Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the tragedy last Friday.., where a fire accident at a local school in kumbakonam ( tamil nadu) claimed 90 lives of young & innocent children. Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent wondering how such a disaster could not be kept under control & lives saved. I was just unable to control myself but ask these questions to the group : 1. Can such incidents be predicted with astrological tools & analysis? 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be the same, so how come they met this unfortunate end ?? Please lets have your thoughts & reading. rgds Manju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Dear Friends I am not at all an astrologer, but your queries were thought provoking and thus I am responding with wahtever I've heard. I was reading once a free newsletter of Cyberastro.com, wherein almost the same issues were discussed in the cointext of a plane crash. The expert there surmised that the larger events cannot be predicted or controlled by the astrological methods. However, these methofs are good enough to predict the likelyhood of suffering under events affecting us individually, like a car accident. Being a lay person , I offer this based on my mem,ory of the article. Ashutosh --- "Manjunath, T (MED)" <T.Manjunath wrote: > Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, > > i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the > tragedy last Friday.., > where a fire accident at a local school in > kumbakonam ( tamil nadu) claimed > 90 lives of young & innocent children. > > Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent > wondering how such > a disaster could not be kept under control & lives > saved. > > I was just unable to control myself but ask these > questions to the group : > > 1. Can such incidents be predicted with > astrological tools & analysis? > > 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be > the same, so how come > they met this unfortunate end ?? > > Please lets have your thoughts & reading. > > rgds > > Manju > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hello Manju, You are right when you say that the charts of all those who died would be different. But you should also remember, that "Birtds of the same Feather, flock together" All those who perished in fire, must have had similar APAMRITYU YOGA" in their horoscopes. Tatvam-Asi "Manjunath, T (MED)" <T.Manjunath wrote: Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the tragedy last Friday.., where a fire accident at a local school in kumbakonam ( tamil nadu) claimed 90 lives of young & innocent children. Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent wondering how such a disaster could not be kept under control & lives saved. I was just unable to control myself but ask these questions to the group : 1. Can such incidents be predicted with astrological tools & analysis? 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be the same, so how come they met this unfortunate end ?? Please lets have your thoughts & reading. rgds Manju ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ st have heard the adage, "Birds of the same feather flock together" Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Questions like these really should make fatalistic astrologers who believe (publicly or privately) that fate is predestined and 'atal' (unchangeable), sit up and think. The only way to definitively figure out this puzzle or similar ones (there is no lack of events, floods, earthquakes, towers, airplane crashes, wars etc. abound aplenty). However, has any astrologer ever looked at or managed to get good quality data of victims of such horrible events and analysed those and come up with a documented report? I have not heard of a single one that methodically looks at such events. So how can one even opine let alone give a definitive answer to such a puzzle? Even before that, can astrologers tell the exact moment of death? If they cannot tell the exact moment of death (okay even within a couple of days...) then how can they figure out what caused death in so many with such different charts, etc.? This would be requirement #1 before your bigger and more complex astrological puzzle can even be attacked -- even if we do manage to get high quality data of a sizeable number of victims. And then there is the case that comes to mind from some 15-20 years ago when there was only one survivor in a airplane crash near Japan, a small child. There is also the WWII instance of the pilot who fell down 20000 feet from his fighter jet and survived. I hope I am not perturbing the status quo by again going against the grain or practice followed on this list. RR , "Manjunath, T \(MED\)" <T.Manjunath@g...> wrote: > Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, > > i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the tragedy last Friday.., > where a fire accident at a local school in kumbakonam ( tamil nadu) claimed > 90 lives of young & innocent children. > > Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent wondering how such > a disaster could not be kept under control & lives saved. > > I was just unable to control myself but ask these questions to the group : > > 1. Can such incidents be predicted with astrological tools & analysis? > > 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be the same, so how come > they met this unfortunate end ?? > > Please lets have your thoughts & reading. > > rgds > > Manju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hello Dear RR, To differ does not mean to oppose. Sometimes this being also has deeply thought on this problem. The only plausible thing that comes to mind is, COLLECTIVE NEGETIVITY . When some negetive force comes together with another negetive force, it is possible that there is a synergistic reaction. Meaning, 1+1 makes 2 but in synergistic reaction, it can make 1+1=11. There is , thus a possibility that such a thing should occur. Collective state of being is also subject to collective fate. It is like, a body of villagers being imposed with a collective fine/punishment. Hope this might give a new perspective to your state of perspective. Tatvam-Asi , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Questions like these really should make fatalistic astrologers who > believe (publicly or privately) that fate is predestined and 'atal' > (unchangeable), sit up and think. > > The only way to definitively figure out this puzzle or similar ones > (there is no lack of events, floods, earthquakes, towers, airplane > crashes, wars etc. abound aplenty). However, has any astrologer ever > looked at or managed to get good quality data of victims of such > horrible events and analysed those and come up with a documented > report? I have not heard of a single one that methodically looks at > such events. So how can one even opine let alone give a definitive > answer to such a puzzle? > > Even before that, can astrologers tell the exact moment of death? If > they cannot tell the exact moment of death (okay even within a > couple of days...) then how can they figure out what caused death in > so many with such different charts, etc.? This would be requirement > #1 before your bigger and more complex astrological puzzle can even > be attacked -- even if we do manage to get high quality data of a > sizeable number of victims. And then there is the case that comes to > mind from some 15-20 years ago when there was only one survivor in a > airplane crash near Japan, a small child. There is also the WWII > instance of the pilot who fell down 20000 feet from his fighter jet > and survived. > > I hope I am not perturbing the status quo by again going against the > grain or practice followed on this list. > > > RR > > > , "Manjunath, T \(MED\)" > <T.Manjunath@g...> wrote: > > Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, > > > > i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the tragedy last > Friday.., > > where a fire accident at a local school in kumbakonam ( tamil > nadu) claimed > > 90 lives of young & innocent children. > > > > Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent wondering how such > > a disaster could not be kept under control & lives saved. > > > > I was just unable to control myself but ask these questions to the > group : > > > > 1. Can such incidents be predicted with astrological tools & > analysis? > > > > 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be the same, so > how come > > they met this unfortunate end ?? > > > > Please lets have your thoughts & reading. > > > > rgds > > > > Manju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I approach jyotish and life with two perspectives, dear sir. One deals with the practical and the other ethereal. While both can be conceived and understood simultaneously, it is difficult and confusing to try and describe the two at the same time, hence sometimes my postings confuse some. In this context (group disasters, group deaths as in an accident caused by nature or nature's *gift* to planet earth, humans!), the ethereal take would be to talk about group karma, collective karma and the dove-tailing that can be found in some descriptions. However, attractive as these concepts may be and truly embracing total reality, perhaps, they represent the enjoyment and understanding of art and art objects. Jyotishis and others must NEVER lose that perspective. However, there is the other perspective too, of the practical jyotish. This is akin to the left-brained aspects of art, the learning and training of the artist whose karma it is to bring the energy received through the right-brain into expression and sharing of the beautiful energy that comes through the right-brain and expressed through the left brain. I am using crude terms, right brain, left brain, but I am sure wise ones like you would grasp the meaning. It is like a gourmand, who appreciates exquisite cooking -- now transferring that taste into an expression that makes him or her cook and reproduce the taste into tangible dishes that others may also enjoy. This is what hopefully we often discuss here on this practical list. So, while collective karma might be driving the event in question, we do not have a good technical handle on how these things show up in charts, of individuals and of groups sharing the gruesome experience in earthly terms. In order to cook and to teach others to cook, there must be recipes that can be followed and in this particular situation, the recipes are missing because most if not all of us have not examined actual charts of victims such as these. If we have not, how can we even state the drama or reasons behind such cosmic dramas? I was merely sounding caution. One of the biggest problems with astrology is that it has a illusive logical structure which some would vehemently deny and argue against. Quite honestly, years ago when I had a lot of bookish knowledge under my belt but little direct experience and knowledge of charts, things seemed so easy and logical and was so sure that this or that dasha would bring things to focus and fruition, be it marriage, childbirth etc. The school of hard knocks soon taught me that what appears in books, old and new is often not true and simple or direct logic in terms of yogas etc. mysteriously does not work in prospective analyses, aka predictive astrology. It was not easy when innocence was challenged by nature and destroyed and the real learning began. Perhaps like an overprotective older traveller, I wish to spare the younger brothers and sisters the pain of disillusionment. This will make me run against the grain of the established 'religion' of astrology. So be it! RR , "om_tatsat_om" <om_tatsat_om> wrote: > > > Hello Dear RR, > To differ does not mean to oppose. > > Sometimes this being also has deeply thought on this problem. > The only plausible thing that comes to mind is, > COLLECTIVE NEGETIVITY . > When some negetive force comes together with another negetive force, > it is possible that there is a synergistic reaction. > Meaning, 1+1 makes 2 but in synergistic reaction, it can make 1+1=11. > > There is , thus a possibility that such a thing should occur. > Collective state of being is also subject to collective fate. > > It is like, a body of villagers being imposed with a collective > fine/punishment. > Hope this might give a new perspective to your state of perspective. > > Tatvam-Asi , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > Questions like these really should make fatalistic astrologers who > > believe (publicly or privately) that fate is predestined and 'atal' > > (unchangeable), sit up and think. > > > > The only way to definitively figure out this puzzle or similar ones > > (there is no lack of events, floods, earthquakes, towers, airplane > > crashes, wars etc. abound aplenty). However, has any astrologer > ever > > looked at or managed to get good quality data of victims of such > > horrible events and analysed those and come up with a documented > > report? I have not heard of a single one that methodically looks at > > such events. So how can one even opine let alone give a definitive > > answer to such a puzzle? > > > > Even before that, can astrologers tell the exact moment of death? > If > > they cannot tell the exact moment of death (okay even within a > > couple of days...) then how can they figure out what caused death > in > > so many with such different charts, etc.? This would be requirement > > #1 before your bigger and more complex astrological puzzle can even > > be attacked -- even if we do manage to get high quality data of a > > sizeable number of victims. And then there is the case that comes > to > > mind from some 15-20 years ago when there was only one survivor in > a > > airplane crash near Japan, a small child. There is also the WWII > > instance of the pilot who fell down 20000 feet from his fighter jet > > and survived. > > > > I hope I am not perturbing the status quo by again going against > the > > grain or practice followed on this list. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "Manjunath, T \(MED\)" > > <T.Manjunath@g...> wrote: > > > Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, > > > > > > i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the tragedy last > > Friday.., > > > where a fire accident at a local school in kumbakonam ( tamil > > nadu) claimed > > > 90 lives of young & innocent children. > > > > > > Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent wondering how > such > > > a disaster could not be kept under control & lives saved. > > > > > > I was just unable to control myself but ask these questions to > the > > group : > > > > > > 1. Can such incidents be predicted with astrological tools & > > analysis? > > > > > > 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be the same, so > > how come > > > they met this unfortunate end ?? > > > > > > Please lets have your thoughts & reading. > > > > > > rgds > > > > > > Manju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Dear Rohiniranjan, Very nicely put. I am impressed by both your practical and ethereal sides. You've described learning in a nutshell, when you said "It > was not easy when innocence was challenged by nature and destroyed > and the real learning began." You've learnt a lot when you start to see how much you don't know, don't you think! You reminded me of a quote from Newton, probably one of the most renowed physicists of all times. He once said that he thinks of himself as a little boy, playing on the sandy shore, amusing himself with shells and colored pebbles, when in front of him was the vast unexplored ocean, full of unimaginable treasures! Truly a great man, to have realised the limits of his own knowledge, even when the rest of the world recognized his genius. At another time, he observed, "If it seems like I have seen a little further than most people, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." What rare modesty. "Perhaps like an overprotective older traveller, I wish to spare the > younger brothers and sisters the pain of disillusionment. This will > make me run against the grain of the established 'religion' of > astrology. So be it!" Yes, I know exactly what you mean. Although your impulse to spare others this pain is laudable, my dear friend, our younger brothers and sisters will, hopefully, learn from their astrological experiences just as you have. Sreelatha , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > I approach jyotish and life with two perspectives, dear sir. One > deals with the practical and the other ethereal. While both can be > conceived and understood simultaneously, it is difficult and > confusing to try and describe the two at the same time, hence > sometimes my postings confuse some. > > In this context (group disasters, group deaths as in an accident > caused by nature or nature's *gift* to planet earth, humans!), the > ethereal take would be to talk about group karma, collective karma > and the dove-tailing that can be found in some descriptions. > However, attractive as these concepts may be and truly embracing > total reality, perhaps, they represent the enjoyment and > understanding of art and art objects. Jyotishis and others must > NEVER lose that perspective. > > However, there is the other perspective too, of the practical > jyotish. This is akin to the left-brained aspects of art, the > learning and training of the artist whose karma it is to bring the > energy received through the right-brain into expression and sharing > of the beautiful energy that comes through the right-brain and > expressed through the left brain. I am using crude terms, right > brain, left brain, but I am sure wise ones like you would grasp the > meaning. It is like a gourmand, who appreciates exquisite cooking -- > now transferring that taste into an expression that makes him or her > cook and reproduce the taste into tangible dishes that others may > also enjoy. > > This is what hopefully we often discuss here on this practical list. > So, while collective karma might be driving the event in question, > we do not have a good technical handle on how these things show up > in charts, of individuals and of groups sharing the gruesome > experience in earthly terms. > > In order to cook and to teach others to cook, there must be recipes > that can be followed and in this particular situation, the recipes > are missing because most if not all of us have not examined actual > charts of victims such as these. If we have not, how can we even > state the drama or reasons behind such cosmic dramas? I was merely > sounding caution. One of the biggest problems with astrology is that > it has a illusive logical structure which some would vehemently deny > and argue against. Quite honestly, years ago when I had a lot of > bookish knowledge under my belt but little direct experience and > knowledge of charts, things seemed so easy and logical and was so > sure that this or that dasha would bring things to focus and > fruition, be it marriage, childbirth etc. The school of hard knocks > soon taught me that what appears in books, old and new is often not > true and simple or direct logic in terms of yogas etc. mysteriously > does not work in prospective analyses, aka predictive astrology. It > was not easy when innocence was challenged by nature and destroyed > and the real learning began. > > Perhaps like an overprotective older traveller, I wish to spare the > younger brothers and sisters the pain of disillusionment. This will > make me run against the grain of the established 'religion' of > astrology. So be it! > > RR > > > > , "om_tatsat_om" > <om_tatsat_om> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Dear RR, > > To differ does not mean to oppose. > > > > Sometimes this being also has deeply thought on this problem. > > The only plausible thing that comes to mind is, > > COLLECTIVE NEGETIVITY . > > When some negetive force comes together with another negetive > force, > > it is possible that there is a synergistic reaction. > > Meaning, 1+1 makes 2 but in synergistic reaction, it can make > 1+1=11. > > > > There is , thus a possibility that such a thing should occur. > > Collective state of being is also subject to collective fate. > > > > It is like, a body of villagers being imposed with a collective > > fine/punishment. > > Hope this might give a new perspective to your state of > perspective. > > > > Tatvam-Asi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > Questions like these really should make fatalistic astrologers > who > > > believe (publicly or privately) that fate is predestined > and 'atal' > > > (unchangeable), sit up and think. > > > > > > The only way to definitively figure out this puzzle or similar > ones > > > (there is no lack of events, floods, earthquakes, towers, > airplane > > > crashes, wars etc. abound aplenty). However, has any astrologer > > ever > > > looked at or managed to get good quality data of victims of such > > > horrible events and analysed those and come up with a documented > > > report? I have not heard of a single one that methodically looks > at > > > such events. So how can one even opine let alone give a > definitive > > > answer to such a puzzle? > > > > > > Even before that, can astrologers tell the exact moment of > death? > > If > > > they cannot tell the exact moment of death (okay even within a > > > couple of days...) then how can they figure out what caused > death > > in > > > so many with such different charts, etc.? This would be > requirement > > > #1 before your bigger and more complex astrological puzzle can > even > > > be attacked -- even if we do manage to get high quality data of > a > > > sizeable number of victims. And then there is the case that > comes > > to > > > mind from some 15-20 years ago when there was only one survivor > in > > a > > > airplane crash near Japan, a small child. There is also the WWII > > > instance of the pilot who fell down 20000 feet from his fighter > jet > > > and survived. > > > > > > I hope I am not perturbing the status quo by again going against > > the > > > grain or practice followed on this list. > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , "Manjunath, T \(MED\)" > > > <T.Manjunath@g...> wrote: > > > > Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, > > > > > > > > i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the tragedy > last > > > Friday.., > > > > where a fire accident at a local school in kumbakonam ( tamil > > > nadu) claimed > > > > 90 lives of young & innocent children. > > > > > > > > Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent wondering how > > such > > > > a disaster could not be kept under control & lives saved. > > > > > > > > I was just unable to control myself but ask these questions to > > the > > > group : > > > > > > > > 1. Can such incidents be predicted with astrological tools & > > > analysis? > > > > > > > > 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be the same, > so > > > how come > > > > they met this unfortunate end ?? > > > > > > > > Please lets have your thoughts & reading. > > > > > > > > rgds > > > > > > > > Manju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Dear sirs, if you are talking about - 1) fate and free wills etc. AND 2) collective predictions THEN for #2 I have discussed something like it in my article about D- charts AND for both # 1 and 2 I am coming up with my new site, the essay of NECESSITY OF ASTROLOGY what you would get within a weak from now I hope. It is a big article though; but load your machineguns !!!! Tanvir. , "om_tatsat_om" <om_tatsat_om> wrote: > > > Hello Dear RR, > To differ does not mean to oppose. > > Sometimes this being also has deeply thought on this problem. > The only plausible thing that comes to mind is, > COLLECTIVE NEGETIVITY . > When some negetive force comes together with another negetive force, > it is possible that there is a synergistic reaction. > Meaning, 1+1 makes 2 but in synergistic reaction, it can make 1+1=11. > > There is , thus a possibility that such a thing should occur. > Collective state of being is also subject to collective fate. > > It is like, a body of villagers being imposed with a collective > fine/punishment. > Hope this might give a new perspective to your state of perspective. > > Tatvam-Asi , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > Questions like these really should make fatalistic astrologers who > > believe (publicly or privately) that fate is predestined and 'atal' > > (unchangeable), sit up and think. > > > > The only way to definitively figure out this puzzle or similar ones > > (there is no lack of events, floods, earthquakes, towers, airplane > > crashes, wars etc. abound aplenty). However, has any astrologer > ever > > looked at or managed to get good quality data of victims of such > > horrible events and analysed those and come up with a documented > > report? I have not heard of a single one that methodically looks at > > such events. So how can one even opine let alone give a definitive > > answer to such a puzzle? > > > > Even before that, can astrologers tell the exact moment of death? > If > > they cannot tell the exact moment of death (okay even within a > > couple of days...) then how can they figure out what caused death > in > > so many with such different charts, etc.? This would be requirement > > #1 before your bigger and more complex astrological puzzle can even > > be attacked -- even if we do manage to get high quality data of a > > sizeable number of victims. And then there is the case that comes > to > > mind from some 15-20 years ago when there was only one survivor in > a > > airplane crash near Japan, a small child. There is also the WWII > > instance of the pilot who fell down 20000 feet from his fighter jet > > and survived. > > > > I hope I am not perturbing the status quo by again going against > the > > grain or practice followed on this list. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "Manjunath, T \(MED\)" > > <T.Manjunath@g...> wrote: > > > Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, > > > > > > i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the tragedy last > > Friday.., > > > where a fire accident at a local school in kumbakonam ( tamil > > nadu) claimed > > > 90 lives of young & innocent children. > > > > > > Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent wondering how > such > > > a disaster could not be kept under control & lives saved. > > > > > > I was just unable to control myself but ask these questions to > the > > group : > > > > > > 1. Can such incidents be predicted with astrological tools & > > analysis? > > > > > > 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be the same, so > > how come > > > they met this unfortunate end ?? > > > > > > Please lets have your thoughts & reading. > > > > > > rgds > > > > > > Manju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 dear rohini ji, nothing like "practice followed on this list"... just sometimes a team (of opinion) has more machineguns than another team of opinions :-P Tanvir. , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Questions like these really should make fatalistic astrologers who > believe (publicly or privately) that fate is predestined and 'atal' > (unchangeable), sit up and think. > > The only way to definitively figure out this puzzle or similar ones > (there is no lack of events, floods, earthquakes, towers, airplane > crashes, wars etc. abound aplenty). However, has any astrologer ever > looked at or managed to get good quality data of victims of such > horrible events and analysed those and come up with a documented > report? I have not heard of a single one that methodically looks at > such events. So how can one even opine let alone give a definitive > answer to such a puzzle? > > Even before that, can astrologers tell the exact moment of death? If > they cannot tell the exact moment of death (okay even within a > couple of days...) then how can they figure out what caused death in > so many with such different charts, etc.? This would be requirement > #1 before your bigger and more complex astrological puzzle can even > be attacked -- even if we do manage to get high quality data of a > sizeable number of victims. And then there is the case that comes to > mind from some 15-20 years ago when there was only one survivor in a > airplane crash near Japan, a small child. There is also the WWII > instance of the pilot who fell down 20000 feet from his fighter jet > and survived. > > I hope I am not perturbing the status quo by again going against the > grain or practice followed on this list. > > > RR > > > , "Manjunath, T \(MED\)" > <T.Manjunath@g...> wrote: > > Dear Friends, Good Morning to all, > > > > i am sure all of us must have heard or followed the tragedy last > Friday.., > > where a fire accident at a local school in kumbakonam ( tamil > nadu) claimed > > 90 lives of young & innocent children. > > > > Yes, Shocking indeed, the whole weekend i spent wondering how such > > a disaster could not be kept under control & lives saved. > > > > I was just unable to control myself but ask these questions to the > group : > > > > 1. Can such incidents be predicted with astrological tools & > analysis? > > > > 2. certainly, the charts of the 90 kids cannot be the same, so > how come > > they met this unfortunate end ?? > > > > Please lets have your thoughts & reading. > > > > rgds > > > > Manju Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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