Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 DEAR ALL, The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house (LAGNA chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I am going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate prediction. Please clarify. With Regards, Anirban Basu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Dear Basu, You have to follow any syastem and go by that. In KP system we go by bhava positioning of planets and the planets in 9th bhava can not give results of 10th bhava. Inder -- In , "basu_email" <basu_email> wrote: > DEAR ALL, > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house (LAGNA > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I am > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > prediction. > > Please clarify. > > With Regards, > > Anirban Basu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 and the so called bhava (house-division) charts are not standard either, even in jyotish. People use the following: Whole sign house, simplest, here the bhava chart is the same as rashi(sign) chart. If aries is rising, then any planet in taurus is in the 2nd house and so on. Equal House division: Utilizing the 30 degree area around the rising degree (+/- 15 on each side of the degree) one defines the houses, so depending on the rising degree, a house may contain portions of two signs. and the unequal house divisions: Sripati: Commonly used for shadbala and bhava bala and aspects. The ascendant degree and medium coeli (zenith) is used to derive the rest of the houses by trisecting the arc between rising and MC and applying that to the other houses. Same as Porphyrii system of western astrology. Alcabitus: Same logic as above but works with time of rising of MC (trisects the arc in units of time, rather than degrees) Many other unequal house divisions other than the two above are utilized in western astrology. Interestingly, at higher latitudes, where some of the signs may not rise at all in certain times of the years, you can get intercepted signs (3 signs in one house, one of which does not show up as the midpoint at all). Of these Krishnamurthi (KP) utilized Placidus system and also followed the western/tropical convention of using the rising degree as the beginning of the house rather than the middle of the house as other jyotishis use. KP subs are, therefore, based on Placidius cusps. I don't know if they (KP subs) have been researched with more conventional (in Jyotish) house systems. There are also systems like the zenith system, east point system, regiomontanus, morinus and many other house division systems, some of which have been tested by jyotishis. Most turn back to whole sign or equal house system after a bit of experimentation. All of these others are mathematically more precise from a geocentric point of view, but whether they really work in practice is another story. If mathematical precision was the driver, I would use really precise systems rather than ones based on averaging such as porphyrii or placidus, obviously. RR , "basu_email" <basu_email> wrote: > DEAR ALL, > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house (LAGNA > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I am > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > prediction. > > Please clarify. > > With Regards, > > Anirban Basu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Dear Anirban, If you go strictly as per the vedic astrology and Maharishis, Rasi = House is the the way chart is to be seen. Varahamihira in his classic Brihat Jataka calls Rasi as a House. Brihat parasar Hora also gives some clues on the same lines. Morever, when we advance in Jyotish and study Divisional Charts and Maharish Jaimini, then this the only approach that can be taken. So, it is best for the time being to take the rashi rising as first house and next rasi as the second house and all planets that are in any degree of the rasi are in the same house as shown by the rasi. Rasi may be treated like a room and if you enter the rom from this corner or that corner, you are still in the same room and house. Bhava Chart may have some uses, but it is best to take Rasi Chart and study the houses. Best regards, Rajat , "basu_email" <basu_email> wrote: > DEAR ALL, > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house (LAGNA > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I am > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > prediction. > > Please clarify. > > With Regards, > > Anirban Basu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Do not know about other house systems, but I have thought about the +/- 15 degree house system and saw that it can not be true. And I do not think that the system which starts a house from the Lagna degree is not true either, because my own lagna is in 15 degree, then all the planets would change the houses than in what they are in the whole sign whole house systems. But in practice this whole sign gives good results. I wonder how KP gives such good predictions being *armed* with such *machineguns* of different ayanamsa and different house systems? May be Rohini Ji can explain it better ("Reloading machineguns" !???!!) ... LOL !!! Tanvir. , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > and the so called bhava (house-division) charts are not standard > either, even in jyotish. People use the following: > > Whole sign house, simplest, here the bhava chart is the same as > rashi(sign) chart. If aries is rising, then any planet in taurus is in > the 2nd house and so on. > > Equal House division: Utilizing the 30 degree area around the rising > degree (+/- 15 on each side of the degree) one defines the houses, so > depending on the rising degree, a house may contain portions of two > signs. > > and the unequal house divisions: > > Sripati: Commonly used for shadbala and bhava bala and aspects. The > ascendant degree and medium coeli (zenith) is used to derive the rest > of the houses by trisecting the arc between rising and MC and applying > that to the other houses. Same as Porphyrii system of western > astrology. > > Alcabitus: Same logic as above but works with time of rising of MC > (trisects the arc in units of time, rather than degrees) > > Many other unequal house divisions other than the two above are > utilized in western astrology. Interestingly, at higher latitudes, > where some of the signs may not rise at all in certain times of the > years, you can get intercepted signs (3 signs in one house, one of > which does not show up as the midpoint at all). > > Of these Krishnamurthi (KP) utilized Placidus system and also > followed the western/tropical convention of using the rising degree as > the beginning of the house rather than the middle of the house as > other jyotishis use. KP subs are, therefore, based on Placidius cusps. > I don't know if they (KP subs) have been researched with more > conventional (in Jyotish) house systems. > > There are also systems like the zenith system, east point system, > regiomontanus, morinus and many other house division systems, some of > which have been tested by jyotishis. Most turn back to whole sign or > equal house system after a bit of experimentation. > > All of these others are mathematically more precise from a geocentric > point of view, but whether they really work in practice is another > story. If mathematical precision was the driver, I would use really > precise systems rather than ones based on averaging such as porphyrii > or placidus, obviously. > > RR > > > > , "basu_email" > <basu_email> wrote: > > DEAR ALL, > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house (LAGNA > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I am > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > > prediction. > > > > Please clarify. > > > > With Regards, > > > > Anirban Basu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 > If you go strictly as per the vedic astrology and Maharishis, Rasi = > House is the the way chart is to be seen. > > Varahamihira in his classic Brihat Jataka calls Rasi as a House. > Brihat parasar Hora also gives some clues on the same lines. Morever, > when we advance in Jyotish and study Divisional Charts and Maharish > Jaimini, then this the only approach that can be taken. exactly said... I remember Narasimha Ji saying that there are a few indirect references in BPHS against of "whole sign-whole house" but there are a few direct references in the same in favour of whole sign- whole house. Tanvir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Dear friends, I could not follow what Sh RR meant when he says: I do not know if KP Subs have been researched with more conventional house system. In KP we use Placidus system and take a bhava from cusp to cusp. A Sub is subdivisions of a Nakshtra as per Vimshottari dasa system division of time. With this basic principles of Hindu astrology and Vimshottari dasa system is followed. In the results of transits also planets' position in a house,or star and sub is to seen for making any judgement. Inder , "Tanvir Chowdhury" <lord_narayana@l...> wrote: > Do not know about other house systems, but I have thought about the > +/- 15 degree house system and saw that it can not be true. And I do > not think that the system which starts a house from the Lagna degree > is not true either, because my own lagna is in 15 degree, then all > the planets would change the houses than in what they are in the > whole sign whole house systems. But in practice this whole sign gives > good results. > > I wonder how KP gives such good predictions being *armed* with such > *machineguns* of different ayanamsa and different house systems? May > be Rohini Ji can explain it better ("Reloading > machineguns" !???!!) ... LOL !!! > > Tanvir. > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > and the so called bhava (house-division) charts are not standard > > either, even in jyotish. People use the following: > > > > Whole sign house, simplest, here the bhava chart is the same as > > rashi(sign) chart. If aries is rising, then any planet in taurus is > in > > the 2nd house and so on. > > > > Equal House division: Utilizing the 30 degree area around the > rising > > degree (+/- 15 on each side of the degree) one defines the houses, > so > > depending on the rising degree, a house may contain portions of two > > signs. > > > > and the unequal house divisions: > > > > Sripati: Commonly used for shadbala and bhava bala and aspects. The > > ascendant degree and medium coeli (zenith) is used to derive the > rest > > of the houses by trisecting the arc between rising and MC and > applying > > that to the other houses. Same as Porphyrii system of western > > astrology. > > > > Alcabitus: Same logic as above but works with time of rising of MC > > (trisects the arc in units of time, rather than degrees) > > > > Many other unequal house divisions other than the two above are > > utilized in western astrology. Interestingly, at higher latitudes, > > where some of the signs may not rise at all in certain times of the > > years, you can get intercepted signs (3 signs in one house, one of > > which does not show up as the midpoint at all). > > > > Of these Krishnamurthi (KP) utilized Placidus system and also > > followed the western/tropical convention of using the rising degree > as > > the beginning of the house rather than the middle of the house as > > other jyotishis use. KP subs are, therefore, based on Placidius > cusps. > > I don't know if they (KP subs) have been researched with more > > conventional (in Jyotish) house systems. > > > > There are also systems like the zenith system, east point system, > > regiomontanus, morinus and many other house division systems, some > of > > which have been tested by jyotishis. Most turn back to whole sign > or > > equal house system after a bit of experimentation. > > > > All of these others are mathematically more precise from a > geocentric > > point of view, but whether they really work in practice is another > > story. If mathematical precision was the driver, I would use really > > precise systems rather than ones based on averaging such as > porphyrii > > or placidus, obviously. > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "basu_email" > > <basu_email> wrote: > > > DEAR ALL, > > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house > (LAGNA > > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I > am > > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > > > prediction. > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > Anirban Basu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Dear Tanvir , Let us not get into either or kind of discussions. All systems work . If any of the system did not work , it would not survive. What about ayanamshas , where the difference is in totallity is mere 3 degrees , systems with 23 degrees difference also give good predictions . Some of the reasons being that many of the underlying assumptions remain the same. Lagna / ascendant degree represents the most important point for the native .. Does not matter which house system , the relative angles made to the lagna remain the same . The relative angles made by planets with each other also remain the same. Any happening cannot be ascribed to one planet or one house alone . For example work - 10 th house , 10 th house lord , Saturn , Sun , Jupiter , 10 from 10 th , its lord , 5 th lord , 5 th house etc So the systems are inherently stable . So far as KP is concerned . This is a relatively new system and variables are quite limited. One ayanamsha , one house system , and small body of rules and regulations , one chart . The beauty of the system is that it can be general and particular at the same time. Regards , Anand - Tanvir Chowdhury <lord_narayana <> Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:09 AM Re: A basic question > Do not know about other house systems, but I have thought about the > +/- 15 degree house system and saw that it can not be true. And I do > not think that the system which starts a house from the Lagna degree > is not true either, because my own lagna is in 15 degree, then all > the planets would change the houses than in what they are in the > whole sign whole house systems. But in practice this whole sign gives > good results. > > I wonder how KP gives such good predictions being *armed* with such > *machineguns* of different ayanamsa and different house systems? May > be Rohini Ji can explain it better ("Reloading > machineguns" !???!!) ... LOL !!! > > Tanvir. > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > and the so called bhava (house-division) charts are not standard > > either, even in jyotish. People use the following: > > > > Whole sign house, simplest, here the bhava chart is the same as > > rashi(sign) chart. If aries is rising, then any planet in taurus is > in > > the 2nd house and so on. > > > > Equal House division: Utilizing the 30 degree area around the > rising > > degree (+/- 15 on each side of the degree) one defines the houses, > so > > depending on the rising degree, a house may contain portions of two > > signs. > > > > and the unequal house divisions: > > > > Sripati: Commonly used for shadbala and bhava bala and aspects. The > > ascendant degree and medium coeli (zenith) is used to derive the > rest > > of the houses by trisecting the arc between rising and MC and > applying > > that to the other houses. Same as Porphyrii system of western > > astrology. > > > > Alcabitus: Same logic as above but works with time of rising of MC > > (trisects the arc in units of time, rather than degrees) > > > > Many other unequal house divisions other than the two above are > > utilized in western astrology. Interestingly, at higher latitudes, > > where some of the signs may not rise at all in certain times of the > > years, you can get intercepted signs (3 signs in one house, one of > > which does not show up as the midpoint at all). > > > > Of these Krishnamurthi (KP) utilized Placidus system and also > > followed the western/tropical convention of using the rising degree > as > > the beginning of the house rather than the middle of the house as > > other jyotishis use. KP subs are, therefore, based on Placidius > cusps. > > I don't know if they (KP subs) have been researched with more > > conventional (in Jyotish) house systems. > > > > There are also systems like the zenith system, east point system, > > regiomontanus, morinus and many other house division systems, some > of > > which have been tested by jyotishis. Most turn back to whole sign > or > > equal house system after a bit of experimentation. > > > > All of these others are mathematically more precise from a > geocentric > > point of view, but whether they really work in practice is another > > story. If mathematical precision was the driver, I would use really > > precise systems rather than ones based on averaging such as > porphyrii > > or placidus, obviously. > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "basu_email" > > <basu_email> wrote: > > > DEAR ALL, > > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house > (LAGNA > > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I > am > > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > > > prediction. > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > Anirban Basu > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Dear Anirban , Please put up both the charts for discussion . You can use both charts for prediction . These are complimentary and not competitive. Even in KP where Bhavacalit is only used , to take cognisance of Drishti , the basic horoscope is used . Now three planets going from 10 th house to 9 th house. In regular horoscope , this will mean your work will be concerned with the work signified by these planets , in the background suggested by the tenth house rashi . If all three are going into the 9 th house , are you following in something that was inherited or skills taught in house ? This will be the additional parameter you can use . Regards , Anand > , "basu_email" > <basu_email> wrote: > > DEAR ALL, > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house (LAGNA > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I am > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > > prediction. > > > > Please clarify. > > > > With Regards, > > > > Anirban Basu > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 More interestingly (look Tanvir, no guns!) how does jyotish framework works so well with different ayanamshas etc. in different hands! No one is perfect, but well enough amount of success results to let people use the parameters of their choice. Regardign KP specifically, I think Inder ji is the person to respond and maybe there are others who use KP but do not participate in conversations. RR , "Tanvir Chowdhury" <lord_narayana@l...> wrote: > Do not know about other house systems, but I have thought about the > +/- 15 degree house system and saw that it can not be true. And I do > not think that the system which starts a house from the Lagna degree > is not true either, because my own lagna is in 15 degree, then all > the planets would change the houses than in what they are in the > whole sign whole house systems. But in practice this whole sign gives > good results. > > I wonder how KP gives such good predictions being *armed* with such > *machineguns* of different ayanamsa and different house systems? May > be Rohini Ji can explain it better ("Reloading > machineguns" !???!!) ... LOL !!! > > Tanvir. > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > and the so called bhava (house-division) charts are not standard > > either, even in jyotish. People use the following: > > > > Whole sign house, simplest, here the bhava chart is the same as > > rashi(sign) chart. If aries is rising, then any planet in taurus is > in > > the 2nd house and so on. > > > > Equal House division: Utilizing the 30 degree area around the > rising > > degree (+/- 15 on each side of the degree) one defines the houses, > so > > depending on the rising degree, a house may contain portions of two > > signs. > > > > and the unequal house divisions: > > > > Sripati: Commonly used for shadbala and bhava bala and aspects. The > > ascendant degree and medium coeli (zenith) is used to derive the > rest > > of the houses by trisecting the arc between rising and MC and > applying > > that to the other houses. Same as Porphyrii system of western > > astrology. > > > > Alcabitus: Same logic as above but works with time of rising of MC > > (trisects the arc in units of time, rather than degrees) > > > > Many other unequal house divisions other than the two above are > > utilized in western astrology. Interestingly, at higher latitudes, > > where some of the signs may not rise at all in certain times of the > > years, you can get intercepted signs (3 signs in one house, one of > > which does not show up as the midpoint at all). > > > > Of these Krishnamurthi (KP) utilized Placidus system and also > > followed the western/tropical convention of using the rising degree > as > > the beginning of the house rather than the middle of the house as > > other jyotishis use. KP subs are, therefore, based on Placidius > cusps. > > I don't know if they (KP subs) have been researched with more > > conventional (in Jyotish) house systems. > > > > There are also systems like the zenith system, east point system, > > regiomontanus, morinus and many other house division systems, some > of > > which have been tested by jyotishis. Most turn back to whole sign > or > > equal house system after a bit of experimentation. > > > > All of these others are mathematically more precise from a > geocentric > > point of view, but whether they really work in practice is another > > story. If mathematical precision was the driver, I would use really > > precise systems rather than ones based on averaging such as > porphyrii > > or placidus, obviously. > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "basu_email" > > <basu_email> wrote: > > > DEAR ALL, > > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house > (LAGNA > > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I > am > > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > > > prediction. > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > Anirban Basu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Simply wondering if someone has actually tested and documented applications of KP system using houses other than Placidus. KP is different from mainstream jyotish in using Placidus houses and cusp to cusp houses, like the tropical norm in those days (Raphael ephemeris and table of houses ruled the astrological universe when Krishnamurthi was testing and writing about his system. RR , "Inder" <indervohra2001> wrote: > Dear friends, > I could not follow what Sh RR meant when he says: > I do not know if KP Subs have been researched with more conventional > house system. > In KP we use Placidus system and take a bhava from cusp to cusp. > A Sub is subdivisions of a Nakshtra as per Vimshottari dasa system > division of time. > With this basic principles of Hindu astrology and Vimshottari dasa > system is followed. > In the results of transits also planets' position in a house,or star > and sub is to seen for making any judgement. > Inder > > , "Tanvir Chowdhury" > <lord_narayana@l...> wrote: > > Do not know about other house systems, but I have thought about > the > > +/- 15 degree house system and saw that it can not be true. And I > do > > not think that the system which starts a house from the Lagna > degree > > is not true either, because my own lagna is in 15 degree, then all > > the planets would change the houses than in what they are in the > > whole sign whole house systems. But in practice this whole sign > gives > > good results. > > > > I wonder how KP gives such good predictions being *armed* with > such > > *machineguns* of different ayanamsa and different house systems? > May > > be Rohini Ji can explain it better ("Reloading > > machineguns" !???!!) ... LOL !!! > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > and the so called bhava (house-division) charts are not standard > > > either, even in jyotish. People use the following: > > > > > > Whole sign house, simplest, here the bhava chart is the same as > > > rashi(sign) chart. If aries is rising, then any planet in taurus > is > > in > > > the 2nd house and so on. > > > > > > Equal House division: Utilizing the 30 degree area around the > > rising > > > degree (+/- 15 on each side of the degree) one defines the > houses, > > so > > > depending on the rising degree, a house may contain portions of > two > > > signs. > > > > > > and the unequal house divisions: > > > > > > Sripati: Commonly used for shadbala and bhava bala and aspects. > The > > > ascendant degree and medium coeli (zenith) is used to derive the > > rest > > > of the houses by trisecting the arc between rising and MC and > > applying > > > that to the other houses. Same as Porphyrii system of western > > > astrology. > > > > > > Alcabitus: Same logic as above but works with time of rising of > MC > > > (trisects the arc in units of time, rather than degrees) > > > > > > Many other unequal house divisions other than the two above are > > > utilized in western astrology. Interestingly, at higher > latitudes, > > > where some of the signs may not rise at all in certain times of > the > > > years, you can get intercepted signs (3 signs in one house, one > of > > > which does not show up as the midpoint at all). > > > > > > Of these Krishnamurthi (KP) utilized Placidus system and also > > > followed the western/tropical convention of using the rising > degree > > as > > > the beginning of the house rather than the middle of the house > as > > > other jyotishis use. KP subs are, therefore, based on Placidius > > cusps. > > > I don't know if they (KP subs) have been researched with more > > > conventional (in Jyotish) house systems. > > > > > > There are also systems like the zenith system, east point > system, > > > regiomontanus, morinus and many other house division systems, > some > > of > > > which have been tested by jyotishis. Most turn back to whole > sign > > or > > > equal house system after a bit of experimentation. > > > > > > All of these others are mathematically more precise from a > > geocentric > > > point of view, but whether they really work in practice is > another > > > story. If mathematical precision was the driver, I would use > really > > > precise systems rather than ones based on averaging such as > > porphyrii > > > or placidus, obviously. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "basu_email" > > > <basu_email> wrote: > > > > DEAR ALL, > > > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house > > (LAGNA > > > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which > one I > > am > > > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for > accurate > > > > prediction. > > > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > > > Anirban Basu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Dear Anand ji, You have mentioned a very valid point that even with tropical zodiac, the relative angles amongst planets remain the same. But actually it is the "crutch" behind this lame tropical zodiac making it work to a little extent. You have said correctly that the relative angles amongst planets are the same. But do not you think that the angles between planets and signs are also very important? For tropical zodiac most planets would change the house in general and a planet of normal strength might move to an exaltation sign or even to a fallen sign. This is the fact. Then do you want to say that a planet in friendly sign would render the same effect what it would do in the fallen sign? If tropical and sidereal both zodiacs work same time, it must imply so. Then it actually implies that the exaltation signs, friendly signs, debilitation signs, have no values or significations. All systems DO NOT work. My Mars would move from Capricorn to Aquarius and from 5th house to 6th house for tropical zodiac. Then it would mean Capricorn=Aquarius and 5th house=6th house, all are impossible, basically showing all the 12 houses ruling same significations and all the 12 signs being same for all the planets. Today we see many famous Vedic Astrologers once used to practice western and once they came to explore Jyotish, they never got back to western. But I know no such famous (?) Western astrologer who left Jyotish for he found western. Can you tell me why James Braha achieved so much name and fame when he introduced Jyotish to west? When you admit that system with 23 degree difference good predictions, do you personally use them? Try putting your Moon 23 degree away than sidereal position, then try Vimsottari from it and see the results. Most probably we would have to define Vimsottari as a seriously wrong Dasha system then. One who notes his life carefully can correct his birthtime most of the times just by watching his life in respect to Vimsottari. If I am right then late grandfather of Sanjay Rath Ji used to judge 5th level of Vimsottari, and make everyday predictions, and here Neeraj Bhai is trying to do something similar ie noting daily life events and then correcting birth time. By noting everyday events you can judge the results up to the 5th level of Vimsottari, and here is the need for a very accurate ayanamsha. Most of the software are trying to make their computation more and more correct and giving accuray within a min, then it is surprising to see you talking about 23 degree differences. You know what. I can sense the changes in my life in respect to Pratyantar Dasha [PD] changes. Based on my observations of Vimsottari VS life events I rectified my birth time from 12.30 to 12.33. And it matches to rest of the things too. Last year in one evening suddenly I realized that I am feeling different mentally, and somehow the environment around me 'smells' different. I run my astro software and found that the birth time I already rectified, gives me a PD change right before 1 day of that day! I already corrected the birth time and the corrected birth time proved true once more. I just ended a malefic saturn PD (6th lord) and entered my Asc lord PD so I could feel it clearly within a day it happened. All the things survive are not true. A large number of people makes the belief survive that astrology is a mere superstition. I have no problem with western TECHNIQUES. They can be used beside Jyotish but not independatly, then they are never enough or are any match to Jyotish. I have seen that the exact opposition of planets have a strong impact, and I wrote about it in some lists before this list was created. That is because I am free from any prejudice. KP is also great. If you find any comments from me about KP in any of my posts then you will see I praised it. I visited India for 1 day only to buy Jyotish books, and I bought only selected books on pure Jyotish, but I made no selection about KP books, I bought whatever KP books I got in my way. I also talked in the list that I have a plan about learning KP. I have came accross some very accurate timings with KP in practical experience. But I wonder how KP does that with that ayanamsha and house system. Note that they use different rules that might balance it somewhere. May be KP structure works for a specific sort of positions and does not work for another structure - I really do not before I explore it deeply. There must be an answer to this. However I personally have some serious allergies to that called SA. The system does not even deserve trying and only listening about it is enough. Moreover they have insulted pure jyotish manytimes with many disrespectful comments. There had been some serious discussions revealing real of it, in Vedic-Astrology list, and I knew all of it even before the discussion. Even in SATVA list there had been serious complaints about the effiacy of the expensive $ 300 kavaches, some users who bought it and some other astrologers who supplied it to their clients. clearly abuses even starting from B V Raman to whole vedic astrology telling, "With traditional astrology people spend life and do not learn anything..." (I quoted) One lady I do not remember her name rightfully said something like, "They (SA Guys) want to prove that it is only Choudhry who knows astrology and all our ancient sages were completely stupids wasting all their time and energy in to useless endless complicacy." They call to be a "modern sage"... LOL Some western theories are welcome to JR as long as they do not contradict Jyotish. KP would be even more welcome. But a school that states that 23 degree difference is valid would not be welcome. Because this tropical magic would seriously mislead any student rather than teaching him something. I would not let JR confuse people with basic doubts that are already proved, just as I would not welcome people here who do not even believe astrology, then engage in a useless war to prove the existance of astrology. Let them believe that pleases them. So if anyone here tries to prove tropical zodiac true, then first he would have to encounter me then something else. My responsibility as the list administrator as well as the list servant would be to put a serious effort that aims stop all these and I would be more than willing to engage all of my little might in to this. Respectfully, Tanvir. PS. To make a mistake is never a beauty. An error is never beautiful. , "Anand" <shivaji@c...> wrote: > Dear Tanvir , > > Let us not get into either or kind of discussions. All systems work . If any > of the system did not work , it would not survive. What about ayanamshas , > where the difference is in totallity is mere 3 degrees , systems with 23 > degrees difference also give good predictions . Some of the reasons being > that many of the underlying assumptions remain the same. > > Lagna / ascendant degree represents the most important point for the native > . > > Does not matter which house system , the relative angles made to the lagna > remain the same . > > The relative angles made by planets with each other also remain the same. > > Any happening cannot be ascribed to one planet or one house alone . For > example work - 10 th house , 10 th house lord , Saturn , Sun , Jupiter , > 10 from 10 th , its lord , 5 th lord , 5 th house etc So the systems are > inherently stable . > > So far as KP is concerned . This is a relatively new system and variables > are quite limited. One ayanamsha , one house system , and small body of > rules and regulations , one chart . The beauty of the system is that it can > be general and particular at the same time. > > Regards , > > Anand > > - > Tanvir Chowdhury <lord_narayana@l...> > <> > Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:09 AM > Re: A basic question > > > > Do not know about other house systems, but I have thought about the > > +/- 15 degree house system and saw that it can not be true. And I do > > not think that the system which starts a house from the Lagna degree > > is not true either, because my own lagna is in 15 degree, then all > > the planets would change the houses than in what they are in the > > whole sign whole house systems. But in practice this whole sign gives > > good results. > > > > I wonder how KP gives such good predictions being *armed* with such > > *machineguns* of different ayanamsa and different house systems? May > > be Rohini Ji can explain it better ("Reloading > > machineguns" !???!!) ... LOL !!! > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > and the so called bhava (house-division) charts are not standard > > > either, even in jyotish. People use the following: > > > > > > Whole sign house, simplest, here the bhava chart is the same as > > > rashi(sign) chart. If aries is rising, then any planet in taurus is > > in > > > the 2nd house and so on. > > > > > > Equal House division: Utilizing the 30 degree area around the > > rising > > > degree (+/- 15 on each side of the degree) one defines the houses, > > so > > > depending on the rising degree, a house may contain portions of two > > > signs. > > > > > > and the unequal house divisions: > > > > > > Sripati: Commonly used for shadbala and bhava bala and aspects. The > > > ascendant degree and medium coeli (zenith) is used to derive the > > rest > > > of the houses by trisecting the arc between rising and MC and > > applying > > > that to the other houses. Same as Porphyrii system of western > > > astrology. > > > > > > Alcabitus: Same logic as above but works with time of rising of MC > > > (trisects the arc in units of time, rather than degrees) > > > > > > Many other unequal house divisions other than the two above are > > > utilized in western astrology. Interestingly, at higher latitudes, > > > where some of the signs may not rise at all in certain times of the > > > years, you can get intercepted signs (3 signs in one house, one of > > > which does not show up as the midpoint at all). > > > > > > Of these Krishnamurthi (KP) utilized Placidus system and also > > > followed the western/tropical convention of using the rising degree > > as > > > the beginning of the house rather than the middle of the house as > > > other jyotishis use. KP subs are, therefore, based on Placidius > > cusps. > > > I don't know if they (KP subs) have been researched with more > > > conventional (in Jyotish) house systems. > > > > > > There are also systems like the zenith system, east point system, > > > regiomontanus, morinus and many other house division systems, some > > of > > > which have been tested by jyotishis. Most turn back to whole sign > > or > > > equal house system after a bit of experimentation. > > > > > > All of these others are mathematically more precise from a > > geocentric > > > point of view, but whether they really work in practice is another > > > story. If mathematical precision was the driver, I would use really > > > precise systems rather than ones based on averaging such as > > porphyrii > > > or placidus, obviously. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "basu_email" > > > <basu_email> wrote: > > > > DEAR ALL, > > > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house > > (LAGNA > > > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I > > am > > > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > > > > prediction. > > > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > > > Anirban Basu > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Dear all, A lot of information on the use of Bhava + Rashi chart has been posted in the last few days and it has been really interesting and informative as well. Mr Anand has requested me to put up my bhava and rashi chart for some further analysis.I have uploaded the following files by the name anirban_jhd.jhd and anirban_basu.html files in the file storage section. And thanks again . Regards, Anirban Basu , "Anand" <shivaji@c...> wrote: > > Dear Anirban , > > Please put up both the charts for discussion . > > You can use both charts for prediction . These are complimentary and not > competitive. Even in KP where Bhavacalit is only used , to take cognisance > of Drishti , the basic horoscope is used . > > Now three planets going from 10 th house to 9 th house. In regular horoscope > , this will mean your work will be concerned with the work signified by > these planets , in the background suggested by the tenth house rashi . If > all three are going into the 9 th house , are you following in something > that was inherited or skills taught in house ? This will be the additional > parameter you can use . > > Regards , > > > Anand > > > , "basu_email" > > <basu_email> wrote: > > > DEAR ALL, > > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house (LAGNA > > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one I am > > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for accurate > > > prediction. > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > Anirban Basu > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > Links > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 for those who need to get their hands dirty, should you not post your birthdata too, so that it is readily available? RR , "basu_email" <basu_email> wrote: > Dear all, > > A lot of information on the use of Bhava + Rashi chart has been > posted in the last few days and it has been really interesting and > informative as well. > Mr Anand has requested me to put up my bhava and rashi chart > for some further analysis.I have uploaded the following files by the > name > anirban_jhd.jhd > and anirban_basu.html > files in the file storage section. > > And thanks again . > > Regards, > > Anirban Basu > , "Anand" <shivaji@c...> wrote: > > > > Dear Anirban , > > > > Please put up both the charts for discussion . > > > > You can use both charts for prediction . These are complimentary > and not > > competitive. Even in KP where Bhavacalit is only used , to take > cognisance > > of Drishti , the basic horoscope is used . > > > > Now three planets going from 10 th house to 9 th house. In regular > horoscope > > , this will mean your work will be concerned with the work > signified by > > these planets , in the background suggested by the tenth house > rashi . If > > all three are going into the 9 th house , are you following in > something > > that was inherited or skills taught in house ? This will be the > additional > > parameter you can use . > > > > Regards , > > > > > > Anand > > > > > , "basu_email" > > > <basu_email> wrote: > > > > DEAR ALL, > > > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house > (LAGNA > > > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which one > I am > > > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for > accurate > > > > prediction. > > > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > > > Anirban Basu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Hi, The birth data is as follows 3rd Feb,1980 Time : 2:44 A.M Kolkata : Long- 88 deg , 24 min Lat--22 deg, 34 min Sorry for not posting it early . Anirban Basu , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > for those who need to get their hands dirty, should you not post > your birthdata too, so that it is readily available? > > RR > > , "basu_email" > <basu_email> wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > A lot of information on the use of Bhava + Rashi chart has > been > > posted in the last few days and it has been really interesting and > > informative as well. > > Mr Anand has requested me to put up my bhava and rashi > chart > > for some further analysis.I have uploaded the following files by > the > > name > > anirban_jhd.jhd > > and anirban_basu.html > > files in the file storage section. > > > > And thanks again . > > > > Regards, > > > > Anirban Basu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Anand" <shivaji@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Anirban , > > > > > > Please put up both the charts for discussion . > > > > > > You can use both charts for prediction . These are complimentary > > and not > > > competitive. Even in KP where Bhavacalit is only used , to take > > cognisance > > > of Drishti , the basic horoscope is used . > > > > > > Now three planets going from 10 th house to 9 th house. In > regular > > horoscope > > > , this will mean your work will be concerned with the work > > signified by > > > these planets , in the background suggested by the tenth house > > rashi . If > > > all three are going into the 9 th house , are you following in > > something > > > that was inherited or skills taught in house ? This will be the > > additional > > > parameter you can use . > > > > > > Regards , > > > > > > > > > Anand > > > > > > > , "basu_email" > > > > <basu_email> wrote: > > > > > DEAR ALL, > > > > > The Lagna chart and the Niryana Bhava Chalit produces two > > > > > different chart.Like in my case three planets in 1OTH house > > (LAGNA > > > > > chart) shifts to 9TH house in bhava chalit chart.Now which > one > > I am > > > > > going to give more stress - the bhava or lagna chart for > > accurate > > > > > prediction. > > > > > > > > > > Please clarify. > > > > > > > > > > With Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Anirban Basu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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