two cents on research and response to it

[Guest guest]

You are right Tanvir that sometimes it is difficult to make people

see the truth your way. However, there is something all researchers,

particularly in jyotish must always be wary of and remind themselves

often. It is a lonely pursuit, takes a lot of time and so sometimes

the closeness can become a speed-bump. It is like raising a child

from infancy. The need to feel protective does not go away easily,

even when the child becomes bigger than you!

 

If others are not understanding, or resisting, no matter how close to

truth one may perceive themselves to be, the Universe is saying

something to you in a timeless manner. Maybe there is something

missing that others are trying to draw your attention to, sometimes

intuitively even without understanding (Redfieldian sense) or maybe

the information is coming in too fast and they are overwhelmed. No

one denies the power in a volcanic magma, but you cannot cook a

nutritive meal when magma flows, not right away!!

 

My two cents (adjusted for inflation)

 

RR

 

, "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...>

wrote:

> i personally like not to express my views / result of research.

most people do not understand, u do not get the appreciation, and

most of all, there creates a strong debate most of the times, and

sometimes u give enough proofs but can not convince the person. so

you seem an idiot. i have tried to convince many people about the

mere existance and efficacy of astrology / jyotish, with enough

proofs in the steps of life, but always failed. so whats abt the

theories? they will be much difficult to prove, many times. it is

just the person's karma, either to believe in astrology, remedies,

etc etc. it is the will of god to select ppl who will believe

astrology, remedies etc and put their effort in that to receive

blessings. in my opinion the houses 8th and 9th can tell a lot abt

this. 8th is the ultimate truth, and 9th is the blessings and

divinity. they are opposite, but when they both work, u get the full

scope of it.

>

> thanks,

> tanvir.

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

In my humble opinion the word research is vey loosely used in

astrology world.

 

So many people who have not understood the basic concepts even say

that they are doing some research on astrology.

 

For research, we must first fix the area/field of research. Define

the broad parametres and domains. Find out in details the existing

knowledge alraedy existing, and collect the correct data to proceed

in the fixed direction.

 

Here the difficulty may arise as there are several different

systems, ayanmsas and existing theories. So one would easily get

lost in first finding out what to chose from where.

 

For serious researchers, another sort of difficulties as mentioned

by members above arises ie regarding pulling down or discouragements.

 

Shri KS Krishnamurthy who researched and developed KP system also

had to face similar discouragements and ridicules by so called great

pundits/ savants of astrology.

 

In fact Indian astrology suffers from 4th house and 9th house

fixation. We are so fixed to our old texts/wisdom/religiousity of

astrology that we donot want to move to 5th house

developement/expansion or 10th house professionlism. One astrologer

wants to outsmart other astrologer by showing his knowledge of old

texts [4th house] only, not by showing any traits of client

satisfaction or any fresh learning or wisdom.

 

All the fields of knowledge gets advanced and moves forward. But our

astrological gurus are not ready to move forward.

 

Frankly speaking I have not much knowledge of astro research.

Some people working in astrological institutes may have something

different to say in the matter. We should listen to them.

 

Inder

 

Inder

-- In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

wrote:

>

> You are right Tanvir that sometimes it is difficult to make people

> see the truth your way. However, there is something all

researchers,

> particularly in jyotish must always be wary of and remind

themselves

> often. It is a lonely pursuit, takes a lot of time and so

sometimes

> the closeness can become a speed-bump. It is like raising a child

> from infancy. The need to feel protective does not go away easily,

> even when the child becomes bigger than you!

>

> If others are not understanding, or resisting, no matter how close

to

> truth one may perceive themselves to be, the Universe is saying

> something to you in a timeless manner. Maybe there is something

> missing that others are trying to draw your attention to,

sometimes

> intuitively even without understanding (Redfieldian sense) or

maybe

> the information is coming in too fast and they are overwhelmed. No

> one denies the power in a volcanic magma, but you cannot cook a

> nutritive meal when magma flows, not right away!!

>

> My two cents (adjusted for inflation)

>

> RR

>

> , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...>

> wrote:

> > i personally like not to express my views / result of research.

> most people do not understand, u do not get the appreciation, and

> most of all, there creates a strong debate most of the times, and

> sometimes u give enough proofs but can not convince the person. so

> you seem an idiot. i have tried to convince many people about the

> mere existance and efficacy of astrology / jyotish, with enough

> proofs in the steps of life, but always failed. so whats abt the

> theories? they will be much difficult to prove, many times. it is

> just the person's karma, either to believe in astrology, remedies,

> etc etc. it is the will of god to select ppl who will believe

> astrology, remedies etc and put their effort in that to receive

> blessings. in my opinion the houses 8th and 9th can tell a lot abt

> this. 8th is the ultimate truth, and 9th is the blessings and

> divinity. they are opposite, but when they both work, u get the

full

> scope of it.

> >

> > thanks,

> > tanvir.

[Guest guest]

You are right in Jyotish we use the term 'research' in a lose way. But it is for

the *nature of Jyotish* itself, where it is *IMPOSSIBLE* to derive *straight

forward theories* like a standard science - physics, chemistry etc. That is why

it really is not possible to do *that kind of research* like in other scientific

fields.

 

IN REAL, it is the WILL OF NATURE not to disclose this science with 100%

straight forward rules. Indeed it wants some of it, some of the predictions to

be kept in dark. Foolish astrologers become arrogant and claim 100% accuracy.

 

KP is good. Still it does have limitations. In one KP book, I have read four

fold theories of planetary behaviour. I have to say, this is both GREAT and BAD.

Even before buying a single book of KP I was aware of those 4 fold behaviour

rules, from my very experience, I do not know if you will believe me or not.

When I read the KP book, I was a bit amazed of it, since it was mentioned there,

and I did not see much people using those theories before I bought the book. But

I was frustrated to see HOW it was mentioned, in an ORDER in those four

theories, that "First a planet will behave in such such way, then in second

order he will offer result of such such house, then thirdly he will do this"

This is the total destruction of the knowledge. The four fold theory works, but

not *ALL* planet behave in all those 4 ways, and not even the *ORDER* mentioned

there.

 

>From my life I have seen those 4 kinds of behaviours work, [even before I bought

the books] but when I read the book I knew the *order* concept is not true and

not *ALWAYS* a planet will have all those four source of attributes. This is

WRONG in my experience.

 

The KP students will apply those theories in the magical *order* and sometimes

it will work, sometimes it will not.

 

At last, the book was not written by Mr Krishnamurti himself, so I do not know

if *he* taught this order or not. The book is something called "astro secrets

and KP". I have read a few first pages of it.

 

And finally this is again showing that we have no ways than using the term

*research* in the way we are using. God has been kind to get us a way to know

the TRENDS of our future. We should not really be dissatisfied with what we

already got, and disrespect it by saying that it is a lose example of research.

The scientists conducting the *HARD RESEARCH* themselves are doing all the

things as per their charts and might be suffering even in their personal life

and may be coming up as a pretty failure in their personal lives. That is why

the knowledge of Jyotish is the ultimate knowledge and most valueable, whatever

we have is very enough for me.

 

Regs

Tan

 

 

 

What can not happen, can never happen.

Which is mine, is forever mine.

 

http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies

 

-

Inder

Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:45 PM

Re: two cents on research and response to it

 

 

 

 

Dear friends,

In my humble opinion the word research is vey loosely used in

astrology world.

 

So many people who have not understood the basic concepts even say

that they are doing some research on astrology.

 

For research, we must first fix the area/field of research. Define

the broad parametres and domains. Find out in details the existing

knowledge alraedy existing, and collect the correct data to proceed

in the fixed direction.

 

Here the difficulty may arise as there are several different

systems, ayanmsas and existing theories. So one would easily get

lost in first finding out what to chose from where.

 

For serious researchers, another sort of difficulties as mentioned

by members above arises ie regarding pulling down or discouragements.

 

Shri KS Krishnamurthy who researched and developed KP system also

had to face similar discouragements and ridicules by so called great

pundits/ savants of astrology.

 

In fact Indian astrology suffers from 4th house and 9th house

fixation. We are so fixed to our old texts/wisdom/religiousity of

astrology that we donot want to move to 5th house

developement/expansion or 10th house professionlism. One astrologer

wants to outsmart other astrologer by showing his knowledge of old

texts [4th house] only, not by showing any traits of client

satisfaction or any fresh learning or wisdom.

 

All the fields of knowledge gets advanced and moves forward. But our

astrological gurus are not ready to move forward.

 

Frankly speaking I have not much knowledge of astro research.

Some people working in astrological institutes may have something

different to say in the matter. We should listen to them.

 

Inder

 

Inder

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You are right, Inderji. As it stands, claims regarding research in

jyotish and of jyotish being a science (at its current stage of

unfoldment) are both over-touted and loosely-stated but never

justified notions.

 

People do not take the time to test a technique or something like

that and simply pronounce the same to be ineffective. If it were all

so easy or easily proven, either way, how come the accuracy of

astrologers has not really improved over the last many decades,

despite the glib claims of 82% success I quoted in one of my recent

articles on this topic!

 

RR

 

, "Inder"

<indervohra2001> wrote:

>

> Dear friends,

> In my humble opinion the word research is vey loosely used in

> astrology world.

>

> So many people who have not understood the basic concepts even say

> that they are doing some research on astrology.

>

> For research, we must first fix the area/field of research. Define

> the broad parametres and domains. Find out in details the existing

> knowledge alraedy existing, and collect the correct data to proceed

> in the fixed direction.

>

> Here the difficulty may arise as there are several different

> systems, ayanmsas and existing theories. So one would easily get

> lost in first finding out what to chose from where.

>

> For serious researchers, another sort of difficulties as mentioned

> by members above arises ie regarding pulling down or

discouragements.

>

> Shri KS Krishnamurthy who researched and developed KP system also

> had to face similar discouragements and ridicules by so called

great

> pundits/ savants of astrology.

>

> In fact Indian astrology suffers from 4th house and 9th house

> fixation. We are so fixed to our old texts/wisdom/religiousity of

> astrology that we donot want to move to 5th house

> developement/expansion or 10th house professionlism. One astrologer

> wants to outsmart other astrologer by showing his knowledge of old

> texts [4th house] only, not by showing any traits of client

> satisfaction or any fresh learning or wisdom.

>

> All the fields of knowledge gets advanced and moves forward. But

our

> astrological gurus are not ready to move forward.

>

> Frankly speaking I have not much knowledge of astro research.

> Some people working in astrological institutes may have something

> different to say in the matter. We should listen to them.

>

> Inder

>

> Inder

> -- In , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > You are right Tanvir that sometimes it is difficult to make

people

> > see the truth your way. However, there is something all

> researchers,

> > particularly in jyotish must always be wary of and remind

> themselves

> > often. It is a lonely pursuit, takes a lot of time and so

> sometimes

> > the closeness can become a speed-bump. It is like raising a child

> > from infancy. The need to feel protective does not go away

easily,

> > even when the child becomes bigger than you!

> >

> > If others are not understanding, or resisting, no matter how

close

> to

> > truth one may perceive themselves to be, the Universe is saying

> > something to you in a timeless manner. Maybe there is something

> > missing that others are trying to draw your attention to,

> sometimes

> > intuitively even without understanding (Redfieldian sense) or

> maybe

> > the information is coming in too fast and they are overwhelmed.

No

> > one denies the power in a volcanic magma, but you cannot cook a

> > nutritive meal when magma flows, not right away!!

> >

> > My two cents (adjusted for inflation)

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...>

> > wrote:

> > > i personally like not to express my views / result of research.

> > most people do not understand, u do not get the appreciation, and

> > most of all, there creates a strong debate most of the times, and

> > sometimes u give enough proofs but can not convince the person.

so

> > you seem an idiot. i have tried to convince many people about the

> > mere existance and efficacy of astrology / jyotish, with enough

> > proofs in the steps of life, but always failed. so whats abt the

> > theories? they will be much difficult to prove, many times. it is

> > just the person's karma, either to believe in astrology,

remedies,

> > etc etc. it is the will of god to select ppl who will believe

> > astrology, remedies etc and put their effort in that to receive

> > blessings. in my opinion the houses 8th and 9th can tell a lot

abt

> > this. 8th is the ultimate truth, and 9th is the blessings and

> > divinity. they are opposite, but when they both work, u get the

> full

> > scope of it.

> > >

> > > thanks,

> > > tanvir.

[Guest guest]

Tanvir,

 

If you get a chance and if possible please read the cyclostyled

readers on nakshatra astrology written by Shri Gopal Krishna

Rao 'Meena'. These predate KP by a few decades if I am not mistaken.

You may be surprised by what Meena revealed!

 

RR

 

 

 

, "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...>

wrote:

> You are right in Jyotish we use the term 'research' in a lose way.

But it is for the *nature of Jyotish* itself, where it is

*IMPOSSIBLE* to derive *straight forward theories* like a standard

science - physics, chemistry etc. That is why it really is not

possible to do *that kind of research* like in other scientific

fields.

>

> IN REAL, it is the WILL OF NATURE not to disclose this science with

100% straight forward rules. Indeed it wants some of it, some of the

predictions to be kept in dark. Foolish astrologers become arrogant

and claim 100% accuracy.

>

> KP is good. Still it does have limitations. In one KP book, I have

read four fold theories of planetary behaviour. I have to say, this

is both GREAT and BAD. Even before buying a single book of KP I was

aware of those 4 fold behaviour rules, from my very experience, I do

not know if you will believe me or not. When I read the KP book, I

was a bit amazed of it, since it was mentioned there, and I did not

see much people using those theories before I bought the book. But I

was frustrated to see HOW it was mentioned, in an ORDER in those four

theories, that "First a planet will behave in such such way, then in

second order he will offer result of such such house, then thirdly he

will do this" This is the total destruction of the knowledge. The

four fold theory works, but not *ALL* planet behave in all those 4

ways, and not even the *ORDER* mentioned there.

>

> From my life I have seen those 4 kinds of behaviours work, [even

before I bought the books] but when I read the book I knew the

*order* concept is not true and not *ALWAYS* a planet will have all

those four source of attributes. This is WRONG in my experience.

>

> The KP students will apply those theories in the magical *order*

and sometimes it will work, sometimes it will not.

>

> At last, the book was not written by Mr Krishnamurti himself, so I

do not know if *he* taught this order or not. The book is something

called "astro secrets and KP". I have read a few first pages of it.

>

> And finally this is again showing that we have no ways than using

the term *research* in the way we are using. God has been kind to get

us a way to know the TRENDS of our future. We should not really be

dissatisfied with what we already got, and disrespect it by saying

that it is a lose example of research. The scientists conducting the

*HARD RESEARCH* themselves are doing all the things as per their

charts and might be suffering even in their personal life and may be

coming up as a pretty failure in their personal lives. That is why

the knowledge of Jyotish is the ultimate knowledge and most

valueable, whatever we have is very enough for me.

>

> Regs

> Tan

>

>

>

> What can not happen, can never happen.

> Which is mine, is forever mine.

>

> http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

> Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving

remedies

>

> -

> Inder

>

> Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:45 PM

> Re: two cents on research and response to it

>

>

>

>

> Dear friends,

> In my humble opinion the word research is vey loosely used in

> astrology world.

>

> So many people who have not understood the basic concepts even

say

> that they are doing some research on astrology.

>

> For research, we must first fix the area/field of research.

Define

> the broad parametres and domains. Find out in details the

existing

> knowledge alraedy existing, and collect the correct data to

proceed

> in the fixed direction.

>

> Here the difficulty may arise as there are several different

> systems, ayanmsas and existing theories. So one would easily get

> lost in first finding out what to chose from where.

>

> For serious researchers, another sort of difficulties as

mentioned

> by members above arises ie regarding pulling down or

discouragements.

>

> Shri KS Krishnamurthy who researched and developed KP system also

> had to face similar discouragements and ridicules by so called

great

> pundits/ savants of astrology.

>

> In fact Indian astrology suffers from 4th house and 9th house

> fixation. We are so fixed to our old texts/wisdom/religiousity of

> astrology that we donot want to move to 5th house

> developement/expansion or 10th house professionlism. One

astrologer

> wants to outsmart other astrologer by showing his knowledge of

old

> texts [4th house] only, not by showing any traits of client

> satisfaction or any fresh learning or wisdom.

>

> All the fields of knowledge gets advanced and moves forward. But

our

> astrological gurus are not ready to move forward.

>

> Frankly speaking I have not much knowledge of astro research.

> Some people working in astrological institutes may have something

> different to say in the matter. We should listen to them.

>

> Inder

>

> Inder

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

thanks rohini ji.

 

so the book's name is "Cyclostyled Readers" or what? Any name of the published

or where can I get it etc.

 

Regs

Tan

 

 

 

What can not happen, can never happen.

Which is mine, is forever mine.

 

http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies

 

-

rohiniranjan

Friday, October 15, 2004 4:34 AM

Re: two cents on research and response to it

 

 

 

 

Tanvir,

 

If you get a chance and if possible please read the cyclostyled

readers on nakshatra astrology written by Shri Gopal Krishna

Rao 'Meena'. These predate KP by a few decades if I am not mistaken.

You may be surprised by what Meena revealed!

 

RR

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I sense scepticism, and doubt, more openly now, just as I would

expect!

 

Which is fine -- I am sure you are smart enough to get to the bottom

of it, and figure out or find out the details -- unless you are

already convinced that you know the truth :-)

 

RR

 

, "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...>

wrote:

> thanks rohini ji.

>

> so the book's name is "Cyclostyled Readers" or what? Any name of

the published or where can I get it etc.

>

> Regs

> Tan

>

>

>

> What can not happen, can never happen.

> Which is mine, is forever mine.

>

> http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

> Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving

remedies

>

> -

> rohiniranjan

>

> Friday, October 15, 2004 4:34 AM

> Re: two cents on research and response to it

>

>

>

>

> Tanvir,

>

> If you get a chance and if possible please read the cyclostyled

> readers on nakshatra astrology written by Shri Gopal Krishna

> Rao 'Meena'. These predate KP by a few decades if I am not

mistaken.

> You may be surprised by what Meena revealed!

>

> RR

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rohiniji,

Could you kindly tell briefly what Sh Meena wrote.

I am not able to get the book.

 

Althogh I am not qualified enough to write about Sh KSK, but I will

give some details regarding the areas covered by Sh KSK. These are

vast.

Inder

 

 

-- In , "Tanvir" <ultimate@s...>

wrote:

> thanks rohini ji.

>

> so the book's name is "Cyclostyled Readers" or what? Any name of

the published or where can I get it etc.

>

> Regs

> Tan

>

>

>

> What can not happen, can never happen.

> Which is mine, is forever mine.

>

> http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

> Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving

remedies

>

> -

> rohiniranjan

>

> Friday, October 15, 2004 4:34 AM

> Re: two cents on research and response to it

>

>

>

>

> Tanvir,

>

> If you get a chance and if possible please read the cyclostyled

> readers on nakshatra astrology written by Shri Gopal Krishna

> Rao 'Meena'. These predate KP by a few decades if I am not

mistaken.

> You may be surprised by what Meena revealed!

>

> RR

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rohini Ji, Indeed I am not sure what you mean !

 

Regs

Tan

 

 

 

What can not happen, can never happen.

Which is mine, is forever mine.

 

http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology (Jyotish)

Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem solving remedies

 

 

 

-

rohiniranjan

Saturday, October 16, 2004 7:35 AM

Re: two cents on research and response to it

 

 

 

 

I sense scepticism, and doubt, more openly now, just as I would

expect!

 

Which is fine -- I am sure you are smart enough to get to the bottom

of it, and figure out or find out the details -- unless you are

already convinced that you know the truth :-)

 

RR