. i.e., the lord of moksha bhava occupies the lagna or 1st house. This indicates freedom from the cycle of re-birth. Also, as Yogoda himself narrates in his autobiography, that he had taken birth again as a yogi only to complete his journey to the abode of God. His AK is Venus (4th house). It can be observed that moksha karaka ketu is in 12 position from AK. > > Chaitanya Mahaprabhu: > This is a much better example, because this was the Almighty himself in human incarnation. > Again Leo Asc. Moon in the lagna. But moksha karaka ketu has eclipsed the moon, indicating the non-existance of birth cycle. In this case AK is Saturn (4th house). As in Yogoda's chart, we can observe that the AK occupies the house of Ketu. > > Ron Hubbard (of scientology fame): > I also had a quick look Ron's rashi chart on your request. His 12th lord is in 3rd house. The lord of Asc is situated in own house and there by strengthening it. I did not spend much time on this. (Sorry! I will leave it to you to explore) > > > Further D-9, D-24, and D-20 give the source and nature of the journey toward paramatma. D-9 is for the accomplishments of life...D- 24 denotes education and D-24 shows the spiritual evolution. > > Hindus believe that there are three paths or "maarga" ot attain bliss. > - Gyana maarga > - Bhakti maarga > - Yoga maarga > > I will post on the source and nature in detail at a later date. > > > Best wishes, > Niranjan > > > Manas Kumar <manaskumar@h...> wrote: > Niranjan saheb, > > Yoganandji would be undoubtedly a good candidate where mokshaprapti > does not sound far-fetched and so should strongly indicate the > factors in this case. > 5 January 1893, 20:38 hrs (LMT), Gorakhpur, U.P., India > You are also right when you state that interpretations could differ > and indeed we see this happen quite often. I therefore try to avoid > re-engineering, as they say, interpretations given by others. Using > this chart as an example, I hope you would take some time and point > out the specific strong factor/factors that indicate liberation in > Swamiji's chart using the 12th house in rashi chart (or others that > you prefer). > > Another spiritually interesting chart is of the male nativity: > 13 March 1811, 2:01 AM CST, Tilden, Nebraska, USA > > Hardly in the same league as the famous Paramahansa Yoganandji, but > what does this chart indicate, using the 12th house parameters and > liberation? > > Thanks for your time and effort given to this tutorial. > > MKu > > > > , Niranjan Rao > wrote: > > In general it is seen from 12th house in rashi chart. Eg: Ketu > aspecting the 12th etc..so on. > > > > You can also look into the amsa or D charts for specifics. However > the opinions vary depending different schools of thought. Some > people prefer to use AK, while some others prefer to use navamsa, as > they think "liberation" is one of the "bhagya" of human life. My > personal preference is to look from AK ..as it agrees with the > results of 12th bhava. > > > > As long as we remember that astrology is an empirical science and > that the judgements of different astrogers need not agree, this > science will not suffer. > > > > Paramahamsa Yogananda is known to be the most studied yogi in the > modern era. Just like other aspects his life, his birth charts are > also documented in detail. It comes highly recomended as gives the > detailed account on this topic. > > > > Best wishes, > > Niranjan > > > > Manas Kumar wrote: > > would the matters surrounding 'liberation' be learned from the > 12th > > bhava in rashi, or navamsha, vimshamsha or 12th from atmakaraka or > > arudha? Not all of these 12th houses can possibly give the true > > story about liberation. If they can, then astrology kind of looses > > its 'specificity' and some critics do maintain that that is indeed > > the case, hence so many different interpretations of the same > chart > > or yogadi work! > > > > , "occult_oracle" > > wrote: > > > Manasji, > > > > > > I agree. Each horoscope is unique. But I guess the question was > > > generic. > > > > > > My interpretation of the question was as follows: > > > > > > "Utimate truth" is the "ulimate destiny" or "ulitmate bliss". It > > is > > > linked to the liberation of the soul. The 12th house in a > > horoscope > > > tells us about this. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > Niranjan > > > > > > , "Manas Kumar" > > > wrote: > > > > There is a poll at this site for the 'ultimate bhava'. Only > the > > 12 > > > > rashi bhavas are indicated there, so the poll would not allow > > for > > > > other considerations such as: > > > > > > > > bhavas in amshas > > > > padas > > > > bhavas that hold the ultimate dispositor > > > > bhavas that hold the key planet in a horoscope and it is > neither > > > > chandra, lagnesha or atmakaraka, etc -- necessarily or always > > > > bhavas that hold the karaka for one of the three planes that a > > > > horoscope indicates in consonance with human reality. > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that when voting. > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Rao Saheb, Sorry for the unintentional error in the scientology data. Thanks for putting the time in this. I will take a look at what you wrote and add to the discussion any questions I further have. I have a few more charts of lesser 'sants' which we can pursue to study this matter of the role of 12th house in rashi and liberation of the soul. MKu , Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: > Manas....the date of birth of Ron Hubbard is actually 13 Mar 1911, not 1811!! Just realised this morning that he was very much a 20th century man. I just took the date you gave me for generating his chart. A grave error :-( > > His Asc is actually Cancer and his 12th lord mercury is the 8th along with 2nd lord sun. No wonder he made such advancement in spiritualism in a society, which still thinks man is a one-life animal. > > My yesterday's post was full of errors as it was late in the night and I do get "dyslexic" at times (guess it happens with everyone). > > My further apologies to the group. However, I guess the key messages I had to convey are still valid. Please focus on the judgemental aspects of this post and ignore the errors. > > > Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: > Apologies...AK occupies the house of kuja (mars) in both cases. This only indicates a difficult path. > > Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: Okay, a very brief analysis... > > Yogoda: > Leo Asc. Moon the lord of 12th house is in 12th position from the 12th house. i.e., the lord of moksha bhava occupies the lagna or 1st house. This indicates freedom from the cycle of re-birth. Also, as Yogoda himself narrates in his autobiography, that he had taken birth again as a yogi only to complete his journey to the abode of God. His AK is Venus (4th house). It can be observed that moksha karaka ketu is in 12 position from AK. > > Chaitanya Mahaprabhu: > This is a much better example, because this was the Almighty himself in human incarnation. > Again Leo Asc. Moon in the lagna. But moksha karaka ketu has eclipsed the moon, indicating the non-existance of birth cycle. In this case AK is Saturn (4th house). As in Yogoda's chart, we can observe that the AK occupies the house of Ketu. > > Ron Hubbard (of scientology fame): > I also had a quick look Ron's rashi chart on your request. His 12th lord is in 3rd house. The lord of Asc is situated in own house and there by strengthening it. I did not spend much time on this. (Sorry! I will leave it to you to explore) > > > Further D-9, D-24, and D-20 give the source and nature of the journey toward paramatma. D-9 is for the accomplishments of life...D- 24 denotes education and D-24 shows the spiritual evolution. > > Hindus believe that there are three paths or "maarga" ot attain bliss. > - Gyana maarga > - Bhakti maarga > - Yoga maarga > > I will post on the source and nature in detail at a later date. > > > Best wishes, > Niranjan > > > Manas Kumar <manaskumar@h...> wrote: > Niranjan saheb, > > Yoganandji would be undoubtedly a good candidate where mokshaprapti > does not sound far-fetched and so should strongly indicate the > factors in this case. > 5 January 1893, 20:38 hrs (LMT), Gorakhpur, U.P., India > You are also right when you state that interpretations could differ > and indeed we see this happen quite often. I therefore try to avoid > re-engineering, as they say, interpretations given by others. Using > this chart as an example, I hope you would take some time and point > out the specific strong factor/factors that indicate liberation in > Swamiji's chart using the 12th house in rashi chart (or others that > you prefer). > > Another spiritually interesting chart is of the male nativity: > 13 March 1811, 2:01 AM CST, Tilden, Nebraska, USA > > Hardly in the same league as the famous Paramahansa Yoganandji, but > what does this chart indicate, using the 12th house parameters and > liberation? > > Thanks for your time and effort given to this tutorial. > > MKu > > > > , Niranjan Rao > wrote: > > In general it is seen from 12th house in rashi chart. Eg: Ketu > aspecting the 12th etc..so on. > > > > You can also look into the amsa or D charts for specifics. However > the opinions vary depending different schools of thought. Some > people prefer to use AK, while some others prefer to use navamsa, as > they think "liberation" is one of the "bhagya" of human life. My > personal preference is to look from AK ..as it agrees with the > results of 12th bhava. > > > > As long as we remember that astrology is an empirical science and > that the judgements of different astrogers need not agree, this > science will not suffer. > > > > Paramahamsa Yogananda is known to be the most studied yogi in the > modern era. Just like other aspects his life, his birth charts are > also documented in detail. It comes highly recomended as gives the > detailed account on this topic. > > > > Best wishes, > > Niranjan > > > > Manas Kumar wrote: > > would the matters surrounding 'liberation' be learned from the > 12th > > bhava in rashi, or navamsha, vimshamsha or 12th from atmakaraka or > > arudha? Not all of these 12th houses can possibly give the true > > story about liberation. If they can, then astrology kind of looses > > its 'specificity' and some critics do maintain that that is indeed > > the case, hence so many different interpretations of the same > chart > > or yogadi work! > > > > , "occult_oracle" > > wrote: > > > Manasji, > > > > > > I agree. Each horoscope is unique. But I guess the question was > > > generic. > > > > > > My interpretation of the question was as follows: > > > > > > "Utimate truth" is the "ulimate destiny" or "ulitmate bliss". It > > is > > > linked to the liberation of the soul. The 12th house in a > > horoscope > > > tells us about this. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > Niranjan > > > > > > , "Manas Kumar" > > > wrote: > > > > There is a poll at this site for the 'ultimate bhava'. Only > the > > 12 > > > > rashi bhavas are indicated there, so the poll would not allow > > for > > > > other considerations such as: > > > > > > > > bhavas in amshas > > > > padas > > > > bhavas that hold the ultimate dispositor > > > > bhavas that hold the key planet in a horoscope and it is > neither > > > > chandra, lagnesha or atmakaraka, etc -- necessarily or always > > > > bhavas that hold the karaka for one of the three planes that a > > > > horoscope indicates in consonance with human reality. > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that when voting. > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Thanks for the quick look and a few factors you looked at in the charts. I was hoping keeping in view the original subject that the 12th house in the rashi chart in these cases would give a solid indication of the ultimate task or destiny in these charts without having to use the varas or other indicators, as mentioned somewhere in this or similar thread. It is comforting to see from your recent response that other factors need to be considered. Rightly so. We will have to leave Hubbard's chart out of the discussion because the chart I saw had scorpio rising and not cancer (the 1811 was a typo and should have been 1911). I have heard of some discrepancies in Sri Chaitanya's birth data as well and so again that would not be a good case for such a study. Before declaring 12th or any other bhava as the ultimate bhava, one would have to consider ultimate in which way. The horoscope probably does not reflect the entire picture of the reincarnating atman (soul) but just the relevant portion for the current birth (certainly not the entire thread of births, definitely not just the rashi would encompass it completely). Some individuals indicate that the dasham in rashi and and dashamsha deal with the major tasks in life (this birth) and so might be one of the most important (in an ultimate sense) houses. Someday would look at that. The problem with using just rashi or one bhava in that is that the options are reduced. If it works, it is wonderful because jyotish becomes more black and white rather than a multiple factor thing which then becomes sensitive to variations in interpretations. The problem arises that each factor (whatever it be) then becomes present in so many charts that it becomes less than useful when doing a prospective analysis, as opposed to retrospective analysis. Like someone stated (perhaps you did!) that there would always be a degree of room for interpretation and subjectivity in jyotish (I am paraphrasing) and I have no problem with that, but then one person's ultimate risks being different from another individual's or even in the same individual from one time to another. Makes the knowledge that much less transferable (as techniques are generally understood to be, easily transferable from one to another individual), due to the subjectivity and subjectiveness of interpretation. , "Manas Kumar" <manaskumar@h...> wrote: > Rao Saheb, > > Sorry for the unintentional error in the scientology data. Thanks > for putting the time in this. I will take a look at what you wrote > and add to the discussion any questions I further have. I have a few > more charts of lesser 'sants' which we can pursue to study this > matter of the role of 12th house in rashi and liberation of the soul. > > MKu > > , Niranjan Rao > <occult_oracle> wrote: > > Manas....the date of birth of Ron Hubbard is actually 13 Mar 1911, > not 1811!! Just realised this morning that he was very much a 20th > century man. I just took the date you gave me for generating his > chart. A grave error :-( > > > > His Asc is actually Cancer and his 12th lord mercury is the 8th > along with 2nd lord sun. No wonder he made such advancement in > spiritualism in a society, which still thinks man is a one-life > animal. > > > > My yesterday's post was full of errors as it was late in the night > and I do get "dyslexic" at times (guess it happens with everyone). > > > > My further apologies to the group. However, I guess the key > messages I had to convey are still valid. Please focus on the > judgemental aspects of this post and ignore the errors. > > > > > > Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: > > Apologies...AK occupies the house of kuja (mars) in both cases. > This only indicates a difficult path. > > > > Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: Okay, a very brief > analysis... > > > > Yogoda: > > Leo Asc. Moon the lord of 12th house is in 12th position from the > 12th house. i.e., the lord of moksha bhava occupies the lagna or 1st > house. This indicates freedom from the cycle of re-birth. Also, as > Yogoda himself narrates in his autobiography, that he had taken > birth again as a yogi only to complete his journey to the abode of > God. His AK is Venus (4th house). It can be observed that moksha > karaka ketu is in 12 position from AK. > > > > Chaitanya Mahaprabhu: > > This is a much better example, because this was the Almighty > himself in human incarnation. > > Again Leo Asc. Moon in the lagna. But moksha karaka ketu has > eclipsed the moon, indicating the non-existance of birth cycle. In > this case AK is Saturn (4th house). As in Yogoda's chart, we can > observe that the AK occupies the house of Ketu. > > > > Ron Hubbard (of scientology fame): > > I also had a quick look Ron's rashi chart on your request. His > 12th lord is in 3rd house. The lord of Asc is situated in own house > and there by strengthening it. I did not spend much time on this. > (Sorry! I will leave it to you to explore) > > > > > > Further D-9, D-24, and D-20 give the source and nature of the > journey toward paramatma. D-9 is for the accomplishments of life...D- > 24 denotes education and D-24 shows the spiritual evolution. > > > > Hindus believe that there are three paths or "maarga" ot attain > bliss. > > - Gyana maarga > > - Bhakti maarga > > - Yoga maarga > > > > I will post on the source and nature in detail at a later date. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > Niranjan > > > > > > Manas Kumar <manaskumar@h...> wrote: > > Niranjan saheb, > > > > Yoganandji would be undoubtedly a good candidate where > mokshaprapti > > does not sound far-fetched and so should strongly indicate the > > factors in this case. > > 5 January 1893, 20:38 hrs (LMT), Gorakhpur, U.P., India > > You are also right when you state that interpretations could > differ > > and indeed we see this happen quite often. I therefore try to > avoid > > re-engineering, as they say, interpretations given by others. > Using > > this chart as an example, I hope you would take some time and > point > > out the specific strong factor/factors that indicate liberation in > > Swamiji's chart using the 12th house in rashi chart (or others > that > > you prefer). > > > > Another spiritually interesting chart is of the male nativity: > > 13 March 1811, 2:01 AM CST, Tilden, Nebraska, USA > > > > Hardly in the same league as the famous Paramahansa Yoganandji, > but > > what does this chart indicate, using the 12th house parameters and > > liberation? > > > > Thanks for your time and effort given to this tutorial. > > > > MKu > > > > > > > > , Niranjan Rao > > wrote: > > > In general it is seen from 12th house in rashi chart. Eg: Ketu > > aspecting the 12th etc..so on. > > > > > > You can also look into the amsa or D charts for specifics. > However > > the opinions vary depending different schools of thought. Some > > people prefer to use AK, while some others prefer to use navamsa, > as > > they think "liberation" is one of the "bhagya" of human life. My > > personal preference is to look from AK ..as it agrees with the > > results of 12th bhava. > > > > > > As long as we remember that astrology is an empirical science > and > > that the judgements of different astrogers need not agree, this > > science will not suffer. > > > > > > Paramahamsa Yogananda is known to be the most studied yogi in > the > > modern era. Just like other aspects his life, his birth charts are > > also documented in detail. It comes highly recomended as gives the > > detailed account on this topic. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > Niranjan > > > > > > Manas Kumar wrote: > > > would the matters surrounding 'liberation' be learned from the > > 12th > > > bhava in rashi, or navamsha, vimshamsha or 12th from atmakaraka > or > > > arudha? Not all of these 12th houses can possibly give the true > > > story about liberation. If they can, then astrology kind of > looses > > > its 'specificity' and some critics do maintain that that is > indeed > > > the case, hence so many different interpretations of the same > > chart > > > or yogadi work! > > > > > > , "occult_oracle" > > > wrote: > > > > Manasji, > > > > > > > > I agree. Each horoscope is unique. But I guess the question > was > > > > generic. > > > > > > > > My interpretation of the question was as follows: > > > > > > > > "Utimate truth" is the "ulimate destiny" or "ulitmate bliss". > It > > > is > > > > linked to the liberation of the soul. The 12th house in a > > > horoscope > > > > tells us about this. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > , "Manas Kumar" > > > > wrote: > > > > > There is a poll at this site for the 'ultimate bhava'. Only > > the > > > 12 > > > > > rashi bhavas are indicated there, so the poll would not > allow > > > for > > > > > other considerations such as: > > > > > > > > > > bhavas in amshas > > > > > padas > > > > > bhavas that hold the ultimate dispositor > > > > > bhavas that hold the key planet in a horoscope and it is > > neither > > > > > chandra, lagnesha or atmakaraka, etc -- necessarily or always > > > > > bhavas that hold the karaka for one of the three planes that > a > > > > > horoscope indicates in consonance with human reality. > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that when voting. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 I have heard/read somewhere that Swami Vivekanananda had a liking for 'bidis' and chilams. Of course, lots of sadhus (high and low) used to smoke and perhaps it was permissible by their ashram etc. But, let us focus on their good work. As they say, "even if the flute is a bit imperfect and dirty, the divine breath has the capacity to make heavenly music even with the defective instrument". , "indervohra2001" <indervohra2001> wrote: > Dear sirs, > In my humble opinion, the accomplishments of Chaitanya Mahaparabhu > and of Yoganand should be analysed through 11th,10th and 9th houses. > When Deha ( body)is formed out of universe all aspects of life as > seen in all the 12 bhavas are to be gone through. > Dalai Lama during a recent interview, when asked about regret of his > life told that he has curiosity about females.This is a stunning > reply from a Yougi. > Yoganand in his biography describes many aspects of life. Even > talked of pleasure of food but omitted about discussion on sex. ( > perhaps Victorian/Indian sensabilities). Otherwise we could have got > some revealations from the great Yogi as we have from Osho. > Mystery of 12th bhava or Moksha can not resolved as there are no > check backs or validation. 12th is ultimate mystry! > Inder > > > -- In , Niranjan Rao > <occult_oracle> wrote: > > Manas....the date of birth of Ron Hubbard is actually 13 Mar 1911, > not 1811!! Just realised this morning that he was very much a 20th > century man. I just took the date you gave me for generating his > chart. A grave error :-( > > > > His Asc is actually Cancer and his 12th lord mercury is the 8th > along with 2nd lord sun. No wonder he made such advancement in > spiritualism in a society, which still thinks man is a one-life > animal. > > > > My yesterday's post was full of errors as it was late in the night > and I do get "dyslexic" at times (guess it happens with everyone). > > > > My further apologies to the group. However, I guess the key > messages I had to convey are still valid. Please focus on the > judgemental aspects of this post and ignore the errors. > > > > > > Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: > > Apologies...AK occupies the house of kuja (mars) in both cases. > This only indicates a difficult path. > > > > Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: Okay, a very brief > analysis... > > > > Yogoda: > > Leo Asc. Moon the lord of 12th house is in 12th position from the > 12th house. i.e., the lord of moksha bhava occupies the lagna or 1st > house. This indicates freedom from the cycle of re-birth. Also, as > Yogoda himself narrates in his autobiography, that he had taken > birth again as a yogi only to complete his journey to the abode of > God. His AK is Venus (4th house). It can be observed that moksha > karaka ketu is in 12 position from AK. > > > > Chaitanya Mahaprabhu: > > This is a much better example, because this was the Almighty > himself in human incarnation. > > Again Leo Asc. Moon in the lagna. But moksha karaka ketu has > eclipsed the moon, indicating the non-existance of birth cycle. In > this case AK is Saturn (4th house). As in Yogoda's chart, we can > observe that the AK occupies the house of Ketu. > > > > Ron Hubbard (of scientology fame): > > I also had a quick look Ron's rashi chart on your request. His > 12th lord is in 3rd house. The lord of Asc is situated in own house > and there by strengthening it. I did not spend much time on this. > (Sorry! I will leave it to you to explore) > > > > > > Further D-9, D-24, and D-20 give the source and nature of the > journey toward paramatma. D-9 is for the accomplishments of life...D- > 24 denotes education and D-24 shows the spiritual evolution. > > > > Hindus believe that there are three paths or "maarga" ot attain > bliss. > > - Gyana maarga > > - Bhakti maarga > > - Yoga maarga > > > > I will post on the source and nature in detail at a later date. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > Niranjan > > > > > > Manas Kumar <manaskumar@h...> wrote: > > Niranjan saheb, > > > > Yoganandji would be undoubtedly a good candidate where > mokshaprapti > > does not sound far-fetched and so should strongly indicate the > > factors in this case. > > 5 January 1893, 20:38 hrs (LMT), Gorakhpur, U.P., India > > You are also right when you state that interpretations could > differ > > and indeed we see this happen quite often. I therefore try to > avoid > > re-engineering, as they say, interpretations given by others. > Using > > this chart as an example, I hope you would take some time and > point > > out the specific strong factor/factors that indicate liberation in > > Swamiji's chart using the 12th house in rashi chart (or others > that > > you prefer). > > > > Another spiritually interesting chart is of the male nativity: > > 13 March 1811, 2:01 AM CST, Tilden, Nebraska, USA > > > > Hardly in the same league as the famous Paramahansa Yoganandji, > but > > what does this chart indicate, using the 12th house parameters and > > liberation? > > > > Thanks for your time and effort given to this tutorial. > > > > MKu > > > > > > > > , Niranjan Rao > > wrote: > > > In general it is seen from 12th house in rashi chart. Eg: Ketu > > aspecting the 12th etc..so on. > > > > > > You can also look into the amsa or D charts for specifics. > However > > the opinions vary depending different schools of thought. Some > > people prefer to use AK, while some others prefer to use navamsa, > as > > they think "liberation" is one of the "bhagya" of human life. My > > personal preference is to look from AK ..as it agrees with the > > results of 12th bhava. > > > > > > As long as we remember that astrology is an empirical science > and > > that the judgements of different astrogers need not agree, this > > science will not suffer. > > > > > > Paramahamsa Yogananda is known to be the most studied yogi in > the > > modern era. Just like other aspects his life, his birth charts are > > also documented in detail. It comes highly recomended as gives the > > detailed account on this topic. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > Niranjan > > > > > > Manas Kumar wrote: > > > would the matters surrounding 'liberation' be learned from the > > 12th > > > bhava in rashi, or navamsha, vimshamsha or 12th from atmakaraka > or > > > arudha? Not all of these 12th houses can possibly give the true > > > story about liberation. If they can, then astrology kind of > looses > > > its 'specificity' and some critics do maintain that that is > indeed > > > the case, hence so many different interpretations of the same > > chart > > > or yogadi work! > > > > > > , "occult_oracle" > > > wrote: > > > > Manasji, > > > > > > > > I agree. Each horoscope is unique. But I guess the question > was > > > > generic. > > > > > > > > My interpretation of the question was as follows: > > > > > > > > "Utimate truth" is the "ulimate destiny" or "ulitmate bliss". > It > > > is > > > > linked to the liberation of the soul. The 12th house in a > > > horoscope > > > > tells us about this. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > , "Manas Kumar" > > > > wrote: > > > > > There is a poll at this site for the 'ultimate bhava'. Only > > the > > > 12 > > > > > rashi bhavas are indicated there, so the poll would not > allow > > > for > > > > > other considerations such as: > > > > > > > > > > bhavas in amshas > > > > > padas > > > > > bhavas that hold the ultimate dispositor > > > > > bhavas that hold the key planet in a horoscope and it is > > neither > > > > > chandra, lagnesha or atmakaraka, etc -- necessarily or always > > > > > bhavas that hold the karaka for one of the three planes that > a > > > > > horoscope indicates in consonance with human reality. > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that when voting. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 yes we have to see the elephant as a whole before appreciating its distinctive features. nothing to deny tthis ...otherwise we ramain as blind men. On a simplifying note ... (A) In hindu astrology we have a specific role assigned to each house, planet, star, amsa, pada, deity (demi-Gods, Gods etc) ...so on. (B) However, depending on position, aspect and strengths, combinations an entity can take up a different role from its natural role. For individual cases we have to take this into account. I am still arguing for (A) unless ..the question is something specific like..."what is Mr.XYZ's ultimate bhava?" my answer would then depend on (B). [lots of laughs.] This was good fun. I am sure the person who asked the question has his own perspective. :~) [a bit nosy here] best wishes, Niranjan Manas Kumar <manaskumar (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: I have heard/read somewhere that Swami Vivekanananda had a liking for 'bidis' and chilams. Of course, lots of sadhus (high and low) used to smoke and perhaps it was permissible by their ashram etc.But, let us focus on their good work. As they say, "even if the flute is a bit imperfect and dirty, the divine breath has the capacity to make heavenly music even with the defective instrument".--- In , "indervohra2001" wrote:> Dear sirs,> In my humble opinion, the accomplishments of Chaitanya Mahaparabhu > and of Yoganand should be analysed through 11th,10th and 9th houses.> When Deha ( body)is formed out of universe all aspects of life as > seen in all the 12 bhavas are to be gone through.> Dalai Lama during a recent interview, when asked about regret of his > life told that he has curiosity about females.This is a stunning > reply from a Yougi.> Yoganand in his biography describes many aspects of life. Even > talked of pleasure of food but omitted about discussion on sex. ( > perhaps Victorian/Indian sensabilities). Otherwise we could have got > some revealations from the great Yogi as we have from Osho.> Mystery of 12th bhava or Moksha can not resolved as there are no > check backs or validation. 12th is ultimate mystry!> Inder> > > -- In , Niranjan Rao > wrote:> > Manas....the date of birth of Ron Hubbard is actually 13 Mar 1911, > not 1811!! Just realised this morning that he was very much a 20th > century man. I just took the date you gave me for generating his > chart. A grave error :-(> > > > His Asc is actually Cancer and his 12th lord mercury is the 8th > along with 2nd lord sun. No wonder he made such advancement in > spiritualism in a society, which still thinks man is a one-life > animal.> > > > My yesterday's post was full of errors as it was late in the night > and I do get "dyslexic" at times (guess it happens with everyone).> > > > My further apologies to the group. However, I guess the key > messages I had to convey are still valid. Please focus on the > judgemental aspects of this post and ignore the errors.> > > > > > Niranjan Rao wrote:> > Apologies...AK occupies the house of kuja (mars) in both cases. > This only indicates a difficult path.> > > > Niranjan Rao wrote: Okay, a very brief > analysis...> > > > Yogoda:> > Leo Asc. Moon the lord of 12th house is in 12th position from the > 12th house. i.e., the lord of moksha bhava occupies the lagna or 1st > house. This indicates freedom from the cycle of re-birth. Also, as > Yogoda himself narrates in his autobiography, that he had taken > birth again as a yogi only to complete his journey to the abode of > God. His AK is Venus (4th house). It can be observed that moksha > karaka ketu is in 12 position from AK. > > > > Chaitanya Mahaprabhu:> > This is a much better example, because this was the Almighty > himself in human incarnation.> > Again Leo Asc. Moon in the lagna. But moksha karaka ketu has > eclipsed the moon, indicating the non-existance of birth cycle. In > this case AK is Saturn (4th house). As in Yogoda's chart, we can > observe that the AK occupies the house of Ketu.> > > > Ron Hubbard (of scientology fame):> > I also had a quick look Ron's rashi chart on your request. His > 12th lord is in 3rd house. The lord of Asc is situated in own house > and there by strengthening it. I did not spend much time on this. > (Sorry! I will leave it to you to explore)> > > > > > Further D-9, D-24, and D-20 give the source and nature of the > journey toward paramatma. D-9 is for the accomplishments of life...D-> 24 denotes education and D-24 shows the spiritual evolution.> > > > Hindus believe that there are three paths or "maarga" ot attain > bliss.> > - Gyana maarga > > - Bhakti maarga> > - Yoga maarga> > > > I will post on the source and nature in detail at a later date.> > > > > > Best wishes,> > Niranjan> > > > > > Manas Kumar wrote:> > Niranjan saheb,> > > > Yoganandji would be undoubtedly a good candidate where > mokshaprapti > > does not sound far-fetched and so should strongly indicate the > > factors in this case. > > 5 January 1893, 20:38 hrs (LMT), Gorakhpur, U.P., India> > You are also right when you state that interpretations could > differ > > and indeed we see this happen quite often. I therefore try to > avoid > > re-engineering, as they say, interpretations given by others. > Using > > this chart as an example, I hope you would take some time and > point > > out the specific strong factor/factors that indicate liberation in > > Swamiji's chart using the 12th house in rashi chart (or others > that > > you prefer).> > > > Another spiritually interesting chart is of the male nativity:> > 13 March 1811, 2:01 AM CST, Tilden, Nebraska, USA> > > > Hardly in the same league as the famous Paramahansa Yoganandji, > but > > what does this chart indicate, using the 12th house parameters and > > liberation?> > > > Thanks for your time and effort given to this tutorial.> > > > MKu> > > > > > > > , Niranjan Rao > > wrote:> > > In general it is seen from 12th house in rashi chart. Eg: Ketu > > aspecting the 12th etc..so on.> > > > > > You can also look into the amsa or D charts for specifics. > However > > the opinions vary depending different schools of thought. Some > > people prefer to use AK, while some others prefer to use navamsa, > as > > they think "liberation" is one of the "bhagya" of human life. My > > personal preference is to look from AK ..as it agrees with the > > results of 12th bhava.> > > > > > As long as we remember that astrology is an empirical science > and > > that the judgements of different astrogers need not agree, this > > science will not suffer. > > > > > > Paramahamsa Yogananda is known to be the most studied yogi in > the > > modern era. Just like other aspects his life, his birth charts are > > also documented in detail. It comes highly recomended as gives the > > detailed account on this topic. > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > Niranjan> > > > > > Manas Kumar wrote:> > > would the matters surrounding 'liberation' be learned from the > > 12th > > > bhava in rashi, or navamsha, vimshamsha or 12th from atmakaraka > or > > > arudha? Not all of these 12th houses can possibly give the true > > > story about liberation. If they can, then astrology kind of > looses > > > its 'specificity' and some critics do maintain that that is > indeed > > > the case, hence so many different interpretations of the same > > chart > > > or yogadi work!> > > > > > , "occult_oracle" > > > wrote:> > > > Manasji,> > > > > > > > I agree. Each horoscope is unique. But I guess the question > was > > > > generic.> > > > > > > > My interpretation of the question was as follows:> > > > > > > > "Utimate truth" is the "ulimate destiny" or "ulitmate bliss". > It > > > is > > > > linked to the liberation of the soul. The 12th house in a > > > horoscope > > > > tells us about this.> > > > > > > > Best wishes,> > > > Niranjan> > > > > > > > , "Manas Kumar" > > > > wrote:> > > > > There is a poll at this site for the 'ultimate bhava'. Only > > the > > > 12 > > > > > rashi bhavas are indicated there, so the poll would not > allow > > > for > > > > > other considerations such as:> > > > > > > > > > bhavas in amshas> > > > > padas> > > > > bhavas that hold the ultimate dispositor> > > > > bhavas that hold the key planet in a horoscope and it is > > neither > > > > > chandra, lagnesha or atmakaraka, etc -- necessarily or always> > > > > bhavas that hold the karaka for one of the three planes that > a > > > > > horoscope indicates in consonance with human reality.> > > > > > > > > > ...> > > > > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that when voting.> > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > today! Download Messenger Now> > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > Links> > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:> > /> > > > To from this group, send an email to:> > > > > > Your use of Groups is subject to the Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~-->Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or LexmarkPrinter at MyInks.com. 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Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 I expressed my perspective/opinion early on to which a response was given (dont remember if it was by you) indicating that rashi is enough to tell something as all-encompassing as ultimate bhava. But perhaps it was someone else, because your last response took into account rashi and also mentioned a few other divisionals. Unless you changed your opinion ;-) Anyway, I got my answer! Thanks for your time. , Niranjan Rao <occult_oracle> wrote: > yes we have to see the elephant as a whole before appreciating its distinctive features. nothing to deny tthis ...otherwise we ramain as blind men. > > On a simplifying note ... > (A) In hindu astrology we have a specific role assigned to each house, planet, star, amsa, pada, deity (demi-Gods, Gods etc) ...so on. > > (B) However, depending on position, aspect and strengths, combinations an entity can take up a different role from its natural role. For individual cases we have to take this into account. > > I am still arguing for (A) unless ..the question is something specific like..."what is Mr.XYZ's ultimate bhava?" my answer would then depend on (B). [lots of laughs.] > > This was good fun. I am sure the person who asked the question has his own perspective. :~) [a bit nosy here] > > > best wishes, > Niranjan > > > > Manas Kumar <manaskumar@h...> wrote:I have heard/read somewhere that Swami Vivekanananda had a liking > for 'bidis' and chilams. Of course, lots of sadhus (high and low) > used to smoke and perhaps it was permissible by their ashram etc. > > But, let us focus on their good work. As they say, "even if the > flute is a bit imperfect and dirty, the divine breath has the > capacity to make heavenly music even with the defective instrument". > > > > , "indervohra2001" > wrote: > > Dear sirs, > > In my humble opinion, the accomplishments of Chaitanya Mahaparabhu > > and of Yoganand should be analysed through 11th,10th and 9th > houses. > > When Deha ( body)is formed out of universe all aspects of life as > > seen in all the 12 bhavas are to be gone through. > > Dalai Lama during a recent interview, when asked about regret of > his > > life told that he has curiosity about females.This is a stunning > > reply from a Yougi. > > Yoganand in his biography describes many aspects of life. Even > > talked of pleasure of food but omitted about discussion on sex. ( > > perhaps Victorian/Indian sensabilities). Otherwise we could have > got > > some revealations from the great Yogi as we have from Osho. > > Mystery of 12th bhava or Moksha can not resolved as there are no > > check backs or validation. 12th is ultimate mystry! > > Inder > > > > > > -- In , Niranjan Rao > > wrote: > > > Manas....the date of birth of Ron Hubbard is actually 13 Mar > 1911, > > not 1811!! Just realised this morning that he was very much a 20th > > century man. I just took the date you gave me for generating his > > chart. A grave error :-( > > > > > > His Asc is actually Cancer and his 12th lord mercury is the 8th > > along with 2nd lord sun. No wonder he made such advancement in > > spiritualism in a society, which still thinks man is a one-life > > animal. > > > > > > My yesterday's post was full of errors as it was late in the > night > > and I do get "dyslexic" at times (guess it happens with everyone). > > > > > > My further apologies to the group. However, I guess the key > > messages I had to convey are still valid. Please focus on the > > judgemental aspects of this post and ignore the errors. > > > > > > > > > Niranjan Rao wrote: > > > Apologies...AK occupies the house of kuja (mars) in both cases. > > This only indicates a difficult path. > > > > > > Niranjan Rao wrote: Okay, a very brief > > analysis... > > > > > > Yogoda: > > > Leo Asc. Moon the lord of 12th house is in 12th position from > the > > 12th house. i.e., the lord of moksha bhava occupies the lagna or > 1st > > house. This indicates freedom from the cycle of re-birth. Also, as > > Yogoda himself narrates in his autobiography, that he had taken > > birth again as a yogi only to complete his journey to the abode of > > God. His AK is Venus (4th house). It can be observed that moksha > > karaka ketu is in 12 position from AK. > > > > > > Chaitanya Mahaprabhu: > > > This is a much better example, because this was the Almighty > > himself in human incarnation. > > > Again Leo Asc. Moon in the lagna. But moksha karaka ketu has > > eclipsed the moon, indicating the non-existance of birth cycle. In > > this case AK is Saturn (4th house). As in Yogoda's chart, we can > > observe that the AK occupies the house of Ketu. > > > > > > Ron Hubbard (of scientology fame): > > > I also had a quick look Ron's rashi chart on your request. His > > 12th lord is in 3rd house. The lord of Asc is situated in own > house > > and there by strengthening it. I did not spend much time on this. > > (Sorry! I will leave it to you to explore) > > > > > > > > > Further D-9, D-24, and D-20 give the source and nature of the > > journey toward paramatma. D-9 is for the accomplishments of > life...D- > > 24 denotes education and D-24 shows the spiritual evolution. > > > > > > Hindus believe that there are three paths or "maarga" ot attain > > bliss. > > > - Gyana maarga > > > - Bhakti maarga > > > - Yoga maarga > > > > > > I will post on the source and nature in detail at a later date. > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > > Manas Kumar wrote: > > > Niranjan saheb, > > > > > > Yoganandji would be undoubtedly a good candidate where > > mokshaprapti > > > does not sound far-fetched and so should strongly indicate the > > > factors in this case. > > > 5 January 1893, 20:38 hrs (LMT), Gorakhpur, U.P., India > > > You are also right when you state that interpretations could > > differ > > > and indeed we see this happen quite often. I therefore try to > > avoid > > > re-engineering, as they say, interpretations given by others. > > Using > > > this chart as an example, I hope you would take some time and > > point > > > out the specific strong factor/factors that indicate liberation > in > > > Swamiji's chart using the 12th house in rashi chart (or others > > that > > > you prefer). > > > > > > Another spiritually interesting chart is of the male nativity: > > > 13 March 1811, 2:01 AM CST, Tilden, Nebraska, USA > > > > > > Hardly in the same league as the famous Paramahansa Yoganandji, > > but > > > what does this chart indicate, using the 12th house parameters > and > > > liberation? > > > > > > Thanks for your time and effort given to this tutorial. > > > > > > MKu > > > > > > > > > > > > , Niranjan Rao > > > wrote: > > > > In general it is seen from 12th house in rashi chart. Eg: Ketu > > > aspecting the 12th etc..so on. > > > > > > > > You can also look into the amsa or D charts for specifics. > > However > > > the opinions vary depending different schools of thought. Some > > > people prefer to use AK, while some others prefer to use > navamsa, > > as > > > they think "liberation" is one of the "bhagya" of human life. My > > > personal preference is to look from AK ..as it agrees with the > > > results of 12th bhava. > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that astrology is an empirical science > > and > > > that the judgements of different astrogers need not agree, this > > > science will not suffer. > > > > > > > > Paramahamsa Yogananda is known to be the most studied yogi in > > the > > > modern era. Just like other aspects his life, his birth charts > are > > > also documented in detail. It comes highly recomended as gives > the > > > detailed account on this topic. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > Manas Kumar wrote: > > > > would the matters surrounding 'liberation' be learned from the > > > 12th > > > > bhava in rashi, or navamsha, vimshamsha or 12th from > atmakaraka > > or > > > > arudha? Not all of these 12th houses can possibly give the > true > > > > story about liberation. If they can, then astrology kind of > > looses > > > > its 'specificity' and some critics do maintain that that is > > indeed > > > > the case, hence so many different interpretations of the same > > > chart > > > > or yogadi work! > > > > > > > > , "occult_oracle" > > > > wrote: > > > > > Manasji, > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Each horoscope is unique. But I guess the question > > was > > > > > generic. > > > > > > > > > > My interpretation of the question was as follows: > > > > > > > > > > "Utimate truth" is the "ulimate destiny" or "ulitmate > bliss". > > It > > > > is > > > > > linked to the liberation of the soul. The 12th house in a > > > > horoscope > > > > > tells us about this. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > > > , "Manas Kumar" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > There is a poll at this site for the 'ultimate bhava'. > Only > > > the > > > > 12 > > > > > > rashi bhavas are indicated there, so the poll would not > > allow > > > > for > > > > > > other considerations such as: > > > > > > > > > > > > bhavas in amshas > > > > > > padas > > > > > > bhavas that hold the ultimate dispositor > > > > > > bhavas that hold the key planet in a horoscope and it is > > > neither > > > > > > chandra, lagnesha or atmakaraka, etc -- necessarily or > always > > > > > > bhavas that hold the karaka for one of the three planes > that > > a > > > > > > horoscope indicates in consonance with human reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that when voting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 more laughter. sorry to deviate from astrology, but in communication this is called "langauge of meaning". we may differ in contexts, but not in content. it is more important in mass communication. just a thought , "Manas Kumar" <manaskumar@h...> wrote: > I expressed my perspective/opinion early on to which a response was > given (dont remember if it was by you) indicating that rashi is > enough to tell something as all-encompassing as ultimate bhava. But > perhaps it was someone else, because your last response took into > account rashi and also mentioned a few other divisionals. Unless you > changed your opinion ;-) > > Anyway, I got my answer! Thanks for your time. > > , Niranjan Rao > <occult_oracle> wrote: > > yes we have to see the elephant as a whole before appreciating its > distinctive features. nothing to deny tthis ...otherwise we ramain > as blind men. > > > > On a simplifying note ... > > (A) In hindu astrology we have a specific role assigned to each > house, planet, star, amsa, pada, deity (demi-Gods, Gods etc) ...so > on. > > > > (B) However, depending on position, aspect and strengths, > combinations an entity can take up a different role from its natural > role. For individual cases we have to take this into account. > > > > I am still arguing for (A) unless ..the question is something > specific like..."what is Mr.XYZ's ultimate bhava?" my answer would > then depend on (B). [lots of laughs.] > > > > This was good fun. I am sure the person who asked the question has > his own perspective. :~) [a bit nosy here] > > > > > > best wishes, > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > Manas Kumar <manaskumar@h...> wrote:I have heard/read somewhere > that Swami Vivekanananda had a liking > > for 'bidis' and chilams. Of course, lots of sadhus (high and low) > > used to smoke and perhaps it was permissible by their ashram etc. > > > > But, let us focus on their good work. As they say, "even if the > > flute is a bit imperfect and dirty, the divine breath has the > > capacity to make heavenly music even with the defective > instrument". > > > > > > > > , "indervohra2001" > > wrote: > > > Dear sirs, > > > In my humble opinion, the accomplishments of Chaitanya > Mahaparabhu > > > and of Yoganand should be analysed through 11th,10th and 9th > > houses. > > > When Deha ( body)is formed out of universe all aspects of life > as > > > seen in all the 12 bhavas are to be gone through. > > > Dalai Lama during a recent interview, when asked about regret of > > his > > > life told that he has curiosity about females.This is a stunning > > > reply from a Yougi. > > > Yoganand in his biography describes many aspects of life. Even > > > talked of pleasure of food but omitted about discussion on sex. > ( > > > perhaps Victorian/Indian sensabilities). Otherwise we could have > > got > > > some revealations from the great Yogi as we have from Osho. > > > Mystery of 12th bhava or Moksha can not resolved as there are no > > > check backs or validation. 12th is ultimate mystry! > > > Inder > > > > > > > > > -- In , Niranjan Rao > > > wrote: > > > > Manas....the date of birth of Ron Hubbard is actually 13 Mar > > 1911, > > > not 1811!! Just realised this morning that he was very much a > 20th > > > century man. I just took the date you gave me for generating his > > > chart. A grave error :-( > > > > > > > > His Asc is actually Cancer and his 12th lord mercury is the > 8th > > > along with 2nd lord sun. No wonder he made such advancement in > > > spiritualism in a society, which still thinks man is a one-life > > > animal. > > > > > > > > My yesterday's post was full of errors as it was late in the > > night > > > and I do get "dyslexic" at times (guess it happens with > everyone). > > > > > > > > My further apologies to the group. However, I guess the key > > > messages I had to convey are still valid. Please focus on the > > > judgemental aspects of this post and ignore the errors. > > > > > > > > > > > > Niranjan Rao wrote: > > > > Apologies...AK occupies the house of kuja (mars) in both > cases. > > > This only indicates a difficult path. > > > > > > > > Niranjan Rao wrote: Okay, a very brief > > > analysis... > > > > > > > > Yogoda: > > > > Leo Asc. Moon the lord of 12th house is in 12th position from > > the > > > 12th house. i.e., the lord of moksha bhava occupies the lagna or > > 1st > > > house. This indicates freedom from the cycle of re-birth. Also, > as > > > Yogoda himself narrates in his autobiography, that he had taken > > > birth again as a yogi only to complete his journey to the abode > of > > > God. His AK is Venus (4th house). It can be observed that moksha > > > karaka ketu is in 12 position from AK. > > > > > > > > Chaitanya Mahaprabhu: > > > > This is a much better example, because this was the Almighty > > > himself in human incarnation. > > > > Again Leo Asc. Moon in the lagna. But moksha karaka ketu has > > > eclipsed the moon, indicating the non-existance of birth cycle. > In > > > this case AK is Saturn (4th house). As in Yogoda's chart, we can > > > observe that the AK occupies the house of Ketu. > > > > > > > > Ron Hubbard (of scientology fame): > > > > I also had a quick look Ron's rashi chart on your request. His > > > 12th lord is in 3rd house. The lord of Asc is situated in own > > house > > > and there by strengthening it. I did not spend much time on > this. > > > (Sorry! I will leave it to you to explore) > > > > > > > > > > > > Further D-9, D-24, and D-20 give the source and nature of the > > > journey toward paramatma. D-9 is for the accomplishments of > > life...D- > > > 24 denotes education and D-24 shows the spiritual evolution. > > > > > > > > Hindus believe that there are three paths or "maarga" ot > attain > > > bliss. > > > > - Gyana maarga > > > > - Bhakti maarga > > > > - Yoga maarga > > > > > > > > I will post on the source and nature in detail at a later date. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > Manas Kumar wrote: > > > > Niranjan saheb, > > > > > > > > Yoganandji would be undoubtedly a good candidate where > > > mokshaprapti > > > > does not sound far-fetched and so should strongly indicate the > > > > factors in this case. > > > > 5 January 1893, 20:38 hrs (LMT), Gorakhpur, U.P., India > > > > You are also right when you state that interpretations could > > > differ > > > > and indeed we see this happen quite often. I therefore try to > > > avoid > > > > re-engineering, as they say, interpretations given by others. > > > Using > > > > this chart as an example, I hope you would take some time and > > > point > > > > out the specific strong factor/factors that indicate > liberation > > in > > > > Swamiji's chart using the 12th house in rashi chart (or others > > > that > > > > you prefer). > > > > > > > > Another spiritually interesting chart is of the male nativity: > > > > 13 March 1811, 2:01 AM CST, Tilden, Nebraska, USA > > > > > > > > Hardly in the same league as the famous Paramahansa > Yoganandji, > > > but > > > > what does this chart indicate, using the 12th house parameters > > and > > > > liberation? > > > > > > > > Thanks for your time and effort given to this tutorial. > > > > > > > > MKu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Niranjan Rao > > > > wrote: > > > > > In general it is seen from 12th house in rashi chart. Eg: > Ketu > > > > aspecting the 12th etc..so on. > > > > > > > > > > You can also look into the amsa or D charts for specifics. > > > However > > > > the opinions vary depending different schools of thought. Some > > > > people prefer to use AK, while some others prefer to use > > navamsa, > > > as > > > > they think "liberation" is one of the "bhagya" of human life. > My > > > > personal preference is to look from AK ..as it agrees with the > > > > results of 12th bhava. > > > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that astrology is an empirical > science > > > and > > > > that the judgements of different astrogers need not agree, > this > > > > science will not suffer. > > > > > > > > > > Paramahamsa Yogananda is known to be the most studied yogi > in > > > the > > > > modern era. Just like other aspects his life, his birth charts > > are > > > > also documented in detail. It comes highly recomended as gives > > the > > > > detailed account on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > > > Manas Kumar wrote: > > > > > would the matters surrounding 'liberation' be learned from > the > > > > 12th > > > > > bhava in rashi, or navamsha, vimshamsha or 12th from > > atmakaraka > > > or > > > > > arudha? Not all of these 12th houses can possibly give the > > true > > > > > story about liberation. If they can, then astrology kind of > > > looses > > > > > its 'specificity' and some critics do maintain that that is > > > indeed > > > > > the case, hence so many different interpretations of the > same > > > > chart > > > > > or yogadi work! > > > > > > > > > > , "occult_oracle" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Manasji, > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Each horoscope is unique. But I guess the > question > > > was > > > > > > generic. > > > > > > > > > > > > My interpretation of the question was as follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Utimate truth" is the "ulimate destiny" or "ulitmate > > bliss". > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > linked to the liberation of the soul. The 12th house in a > > > > > horoscope > > > > > > tells us about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Niranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Manas Kumar" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > There is a poll at this site for the 'ultimate bhava'. > > Only > > > > the > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > rashi bhavas are indicated there, so the poll would not > > > allow > > > > > for > > > > > > > other considerations such as: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhavas in amshas > > > > > > > padas > > > > > > > bhavas that hold the ultimate dispositor > > > > > > > bhavas that hold the key planet in a horoscope and it is > > > > neither > > > > > > > chandra, lagnesha or atmakaraka, etc -- necessarily or > > always > > > > > > > bhavas that hold the karaka for one of the three planes > > that > > > a > > > > > > > horoscope indicates in consonance with human reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As long as we remember that when voting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your > friends > > > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > > > today! Download Messenger Now > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends > today! Download Messenger Now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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