Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Dear Shad, Your conviction in Lord Shiva shall protect you and happy to see that you are attracted to vedic line of thought. BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, indirectly points at Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity and power, which is not true. Whatever god or demi-god of whichever religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the effect is all the same. I can show you a number of cases like your granny's case even in India and outside, where people got saved by their belief in JESUS or ALLAH or BUDDHA or whomever they believed to get help from and never knew Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra(MMM). It is the REALIZATION of self which brings about a change. Mantra- Yantra-Tantra are all MATERIALISTIC in nature and are tools for the DHARMA-ARTHA-KAMA and are VEDIC in their course. While DHYAANA or meditation is a VEDANTA or YOGIC way and NON-MATERIALISTIC and is a tool for MOKSHA. Why do you think VEDAS which describe millions of Mantras of millions of gods end as VEDANTA which says there is only one UNIQUE and TRUE SUPREME? Perhaps your granny had Mantra-sidhi yoga in her chart which led her to learn MMM through casette, thats really fine! If I were in your place, I would have given her a casette with chantings of 'Parable of Lost Sheep' from The Holy Bible (St. Luke Chap XV 1-19) to reassure that her 80 year old conviction of JESUS would still protect her. If anyone differs, it means MMM is more powerful than prayers to Jesus, which contradicts Vedantic theories supporting MMM! yours humbly, KAD , "Shad" <waterpowers> wrote: > I give you a small example: > > Three years ago I could see in real life how this > mantra saves lifes at my very own Grandmother. > She was about to die being in hospital, experiencing > her third lung-infection, at age of 80. Most people > die at the first lung infection in this age, she had > the third. > > When she saw death coming she asked her daughter, my > aunt, to take me there to see my Grandma, she wanted > to talk to me and ask me something. > > My aunt said that Grandma was very afraid of dying, > and all the days she had been praying to Jesus to save > her life, but the situation became worse and worse. > > My Grandma then told me that Jesus wouldn't hear er > prayers anymore, as she requested Him to save her > life. She then said 'maybe your Hindu-God is more > merciful?' and save her life. If I knew a prayer for > her. > > So I was in a desperate situation - what shall I do?! > Tell her Krishna would save her life if she chanted > harekrishna mantra? That would have been a lie. > So I decided to give her the Mahamrityunjaya mantra, > as in Vedas it is said it can save life - so I > wouldn't lie at her. But honestly I didn't anymore > believe she still had a chance. Not that I doubted in > the mantra, but it was really late for her. Only a > miracle could save her. If she had asked earlier... > > So I gave her a tape with the chants of the mantra and > the printed mantra. My aunt learned how to chant the > mantra, as she was all day with her mother and could > teach her. > > This was on a Monday, and the doctors had suggested to > prepare the funeral for the Sunday following. > Everything was prepared. After three days my > Grandmother left the hospital. And the doctor said, he > doesn't understand, but she had a better blood than he > does. > > On Sunday she visit the morning mess at church, and > the priest was shocked to see her actually, as he had > already taken the money for her very funeral. > > She lived a year more. Never before in her life she > had heard about Lord Siva or believed in any other God > than her Jesus and His Mother Mary. > > But facing death she chanted with ful heart, even > being unconscious, she continued repeating the mantra. > Even the doctors told me words of the mantra as they > again and again heard it from her. > > One could tell us Hindus it is our belief, a placebo > effect, but my Grandma never knew about Siva or the > mantras praising Him. She only knew I was a 'Krishna > devotee'. And actually never liked the fact that I had > turned away from Christianity 20 years ago. > > Siva indeed is merciful! > > > The naive belief of there being critical number of > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive change in this > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and despite all this > > influx of freely available religious thought, mantras, tantras and > > all the rest has simply not worked. > > How do you know this? And what would have happened, if people on > this planet wouldn't worship God and wouldn't praise Him with all > these mantras? > Maybe things would look even worse. > > I can assure you we would have much bigger hell on Earth, if there > weren't pious people being naive enough to chant the mantras and > prayers...! > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are merely symbols, > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as religious idols must > > or gemstones must before they come alive and can do what they are > > capable of. > > I can assure you that some mantras are non-different from God > Himself. The name of Lord Siva is non-different from the Lord > Himself. All energies are in this name, which also counts for other > Vishnu-tattvas, Siva-tattvas, Shakti-tattvas, and other expansions > of God and His names. > > There may be many idiots and cynics that claim different, but the > evidence will only be there for you, once you have tried it for > yourself! Everybody gotta find out alone, nobody can do this for > you. > > !om namah sivaya! > > Chant this, and your life will become more auspicious! > > Kind regards, > Shad > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > > > Curiously, after the invent of internet (some call it kali awatar > or > > kalki awataar), mantras have suddenly become thousand folds more > > accessible. There are webpages after webpages with information > about > > it, mantra recordings galore, in voice (no more distortion of > > pronounciation getting in the way of the dedicated sadhak) and all > > this information has only become so widely available in the last > ten > > years. Seekers have flocked to the fountain in hoardes, throngs of > > the thirsty travellers finally able to drink straight from the > source > > or better still, sources! More the merrier!! > > > > Yet in the last ten years, if one looks back, there have been more > > illnesses, more wars, more terrorism, more natural calamities and > > disasters. The naive belief of there being critical number of > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive change in this > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and despite all this > influx > > of freely available religious thought, mantras, tantras and all > the > > rest has simply not worked. > > > > Something is missing, what? > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are merely symbols, > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as religious idols must > or > > gemstones must before they come alive and can do what they are > > capable of. > > > > Any light you can shine on the above? > > > > Thanks > > > > RR > > > > , "Shad" <waterpowers> > > wrote: > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > Mantra has more power as the nuclear-bomb! > > > best regards > > > shad > > > > > > "om namaha sivaya" > > > > > > > > > Teachings of Babaji: Mantra Bomb > > > 20 APRIL 1980 > > > > > > Note: After the evening aarati, Babaji spoke at length about the > > > power of the > > > mantra Om Namah Shivai. Some of his talk went as follows: > > > > > > "I am happy that you are all on the way of religion. I am > > > encouraged. As in past > > > times, in certain parts of Europe there was a sincere adoration > of > > > fire. > > > > > > Babaji then said "More than half of the people are oriented > towards > > > destruction" > > > and went on to relate a story of how, at a time in the past > > > (Mahabharata times), > > > all the resources of Ravana's kingdom were used for the creation > of > > > a bomb so > > > large and powerful that it was even more powerful than those we > > have > > > today. Then > > > some positive and creative forces got together and created > > something > > > that would > > > be even more powerful than this enormous destructive bomb. They > > > created the > > > mantra bomb. > > > > > > "The mantra is still the only way." > > > > > > Babaji then gave two examples of survival and said that those > who > > > use the mantra > > > will survive in the same way. > > > > > > First Example: When Lord Krishna was at a battle where > everything > > > was on fire, a > > > locust came to pray at His feet. Krishna then placed His helmet > > over > > > the locust. > > > Everything on the field was burned and killed, except the > locust, > > > which survived > > > under Lord Krishna's helmet. > > > > > > Second Example: In a flour mill, all of the grain is ground up, > > just > > > like people > > > are in the destructive process. A few grains escape because they > > are > > > near the > > > center pole and fall down and away from the grinding wheel. > > > > > > "I am happy that you are here. You should not waste your time > while > > > you are > > > here. Have faith." > > > > > > > > > > > > Do what you Love. > > > Live where you Love. > > > Pray where you Love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Does this aphorism sum things up ? Faith is to Believe what you do not see The result of which is: you see what you believed surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv wrote: Arvind, The starting point of belief is always experience .. if u practice a mantra u will experience weather u believe in it or not .. belief then will add to the strength subsequently ! --- ArvindRaj <rajendracholan4u wrote: > My humble opinion is : > It is not the God > It is not the Mantra > It is one's belief that makes wishes come true. > > If you chant Mritunjaya Mantra, thinking it could > please Jesus, and believe strongly that all your > worries can be solved - ofcourse it will be solved. > > Belief comes first, then comes all other things - > like radiations generated by mantras etc...etc... > > Regards > Arvind > > > Shad <waterpowers wrote: > > Dear KAD, pranam! > > thank you for your reply. You are a real pundit and > it is nice you > again and again enlighten uswith your knowledge. > > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, > indirectly points > > at Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > It might seem indirectly in my message, which was > not my intention. > My intention was to inspire people to chant mantras > and pray. > > I see in different religions spiritual diversity and > unity, which is > the beauty in these processes. > > Why Siva actually listened to my Grandma's prayers, > and Jesus > didn't - I don't know. And it is not important. > God has some many expansions and so many servant, it > doesn't really > matter in the end who answer to your prayers. > > > Whatever god or demi-god of whichever > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > effect is all the same. > > I cannot really agree with you here. > All shastra, such as vedanta and siddhanta say that > we should not > worship demi-God equal as incarnations of the > vishnu-tattva or siva- > tattva. > If one puts demi-Gods on the same level as God, such > as Krishna or > Siva, and say, no matter, the result will be same > the same if you > pray to the demi-God, you make offenses and one DOES > NOT receive the > same results. > > Demi-Gods give material results. One can get better > karma, > prosperity and other material gain. They are > jiva-tattva, means a > soul as we human are, only they achieved a position > according to > their god karma on heavenly planets. Once their good > karma is 'work > off' they will take birth again at a place like > Earth. > > God, vishnu-tattva or siva-tattva etc give > transcendental results, > beyond karma and guna. If one worships them, one can > come to the > spiritual sky like brahmajyoti, vaikunthas, > siva-loka or other > transcendental planets which are outside of our > material universe > and creation. > > All demi-God are subordinated to God, without > permission of the Lord > they cannot do anything. > > So, please, you as pundit, who really is scholared > in shastra as I > can see from your postings, don't teach the people > demi-God worship > and God worship is equal. > > Somebody might take that serious and you would > receive great > spiritual damage. > > Best regards, > Shad > > > , "kadrudra" > <kadrudra> > wrote: > > > > Dear Shad, > > > > Your conviction in Lord Shiva shall protect you > and happy to see > that > > you are attracted to vedic line of thought. > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, > indirectly points > at > > Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > and power, which is not true. Whatever god or > demi-god of > whichever > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > effect is all the same. I can show you a number of > cases like your > > granny's case even in India and outside, where > > people got saved by their belief in JESUS or ALLAH > or BUDDHA or > > whomever they believed to get help from and never > knew > > Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra(MMM). > > > > It is the REALIZATION of self which brings about a > change. Mantra- > > Yantra-Tantra are all MATERIALISTIC in nature and > are > > tools for the DHARMA-ARTHA-KAMA and are VEDIC in > their course. > While > > DHYAANA or meditation is a VEDANTA or YOGIC way > and > > NON-MATERIALISTIC and is a tool for MOKSHA. Why do > you think VEDAS > > which describe millions of Mantras of millions of > gods > > end as VEDANTA which says there is only one UNIQUE > and TRUE > SUPREME? > > > > Perhaps your granny had Mantra-sidhi yoga in her > chart which led > her > > to learn MMM through casette, thats really fine! > > If I were in your place, I would have given her a > casette with > > chantings of 'Parable of Lost Sheep' from The Holy > Bible (St. Luke > > Chap XV 1-19) > > to reassure that her 80 year old conviction of > JESUS would still > > protect her. If anyone differs, it means MMM is > more > > powerful than prayers to Jesus, which contradicts > Vedantic > theories > > supporting MMM! > > > > yours humbly, > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Shad" > <waterpowers> > > wrote: > > > > > I give you a small example: > > > > > > Three years ago I could see in real life how > this > > > mantra saves lifes at my very own Grandmother. > > > She was about to die being in hospital, > experiencing > > > her third lung-infection, at age of 80. Most > people > > > die at the first lung infection in this age, she > had > > > the third. > > > > > > When she saw death coming she asked her > daughter, my > > > aunt, to take me there to see my Grandma, she > wanted > > > to talk to me and ask me something. > > > > > > My aunt said that Grandma was very afraid of > dying, > > > and all the days she had been praying to Jesus > to save > > > her life, but the situation became worse and > worse. > === message truncated === ~! 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Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 My God ! My views are interpreted in wrong ways... I did not try to project or say "There is No God" or Mantras are useless... I just want to emphasis that If you try to please God and do it whole heartedly (Not even a small hesitation or doubt) - That would yield you greater results... Regards Arvind Shad <waterpowers wrote: Dear Arvind, > It is not the God No there is a God that answers our prayers. The believe is really very important, you are right, but the mercy of God is what decides in the end, not only our believe and mental state. It is not that we can make a deal 'we believe in you, God, and you gotta save our lifes', or even worse since we strongly believe we will NOT die, we in fact will not die. That is illusion. Believing or not, tomorrow morning the sun will rise. I may not believe I could die one day, but it anyway will happen. What you say means, your belief is above God - but this shall not happen, we must remain humble, and know we depend on the mercy of God. > It is not the Mantra In vedas it is written, for example, the name of Lord Vishnu is non- different from Vishnu Himself. So, if you don't want to believe in vedas, which scriptures do you acknowledge? > If you chant Mritunjaya Mantra, thinking it could please Jesus, > and believe strongly that all your worries can be solved - > ofcourse it will be solved. No, with the Mrityunjaya mantra you worship a specific deity of Lord Siva, not Jesus Christ. And it is NOT the same. Jesus Christ would be glad to see you worship the God, His father, because this is what He taught us all the time. So, if you want to please Jesus you must worship Him, with the prayers He gave you and follow His teachings. I love Jesus too. Kind regards, Shad , ArvindRaj <rajendracholan4u> wrote: > My humble opinion is : > It is not the God > It is not the Mantra > It is one's belief that makes wishes come true. > > If you chant Mritunjaya Mantra, thinking it could please Jesus, and believe strongly that all your worries can be solved - ofcourse it will be solved. > > Belief comes first, then comes all other things - like radiations generated by mantras etc...etc... > > Regards > Arvind > > > Shad <waterpowers> wrote: > > Dear KAD, pranam! > > thank you for your reply. You are a real pundit and it is nice you > again and again enlighten uswith your knowledge. > > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, indirectly points > > at Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > It might seem indirectly in my message, which was not my intention. > My intention was to inspire people to chant mantras and pray. > > I see in different religions spiritual diversity and unity, which is > the beauty in these processes. > > Why Siva actually listened to my Grandma's prayers, and Jesus > didn't - I don't know. And it is not important. > God has some many expansions and so many servant, it doesn't really > matter in the end who answer to your prayers. > > > Whatever god or demi-god of whichever > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > effect is all the same. > > I cannot really agree with you here. > All shastra, such as vedanta and siddhanta say that we should not > worship demi-God equal as incarnations of the vishnu-tattva or siva- > tattva. > If one puts demi-Gods on the same level as God, such as Krishna or > Siva, and say, no matter, the result will be same the same if you > pray to the demi-God, you make offenses and one DOES NOT receive the > same results. > > Demi-Gods give material results. One can get better karma, > prosperity and other material gain. They are jiva-tattva, means a > soul as we human are, only they achieved a position according to > their god karma on heavenly planets. Once their good karma is 'work > off' they will take birth again at a place like Earth. > > God, vishnu-tattva or siva-tattva etc give transcendental results, > beyond karma and guna. If one worships them, one can come to the > spiritual sky like brahmajyoti, vaikunthas, siva-loka or other > transcendental planets which are outside of our material universe > and creation. > > All demi-God are subordinated to God, without permission of the Lord > they cannot do anything. > > So, please, you as pundit, who really is scholared in shastra as I > can see from your postings, don't teach the people demi-God worship > and God worship is equal. > > Somebody might take that serious and you would receive great > spiritual damage. > > Best regards, > Shad > > > , "kadrudra" <kadrudra> > wrote: > > > > Dear Shad, > > > > Your conviction in Lord Shiva shall protect you and happy to see > that > > you are attracted to vedic line of thought. > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, indirectly points > at > > Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > and power, which is not true. Whatever god or demi-god of > whichever > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > effect is all the same. I can show you a number of cases like your > > granny's case even in India and outside, where > > people got saved by their belief in JESUS or ALLAH or BUDDHA or > > whomever they believed to get help from and never knew > > Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra(MMM). > > > > It is the REALIZATION of self which brings about a change. Mantra- > > Yantra-Tantra are all MATERIALISTIC in nature and are > > tools for the DHARMA-ARTHA-KAMA and are VEDIC in their course. > While > > DHYAANA or meditation is a VEDANTA or YOGIC way and > > NON-MATERIALISTIC and is a tool for MOKSHA. Why do you think VEDAS > > which describe millions of Mantras of millions of gods > > end as VEDANTA which says there is only one UNIQUE and TRUE > SUPREME? > > > > Perhaps your granny had Mantra-sidhi yoga in her chart which led > her > > to learn MMM through casette, thats really fine! > > If I were in your place, I would have given her a casette with > > chantings of 'Parable of Lost Sheep' from The Holy Bible (St. Luke > > Chap XV 1-19) > > to reassure that her 80 year old conviction of JESUS would still > > protect her. If anyone differs, it means MMM is more > > powerful than prayers to Jesus, which contradicts Vedantic > theories > > supporting MMM! > > > > yours humbly, > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Shad" <waterpowers> > > wrote: > > > > > I give you a small example: > > > > > > Three years ago I could see in real life how this > > > mantra saves lifes at my very own Grandmother. > > > She was about to die being in hospital, experiencing > > > her third lung-infection, at age of 80. Most people > > > die at the first lung infection in this age, she had > > > the third. > > > > > > When she saw death coming she asked her daughter, my > > > aunt, to take me there to see my Grandma, she wanted > > > to talk to me and ask me something. > > > > > > My aunt said that Grandma was very afraid of dying, > > > and all the days she had been praying to Jesus to save > > > her life, but the situation became worse and worse. > > > > > > My Grandma then told me that Jesus wouldn't hear er > > > prayers anymore, as she requested Him to save her > > > life. She then said 'maybe your Hindu-God is more > > > merciful?' and save her life. If I knew a prayer for > > > her. > > > > > > So I was in a desperate situation - what shall I do?! > > > Tell her Krishna would save her life if she chanted > > > harekrishna mantra? That would have been a lie. > > > So I decided to give her the Mahamrityunjaya mantra, > > > as in Vedas it is said it can save life - so I > > > wouldn't lie at her. But honestly I didn't anymore > > > believe she still had a chance. Not that I doubted in > > > the mantra, but it was really late for her. Only a > > > miracle could save her. If she had asked earlier... > > > > > > So I gave her a tape with the chants of the mantra and > > > the printed mantra. My aunt learned how to chant the > > > mantra, as she was all day with her mother and could > > > teach her. > > > > > > This was on a Monday, and the doctors had suggested to > > > prepare the funeral for the Sunday following. > > > Everything was prepared. After three days my > > > Grandmother left the hospital. And the doctor said, he > > > doesn't understand, but she had a better blood than he > > > does. > > > > > > On Sunday she visit the morning mess at church, and > > > the priest was shocked to see her actually, as he had > > > already taken the money for her very funeral. > > > > > > She lived a year more. Never before in her life she > > > had heard about Lord Siva or believed in any other God > > > than her Jesus and His Mother Mary. > > > > > > But facing death she chanted with ful heart, even > > > being unconscious, she continued repeating the mantra. > > > Even the doctors told me words of the mantra as they > > > again and again heard it from her. > > > > > > One could tell us Hindus it is our belief, a placebo > > > effect, but my Grandma never knew about Siva or the > > > mantras praising Him. She only knew I was a 'Krishna > > > devotee'. And actually never liked the fact that I had > > > turned away from Christianity 20 years ago. > > > > > > Siva indeed is merciful! > > > > > > > The naive belief of there being critical number of > > > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive change in > this > > > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and despite all this > > > > influx of freely available religious thought, mantras, tantras > > and > > > > all the rest has simply not worked. > > > > > > How do you know this? And what would have happened, if people on > > > this planet wouldn't worship God and wouldn't praise Him with > all > > > these mantras? > > > Maybe things would look even worse. > > > > > > I can assure you we would have much bigger hell on Earth, if > there > > > weren't pious people being naive enough to chant the mantras and > > > prayers...! > > > > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are merely > symbols, > > > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as religious idols > > must > > > > or gemstones must before they come alive and can do what they > are > > > > capable of. > > > > > > I can assure you that some mantras are non-different from God > > > Himself. The name of Lord Siva is non-different from the Lord > > > Himself. All energies are in this name, which also counts for > other > > > Vishnu-tattvas, Siva-tattvas, Shakti-tattvas, and other > expansions > > > of God and His names. > > > > > > There may be many idiots and cynics that claim different, but > the > > > evidence will only be there for you, once you have tried it for > > > yourself! Everybody gotta find out alone, nobody can do this for > > > you. > > > > > > !om namah sivaya! > > > > > > Chant this, and your life will become more auspicious! > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > Shad > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Curiously, after the invent of internet (some call it kali > awatar > > > or > > > > kalki awataar), mantras have suddenly become thousand folds > more > > > > accessible. There are webpages after webpages with information > > > about > > > > it, mantra recordings galore, in voice (no more distortion of > > > > pronounciation getting in the way of the dedicated sadhak) and > > all > > > > this information has only become so widely available in the > last > > > ten > > > > years. Seekers have flocked to the fountain in hoardes, > throngs > > of > > > > the thirsty travellers finally able to drink straight from the > > > source > > > > or better still, sources! More the merrier!! > > > > > > > > Yet in the last ten years, if one looks back, there have been > > more > > > > illnesses, more wars, more terrorism, more natural calamities > and > > > > disasters. The naive belief of there being critical number of > > > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive change in > this > > > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and despite all this > > > influx > > > > of freely available religious thought, mantras, tantras and > all > > > the > > > > rest has simply not worked. > > > > > > > > Something is missing, what? > > > > > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are merely > symbols, > > > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as religious idols > > must > > > or > > > > gemstones must before they come alive and can do what they are > > > > capable of. > > > > > > > > Any light you can shine on the above? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "Shad" > > <waterpowers> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > > > > > Mantra has more power as the nuclear-bomb! > > > > > best regards > > > > > shad > > > > > > > > > > "om namaha sivaya" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Teachings of Babaji: Mantra Bomb > > > > > 20 APRIL 1980 > > > > > > > > > > Note: After the evening aarati, Babaji spoke at length about > > the > > > > > power of the > > > > > mantra Om Namah Shivai. Some of his talk went as follows: > > > > > > > > > > "I am happy that you are all on the way of religion. I am > > > > > encouraged. As in past > > > > > times, in certain parts of Europe there was a sincere > adoration > > > of > > > > > fire. > > > > > > > > > > Babaji then said "More than half of the people are oriented > > > towards > > > > > destruction" > > > > > and went on to relate a story of how, at a time in the past > > > > > (Mahabharata times), > > > > > all the resources of Ravana's kingdom were used for the > > creation > > > of > > > > > a bomb so > > > > > large and powerful that it was even more powerful than those > we > > > > have > > > > > today. Then > > > > > some positive and creative forces got together and created > > > > something > > > > > that would > > > > > be even more powerful than this enormous destructive bomb. > They > > > > > created the > > > > > mantra bomb. > > > > > > > > > > "The mantra is still the only way." > > > > > > > > > > Babaji then gave two examples of survival and said that > those > > > who > > > > > use the mantra > > > > > will survive in the same way. > > > > > > > > > > First Example: When Lord Krishna was at a battle where > > > everything > > > > > was on fire, a > > > > > locust came to pray at His feet. Krishna then placed His > helmet > > > > over > > > > > the locust. > > > > > Everything on the field was burned and killed, except the > > > locust, > > > > > which survived > > > > > under Lord Krishna's helmet. > > > > > > > > > > Second Example: In a flour mill, all of the grain is ground > up, > > > > just > > > > > like people > > > > > are in the destructive process. A few grains escape because > > they > > > > are > > > > > near the > > > > > center pole and fall down and away from the grinding wheel. > > > > > > > > > > "I am happy that you are here. You should not waste your > time > > > while > > > > > you are > > > > > here. Have faith." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do what you Love. > > > > > Live where you Love. > > > > > Pray where you Love. > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Sponsor > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada / Read only the mail you want - Mail SpamGuard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Pranam, > I was curious to ask you ... "Om namah shivaya" donset need initiation? If you can get a Priest or Sadhu-Guru which you trust, take initation, your are then better connected and get more benefit from chanting. >I am a huge fan of lord shiva ... GREAT! >but > I stop repeating this mantra because I don't know the > rules that go with it .. are you aware of any? here is a good website about Siva -worship : http://www.babaji.net Don't be afraid and please chant again. The most important thing is BHAKTI Love to Siva. best regards Shad "om namaha Sivaya" > > --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote: > > > > > Dear Rohiniranjan, > > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are > > merely symbols, > > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as > > religious idols must > > or > > > gemstones must before they come alive and can do > > what they are > > > capable of. > > > > > > Any light you can shine on the above? > > > > I give you a small example: > > > > Three years ago I could see in real life how this > > mantra saves lifes at my very own Grandmother. > > She was about to die being in hospital, experiencing > > her third lung-infection, at age of 80. Most people > > die at the first lung infection in this age, she had > > the third. > > > > When she saw death coming she asked her daughter, my > > aunt, to take me there to see my Grandma, she wanted > > to talk to me and ask me something. > > > > My aunt said that Grandma was very afraid of dying, > > and all the days she had been praying to Jesus to > > save > > her life, but the situation became worse and worse. > > > > My Grandma then told me that Jesus wouldn't hear er > > prayers anymore, as she requested Him to save her > > life. She then said 'maybe your Hindu-God is more > > merciful?' and save her life. If I knew a prayer for > > her. > > > > So I was in a desperate situation - what shall I > > do?! > > Tell her Krishna would save her life if she chanted > > harekrishna mantra? That would have been a lie. > > So I decided to give her the Mahamrityunjaya mantra, > > as in Vedas it is said it can save life - so I > > wouldn't lie at her. But honestly I didn't anymore > > believe she still had a chance. Not that I doubted > > in > > the mantra, but it was really late for her. Only a > > miracle could save her. If she had asked earlier... > > > > So I gave her a tape with the chants of the mantra > > and > > the printed mantra. My aunt learned how to chant the > > mantra, as she was all day with her mother and could > > teach her. > > > > This was on a Monday, and the doctors had suggested > > to > > prepare the funeral for the Sunday following. > > Everything was prepared. After three days my > > Grandmother left the hospital. And the doctor said, > > he > > doesn't understand, but she had a better blood than > > he > > does. > > > > On Sunday she visit the morning mess at church, and > > the priest was shocked to see her actually, as he > > had > > already taken the money for her very funeral. > > > > She lived a year more. Never before in her life she > > had heard about Lord Siva or believed in any other > > God > > than her Jesus and His Mother Mary. > > > > But facing death she chanted with ful heart, even > > being unconscious, she continued repeating the > > mantra. > > Even the doctors told me words of the mantra as they > > again and again heard it from her. > > > > One could tell us Hindus it is our belief, a placebo > > effect, but my Grandma never knew about Siva or the > > mantras praising Him. She only knew I was a 'Krishna > > devotee'. And actually never liked the fact that I > > had > > turned away from Christianity 20 years ago. > > > > Siva indeed is merciful! > > > > > The naive belief of there being critical number of > > > > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive > > change in this > > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and > > despite all this > > > influx of freely available religious thought, > > mantras, tantras and > > > all the rest has simply not worked. > > > > How do you know this? And what would have happened, > > if people on > > this planet wouldn't worship God and wouldn't praise > > Him with all > > these mantras? > > Maybe things would look even worse. > > > > I can assure you we would have much bigger hell on > > Earth, if there > > weren't pious people being naive enough to chant the > > mantras and > > prayers...! > > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are > > merely symbols, > > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as > > religious idols must > > > or gemstones must before they come alive and can > > do what they are > > > capable of. > > > > I can assure you that some mantras are non-different > > from God > > Himself. The name of Lord Siva is non-different from > > the Lord > > Himself. All energies are in this name, which also > > counts for other > > Vishnu-tattvas, Siva-tattvas, Shakti-tattvas, and > > other expansions > > of God and His names. > > > > There may be many idiots and cynics that claim > > different, but the > > evidence will only be there for you, once you have > > tried it for > > yourself! Everybody gotta find out alone, nobody can > > do this for > > you. > > > > !om namah sivaya! > > > > Chant this, and your life will become more > > auspicious! > > > > Kind regards, > > Shad > > > > > > , > > "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Curiously, after the invent of internet (some call > > it kali awatar > > or > > > kalki awataar), mantras have suddenly become > > thousand folds more > > > accessible. There are webpages after webpages with > > information > > about > > > it, mantra recordings galore, in voice (no more > > distortion of > > > pronounciation getting in the way of the dedicated > > sadhak) and all > > > this information has only become so widely > > available in the last > > ten > > > years. Seekers have flocked to the fountain in > > hoardes, throngs of > > > the thirsty travellers finally able to drink > > straight from the > > source > > > or better still, sources! More the merrier!! > > > > > > Yet in the last ten years, if one looks back, > > there have been more > > > illnesses, more wars, more terrorism, more natural > > calamities and > > > disasters. The naive belief of there being > > critical number of > > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive > > change in this > > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and > > despite all this > > influx > > > of freely available religious thought, mantras, > > tantras and all > > the > > > rest has simply not worked. > > > > > > Something is missing, what? > > > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are > > merely symbols, > > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as > > religious idols must > > or > > > gemstones must before they come alive and can do > > what they are > > > capable of. > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Dear Arvind, pranam. rajendracholan4u> wrote: > My humble opinion is : > It is not the God > It is not the Mantra > It is one's belief that makes wishes come true. > I did not try to project or say "There is No God" or Mantras are useless... Sorry, I got you wrong because you gave above statemens. You said: Only "belief" that makes wishes come true... not the God, not the mantra. Somebody must fulfill the wishes, we are no God to fulfill desires. We wish, and God in His mercy maybe fulfils. Best regards, Shad , ArvindRaj <rajendracholan4u> wrote: > My God ! My views are interpreted in wrong ways... > > I did not try to project or say "There is No God" or Mantras are useless... > I just want to emphasis that If you try to please God and do it whole heartedly (Not even a small hesitation or doubt) - That would yield you greater results... > > Regards > Arvind > > > Shad <waterpowers> wrote: > > Dear Arvind, > > > It is not the God > > No there is a God that answers our prayers. > > The believe is really very important, you are right, but the mercy > of God is what decides in the end, not only our believe and mental > state. It is not that we can make a deal 'we believe in you, God, > and you gotta save our lifes', or even worse since we strongly > believe we will NOT die, we in fact will not die. That is illusion. > > Believing or not, tomorrow morning the sun will rise. I may not > believe I could die one day, but it anyway will happen. > > What you say means, your belief is above God - but this shall not > happen, we must remain humble, and know we depend on the mercy of > God. > > > It is not the Mantra > > In vedas it is written, for example, the name of Lord Vishnu is non- > different from Vishnu Himself. So, if you don't want to believe in > vedas, which scriptures do you acknowledge? > > > If you chant Mritunjaya Mantra, thinking it could please Jesus, > > and believe strongly that all your worries can be solved - > > ofcourse it will be solved. > > No, with the Mrityunjaya mantra you worship a specific deity of Lord > Siva, not Jesus Christ. And it is NOT the same. Jesus Christ would > be glad to see you worship the God, His father, because this is what > He taught us all the time. > > So, if you want to please Jesus you must worship Him, with the > prayers He gave you and follow His teachings. > I love Jesus too. > > Kind regards, > Shad > > > > , ArvindRaj > <rajendracholan4u> wrote: > > My humble opinion is : > > It is not the God > > It is not the Mantra > > It is one's belief that makes wishes come true. > > > > If you chant Mritunjaya Mantra, thinking it could please Jesus, > and believe strongly that all your worries can be solved - ofcourse > it will be solved. > > > > Belief comes first, then comes all other things - like radiations > generated by mantras etc...etc... > > > > Regards > > Arvind > > > > > > Shad <waterpowers> wrote: > > > > Dear KAD, pranam! > > > > thank you for your reply. You are a real pundit and it is nice you > > again and again enlighten uswith your knowledge. > > > > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, indirectly points > > > at Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > > > It might seem indirectly in my message, which was not my > intention. > > My intention was to inspire people to chant mantras and pray. > > > > I see in different religions spiritual diversity and unity, which > is > > the beauty in these processes. > > > > Why Siva actually listened to my Grandma's prayers, and Jesus > > didn't - I don't know. And it is not important. > > God has some many expansions and so many servant, it doesn't > really > > matter in the end who answer to your prayers. > > > > > Whatever god or demi-god of whichever > > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > > effect is all the same. > > > > I cannot really agree with you here. > > All shastra, such as vedanta and siddhanta say that we should not > > worship demi-God equal as incarnations of the vishnu-tattva or > siva- > > tattva. > > If one puts demi-Gods on the same level as God, such as Krishna or > > Siva, and say, no matter, the result will be same the same if you > > pray to the demi-God, you make offenses and one DOES NOT receive > the > > same results. > > > > Demi-Gods give material results. One can get better karma, > > prosperity and other material gain. They are jiva-tattva, means a > > soul as we human are, only they achieved a position according to > > their god karma on heavenly planets. Once their good karma > is 'work > > off' they will take birth again at a place like Earth. > > > > God, vishnu-tattva or siva-tattva etc give transcendental results, > > beyond karma and guna. If one worships them, one can come to the > > spiritual sky like brahmajyoti, vaikunthas, siva-loka or other > > transcendental planets which are outside of our material universe > > and creation. > > > > All demi-God are subordinated to God, without permission of the > Lord > > they cannot do anything. > > > > So, please, you as pundit, who really is scholared in shastra as I > > can see from your postings, don't teach the people demi-God > worship > > and God worship is equal. > > > > Somebody might take that serious and you would receive great > > spiritual damage. > > > > Best regards, > > Shad > > > > > > , "kadrudra" > <kadrudra> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shad, > > > > > > Your conviction in Lord Shiva shall protect you and happy to see > > that > > > you are attracted to vedic line of thought. > > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, indirectly points > > at > > > Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > > and power, which is not true. Whatever god or demi-god of > > whichever > > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > > effect is all the same. I can show you a number of cases like > your > > > granny's case even in India and outside, where > > > people got saved by their belief in JESUS or ALLAH or BUDDHA or > > > whomever they believed to get help from and never knew > > > Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra(MMM). > > > > > > It is the REALIZATION of self which brings about a change. > Mantra- > > > Yantra-Tantra are all MATERIALISTIC in nature and are > > > tools for the DHARMA-ARTHA-KAMA and are VEDIC in their course. > > While > > > DHYAANA or meditation is a VEDANTA or YOGIC way and > > > NON-MATERIALISTIC and is a tool for MOKSHA. Why do you think > VEDAS > > > which describe millions of Mantras of millions of gods > > > end as VEDANTA which says there is only one UNIQUE and TRUE > > SUPREME? > > > > > > Perhaps your granny had Mantra-sidhi yoga in her chart which led > > her > > > to learn MMM through casette, thats really fine! > > > If I were in your place, I would have given her a casette with > > > chantings of 'Parable of Lost Sheep' from The Holy Bible (St. > Luke > > > Chap XV 1-19) > > > to reassure that her 80 year old conviction of JESUS would still > > > protect her. If anyone differs, it means MMM is more > > > powerful than prayers to Jesus, which contradicts Vedantic > > theories > > > supporting MMM! > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Shad" > <waterpowers> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I give you a small example: > > > > > > > > Three years ago I could see in real life how this > > > > mantra saves lifes at my very own Grandmother. > > > > She was about to die being in hospital, experiencing > > > > her third lung-infection, at age of 80. Most people > > > > die at the first lung infection in this age, she had > > > > the third. > > > > > > > > When she saw death coming she asked her daughter, my > > > > aunt, to take me there to see my Grandma, she wanted > > > > to talk to me and ask me something. > > > > > > > > My aunt said that Grandma was very afraid of dying, > > > > and all the days she had been praying to Jesus to save > > > > her life, but the situation became worse and worse. > > > > > > > > My Grandma then told me that Jesus wouldn't hear er > > > > prayers anymore, as she requested Him to save her > > > > life. She then said 'maybe your Hindu-God is more > > > > merciful?' and save her life. If I knew a prayer for > > > > her. > > > > > > > > So I was in a desperate situation - what shall I do?! > > > > Tell her Krishna would save her life if she chanted > > > > harekrishna mantra? That would have been a lie. > > > > So I decided to give her the Mahamrityunjaya mantra, > > > > as in Vedas it is said it can save life - so I > > > > wouldn't lie at her. But honestly I didn't anymore > > > > believe she still had a chance. Not that I doubted in > > > > the mantra, but it was really late for her. Only a > > > > miracle could save her. If she had asked earlier... > > > > > > > > So I gave her a tape with the chants of the mantra and > > > > the printed mantra. My aunt learned how to chant the > > > > mantra, as she was all day with her mother and could > > > > teach her. > > > > > > > > This was on a Monday, and the doctors had suggested to > > > > prepare the funeral for the Sunday following. > > > > Everything was prepared. After three days my > > > > Grandmother left the hospital. And the doctor said, he > > > > doesn't understand, but she had a better blood than he > > > > does. > > > > > > > > On Sunday she visit the morning mess at church, and > > > > the priest was shocked to see her actually, as he had > > > > already taken the money for her very funeral. > > > > > > > > She lived a year more. Never before in her life she > > > > had heard about Lord Siva or believed in any other God > > > > than her Jesus and His Mother Mary. > > > > > > > > But facing death she chanted with ful heart, even > > > > being unconscious, she continued repeating the mantra. > > > > Even the doctors told me words of the mantra as they > > > > again and again heard it from her. > > > > > > > > One could tell us Hindus it is our belief, a placebo > > > > effect, but my Grandma never knew about Siva or the > > > > mantras praising Him. She only knew I was a 'Krishna > > > > devotee'. And actually never liked the fact that I had > > > > turned away from Christianity 20 years ago. > > > > > > > > Siva indeed is merciful! > > > > > > > > > The naive belief of there being critical number of > > > > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive change in > > this > > > > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and despite all > this > > > > > influx of freely available religious thought, mantras, > tantras > > > and > > > > > all the rest has simply not worked. > > > > > > > > How do you know this? And what would have happened, if people > on > > > > this planet wouldn't worship God and wouldn't praise Him with > > all > > > > these mantras? > > > > Maybe things would look even worse. > > > > > > > > I can assure you we would have much bigger hell on Earth, if > > there > > > > weren't pious people being naive enough to chant the mantras > and > > > > prayers...! > > > > > > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are merely > > symbols, > > > > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as religious > idols > > > must > > > > > or gemstones must before they come alive and can do what > they > > are > > > > > capable of. > > > > > > > > I can assure you that some mantras are non-different from God > > > > Himself. The name of Lord Siva is non-different from the Lord > > > > Himself. All energies are in this name, which also counts for > > other > > > > Vishnu-tattvas, Siva-tattvas, Shakti-tattvas, and other > > expansions > > > > of God and His names. > > > > > > > > There may be many idiots and cynics that claim different, but > > the > > > > evidence will only be there for you, once you have tried it > for > > > > yourself! Everybody gotta find out alone, nobody can do this > for > > > > you. > > > > > > > > !om namah sivaya! > > > > > > > > Chant this, and your life will become more auspicious! > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Shad > > > > > > > > > > > > , "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Curiously, after the invent of internet (some call it kali > > awatar > > > > or > > > > > kalki awataar), mantras have suddenly become thousand folds > > more > > > > > accessible. There are webpages after webpages with > information > > > > about > > > > > it, mantra recordings galore, in voice (no more distortion > of > > > > > pronounciation getting in the way of the dedicated sadhak) > and > > > all > > > > > this information has only become so widely available in the > > last > > > > ten > > > > > years. Seekers have flocked to the fountain in hoardes, > > throngs > > > of > > > > > the thirsty travellers finally able to drink straight from > the > > > > source > > > > > or better still, sources! More the merrier!! > > > > > > > > > > Yet in the last ten years, if one looks back, there have > been > > > more > > > > > illnesses, more wars, more terrorism, more natural > calamities > > and > > > > > disasters. The naive belief of there being critical number > of > > > > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive change in > > this > > > > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and despite all > this > > > > influx > > > > > of freely available religious thought, mantras, tantras and > > all > > > > the > > > > > rest has simply not worked. > > > > > > > > > > Something is missing, what? > > > > > > > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are merely > > symbols, > > > > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as religious > idols > > > must > > > > or > > > > > gemstones must before they come alive and can do what they > are > > > > > capable of. > > > > > > > > > > Any light you can shine on the above? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "Shad" > > > <waterpowers> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > Mantra has more power as the nuclear-bomb! > > > > > > best regards > > > > > > shad > > > > > > > > > > > > "om namaha sivaya" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Teachings of Babaji: Mantra Bomb > > > > > > 20 APRIL 1980 > > > > > > > > > > > > Note: After the evening aarati, Babaji spoke at length > about > > > the > > > > > > power of the > > > > > > mantra Om Namah Shivai. Some of his talk went as follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > "I am happy that you are all on the way of religion. I am > > > > > > encouraged. As in past > > > > > > times, in certain parts of Europe there was a sincere > > adoration > > > > of > > > > > > fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > Babaji then said "More than half of the people are > oriented > > > > towards > > > > > > destruction" > > > > > > and went on to relate a story of how, at a time in the > past > > > > > > (Mahabharata times), > > > > > > all the resources of Ravana's kingdom were used for the > > > creation > > > > of > > > > > > a bomb so > > > > > > large and powerful that it was even more powerful than > those > > we > > > > > have > > > > > > today. Then > > > > > > some positive and creative forces got together and created > > > > > something > > > > > > that would > > > > > > be even more powerful than this enormous destructive bomb. > > They > > > > > > created the > > > > > > mantra bomb. > > > > > > > > > > > > "The mantra is still the only way." > > > > > > > > > > > > Babaji then gave two examples of survival and said that > > those > > > > who > > > > > > use the mantra > > > > > > will survive in the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > First Example: When Lord Krishna was at a battle where > > > > everything > > > > > > was on fire, a > > > > > > locust came to pray at His feet. Krishna then placed His > > helmet > > > > > over > > > > > > the locust. > > > > > > Everything on the field was burned and killed, except the > > > > locust, > > > > > > which survived > > > > > > under Lord Krishna's helmet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second Example: In a flour mill, all of the grain is > ground > > up, > > > > > just > > > > > > like people > > > > > > are in the destructive process. A few grains escape > because > > > they > > > > > are > > > > > > near the > > > > > > center pole and fall down and away from the grinding wheel. > > > > > > > > > > > > "I am happy that you are here. You should not waste your > > time > > > > while > > > > > > you are > > > > > > here. Have faith." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do what you Love. > > > > > > Live where you Love. > > > > > > Pray where you Love. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! 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Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hi , > Faith is to Believe what you do not see: I don't see my brain. Is it only Believe that I have brain because I don't see? Real Faith is not blind. > The result of which is: you see what you believed I personally have other experience on this:-) best regards Shad , Nandkumar Chinai <nvchinai> wrote: > Does this aphorism sum things up ? > > Faith is to Believe what you do not see > The result of which is: you see what you believed > > surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv> wrote: > Arvind, > > The starting point of belief is always experience .. > if u practice a mantra u will experience weather u > believe in it or not .. belief then will add to the > strength subsequently ! > > --- ArvindRaj <rajendracholan4u> wrote: > > > My humble opinion is : > > It is not the God > > It is not the Mantra > > It is one's belief that makes wishes come true. > > > > If you chant Mritunjaya Mantra, thinking it could > > please Jesus, and believe strongly that all your > > worries can be solved - ofcourse it will be solved. > > > > Belief comes first, then comes all other things - > > like radiations generated by mantras etc...etc... > > > > Regards > > Arvind > > > > > > Shad <waterpowers> wrote: > > > > Dear KAD, pranam! > > > > thank you for your reply. You are a real pundit and > > it is nice you > > again and again enlighten uswith your knowledge. > > > > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, > > indirectly points > > > at Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > > > It might seem indirectly in my message, which was > > not my intention. > > My intention was to inspire people to chant mantras > > and pray. > > > > I see in different religions spiritual diversity and > > unity, which is > > the beauty in these processes. > > > > Why Siva actually listened to my Grandma's prayers, > > and Jesus > > didn't - I don't know. And it is not important. > > God has some many expansions and so many servant, it > > doesn't really > > matter in the end who answer to your prayers. > > > > > Whatever god or demi-god of whichever > > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > > effect is all the same. > > > > I cannot really agree with you here. > > All shastra, such as vedanta and siddhanta say that > > we should not > > worship demi-God equal as incarnations of the > > vishnu-tattva or siva- > > tattva. > > If one puts demi-Gods on the same level as God, such > > as Krishna or > > Siva, and say, no matter, the result will be same > > the same if you > > pray to the demi-God, you make offenses and one DOES > > NOT receive the > > same results. > > > > Demi-Gods give material results. One can get better > > karma, > > prosperity and other material gain. They are > > jiva-tattva, means a > > soul as we human are, only they achieved a position > > according to > > their god karma on heavenly planets. Once their good > > karma is 'work > > off' they will take birth again at a place like > > Earth. > > > > God, vishnu-tattva or siva-tattva etc give > > transcendental results, > > beyond karma and guna. If one worships them, one can > > come to the > > spiritual sky like brahmajyoti, vaikunthas, > > siva-loka or other > > transcendental planets which are outside of our > > material universe > > and creation. > > > > All demi-God are subordinated to God, without > > permission of the Lord > > they cannot do anything. > > > > So, please, you as pundit, who really is scholared > > in shastra as I > > can see from your postings, don't teach the people > > demi-God worship > > and God worship is equal. > > > > Somebody might take that serious and you would > > receive great > > spiritual damage. > > > > Best regards, > > Shad > > > > > > , "kadrudra" > > <kadrudra> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shad, > > > > > > Your conviction in Lord Shiva shall protect you > > and happy to see > > that > > > you are attracted to vedic line of thought. > > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, > > indirectly points > > at > > > Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > > and power, which is not true. Whatever god or > > demi-god of > > whichever > > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > > effect is all the same. I can show you a number of > > cases like your > > > granny's case even in India and outside, where > > > people got saved by their belief in JESUS or ALLAH > > or BUDDHA or > > > whomever they believed to get help from and never > > knew > > > Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra(MMM). > > > > > > It is the REALIZATION of self which brings about a > > change. Mantra- > > > Yantra-Tantra are all MATERIALISTIC in nature and > > are > > > tools for the DHARMA-ARTHA-KAMA and are VEDIC in > > their course. > > While > > > DHYAANA or meditation is a VEDANTA or YOGIC way > > and > > > NON-MATERIALISTIC and is a tool for MOKSHA. Why do > > you think VEDAS > > > which describe millions of Mantras of millions of > > gods > > > end as VEDANTA which says there is only one UNIQUE > > and TRUE > > SUPREME? > > > > > > Perhaps your granny had Mantra-sidhi yoga in her > > chart which led > > her > > > to learn MMM through casette, thats really fine! > > > If I were in your place, I would have given her a > > casette with > > > chantings of 'Parable of Lost Sheep' from The Holy > > Bible (St. Luke > > > Chap XV 1-19) > > > to reassure that her 80 year old conviction of > > JESUS would still > > > protect her. If anyone differs, it means MMM is > > more > > > powerful than prayers to Jesus, which contradicts > > Vedantic > > theories > > > supporting MMM! > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Shad" > > <waterpowers> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I give you a small example: > > > > > > > > Three years ago I could see in real life how > > this > > > > mantra saves lifes at my very own Grandmother. > > > > She was about to die being in hospital, > > experiencing > > > > her third lung-infection, at age of 80. Most > > people > > > > die at the first lung infection in this age, she > > had > > > > the third. > > > > > > > > When she saw death coming she asked her > > daughter, my > > > > aunt, to take me there to see my Grandma, she > > wanted > > > > to talk to me and ask me something. > > > > > > > > My aunt said that Grandma was very afraid of > > dying, > > > > and all the days she had been praying to Jesus > > to save > > > > her life, but the situation became worse and > > worse. > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ > > > Sponsor > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 dear kad, I am completely agreed with you. Hinduism is a philosophy of life and is broad minded religion which believes in multgod theory. No religion is less and these are various ways to reach to almighty. These all say that there is only one supreme power which rule us. Due to differen values, morality, culture, language and beliefs, He has been named differently with variabilty, otherwise every human being of different religion and faith has different story of miracles to tell. No religion is inferior or superior, itis unity and integrity of trust and belief in thought, which gives you strength. No doubt, mantras recitation with purity of mind and soul can provide you wonderful results keeping aside the language of recitation. regards pankaj sharma kadrudra <kadrudra wrote: Dear Shad, Your conviction in Lord Shiva shall protect you and happy to see that you are attracted to vedic line of thought. BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, indirectly points at Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity and power, which is not true. Whatever god or demi-god of whichever religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the effect is all the same. I can show you a number of cases like your granny's case even in India and outside, where people got saved by their belief in JESUS or ALLAH or BUDDHA or whomever they believed to get help from and never knew Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra(MMM). It is the REALIZATION of self which brings about a change. Mantra- Yantra-Tantra are all MATERIALISTIC in nature and are tools for the DHARMA-ARTHA-KAMA and are VEDIC in their course. While DHYAANA or meditation is a VEDANTA or YOGIC way and NON-MATERIALISTIC and is a tool for MOKSHA. Why do you think VEDAS which describe millions of Mantras of millions of gods end as VEDANTA which says there is only one UNIQUE and TRUE SUPREME? Perhaps your granny had Mantra-sidhi yoga in her chart which led her to learn MMM through casette, thats really fine! If I were in your place, I would have given her a casette with chantings of 'Parable of Lost Sheep' from The Holy Bible (St. Luke Chap XV 1-19) to reassure that her 80 year old conviction of JESUS would still protect her. If anyone differs, it means MMM is more powerful than prayers to Jesus, which contradicts Vedantic theories supporting MMM! yours humbly, KAD , "Shad" <waterpowers> wrote: > I give you a small example: > > Three years ago I could see in real life how this > mantra saves lifes at my very own Grandmother. > She was about to die being in hospital, experiencing > her third lung-infection, at age of 80. Most people > die at the first lung infection in this age, she had > the third. > > When she saw death coming she asked her daughter, my > aunt, to take me there to see my Grandma, she wanted > to talk to me and ask me something. > > My aunt said that Grandma was very afraid of dying, > and all the days she had been praying to Jesus to save > her life, but the situation became worse and worse. > > My Grandma then told me that Jesus wouldn't hear er > prayers anymore, as she requested Him to save her > life. She then said 'maybe your Hindu-God is more > merciful?' and save her life. If I knew a prayer for > her. > > So I was in a desperate situation - what shall I do?! > Tell her Krishna would save her life if she chanted > harekrishna mantra? That would have been a lie. > So I decided to give her the Mahamrityunjaya mantra, > as in Vedas it is said it can save life - so I > wouldn't lie at her. But honestly I didn't anymore > believe she still had a chance. Not that I doubted in > the mantra, but it was really late for her. Only a > miracle could save her. If she had asked earlier... > > So I gave her a tape with the chants of the mantra and > the printed mantra. My aunt learned how to chant the > mantra, as she was all day with her mother and could > teach her. > > This was on a Monday, and the doctors had suggested to > prepare the funeral for the Sunday following. > Everything was prepared. After three days my > Grandmother left the hospital. And the doctor said, he > doesn't understand, but she had a better blood than he > does. > > On Sunday she visit the morning mess at church, and > the priest was shocked to see her actually, as he had > already taken the money for her very funeral. > > She lived a year more. Never before in her life she > had heard about Lord Siva or believed in any other God > than her Jesus and His Mother Mary. > > But facing death she chanted with ful heart, even > being unconscious, she continued repeating the mantra. > Even the doctors told me words of the mantra as they > again and again heard it from her. > > One could tell us Hindus it is our belief, a placebo > effect, but my Grandma never knew about Siva or the > mantras praising Him. She only knew I was a 'Krishna > devotee'. And actually never liked the fact that I had > turned away from Christianity 20 years ago. > > Siva indeed is merciful! > > > The naive belief of there being critical number of > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive change in this > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and despite all this > > influx of freely available religious thought, mantras, tantras and > > all the rest has simply not worked. > > How do you know this? And what would have happened, if people on > this planet wouldn't worship God and wouldn't praise Him with all > these mantras? > Maybe things would look even worse. > > I can assure you we would have much bigger hell on Earth, if there > weren't pious people being naive enough to chant the mantras and > prayers...! > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are merely symbols, > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as religious idols must > > or gemstones must before they come alive and can do what they are > > capable of. > > I can assure you that some mantras are non-different from God > Himself. The name of Lord Siva is non-different from the Lord > Himself. All energies are in this name, which also counts for other > Vishnu-tattvas, Siva-tattvas, Shakti-tattvas, and other expansions > of God and His names. > > There may be many idiots and cynics that claim different, but the > evidence will only be there for you, once you have tried it for > yourself! Everybody gotta find out alone, nobody can do this for > you. > > !om namah sivaya! > > Chant this, and your life will become more auspicious! > > Kind regards, > Shad > > > , "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > wrote: > > > > Curiously, after the invent of internet (some call it kali awatar > or > > kalki awataar), mantras have suddenly become thousand folds more > > accessible. There are webpages after webpages with information > about > > it, mantra recordings galore, in voice (no more distortion of > > pronounciation getting in the way of the dedicated sadhak) and all > > this information has only become so widely available in the last > ten > > years. Seekers have flocked to the fountain in hoardes, throngs of > > the thirsty travellers finally able to drink straight from the > source > > or better still, sources! More the merrier!! > > > > Yet in the last ten years, if one looks back, there have been more > > illnesses, more wars, more terrorism, more natural calamities and > > disasters. The naive belief of there being critical number of > > spiritual practitioners somehow making a positive change in this > > world and its spiritual reason for being, and despite all this > influx > > of freely available religious thought, mantras, tantras and all > the > > rest has simply not worked. > > > > Something is missing, what? > > > > Some cynics say that mantras (just like gems) are merely symbols, > > concrete forms that must be awakened, just as religious idols must > or > > gemstones must before they come alive and can do what they are > > capable of. > > > > Any light you can shine on the above? > > > > Thanks > > > > RR > > > > , "Shad" <waterpowers> > > wrote: > > > > > > dear all, > > > > > > Mantra has more power as the nuclear-bomb! > > > best regards > > > shad > > > > > > "om namaha sivaya" > > > > > > > > > Teachings of Babaji: Mantra Bomb > > > 20 APRIL 1980 > > > > > > Note: After the evening aarati, Babaji spoke at length about the > > > power of the > > > mantra Om Namah Shivai. Some of his talk went as follows: > > > > > > "I am happy that you are all on the way of religion. I am > > > encouraged. As in past > > > times, in certain parts of Europe there was a sincere adoration > of > > > fire. > > > > > > Babaji then said "More than half of the people are oriented > towards > > > destruction" > > > and went on to relate a story of how, at a time in the past > > > (Mahabharata times), > > > all the resources of Ravana's kingdom were used for the creation > of > > > a bomb so > > > large and powerful that it was even more powerful than those we > > have > > > today. Then > > > some positive and creative forces got together and created > > something > > > that would > > > be even more powerful than this enormous destructive bomb. They > > > created the > > > mantra bomb. > > > > > > "The mantra is still the only way." > > > > > > Babaji then gave two examples of survival and said that those > who > > > use the mantra > > > will survive in the same way. > > > > > > First Example: When Lord Krishna was at a battle where > everything > > > was on fire, a > > > locust came to pray at His feet. Krishna then placed His helmet > > over > > > the locust. > > > Everything on the field was burned and killed, except the > locust, > > > which survived > > > under Lord Krishna's helmet. > > > > > > Second Example: In a flour mill, all of the grain is ground up, > > just > > > like people > > > are in the destructive process. A few grains escape because they > > are > > > near the > > > center pole and fall down and away from the grinding wheel. > > > > > > "I am happy that you are here. You should not waste your time > while > > > you are > > > here. Have faith." > > > > > > > > > > > > Do what you Love. > > > Live where you Love. > > > Pray where you Love. ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ / India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Faith always starts as a notion .. and is strengthened with every affirmative experience and weakens with every contrary experience .. The aphorism is incomplete because it does not talk about the reason you had faith to begin with .. --- Nandkumar Chinai <nvchinai wrote: > Does this aphorism sum things up ? > > Faith is to Believe what you do not see > The result of which is: you see what you believed > > surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv wrote: > Arvind, > > The starting point of belief is always experience .. > if u practice a mantra u will experience weather u > believe in it or not .. belief then will add to the > strength subsequently ! > > --- ArvindRaj <rajendracholan4u wrote: > > > My humble opinion is : > > It is not the God > > It is not the Mantra > > It is one's belief that makes wishes come true. > > > > If you chant Mritunjaya Mantra, thinking it could > > please Jesus, and believe strongly that all your > > worries can be solved - ofcourse it will be > solved. > > > > Belief comes first, then comes all other things - > > like radiations generated by mantras etc...etc... > > > > Regards > > Arvind > > > > > > Shad <waterpowers wrote: > > > > Dear KAD, pranam! > > > > thank you for your reply. You are a real pundit > and > > it is nice you > > again and again enlighten uswith your knowledge. > > > > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, > > indirectly points > > > at Hindu gods and Mantras being better in > capacity > > > > It might seem indirectly in my message, which was > > not my intention. > > My intention was to inspire people to chant > mantras > > and pray. > > > > I see in different religions spiritual diversity > and > > unity, which is > > the beauty in these processes. > > > > Why Siva actually listened to my Grandma's > prayers, > > and Jesus > > didn't - I don't know. And it is not important. > > God has some many expansions and so many servant, > it > > doesn't really > > matter in the end who answer to your prayers. > > > > > Whatever god or demi-god of whichever > > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > > effect is all the same. > > > > I cannot really agree with you here. > > All shastra, such as vedanta and siddhanta say > that > > we should not > > worship demi-God equal as incarnations of the > > vishnu-tattva or siva- > > tattva. > > If one puts demi-Gods on the same level as God, > such > > as Krishna or > > Siva, and say, no matter, the result will be same > > the same if you > > pray to the demi-God, you make offenses and one > DOES > > NOT receive the > > same results. > > > > Demi-Gods give material results. One can get > better > > karma, > > prosperity and other material gain. They are > > jiva-tattva, means a > > soul as we human are, only they achieved a > position > > according to > > their god karma on heavenly planets. Once their > good > > karma is 'work > > off' they will take birth again at a place like > > Earth. > > > > God, vishnu-tattva or siva-tattva etc give > > transcendental results, > > beyond karma and guna. If one worships them, one > can > > come to the > > spiritual sky like brahmajyoti, vaikunthas, > > siva-loka or other > > transcendental planets which are outside of our > > material universe > > and creation. > > > > All demi-God are subordinated to God, without > > permission of the Lord > > they cannot do anything. > > > > So, please, you as pundit, who really is scholared > > in shastra as I > > can see from your postings, don't teach the people > > demi-God worship > > and God worship is equal. > > > > Somebody might take that serious and you would > > receive great > > spiritual damage. > > > > Best regards, > > Shad > > > > > > , > "kadrudra" > > <kadrudra> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shad, > > > > > > Your conviction in Lord Shiva shall protect you > > and happy to see > > that > > > you are attracted to vedic line of thought. > > > BUT, I feel your message, though not aimed at, > > indirectly points > > at > > > Hindu gods and Mantras being better in capacity > > > and power, which is not true. Whatever god or > > demi-god of > > whichever > > > religion one chooses to worship or pray to, the > > > effect is all the same. I can show you a number > of > > cases like your > > > granny's case even in India and outside, where > > > people got saved by their belief in JESUS or > ALLAH > > or BUDDHA or > > > whomever they believed to get help from and > never > > knew > > > Maha Mrityunjaya Mantra(MMM). > > > > > > It is the REALIZATION of self which brings about > a > > change. Mantra- > > > Yantra-Tantra are all MATERIALISTIC in nature > and > > are > > > tools for the DHARMA-ARTHA-KAMA and are VEDIC in > > their course. > > While > > > DHYAANA or meditation is a VEDANTA or YOGIC way > > and > > > NON-MATERIALISTIC and is a tool for MOKSHA. Why > do > > you think VEDAS > > > which describe millions of Mantras of millions > of > > gods > > > end as VEDANTA which says there is only one > UNIQUE > > and TRUE > > SUPREME? > > > > > > Perhaps your granny had Mantra-sidhi yoga in her > > chart which led > > her > > > to learn MMM through casette, thats really fine! > > > If I were in your place, I would have given her > a > > casette with > > > chantings of 'Parable of Lost Sheep' from The > Holy > > Bible (St. Luke > > > Chap XV 1-19) > > > to reassure that her 80 year old conviction of > > JESUS would still > > > protect her. If anyone differs, it means MMM is > > more > > > powerful than prayers to Jesus, which > contradicts > > Vedantic > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hi All, In all this disscussion i want to add my experience: I took the path of spiritualism some years back.... from this statement i mean that i started doing efforts for spiritual progress.My first ever experiences of meditation,prayers,Love to God were more purity in heart,more love for all,more clarity in life. that are obvious grants on this path for sure.... I was devottee of Shri Krishna.......i still am. At sometimes i felt grace of Lord Shiva...with his unique Shiva tattva ..... i want to mention humbly that my spiritual experiences are very few and may be very small.... but still i can say something on basis of these... Apart from above mentioned things and my Love for ppl....the major ones are.... 1. I first saw the uniqueness of Navratra days.I felt there is something special in these days. 2. I have love for all religion and all saints.But even though having all my heart in Krishna and saint Swami Vivekanand it was Jesus who came in my dream ever first.I very humbly want to say that i know the difference of normal and that particular dream. I am a poet also.... a poet can see the difference of words... I can say the mantras are really special like i felt of Navratra days. I am convinced with all PPL in the discussion....It made me joyed ... Very humbly..... In search..... Amit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Dear Amit, harekrishna! Many thanks for sharing your nice Navaratri experiences with us! Also I am still in the Navaratri-mood - pity is passed by so quickly. But spring will be soon! One can chant the same bhajans again and again, the same words, but it never is enough or too much. The more one sings, the more eager one becomes to chant on. One can see: this is the food for the soul! Material songs can be sung or heard a couple of time, and enough, they become boring, in exact opposit to bhajan, the chanting of the holy name! Also I am an initiated devotee of Lord Krishna in the vaishnava sampradaya, but as you also I feel very much attracted to Lord Siva. No surprise, Krishna glorifies and wirships Him all the name. One big family! Do you worship only Sri Krishna or also Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu? harekrishna, harekrishna, krishnakrishna, harehare harerama, harerama, ramarama, harehare haribol, Shadbhuj Gour d. , "amit_call" <amit_call> wrote: > > Hi All, > In all this disscussion i want to add my experience: > I took the path of spiritualism some years back.... > from this statement i mean that i started doing efforts for spiritual > progress.My first ever experiences of meditation,prayers,Love to God > were more purity in heart,more love for all,more clarity in life. > that are obvious grants on this path for sure.... > I was devottee of Shri Krishna.......i still am. > At sometimes i felt grace of Lord Shiva...with his unique Shiva > tattva ..... > i want to mention humbly that my spiritual experiences are very few > and may be very small.... > but still i can say something on basis of these... > Apart from above mentioned things and my Love for ppl....the major > ones are.... > 1. I first saw the uniqueness of Navratra days.I felt there is > something special in these days. > 2. I have love for all religion and all saints.But even though having > all my heart in Krishna and saint Swami Vivekanand it was Jesus who > came in my dream ever first.I very humbly want to say that i know the > difference of normal and that particular dream. > I am a poet also.... a poet can see the difference of words... > I can say the mantras are really special like i felt of Navratra days. > > I am convinced with all PPL in the discussion....It made me joyed ... > Very humbly..... > In search..... > Amit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Om, Dear Shad ji, One more thing i would like to share..... i was very much against of idol worship,demi-god concept etc. i was a beiliver of so called intellectual, modern, impressed by sceince line of thought. But i was a sincere thinker...... I used to love God as a friend of mine. After getting some spiritual experiences i started meditation and some HathaYoga practices..... Then came the right things.... i realized ...He is not mere an image that i took as a friend.... He is for devotion only..... i realized Krishna is not mere a moral,intelligent character(Hero) what i (or anyone) thought of.......I realized his grace.... these are very small...and initial experiences...but removes all the confusion and determines one to the path of sadhna... I said all this because i want to say that i do not follow vaishnav path or Shri chaitanya...... I was in Rahu-moon dasha when i got these intense experiences ...... Also i got worst of pains in my worldly life....... Now i am in Rahu-mars dasha and i am going more practical in worldly life.... I want to ask one thing::: spiritual progress is individuals effort though planets movement contributes a lot.... in Rahu-ven dasha i was taught Love for all(yeah i have to struggle with lust also) in Rahu-sun -- it destroyed my prides in Rahu-chandra -- all sufferings and it gave me more intuition, devotion In Rahu-mars(present dasha) i am learning worldly Confidence and practical things. Previously i was not progressive in Worldly life..only somewhat in rahu-ven. I am gaining nothing in spiritual life.....also loosing nothing As my worldly responsibilities are growing.... this dasha is rightly configured at right time..... In mar 2005 i will be in Jup Mahadasha.... Then.... will i be able to achieve a balance in Worldly life and spiritual life......???? its a serious concern for me.. In devotion to Krishna.......... Amit , "Shad" <waterpowers> wrote: > > Dear Amit, > harekrishna! > > Many thanks for sharing your nice Navaratri experiences with us! > Also I am still in the Navaratri-mood - pity is passed by so > quickly. But spring will be soon! > > One can chant the same bhajans again and again, the same words, but > it never is enough or too much. The more one sings, the more eager > one becomes to chant on. One can see: this is the food for the soul! > > Material songs can be sung or heard a couple of time, and enough, > they become boring, in exact opposit to bhajan, the chanting of the > holy name! > > Also I am an initiated devotee of Lord Krishna in the vaishnava > sampradaya, but as you also I feel very much attracted to Lord Siva. > No surprise, Krishna glorifies and wirships Him all the name. One > big family! > > Do you worship only Sri Krishna or also Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu? > > harekrishna, harekrishna, krishnakrishna, harehare > harerama, harerama, ramarama, harehare > > haribol, > Shadbhuj Gour d. > > > > , "amit_call" > <amit_call> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > In all this disscussion i want to add my experience: > > I took the path of spiritualism some years back.... > > from this statement i mean that i started doing efforts for > spiritual > > progress.My first ever experiences of meditation,prayers,Love to > God > > were more purity in heart,more love for all,more clarity in life. > > that are obvious grants on this path for sure.... > > I was devottee of Shri Krishna.......i still am. > > At sometimes i felt grace of Lord Shiva...with his unique Shiva > > tattva ..... > > i want to mention humbly that my spiritual experiences are very > few > > and may be very small.... > > but still i can say something on basis of these... > > Apart from above mentioned things and my Love for ppl....the major > > ones are.... > > 1. I first saw the uniqueness of Navratra days.I felt there is > > something special in these days. > > 2. I have love for all religion and all saints.But even though > having > > all my heart in Krishna and saint Swami Vivekanand it was Jesus > who > > came in my dream ever first.I very humbly want to say that i know > the > > difference of normal and that particular dream. > > I am a poet also.... a poet can see the difference of words... > > I can say the mantras are really special like i felt of Navratra > days. > > > > I am convinced with all PPL in the discussion....It made me > joyed ... > > Very humbly..... > > In search..... > > Amit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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