Guest guest Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Just happened to read a message by KN Rao a revered teacher, writer and acclaimed jyotishi, on a jyotish weblist. His writings indicate that most jyotishis are either sadly mistaken or at the worst, simply crooks and vultures (not his word, but meaning) and must be regulated and so on. He is careful never to name anyone, but his reference to 'kavachs' and "schools" leaves little to imagination. How do individuals feel on this list? Have you experienced, personally or through a jyotishi any evidence that indicates that jyotish can be accurate, consistently? Be very careful, because many of these jyotishis who take charts to bed and then do japam and meditation on the chart as "a picture emerges, slowly and reveals its contents ..." may be actually invoking something that is neither jyotish based nor logic-dependent. The odd jyotishi may be an accurate prognosticator and some can even justify their predictions using some astrological rules, but I cannot forget what I heard one of my teachers say: If astrology is all techniques then it must be transferable to a large extent without a lot of spiritual mumbo-jumbo or even considerations. After all there are more mechanics that have comparable and good level of skills than astrologers. How can two 'technical/scientific' and thus transferable skill have such different track records, in modern world? <end of quote> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Dear All, Please do not mind my long message. I just want to write down some perspectives on Jyotish for reflection. I hope to describe the subjects vastness and complexity. --Jyotish tries to capture the effects of time. At highest level it is attuned to the evolution of the creation. --We know from several texts that all the planets now considered in the horoscope were great beings who were granted boons/offices and became office bearers. --As such several luminaries, including constellations and remote stars, new stars etc would affect the magnetic fields and influence life. However only the nine planets and 12 houses for most of our work. As these luminaries are also live beings and ever engaged in sadhana, there qualities and properties, inter-relationships keep changing. --There are many systems in vogue bequeathed by various sages. It is my humble understanding that these systems cannot be mixed together, neither the rishis have penned down everything. Some texts are explicit on this matter, esp. areas on longevity and graha dasas --In BHPS itself 40 dasa systems are mentioned!! BHPS indicates that D-150 (Nadi-Amsa) is very important, which means accuracy of charts upto 12 mts of accuracy -- any mathematician can calculate now the total combinations of 12 planets. Practically it is extremely difficult to construct a Nadi-amsa with any reliability. --Also to be considered are place, family, cultural factors. As we know, there are various jyotish traditions all over the world, developed in different times and places and helpful to various peoples and traditions. In my view, different astrological factors have governed the various cultures at various times, so it could be that eastern astrology may not apply to people from other cultures. E.g. some metaphysical texts assign various planetary rulers to various races like, White - Venus, Yellow- Mars, Brown - Mercury, Black - Jupiter. Yet due to the mixing of various cultures today, it is difficult to identify which system is applicable to whom. In my view it is presumptious to suppose that one system will fit all. --My own view is that it takes intuition to learn jyotish. Intuition can only be developed under discipleship. Most people have varied degrees of intuition, usually it gets mixed up by the desires and passions and is not understood. The intuition has to be developed to become steady, only then it is reliable. I am unable to describe all what I think about this subject. Suffice it to say that we have to proceed with extreme caution in our studies, step-by-step and try to verify whatever we understand. Maybe some of the more learned members can throw light with brevity and precision. Please pardon my poor articulation, but I hope to bring some important matters on the table for discussion -Manish P. Jain , "Manas Kumar" <manaskumar@h...> wrote: > Just happened to read a message by KN Rao a revered teacher, writer > and acclaimed jyotishi, on a jyotish weblist. His writings indicate > that most jyotishis are either sadly mistaken or at the worst, > simply crooks and vultures (not his word, but meaning) and must be > regulated and so on. He is careful never to name anyone, but his > reference to 'kavachs' and "schools" leaves little to imagination. > > How do individuals feel on this list? Have you experienced, > personally or through a jyotishi any evidence that indicates that > jyotish can be accurate, consistently? > > Be very careful, because many of these jyotishis who take charts to > bed and then do japam and meditation on the chart as "a picture > emerges, slowly and reveals its contents ..." may be actually > invoking something that is neither jyotish based nor logic- dependent. > > The odd jyotishi may be an accurate prognosticator and some can even > justify their predictions using some astrological rules, but I > cannot forget what I heard one of my teachers say: If astrology is > all techniques then it must be transferable to a large extent > without a lot of spiritual mumbo-jumbo or even considerations. After > all there are more mechanics that have comparable and good level of > skills than astrologers. How can two 'technical/scientific' and thus > transferable skill have such different track records, in modern > world? <end of quote> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Thanks for writing. Some people even shy away from mixing parashara and jaimini principles although both are described in BPHS. None of them give clear reasons for or examples of WHY the principles cannot be mixed or worse that they cancel each other or something like that. I think there is a lot of hype that exists on the jyotish scene. Some of the opinions are not even fact-based or practical considerations but remain unchallenged. , "manish_p_jain" <manish_p_jain> wrote: > Dear All, > > Please do not mind my long message. I just want to write down some > perspectives on Jyotish for reflection. I hope to describe the > subjects vastness and complexity. > > --Jyotish tries to capture the effects of time. At highest level it > is attuned to the evolution of the creation. > > --We know from several texts that all the planets now considered in > the horoscope were great beings who were granted boons/offices and > became office bearers. > > --As such several luminaries, including constellations and remote > stars, new stars etc would affect the magnetic fields and influence > life. However only the nine planets and 12 houses for most of our > work. As these luminaries are also live beings and ever engaged in > sadhana, there qualities and properties, inter-relationships keep > changing. > > --There are many systems in vogue bequeathed by various sages. It is > my humble understanding that these systems cannot be mixed together, > neither the rishis have penned down everything. Some texts are > explicit on this matter, esp. areas on longevity and graha dasas > > --In BHPS itself 40 dasa systems are mentioned!! BHPS indicates that > D-150 (Nadi-Amsa) is very important, which means accuracy of charts > upto 12 mts of accuracy -- any mathematician can calculate now the > total combinations of 12 planets. Practically it is extremely > difficult to construct a Nadi-amsa with any reliability. > > --Also to be considered are place, family, cultural factors. As we > know, there are various jyotish traditions all over the world, > developed in different times and places and helpful to various > peoples and traditions. In my view, different astrological factors > have governed the various cultures at various times, so it could be > that eastern astrology may not apply to people from other cultures. > E.g. some metaphysical texts assign various planetary rulers to > various races like, White - Venus, Yellow- Mars, Brown - Mercury, > Black - Jupiter. Yet due to the mixing of various cultures today, it > is difficult to identify which system is applicable to whom. In my > view it is presumptious to suppose that one system will fit all. > > --My own view is that it takes intuition to learn jyotish. Intuition > can only be developed under discipleship. Most people have varied > degrees of intuition, usually it gets mixed up by the desires and > passions and is not understood. The intuition has to be developed to > become steady, only then it is reliable. > > I am unable to describe all what I think about this subject. Suffice > it to say that we have to proceed with extreme caution in our > studies, step-by-step and try to verify whatever we understand. Maybe > some of the more learned members can throw light with brevity and > precision. Please pardon my poor articulation, but I hope to bring > some important matters on the table for discussion > > -Manish P. Jain > > , "Manas Kumar" > <manaskumar@h...> wrote: > > Just happened to read a message by KN Rao a revered teacher, writer > > and acclaimed jyotishi, on a jyotish weblist. His writings indicate > > that most jyotishis are either sadly mistaken or at the worst, > > simply crooks and vultures (not his word, but meaning) and must be > > regulated and so on. He is careful never to name anyone, but his > > reference to 'kavachs' and "schools" leaves little to imagination. > > > > How do individuals feel on this list? Have you experienced, > > personally or through a jyotishi any evidence that indicates that > > jyotish can be accurate, consistently? > > > > Be very careful, because many of these jyotishis who take charts to > > bed and then do japam and meditation on the chart as "a picture > > emerges, slowly and reveals its contents ..." may be actually > > invoking something that is neither jyotish based nor logic- > dependent. > > > > The odd jyotishi may be an accurate prognosticator and some can > even > > justify their predictions using some astrological rules, but I > > cannot forget what I heard one of my teachers say: If astrology is > > all techniques then it must be transferable to a large extent > > without a lot of spiritual mumbo-jumbo or even considerations. > After > > all there are more mechanics that have comparable and good level of > > skills than astrologers. How can two 'technical/scientific' and > thus > > transferable skill have such different track records, in modern > > world? <end of quote> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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