Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dear Tanvir, Did you write this article? Amazing! Very beautiful. But as you have said "but you are just experiencing > everything according to the karma you have performed > in your past births" I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do believe that what has to happen will and there is definitely something called destiny which can be revealed by this amazing "...." called astrology (we get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt help always...well or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental strength but then when remedies fail we say God does not exist or God exists but its our karma phal which we have to bear etc. Your quote what cannot happen can never happen which is mine is forever mine is so true.... So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it sorrow or happiness...there is no other option :-) sneh Manoshi Di -- In , brijesh bagga <brij731> wrote: > Its a beautiful article to show you rself standing > in front of the mirror describing the whole story of > ones life as decided by the planets. What learned > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > itself a misfortune. > Brijesh > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if you > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of your > > time! > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe people's > > lives around us, we feel it needed to acknowledge > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen that > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason and > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is this > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been proved to > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > children for another man and how the husband > > destroys him little by little after that, and it is > > very difficult to believe such events even after > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or to > > someone close to you. You will question yourself, > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? Why > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you are > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be real, > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > believed. It will lead you to the condition where > > you will seriously start to doubt if there exists > > someone called God at all. Because if God is really > > there, how can he tolerate all these unfairness and > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few people > > getting religiously inclined for the pains life has > > given them, but they are very few in number. Most > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > themselves little by little when they are > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing suicides > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but we > > often fail to see the destruction going inside. > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I have > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and that > > always led me to the impression that what in general > > we know and believe about life, destiny and God is > > not true, can never be true. There are some serious > > incorrect information about the things we are taught > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will listen to > > you, do good things God will be kind towards you, > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way we > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. I have > > dealt with a large number of human lives and saw > > that most of the times the innocent people are the > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This world > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. This > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are possible to > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered same > > time, including the most intense and serious prayers > > and pleas to him that I submitted waking all nights > > with long and tiring worships. Surprisingly, all > > those subjects of prayers took a route of most > > miserable ends with the course of time. > > > > And observing all these, I always felt that > > there is something, some truth, some facts about > > destiny and life-mechanism that we never know. There > > is a hidden system that works behind all these > > things happen to us. It responds to each and every > > act we perform, but it does not respond the way we > > expect, but has it's own system and nature of > > responding to us. Only those who can knowingly or > > unknowingly tune up or adjust with this system are > > happy and others are unhappy, does not matter how > > innocent or how qualified they are. > > > > I know that many people would not agree to > > me and would call this world to be a beautiful > > place. I do not declare them to be wrong. Because, > > people believe what they experience. Some believe > > life to be fair because unfair things did not happen > > to them that much. And they are lucky that is why > > nothing wrong happened to them. I have always seen > > that being rich, happy or successful does not prove > > your qualification or innocence but it just proves > > your fortune. Because it has been my constant > > experience from people's lives that without fortune > > one is not rewarded for his qualification nor for > > his goodness as a human being. That is why when I > > think of one's life, I see it as a person driving a > > car through a highway. Simply how good you drive, > > you can never assure that you would not be caught > > down with an accident because accidents do happen > > for others' faults where we have nothing to do than > > just taking part in it or just being present in it. > > Similarly in life sometimes we do nothing wrong but > > for others' mistake we fall the victim of condition > > and have to pay, and we find no ways to get out of > > these. Oppositely sometimes we get a lot more > > rewards than we actually deserve. > > > > All these confusions of me only found true > > and practically effective answers when I got in to > > Jyotish and started to realize how life works. > > Basically, Jyotish is the set of rules that operate > > our lives. God had to make a lot of rules when > > creating this universe. As an example he set the > > gravity for which anything falls in to the ground. > > The earth pulls us toward it, the sun pulls the > > earth and other planets toward it. When we press our > > hand in to a wall, it gets obstructed by the wall > > and does not pass through it instead. When the > > temperature can be lowered then the water would turn > > in to ice... there are innumerable laws of up on > > which the creation is getting maintained. We are > > discovering and controlling these more and more with > > science. But actually there are a lot more 'laws of > > nature' that physics etc. can not reach or explain. > > Those rules can not be proved by scientific theories > > but only by observing lives they prove true. Those > > are the rules that operate our lives. And the set of > > those rules is called Jyotish. And in Hinduism it > > has been described the same, when Lord Brahma > > created this universe then he received the knowledge > > of the material creation from Lord Vishnu a part of > > which was Jyotish or Vedic Astrology. Vedic > > Astrology was not discovered or developed by people > > or scientists but just was received from the God, > > who created this universe and told us the rules of > > this universe. And if you study even a little of > > Jyotish you will see that it's nature and structure > > is something like that what can not be developed by > > human effort. > > > > When we realize this fact and also apply > > Jyotish theories to our lives then we see whatever > > is happening to our lives are happening as per the > > horoscopes of us i.e. the Jyotish. Then it answers > > all sort of questions and confusions I talked about. > > It answers that God is not unfair, nor he is cruel > > to make you suffer, but you are just experiencing > > everything according to the karma you have performed > > in your past births. It shows that God is not > > bothering to punish you but he has set a complete > > set of rules over your head and each of the events > > happens to you for you perform a particular action > > to make the event happen. It is like the echo, the > > sound you make, it reflects accordingly up on you. > > However this echo does not reflect as we generally > > expect it to do, such as work hard and you will be > > rich, study hard so that you do good in studies, and > > so on. Because we see that working hard can not > > always make someone rich nor studying hard ensures a > > good grade in your exams. (As I said, most unfair > > things happen.) And so these things happen as per > > the karma or destiny you have been carrying from the > > previous births. In general they do not happen for > > what you are doing now, and the exception is > > performing remedial measure, when you know what sort > > of action is going to react in which way, and then > > you do accordingly. It is not engaging 'worldly > > efforts' to get something done that often fail, but > > it is about working with the mechanism and the core > > rules. Because you know the basic rules and know > > what sort of action will carry what sort of reaction > > from the nature, since you know the rules of > > creation. And when you start realizing this, you > > will see that trying with worldly efforts is like > > blind efforts, because that might be or might not be > > fruitful, (depending upon the horoscope, that shows > > the destiny most of the times.) but when you work as > > per the rule of nature or creation, you get it done. > > > > However the observation that worldly efforts > > often work is also true, but only partial. Worldly > > or material effort would mean the efforts we > > generally make, like going to see the doctor when we > > have a health problem, etc. Actually, the fact is > > that, going to doctor is actually an excuse the > > planets are making the incident happen. It is a way > > or medium the work is getting done. More elaborated, > > with serious misplacement of planets, a person would > > not have even the money or scope to visit the > > doctor. A better planetary position, he would visit > > the doctor but still health problem remains. A > > normal position, he visits the doctor and gets his > > solution. Much better, his health problem goes away > > from it's own even before he visits a doctor. The > > best position - he does not have any health problem. > > (In a particular time only, because all of us would > > fall in to health problems more or less in our > > lives. But, how frequently and seriously the health > > troubles would occur would be caused by the > > horoscope.) > > > > Thus an experienced astrologer who deeply > > watches lives would see that actually it is the > > planets making the person undertake different > > worldly efforts to solve his problems. It is the > > strength of evil planets verses the strength and > > placement > === message truncated === > > > > > > _______________________________ > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Dear friends, We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major course of our life. We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing goes right and you get every thing. When you are running a bad period , even your best friends would cause some harm to you and you are physically and emotionally drained. We can see this through Astrolgy. But the things which comes to my mind again and again is whether the theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the results of our actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. Human population has grown from one billion to six billion in last 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time created indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from the past. How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them ?! I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In the expanding universe small particles like our lives are created with some random selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity in such randomness but it should not be law of Karma. Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to accept the life as it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness only to go back into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. Inder - In , "Manoshi Chatterjee" <khallopapa> wrote: > Dear Tanvir, > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very beautiful. But as you have > said "but you are just experiencing > > everything according to the karma you have performed > > in your past births" > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do believe that what > has to happen will and there is definitely something called destiny > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." called astrology (we > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt help always...well > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental strength but then when > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God exists but its our > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > Your quote > what cannot happen can never happen > which is mine is forever mine > > is so true.... > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it sorrow or > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > sneh > Manoshi Di > -- In , brijesh bagga <brij731> > wrote: > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself standing > > in front of the mirror describing the whole story of > > ones life as decided by the planets. What learned > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > itself a misfortune. > > Brijesh > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if you > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of your > > > time! > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe people's > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to acknowledge > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen that > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason and > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is this > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been proved to > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > destroys him little by little after that, and it is > > > very difficult to believe such events even after > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or to > > > someone close to you. You will question yourself, > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? Why > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you are > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be real, > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition where > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there exists > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is really > > > there, how can he tolerate all these unfairness and > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few people > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains life has > > > given them, but they are very few in number. Most > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing suicides > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but we > > > often fail to see the destruction going inside. > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I have > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and that > > > always led me to the impression that what in general > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and God is > > > not true, can never be true. There are some serious > > > incorrect information about the things we are taught > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will listen to > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards you, > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way we > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. I have > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and saw > > > that most of the times the innocent people are the > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This world > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. This > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are possible to > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered same > > > time, including the most intense and serious prayers > > > and pleas to him that I submitted waking all nights > > > with long and tiring worships. Surprisingly, all > > > those subjects of prayers took a route of most > > > miserable ends with the course of time. > > > > > > And observing all these, I always felt that > > > there is something, some truth, some facts about > > > destiny and life-mechanism that we never know. There > > > is a hidden system that works behind all these > > > things happen to us. It responds to each and every > > > act we perform, but it does not respond the way we > > > expect, but has it's own system and nature of > > > responding to us. Only those who can knowingly or > > > unknowingly tune up or adjust with this system are > > > happy and others are unhappy, does not matter how > > > innocent or how qualified they are. > > > > > > I know that many people would not agree to > > > me and would call this world to be a beautiful > > > place. I do not declare them to be wrong. Because, > > > people believe what they experience. Some believe > > > life to be fair because unfair things did not happen > > > to them that much. And they are lucky that is why > > > nothing wrong happened to them. I have always seen > > > that being rich, happy or successful does not prove > > > your qualification or innocence but it just proves > > > your fortune. Because it has been my constant > > > experience from people's lives that without fortune > > > one is not rewarded for his qualification nor for > > > his goodness as a human being. That is why when I > > > think of one's life, I see it as a person driving a > > > car through a highway. Simply how good you drive, > > > you can never assure that you would not be caught > > > down with an accident because accidents do happen > > > for others' faults where we have nothing to do than > > > just taking part in it or just being present in it. > > > Similarly in life sometimes we do nothing wrong but > > > for others' mistake we fall the victim of condition > > > and have to pay, and we find no ways to get out of > > > these. Oppositely sometimes we get a lot more > > > rewards than we actually deserve. > > > > > > All these confusions of me only found true > > > and practically effective answers when I got in to > > > Jyotish and started to realize how life works. > > > Basically, Jyotish is the set of rules that operate > > > our lives. God had to make a lot of rules when > > > creating this universe. As an example he set the > > > gravity for which anything falls in to the ground. > > > The earth pulls us toward it, the sun pulls the > > > earth and other planets toward it. When we press our > > > hand in to a wall, it gets obstructed by the wall > > > and does not pass through it instead. When the > > > temperature can be lowered then the water would turn > > > in to ice... there are innumerable laws of up on > > > which the creation is getting maintained. We are > > > discovering and controlling these more and more with > > > science. But actually there are a lot more 'laws of > > > nature' that physics etc. can not reach or explain. > > > Those rules can not be proved by scientific theories > > > but only by observing lives they prove true. Those > > > are the rules that operate our lives. And the set of > > > those rules is called Jyotish. And in Hinduism it > > > has been described the same, when Lord Brahma > > > created this universe then he received the knowledge > > > of the material creation from Lord Vishnu a part of > > > which was Jyotish or Vedic Astrology. Vedic > > > Astrology was not discovered or developed by people > > > or scientists but just was received from the God, > > > who created this universe and told us the rules of > > > this universe. And if you study even a little of > > > Jyotish you will see that it's nature and structure > > > is something like that what can not be developed by > > > human effort. > > > > > > When we realize this fact and also apply > > > Jyotish theories to our lives then we see whatever > > > is happening to our lives are happening as per the > > > horoscopes of us i.e. the Jyotish. Then it answers > > > all sort of questions and confusions I talked about. > > > It answers that God is not unfair, nor he is cruel > > > to make you suffer, but you are just experiencing > > > everything according to the karma you have performed > > > in your past births. It shows that God is not > > > bothering to punish you but he has set a complete > > > set of rules over your head and each of the events > > > happens to you for you perform a particular action > > > to make the event happen. It is like the echo, the > > > sound you make, it reflects accordingly up on you. > > > However this echo does not reflect as we generally > > > expect it to do, such as work hard and you will be > > > rich, study hard so that you do good in studies, and > > > so on. Because we see that working hard can not > > > always make someone rich nor studying hard ensures a > > > good grade in your exams. (As I said, most unfair > > > things happen.) And so these things happen as per > > > the karma or destiny you have been carrying from the > > > previous births. In general they do not happen for > > > what you are doing now, and the exception is > > > performing remedial measure, when you know what sort > > > of action is going to react in which way, and then > > > you do accordingly. It is not engaging 'worldly > > > efforts' to get something done that often fail, but > > > it is about working with the mechanism and the core > > > rules. Because you know the basic rules and know > > > what sort of action will carry what sort of reaction > > > from the nature, since you know the rules of > > > creation. And when you start realizing this, you > > > will see that trying with worldly efforts is like > > > blind efforts, because that might be or might not be > > > fruitful, (depending upon the horoscope, that shows > > > the destiny most of the times.) but when you work as > > > per the rule of nature or creation, you get it done. > > > > > > However the observation that worldly efforts > > > often work is also true, but only partial. Worldly > > > or material effort would mean the efforts we > > > generally make, like going to see the doctor when we > > > have a health problem, etc. Actually, the fact is > > > that, going to doctor is actually an excuse the > > > planets are making the incident happen. It is a way > > > or medium the work is getting done. More elaborated, > > > with serious misplacement of planets, a person would > > > not have even the money or scope to visit the > > > doctor. A better planetary position, he would visit > > > the doctor but still health problem remains. A > > > normal position, he visits the doctor and gets his > > > solution. Much better, his health problem goes away > > > from it's own even before he visits a doctor. The > > > best position - he does not have any health problem. > > > (In a particular time only, because all of us would > > > fall in to health problems more or less in our > > > lives. But, how frequently and seriously the health > > > troubles would occur would be caused by the > > > horoscope.) > > > > > > Thus an experienced astrologer who deeply > > > watches lives would see that actually it is the > > > planets making the person undertake different > > > worldly efforts to solve his problems. It is the > > > strength of evil planets verses the strength and > > > placement > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > > http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 of course, before coming to astrology i did not believe in karma/rebirth too. but it is the only explanation/reason to say that god is not this cruel and hurting us for nothing. i like to take god as a kind existance, so i believe in this. also there is another strong reason to believe in this. all the things taught by hinduism [that i can verify] are found true by me, say jyotish, mantras, remedies, yantras, even their old scientific theories are true, i find. so i have a feeling that their rebirth theory is also true and this is only the reason that can explain the jyotish, and why 'innocent' people suffer, and without the rebirth theory jyotish and the whole system comes up with a serious, big "missing part"... regs tan What can not happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. Tanvir Chowdhury Cellular: +88 0189407202 Mail: lord_narayana Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com Forum: - Inder Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:04 PM Re: Life is not fair---Tanvir Dear friends, We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major course of our life. We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing goes right and you get every thing. When you are running a bad period , even your best friends would cause some harm to you and you are physically and emotionally drained. We can see this through Astrolgy. But the things which comes to my mind again and again is whether the theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the results of our actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. Human population has grown from one billion to six billion in last 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time created indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from the past. How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them ?! I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In the expanding universe small particles like our lives are created with some random selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity in such randomness but it should not be law of Karma. Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to accept the life as it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness only to go back into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. Inder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Life is an experiment. Some feel more comfortable with a manual, others do not. Even amongst those who feel more comfortable with a manual, some read it, others do not. Of both these groups, some begin to rewrite the manual after reading halfway through, others rewrite even without reading the manual. There are many other way to classify the experimentars. The one thing is constant whether you belong to group A or B or C. No one escapes out of the class room, until the bell rings! RR -- , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...> wrote: > of course, before coming to astrology i did not believe in karma/rebirth too. but it is the only explanation/reason to say that god is not this cruel and hurting us for nothing. i like to take god as a kind existance, so i believe in this. > > also there is another strong reason to believe in this. all the things taught by hinduism [that i can verify] are found true by me, say jyotish, mantras, remedies, yantras, even their old scientific theories are true, i find. so i have a feeling that their rebirth theory is also true and this is only the reason that can explain the jyotish, and why 'innocent' people suffer, and without the rebirth theory jyotish and the whole system comes up with a serious, big "missing part"... > > regs > tan > > > > What can not happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > Tanvir Chowdhury > Cellular: +88 0189407202 > Mail: lord_narayana@l... > Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com > Forum: > > - > Inder > > Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:04 PM > Re: Life is not fair---Tanvir > > > Dear friends, > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major course of our life. > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing goes right and > you get every thing. When you are running a bad period , even your > best friends would cause some harm to you and you are physically and > emotionally drained. We can see this through Astrolgy. > > But the things which comes to my mind again and again is whether the > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the results of our > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > Human population has grown from one billion to six billion in last > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time created > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from the past. > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them ?! > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In the expanding > universe small particles like our lives are created with some random > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity in such > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to accept the life as > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness only to go back > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > Inder > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Inder, I am not sure if you remember, but I asked the same question a couple of months ago .. different issue that no one answered ! Well, as I kept pondering, one thought came to my mind ... there are millions of other species which are correspondingly being reduced with increase in human population ... can this be one point to think about? Manoshi !! .. if you accept karma u have to accept rebirth .. you cant accept karma and not accept rebirth because in one single life you dont experience all that you should be experiencing by your actions .. --- Inder <indervohra2001 wrote: > Dear friends, > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > course of our life. > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing > goes right and > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > period , even your > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > are physically and > emotionally drained. We can see this through > Astrolgy. > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > again is whether the > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > results of our > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > billion in last > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time > created > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from > the past. > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > ?! > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In > the expanding > universe small particles like our lives are created > with some random > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > in such > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > accept the life as > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > only to go back > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > Inder > > - In , "Manoshi > Chatterjee" > <khallopapa> wrote: > > Dear Tanvir, > > > > Did you write this article? Amazing! Very > beautiful. But as you > have > > said "but you are just experiencing > > > everything according to the karma you have > performed > > > in your past births" > > I am not a believer of past birth etc. Yes I do > believe that what > > has to happen will and there is definitely > something called > destiny > > which can be revealed by this amazing "...." > called astrology (we > > get proofs everyday) but as you said God doesnt > help always...well > > or remedies dont work :-) it gives us mental > strength but then > when > > remedies fail we say God does not exist or God > exists but its our > > karma phal which we have to bear etc. > > > > Your quote > > what cannot happen can never happen > > which is mine is forever mine > > > > is so true.... > > > > So lets accept what life has to offer us...be it > sorrow or > > happiness...there is no other option :-) > > > > sneh > > Manoshi Di > > -- In , brijesh > bagga > <brij731> > > wrote: > > > Its a beautiful article to show you rself > standing > > > in front of the mirror describing the whole > story of > > > ones life as decided by the planets. What > learned > > > people believe is--- To be born in this world is > > > itself a misfortune. > > > Brijesh > > > --- Tanvir <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > This essay shows the role of astrology [Vedic > > > > Astrology] in our lives. This is long but if > you > > > > read it taking time, it might be a good use of > your > > > > time! > > > > > > > > > > > > Life is not fair > > > > > > > > Truly and honestly, when we observe > people's > > > > lives around us, we feel it needed to > acknowledge > > > > that life is not fair. I have repeatedly seen > that > > > > complete innocent people suffer for no reason > and > > > > people doing all sort of unfair and immoral > > > > activities enjoy all sort of happiness. Is > this > > > > fair? I have seen one's wife who has been > proved to > > > > be most loving and faithful leaves him and his > > > > children for another man and how the husband > > > > destroys him little by little after that, and > it is > > > > very difficult to believe such events even > after > > > > they happen in life. It would be a lot more > > > > difficult to believe if it happens to you or > to > > > > someone close to you. You will question > yourself, > > > > "What did I do? Why this had to happen to me? > Why > > > > this punishment?" You will often wonder if you > are > > > > in an endless dream which is seeming to be > real, > > > > because the reality would be too cruel to be > > > > believed. It will lead you to the condition > where > > > > you will seriously start to doubt if there > exists > > > > someone called God at all. Because if God is > really > > > > there, how can he tolerate all these > unfairness and > > > > punish people for nothing? I have seen a few > people > > > > getting religiously inclined for the pains > life has > > > > given them, but they are very few in number. > Most > > > > people lose all their potentials and destroy > > > > themselves little by little when they are > > > > continuously hurt over and over. Committing > suicides > > > > and getting in to drugs are what we see, but > we > > > > often fail to see the destruction going > inside. > > > > > > > > Even before getting in to Jyotish I > have > > > > dealt extensively with people's lives, and > that > > > > always led me to the impression that what in > general > > > > we know and believe about life, destiny and > God is > > > > not true, can never be true. There are some > serious > > > > incorrect information about the things we are > taught > > > > from our boyhood, like pray to God he will > listen to > > > > you, do good things God will be kind towards > you, > > > > etc. etc. Good deeds are not rewarded the way > we > > > > expect nor bad deeds are punished right away. > I have > > > > dealt with a large number of human lives and > saw > > > > that most of the times the innocent people are > the > > > > victims of the misfortune and problems. This > world > > > > is full of unfairness and full of cruelty. > This > > > > world is a very bad place and everyone is so > > > > selfish. All sort of unfair things are > possible to > > > > happen in anyone's life. > > > > > > > > In my life a few of the prayers were > > > > answered by the God but a lot were unanswered > same > > > > time, including the most intense and serious > prayers > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Tanvir, I agree with so many things that you say .. I would like to add my personal interpretation that Karma literally dosent mean tit for tat ... it dosent mean that if you kill a person in a birth you will be killed in the next (or some future) birth .. what it means is that should you stay in the same level of consciousness through your birth then you will be killed .. but if you progress towards god and your level of awareness then when your karma is ripe for you to experience you will undergo bodily harm from some one .. or so it goes .. I am not sure if I have conveyed the idea well .. but I believe that every birth is a chance for us to start with a fresh slate ... the experiences of the past are in the subconscious guiding you in this life but giving you the total freedom to reprogram the subconsciuos with your actions without having to carry the burden of guilt or negitive experiences of past on your head as you live your present life ! In that sense God is truly benevolent .. because if you look at it .. all experiences we undergo take us one step closer to him depending on where we stand ... If there is god he truly just wants to be loved and have you back with him .. however he wont interfere with you and will let u figure your life for yourself ! --- Tanvir <ultimate wrote: > of course, before coming to astrology i did not > believe in karma/rebirth too. but it is the only > explanation/reason to say that god is not this cruel > and hurting us for nothing. i like to take god as a > kind existance, so i believe in this. > > also there is another strong reason to believe in > this. all the things taught by hinduism [that i can > verify] are found true by me, say jyotish, mantras, > remedies, yantras, even their old scientific > theories are true, i find. so i have a feeling that > their rebirth theory is also true and this is only > the reason that can explain the jyotish, and why > 'innocent' people suffer, and without the rebirth > theory jyotish and the whole system comes up with a > serious, big "missing part"... > > regs > tan > > > > What can not happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > Tanvir Chowdhury > Cellular: +88 0189407202 > Mail: lord_narayana > Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com > Forum: > > > - > Inder > > Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:04 PM > Re: Life is not fair---Tanvir > > > Dear friends, > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major > course of our life. > We live as per our destiny.In good times every > thing goes right and > you get every thing. When you are running a bad > period , even your > best friends would cause some harm to you and you > are physically and > emotionally drained. We can see this through > Astrolgy. > > But the things which comes to my mind again and > again is whether the > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the > results of our > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > Human population has grown from one billion to six > billion in last > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first > time created > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued > from the past. > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them > ?! > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. > In the expanding > universe small particles like our lives are > created with some random > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity > in such > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to > accept the life as > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness > only to go back > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > Inder > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Dear Tanvir, In my view, Hinduism is not a fixed set of ideas. It encompasses a whole lot of various point of views, thoughts,-from one extreme to another. And we can not be sure what is wrong or right, we have to think and come to some conclusions of our own. All the religions of the world can be part of Hinduism as Hindu is no religion .It is way of life. Only with the onslaught of Islamic force, some aspects like Pooja or religiosity etc became more pronounced and prominent. Another reason was Pandits who wanted to exploit masses and gain power and money. They were happy to propagate theory of Karma and its so called corrections mechanisms [Pooja etc]. What I said how would theory of Karma applicable to first time born souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we know this in modern times as we have census now. Dear Rohiniji, I could not follow what you wanted to say. Inder -- In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote: > Life is an experiment. Some feel more comfortable with a manual, > others do not. Even amongst those who feel more comfortable with a > manual, some read it, others do not. Of both these groups, some begin > to rewrite the manual after reading halfway through, others rewrite > even without reading the manual. > > There are many other way to classify the experimentars. The one thing > is constant whether you belong to group A or B or C. No one escapes > out of the class room, until the bell rings! > > RR > > -- , "Tanvir" > <ultimate@s...> wrote: > > of course, before coming to astrology i did not believe in > karma/rebirth too. but it is the only explanation/reason to say that > god is not this cruel and hurting us for nothing. i like to take god > as a kind existance, so i believe in this. > > > > also there is another strong reason to believe in this. all the > things taught by hinduism [that i can verify] are found true by me, > say jyotish, mantras, remedies, yantras, even their old scientific > theories are true, i find. so i have a feeling that their rebirth > theory is also true and this is only the reason that can explain the > jyotish, and why 'innocent' people suffer, and without the rebirth > theory jyotish and the whole system comes up with a serious, > big "missing part"... > > > > regs > > tan > > > > > > > > What can not happen, can never happen. > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > Tanvir Chowdhury > > Cellular: +88 0189407202 > > Mail: lord_narayana@l... > > Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com > > Forum: > > > > - > > Inder > > > > Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:04 PM > > Re: Life is not fair---Tanvir > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > We see how beautifully Astrology depicts major course of our > life. > > We live as per our destiny.In good times every thing goes right > and > > you get every thing. When you are running a bad period , even > your > > best friends would cause some harm to you and you are physically > and > > emotionally drained. We can see this through Astrolgy. > > > > But the things which comes to my mind again and again is whether > the > > theory of Karma [our fortune or misfortune are the results of our > > actions in previous births] is authentic or bogus. > > > > Human population has grown from one billion to six billion in > last > > 100 years. That means about 500 billions first time created > > indivisuals without any merits/demerits accrued from the past. > > How traditional theory of Karma applicable to them ?! > > > > I feel that Divine creates each of us by random. In the expanding > > universe small particles like our lives are created with some > random > > selection. There may be some rules/nature/divinity in such > > randomness but it should not be law of Karma. > > > > Manoshi must be right in saying that we have to accept the life > as > > it comes. Life may be emerging out of nothingness only to go back > > into nothingness after brief earthy sojourn. > > > > Inder > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 If we think for a while then we surely realize that religion itself means a (positive) way of life that encourages us to live a moral and peaceful life for the sake of God, his boons for the good deeds and his punishments for the immoral deeds. Religion means a way of life based on some faiths like god, life after death, heaven, hell, etc. etc. I have listened to this argument for many times that Hinduism is not a religion but rather a way of life. Mostly from my friends and relatives [Muslims] when I describe them some features Hinduism offers that Islam does not. [Jyotish, astrology, modifying karma, mantras etc. etc.] However it is understood that Islam then is even a less of religion and more of lifestyle. There are very less things told in hinduism about normal living style but mostly about prayers, mantras, their gods, their worships etc. compared to Islam. But Islam suggests a complete behaviour of life on each step. Starting from how people's dresses would be, how much women cover theirselves, how to behave people, how to respect others, how to do business, how to transact money, even how to make love with wife and even how to eat and go to toilet. Muslims believe that there are hidden good aspects in each instructions Islam offered and some Western researchers found the same that many rules Islam teachers are scientific and do good to people. That is why Islam is called the complete code of life by western religious researchers. But then with the excuse of lifestyle, Hinduism is no religion and Islam is not even near to it. Two major religions of the world becomes disqualified from being so. LOL~! :-D Actually the more a religion says and teaches, the more rules it has, and the more it becomes difficult to maintain. To me and to anyone knows Islam is the most difficult religion to maintain. So this is simply not true that hinduism is a mere lifestyle. A religion itself is a lifestyle based on some beliefs. Thanks, Tanvir. What can not happen, can never happen. Which is mine, is forever mine. Tanvir Chowdhury Cellular: +88 0189407202 Mail: lord_narayana Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com Forum: - Inder Friday, September 24, 2004 1:32 PM Re: Life is not fair---Tanvir Dear Tanvir, In my view, Hinduism is not a fixed set of ideas. It encompasses a whole lot of various point of views, thoughts,-from one extreme to another. And we can not be sure what is wrong or right, we have to think and come to some conclusions of our own. All the religions of the world can be part of Hinduism as Hindu is no religion .It is way of life. Only with the onslaught of Islamic force, some aspects like Pooja or religiosity etc became more pronounced and prominent. Another reason was Pandits who wanted to exploit masses and gain power and money. They were happy to propagate theory of Karma and its so called corrections mechanisms [Pooja etc]. What I said how would theory of Karma applicable to first time born souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we know this in modern times as we have census now. Dear Rohiniji, I could not follow what you wanted to say. Inder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Tanvir, I do not think any relgion can be complete when it dosent address all the needs of a human being .. be it physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, social, personal or inter personal codes .. so it's not surprising that people interpret it as a way of life ... the real problem comes with the beliefs we fall into without through examination of any religion .. for example a few days ago there was someone saying that vishnu;s dasavatars are simply indicative of theory of evolution ... however according to bhagavatam there are 24 avatars of vishnu .. one including "Hamsa" avatar "vrishaba" avatar and so on ... so where does this interpretation go then??? and owing to how convincing this theory can be to appease scientific mode of thought many people would ascribe to it ... so then we form a belief which is at most partially correct ... do u see where I am coming from? --- Tanvir <ultimate wrote: > If we think for a while then we surely realize that > religion itself means a (positive) way of life that > encourages us to live a moral and peaceful life for > the sake of God, his boons for the good deeds and > his punishments for the immoral deeds. > > Religion means a way of life based on some faiths > like god, life after death, heaven, hell, etc. etc. > > I have listened to this argument for many times that > Hinduism is not a religion but rather a way of life. > Mostly from my friends and relatives [Muslims] when > I describe them some features Hinduism offers that > Islam does not. [Jyotish, astrology, modifying > karma, mantras etc. etc.] > > However it is understood that Islam then is even a > less of religion and more of lifestyle. There are > very less things told in hinduism about normal > living style but mostly about prayers, mantras, > their gods, their worships etc. compared to Islam. > > But Islam suggests a complete behaviour of life on > each step. Starting from how people's dresses would > be, how much women cover theirselves, how to behave > people, how to respect others, how to do business, > how to transact money, even how to make love with > wife and even how to eat and go to toilet. Muslims > believe that there are hidden good aspects in each > instructions Islam offered and some Western > researchers found the same that many rules Islam > teachers are scientific and do good to people. > > That is why Islam is called the complete code of > life by western religious researchers. > > But then with the excuse of lifestyle, Hinduism is > no religion and Islam is not even near to it. > > Two major religions of the world becomes > disqualified from being so. LOL~! :-D > > Actually the more a religion says and teaches, the > more rules it has, and the more it becomes difficult > to maintain. To me and to anyone knows Islam is the > most difficult religion to maintain. > > So this is simply not true that hinduism is a mere > lifestyle. A religion itself is a lifestyle based on > some beliefs. > > Thanks, > Tanvir. > > > > What can not happen, can never happen. > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > Tanvir Chowdhury > Cellular: +88 0189407202 > Mail: lord_narayana > Website: http://www.jyotish-remedies.com > Forum: > > > - > Inder > > Friday, September 24, 2004 1:32 PM > Re: Life is not fair---Tanvir > > > Dear Tanvir, > In my view, Hinduism is not a fixed set of ideas. > It encompasses a > whole lot of various point of views, > thoughts,-from one extreme to > another. And we can not be sure what is wrong or > right, we have to > think and come to some conclusions of our own. > > All the religions of the world can be part of > Hinduism as Hindu is > no religion .It is way of life. Only with the > onslaught of Islamic > force, some aspects like Pooja or religiosity etc > became more > pronounced and prominent. Another reason was > Pandits who wanted to > exploit masses and gain power and money. They were > happy to > propagate theory of Karma and its so called > corrections mechanisms > [Pooja etc]. > > What I said how would theory of Karma applicable > to first time born > souls? And there are plenty and plenty of them, we > know this in > modern times as we have census now. > > Dear Rohiniji, > I could not follow what you wanted to say. > Inder > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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