Guest guest Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 Thank you very for your insights, Shripal. They are greatly appreciated by me. I agree with 100 percent on what you said. Transiting Saturn was conjuncting my Ketu in 12th when I was in mainstream kindergarten and in special ed with the mentally retarded in 1st grade. At that time period, my mother married my stepfather. That was long bad marriage. They got divorced in 1991. My mother also had cervical cancer crises at the time. Transiting Saturn was conjunct her 5th/12th house lord Venus in 2nd. I feel that is why she experienced bad crap at the same time with me. Man....it seems like Ketu in 12th really sucks...I thought it was one of those "Damn....why me,God....I feel like I am cursed" placements. heheheeh That's how I felt throughout my life. Studying my Vedic Astrology chart and reading my Vedic Astrology report really gave me insight to what my karma is. I didn't know that you can use square aspects by Rahu and Ketu. I never read that anywhere,but I suspected that Rahu and Ketu squaring my Sun can indicate why I loss my mother and his drug addictive personality. My Sun is in Swati which is ruled by Rahu,and that can be an indicator. My father was extremely sensitive and intense person,and he had a violent temper too. So Mars aspecting my Sun in 3rd house makes sense. Do you use moon as the ascendant too? I have debiliated Sun in 9th,and that could indicate problems with father. With Ketu square the Sun in 9th, it can definitely be loss of father. With Rahu square the Sun in 9th,a father with addiction problems. Both my parents had substance abuse issues,and I feel that could because both my Moon and Sun are in nakshastra ruled by Rahu. My Moon is in Satabisha. I read that Satabisha has to do with health issues and substance abuse issues. How is Ketu aspected by 3rd aspect of Mars? How does that work? I know that Mars aspects the 4th,7th,and 8th houses from itself. I know that my Mars aspects doesn't make those aspects to Ketu. I was in the navy for 7 yrs,and it sucked. I had depression there. I have service connected disability for depression. I only got a 10 percent rating,and received 100 dollars per month for 3 yrs. Now I have my disability upgraded to 70 percent,and now I get 1,000 dollars per month. Money is no problem for me right now. I received a lot of money from backpay from VA and social security for bipolar diagnosis. I feel that my 8th house lord Jupiter in Scorpio in 4th aspecting 8th house is why I have some luck with unearned money. Could you please give me a list of books to learn Vedic Astrology from? I really love Vedic Astrology. It's so accurate that it's scary! hehehehehe Thanks Raymond , Shripal <d_shripal> wrote: > Hi, > > 1)Rahu and Ketu in Capricon and Cancer > respectively.Rahu in Capricon make a individual > inclined to sadness, love of solitude,shrewdness and > diplomacy.It gives wealth,but you don't desire and not > very ambitious too.Ketu in Cancer gives fickleless > love,he is surrounded by many secrets and mystriuos > things.even prone to accident or danger while > travelling.However Jupiter apect that too is not > powerful in totally mitigating this effect. > > 2)Dispositor of Cancer where Ketu is placed is highly > afflicted my Mars and Saturn.Ketu is afflicted by 3rd > aspect of Mars and Mars squaring saturn,so loss of > mother is iminent,may be mentally,physically,etc.As > moon is good in Navmasa,may be that may be reason why > she didn't die,But still being with you ,she will > never be with you. > > 3)Sun is debiliated and squared by Rahu and Ketu.as I > said ketu is afflicted to much.And in Navmasa sun is > debilated and aspected by Saturn and Mars so he also > died.Ketu even represents your ancestor,so even your > grandfather had done a suicide. > > 4)Know ketu being in 12th,It is a most unfortunate > position,It causes incessant worries and troubles > during the whole period of occupying this house, or > when it passes through it again, unless benefic > aspects from other planets are in operation at the > same time,like in your case jupiter,but that too is > afflicted by Saturn,which is influenced by Mars. It > causes loss of money, and unsatisfactory business > transactions. It makes powerul enemies and merciless > creditors, and is also a sign of ill-health and > troubles of all kinds. > > 5)One more thing about ketu being in 12th,it gives the > person with a talent for working with the sick or > mentally insecure. It gives a drive to seek seclusion > and an inclination to meditate. With bad aspects it > could give an alienation from society. This position > seems to be karmic; and there is a very definite > secret, sacrificial service of some kind involved, > depending upon sign and aspects. The person with the > Ketu in the twelfth house may have a martyr complex, > which must be used at its highest in sacrificial > service and delving into the secrets of the > subconscious, bringing them to the light of the > conscious mind. This position gives many nurses and > doctors. > > 6)Life is mostly built towards outward life with fear > and imagination.Currently you are going through > Saturn Mahadasa,which is not good in Birth and Navmasa > chart both.So till 2021 ,I don't know,still what all > thing you have to go through.But one thing is for > sure,you will be more into spiritual things,and more > you indulge yourself into those thing,more your life > will be beautiful.Be like a saturn or imbibe saturn > qualities in you,help poorer ro mentally ill > person,that remedie will definately help you. > > > --- astynaz <astynaz> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have Ketu in Cancer in 12th which is aspected by > > 6th/7th house lord > > Saturn in Taurus in 10th and 5th/8th house lord > > Jupiter in Scorpio in > > 4th. My Ketu in Cancer is disposited by Moon in > > Aquarius in 7th > > house. My Moon is in Satabisha. I also have Rahu in > > Capricorn in > > 12th house from the Moon. No planets aspect my Rahu. > > > > I am very interested in spirituality,but I don't > > believe in being > > part of any organized religion. I am preparing for a > > career in the > > holistic healing field. > > > > I am also a person with a history of > > Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,and ADD. I > > have been in the special ed system for 3 years(1st > > and 2nd grade > > which I repeated). I was mistakened as mentally > > retarded and was > > ridiculed by normal kids for being in special > > ed,having coordination > > and speech problems. I have above average > > intelligence. I do have 1st > > house lord Sun, 2nd/11th house lord Mercury,3rd/10th > > house lord Venus > > in Libra in 3rd house,and so it aspects the 9th > > house. I also have > > Sun,Mercury,and Venus in 9th house from the Moon. I > > have been > > misdiagnosed as schizoaffective bipolar disorder. A > > lot of adult > > ADDers are misdiagnosed as bipolar too. I went to a > > psychologist for > > learning disability/ADHD assessment. I was diagnosed > > inattentive type > > ADHD,Generalized Anxiety Disorder,Dysthymic > > Disorder,Avoidant > > Personality Disorder,and per history:Developmental > > Coordination > > Disorder(notably in past). She didn't diagnose me > > with any bipolar > > nor psychotic disorder like those psychiatrists did. > > She actually > > listened to me and my mother. She did psychological > > testing. The > > psychiatrists never did that with me. I don't trust > > psychiatrists at > > all. I wonder if my Ketu in 6th house from the Moon > > has anything to > > do with being misdiagnosed as well as > > hypersensitivity to > > medications. I get side effects easily from > > medications because of my > > hypersensitive body. My Saturn is 4th house from the > > Moon and aspects > > my Ketu in 6th house. My mother has health problems > > including > > Depression,Anxiety,Diabetes,Hepatitis C,and Asthma. > > She was shot when > > I was 3 yrs old,and I was with her when it happened. > > She had a blood > > transfusion,and that is why she has Hepatitis C. She > > is disabled from > > the shooting. She hasn't worked since 1993. > > > > I am multiethnic too > > > (Black,Portuguese,English,German,French,Italian,Puerto > > Rican,Native > > American,and Jewish) I have dealt with prejudice > > because of my mixed > > ethnic background by both blacks and whites. It is > > my mixed ethnic > > background that helped me believe in unity and > > universal love. My > > mother told me that my father believed the same. > > > > > > I feel that I have heavy karma. I feel that my > > great suffering has > > led to me having great compassion for people. I have > > experienced > > losses too. I never knew my father. He was out of my > > life when I was > > a year old. My mother showed me a picture when I was > > 6 yrs old to > > show her who my father was. He had drug problems. He > > also had speech > > problems like me including stammering and > > stuttering. My maternal > > grandfather committed suicide on Jan 25, 1998. His > > death changed me. > > It was a catalyst for me. I got back into believing > > in God again > > after 2 years of atheism. I got more interested in > > the metaphysical. > > > > > > Transiting Ketu was conjunct my 12th house lord Moon > > in 7th when he > > committed suicide. > > > > I believe that great gain can result from a great > > loss. > > > > > > I definitely can relate to my Ketu in Cancer in 12th > > > > > > > > october 29, 1971 > > 3:20 am > > san francisco, california > > > > > > Raymond > > > > > > > > > > Raymond > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > Hello Members, > > > Still we r not able to decide what is appropriate > > and not in our > > group discussions.If we this is the platform chosen > > beyond the scope > > and objectivity of sharing our knowledge and > > experience,certainly we > > need to alert and caution.What Mr Tanvir has > > attempted is the > > same.Incase the opinion of group is: > > > "why should > > > the truth not be objectively assessed?" > > > let us flash back and find is it the topic in the > > perview of this > > group to assess?Who are we and to whom we are posing > > these isues and > > what %people have interst to debate on these issues > > and with results. > > > I think Mr Manvir ji and other would also think > > and early effort > > will be made to think more on subject of Nodes than > > make other issues > > as nodal to seek opinions. > > > p.s:Views on nodes are in tune iwth classics > > except that in reality > > when these r conjoined with other planets they > > imitate as the planets > > with whic they are associated.In my case Rahu is > > associated with Mars > > in a sthira rasi(Taurus) in 6th and ketu alone and > > unaspected by any > > planet in vrischik in 12th.let me also add my 8H is > > of cancer in > > which saturn.Venus and sun are associated. > > > unless we get into D/9 to delineate and confirm > > all these musings > > only add to theoritical perspective. > > > One of my friend happened to be twin(eldest) has > > experience and > > belief that his Ketu in it's dasa made him to get > > all > > recognitions.This is the case with his other brother > > whose birth > > happend just after 10 mts . > > > so we have lot of instances where ketu made a > > spoil sport and > > reduced a brilliant student in his prime age unto > > oblivion. > > > Also a case of drug addict in his 25s made him to > > succumb to a > > premature death(by Rahu?) > > > All inferences have to be made by taking into > > wholistic approach > > including stellar positions to add in to our theory > > of Nodes. > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > maniv78 <maniv78> wrote: > > > > > > I must agree with this point. I have struggled > > invariably when > > > applying the dictum that Ketu is like Mars and > > Rahu like Saturn in > > > my experiences with countless charts. > > > > > > We all know that: > > > > > > Saturn makes one detached, introspective and > > seperative; > > > Ketu makes one introverted, psychic and 'weird'; > > > Mars makes one aggressive, active and dynamic; > > > Rahu makes one opportunistic, violent and loaded > > with excessive > > > desires; > > > > > > And that Ketu is commonly placed in the signs that > > signify satwic > > > tendencies (Pisces /Capricorn/ Sagittarius) in the > > charts of great > > > spiritualists. Rahu's opposite placement in > > materialistic signs > > > (Virgo/Cancer (mildly)/Gemini) in these > > configurations clearly > > > indicate its disconnection with satwic > > inclinations which is more > > in > > > line with nature of Mars then that of Saturn. > > > > > > Thus a logical conclusion with the above in mind > > would be that > > > Saturn is in fact more like Ketu and Mars like > > Rahu. Of course, > > Mars > > > does have similarities with Ketu (technical > > faculties, intensity); > > > and Saturn with Rahu (addictions, vices); but they > > fail to form > > > conclusive parallels when considering the key > > significations. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > P.S. Tanvirji, your very personal reaction to > > Mukund's post, (which > > > was not aimed at you initially) has depreciated my > > respect for you > > > greatly. Your response was clearly driven by an > > urge to demonstrate > > > your superior knowledge, qualify the drawbacks of > > Islam by > > > disqualifying certain aspects of Hinduism and the > > ego created by > > > your status as owner of this group. > > > No one participating on this board is irrational > > enough to believe > > > that Muslims as a whole are terrorists; general > > statements about > > > religious groups/castes/races never have > > substance. However the > > > indisputable fact remains that the majority of > > terrorist activity > > is > > > carried out by groups that come under the banner > > of Islam. Maybe > > > it's politically incorrect to make such > > statements; but why should > > > the truth not be objectively assessed? > > > I realize that this is board for discussions on > > Jyotish and related > > > spiritualism so I apologize for lengthening this > > thread. If you had > > > warned Mukundji politely and then subsequently > > ignored his reaction > > > to your allegations about his character then > > perhaps this line of > > > debate could have been avoided altogether. > > > > > > > > > , "maniv78" > > <maniv78> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > , Shripal > > <d_shripal> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Let me clarify,you must be knowing Jup+ Ketu > > gives us > > > > > a spiritual Inclination.You you have analysed > > several > > > > > charts ,you will also find,people who are > > having > > > > > Jup+Sat are also spritually inclined.Have you > > ever > > > > > heard Jup+ Mars give a spiritual > > inclination,than Ketu > > > > > like Mars holds false. > > > > > > > > > > Let's forget about this too,Forget about myth > > too,know > > > > > since ages astrology has changed a lot and be > > > > > practical. > > > > > > > > > > So know even Jaataka is not wrong.What I said > > was > > > > > malefic part,Let me tell you benefic part.If > > ketu is > > > > > Good ,it act like Mars and If Rahu is Bad it > > act like > > > > > Saturn,that's what you are saying.What I am > > saying is > > > > > very practical,Isn't it?.Try yourself in diff > > > > > charts,you will come to know. > > > > > > > > > > Shadow planets don't have aspect,even 7th > > aspect is > > > > > not there.But they influence various houses in > > > > > chart,because bottom line they are shadow > > planets.What > > > > > is shadow.All materialistic things which > > exists in > > > > > this world we always have a shadow.So planets > > squaring > > > > > it up,aspecting, or some how connected with > > > > > planets,there shadows are reflected on other > > > > > house,That's how they get a good and bad > > results of > > > > > that house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- kadrudra <kadrudra> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friend, > > > > > > > > > > > > Till now I have been hearing 'SHANIVAD RAHU > > - > > > > > > KUJAVAT KETHU'[Rahu > > > > > > like Saturn and Kethu like Mars] principle > > from > > > > > > JAATAKA > > > > > > texts whereas TAAJIKA/TAAJAKA groups both > > the nodes > > > > > > similar to SATURN > > > > > > [....sheShamanyat ca MANDAVAT...(Prs Mrg.)]. > > > > > > > > > > > > In your post: > > > > > > > > > > > > >AS per myth,Ketu is a Malefic nature of > > > > > > Saturn,that's > > > > > > >why is makes one suffer too much,in order > > to divert > > > > > > >him towards Spirituality.while Rahu takes > > benefic > > > > > > >nature of Jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am eager to know which text supports the > > above > > > > > > statement, as I have > > > > > > not heard of this MYTH till now. > > > > > > If you could share some PRACTICAL > > examples(charts) > > > > > > with the group > > > > > > using THIS principle, it would be better > > understood. > > > > > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > Shripal > > > > > > <d_shripal> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Article contains almost all qualities of > > Rahu and > > > > > > Ketu > > > > > > > as individual and every word retun is true > > in all > > > > > > > respect.Something addition to that.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu and Ketu are both unsatisfied > > soul,which are > > > > > > > striving for Moksha.As they are even known > > as a > > > > > > Shadow > > > > > > > planets.Shadow of each and everything > > which exist > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > materialistic in this world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder why GOds never had a shadow,as they > > are > > > > > > free > > > > > > > souls from deception of Rahu and Ketu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AS per myth,Ketu is a Malefic nature of > > > > > > Saturn,that's > > > > > > > why is makes one suffer too much,in order > > to > > > > > > divert > > > > > > > him towards Spirituality.while Rahu takes > > benefic > > > > > > > nature of Jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu casts a favorable, fortunate, > > cheerful, > > > > > > > affectionate, expansive, optimistic and > > popular > > > > > > > influence over the affairs of the house in > > which > > > > > > it > > > > > > > falls, brings out the more positive > > potentials of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > sign in which it is placed, and favours > > the > > > > > > functions > > > > > > > and energies signified by any planets or > > points to > > > > > > > which it forms a conjunction or harmonious > > aspect > > > > > > > (with the Moon especially bringing benefit > > and > > > > > > gains). > > > > > > > The Ketu, casts a malefic, harmful > > influence upon, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > brings binding, delaying or impeding > > restrictions > > > > > > or > > > > > > > obligations in relation to the affairs of > > the > > > > > > house it > > > > > > > occupies; brings out the more negative > > potentials > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the sign in which it is posited and > > disfavours > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > in conjuction or inharmonious aspect with > > it (the > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > particularly bringing losses and > > troubles). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But other look of this Moon Node's Rahu > > and Ketu > > > > > > is > > > > > > > relating to one's subconscious Attachment > > vs > > > > > > Conscious > > > > > > > growth.Ketu represents subconscious > > motivations > > > > > > that > > > > > > > stem from the past and to which there is > > an inner > > > > > > > inclination to cling although they may no > > longer > > > > > > be > > > > > > > relevant or appropriate to the > > individual's > > > > > > situation > > > > > > > and prospects, while the Rahu represents > > conscious > > > > > > > motivations relevant to the present and > > future, > > > > > > > characterised by a desire for the > > unfoldment of > > > > > > > appropriate changes in personal > > psychology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ketu indicates capabilities and faculties > > > > > > inherited > > > > > > > from former incarnations or 'past lives', > > while > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Rahu shows the ideal direction for > > > > > > self-development in > > > > > > > the current incarnation in order to attain > > > > > > ultimate > > > > > > > spiritual fulfilment and the successful > > > > > > realisation of > > > > > > > one's pre-chosen evolutionary goals from > > this > > > > > > > lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever any thought why Two are there(Rahu > > and Ketu) > > > > > > and > > > > > > > not only one of them exist.That too they > > are > > > > > > opposite > > > > > > > to each other all the time and > > retograting.I am > > > > > > not > > > > > > > talking in terms of there technical > > > > > > existence.Reason > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > Ketu principles are not to be completely > > > > > > overthrown > > > > > > > and discarded, but rather kept in > > harmonious > > > > > > balance > > > > > > > with those of the Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is regarded as a goal of new growth > > the > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > for which is a dimly illuminated struggle. > > > > > > Harmonious > > > > > > > aspects and benefic conjunctions to the > > Rahu will > > > > > > > indicate relatively easy progress along > > the > > > > > > journey > > > > > > > towards this goal, while inharmonious > > aspects and > > > > > > > malefic conjunctions will indicate > > difficulties. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > individual will frequently, on > > encountering > > > > > > obstacles, > > > > > > > be consciously inclined to give up and > > return to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > safety of the Ketu, through weakness of > > resolve > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > than through absolute force or obligation. > > But as > > > > > > > always with stressful aspects, the > > ultimate > > > > > > rewards of > > > > > > > achievement can be greater and more > > spiritually > > > > > > > satisfying than would be attained by an > > easy > > > > > > passage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aspects to the nodes, both natally and by > > transit > > > > > > and > > > > > > > progression, show the manner in which the > > > > > > development > > > > > > > towards the Rahu goals will be worked out. > > > > > > > Conjunctions to the Rahu induce forced > > growth; > > > > > > while > > > > > > > those to the Ketu encourage conditioned > > responses. > > > > > > > Squares accentuate the conflict of > > interest > > > > > > between > > > > > > > the nodes, and pull the individual towards > > the > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > and house placement of the squared > > planet.It > > > > > > creates a > > > > > > > tension for a individual in there growth. > > > > > > Quincunxes > > > > > > > to the Rahu show a misperceieved notion of > > the > > > > > > means > > > > > > > to attain growth. Sextiles bring > > opportunities for > > > > > > > constructive growth, while trines bring > > easy > > > > > > > growth.That you all must be knowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will soon be coming with Article Nodes > > in > > > > > > > Synastry.Detail explanation about our > > interaction > > > > > > with > > > > > > > daily life materialistic objects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- yogita purohit <yogitapurohit> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to put forth an article of > > Rahu > > > > > > which I > > > > > > > > have among my collection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Jyotish, the ancient astrological > > system of > > > > > > > > India, the lunar nodes are major points > > in natal > > > > > > > > chart and are closely looked at, > > especially in > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > transit movements through the birth > > chart. As > > > > > > > > opposed to Western astrological systems > > which > > > > > > tends > > > > > > > > to view nodes as favourable influences, > > Jyotish > > > > > > > > regards the lunar nodes as malefic > > forces, > > > > > > > > responsible for chronic diseases, loss, > > > > > > sufferings, > > > > > > > > "fatedEcataclysmic events and other > > maladies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In western astrology there is a strong > > tendency > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > view the lunar nodes as something to do > > with > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > karma—the accumulated lesson's of one > > past > > > > > > lives. In > > > > > > > > this view, popularized by such authors > > as Martin > > > > > > > > Schulman of Karmic Astrology series, the > > north > > > > > > nde > > > > > > > > represents what we should be striving > > towards in > > > > > > > > this life time, a sort of karmic goal > > for us to > > > > > > > > reach. The south node is viewed as the > > past that > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > need to hold behind and not hold onto. > > > > > > Proponents of > > > > > > > > this view contend, that by looking at > > the sign > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > house placements of the nodes, one's > > karmic past > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > destiny can be ascertained. Curiously > > nodes are > > > > > > > > given rather strong importance in natal > > chart > > > > > > > > interpretation, but are seldom looked at > > closely > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > transit analysis of the here and now of > > one's > > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the Uranian and Cosmobiological > > system of > > > > > > > > Germany, the nodes are interpreted as > > having a > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > to do with interpersonal relationships, > > rather > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > karma. Alfred Witte founder of the > > Uranian > > > > > > > > astrological system strongly propounded > > this > > > > > > view. > > > > > > > > The nodes were regarded as key in > > determining > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > social the person was and, as opposed to > > the > > > > > > > > American view, looked in at the transit > > > > > > analysis. > > > > > > > > Aspects from the nodes to other planet > > would > > > > > > > > indicate where and what nature one's > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > > would be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Vedic astrological system, however, > > while the > > > > > > > > nodes may have something to do with > > one's karma > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > may involve relationships with others, > > they are > > > > > > > > inherently viewed as evil cosmic > > influences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We all know about the story of origin of > > Rahu > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > how separation of Rahu and ketu occured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, Rahu had managed to taste > > and > > > > > > swallow > > > > > > > > the amrita just before the dismemberment > > and > > > > > > > > therefore was unable to be killed. > > Because of > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > immortality Rahu and Ketu exists > > eternally in > > > > > > > > heavens. Due to it's exposure by sun and > > moon, > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > nodes are sworn enemies of those 2 > > planets, > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > the darkening of Sun and Moon during > > solar and > > > > > > lunar > > > > > > > > eclipse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU—THE ROLLER COASTER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As can be deduced from the origin or > > story of > > > > > > rahu , > > > > > > > > that rahu is an excellent liar as it was > > able to > > > > > > > > deceive even the gods, if only > > temporarily. In > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Vedic system, the north node, rahu has > > rulership > > > > > > > > over con artists, liars, illusions and > > cheats, > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > > rahu is only the head and part of the > > body of an > > > > > > > > immortal demon it is always constantly > > hungy, > > > > > > > > whatever food eaten never reaches the > > whole body > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > rahu is only head and mouth. And because > > of this > > > > > > > > rahu is viewed as insatiable material > > desires . > > > > > > Now > > > > > > > > matter how much it gets it always wants > > more and > > > > > > > > because of this rahu is closely > > associated with > > > > > > > > addictions and obsessive/compulsive > > behaviour > > > > > > > > patterns. Accordingly rahu rules > > poisons, drugs, > > > > > > > > alcoholism, addicts, compulsive > > gambling, sex > > > > > > > > addiction, and pleasure seeking. Rahu > > also rules > > > > > > > > worries, paranoia and irrational fears. > > Because > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > is demon and inheetely evil it also has > > domain > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > sufferings in general, especially > > chronic > > > > > > diseases > > > > > > > > and events that are sudden and seem > > fated and > > > > > > > > tragic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because Rahu had the audacity to > > impersonate a > > > > > > god, > > > > > > > > at a considerable risk to itself( a > > gamble which > > > > > > > > eventually was lost by demon body > > leading to > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > separation). Rahu is associated with > > reckless > > > > > > > > behaviour and of taking chances. Rahu > > can make > > > > > > > > people do things they otherwise would > > not by > > > > > > making > > > > > > > > them throw caution to wind and thinking > > that > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > can get away with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A final lesson to be gleaned from the > > vedic myth > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > that Rahu's gains are always temporary. > > In the > > > > > > myth > > > > > > > > rahu did manage to deceive gods for a > > while, but > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > found at the end and suffered for it. > > Likewise, > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > well placd in one's chart, rahu may give > > > > > > material > > > > > > > > success, drive, fame and ambition, but > > these > > > > > > gifts > > > > > > > > are fleeting and temporary. It is a > > virtual > > > > > > axiom in > > > > > > > > Jyotish that whatever is gained with > > rahu's > > > > > > > > influence will eventually flitter away > > and be > > > > > > lost. > > > > > > > > One of the great lesson rahu teaches is > > this : > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > can't take it with you .The moment you > > think > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > you have attained lasting success > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the material world is exactly the > > moment when > > > > > > > > rahu will take away that success, > > leaving you > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > for what you lost and you cannot have it > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KETU—THE CRUEL ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ketu is the headless body of rahu called > > as > > > > > > dragon's > > > > > > > > tail. Astrologically ketu is exact > > opposite of > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > Whereas rahu is pure physicality and > > materialism > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > ketu is pure spirituality and > > non-materiality. > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > this respect ketu acts like Neptune. But > > ketu's > > > > > > > > spirituality comes with heavy price tag. > > It is > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > all, a half of demon. Ketu brings > > spirituality > > > > > > onto > > > > > > > > people by making them suffer. It is > > almost as if > > > > > > > > ketu creates many disasters in a > > person's life, > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > no one has choice but to turn to divine > > for help > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > solace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since ketu is non-physical and > > non-material, > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > influence creates denial and sometimes > > > > > > abandonment. > > > > > > > > For example, a person with Ketu closely > > conjunct > > > > > > > > midpoint of the 4th house of the mother > > will > > > > > > > > typically report that their mother was > > > > > > emotionally > > > > > > > > or physically unavailable when the > > person was > > > > > > > > growing up. Ketu can be very mystic, > > occult, > > > > > > psychic > > > > > > > > and intuitive, but it can also bring > > with it > > > > > > > > isolation, loss, misery and abuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the key things to be aware of > > with ketu > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > that it rules diseases of unknown origin > > (like > > > > > > > > cancer, multiple sclerosis, parkinson's > > etc.,)or > > > > > > > > disease that can get misdiagonised or > > mistreated > > > > > > > > this is because of ketu's hidden, > > mysterious > > > > > > > > quality. It can be most insidious > > influence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from the article given above I > > would also > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > to mention certain more points on the > > nodes > > > > > > which I > > > > > > > > come across while studying different > > horoscopes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is usually seen and also mentioned in > > the > > > > > > article > > > > > > > > given above rahu and ketu are > > unsatisfied nodes. > > > > > > E.g > > > > > > > > for this I would like to mention here is > > that I > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > working as an astrologer with a very > > reputed > > > > > > > > businessman of Mumbai who was filthy > > rich and > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > having all materialistic pleasures of > > life he > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > unsatisfied and that age (his age is > > near about > > > > > > > > 55-60) he use to often complain about > > having > > > > > > > > dissatisfied physical relationship with > > his > > > > > > wife, he > > > > > > > > felt still there is something lacking to > > make > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > more popular world wide, he had past > > broken > > > > > > affair > > > > > > > > and at this age too he was longing a > > > > > > companionship > > > > > > > > with young females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Studying his horoscope it was seen that > > his was > > > > > > > > Taurus asc. With Rahu in it and ketu- > > guru in > > > > > > > > scorpio. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Although rahu did not give him disturbed > > or > > > > > > broken > > > > > > > > marriage life he is still with wife may > > be due > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > presence of Jupiter in 7th could be > > saving point > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > his marital life (here I want group > > member to > > > > > > > > discuss what would have made him save > > his > > > > > > marriage) > > > > > > > > but he has grudges against his wife. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the second point I have seen is > > Mars and > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > mostly in 7th and 5th houses in > > horoscopes > > > > > > > > (irrespective of signs placed) have > > given those > > > > > > > > native questionable characters and > > sometimes > > > > > > even to > > > > > > > > the extent of satisfying their physical > > desires > > > > > > > > before marriage and afterwards getting > > separated > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > married elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What points in this planetary > > combinations gives > > > > > > > > such effects does Mars has something to > > do with > > > > > > > > character of person apart from it hot > > qualities > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > rashness, arroagancy, forceful energy > > drives > > > > > > etc., > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would welcome points or discussion > > from Rupji > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > respected members of the group > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanking You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yogita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page > > ETry > > > > > > My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > "Love is friendship set to music." > > > > > > > "Love conquers all." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best > > spam > > > > > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > "Love is friendship set to music." > > > > > "Love conquers all." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL > > !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > To from this group, send an email > > to: > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read only the mail you want - Mail > > SpamGuard. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > "Love is friendship set to music." > "Love conquers all." > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 I had a dyslexic moment when I typed "why I loss my mother and his drug addictive personality." I meant " why I lost my father and his drug addictive personality." Saying the wrong things is one of my Dyslexic symptoms. President Bush does the same thing. heheheheeh Thanks again for your astrological insights. I am going to copy and file for reference. I feel that my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD motivates me to help others and that's why I am studying to be a holistic health practitioner. I might help special needs children. My girlfriend, Traci is Dyslexic and ADHD,and she worked with special needs children. She is very spiritual and ultrasensitive like me too. I know that there is a strong chance that our children will be Dyslexic and ADHD. I hope that they don't end up on Ritalin. I hope they don't get called "retard" by other children. I hope that they don't get placed in special ed either. I don't want them being mistakened for being stupid which happens to lot of Dyslexic and ADHD children. I will do whatever I can to prevent them for going through what I went through as a child. Traci will do the same,and she has much experience with special needs kids. She will know what to do with our children. Too much emphasis on normal here in USA. Traci is white,and so it's an interracial relationship. I know that if we have children, they could go through hardships because of both mixed ethnicity just like I went through. She understands that too. I feel that Rahu in 7th house from Moon indicates her interest in interracial relationships. I have Venus conj Rahu in my Navamsha chart. Traci Feb 10, 1978 Allentown,Pennsylvania 2:58 AM Raymond , "astynaz" <astynaz> wrote: > > > Thank you very for your insights, Shripal. They are greatly > appreciated by me. I agree with 100 percent on what you said. > Transiting Saturn was conjuncting my Ketu in 12th when I was in > mainstream kindergarten and in special ed with the mentally retarded > in 1st grade. At that time period, my mother married my stepfather. > That was long bad marriage. They got divorced in 1991. My mother also > had cervical cancer crises at the time. Transiting Saturn was > conjunct her 5th/12th house lord Venus in 2nd. I feel that is why she > experienced bad crap at the same time with me. > > > Man....it seems like Ketu in 12th really sucks...I thought it was one > of those "Damn....why me,God....I feel like I am cursed" placements. > heheheeh That's how I felt throughout my life. Studying my Vedic > Astrology chart and reading my Vedic Astrology report really gave me > insight to what my karma is. > > > I didn't know that you can use square aspects by Rahu and Ketu. I > never read that anywhere,but I suspected that Rahu and Ketu squaring > my Sun can indicate why I loss my mother and his drug addictive > personality. My Sun is in Swati which is ruled by Rahu,and that can > be an indicator. My father was extremely sensitive and intense > person,and he had a violent temper too. So Mars aspecting my Sun in > 3rd house makes sense. > > > Do you use moon as the ascendant too? I have debiliated Sun in > 9th,and that could indicate problems with father. With Ketu square > the Sun in 9th, it can definitely be loss of father. With Rahu square > the Sun in 9th,a father with addiction problems. > > > Both my parents had substance abuse issues,and I feel that could > because both my Moon and Sun are in nakshastra ruled by Rahu. My Moon > is in Satabisha. I read that Satabisha has to do with health issues > and substance abuse issues. > > > How is Ketu aspected by 3rd aspect of Mars? How does that work? I > know that Mars aspects the 4th,7th,and 8th houses from itself. I know > that my Mars aspects doesn't make those aspects to Ketu. > > > I was in the navy for 7 yrs,and it sucked. I had depression there. I > have service connected disability for depression. I only got a 10 > percent rating,and received 100 dollars per month for 3 yrs. Now I > have my disability upgraded to 70 percent,and now I get 1,000 dollars > per month. Money is no problem for me right now. I received a lot of > money from backpay from VA and social security for bipolar diagnosis. > I feel that my 8th house lord Jupiter in Scorpio in 4th aspecting 8th > house is why I have some luck with unearned money. > > > Could you please give me a list of books to learn Vedic Astrology > from? I really love Vedic Astrology. It's so accurate that it's > scary! hehehehehe > > > Thanks > > > > Raymond > > > , Shripal <d_shripal> > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > 1)Rahu and Ketu in Capricon and Cancer > > respectively.Rahu in Capricon make a individual > > inclined to sadness, love of solitude,shrewdness and > > diplomacy.It gives wealth,but you don't desire and not > > very ambitious too.Ketu in Cancer gives fickleless > > love,he is surrounded by many secrets and mystriuos > > things.even prone to accident or danger while > > travelling.However Jupiter apect that too is not > > powerful in totally mitigating this effect. > > > > 2)Dispositor of Cancer where Ketu is placed is highly > > afflicted my Mars and Saturn.Ketu is afflicted by 3rd > > aspect of Mars and Mars squaring saturn,so loss of > > mother is iminent,may be mentally,physically,etc.As > > moon is good in Navmasa,may be that may be reason why > > she didn't die,But still being with you ,she will > > never be with you. > > > > 3)Sun is debiliated and squared by Rahu and Ketu.as I > > said ketu is afflicted to much.And in Navmasa sun is > > debilated and aspected by Saturn and Mars so he also > > died.Ketu even represents your ancestor,so even your > > grandfather had done a suicide. > > > > 4)Know ketu being in 12th,It is a most unfortunate > > position,It causes incessant worries and troubles > > during the whole period of occupying this house, or > > when it passes through it again, unless benefic > > aspects from other planets are in operation at the > > same time,like in your case jupiter,but that too is > > afflicted by Saturn,which is influenced by Mars. It > > causes loss of money, and unsatisfactory business > > transactions. It makes powerul enemies and merciless > > creditors, and is also a sign of ill-health and > > troubles of all kinds. > > > > 5)One more thing about ketu being in 12th,it gives the > > person with a talent for working with the sick or > > mentally insecure. It gives a drive to seek seclusion > > and an inclination to meditate. With bad aspects it > > could give an alienation from society. This position > > seems to be karmic; and there is a very definite > > secret, sacrificial service of some kind involved, > > depending upon sign and aspects. The person with the > > Ketu in the twelfth house may have a martyr complex, > > which must be used at its highest in sacrificial > > service and delving into the secrets of the > > subconscious, bringing them to the light of the > > conscious mind. This position gives many nurses and > > doctors. > > > > 6)Life is mostly built towards outward life with fear > > and imagination.Currently you are going through > > Saturn Mahadasa,which is not good in Birth and Navmasa > > chart both.So till 2021 ,I don't know,still what all > > thing you have to go through.But one thing is for > > sure,you will be more into spiritual things,and more > > you indulge yourself into those thing,more your life > > will be beautiful.Be like a saturn or imbibe saturn > > qualities in you,help poorer ro mentally ill > > person,that remedie will definately help you. > > > > > > --- astynaz <astynaz> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > I have Ketu in Cancer in 12th which is aspected by > > > 6th/7th house lord > > > Saturn in Taurus in 10th and 5th/8th house lord > > > Jupiter in Scorpio in > > > 4th. My Ketu in Cancer is disposited by Moon in > > > Aquarius in 7th > > > house. My Moon is in Satabisha. I also have Rahu in > > > Capricorn in > > > 12th house from the Moon. No planets aspect my Rahu. > > > > > > I am very interested in spirituality,but I don't > > > believe in being > > > part of any organized religion. I am preparing for a > > > career in the > > > holistic healing field. > > > > > > I am also a person with a history of > > > Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,and ADD. I > > > have been in the special ed system for 3 years(1st > > > and 2nd grade > > > which I repeated). I was mistakened as mentally > > > retarded and was > > > ridiculed by normal kids for being in special > > > ed,having coordination > > > and speech problems. I have above average > > > intelligence. I do have 1st > > > house lord Sun, 2nd/11th house lord Mercury,3rd/10th > > > house lord Venus > > > in Libra in 3rd house,and so it aspects the 9th > > > house. I also have > > > Sun,Mercury,and Venus in 9th house from the Moon. I > > > have been > > > misdiagnosed as schizoaffective bipolar disorder. A > > > lot of adult > > > ADDers are misdiagnosed as bipolar too. I went to a > > > psychologist for > > > learning disability/ADHD assessment. I was diagnosed > > > inattentive type > > > ADHD,Generalized Anxiety Disorder,Dysthymic > > > Disorder,Avoidant > > > Personality Disorder,and per history:Developmental > > > Coordination > > > Disorder(notably in past). She didn't diagnose me > > > with any bipolar > > > nor psychotic disorder like those psychiatrists did. > > > She actually > > > listened to me and my mother. She did psychological > > > testing. The > > > psychiatrists never did that with me. I don't trust > > > psychiatrists at > > > all. I wonder if my Ketu in 6th house from the Moon > > > has anything to > > > do with being misdiagnosed as well as > > > hypersensitivity to > > > medications. I get side effects easily from > > > medications because of my > > > hypersensitive body. My Saturn is 4th house from the > > > Moon and aspects > > > my Ketu in 6th house. My mother has health problems > > > including > > > Depression,Anxiety,Diabetes,Hepatitis C,and Asthma. > > > She was shot when > > > I was 3 yrs old,and I was with her when it happened. > > > She had a blood > > > transfusion,and that is why she has Hepatitis C. She > > > is disabled from > > > the shooting. She hasn't worked since 1993. > > > > > > I am multiethnic too > > > > > (Black,Portuguese,English,German,French,Italian,Puerto > > > Rican,Native > > > American,and Jewish) I have dealt with prejudice > > > because of my mixed > > > ethnic background by both blacks and whites. It is > > > my mixed ethnic > > > background that helped me believe in unity and > > > universal love. My > > > mother told me that my father believed the same. > > > > > > > > > I feel that I have heavy karma. I feel that my > > > great suffering has > > > led to me having great compassion for people. I have > > > experienced > > > losses too. I never knew my father. He was out of my > > > life when I was > > > a year old. My mother showed me a picture when I was > > > 6 yrs old to > > > show her who my father was. He had drug problems. He > > > also had speech > > > problems like me including stammering and > > > stuttering. My maternal > > > grandfather committed suicide on Jan 25, 1998. His > > > death changed me. > > > It was a catalyst for me. I got back into believing > > > in God again > > > after 2 years of atheism. I got more interested in > > > the metaphysical. > > > > > > > > > Transiting Ketu was conjunct my 12th house lord Moon > > > in 7th when he > > > committed suicide. > > > > > > I believe that great gain can result from a great > > > loss. > > > > > > > > > I definitely can relate to my Ketu in Cancer in 12th > > > > > > > > > > > > october 29, 1971 > > > 3:20 am > > > san francisco, california > > > > > > > > > Raymond > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raymond > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , vattem > > > krishnan > > > <bursar_99> wrote: > > > > Hello Members, > > > > Still we r not able to decide what is appropriate > > > and not in our > > > group discussions.If we this is the platform chosen > > > beyond the scope > > > and objectivity of sharing our knowledge and > > > experience,certainly we > > > need to alert and caution.What Mr Tanvir has > > > attempted is the > > > same.Incase the opinion of group is: > > > > "why should > > > > the truth not be objectively assessed?" > > > > let us flash back and find is it the topic in the > > > perview of this > > > group to assess?Who are we and to whom we are posing > > > these isues and > > > what %people have interst to debate on these issues > > > and with results. > > > > I think Mr Manvir ji and other would also think > > > and early effort > > > will be made to think more on subject of Nodes than > > > make other issues > > > as nodal to seek opinions. > > > > p.s:Views on nodes are in tune iwth classics > > > except that in reality > > > when these r conjoined with other planets they > > > imitate as the planets > > > with whic they are associated.In my case Rahu is > > > associated with Mars > > > in a sthira rasi(Taurus) in 6th and ketu alone and > > > unaspected by any > > > planet in vrischik in 12th.let me also add my 8H is > > > of cancer in > > > which saturn.Venus and sun are associated. > > > > unless we get into D/9 to delineate and confirm > > > all these musings > > > only add to theoritical perspective. > > > > One of my friend happened to be twin(eldest) has > > > experience and > > > belief that his Ketu in it's dasa made him to get > > > all > > > recognitions.This is the case with his other brother > > > whose birth > > > happend just after 10 mts . > > > > so we have lot of instances where ketu made a > > > spoil sport and > > > reduced a brilliant student in his prime age unto > > > oblivion. > > > > Also a case of drug addict in his 25s made him to > > > succumb to a > > > premature death(by Rahu?) > > > > All inferences have to be made by taking into > > > wholistic approach > > > including stellar positions to add in to our theory > > > of Nodes. > > > > krishnan > > > > > > > > > > > > maniv78 <maniv78> wrote: > > > > > > > > I must agree with this point. I have struggled > > > invariably when > > > > applying the dictum that Ketu is like Mars and > > > Rahu like Saturn in > > > > my experiences with countless charts. > > > > > > > > We all know that: > > > > > > > > Saturn makes one detached, introspective and > > > seperative; > > > > Ketu makes one introverted, psychic and 'weird'; > > > > Mars makes one aggressive, active and dynamic; > > > > Rahu makes one opportunistic, violent and loaded > > > with excessive > > > > desires; > > > > > > > > And that Ketu is commonly placed in the signs that > > > signify satwic > > > > tendencies (Pisces /Capricorn/ Sagittarius) in the > > > charts of great > > > > spiritualists. Rahu's opposite placement in > > > materialistic signs > > > > (Virgo/Cancer (mildly)/Gemini) in these > > > configurations clearly > > > > indicate its disconnection with satwic > > > inclinations which is more > > > in > > > > line with nature of Mars then that of Saturn. > > > > > > > > Thus a logical conclusion with the above in mind > > > would be that > > > > Saturn is in fact more like Ketu and Mars like > > > Rahu. Of course, > > > Mars > > > > does have similarities with Ketu (technical > > > faculties, intensity); > > > > and Saturn with Rahu (addictions, vices); but they > > > fail to form > > > > conclusive parallels when considering the key > > > significations. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Maniv > > > > > > > > P.S. Tanvirji, your very personal reaction to > > > Mukund's post, (which > > > > was not aimed at you initially) has depreciated my > > > respect for you > > > > greatly. Your response was clearly driven by an > > > urge to demonstrate > > > > your superior knowledge, qualify the drawbacks of > > > Islam by > > > > disqualifying certain aspects of Hinduism and the > > > ego created by > > > > your status as owner of this group. > > > > No one participating on this board is irrational > > > enough to believe > > > > that Muslims as a whole are terrorists; general > > > statements about > > > > religious groups/castes/races never have > > > substance. However the > > > > indisputable fact remains that the majority of > > > terrorist activity > > > is > > > > carried out by groups that come under the banner > > > of Islam. Maybe > > > > it's politically incorrect to make such > > > statements; but why should > > > > the truth not be objectively assessed? > > > > I realize that this is board for discussions on > > > Jyotish and related > > > > spiritualism so I apologize for lengthening this > > > thread. If you had > > > > warned Mukundji politely and then subsequently > > > ignored his reaction > > > > to your allegations about his character then > > > perhaps this line of > > > > debate could have been avoided altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > , "maniv78" > > > <maniv78> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > , Shripal > > > <d_shripal> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me clarify,you must be knowing Jup+ Ketu > > > gives us > > > > > > a spiritual Inclination.You you have analysed > > > several > > > > > > charts ,you will also find,people who are > > > having > > > > > > Jup+Sat are also spritually inclined.Have you > > > ever > > > > > > heard Jup+ Mars give a spiritual > > > inclination,than Ketu > > > > > > like Mars holds false. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's forget about this too,Forget about myth > > > too,know > > > > > > since ages astrology has changed a lot and be > > > > > > practical. > > > > > > > > > > > > So know even Jaataka is not wrong.What I said > > > was > > > > > > malefic part,Let me tell you benefic part.If > > > ketu is > > > > > > Good ,it act like Mars and If Rahu is Bad it > > > act like > > > > > > Saturn,that's what you are saying.What I am > > > saying is > > > > > > very practical,Isn't it?.Try yourself in diff > > > > > > charts,you will come to know. > > > > > > > > > > > > Shadow planets don't have aspect,even 7th > > > aspect is > > > > > > not there.But they influence various houses in > > > > > > chart,because bottom line they are shadow > > > planets.What > > > > > > is shadow.All materialistic things which > > > exists in > > > > > > this world we always have a shadow.So planets > > > squaring > > > > > > it up,aspecting, or some how connected with > > > > > > planets,there shadows are reflected on other > > > > > > house,That's how they get a good and bad > > > results of > > > > > > that house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- kadrudra <kadrudra> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friend, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Till now I have been hearing 'SHANIVAD RAHU > > > - > > > > > > > KUJAVAT KETHU'[Rahu > > > > > > > like Saturn and Kethu like Mars] principle > > > from > > > > > > > JAATAKA > > > > > > > texts whereas TAAJIKA/TAAJAKA groups both > > > the nodes > > > > > > > similar to SATURN > > > > > > > [....sheShamanyat ca MANDAVAT...(Prs Mrg.)]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In your post: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >AS per myth,Ketu is a Malefic nature of > > > > > > > Saturn,that's > > > > > > > >why is makes one suffer too much,in order > > > to divert > > > > > > > >him towards Spirituality.while Rahu takes > > > benefic > > > > > > > >nature of Jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am eager to know which text supports the > > > above > > > > > > > statement, as I have > > > > > > > not heard of this MYTH till now. > > > > > > > If you could share some PRACTICAL > > > examples(charts) > > > > > > > with the group > > > > > > > using THIS principle, it would be better > > > understood. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yours humbly, > > > > > > > KAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > Shripal > > > > > > > <d_shripal> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Article contains almost all qualities of > > > Rahu and > > > > > > > Ketu > > > > > > > > as individual and every word retun is true > > > in all > > > > > > > > respect.Something addition to that.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu and Ketu are both unsatisfied > > > soul,which are > > > > > > > > striving for Moksha.As they are even known > > > as a > > > > > > > Shadow > > > > > > > > planets.Shadow of each and everything > > > which exist > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > materialistic in this world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wonder why GOds never had a shadow,as they > > > are > > > > > > > free > > > > > > > > souls from deception of Rahu and Ketu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AS per myth,Ketu is a Malefic nature of > > > > > > > Saturn,that's > > > > > > > > why is makes one suffer too much,in order > > > to > > > > > > > divert > > > > > > > > him towards Spirituality.while Rahu takes > > > benefic > > > > > > > > nature of Jupiter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu casts a favorable, fortunate, > > > cheerful, > > > > > > > > affectionate, expansive, optimistic and > > > popular > > > > > > > > influence over the affairs of the house in > > > which > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > falls, brings out the more positive > > > potentials of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > sign in which it is placed, and favours > > > the > > > > > > > functions > > > > > > > > and energies signified by any planets or > > > points to > > > > > > > > which it forms a conjunction or harmonious > > > aspect > > > > > > > > (with the Moon especially bringing benefit > > > and > > > > > > > gains). > > > > > > > > The Ketu, casts a malefic, harmful > > > influence upon, > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > brings binding, delaying or impeding > > > restrictions > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > obligations in relation to the affairs of > > > the > > > > > > > house it > > > > > > > > occupies; brings out the more negative > > > potentials > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the sign in which it is posited and > > > disfavours > > > > > > > planets > > > > > > > > in conjuction or inharmonious aspect with > > > it (the > > > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > > particularly bringing losses and > > > troubles). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But other look of this Moon Node's Rahu > > > and Ketu > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > relating to one's subconscious Attachment > > > vs > > > > > > > Conscious > > > > > > > > growth.Ketu represents subconscious > > > motivations > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > stem from the past and to which there is > > > an inner > > > > > > > > inclination to cling although they may no > > > longer > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > relevant or appropriate to the > > > individual's > > > > > > > situation > > > > > > > > and prospects, while the Rahu represents > > > conscious > > > > > > > > motivations relevant to the present and > > > future, > > > > > > > > characterised by a desire for the > > > unfoldment of > > > > > > > > appropriate changes in personal > > > psychology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ketu indicates capabilities and faculties > > > > > > > inherited > > > > > > > > from former incarnations or 'past lives', > > > while > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Rahu shows the ideal direction for > > > > > > > self-development in > > > > > > > > the current incarnation in order to attain > > > > > > > ultimate > > > > > > > > spiritual fulfilment and the successful > > > > > > > realisation of > > > > > > > > one's pre-chosen evolutionary goals from > > > this > > > > > > > > lifetime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever any thought why Two are there(Rahu > > > and Ketu) > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > not only one of them exist.That too they > > > are > > > > > > > opposite > > > > > > > > to each other all the time and > > > retograting.I am > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > talking in terms of there technical > > > > > > > existence.Reason > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > Ketu principles are not to be completely > > > > > > > overthrown > > > > > > > > and discarded, but rather kept in > > > harmonious > > > > > > > balance > > > > > > > > with those of the Rahu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is regarded as a goal of new growth > > > the > > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > > for which is a dimly illuminated struggle. > > > > > > > Harmonious > > > > > > > > aspects and benefic conjunctions to the > > > Rahu will > > > > > > > > indicate relatively easy progress along > > > the > > > > > > > journey > > > > > > > > towards this goal, while inharmonious > > > aspects and > > > > > > > > malefic conjunctions will indicate > > > difficulties. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > individual will frequently, on > > > encountering > > > > > > > obstacles, > > > > > > > > be consciously inclined to give up and > > > return to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > safety of the Ketu, through weakness of > > > resolve > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > than through absolute force or obligation. > > > But as > > > > > > > > always with stressful aspects, the > > > ultimate > > > > > > > rewards of > > > > > > > > achievement can be greater and more > > > spiritually > > > > > > > > satisfying than would be attained by an > > > easy > > > > > > > passage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aspects to the nodes, both natally and by > > > transit > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > progression, show the manner in which the > > > > > > > development > > > > > > > > towards the Rahu goals will be worked out. > > > > > > > > Conjunctions to the Rahu induce forced > > > growth; > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > those to the Ketu encourage conditioned > > > responses. > > > > > > > > Squares accentuate the conflict of > > > interest > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > the nodes, and pull the individual towards > > > the > > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > > and house placement of the squared > > > planet.It > > > > > > > creates a > > > > > > > > tension for a individual in there growth. > > > > > > > Quincunxes > > > > > > > > to the Rahu show a misperceieved notion of > > > the > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > to attain growth. Sextiles bring > > > opportunities for > > > > > > > > constructive growth, while trines bring > > > easy > > > > > > > > growth.That you all must be knowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will soon be coming with Article Nodes > > > in > > > > > > > > Synastry.Detail explanation about our > > > interaction > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > daily life materialistic objects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- yogita purohit <yogitapurohit> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to put forth an article of > > > Rahu > > > > > > > which I > > > > > > > > > have among my collection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Jyotish, the ancient astrological > > > system of > > > > > > > > > India, the lunar nodes are major points > > > in natal > > > > > > > > > chart and are closely looked at, > > > especially in > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > transit movements through the birth > > > chart. As > > > > > > > > > opposed to Western astrological systems > > > which > > > > > > > tends > > > > > > > > > to view nodes as favourable influences, > > > Jyotish > > > > > > > > > regards the lunar nodes as malefic > > > forces, > > > > > > > > > responsible for chronic diseases, loss, > > > > > > > sufferings, > > > > > > > > > "fatedEcataclysmic events and other > > > maladies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In western astrology there is a strong > > > tendency > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > view the lunar nodes as something to do > > > with > > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > > karma—the accumulated lesson's of one > > > past > > > > > > > lives. In > > > > > > > > > this view, popularized by such authors > > > as Martin > > > > > > > > > Schulman of Karmic Astrology series, the > > > north > > > > > > > nde > > > > > > > > > represents what we should be striving > > > towards in > > > > > > > > > this life time, a sort of karmic goal > > > for us to > > > > > > > > > reach. The south node is viewed as the > > > past that > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > need to hold behind and not hold onto. > > > > > > > Proponents of > > > > > > > > > this view contend, that by looking at > > > the sign > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > house placements of the nodes, one's > > > karmic past > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > destiny can be ascertained. Curiously > > > nodes are > > > > > > > > > given rather strong importance in natal > > > chart > > > > > > > > > interpretation, but are seldom looked at > > > closely > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > transit analysis of the here and now of > > > one's > > > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the Uranian and Cosmobiological > > > system of > > > > > > > > > Germany, the nodes are interpreted as > > > having a > > > > > > > lot > > > > > > > > > to do with interpersonal relationships, > > > rather > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > karma. Alfred Witte founder of the > > > Uranian > > > > > > > > > astrological system strongly propounded > > > this > > > > > > > view. > > > > > > > > > The nodes were regarded as key in > > > determining > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > > social the person was and, as opposed to > > > the > > > > > > > > > American view, looked in at the transit > > > > > > > analysis. > > > > > > > > > Aspects from the nodes to other planet > > > would > > > > > > > > > indicate where and what nature one's > > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > > > would be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Vedic astrological system, however, > > > while the > > > > > > > > > nodes may have something to do with > > > one's karma > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > may involve relationships with others, > > > they are > > > > > > > > > inherently viewed as evil cosmic > > > influences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We all know about the story of origin of > > > Rahu > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > how separation of Rahu and ketu occured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, Rahu had managed to taste > > > and > > > > > > > swallow > > > > > > > > > the amrita just before the dismemberment > > > and > > > > > > > > > therefore was unable to be killed. > > > Because of > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > immortality Rahu and Ketu exists > > > eternally in > > > > > > > > > heavens. Due to it's exposure by sun and > > > moon, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > nodes are sworn enemies of those 2 > > > planets, > > > > > > > hence > > > > > > > > > the darkening of Sun and Moon during > > > solar and > > > > > > > lunar > > > > > > > > > eclipse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RAHU—THE ROLLER COASTER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As can be deduced from the origin or > > > story of > > > > > > > rahu , > > > > > > > > > that rahu is an excellent liar as it was > > > able to > > > > > > > > > deceive even the gods, if only > > > temporarily. In > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Vedic system, the north node, rahu has > > > rulership > > > > > > > > > over con artists, liars, illusions and > > > cheats, > > > > > > > Since > > > > > > > > > rahu is only the head and part of the > > > body of an > > > > > > > > > immortal demon it is always constantly > > > hungy, > > > > > > > > > whatever food eaten never reaches the > > > whole body > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > rahu is only head and mouth. And because > > > of this > > > > > > > > > rahu is viewed as insatiable material > > > desires . > > > > > > > Now > > > > > > > > > matter how much it gets it always wants > > > more and > > > > > > > > > because of this rahu is closely > > > associated with > > > > > > > > > addictions and obsessive/compulsive > > > behaviour > > > > > > > > > patterns. Accordingly rahu rules > > > poisons, drugs, > > > > > > > > > alcoholism, addicts, compulsive > > > gambling, sex > > > > > > > > > addiction, and pleasure seeking. Rahu > > > also rules > > > > > > > > > worries, paranoia and irrational fears. > > > Because > > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > > is demon and inheetely evil it also has > > > domain > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > sufferings in general, especially > > > chronic > > > > > > > diseases > > > > > > > > > and events that are sudden and seem > > > fated and > > > > > > > > > tragic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because Rahu had the audacity to > > > impersonate a > > > > > > > god, > > > > > > > > > at a considerable risk to itself( a > > > gamble which > > > > > > > > > eventually was lost by demon body > > > leading to > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > separation). Rahu is associated with > > > reckless > > > > > > > > > behaviour and of taking chances. Rahu > > > can make > > > > > > > > > people do things they otherwise would > > > not by > > > > > > > making > > > > > > > > > them throw caution to wind and thinking > > > that > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > can get away with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A final lesson to be gleaned from the > > > vedic myth > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > that Rahu's gains are always temporary. > > > In the > > > > > > > myth > > > > > > > > > rahu did manage to deceive gods for a > > > while, but > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > found at the end and suffered for it. > > > Likewise, > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > well placd in one's chart, rahu may give > > > > > > > material > > > > > > > > > success, drive, fame and ambition, but > > > these > > > > > > > gifts > > > > > > > > > are fleeting and temporary. It is a > > > virtual > > > > > > > axiom in > > > > > > > > > Jyotish that whatever is gained with > > > rahu's > > > > > > > > > influence will eventually flitter away > > > and be > > > > > > > lost. > > > > > > > > > One of the great lesson rahu teaches is > > > this : > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > can't take it with you .The moment you > > > think > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > you have attained lasting success > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the material world is exactly the > > > moment when > > > > > > > > > rahu will take away that success, > > > leaving you > > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > for what you lost and you cannot have it > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KETU—THE CRUEL ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ketu is the headless body of rahu called > > > as > > > > > > > dragon's > > > > > > > > > tail. Astrologically ketu is exact > > > opposite of > > > > > > > rahu. > > > > > > > > > Whereas rahu is pure physicality and > > > materialism > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > ketu is pure spirituality and > > > non-materiality. > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > > this respect ketu acts like Neptune. But > > > ketu's > > > > > > > > > spirituality comes with heavy price tag. > > > It is > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > all, a half of demon. Ketu brings > > > spirituality > > > > > > > onto > > > > > > > > > people by making them suffer. It is > > > almost as if > > > > > > > > > ketu creates many disasters in a > > > person's life, > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > no one has choice but to turn to divine > > > for help > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > solace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since ketu is non-physical and > > > non-material, > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > influence creates denial and sometimes > > > > > > > abandonment. > > > > > > > > > For example, a person with Ketu closely > > > conjunct > > > > > > > > > midpoint of the 4th house of the mother > > > will > > > > > > > > > typically report that their mother was > > > > > > > emotionally > > > > > > > > > or physically unavailable when the > > > person was > > > > > > > > > growing up. Ketu can be very mystic, > > > occult, > > > > > > > psychic > > > > > > > > > and intuitive, but it can also bring > > > with it > > > > > > > > > isolation, loss, misery and abuse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the key things to be aware of > > > with ketu > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > that it rules diseases of unknown origin > > > (like > > > > > > > > > cancer, multiple sclerosis, parkinson's > > > etc.,)or > > > > > > > > > disease that can get misdiagonised or > > > mistreated > > > > > > > > > this is because of ketu's hidden, > > > mysterious > > > > > > > > > quality. It can be most insidious > > > influence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from the article given above I > > > would also > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > to mention certain more points on the > > > nodes > > > > > > > which I > > > > > > > > > come across while studying different > > > horoscopes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is usually seen and also mentioned in > > > the > > > > > > > article > > > > > > > > > given above rahu and ketu are > > > unsatisfied nodes. > > > > > > > E.g > > > > > > > > > for this I would like to mention here is > > > that I > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > working as an astrologer with a very > > > reputed > > > > > > > > > businessman of Mumbai who was filthy > > > rich and > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > having all materialistic pleasures of > > > life he > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > unsatisfied and that age (his age is > > > near about > > > > > > > > > 55-60) he use to often complain about > > > having > > > > > > > > > dissatisfied physical relationship with > > > his > > > > > > > wife, he > > > > > > > > > felt still there is something lacking to > > > make > > > > > > > him > > > > > > > > > more popular world wide, he had past > > > broken > > > > > > > affair > > > > > > > > > and at this age too he was longing a > > > > > > > companionship > > > > > > > > > with young females. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Studying his horoscope it was seen that > > > his was > > > > > > > > > Taurus asc. With Rahu in it and ketu- > > > guru in > > > > > > > > > scorpio. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Although rahu did not give him disturbed > > > or > > > > > > > broken > > > > > > > > > marriage life he is still with wife may > > > be due > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > presence of Jupiter in 7th could be > > > saving point > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > his marital life (here I want group > > > member to > > > > > > > > > discuss what would have made him save > > > his > > > > > > > marriage) > > > > > > > > > but he has grudges against his wife. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the second point I have seen is > > > Mars and > > > > > > > rahu > > > > > > > > > mostly in 7th and 5th houses in > > > horoscopes > > > > > > > > > (irrespective of signs placed) have > > > given those > > > > > > > > > native questionable characters and > > > sometimes > > > > > > > even to > > > > > > > > > the extent of satisfying their physical > > > desires > > > > > > > > > before marriage and afterwards getting > > > separated > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > married elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What points in this planetary > > > combinations gives > > > > > > > > > such effects does Mars has something to > > > do with > > > > > > > > > character of person apart from it hot > > > qualities > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > rashness, arroagancy, forceful energy > > > drives > > > > > > > etc., > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would welcome points or discussion > > > from Rupji > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > respected members of the group > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanking You > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yogita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page > > > ETry > > > > > > > My > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > "Love is friendship set to music." > > > > > > > > "Love conquers all." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best > > > spam > > > > > > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > "Love is friendship set to music." > > > > > > "Love conquers all." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~! LIFE MEANS STRUGGLE, THE FITTEST WINS SURVIVAL > > > !~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > To from this group, send an email > > > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to the > > > Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read only the mail you want - Mail > > > SpamGuard. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > "Love is friendship set to music." > > "Love conquers all." > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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