Divisionals & Rashi - Views on Tanvir's Article.

[Guest guest]

Dear Tanvir Bhai

 

The role you are playing is really imitatable.I have seen your

updated site.Congrats.

It was wonderful to read your article on Divisionals.I agree on some

points and tend to disagree on some.I hope you would allow me to go

ahead with a healthy debate on this subject.Remember i am a student

and hence my views are of academic level.

 

Tanvirs opinion

''Now, I was born on 24th Dec 1982, 12.30 AM, Dhaka. In the

same 'Specific two hours' that night, at least 3X120=360 babies were

born who have all the same Rashi Charts like me. Now, whatever result

I take out of my Rashi Chart, should be applied to them also!! ''

 

My opinion - Parashara has said ,certain combinations for a child

born in a royal family -will make him a king while the same

combination for one from an ordinary family will make him equal to

king or endowed with similar luxuries.The degree of luxury will

diminish proportionally with the family status.

 

What does this mean - Individuals with the same chart will not have

similar results and events, but proportionally similar.Thus if

atleast some of the individuals who were born at the same time as

you,take interest in Khuran or spirituality ,it would be

sufficient.We dont know the spiritual level of your parents or grand

parents.Even though this may not be present in a manifested or

tangible form ,this can be present in them in a latent or

unquantifiable measure.

 

Now regarding usage of divisionals.In my opinion, Divisional

placements do represent original planetary positions.If a planet is

in Aries in Rashi and Gemini in Navamsha,it is in the ''gemini

element'' within Aries 'Rashi' when divided by 9.Now why a certain

division within a Rashi has gemini nature or virgo nature has to be

understood seperately.Parashara has given defintions on arriving at

individual elements within a Rashi.

 

Also when the divisions are broad (say 2-Hora, 4-Chathuramsha, 10-

Dashamsha) the indications are more related to physical plane.Like

wealth,Vehicles,Profession etc.

The more we go up the influence is high and at a finer level.Eg if

the lord of a bhava is in malefic shashtyamsha ,the results

diminish.Why is this? When we divide a Rashi into 60 - The influence

of the surrounding environment (amsha) is very high on the planet.Or

in other words we are observing the close influences on the

planet.While in Rashi, we are just viewing this from a broader level.

 

Now in my view, Parashara has never mentioned any usage of

divisionals as a chart in full or as houses.He has only advised us

in ascertaining the strengths of planets in various amshas.Also to

see karaka grahas or bhavas positions in the corresponding amsha.For

eg ,if we want to consider Hora, we have to first see dhana yogas and

arishta yogas from rashi after ascertaining health and longevity.Now

this has to be confirmed from the relevant divisionals.For that we

have to see if Sun ,Mars and Jupiter are in the hora of Sun or

not.Similarly Moon ,Venus and Saturn are strong in the Hora of

Moon.Here if we consider Hora as a full chart what is the use? We

will end up saying some planets are in the 12th and some are in the

second.Thus the other houses are useless in this case?Because always

in Hora all the planets can fall only in the Hora of either Sun or

Moon.Also the Dhana/Raja yoga forming planets amshas can be observed

in various divisionals.If they are good,then you can confirm the

results.Again good is relative - Parashara refers to own

sign,exaltation,kendra lords from AL,Non combust etc when he comments

on what is a good amsha.All these references are w.r to the positions

in Rashi.

 

Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body or

Tanu.See the position of Lagna & its lord in various divisions to

confirm health.Especially D-6.

 

Thus I believe the interpretation of the usage of divisionals is not

proper.Many eminent astrologers are considering divisionals as full

charts and using aspects ,etc there.For me this is neither

astrologically nor astronomically ,logical.We are assuming things

which Parashara never had in mind.

 

I would be happy to hear views regarding this from you and other

members of the group.

 

Kind regds & Thanks

Pradeep

 

 

 

 

 

, "Tanvir Chowdhury"

<lord_narayana@l...> wrote:

> Dear all,

>

> My new site is on now -

>

> http://www.jyotish-remedies.com

>

> Best wishes,

> Tanvir.

>

> PS. Comments, questions, suggestions are welcome. Please do tell me

> if there are any missing files, broken links etc. Also if you think

> that the network performance / hosting performance is slow or

somehow

> problematic, please inform me. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeep Ji,

 

Thanks for your kind comments. I was very busy last days and so could

not reply. I would reply your post with my views soon.

 

Best wishes,

Tanvir.

 

, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> Dear Tanvir Bhai

>

> The role you are playing is really imitatable.I have seen your

> updated site.Congrats.

> It was wonderful to read your article on Divisionals.I agree on

some

> points and tend to disagree on some.I hope you would allow me to go

> ahead with a healthy debate on this subject.Remember i am a student

> and hence my views are of academic level.

>

> Tanvirs opinion

> ''Now, I was born on 24th Dec 1982, 12.30 AM, Dhaka. In the

> same 'Specific two hours' that night, at least 3X120=360 babies

were

> born who have all the same Rashi Charts like me. Now, whatever

result

> I take out of my Rashi Chart, should be applied to them also!! ''

>

> My opinion - Parashara has said ,certain combinations for a child

> born in a royal family -will make him a king while the same

> combination for one from an ordinary family will make him equal to

> king or endowed with similar luxuries.The degree of luxury will

> diminish proportionally with the family status.

>

> What does this mean - Individuals with the same chart will not have

> similar results and events, but proportionally similar.Thus if

> atleast some of the individuals who were born at the same time as

> you,take interest in Khuran or spirituality ,it would be

> sufficient.We dont know the spiritual level of your parents or

grand

> parents.Even though this may not be present in a manifested or

> tangible form ,this can be present in them in a latent or

> unquantifiable measure.

>

> Now regarding usage of divisionals.In my opinion, Divisional

> placements do represent original planetary positions.If a planet is

> in Aries in Rashi and Gemini in Navamsha,it is in the ''gemini

> element'' within Aries 'Rashi' when divided by 9.Now why a certain

> division within a Rashi has gemini nature or virgo nature has to be

> understood seperately.Parashara has given defintions on arriving at

> individual elements within a Rashi.

>

> Also when the divisions are broad (say 2-Hora, 4-Chathuramsha, 10-

> Dashamsha) the indications are more related to physical plane.Like

> wealth,Vehicles,Profession etc.

> The more we go up the influence is high and at a finer level.Eg if

> the lord of a bhava is in malefic shashtyamsha ,the results

> diminish.Why is this? When we divide a Rashi into 60 - The

influence

> of the surrounding environment (amsha) is very high on the

planet.Or

> in other words we are observing the close influences on the

> planet.While in Rashi, we are just viewing this from a broader

level.

>

> Now in my view, Parashara has never mentioned any usage of

> divisionals as a chart in full or as houses.He has only advised us

> in ascertaining the strengths of planets in various amshas.Also to

> see karaka grahas or bhavas positions in the corresponding

amsha.For

> eg ,if we want to consider Hora, we have to first see dhana yogas

and

> arishta yogas from rashi after ascertaining health and

longevity.Now

> this has to be confirmed from the relevant divisionals.For that we

> have to see if Sun ,Mars and Jupiter are in the hora of Sun or

> not.Similarly Moon ,Venus and Saturn are strong in the Hora of

> Moon.Here if we consider Hora as a full chart what is the use? We

> will end up saying some planets are in the 12th and some are in the

> second.Thus the other houses are useless in this case?Because

always

> in Hora all the planets can fall only in the Hora of either Sun or

> Moon.Also the Dhana/Raja yoga forming planets amshas can be

observed

> in various divisionals.If they are good,then you can confirm the

> results.Again good is relative - Parashara refers to own

> sign,exaltation,kendra lords from AL,Non combust etc when he

comments

> on what is a good amsha.All these references are w.r to the

positions

> in Rashi.

>

> Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body or

> Tanu.See the position of Lagna & its lord in various divisions to

> confirm health.Especially D-6.

>

> Thus I believe the interpretation of the usage of divisionals is

not

> proper.Many eminent astrologers are considering divisionals as full

> charts and using aspects ,etc there.For me this is neither

> astrologically nor astronomically ,logical.We are assuming things

> which Parashara never had in mind.

>

> I would be happy to hear views regarding this from you and other

> members of the group.

>

> Kind regds & Thanks

> Pradeep

>

>

>

>

>

> @

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeep Ji, here are my replies -

 

>>>> My opinion - Parashara has said ,certain combinations for a child

born in a royal family -will make him a king while the same

combination for one from an ordinary family will make him equal to

king or endowed with similar luxuries.The degree of luxury will

diminish proportionally with the family status.

 

A) I humbly choose to disagree. (To what you said, not to BPHS.) A

chart would be the all same.

 

If the family status etc. was this important, then the same position

could indicate a lot varying

 

results then it would not be possible to 'generalize' the astrology

theories with exaltation,

 

debilitation etc.

 

B) Also I would say that the family background itself is embedded in

the chart itself (Matter of

 

if one can read it or not) and that is why seeing the chart it is

possible to tell about parents,

 

their nature, family status etc. etc. So, there are always making

some difference in the position

 

itself.

 

Let me tell you something very definite. Suppose, a prince has his 9L

and 10L joined. A beggar

 

boy has his 9L and 10L joined too. And in this case you will be

correct that the effects will

 

vary. But did you think why? Because though the 9L and 10L

combination is same, but all other

 

facts of the chart are NOT same, and of course, the prince really

does have some other great

 

positional advantages the poor boy does not have. The prince might

have his Sun well placed, Asc

 

lord well placed etc etc, that the poor boy does not have. So

apparently, the 9L and 10L joining

 

are giving different results but actually it is the difference of

other planetary positions that

 

is causing the differences.

 

When some relative or friend give me his data and tell me to see, I

first answer, "I see it as I

 

see you." Means, the chart always shows the social status, studies,

credits, etc etc of the

 

native. So when we are comparing the charts of a beggar boy VS a

prince, it means there are only

 

some differences between the charts that is why one is born in royal

family and another in a

 

slum. So some advantages are already given.

 

Remember Parasara said about certain combination, but did he talk

about 'The same chart'? I do

 

not think so. But in my example of D charts, it was about the same

(Rashi chart). So when

 

Parasara is talking about a 'same combination', it means only a part

of the chart, and of course

 

this part or combination would be modified and pushed down / pushed

up by other factors which

 

differ in a chart of prince and a poor boy. To summarize, the 9L and

10L combination is always

 

supported or obstructed by the other factors and for THIS DIFFERENCE

of 'other factors' one is in

 

the palace and another is in the slum so the effect is always there.

However my example was about

 

the same rashi chart [With only the Asc position varying.]

 

Even if we take it true, then it can not be true that all the 200

kids born had no parents more

 

spiritual etc. than mine, it could be true if my parents were

exceptionally spiritual that none

 

of those other clone kids parents could bit it... you get the idea :-)

 

 

>>>>> Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body or

Tanu.

 

The whole Rashi chart would show the body as well as the native's

nature etc. A very afflicted

 

2nd lord would make lose eyesight, an afflicted 5th lord would cause

problem with stomuch, 8th

 

house chronic diseases and so on. So only lagna is not the body. The

whole rashi chart is a

 

'plane' or 'picture' and any house can tell about the body, nature

and other things. And we read

 

it in respect to lagna i.e. taking the lagna as the first house.

 

As you said I would say the same, ie I am also a student and perhaps

more layman than you so

 

consider my humble views accordingly :-)

 

Best wishes,

Tanvir.

 

 

, "Tanvir Chowdhury"

<lord_narayana@l...> wrote:

> Dear Pradeep Ji,

>

> Thanks for your kind comments. I was very busy last days and so

could

> not reply. I would reply your post with my views soon.

>

> Best wishes,

> Tanvir.

>

> , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > Dear Tanvir Bhai

> >

> > The role you are playing is really imitatable.I have seen your

> > updated site.Congrats.

> > It was wonderful to read your article on Divisionals.I agree on

> some

> > points and tend to disagree on some.I hope you would allow me to

go

> > ahead with a healthy debate on this subject.Remember i am a

student

> > and hence my views are of academic level.

> >

> > Tanvirs opinion

> > ''Now, I was born on 24th Dec 1982, 12.30 AM, Dhaka. In the

> > same 'Specific two hours' that night, at least 3X120=360 babies

> were

> > born who have all the same Rashi Charts like me. Now, whatever

> result

> > I take out of my Rashi Chart, should be applied to them also!! ''

> >

> > My opinion - Parashara has said ,certain combinations for a

child

> > born in a royal family -will make him a king while the same

> > combination for one from an ordinary family will make him equal

to

> > king or endowed with similar luxuries.The degree of luxury will

> > diminish proportionally with the family status.

> >

> > What does this mean - Individuals with the same chart will not

have

> > similar results and events, but proportionally similar.Thus if

> > atleast some of the individuals who were born at the same time as

> > you,take interest in Khuran or spirituality ,it would be

> > sufficient.We dont know the spiritual level of your parents or

> grand

> > parents.Even though this may not be present in a manifested or

> > tangible form ,this can be present in them in a latent or

> > unquantifiable measure.

> >

> > Now regarding usage of divisionals.In my opinion, Divisional

> > placements do represent original planetary positions.If a planet

is

> > in Aries in Rashi and Gemini in Navamsha,it is in the ''gemini

> > element'' within Aries 'Rashi' when divided by 9.Now why a

certain

> > division within a Rashi has gemini nature or virgo nature has to

be

> > understood seperately.Parashara has given defintions on arriving

at

> > individual elements within a Rashi.

> >

> > Also when the divisions are broad (say 2-Hora, 4-Chathuramsha, 10-

> > Dashamsha) the indications are more related to physical

plane.Like

> > wealth,Vehicles,Profession etc.

> > The more we go up the influence is high and at a finer level.Eg

if

> > the lord of a bhava is in malefic shashtyamsha ,the results

> > diminish.Why is this? When we divide a Rashi into 60 - The

> influence

> > of the surrounding environment (amsha) is very high on the

> planet.Or

> > in other words we are observing the close influences on the

> > planet.While in Rashi, we are just viewing this from a broader

> level.

> >

> > Now in my view, Parashara has never mentioned any usage of

> > divisionals as a chart in full or as houses.He has only advised

us

> > in ascertaining the strengths of planets in various amshas.Also

to

> > see karaka grahas or bhavas positions in the corresponding

> amsha.For

> > eg ,if we want to consider Hora, we have to first see dhana yogas

> and

> > arishta yogas from rashi after ascertaining health and

> longevity.Now

> > this has to be confirmed from the relevant divisionals.For that

we

> > have to see if Sun ,Mars and Jupiter are in the hora of Sun or

> > not.Similarly Moon ,Venus and Saturn are strong in the Hora of

> > Moon.Here if we consider Hora as a full chart what is the use? We

> > will end up saying some planets are in the 12th and some are in

the

> > second.Thus the other houses are useless in this case?Because

> always

> > in Hora all the planets can fall only in the Hora of either Sun

or

> > Moon.Also the Dhana/Raja yoga forming planets amshas can be

> observed

> > in various divisionals.If they are good,then you can confirm the

> > results.Again good is relative - Parashara refers to own

> > sign,exaltation,kendra lords from AL,Non combust etc when he

> comments

> > on what is a good amsha.All these references are w.r to the

> positions

> > in Rashi.

> >

> > Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body or

> > Tanu.See the position of Lagna & its lord in various divisions to

> > confirm health.Especially D-6.

> >

> > Thus I believe the interpretation of the usage of divisionals is

> not

> > proper.Many eminent astrologers are considering divisionals as

full

> > charts and using aspects ,etc there.For me this is neither

> > astrologically nor astronomically ,logical.We are assuming things

> > which Parashara never had in mind.

> >

> > I would be happy to hear views regarding this from you and other

> > members of the group.

> >

> > Kind regds & Thanks

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > @

[Guest guest]

Dear Tanveerji,

 

 

 

I don’t agree on certain points. When there is one birth every second in India,

there are bound to be thousands of births on the same day, in the same lagna and

hundreds of them may be in the same degree of lagna. Some of them may take birth

in millionaire families while many in the poorest of poor families, though they

may have the same configuration of planets in their birth charts. One of them

may become the President of India, though born in a middle class family while

some of them might be working as doctor, engineer or some high official or some

may become beggars for survival, though they have similar birth charts, similar

divisional charts and similar yogas.

 

 

 

According to KP the sub-lords of lagna and every other cusp decides the

individuality of the native, their family, their longevity, health. financial

prospects, education, profession, etc. These “subs” of the 12 cusps change with

the location of birth and decide the course of different aspects of life.

 

 

 

We do not take into account this “cusp” factor while judging the chart.

 

 

 

Our great seers have given us basic rules as guidelines for which we must be

indebted to them. However, they need not be complete or foolproof in themselves.

Always, there is scope for research and improvement. We should not be shy to

accept proven truths of astrology revealed by researchers like Prof.

Krishnamurti. He has given us some of the greatest tools to make reading of the

birth/horary chart more perfect and more useful.

 

 

 

Good luck

 

 

 

Hasmukhrai J Mehta.

 

 

Tanvir Chowdhury <lord_narayana wrote:Dear Pradeep Ji, here are my

replies -

 

>>>> My opinion - Parashara has said ,certain combinations for a child

born in a royal family -will make him a king while the same

combination for one from an ordinary family will make him equal to

king or endowed with similar luxuries.The degree of luxury will

diminish proportionally with the family status.

 

A) I humbly choose to disagree. (To what you said, not to BPHS.) A

chart would be the all same.

 

If the family status etc. was this important, then the same position

could indicate a lot varying

 

results then it would not be possible to 'generalize' the astrology

theories with exaltation,

 

debilitation etc.

 

B) Also I would say that the family background itself is embedded in

the chart itself (Matter of

 

if one can read it or not) and that is why seeing the chart it is

possible to tell about parents,

 

their nature, family status etc. etc. So, there are always making

some difference in the position

 

itself.

 

Let me tell you something very definite. Suppose, a prince has his 9L

and 10L joined. A beggar

 

boy has his 9L and 10L joined too. And in this case you will be

correct that the effects will

 

vary. But did you think why? Because though the 9L and 10L

combination is same, but all other

 

facts of the chart are NOT same, and of course, the prince really

does have some other great

 

positional advantages the poor boy does not have. The prince might

have his Sun well placed, Asc

 

lord well placed etc etc, that the poor boy does not have. So

apparently, the 9L and 10L joining

 

are giving different results but actually it is the difference of

other planetary positions that

 

is causing the differences.

 

When some relative or friend give me his data and tell me to see, I

first answer, "I see it as I

 

see you." Means, the chart always shows the social status, studies,

credits, etc etc of the

 

native. So when we are comparing the charts of a beggar boy VS a

prince, it means there are only

 

some differences between the charts that is why one is born in royal

family and another in a

 

slum. So some advantages are already given.

 

Remember Parasara said about certain combination, but did he talk

about 'The same chart'? I do

 

not think so. But in my example of D charts, it was about the same

(Rashi chart). So when

 

Parasara is talking about a 'same combination', it means only a part

of the chart, and of course

 

this part or combination would be modified and pushed down / pushed

up by other factors which

 

differ in a chart of prince and a poor boy. To summarize, the 9L and

10L combination is always

 

supported or obstructed by the other factors and for THIS DIFFERENCE

of 'other factors' one is in

 

the palace and another is in the slum so the effect is always there.

However my example was about

 

the same rashi chart [With only the Asc position varying.]

 

Even if we take it true, then it can not be true that all the 200

kids born had no parents more

 

spiritual etc. than mine, it could be true if my parents were

exceptionally spiritual that none

 

of those other clone kids parents could bit it... you get the idea :-)

 

 

>>>>> Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body or

Tanu.

 

The whole Rashi chart would show the body as well as the native's

nature etc. A very afflicted

 

2nd lord would make lose eyesight, an afflicted 5th lord would cause

problem with stomuch, 8th

 

house chronic diseases and so on. So only lagna is not the body. The

whole rashi chart is a

 

'plane' or 'picture' and any house can tell about the body, nature

and other things. And we read

 

it in respect to lagna i.e. taking the lagna as the first house.

 

As you said I would say the same, ie I am also a student and perhaps

more layman than you so

 

consider my humble views accordingly :-)

 

Best wishes,

Tanvir.

 

 

, "Tanvir Chowdhury"

<lord_narayana@l...> wrote:

> Dear Pradeep Ji,

>

> Thanks for your kind comments. I was very busy last days and so

could

> not reply. I would reply your post with my views soon.

>

> Best wishes,

> Tanvir.

>

> , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > Dear Tanvir Bhai

> >

> > The role you are playing is really imitatable.I have seen your

> > updated site.Congrats.

> > It was wonderful to read your article on Divisionals.I agree on

> some

> > points and tend to disagree on some.I hope you would allow me to

go

> > ahead with a healthy debate on this subject.Remember i am a

student

> > and hence my views are of academic level.

> >

> > Tanvirs opinion

> > ''Now, I was born on 24th Dec 1982, 12.30 AM, Dhaka. In the

> > same 'Specific two hours' that night, at least 3X120=360 babies

> were

> > born who have all the same Rashi Charts like me. Now, whatever

> result

> > I take out of my Rashi Chart, should be applied to them also!! ''

> >

> > My opinion - Parashara has said ,certain combinations for a

child

> > born in a royal family -will make him a king while the same

> > combination for one from an ordinary family will make him equal

to

> > king or endowed with similar luxuries.The degree of luxury will

> > diminish proportionally with the family status.

> >

> > What does this mean - Individuals with the same chart will not

have

> > similar results and events, but proportionally similar.Thus if

> > atleast some of the individuals who were born at the same time as

> > you,take interest in Khuran or spirituality ,it would be

> > sufficient.We dont know the spiritual level of your parents or

> grand

> > parents.Even though this may not be present in a manifested or

> > tangible form ,this can be present in them in a latent or

> > unquantifiable measure.

> >

> > Now regarding usage of divisionals.In my opinion, Divisional

> > placements do represent original planetary positions.If a planet

is

> > in Aries in Rashi and Gemini in Navamsha,it is in the ''gemini

> > element'' within Aries 'Rashi' when divided by 9.Now why a

certain

> > division within a Rashi has gemini nature or virgo nature has to

be

> > understood seperately.Parashara has given defintions on arriving

at

> > individual elements within a Rashi.

> >

> > Also when the divisions are broad (say 2-Hora, 4-Chathuramsha, 10-

> > Dashamsha) the indications are more related to physical

plane.Like

> > wealth,Vehicles,Profession etc.

> > The more we go up the influence is high and at a finer level.Eg

if

> > the lord of a bhava is in malefic shashtyamsha ,the results

> > diminish.Why is this? When we divide a Rashi into 60 - The

> influence

> > of the surrounding environment (amsha) is very high on the

> planet.Or

> > in other words we are observing the close influences on the

> > planet.While in Rashi, we are just viewing this from a broader

> level.

> >

> > Now in my view, Parashara has never mentioned any usage of

> > divisionals as a chart in full or as houses.He has only advised

us

> > in ascertaining the strengths of planets in various amshas.Also

to

> > see karaka grahas or bhavas positions in the corresponding

> amsha.For

> > eg ,if we want to consider Hora, we have to first see dhana yogas

> and

> > arishta yogas from rashi after ascertaining health and

> longevity.Now

> > this has to be confirmed from the relevant divisionals.For that

we

> > have to see if Sun ,Mars and Jupiter are in the hora of Sun or

> > not.Similarly Moon ,Venus and Saturn are strong in the Hora of

> > Moon.Here if we consider Hora as a full chart what is the use? We

> > will end up saying some planets are in the 12th and some are in

the

> > second.Thus the other houses are useless in this case?Because

> always

> > in Hora all the planets can fall only in the Hora of either Sun

or

> > Moon.Also the Dhana/Raja yoga forming planets amshas can be

> observed

> > in various divisionals.If they are good,then you can confirm the

> > results.Again good is relative - Parashara refers to own

> > sign,exaltation,kendra lords from AL,Non combust etc when he

> comments

> > on what is a good amsha.All these references are w.r to the

> positions

> > in Rashi.

> >

> > Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body or

> > Tanu.See the position of Lagna & its lord in various divisions to

> > confirm health.Especially D-6.

> >

> > Thus I believe the interpretation of the usage of divisionals is

> not

> > proper.Many eminent astrologers are considering divisionals as

full

> > charts and using aspects ,etc there.For me this is neither

> > astrologically nor astronomically ,logical.We are assuming things

> > which Parashara never had in mind.

> >

> > I would be happy to hear views regarding this from you and other

> > members of the group.

> >

> > Kind regds & Thanks

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > @

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mehta Ji,

 

Please answer me something. If the birth time is same, yet for

different location the KP sub lords are different, then does not in

mean that the Asc degree would also be different changing the Asc in

some finer D charts like D60 etc.?

 

Tanvir.

 

 

, Hasmukhrai Mehta

<astroclinik> wrote:

>

> Dear Tanveerji,

>

>

>

> I don't agree on certain points. When there is one birth every

second in India, there are bound to be thousands of births on the

same day, in the same lagna and hundreds of them may be in the same

degree of lagna. Some of them may take birth in millionaire families

while many in the poorest of poor families, though they may have the

same configuration of planets in their birth charts. One of them may

become the President of India, though born in a middle class family

while some of them might be working as doctor, engineer or some high

official or some may become beggars for survival, though they have

similar birth charts, similar divisional charts and similar yogas.

>

>

>

> According to KP the sub-lords of lagna and every other cusp decides

the individuality of the native, their family, their longevity,

health. financial prospects, education, profession, etc. These "subs"

of the 12 cusps change with the location of birth and decide the

course of different aspects of life.

>

>

>

> We do not take into account this "cusp" factor while judging the

chart.

>

>

>

> Our great seers have given us basic rules as guidelines for which

we must be indebted to them. However, they need not be complete or

foolproof in themselves. Always, there is scope for research and

improvement. We should not be shy to accept proven truths of

astrology revealed by researchers like Prof. Krishnamurti. He has

given us some of the greatest tools to make reading of the

birth/horary chart more perfect and more useful.

>

>

>

> Good luck

>

>

>

> Hasmukhrai J Mehta.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Tanvir

Thanks for your reply.Call me pradeep.

>>>If the family status etc. was this important, then the same

position

>>>could indicate a lot varying results then it would not be possible

to 'generalize' the astrology theories with

>>>exaltaion ,debilitation etc

 

Exaltation ,debilitation all can still hold true.Under

Rajayogas ,Parashara says - for a person of royal descent, 3 exlated

planets are sufficient,while for the ordinary 5 may be needed for

achieving same results.What does this suggest?If this royal descent

was not important, parashara could had neglected this.Perhaps he

would had advised us to check the remaining planetary combinations

for arriving at a conclusion.Now this 'Royal' descent should not be

taken literally - It is a sliding bench mark for evaluating charts.It

gives us a clue regarding the external factors to be considered.

Ofcourse parents can be understood from the chart.But it is possible

that a school teacher from a village and a maharaja may enjoy similar

respect within their own communities.In the chart of the prince as

well as the school teacher's son -similar indications may be

present.But the way the respect is shown may be different.Thus

proportional considerations are needed while arriving at

conclusions.Family background is ofcourse embedded.But rich or poor

is again a relative term - even among maharajas there can be rich and

poor.Among thugs there can be a 'benevolent' man - and in relative

terms he may be considered 'great' within the community.

Thus the family backround obviously plays a role in case of similar

charts.Even for certain combinations - parashara had advised us to

check family status(rather than asking to check other combinations) -

then why not about similar charts?.

Now ofcourse divisionals can show a great difference.For example with

every half a degree change, the shastyamsha will point to a different

karmic past.Thus divisionals are to be studied.My only concern is the

way in which divisionals are being analysed.Parashara has never asked

us to cast individual charts for vargas other than D-1.Also different

Vimshopaka considerations are given for different vargas.

Parashara Hora which is one among the shadvargas - clearly shows the

irrelevance of lordships and aspects in vargas other than D-1.As all

the planets will be either in Suns/Moons Hora and thereby in the

vargas of either Leo or Cancer.

 

 

>>>>> Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body or

Tanu.

 

I have said, not for body 'Alone'.Many places i have found - Rashi(D-

1) is for body and Hora for dhana,dashamsha for education etc.This is

not correct.From D-1 you can see everything.Thus i said not for

body 'alone'.(Lagna in D-1 shows the individual or body as a

whole.Individual houses will show different organs).In D-1, You can

see the body as well as dhana,mother,father,profession etc.While from

individual higher vargas ,you can find the finer aspects and

strengths of relevant matters.For example 10th in D-1 is a must for

ascertaining profession.Similarly 10th from tenth ,2nd from tenth etc

for finding other matters related to tenth.After this one has to go

to dashamsha and see how karaka planets are placed,is this varga a

beneficial one or not.'Beneficial' evaluation has to be understood by

rules given by parashara.

Thus individual analysis of dashamsha will be misleading.In my

opinion casting a chart as dashamsha itself is erroneous as Parashara

has never advised this.We are asked to see only the varga placements.

Also astronomically, casting a higher varga will distort the

fundementals of aspects.D-1 is division of planetary positions by 1

or in other words the same.D-2 is divison of each rashi into 2 and

see the placement.D-10 is division of each rashi into 10 and to find

the varga within a rashi.

Regarding spirituality of parents - i have already mentioned about

the yet to be manifested or latent forms of traits.Thus we may not be

aware of such,though present.

This is my understanding.

Best regds

Pradeep

 

 

, "Tanvir Chowdhury"

<lord_narayana@l...> wrote:

> Dear Pradeep Ji, here are my replies -

>

> >>>> My opinion - Parashara has said ,certain combinations for a

child

> born in a royal family -will make him a king while the same

> combination for one from an ordinary family will make him equal to

> king or endowed with similar luxuries.The degree of luxury will

> diminish proportionally with the family status.

>

> A) I humbly choose to disagree. (To what you said, not to BPHS.) A

> chart would be the all same.

>

> If the family status etc. was this important, then the same

position

> could indicate a lot varying

>

> results then it would not be possible to 'generalize' the astrology

> theories with exaltation,

>

> debilitation etc.

>

> B) Also I would say that the family background itself is embedded

in

> the chart itself (Matter of

>

> if one can read it or not) and that is why seeing the chart it is

> possible to tell about parents,

>

> their nature, family status etc. etc. So, there are always making

> some difference in the position

>

> itself.

>

> Let me tell you something very definite. Suppose, a prince has his

9L

> and 10L joined. A beggar

>

> boy has his 9L and 10L joined too. And in this case you will be

> correct that the effects will

>

> vary. But did you think why? Because though the 9L and 10L

> combination is same, but all other

>

> facts of the chart are NOT same, and of course, the prince really

> does have some other great

>

> positional advantages the poor boy does not have. The prince might

> have his Sun well placed, Asc

>

> lord well placed etc etc, that the poor boy does not have. So

> apparently, the 9L and 10L joining

>

> are giving different results but actually it is the difference of

> other planetary positions that

>

> is causing the differences.

>

> When some relative or friend give me his data and tell me to see, I

> first answer, "I see it as I

>

> see you." Means, the chart always shows the social status, studies,

> credits, etc etc of the

>

> native. So when we are comparing the charts of a beggar boy VS a

> prince, it means there are only

>

> some differences between the charts that is why one is born in

royal

> family and another in a

>

> slum. So some advantages are already given.

>

> Remember Parasara said about certain combination, but did he talk

> about 'The same chart'? I do

>

> not think so. But in my example of D charts, it was about the same

> (Rashi chart). So when

>

> Parasara is talking about a 'same combination', it means only a

part

> of the chart, and of course

>

> this part or combination would be modified and pushed down / pushed

> up by other factors which

>

> differ in a chart of prince and a poor boy. To summarize, the 9L

and

> 10L combination is always

>

> supported or obstructed by the other factors and for THIS

DIFFERENCE

> of 'other factors' one is in

>

> the palace and another is in the slum so the effect is always

there.

> However my example was about

>

> the same rashi chart [With only the Asc position varying.]

>

> Even if we take it true, then it can not be true that all the 200

> kids born had no parents more

>

> spiritual etc. than mine, it could be true if my parents were

> exceptionally spiritual that none

>

> of those other clone kids parents could bit it... you get the

idea :-)

>

>

> >>>>> Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body

or

> Tanu.

>

> The whole Rashi chart would show the body as well as the native's

> nature etc. A very afflicted

>

> 2nd lord would make lose eyesight, an afflicted 5th lord would

cause

> problem with stomuch, 8th

>

> house chronic diseases and so on. So only lagna is not the body.

The

> whole rashi chart is a

>

> 'plane' or 'picture' and any house can tell about the body, nature

> and other things. And we read

>

> it in respect to lagna i.e. taking the lagna as the first house.

>

> As you said I would say the same, ie I am also a student and

perhaps

> more layman than you so

>

> consider my humble views accordingly :-)

>

> Best wishes,

> Tanvir.

>

>

> , "Tanvir Chowdhury"

> <lord_narayana@l...> wrote:

> > Dear Pradeep Ji,

> >

> > Thanks for your kind comments. I was very busy last days and so

> could

> > not reply. I would reply your post with my views soon.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Tanvir.

> >

> > , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > > Dear Tanvir Bhai

> > >

> > > The role you are playing is really imitatable.I have seen your

> > > updated site.Congrats.

> > > It was wonderful to read your article on Divisionals.I agree on

> > some

> > > points and tend to disagree on some.I hope you would allow me

to

> go

> > > ahead with a healthy debate on this subject.Remember i am a

> student

> > > and hence my views are of academic level.

> > >

> > > Tanvirs opinion

> > > ''Now, I was born on 24th Dec 1982, 12.30 AM, Dhaka. In the

> > > same 'Specific two hours' that night, at least 3X120=360 babies

> > were

> > > born who have all the same Rashi Charts like me. Now, whatever

> > result

> > > I take out of my Rashi Chart, should be applied to them

also!! ''

> > >

> > > My opinion - Parashara has said ,certain combinations for a

> child

> > > born in a royal family -will make him a king while the same

> > > combination for one from an ordinary family will make him equal

> to

> > > king or endowed with similar luxuries.The degree of luxury will

> > > diminish proportionally with the family status.

> > >

> > > What does this mean - Individuals with the same chart will not

> have

> > > similar results and events, but proportionally similar.Thus if

> > > atleast some of the individuals who were born at the same time

as

> > > you,take interest in Khuran or spirituality ,it would be

> > > sufficient.We dont know the spiritual level of your parents or

> > grand

> > > parents.Even though this may not be present in a manifested or

> > > tangible form ,this can be present in them in a latent or

> > > unquantifiable measure.

> > >

> > > Now regarding usage of divisionals.In my opinion, Divisional

> > > placements do represent original planetary positions.If a

planet

> is

> > > in Aries in Rashi and Gemini in Navamsha,it is in the ''gemini

> > > element'' within Aries 'Rashi' when divided by 9.Now why a

> certain

> > > division within a Rashi has gemini nature or virgo nature has

to

> be

> > > understood seperately.Parashara has given defintions on

arriving

> at

> > > individual elements within a Rashi.

> > >

> > > Also when the divisions are broad (say 2-Hora, 4-Chathuramsha,

10-

> > > Dashamsha) the indications are more related to physical

> plane.Like

> > > wealth,Vehicles,Profession etc.

> > > The more we go up the influence is high and at a finer level.Eg

> if

> > > the lord of a bhava is in malefic shashtyamsha ,the results

> > > diminish.Why is this? When we divide a Rashi into 60 - The

> > influence

> > > of the surrounding environment (amsha) is very high on the

> > planet.Or

> > > in other words we are observing the close influences on the

> > > planet.While in Rashi, we are just viewing this from a broader

> > level.

> > >

> > > Now in my view, Parashara has never mentioned any usage of

> > > divisionals as a chart in full or as houses.He has only

advised

> us

> > > in ascertaining the strengths of planets in various amshas.Also

> to

> > > see karaka grahas or bhavas positions in the corresponding

> > amsha.For

> > > eg ,if we want to consider Hora, we have to first see dhana

yogas

> > and

> > > arishta yogas from rashi after ascertaining health and

> > longevity.Now

> > > this has to be confirmed from the relevant divisionals.For that

> we

> > > have to see if Sun ,Mars and Jupiter are in the hora of Sun or

> > > not.Similarly Moon ,Venus and Saturn are strong in the Hora of

> > > Moon.Here if we consider Hora as a full chart what is the use?

We

> > > will end up saying some planets are in the 12th and some are in

> the

> > > second.Thus the other houses are useless in this case?Because

> > always

> > > in Hora all the planets can fall only in the Hora of either Sun

> or

> > > Moon.Also the Dhana/Raja yoga forming planets amshas can be

> > observed

> > > in various divisionals.If they are good,then you can confirm

the

> > > results.Again good is relative - Parashara refers to own

> > > sign,exaltation,kendra lords from AL,Non combust etc when he

> > comments

> > > on what is a good amsha.All these references are w.r to the

> > positions

> > > in Rashi.

> > >

> > > Also full Rashi chart is not for body alone,Lagna is for body

or

> > > Tanu.See the position of Lagna & its lord in various divisions

to

> > > confirm health.Especially D-6.

> > >

> > > Thus I believe the interpretation of the usage of divisionals

is

> > not

> > > proper.Many eminent astrologers are considering divisionals as

> full

> > > charts and using aspects ,etc there.For me this is neither

> > > astrologically nor astronomically ,logical.We are assuming

things

> > > which Parashara never had in mind.

> > >

> > > I would be happy to hear views regarding this from you and

other

> > > members of the group.

> > >

> > > Kind regds & Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > @