Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Dear Surya Ji, pranam. > Just curious, has this issue ever been resolved one > way or the other??? Don't search for spirituality outside of your soul and heart. You have to do it alone.Only by intelligence and mental speculation you never find the truth. Meditation, serving god and his devotees and all living beings is the way, to find out the meaning of spirituality. Believe me please "self realization" is the right way to go. To find the Atman and to make the difference between the soul and material body and mind is the way. Here a simple mediation given from Haidhakan Babaji, please tray it: "Observe the flow of emotions. Up and down. There is constant movement, change. Don't attach to the emotions of the moment. Attach to the real behind the movement. Observe the movement, watch the emotion disappear. A new one takes its place. This is maya. That which is temporary, changes frequently, is maya. Don't attach to maya. This is all temporary. The body, emotions, relationships,wealth, power, knowledge...always changing, temporary. Understand? "This body I am in is temporary. It too has emotions constantly changing. I observe the movement of thought from its creation to its destruction. Now listen carefully. The movement of thought is time. Learn to observe thought and time becomes what it is. Maya. Created by thought, divided by thought. When the higher self observes, there is no movement, no time. There is the eternal now where the ground of being exists. The place of no- thing. This is where I,who am no-body, come out of. Do what your heart advises and all will be well. Babaji" In my opinion such mediation is better then a huge discussion on this group. Because if you make your own realization it is thousand more worth, than somebody say to you about spirituality. Best regards Shad > > 4 years ago I heard people decry that the feeling of > seeing light by tibetian monks was simply because the > brain activity was reduced to faint minimum which > caused this feeling and it has nothing spiritual about > the process ... > > I have since been wondering about the same ! > > In nature, where a vaccum is created there is a > greater tendency for all things to rush towards the > vaccum to fill it ... > > Does this hold for thoughts per say? what if creating > a vaccum of thoughts in the mind intensifies those > thoughts that come in (single thoughts that are > allowed in)? This reminds me of the homeopathy > discussion we had sometime ago ... dilution and > potentialization increases the healing capacity ! > > > --- vargottama <vargottama> wrote: > > > > > I agree! > > > > BTW, since this discussion has gone all the way > > between science, art > > and consciousness, some of you may find this link > > interesting: > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/reith2003/ > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/reith2003/lectures.shtml > > > > > > I highly recommend listening to all 5 lectures, not > > only because the > > lecturer is Indian, but also for the insight, > > scholarly rigour, > > perspective and humour. His book is also worth > > reading. > > > > Ram > > > > , > > "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > wrote: > > > > > > The 'browning out' (great example!) may not lead > > to God, but it > > does > > > create the canvas for the faint image of divinity > > to become > > apparent. > > > And for all we know, the faint image could just be > > a faint > > projection > > > from the source of awareness, the meditator! As > > the noise outside > > > dies down, we become more aware of our thoughts, > > and when those > > > become faint perhaps the background that is divine > > gets a chance to > > > squeak its faint presence. That is about where the > > real 'work' of > > the > > > soul begins, I suppose! > > > > > > A thread can only be as strong as the weakest link > > contributed by > > its > > > fibers. > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > , > > "vargottama" > > > <vargottama> wrote: > > > > > > > > Currently fashionable ideas on the mind argue > > that thinking and > > > > language are evolutionary traits, just like > > webbed feet and > > wings. > > > The > > > > Thinking and Language traits just happen to have > > a wider range of > > > > application (leading to more humans surviving > > than the planet can > > > > support). > > > > > > > > In this view, the idea that animals are somehow > > better off than > > > humans > > > > may not be teneble, because mind, language, > > logic, pollution and > > > Jane > > > > Fonda comes from nature. There are also > > arguments to the effect > > that > > > > plants are as intellgent as other organisms, > > only their actions > > are > > > > spread across time (plants avoid other plants' > > roots, they "plan" > > to > > > > grow into gaps that provide sunlight in > > rainforests etc.). > > > > > > > > One take on the silence the meditators clamour > > for is that it is > > a > > > > "switching off" of the brain's "background > > buzz". Brain imaging > > of > > > > expert meditators have shown that their brain > > activity can > > sometimes > > > > be 60% lower than other humans. > > > > > > > > Whether such browning out of the brain leads one > > to God is a > > > different > > > > question. It depends on what the brain does, the > > nature of > > knowledge > > > > (first-person/subjective Vs. > > third-person/objective). The > > argument > > > > made in the spirituality thread essentially > > claims that the first > > > kind > > > > of knowledge is superior to the second, and all > > advances made via > > > the > > > > second can be achieved by the first. I am not > > that sure, I think > > > they > > > > feed different inclinations in humans, or we > > would've seen > > > > wheelbarrows and scotch tape in ancient India. > > > > > > > > Ram > > > > > > > > , > > "rohiniranjan" > > <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In the jungle of waves and particles, > > awareness to that > > fleeting > > > wisp > > > > > of consciousness we call a thought, perhaps. > > As you indicated, > > it > > > > > might very well be that these do not arise out > > of volition, > > > though > > > > > awareness is often if not always born out of > > will. > > > > > > > > > > But there must be a zone of silence that > > meditators clamour > > for, > > > the > > > > > zone of thoughtlessness, when or where the > > jungle stands still. > > > Where > > > > > trees do not fall, even when no one is > > listening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "El > > Spook" > > > <nagrecha@v...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That was a superb question. > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, the question itself, being > > thoughtful gives birth to > > a > > > > > > whole new lot of thought on thought on the > > birth of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thought itself I believe is not born of a > > free volition but > > is > > > the > > > > > > question that is asked as we go through a > > karmic cycle of > > many > > > > > lifes > > > > > > and deaths in order to experience all that a > > soul needs to > > > discover > > > > > > in its journey, till one day, it merges back > > into the > > creator, > > > just > > > > > > like a wayward sheep returns to its fold > > having temporarily > > > enjoyed > > > > > > the benefit of freedom from the flock. > > > > > > Thought is the result of the spillover of > > karmic > > consciousness > > > that > > > > > > is left behind as memory unretentive (is > > it?) that draws you > > > back > > > > > > into the comfort of the experienced. > > > > > > Anything that is "created" or "discovered" > > is the result of a > > > > > > current epoch, an age that is currently > > prevailing as in Kal > > > Youg, > > > > > > but this does not imply it was hitherto > > unknown or > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile./maildemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Dear Shad, I understand what you are saying. At the same time, I presume it's ok to talk and share things that you cant get in grips with and learning about what others who are better than u know or think. It's a process of learning to me ... This is not to say that things that I discuss influence my spiritual aspirations totally! ... it's probably just a gamble to learn what I dont know ... It's however so difficult to observe your emotions as they come and go ... specially when your emotions are strong !! ... But I guess practice helps like in every other aspect .. Good thoughts those !! Thanks, Surya. --- Shad <waterpowers wrote: > > > Dear Surya Ji, > pranam. > > > Just curious, has this issue ever been resolved > one > > way or the other??? > > Don't search for spirituality outside of your soul > and heart. You > have to do it alone.Only by intelligence and mental > speculation you > never find the truth. > > Meditation, serving god and his devotees and all > living beings is > the way, to find out the meaning of spirituality. > > Believe me please "self realization" is the right > way to go. To > find the Atman and to make the difference between > the soul and > material body and mind is the way. > Here a simple mediation given from Haidhakan Babaji, > please tray it: > > "Observe the flow of emotions. Up and down. There is > constant > movement, change. > > Don't attach to the emotions of the moment. Attach > to the real > behind the movement. > > Observe the movement, watch the emotion disappear. A > new one takes > its place. This is maya. That which is temporary, > changes > frequently, is maya. > > Don't attach to maya. This is all temporary. The > body, emotions, > relationships,wealth, power, knowledge...always > changing, temporary. > Understand? > > "This body I am in is temporary. It too has emotions > constantly > changing. I observe the movement of thought from its > creation to its > destruction. > > Now listen carefully. The movement of thought is > time. Learn to > observe thought and time becomes what it is. Maya. > Created by > thought, divided by thought. > > When the higher self observes, there is no movement, > no time. There > is the eternal now where the ground of being exists. > The place of no- > thing. This is where I,who am no-body, come out of. > Do what your > heart advises and all will be well. > > > Babaji" > > In my opinion such mediation is better then a huge > discussion on > this group. Because if you make your own > realization it is thousand > more worth, than somebody say to you about > spirituality. > > Best regards > Shad > > > > > > > > 4 years ago I heard people decry that the feeling > of > > seeing light by tibetian monks was simply because > the > > brain activity was reduced to faint minimum which > > caused this feeling and it has nothing spiritual > about > > the process ... > > > > I have since been wondering about the same ! > > > > In nature, where a vaccum is created there is a > > greater tendency for all things to rush towards > the > > vaccum to fill it ... > > > > Does this hold for thoughts per say? what if > creating > > a vaccum of thoughts in the mind intensifies those > > thoughts that come in (single thoughts that are > > allowed in)? This reminds me of the homeopathy > > discussion we had sometime ago ... dilution and > > potentialization increases the healing capacity ! > > > > > > --- vargottama <vargottama> wrote: > > > > > > > > I agree! > > > > > > BTW, since this discussion has gone all the way > > > between science, art > > > and consciousness, some of you may find this > link > > > interesting: > > > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/reith2003/ > > > > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/reith2003/lectures.shtml > > > > > > > > > I highly recommend listening to all 5 lectures, > not > > > only because the > > > lecturer is Indian, but also for the insight, > > > scholarly rigour, > > > perspective and humour. His book is also worth > > > reading. > > > > > > Ram > > > > > > , > > > "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The 'browning out' (great example!) may not > lead > > > to God, but it > > > does > > > > create the canvas for the faint image of > divinity > > > to become > > > apparent. > > > > And for all we know, the faint image could > just be > > > a faint > > > projection > > > > from the source of awareness, the meditator! > As > > > the noise outside > > > > dies down, we become more aware of our > thoughts, > > > and when those > > > > become faint perhaps the background that is > divine > > > gets a chance to > > > > squeak its faint presence. That is about where > the > > > real 'work' of > > > the > > > > soul begins, I suppose! > > > > > > > > A thread can only be as strong as the weakest > link > > > contributed by > > > its > > > > fibers. > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > "vargottama" > > > > <vargottama> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Currently fashionable ideas on the mind > argue > > > that thinking and > > > > > language are evolutionary traits, just like > > > webbed feet and > > > wings. > > > > The > > > > > Thinking and Language traits just happen to > have > > > a wider range of > > > > > application (leading to more humans > surviving > > > than the planet can > > > > > support). > > > > > > > > > > In this view, the idea that animals are > somehow > > > better off than > > > > humans > > > > > may not be teneble, because mind, language, > > > logic, pollution and > === message truncated === Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Dear Surya ji, Pranam. We are all here talk and share things. Share things is divine keeping is opposite. > It's however so difficult to observe your emotions as > they come and go ... specially when your emotions are > strong !! ... But I guess practice helps like in every > other aspect .. Yes observe the emotion and thought in the beginning is difficult! But with time and practice become easy like other things in life. But this is practical self realization! In the end one can realize that the "observer" is different from emotions and thought. The observer is the Atman REAL SELF. Such realization is very high. To be a real Brahmin, means practical realization of the soul and Para- atman. If one goes deeper in this kind of meditation , it may happen that one observe the second observer in the heart. We are NOT ALONE inside of the body and mind. Some meditations are simple but forgotten. Forgotten like the meditation from Shri Hira Ratan Manek . http://www.falconblanco.com/sungazing/manekji.htm Sungazing Shri Hira Ratan Manek Edited extract from the Web site: http://www.solarhealing.com Shri Manek has researched ancient Jain and Hindu Scriptures and experimented on himself under strict medical Scrutiny to Develop a simple and scientific technique of harnessing energy from the Sun and the Earth. He lived without food, on water alone, for a prolonged period of 411 days since several years. He dedicated his life to teaching how our body can gain energy from sources other than food. People who practiced this method have observed negative emotions to drop, chronic illnesses to disappear and all obsession with food become a thing of the past. Shri Manek's method: Is to be practiced standing BAREFOOT on BARE EARTH. No wearing shoes, and no standing on concrete, stone or even on grass in a meadow or lawn (The grass absorbs the solar energy). One has to stand either on sand or on gravel/mud/ earth. Bare feet have to be in contact with the bare earth. Practice this in the open, in the first one hour after sunrise or the last one hour just before sunset. During this time, the sun rays are not too strong, and also the UV radiation etc. is supposed to be lower, so no harm will come to the eyes. Start by simply gazing (or rather, looking) at the sun for 10 seconds only. Do not stare or focus on the sun. Simply just look at it. No stress or strain on the face, facial muscles or eyes. Stand relaxed. No need to maintain an unblinking, unwinking stare. Blink as and when it naturally happens. During the practice, the attitude of "surrender" to the natural divine cosmic sun energy must be there, as also an "auto-suggestion" and implicit belief that this is going to help/heal/nourish you. Increase the time you gaze at the sun by ten seconds each day. In about three months time, you will be doing it for about 15 minutes. At this time, all your mental tensions, problems etc. will go away. This itself is a major thing. If this is your objective, you can stop the practice at this time and go to the "Post sun gazing practice". If you wish to go ahead, continue for another three months, increasing again by ten seconds each day. When you are six months into the practice, you will be somewhere around 30 minutes. At this time, all your physical ailments will also be gone. If this is your objective, you can stop the practice at this time and go to the "Post sun gazing practice". If you wish to go ahead, continue for another three months, increasing again by ten seconds each day. When you are nine months into the practice, you will be somewhere around 44 minutes. This is the maximum. DO NOT EXCEED 44 minutes. You will find that in this period, your hunger slowly goes down until it finally disappears and you have no need for food any more. At this time, sungazing has to be stopped and there is no need to continue the practice any more. According to Shri Manek, during the first three months, the pineal gland is getting activated, and the hypothalamus or pathway to the brain from the eye is getting charged. After that period the solar energy starts reaching your brain and charging it. After this period, the solar energy starts getting stored in each and every cell in your body. When all the cells in the body are charged there is no need to do sungazing any more. Only the post-sun-gazing practice needs to be done to recharge the body. Shri Manek says that we need a lot of energy for digestion of food and for our brain/mind, to deal with all the mental problems, depression, negative emotions etc. He says that since the sun gazing has removed all his mental problems, he is calm and cool so no energy is used/lost here. Since he is not eating any more, no energy for digestion is required either. So his energy needs are greatly reduced and he can easily meet them without needing food! Post Sun Gazing Practice: Simply walk barefoot on bare earth for 45 minutes a day! Conclusion: There is no urge to carry on doing sungazing for nine months until you reach 44 minutes. You can stop the practice whenever – at three months, six months etc. You will get the benefits accordingly. If there is a problem of macular degeneration, Shri Manek suggests to do the following modified exercise: Look at the sun for a second or so. Then close your eyes and "see" the image of the sun in the "third eye" (ajna chakra – middle of the eyebrows). Keep focusing on this mental image as long as it persists. When the image goes away, open the eyes and just look at the sun once again, and then repeat the process (focus on the image with closed eyes). Repeat a third time. Do this until the image persists for about 5-6 minutes. At this time, the macular problem will be healed, and then you can do the regular practice. Best regards Shad Om namaha sivaya Om namaha narayanaya , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv> wrote: > Dear Shad, > > I understand what you are saying. At the same time, I > presume it's ok to talk and share things that you cant > get in grips with and learning about what others who > are better than u know or think. It's a process of > learning to me ... > > This is not to say that things that I discuss > influence my spiritual aspirations totally! ... it's > probably just a gamble to learn what I dont know ... > > It's however so difficult to observe your emotions as > they come and go ... specially when your emotions are > strong !! ... But I guess practice helps like in every > other aspect .. > > Good thoughts those !! > > Thanks, > Surya. > > > --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote: > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Dear Shri Shadji, Namaskarams.It is good post and is very responsive. Thanx Krishnan Shad <waterpowers wrote: Dear Surya ji, Pranam. We are all here talk and share things. Share things is divine keeping is opposite. > It's however so difficult to observe your emotions as > they come and go ... specially when your emotions are > strong !! ... But I guess practice helps like in every > other aspect .. Yes observe the emotion and thought in the beginning is difficult! But with time and practice become easy like other things in life. But this is practical self realization! In the end one can realize that the "observer" is different from emotions and thought. The observer is the Atman REAL SELF. Such realization is very high. To be a real Brahmin, means practical realization of the soul and Para- atman. If one goes deeper in this kind of meditation , it may happen that one observe the second observer in the heart. We are NOT ALONE inside of the body and mind. Some meditations are simple but forgotten. Forgotten like the meditation from Shri Hira Ratan Manek . http://www.falconblanco.com/sungazing/manekji.htm Sungazing Shri Hira Ratan Manek Edited extract from the Web site: http://www.solarhealing.com Shri Manek has researched ancient Jain and Hindu Scriptures and experimented on himself under strict medical Scrutiny to Develop a simple and scientific technique of harnessing energy from the Sun and the Earth. He lived without food, on water alone, for a prolonged period of 411 days since several years. He dedicated his life to teaching how our body can gain energy from sources other than food. People who practiced this method have observed negative emotions to drop, chronic illnesses to disappear and all obsession with food become a thing of the past. Shri Manek's method: Is to be practiced standing BAREFOOT on BARE EARTH. No wearing shoes, and no standing on concrete, stone or even on grass in a meadow or lawn (The grass absorbs the solar energy). One has to stand either on sand or on gravel/mud/ earth. Bare feet have to be in contact with the bare earth. Practice this in the open, in the first one hour after sunrise or the last one hour just before sunset. During this time, the sun rays are not too strong, and also the UV radiation etc. is supposed to be lower, so no harm will come to the eyes. Start by simply gazing (or rather, looking) at the sun for 10 seconds only. Do not stare or focus on the sun. Simply just look at it. No stress or strain on the face, facial muscles or eyes. Stand relaxed. No need to maintain an unblinking, unwinking stare. Blink as and when it naturally happens. During the practice, the attitude of "surrender" to the natural divine cosmic sun energy must be there, as also an "auto-suggestion" and implicit belief that this is going to help/heal/nourish you. Increase the time you gaze at the sun by ten seconds each day. In about three months time, you will be doing it for about 15 minutes. At this time, all your mental tensions, problems etc. will go away. This itself is a major thing. If this is your objective, you can stop the practice at this time and go to the "Post sun gazing practice". If you wish to go ahead, continue for another three months, increasing again by ten seconds each day. When you are six months into the practice, you will be somewhere around 30 minutes. At this time, all your physical ailments will also be gone. If this is your objective, you can stop the practice at this time and go to the "Post sun gazing practice". If you wish to go ahead, continue for another three months, increasing again by ten seconds each day. When you are nine months into the practice, you will be somewhere around 44 minutes. This is the maximum. DO NOT EXCEED 44 minutes. You will find that in this period, your hunger slowly goes down until it finally disappears and you have no need for food any more. At this time, sungazing has to be stopped and there is no need to continue the practice any more. According to Shri Manek, during the first three months, the pineal gland is getting activated, and the hypothalamus or pathway to the brain from the eye is getting charged. After that period the solar energy starts reaching your brain and charging it. After this period, the solar energy starts getting stored in each and every cell in your body. When all the cells in the body are charged there is no need to do sungazing any more. Only the post-sun-gazing practice needs to be done to recharge the body. Shri Manek says that we need a lot of energy for digestion of food and for our brain/mind, to deal with all the mental problems, depression, negative emotions etc. He says that since the sun gazing has removed all his mental problems, he is calm and cool so no energy is used/lost here. Since he is not eating any more, no energy for digestion is required either. So his energy needs are greatly reduced and he can easily meet them without needing food! Post Sun Gazing Practice: Simply walk barefoot on bare earth for 45 minutes a day! Conclusion: There is no urge to carry on doing sungazing for nine months until you reach 44 minutes. You can stop the practice whenever – at three months, six months etc. You will get the benefits accordingly. If there is a problem of macular degeneration, Shri Manek suggests to do the following modified exercise: Look at the sun for a second or so. Then close your eyes and "see" the image of the sun in the "third eye" (ajna chakra – middle of the eyebrows). Keep focusing on this mental image as long as it persists. When the image goes away, open the eyes and just look at the sun once again, and then repeat the process (focus on the image with closed eyes). Repeat a third time. Do this until the image persists for about 5-6 minutes. At this time, the macular problem will be healed, and then you can do the regular practice. Best regards Shad Om namaha sivaya Om namaha narayanaya , surya vishnubhotla <surya_prakashv> wrote: > Dear Shad, > > I understand what you are saying. At the same time, I > presume it's ok to talk and share things that you cant > get in grips with and learning about what others who > are better than u know or think. It's a process of > learning to me ... > > This is not to say that things that I discuss > influence my spiritual aspirations totally! ... it's > probably just a gamble to learn what I dont know ... > > It's however so difficult to observe your emotions as > they come and go ... specially when your emotions are > strong !! ... But I guess practice helps like in every > other aspect .. > > Good thoughts those !! > > Thanks, > Surya. > > > --- Shad <waterpowers> wrote: > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL !~ Sponsor Children InternationalGive a Child the gift of Hope this Holiday season ·Click Here to meet a Boy And Change His Life·Click Here to meet a Girl And Give Her Hope Learn More / Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.