To Mark - Is Astrology & Christianity, compatible?

[Guest guest]

Mark,

 

This has caused me many problems intellectually

(Pardon me if Intellect is the wrong thing to use here

)..

 

Lets take a hypothetical case of Person A and Person

B.

 

Person A has a karma of having cheated someone

sometime in the past. It's time for him now say to

experience this karma back. Now in comes Person B to

cheat Person A to give back his karma.

 

Question is:

a) Both the things should match, it's karma time for A

to get cheated and B to cheat.

b) Now would cheating A again add back as Karma to B?

or will the cycle end for both of them after this? if

yes .. how can we look for these things in astrology?

c) Now ... Karma is impelling A to get cheated and B

to cheat. However say B decides (since free will also

has it';s say) not to do the cheating .. then will B

carry this baggage forward? and Will A escape being

cheated as well? or will some C come into picture and

do the needful?

 

Just some brickerings !! Basically Just curious to

know how to judge when the cycles end??

 

 

 

--- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid wrote:

> Dear Raman:

>

> Astrology and Christianity are definitely

> compatible...

>

> Remind them of the story of the Christ child &

> birth...

>

> It was 3 wise, men kings who had been led by their

> astrologers....to follow

> the Star!

> why?

>

> to find the Christ child...

>

> So, Astrology's greatest purpose is to help us

> evolve, to find the Spiritual

> nature of life,

> which is beyond the Stars...

>

> The stars, are the path, through which God,

> created.... us..to live to find

> Him....

>

> I understand the anxiety that is there in

> Christianity, .... but ....anyone

> who understands that anything of value, in the

> relative world, from positive

> thinking seminar, to an economics course, to

> Astrology!...all...can be

> helpful...to help us understand...the true purpose

> of life, is to become

> enlightened!

>

> hope this helps..

>

>

> Mark K.

>

> ps... in the famous book of one of the founders of

> Astrology; Maharishi

> Parashara, he says:

>

> "in the beginning Lord Vishnu, entered into the

> grahas to bestow upon his

> devotees, the consequences of their actions..."

>

> So, in essence the Planets are really just God, in

> disguise...

>

> I think even Hindus, can learn that Jupiter,

> himself, ...is just the Lord,

> in disguise...

>

> To pray to them, is not as necessary, except the

> extent to which the prayer,

> teaches us how our own actions are causing us our

> griefs...

>

> God, doesn't do anything to us.

>

> God, has 2 rules....#1, God gives us complete

> freedom to doing whatever we

> would like...

> #2...however, we're also going to be help

> accountable for the consequences

> of our actions...

>

> So, we get born with malefic Astrological

> situations, which mean, that God,

> or Nature is innocently giving back to us..the

> product of our 'wrong' of

> imperfect actions, and if by praying we learn how

> better to perform those

> actions,...to turn that malefic into a benefic!...

>

> then the prayer is okay...

>

> hope this answers and helps...

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

> Namaste....

>

>

>

>

> "Calla, Raman" <rcalla

>

> Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:39:23 -0700

> <>

> RE: 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord

> -Benefic or Malefic?

>

>

> Mark:

>

> I have few questions for you:

>

> Jyotish and Christianity, are they compatible ?

>

> For Upaya offering prayer to Jupiter or other planet

> is against the

> Christianity.

>

> I have been asked this question by friend.

>

> Can you talk about it.

>

> regards!

>

> Raman

>

>

>

> Mark Kincaid [m.kincaid]

> Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:48 AM

>

> 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord -Benefic

> or Malefic?

>

> Dear Deepak & All:

>

> There's actually 2 ways of thinking about the

> relative benefic or malefic

> status of our Planets...

>

> Yes, I think the Lagna Lord is always, 'essentially

> benefic'...

>

> but if the first house lord, is in the 12th house,

> 6th or 8th....

> then, it may be potentially, benefic, but certainly

> may be found functioning

> as a malefic.

>

> Take the example, too, of Planets that are ruleing

> the traditionally,

> considered, malefic 6th, 8th or 12th houses...

>

> They're generally thought of as malefic, but they

> can certainly be found

> acting benefically, especially if they're in their

> own, sign, or Exalted!

>

> I love what the sage, Mahrishi Parashara was

> supposed to say about the

> planets..

>

> In the beginning of his book, on Hora Sastra, he

> says: "In the Beginning

> Lord Vishnu entered into the grahas to bestow upon

> his devotees, the

> consequences of their karmas."

>

> I love this expression because it helps me

> understand that basically,

> essentially, all the Planets are benefic or good!

>

> Only sometimes, the lord, radiates back to us, less

> then desirable results,

> to teach us, so we aspire to develop and improve

> that side of us....

>

> Let's say, someone has Sani, in the 12th House. And

> it's definitely acting

> malefic there!

>

> Ah...take my chart, yikes!,....but having a Libra

> rising my Sani, though

> it's in the 12th house, is still supposed to be

> benefic!, being yogakaraka,

> and all...

>

> but, my experience, is it's been completely malefic

> for me!

>

> There with my Moon, too, I've experienced a lot of

> Saturn 12th house,

> 'losses', due to Sani, including...loss of emotional

> happiness, sadness,

> loneliness, lack of money and lots of losses due to

> too many expenditures..

>

> But, immediately when I started strengthening my

> Sani, and practicing other

> jyotish remedies which can be said, to directly

> improve Saturn....I've

> noticed a complete turn about in my experience of

> what was previously a very

> malefic Saturn...

>

> Both, medititation and studying Jyotish, and

> especially, the daily Transits,

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

This would assume that karma would have to come back through a similar

action to the one that triggered it in the first place. But if you decide to

put things right yourself, that would negate the need for karmic rebound.

All that is required is that the balance should be righted again...just like

the laws of physics. A and B certainly would have no need to be locked into

perpetual cycle of payback...or A might experience a succession of B's till

s/he decided to stop cheating.

 

On 8/4/04 9:13 pm, "surya vishnubhotla" <surya_prakashv wrote:

 

> Person A has a karma of having cheated someone

> sometime in the past. It's time for him now say to

> experience this karma back. Now in comes Person B to

> cheat Person A to give back his karma.

>

> Question is:

> a) Both the things should match, it's karma time for A

> to get cheated and B to cheat.

> b) Now would cheating A again add back as Karma to B?

> or will the cycle end for both of them after this? if

> yes .. how can we look for these things in astrology?

> c) Now ... Karma is impelling A to get cheated and B

> to cheat. However say B decides (since free will also

> has it';s say) not to do the cheating .. then will B

> carry this baggage forward? and Will A escape being

> cheated as well? or will some C come into picture and

> do the needful?

[Guest guest]

Dear Surya,

 

If I may add my two cents worth here:

 

> Person A has a karma of having cheated someone

> sometime in the past. It's time for him now say to

> experience this karma back. Now in comes Person B to

> cheat Person A to give back his karma.

>

> Question is:

> a) Both the things should match, it's karma time for A

> to get cheated and B to cheat.

 

Yes. And all of the above, i.e. the actual event, as well as the

giver of the event (B in this case), as well as the timing can be

predicted through the various astrological means.

 

 

> b) Now would cheating A again add back as Karma to B?

> or will the cycle end for both of them after this? if

> yes .. how can we look for these things in astrology?

 

B has cheated A, so B reaps the appropriate bad karma for this.

 

 

> c) Now ... Karma is impelling A to get cheated and B

> to cheat. However say B decides (since free will also

> has it';s say) not to do the cheating .. then will B

> carry this baggage forward? and Will A escape being

> cheated as well? or will some C come into picture and

> do the needful?

 

A may still be cheated in the absence of other factors. By that, I

mean that one or more of A's subsequent actions could have changed

the equation. Say A repented for whatever cheating he/she did and

tried to set things right, this might have evened the playing field.

Or say A helped someone in some way, or maybe A has suffered for

this in another way too ... from all I've read, Karma is more than a

simple tit for tat, i.e. A might have paid for cheating in ways

other than being cheated.

 

And, no B will not carry the baggage, of course. B did the right

thing by not cheating A, this is not a sin.

 

>

> Just some brickerings !! Basically Just curious to

> know how to judge when the cycles end??

 

The cycles end when all people stop performing any Karma, good or

bad. :-) Which, is pretty close to impossible, since the simple act

of living itself creates Karma every second. The first step, of

course, is to stop accumulating more and more evil Karma, and to

increase the good Karma. Getting this far is pretty darn good, but

you can take it to the second step if you really want to end the

cycle. The second step is to rise above all Karma either by total

renunciation, which less than 0.00000000001% of us can do, or by the

conscious detachment from wordly desires, as explained in the

Bhagavat Gita, in which you dedicate everything you do to the Lord,

and do your best without attachment to the results of your

actions.

 

Just my 2 cents worth!

Venkatarama

 

>

>

>

> --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > Dear Raman:

> >

> > Astrology and Christianity are definitely

> > compatible...

> >

> > Remind them of the story of the Christ child &

> > birth...

> >

> > It was 3 wise, men kings who had been led by their

> > astrologers....to follow

> > the Star!

> > why?

> >

> > to find the Christ child...

> >

> > So, Astrology's greatest purpose is to help us

> > evolve, to find the Spiritual

> > nature of life,

> > which is beyond the Stars...

> >

> > The stars, are the path, through which God,

> > created.... us..to live to find

> > Him....

> >

> > I understand the anxiety that is there in

> > Christianity, .... but ....anyone

> > who understands that anything of value, in the

> > relative world, from positive

> > thinking seminar, to an economics course, to

> > Astrology!...all...can be

> > helpful...to help us understand...the true purpose

> > of life, is to become

> > enlightened!

> >

> > hope this helps..

> >

> >

> > Mark K.

> >

> > ps... in the famous book of one of the founders of

> > Astrology; Maharishi

> > Parashara, he says:

> >

> > "in the beginning Lord Vishnu, entered into the

> > grahas to bestow upon his

> > devotees, the consequences of their actions..."

> >

> > So, in essence the Planets are really just God, in

> > disguise...

> >

> > I think even Hindus, can learn that Jupiter,

> > himself, ...is just the Lord,

> > in disguise...

> >

> > To pray to them, is not as necessary, except the

> > extent to which the prayer,

> > teaches us how our own actions are causing us our

> > griefs...

> >

> > God, doesn't do anything to us.

> >

> > God, has 2 rules....#1, God gives us complete

> > freedom to doing whatever we

> > would like...

> > #2...however, we're also going to be help

> > accountable for the consequences

> > of our actions...

> >

> > So, we get born with malefic Astrological

> > situations, which mean, that God,

> > or Nature is innocently giving back to us..the

> > product of our 'wrong' of

> > imperfect actions, and if by praying we learn how

> > better to perform those

> > actions,...to turn that malefic into a benefic!...

> >

> > then the prayer is okay...

> >

> > hope this answers and helps...

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> >

> > Mark Kincaid

> >

> >

> >

> > Namaste....

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > "Calla, Raman" <rcalla@s...>

> >

> > Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:39:23 -0700

> > <>

> > RE: 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> > K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord

> > -Benefic or Malefic?

> >

> >

> > Mark:

> >

> > I have few questions for you:

> >

> > Jyotish and Christianity, are they compatible ?

> >

> > For Upaya offering prayer to Jupiter or other planet

> > is against the

> > Christianity.

> >

> > I have been asked this question by friend.

> >

> > Can you talk about it.

> >

> > regards!

> >

> > Raman

> >

> >

> >

> > Mark Kincaid [m.kincaid@m...]

> > Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:48 AM

> >

> > 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> > K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord -Benefic

> > or Malefic?

> >

> > Dear Deepak & All:

> >

> > There's actually 2 ways of thinking about the

> > relative benefic or malefic

> > status of our Planets...

> >

> > Yes, I think the Lagna Lord is always, 'essentially

> > benefic'...

> >

> > but if the first house lord, is in the 12th house,

> > 6th or 8th....

> > then, it may be potentially, benefic, but certainly

> > may be found functioning

> > as a malefic.

> >

> > Take the example, too, of Planets that are ruleing

> > the traditionally,

> > considered, malefic 6th, 8th or 12th houses...

> >

> > They're generally thought of as malefic, but they

> > can certainly be found

> > acting benefically, especially if they're in their

> > own, sign, or Exalted!

> >

> > I love what the sage, Mahrishi Parashara was

> > supposed to say about the

> > planets..

> >

> > In the beginning of his book, on Hora Sastra, he

> > says: "In the Beginning

> > Lord Vishnu entered into the grahas to bestow upon

> > his devotees, the

> > consequences of their karmas."

> >

> > I love this expression because it helps me

> > understand that basically,

> > essentially, all the Planets are benefic or good!

> >

> > Only sometimes, the lord, radiates back to us, less

> > then desirable results,

> > to teach us, so we aspire to develop and improve

> > that side of us....

> >

> > Let's say, someone has Sani, in the 12th House. And

> > it's definitely acting

> > malefic there!

> >

> > Ah...take my chart, yikes!,....but having a Libra

> > rising my Sani, though

> > it's in the 12th house, is still supposed to be

> > benefic!, being yogakaraka,

> > and all...

> >

> > but, my experience, is it's been completely malefic

> > for me!

> >

> > There with my Moon, too, I've experienced a lot of

> > Saturn 12th house,

> > 'losses', due to Sani, including...loss of emotional

> > happiness, sadness,

> > loneliness, lack of money and lots of losses due to

> > too many expenditures..

> >

> > But, immediately when I started strengthening my

> > Sani, and practicing other

> > jyotish remedies which can be said, to directly

> > improve Saturn....I've

> > noticed a complete turn about in my experience of

> > what was previously a very

> > malefic Saturn...

> >

> > Both, medititation and studying Jyotish, and

> > especially, the daily Transits,

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

> Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway

> http://promotions./design_giveaway/

[Guest guest]

Dear Venkatarama Ji,

 

Beautiful discussion.

 

All this is right ...may be, yes we do believe in reincarnation ,

punarjanma, karmaphal etc. But I think there is just one janma we

remember and that is the the one we are living and we have to make

it beautiful...living in this world. Its hard to give up the world

so why not be just good to everybody, dont HURT anybody, dont CHEAT,

as far as possible in THIS birth ?

 

just a thought

 

Manoshi

 

 

, "venkatarama_sastry"

<venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> Dear Surya,

>

> If I may add my two cents worth here:

>

> > Person A has a karma of having cheated someone

> > sometime in the past. It's time for him now say to

> > experience this karma back. Now in comes Person B to

> > cheat Person A to give back his karma.

> >

> > Question is:

> > a) Both the things should match, it's karma time for A

> > to get cheated and B to cheat.

>

> Yes. And all of the above, i.e. the actual event, as well as the

> giver of the event (B in this case), as well as the timing can be

> predicted through the various astrological means.

>

>

> > b) Now would cheating A again add back as Karma to B?

> > or will the cycle end for both of them after this? if

> > yes .. how can we look for these things in astrology?

>

> B has cheated A, so B reaps the appropriate bad karma for this.

>

>

> > c) Now ... Karma is impelling A to get cheated and B

> > to cheat. However say B decides (since free will also

> > has it';s say) not to do the cheating .. then will B

> > carry this baggage forward? and Will A escape being

> > cheated as well? or will some C come into picture and

> > do the needful?

>

> A may still be cheated in the absence of other factors. By that, I

> mean that one or more of A's subsequent actions could have changed

> the equation. Say A repented for whatever cheating he/she did and

> tried to set things right, this might have evened the playing

field.

> Or say A helped someone in some way, or maybe A has suffered for

> this in another way too ... from all I've read, Karma is more than

a

> simple tit for tat, i.e. A might have paid for cheating in ways

> other than being cheated.

>

> And, no B will not carry the baggage, of course. B did the right

> thing by not cheating A, this is not a sin.

>

> >

> > Just some brickerings !! Basically Just curious to

> > know how to judge when the cycles end??

>

> The cycles end when all people stop performing any Karma, good or

> bad. :-) Which, is pretty close to impossible, since the simple

act

> of living itself creates Karma every second. The first step, of

> course, is to stop accumulating more and more evil Karma, and to

> increase the good Karma. Getting this far is pretty darn good, but

> you can take it to the second step if you really want to end the

> cycle. The second step is to rise above all Karma either by total

> renunciation, which less than 0.00000000001% of us can do, or by

the

> conscious detachment from wordly desires, as explained in the

> Bhagavat Gita, in which you dedicate everything you do to the

Lord,

> and do your best without attachment to the results of your

> actions.

>

> Just my 2 cents worth!

> Venkatarama

>

> >

> >

> >

> > --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > Dear Raman:

> > >

> > > Astrology and Christianity are definitely

> > > compatible...

> > >

> > > Remind them of the story of the Christ child &

> > > birth...

> > >

> > > It was 3 wise, men kings who had been led by their

> > > astrologers....to follow

> > > the Star!

> > > why?

> > >

> > > to find the Christ child...

> > >

> > > So, Astrology's greatest purpose is to help us

> > > evolve, to find the Spiritual

> > > nature of life,

> > > which is beyond the Stars...

> > >

> > > The stars, are the path, through which God,

> > > created.... us..to live to find

> > > Him....

> > >

> > > I understand the anxiety that is there in

> > > Christianity, .... but ....anyone

> > > who understands that anything of value, in the

> > > relative world, from positive

> > > thinking seminar, to an economics course, to

> > > Astrology!...all...can be

> > > helpful...to help us understand...the true purpose

> > > of life, is to become

> > > enlightened!

> > >

> > > hope this helps..

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark K.

> > >

> > > ps... in the famous book of one of the founders of

> > > Astrology; Maharishi

> > > Parashara, he says:

> > >

> > > "in the beginning Lord Vishnu, entered into the

> > > grahas to bestow upon his

> > > devotees, the consequences of their actions..."

> > >

> > > So, in essence the Planets are really just God, in

> > > disguise...

> > >

> > > I think even Hindus, can learn that Jupiter,

> > > himself, ...is just the Lord,

> > > in disguise...

> > >

> > > To pray to them, is not as necessary, except the

> > > extent to which the prayer,

> > > teaches us how our own actions are causing us our

> > > griefs...

> > >

> > > God, doesn't do anything to us.

> > >

> > > God, has 2 rules....#1, God gives us complete

> > > freedom to doing whatever we

> > > would like...

> > > #2...however, we're also going to be help

> > > accountable for the consequences

> > > of our actions...

> > >

> > > So, we get born with malefic Astrological

> > > situations, which mean, that God,

> > > or Nature is innocently giving back to us..the

> > > product of our 'wrong' of

> > > imperfect actions, and if by praying we learn how

> > > better to perform those

> > > actions,...to turn that malefic into a benefic!...

> > >

> > > then the prayer is okay...

> > >

> > > hope this answers and helps...

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namaste....

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > "Calla, Raman" <rcalla@s...>

> > >

> > > Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:39:23 -0700

> > > <>

> > > RE: 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> > > K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord

> > > -Benefic or Malefic?

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark:

> > >

> > > I have few questions for you:

> > >

> > > Jyotish and Christianity, are they compatible ?

> > >

> > > For Upaya offering prayer to Jupiter or other planet

> > > is against the

> > > Christianity.

> > >

> > > I have been asked this question by friend.

> > >

> > > Can you talk about it.

> > >

> > > regards!

> > >

> > > Raman

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid [m.kincaid@m...]

> > > Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:48 AM

> > >

> > > 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> > > K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord -Benefic

> > > or Malefic?

> > >

> > > Dear Deepak & All:

> > >

> > > There's actually 2 ways of thinking about the

> > > relative benefic or malefic

> > > status of our Planets...

> > >

> > > Yes, I think the Lagna Lord is always, 'essentially

> > > benefic'...

> > >

> > > but if the first house lord, is in the 12th house,

> > > 6th or 8th....

> > > then, it may be potentially, benefic, but certainly

> > > may be found functioning

> > > as a malefic.

> > >

> > > Take the example, too, of Planets that are ruleing

> > > the traditionally,

> > > considered, malefic 6th, 8th or 12th houses...

> > >

> > > They're generally thought of as malefic, but they

> > > can certainly be found

> > > acting benefically, especially if they're in their

> > > own, sign, or Exalted!

> > >

> > > I love what the sage, Mahrishi Parashara was

> > > supposed to say about the

> > > planets..

> > >

> > > In the beginning of his book, on Hora Sastra, he

> > > says: "In the Beginning

> > > Lord Vishnu entered into the grahas to bestow upon

> > > his devotees, the

> > > consequences of their karmas."

> > >

> > > I love this expression because it helps me

> > > understand that basically,

> > > essentially, all the Planets are benefic or good!

> > >

> > > Only sometimes, the lord, radiates back to us, less

> > > then desirable results,

> > > to teach us, so we aspire to develop and improve

> > > that side of us....

> > >

> > > Let's say, someone has Sani, in the 12th House. And

> > > it's definitely acting

> > > malefic there!

> > >

> > > Ah...take my chart, yikes!,....but having a Libra

> > > rising my Sani, though

> > > it's in the 12th house, is still supposed to be

> > > benefic!, being yogakaraka,

> > > and all...

> > >

> > > but, my experience, is it's been completely malefic

> > > for me!

> > >

> > > There with my Moon, too, I've experienced a lot of

> > > Saturn 12th house,

> > > 'losses', due to Sani, including...loss of emotional

> > > happiness, sadness,

> > > loneliness, lack of money and lots of losses due to

> > > too many expenditures..

> > >

> > > But, immediately when I started strengthening my

> > > Sani, and practicing other

> > > jyotish remedies which can be said, to directly

> > > improve Saturn....I've

> > > noticed a complete turn about in my experience of

> > > what was previously a very

> > > malefic Saturn...

> > >

> > > Both, medititation and studying Jyotish, and

> > > especially, the daily Transits,

> > >

> > === message truncated ===

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway

> > http://promotions./design_giveaway/

[Guest guest]

Dear Manoshi,

 

Very very true. I agree with you completely, whether there is

rebirth or not, we definitely do know we have this life, so might as

well do the best we can, here and now.

 

And please don't add the Ji to my name, sounds strange :-).

 

Venkatarama

 

, "khallopapa"

<khallopapa> wrote:

> Dear Venkatarama Ji,

>

> Beautiful discussion.

>

> All this is right ...may be, yes we do believe in reincarnation ,

> punarjanma, karmaphal etc. But I think there is just one janma we

> remember and that is the the one we are living and we have to make

> it beautiful...living in this world. Its hard to give up the world

> so why not be just good to everybody, dont HURT anybody, dont

CHEAT,

> as far as possible in THIS birth ?

>

> just a thought

>

> Manoshi

>

>

> , "venkatarama_sastry"

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > Dear Surya,

> >

> > If I may add my two cents worth here:

> >

> > > Person A has a karma of having cheated someone

> > > sometime in the past. It's time for him now say to

> > > experience this karma back. Now in comes Person B to

> > > cheat Person A to give back his karma.

> > >

> > > Question is:

> > > a) Both the things should match, it's karma time for A

> > > to get cheated and B to cheat.

> >

> > Yes. And all of the above, i.e. the actual event, as well as the

> > giver of the event (B in this case), as well as the timing can

be

> > predicted through the various astrological means.

> >

> >

> > > b) Now would cheating A again add back as Karma to B?

> > > or will the cycle end for both of them after this? if

> > > yes .. how can we look for these things in astrology?

> >

> > B has cheated A, so B reaps the appropriate bad karma for this.

> >

> >

> > > c) Now ... Karma is impelling A to get cheated and B

> > > to cheat. However say B decides (since free will also

> > > has it';s say) not to do the cheating .. then will B

> > > carry this baggage forward? and Will A escape being

> > > cheated as well? or will some C come into picture and

> > > do the needful?

> >

> > A may still be cheated in the absence of other factors. By that,

I

> > mean that one or more of A's subsequent actions could have

changed

> > the equation. Say A repented for whatever cheating he/she did

and

> > tried to set things right, this might have evened the playing

> field.

> > Or say A helped someone in some way, or maybe A has suffered for

> > this in another way too ... from all I've read, Karma is more

than

> a

> > simple tit for tat, i.e. A might have paid for cheating in ways

> > other than being cheated.

> >

> > And, no B will not carry the baggage, of course. B did the right

> > thing by not cheating A, this is not a sin.

> >

> > >

> > > Just some brickerings !! Basically Just curious to

> > > know how to judge when the cycles end??

> >

> > The cycles end when all people stop performing any Karma, good

or

> > bad. :-) Which, is pretty close to impossible, since the simple

> act

> > of living itself creates Karma every second. The first step, of

> > course, is to stop accumulating more and more evil Karma, and to

> > increase the good Karma. Getting this far is pretty darn good,

but

> > you can take it to the second step if you really want to end the

> > cycle. The second step is to rise above all Karma either by

total

> > renunciation, which less than 0.00000000001% of us can do, or by

> the

> > conscious detachment from wordly desires, as explained in the

> > Bhagavat Gita, in which you dedicate everything you do to the

> Lord,

> > and do your best without attachment to the results of your

> > actions.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents worth!

> > Venkatarama

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > > Dear Raman:

> > > >

> > > > Astrology and Christianity are definitely

> > > > compatible...

> > > >

> > > > Remind them of the story of the Christ child &

> > > > birth...

> > > >

> > > > It was 3 wise, men kings who had been led by their

> > > > astrologers....to follow

> > > > the Star!

> > > > why?

> > > >

> > > > to find the Christ child...

> > > >

> > > > So, Astrology's greatest purpose is to help us

> > > > evolve, to find the Spiritual

> > > > nature of life,

> > > > which is beyond the Stars...

> > > >

> > > > The stars, are the path, through which God,

> > > > created.... us..to live to find

> > > > Him....

> > > >

> > > > I understand the anxiety that is there in

> > > > Christianity, .... but ....anyone

> > > > who understands that anything of value, in the

> > > > relative world, from positive

> > > > thinking seminar, to an economics course, to

> > > > Astrology!...all...can be

> > > > helpful...to help us understand...the true purpose

> > > > of life, is to become

> > > > enlightened!

> > > >

> > > > hope this helps..

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mark K.

> > > >

> > > > ps... in the famous book of one of the founders of

> > > > Astrology; Maharishi

> > > > Parashara, he says:

> > > >

> > > > "in the beginning Lord Vishnu, entered into the

> > > > grahas to bestow upon his

> > > > devotees, the consequences of their actions..."

> > > >

> > > > So, in essence the Planets are really just God, in

> > > > disguise...

> > > >

> > > > I think even Hindus, can learn that Jupiter,

> > > > himself, ...is just the Lord,

> > > > in disguise...

> > > >

> > > > To pray to them, is not as necessary, except the

> > > > extent to which the prayer,

> > > > teaches us how our own actions are causing us our

> > > > griefs...

> > > >

> > > > God, doesn't do anything to us.

> > > >

> > > > God, has 2 rules....#1, God gives us complete

> > > > freedom to doing whatever we

> > > > would like...

> > > > #2...however, we're also going to be help

> > > > accountable for the consequences

> > > > of our actions...

> > > >

> > > > So, we get born with malefic Astrological

> > > > situations, which mean, that God,

> > > > or Nature is innocently giving back to us..the

> > > > product of our 'wrong' of

> > > > imperfect actions, and if by praying we learn how

> > > > better to perform those

> > > > actions,...to turn that malefic into a benefic!...

> > > >

> > > > then the prayer is okay...

> > > >

> > > > hope this answers and helps...

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mark Kincaid

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Namaste....

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > "Calla, Raman" <rcalla@s...>

> > > >

> > > > Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:39:23 -0700

> > > > <>

> > > > RE: 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> > > > K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord

> > > > -Benefic or Malefic?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mark:

> > > >

> > > > I have few questions for you:

> > > >

> > > > Jyotish and Christianity, are they compatible ?

> > > >

> > > > For Upaya offering prayer to Jupiter or other planet

> > > > is against the

> > > > Christianity.

> > > >

> > > > I have been asked this question by friend.

> > > >

> > > > Can you talk about it.

> > > >

> > > > regards!

> > > >

> > > > Raman

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mark Kincaid [m.kincaid@m...]

> > > > Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:48 AM

> > > >

> > > > 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> > > > K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord -Benefic

> > > > or Malefic?

> > > >

> > > > Dear Deepak & All:

> > > >

> > > > There's actually 2 ways of thinking about the

> > > > relative benefic or malefic

> > > > status of our Planets...

> > > >

> > > > Yes, I think the Lagna Lord is always, 'essentially

> > > > benefic'...

> > > >

> > > > but if the first house lord, is in the 12th house,

> > > > 6th or 8th....

> > > > then, it may be potentially, benefic, but certainly

> > > > may be found functioning

> > > > as a malefic.

> > > >

> > > > Take the example, too, of Planets that are ruleing

> > > > the traditionally,

> > > > considered, malefic 6th, 8th or 12th houses...

> > > >

> > > > They're generally thought of as malefic, but they

> > > > can certainly be found

> > > > acting benefically, especially if they're in their

> > > > own, sign, or Exalted!

> > > >

> > > > I love what the sage, Mahrishi Parashara was

> > > > supposed to say about the

> > > > planets..

> > > >

> > > > In the beginning of his book, on Hora Sastra, he

> > > > says: "In the Beginning

> > > > Lord Vishnu entered into the grahas to bestow upon

> > > > his devotees, the

> > > > consequences of their karmas."

> > > >

> > > > I love this expression because it helps me

> > > > understand that basically,

> > > > essentially, all the Planets are benefic or good!

> > > >

> > > > Only sometimes, the lord, radiates back to us, less

> > > > then desirable results,

> > > > to teach us, so we aspire to develop and improve

> > > > that side of us....

> > > >

> > > > Let's say, someone has Sani, in the 12th House. And

> > > > it's definitely acting

> > > > malefic there!

> > > >

> > > > Ah...take my chart, yikes!,....but having a Libra

> > > > rising my Sani, though

> > > > it's in the 12th house, is still supposed to be

> > > > benefic!, being yogakaraka,

> > > > and all...

> > > >

> > > > but, my experience, is it's been completely malefic

> > > > for me!

> > > >

> > > > There with my Moon, too, I've experienced a lot of

> > > > Saturn 12th house,

> > > > 'losses', due to Sani, including...loss of emotional

> > > > happiness, sadness,

> > > > loneliness, lack of money and lots of losses due to

> > > > too many expenditures..

> > > >

> > > > But, immediately when I started strengthening my

> > > > Sani, and practicing other

> > > > jyotish remedies which can be said, to directly

> > > > improve Saturn....I've

> > > > noticed a complete turn about in my experience of

> > > > what was previously a very

> > > > malefic Saturn...

> > > >

> > > > Both, medititation and studying Jyotish, and

> > > > especially, the daily Transits,

> > > >

> > > === message truncated ===

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway

> > > http://promotions./design_giveaway/

[Guest guest]

Ok then . No Ji. Only Dear Venkatarama :-)

 

Manoshi

 

 

, "venkatarama_sastry"

<venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> Dear Manoshi,

>

> Very very true. I agree with you completely, whether there is

> rebirth or not, we definitely do know we have this life, so might

as

> well do the best we can, here and now.

>

> And please don't add the Ji to my name, sounds strange :-).

>

> Venkatarama

>

> , "khallopapa"

> <khallopapa> wrote:

> > Dear Venkatarama Ji,

> >

> > Beautiful discussion.

> >

> > All this is right ...may be, yes we do believe in

reincarnation ,

> > punarjanma, karmaphal etc. But I think there is just one janma

we

> > remember and that is the the one we are living and we have to

make

> > it beautiful...living in this world. Its hard to give up the

world

> > so why not be just good to everybody, dont HURT anybody, dont

> CHEAT,

> > as far as possible in THIS birth ?

> >

> > just a thought

> >

> > Manoshi

> >

> >

> > , "venkatarama_sastry"

> > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > Dear Surya,

> > >

> > > If I may add my two cents worth here:

> > >

> > > > Person A has a karma of having cheated someone

> > > > sometime in the past. It's time for him now say to

> > > > experience this karma back. Now in comes Person B to

> > > > cheat Person A to give back his karma.

> > > >

> > > > Question is:

> > > > a) Both the things should match, it's karma time for A

> > > > to get cheated and B to cheat.

> > >

> > > Yes. And all of the above, i.e. the actual event, as well as

the

> > > giver of the event (B in this case), as well as the timing can

> be

> > > predicted through the various astrological means.

> > >

> > >

> > > > b) Now would cheating A again add back as Karma to B?

> > > > or will the cycle end for both of them after this? if

> > > > yes .. how can we look for these things in astrology?

> > >

> > > B has cheated A, so B reaps the appropriate bad karma for

this.

> > >

> > >

> > > > c) Now ... Karma is impelling A to get cheated and B

> > > > to cheat. However say B decides (since free will also

> > > > has it';s say) not to do the cheating .. then will B

> > > > carry this baggage forward? and Will A escape being

> > > > cheated as well? or will some C come into picture and

> > > > do the needful?

> > >

> > > A may still be cheated in the absence of other factors. By

that,

> I

> > > mean that one or more of A's subsequent actions could have

> changed

> > > the equation. Say A repented for whatever cheating he/she did

> and

> > > tried to set things right, this might have evened the playing

> > field.

> > > Or say A helped someone in some way, or maybe A has suffered

for

> > > this in another way too ... from all I've read, Karma is more

> than

> > a

> > > simple tit for tat, i.e. A might have paid for cheating in

ways

> > > other than being cheated.

> > >

> > > And, no B will not carry the baggage, of course. B did the

right

> > > thing by not cheating A, this is not a sin.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Just some brickerings !! Basically Just curious to

> > > > know how to judge when the cycles end??

> > >

> > > The cycles end when all people stop performing any Karma, good

> or

> > > bad. :-) Which, is pretty close to impossible, since the

simple

> > act

> > > of living itself creates Karma every second. The first step,

of

> > > course, is to stop accumulating more and more evil Karma, and

to

> > > increase the good Karma. Getting this far is pretty darn good,

> but

> > > you can take it to the second step if you really want to end

the

> > > cycle. The second step is to rise above all Karma either by

> total

> > > renunciation, which less than 0.00000000001% of us can do, or

by

> > the

> > > conscious detachment from wordly desires, as explained in the

> > > Bhagavat Gita, in which you dedicate everything you do to the

> > Lord,

> > > and do your best without attachment to the results of your

> > > actions.

> > >

> > > Just my 2 cents worth!

> > > Venkatarama

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Raman:

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrology and Christianity are definitely

> > > > > compatible...

> > > > >

> > > > > Remind them of the story of the Christ child &

> > > > > birth...

> > > > >

> > > > > It was 3 wise, men kings who had been led by their

> > > > > astrologers....to follow

> > > > > the Star!

> > > > > why?

> > > > >

> > > > > to find the Christ child...

> > > > >

> > > > > So, Astrology's greatest purpose is to help us

> > > > > evolve, to find the Spiritual

> > > > > nature of life,

> > > > > which is beyond the Stars...

> > > > >

> > > > > The stars, are the path, through which God,

> > > > > created.... us..to live to find

> > > > > Him....

> > > > >

> > > > > I understand the anxiety that is there in

> > > > > Christianity, .... but ....anyone

> > > > > who understands that anything of value, in the

> > > > > relative world, from positive

> > > > > thinking seminar, to an economics course, to

> > > > > Astrology!...all...can be

> > > > > helpful...to help us understand...the true purpose

> > > > > of life, is to become

> > > > > enlightened!

> > > > >

> > > > > hope this helps..

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Mark K.

> > > > >

> > > > > ps... in the famous book of one of the founders of

> > > > > Astrology; Maharishi

> > > > > Parashara, he says:

> > > > >

> > > > > "in the beginning Lord Vishnu, entered into the

> > > > > grahas to bestow upon his

> > > > > devotees, the consequences of their actions..."

> > > > >

> > > > > So, in essence the Planets are really just God, in

> > > > > disguise...

> > > > >

> > > > > I think even Hindus, can learn that Jupiter,

> > > > > himself, ...is just the Lord,

> > > > > in disguise...

> > > > >

> > > > > To pray to them, is not as necessary, except the

> > > > > extent to which the prayer,

> > > > > teaches us how our own actions are causing us our

> > > > > griefs...

> > > > >

> > > > > God, doesn't do anything to us.

> > > > >

> > > > > God, has 2 rules....#1, God gives us complete

> > > > > freedom to doing whatever we

> > > > > would like...

> > > > > #2...however, we're also going to be help

> > > > > accountable for the consequences

> > > > > of our actions...

> > > > >

> > > > > So, we get born with malefic Astrological

> > > > > situations, which mean, that God,

> > > > > or Nature is innocently giving back to us..the

> > > > > product of our 'wrong' of

> > > > > imperfect actions, and if by praying we learn how

> > > > > better to perform those

> > > > > actions,...to turn that malefic into a benefic!...

> > > > >

> > > > > then the prayer is okay...

> > > > >

> > > > > hope this answers and helps...

> > > > >

> > > > > Sincerely,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Mark Kincaid

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste....

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > "Calla, Raman" <rcalla@s...>

> > > > >

> > > > > Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:39:23 -0700

> > > > > <>

> > > > > RE: 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> > > > > K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord

> > > > > -Benefic or Malefic?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Mark:

> > > > >

> > > > > I have few questions for you:

> > > > >

> > > > > Jyotish and Christianity, are they compatible ?

> > > > >

> > > > > For Upaya offering prayer to Jupiter or other planet

> > > > > is against the

> > > > > Christianity.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been asked this question by friend.

> > > > >

> > > > > Can you talk about it.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards!

> > > > >

> > > > > Raman

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Mark Kincaid [m.kincaid@m...]

> > > > > Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:48 AM

> > > > >

> > > > > 2- & Deepak, from Mark

> > > > > K....4/7......re.... Lagna Lord -Benefic

> > > > > or Malefic?

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Deepak & All:

> > > > >

> > > > > There's actually 2 ways of thinking about the

> > > > > relative benefic or malefic

> > > > > status of our Planets...

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, I think the Lagna Lord is always, 'essentially

> > > > > benefic'...

> > > > >

> > > > > but if the first house lord, is in the 12th house,

> > > > > 6th or 8th....

> > > > > then, it may be potentially, benefic, but certainly

> > > > > may be found functioning

> > > > > as a malefic.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take the example, too, of Planets that are ruleing

> > > > > the traditionally,

> > > > > considered, malefic 6th, 8th or 12th houses...

> > > > >

> > > > > They're generally thought of as malefic, but they

> > > > > can certainly be found

> > > > > acting benefically, especially if they're in their

> > > > > own, sign, or Exalted!

> > > > >

> > > > > I love what the sage, Mahrishi Parashara was

> > > > > supposed to say about the

> > > > > planets..

> > > > >

> > > > > In the beginning of his book, on Hora Sastra, he

> > > > > says: "In the Beginning

> > > > > Lord Vishnu entered into the grahas to bestow upon

> > > > > his devotees, the

> > > > > consequences of their karmas."

> > > > >

> > > > > I love this expression because it helps me

> > > > > understand that basically,

> > > > > essentially, all the Planets are benefic or good!

> > > > >

> > > > > Only sometimes, the lord, radiates back to us, less

> > > > > then desirable results,

> > > > > to teach us, so we aspire to develop and improve

> > > > > that side of us....

> > > > >

> > > > > Let's say, someone has Sani, in the 12th House. And

> > > > > it's definitely acting

> > > > > malefic there!

> > > > >

> > > > > Ah...take my chart, yikes!,....but having a Libra

> > > > > rising my Sani, though

> > > > > it's in the 12th house, is still supposed to be

> > > > > benefic!, being yogakaraka,

> > > > > and all...

> > > > >

> > > > > but, my experience, is it's been completely malefic

> > > > > for me!

> > > > >

> > > > > There with my Moon, too, I've experienced a lot of

> > > > > Saturn 12th house,

> > > > > 'losses', due to Sani, including...loss of emotional

> > > > > happiness, sadness,

> > > > > loneliness, lack of money and lots of losses due to

> > > > > too many expenditures..

> > > > >

> > > > > But, immediately when I started strengthening my

> > > > > Sani, and practicing other

> > > > > jyotish remedies which can be said, to directly

> > > > > improve Saturn....I've

> > > > > noticed a complete turn about in my experience of

> > > > > what was previously a very

> > > > > malefic Saturn...

> > > > >

> > > > > Both, medititation and studying Jyotish, and

> > > > > especially, the daily Transits,

> > > > >

> > > > === message truncated ===

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway

> > > > http://promotions./design_giveaway/

[Guest guest]

Nice thoughts these thanks !! there is still some

uncertainity attached to these ... however that is

somethign time will settle i guess

 

I have other questions as well ...

when an avatar is born ... whose karma does he

assume?? say rama .. he underwent so many troubles in

his life !! .. what karma can be associated with

Vishnu himself that he should undergo those

situations??

Vishnu himself is beyond karma !! .. as we try to

answer this I believe we uncover the real intent

behind the idea of karma ... however i would like to

listen to you first !!

 

Also ... as the population on earth keeps increasign

.... constantly new souls have to keep descending from

the source .. what karma should be associated with

them that they should be born to certain parents into

certain patterns of life??

 

If you try to answer these ... you will realise ..

that all people born have all kinds of karmas to deal

with ... and I believe in any given situation ... the

intensity of his own actions in his past times will

determine the outcome and intensity of what he will

experience in his present ... probably this is the

reason why two people with same or similar planetary

configurations experiences different magnitudes of

effects !!

 

hope I am making sense !!

 

 

 

 

 

--- venkatarama_sastry <venkatarama_sastry

wrote:

> Dear Surya,

>

> If I may add my two cents worth here:

>

> > Person A has a karma of having cheated someone

> > sometime in the past. It's time for him now say to

> > experience this karma back. Now in comes Person B

> to

> > cheat Person A to give back his karma.

> >

> > Question is:

> > a) Both the things should match, it's karma time

> for A

> > to get cheated and B to cheat.

>

> Yes. And all of the above, i.e. the actual event, as

> well as the

> giver of the event (B in this case), as well as the

> timing can be

> predicted through the various astrological means.

>

>

> > b) Now would cheating A again add back as Karma to

> B?

> > or will the cycle end for both of them after this?

> if

> > yes .. how can we look for these things in

> astrology?

>

> B has cheated A, so B reaps the appropriate bad

> karma for this.

>

>

> > c) Now ... Karma is impelling A to get cheated and

> B

> > to cheat. However say B decides (since free will

> also

> > has it';s say) not to do the cheating .. then will

> B

> > carry this baggage forward? and Will A escape

> being

> > cheated as well? or will some C come into picture

> and

> > do the needful?

>

> A may still be cheated in the absence of other

> factors. By that, I

> mean that one or more of A's subsequent actions

> could have changed

> the equation. Say A repented for whatever cheating

> he/she did and

> tried to set things right, this might have evened

> the playing field.

> Or say A helped someone in some way, or maybe A has

> suffered for

> this in another way too ... from all I've read,

> Karma is more than a

> simple tit for tat, i.e. A might have paid for

> cheating in ways

> other than being cheated.

>

> And, no B will not carry the baggage, of course. B

> did the right

> thing by not cheating A, this is not a sin.

>

> >

> > Just some brickerings !! Basically Just curious

> to

> > know how to judge when the cycles end??

>

> The cycles end when all people stop performing any

> Karma, good or

> bad. :-) Which, is pretty close to impossible, since

> the simple act

> of living itself creates Karma every second. The

> first step, of

> course, is to stop accumulating more and more evil

> Karma, and to

> increase the good Karma. Getting this far is pretty

> darn good, but

> you can take it to the second step if you really

> want to end the

> cycle. The second step is to rise above all Karma

> either by total

> renunciation, which less than 0.00000000001% of us

> can do, or by the

> conscious detachment from wordly desires, as

> explained in the

> Bhagavat Gita, in which you dedicate everything you

> do to the Lord,

> and do your best without attachment to the results

> of your

> actions.

>

> Just my 2 cents worth!

> Venkatarama

>

> >

> >

> >

> > --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > Dear Raman:

> > >

> > > Astrology and Christianity are definitely

> > > compatible...

> > >

> > > Remind them of the story of the Christ child &

> > > birth...

> > >

> > > It was 3 wise, men kings who had been led by

> their

> > > astrologers....to follow

> > > the Star!

> > > why?

> > >

> > > to find the Christ child...

> > >

> > > So, Astrology's greatest purpose is to help us

> > > evolve, to find the Spiritual

> > > nature of life,

> > > which is beyond the Stars...

> > >

> > > The stars, are the path, through which God,

> > > created.... us..to live to find

> > > Him....

> > >

> > > I understand the anxiety that is there in

> > > Christianity, .... but ....anyone

> > > who understands that anything of value, in the

> > > relative world, from positive

> > > thinking seminar, to an economics course, to

> > > Astrology!...all...can be

> > > helpful...to help us understand...the true

> purpose

> > > of life, is to become

> > > enlightened!

> > >

> > > hope this helps..

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark K.

> > >

> > > ps... in the famous book of one of the founders

> of

> > > Astrology; Maharishi

> > > Parashara, he says:

> > >

> > > "in the beginning Lord Vishnu, entered into the

> > > grahas to bestow upon his

> > > devotees, the consequences of their actions..."

> > >

> > > So, in essence the Planets are really just God,

> in

> > > disguise...

> > >

> > > I think even Hindus, can learn that Jupiter,

> > > himself, ...is just the Lord,

> > > in disguise...

> > >

> > > To pray to them, is not as necessary, except the

> > > extent to which the prayer,

> > > teaches us how our own actions are causing us

> our

> > > griefs...

> > >

> > > God, doesn't do anything to us.

> > >

> > > God, has 2 rules....#1, God gives us complete

> > > freedom to doing whatever we

> > > would like...

> > > #2...however, we're also going to be help

> > > accountable for the consequences

> > > of our actions...

> > >

> > > So, we get born with malefic Astrological

> > > situations, which mean, that God,

> > > or Nature is innocently giving back to us..the

> > > product of our 'wrong' of

> > > imperfect actions, and if by praying we learn

> how

> > > better to perform those

> > > actions,...to turn that malefic into a

> benefic!...

> > >

> > > then the prayer is okay...

> > >

> > > hope this answers and helps...

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Namaste....

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > "Calla, Raman" <rcalla@s...>

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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