Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 dear friends though this group is not the perfect forum for such religious hatred, am touching few things on history part: 1. the bharat khand (continent of bharat) is the original map of india which has more than dozen countries which are now separated from the indian sub continent. 2. this ancient holy land of bharat khand has welcomed all religions with open arms. 3. peace loving religions like buddhism and jainism were born in this great country 4. invading religions like christianity and islam too have been welcomed in which process billions of hindus were butchered by these invaders who looted as much material treasure as they could and are still enjoying that money in their respective countries. 5. sikhism was also born in this great country to protect hindus from the then invading muslims. 6. parsis who came in shiploads to gujarat symbolised themselves as sugar added to milk and are the best wealth creators for this country as well as for themselves. 7. there are many miraculous historic truths related to moses and jesus in the kashmir valley which many people do not know. 8. first complete colony of christians in the world was allowed to form at calicut. 9. ramapant conversion of hindus to various religions was allowed by hindus. 10. Bharat has never invaded any other country on their own and even in the last fought kargil war, allowed free and safe return of the invaders by giving extended time to the invaders. 11. Today Goldman Sachhs forecasts that India and China would become the two most developed nations in the next 50 years. Hope the learned brother agree to the above facts. Now, few facts for the brother from the west: 1. rumsfeld was present in baghdad whe iraq was using chemical weapons supplied to them by usa, against iran. some say he was personally supervising that operation then. 2. usa invaded iraq with their fellow partner uk on the pretext of protecting the iraqis but till date usa has killed countless (some US based NGOs keep the figure at a million) innocent iraqi children, women and old people even as convicting their own soldiers. Enough food for thought for my historian brothers. with best wishes arjun ps: the group owner/moderator may ban posting such mails if he finds the contents are factually incorrect. SRINIVASA UPADHYAYA <upadhyaya_p_s wrote: Dear friend, Please do not re-write Indian History. Our history has been tampered by everyone in the world. Our politicians are so great that they never gave any importance to our history. Every where brahmins have been neglected. No importance to intelligence. We have been torn apart by these politicians in each and every sphere. Do not assume that chistianity is the first religion that swept south. It is your mistake to think so. Europeans were able to destroy culture of each and every country that they stepped onto. Only in India, they were not able to do so. So they acted like businessmen and slowly started destroying out culture, religin and every thing. Now it is our politicians, who are very fond of continuing the british tradition. Indians never converted anyone. As out belief is that a person should get birth in Hindu religon and nobody can be converted to hindu. These conversions are spreaded by christians and muslim. God save our country --- Brother Shane <truebeliever_777 wrote: > Deva Evu Lawrie <evulawrie wrote:I > remember reading in "The Hindu" a leading English > Daily in India about a ghastly incident that had > taken place in Rajasthan, India some months back. > It so happened that two Dalit men (low caste men) > were cutting an old dead cow. (They had not killed > it since it had died naturally). A large group of > fanatic high caste Hindus hearing about it rushed to > the spot and killed the two Dalit men. These people > who are against the slaughtering of animals even for > food or protection have no qualms about killing > human beings in the name of religion. It is really > a pity. I hope our friend Pankaja Dasa understands > this. (Pankaja I guess means - Lotus). In this > context I would also like to mention a saying "The > Greatest hatred is Religious Hatred and the First > murder was Religious Murder". > > By the way, I would like to mention that the words > 'Hindu' or 'India' did not originate from any > religion. They originated from the name of a river > called INDUS ( S - being silent). India was the > region where the river INDUS was flowing even in the > days of King Ahasuerus of the Bible and also > Alexander, The Great Greek Emperor. Alexander seems > to have come up to the western bank of river Indus > and left. > > At that time in the Southern parts of the present > India there were local deities worshipped by the > people. In the First Century A.D., Christianity was > the major religion that entered India through > Apostle Thomas in the Southern parts of the present > India including Kerala and Tamil Nadu where he was > martyred. Therefore one can easily see that > Christianity was the first major religion that swept > the South. > > Later when the Muslim Rulers came, they united many > different parts of the present India and called it > India. The British then united all the states > including Pakistan and Bangladesh and states of > South India and called the Federation as India in > their turn. When the British left India they > partitioned it as India, West Pakistan and East > Pakistan which is Bangladesh today. Fortunately or > Unfortunately, the original land of India where the > river Indus flows is now called Pakistan. > > In the clash or amalgamation of the cultures of the > North and the South, the majority want to assert, > dominate and enforce their culture and religion upon > the South and also upon the minority religions in > India such as Islam and Christianity. Therefore > they call their culture Hindutva (Indutva) which at > present has no meaning or relevance being far away > from the Original India or the River Indus. > > With Regards > Deva Evu Lawrie > - > Brother Shane > Pankaja Dasa > Cc: bibletruths_forbelievers > Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:28 AM > Re: Fwd: [bibletruths_forbelievers] Re: > Thou Shall not kill > > > Thank you for your kind, loving and caring words, my > dear Hindu friend! > > I can see that your gita book has taught you well. > > As far as me killing cows...i don't know what ever > gave you that idea. Seems you skipped over most of > what i wrote (by the way, i read every word you > write ). > > Pankaja, God does not kill cows. He doesn't really > kill anything. Man kills. > > I said that, when we are in heaven, we will be as > God is. We can speak anything we want into > existance. If i want to eat a steak then i can just > speak and a steak will appear before me. I don't > have to kill anything. Besides, you made an > assumption that i was referring to beef steak. A > steak can come from many different animals...but a > steak in heaven would not come from anything dead. > Because there is no death in God's Kingdom. > > Am so glad you appreciate what the Lord Jesus Christ > has created! Too many people do not see the beauty > in nature. Brother Branham was also a nature lover. > You should read of the time he prayed for a wounded > opposum mother. It's a moving testimony! He had such > a deep love of all of God's creatures! > > I have not read this gita book you are talking > about...but I'm sure there is truth in it. Are you > referring to the Baghavadgita (not sure of the > spelling)? If so, then i have read a few parts of > it. It's many, many books in one. Some call it the > 'Hindu Bible'. I believe much of it was written > before the great flood. Back when Krishna was a > king. Nearly 6,000 years ago! Quite an amazing book. > > Too bad you cannot see that i am sincere in > everything i say. My friends know me and they can > tell you i mean what i say and i say what i mean. > I'm an aries/tiger, in the zodiac. People born under > these signs are fiercly and brutally honest. Not > that i mean to offend people but sometimes i > unintentionally do. > I don't read horrorscopes but i do believe that we > are born under the influence of stars and > gravitational fields. It does effect our personality > somewhat. Brother Branham talked about it a bit, and > he also said even your name can have an effect on > your personality. > > My name, Shane, is a Gaelic or Keltic name. It's > John in English. It has a good meaning and I'm > thankful i have it. > > By the way, what does Pankaja mean? It has a nice > sound to it. > > > Well, you seem to be a bit sleepy, so I'll > stop chewin your ear off and let you go get some > rest. > > Calling me a dog...come on now! You need some winks > my friend. > > > A dog goes back to his own vomit...sort of like a > person that has forsaken the good things God gave > him, to go eat something man has perverted. > I really despise man-made things. Nothing makes me > happier than to be out with nature. I can stand > under a grove of palm trees and talk to them like > they were my own brethren. Have you ever done that > Pankaja? > > By the way, if you stepped in a fire ant hill, or > had cockroaches crawling all over you, would you be > kind to them too? > > Have a nice nap! > > God bless all that Love the Lord Jesus Christ. > > Your friend (by faith), > > Brother Shane > > p.s. - i do not believe that animals have souls. > Yes, they have a spirit, but all spirits come from > God and will go back to Him, when the creature dies. > I do believe many animals will be a part of God's > Kingdom, but they do not have to gain their > salvation as we do, for they did not > sin...therefore, they do not need a soul. Do they > have feelings? Yes, i know they do. So did the Lamb > of God, Jesus, when He suffered and died for you. > > > Pankaja Dasa <pankaja_dasa wrote: > > > Hare Krishna Jaya Gauranga! > > I left because I didn't find anything of interest, > plus I posted a question, which never got posted. > Anytime I post somebody and people don't bother to > even inform me of why that is, i don't bother with > them, simple as.. > > > > So Brother Shane 'thou art so merciful' you would > eat a steak in heaven. God must love killing cows. > Cows who give milk. Sweet cows. Would you kill > your own mother? Or did you kill your own mother > after she breast feed you when you were a child? > You discust me. Cows are the most sacred animal in > the World. It gives milk for all of HUMANITY. And > what does HUMANITY do? It kills it. Good way to > show Gratititude. > > Are you still reading? Or do you skip what I say? > You act like Jesus Christ is merciless. What is the > difference between you and a dog? A god eats, mates > has sex, has meat food. You do the same. Only > difference is you have 2 legs and it has 4 legs. > Thats the way i see you. And you call yourself > BROTHER Shane, like you are so merciful to all > living beings. Tell me how a Cow cannot have a > soul? === message truncated === Regards, Srinivasa Upadhyaya P, SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Visit your group "" on the web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Dear Friends, I belong to a devout christian family and quite a few of my relations are Bishops, nuns and priests in the catholic church. I am an ardent admirer of astrology. My beleif is that astrology is not wrong but the astrologer could be wrong. I have many a time got into active debaites with my own kith and kin who serve the church. Unfortunately many beleifs over a period of time have been manipulated by mankind to their own whims and fancies.A small example of it is. The entire world knows that Jesus Christ was crucified on a Friday and he rose on a sunday. And the book of mathew very clearly states that while he died on Frdiay, he rested on Saturday which was the Sabbath day and he rose on Sunday. Now why did he rest on the Sabbath day. It was because the 4th commandment very clearly states that thou shall rest on the sabbath day. When Jesus Christ himself rested on the Sabbath day, a saturday, hpow come then Sabbath became Sunday. Those days while Constantine was ruling, there used to be war between the Pagans and the Christians. Christians worshipped on Saturday and Pagans worshipped on Sunday. Constantine was a Pagan.( And remember all Hindus do Surya Namasakar,. Can we find some linkage here) To bring peace to the country, Constantine worked out with the Pope a deal, which was that he will become christiuan but worship on swundays. And because of his conversion, all the Pagans became christains. That is how Sunday became Sabbath day. While in the larger interest of the society, this could sound OK, but is man allowed to change the commandment which Jesus Christ himself followed so strictly and religiously that he rose from the dead on Sunday because there was Sabbath day in between. This is just one of the numerous manipulations that human beings have made ion the name of releigion and have used religion to emotionally balck mail people to imnpose their personal values on the larger community. If astrology would not have been there, would Jesus Christ be found at all. It was a future reader who told the 3 wise men to follow the star to find Jesus Christ. And today when I ask my beloved fraternity about this, when they say astrology is fake. They just blink. In fact, while I had visited Madras a few years back, I visited a renowned Siddha doctor. I w3as astounded by the expertise that he had. I was takemn there by an acquaintance. I went there with a lot os skepticism. But I realised what a great science astrology is after meeting him. The Siddha doctor felt my pulse and was dictating my astrological chart to his assistant by feeling my bpulse. He said I was Kannya Rasi, Rishabh lagna and mentioned every planetary position. In no moment my chart was ready. He looked at the chart and immediatel diagnosed what disease I had. I had Sinusitis and knee injury. I never told him my illness. He prescribed some diet along with some herbs. I am cured. I took some interest and asked him what it was all about. That is when he mentioned, that those days there was no microscope , no chemicals, no stethoscope. In the Gurukuls they taught the disciples to study the stars and its impact on the society. And from it evolved astrology. This over a period was mastered by various Sants. And they were able to identify the diseases, which was on account of the planetary position in the horoscope, And he siad instead feeding you with chemicals, what we do is neutralise the bad effects with some remedies and in the process give you diet restrictions. I then visited a Nadi astrologer and that is the time it dawned on me that the gurukuls taught the disciples what are the effects of each planet. I realised, the horoscope is not mine. But the planetary positions that are prevalent while I am born impacts my life. And Nadi leaves are writings or notes about the interaction between the Gurus and the disciples about various palentary positions. Because the planetary position is such when I was born the leaf reading isthe notes which I could refer to. But it is in my hands to identify the flaws in my horoscope and find remedial measures for the malefic planets and its positions and aspects and lead a life that I desire. I also saw in this forum a lot about Hinduism. But sadly, no mention about Indonesia. Indonesians were original Hindus. Just like Constantine when the King of the Java and Sumatra Islands became muslim, all Javanese and Sumatra island citizens became Muslims. But they still follow the Hindu Culture. The Ramayana Ballet in Prammanan temeple in Yogjakarta is one of the greatest Ballets in this world which every Hindu must witness. And beleive me, half the artists are muslims and the other half are christians, hindus and buddhists. Or for that matter the Lord Shiva Temple in Pluit, in jakarta, which is a landmark by itself is devoutly cleaned and maintained by muslims while Hindus do the worshiping,. Or for the matter the Hindu Island of Bali, which still practises some very ancient rituals which even Indian Hindus have foorgotten. Its an experience byu itself. It takes you back to the age when the Gurukulams were present. Just fantastic.. And not forget the divide between Muslims and Christians. How did it satrt. Abraham a jew asked for a child from God when he was very old. God told him to go and sleep and he will get a child. And his wife Sarah was apprehensive about conceiving. So she got her maid Fatima to sleep with Abraham and the child born out of this one night stand is Ismail. God pulled up Abraham for suspecting his word. He told him to sleep with Sarah, which he did and at that old age Sarah gave birth to Issac. The conflict between the step brothers led to 2 different beleifs in values which over a period of time evolved as Muslims and Jews from whoma major faction followed Jesus Christ to be known as Christians. And today the fight between the descendants of these 2 brothers isd seen in palestine which is boomeranging all over the world. Hence, all religions, I beleive came from one source and that is mankind. But due to the sixth sense, over a period of time, man has manipulated his way to interpret the values in his own way for his convenience and when a majority starts folloowing it, it becomes religion. This is my personal beleif. And as far as astrology is concerned, it is a science which every religion has recognised in some form or the other. But some do not want to acceot. I just pity their ignorance. Regards, John arjun pandit <panditarjun2004 wrote: dear friends though this group is not the perfect forum for such religious hatred, am touching few things on history part: 1. the bharat khand (continent of bharat) is the original map of india which has more than dozen countries which are now separated from the indian sub continent. 2. this ancient holy land of bharat khand has welcomed all religions with open arms. 3. peace loving religions like buddhism and jainism were born in this great country 4. invading religions like christianity and islam too have been welcomed in which process billions of hindus were butchered by these invaders who looted as much material treasure as they could and are still enjoying that money in their respective countries. 5. sikhism was also born in this great country to protect hindus from the then invading muslims. 6. parsis who came in shiploads to gujarat symbolised themselves as sugar added to milk and are the best wealth creators for this country as well as for themselves. 7. there are many miraculous historic truths related to moses and jesus in the kashmir valley which many people do not know. 8. first complete colony of christians in the world was allowed to form at calicut. 9. ramapant conversion of hindus to various religions was allowed by hindus. 10. Bharat has never invaded any other country on their own and even in the last fought kargil war, allowed free and safe return of the invaders by giving extended time to the invaders. 11. Today Goldman Sachhs forecasts that India and China would become the two most developed nations in the next 50 years. Hope the learned brother agree to the above facts. Now, few facts for the brother from the west: 1. rumsfeld was present in baghdad whe iraq was using chemical weapons supplied to them by usa, against iran. some say he was personally supervising that operation then. 2. usa invaded iraq with their fellow partner uk on the pretext of protecting the iraqis but till date usa has killed countless (some US based NGOs keep the figure at a million) innocent iraqi children, women and old people even as convicting their own soldiers. Enough food for thought for my historian brothers. with best wishes arjun ps: the group owner/moderator may ban posting such mails if he finds the contents are factually incorrect. SRINIVASA UPADHYAYA <upadhyaya_p_s wrote: Dear friend, Please do not re-write Indian History. Our history has been tampered by everyone in the world. Our politicians are so great that they never gave any importance to our history. Every where brahmins have been neglected. No importance to intelligence. We have been torn apart by these politicians in each and every sphere. Do not assume that chistianity is the first religion that swept south. It is your mistake to think so. Europeans were able to destroy culture of each and every country that they stepped onto. Only in India, they were not able to do so. So they acted like businessmen and slowly started destroying out culture, religin and every thing. Now it is our politicians, who are very fond of continuing the british tradition. Indians never converted anyone. As out belief is that a person should get birth in Hindu religon and nobody can be converted to hindu. These conversions are spreaded by christians and muslim. God save our country --- Brother Shane <truebeliever_777 wrote: > Deva Evu Lawrie <evulawrie wrote:I > remember reading in "The Hindu" a leading English > Daily in India about a ghastly incident that had > taken place in Rajasthan, India some months back. > It so happened that two Dalit men (low caste men) > were cutting an old dead cow. (They had not killed > it since it had died naturally). A large group of > fanatic high caste Hindus hearing about it rushed to > the spot and killed the two Dalit men. These people > who are against the slaughtering of animals even for > food or protection have no qualms about killing > human beings in the name of religion. It is really > a pity. I hope our friend Pankaja Dasa understands > this. (Pankaja I guess means - Lotus). In this > context I would also like to mention a saying "The > Greatest hatred is Religious Hatred and the First > murder was Religious Murder". > > By the way, I would like to mention that the words > 'Hindu' or 'India' did not originate from any > religion. They originated from the name of a river > called INDUS ( S - being silent). India was the > region where the river INDUS was flowing even in the > days of King Ahasuerus of the Bible and also > Alexander, The Great Greek Emperor. Alexander seems > to have come up to the western bank of river Indus > and left. > > At that time in the Southern parts of the present > India there were local deities worshipped by the > people. In the First Century A.D., Christianity was > the major religion that entered India through > Apostle Thomas in the Southern parts of the present > India including Kerala and Tamil Nadu where he was > martyred. Therefore one can easily see that > Christianity was the first major religion that swept > the South. > > Later when the Muslim Rulers came, they united many > different parts of the present India and called it > India. The British then united all the states > including Pakistan and Bangladesh and states of > South India and called the Federation as India in > their turn. When the British left India they > partitioned it as India, West Pakistan and East > Pakistan which is Bangladesh today. Fortunately or > Unfortunately, the original land of India where the > river Indus flows is now called Pakistan. > > In the clash or amalgamation of the cultures of the > North and the South, the majority want to assert, > dominate and enforce their culture and religion upon > the South and also upon the minority religions in > India such as Islam and Christianity. Therefore > they call their culture Hindutva (Indutva) which at > present has no meaning or relevance being far away > from the Original India or the River Indus. > > With Regards > Deva Evu Lawrie > - > Brother Shane > Pankaja Dasa > Cc: bibletruths_forbelievers > Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:28 AM > Re: Fwd: [bibletruths_forbelievers] Re: > Thou Shall not kill > > > Thank you for your kind, loving and caring words, my > dear Hindu friend! > > I can see that your gita book has taught you well. > > As far as me killing cows...i don't know what ever > gave you that idea. Seems you skipped over most of > what i wrote (by the way, i read every word you > write ). > > Pankaja, God does not kill cows. He doesn't really > kill anything. Man kills. > > I said that, when we are in heaven, we will be as > God is. We can speak anything we want into > existance. If i want to eat a steak then i can just > speak and a steak will appear before me. I don't > have to kill anything. Besides, you made an > assumption that i was referring to beef steak. A > steak can come from many different animals...but a > steak in heaven would not come from anything dead. > Because there is no death in God's Kingdom. > > Am so glad you appreciate what the Lord Jesus Christ > has created! Too many people do not see the beauty > in nature. Brother Branham was also a nature lover. > You should read of the time he prayed for a wounded > opposum mother. It's a moving testimony! He had such > a deep love of all of God's creatures! > > I have not read this gita book you are talking > about...but I'm sure there is truth in it. Are you > referring to the Baghavadgita (not sure of the > spelling)? If so, then i have read a few parts of > it. It's many, many books in one. Some call it the > 'Hindu Bible'. I believe much of it was written > before the great flood. Back when Krishna was a > king. Nearly 6,000 years ago! Quite an amazing book. > > Too bad you cannot see that i am sincere in > everything i say. My friends know me and they can > tell you i mean what i say and i say what i mean. > I'm an aries/tiger, in the zodiac. People born under > these signs are fiercly and brutally honest. Not > that i mean to offend people but sometimes i > unintentionally do. > I don't read horrorscopes but i do believe that we > are born under the influence of stars and > gravitational fields. It does effect our personality > somewhat. Brother Branham talked about it a bit, and > he also said even your name can have an effect on > your personality. > > My name, Shane, is a Gaelic or Keltic name. It's > John in English. It has a good meaning and I'm > thankful i have it. > > By the way, what does Pankaja mean? It has a nice > sound to it. > > > Well, you seem to be a bit sleepy, so I'll > stop chewin your ear off and let you go get some > rest. > > Calling me a dog...come on now! You need some winks > my friend. > > > A dog goes back to his own vomit...sort of like a > person that has forsaken the good things God gave > him, to go eat something man has perverted. > I really despise man-made things. Nothing makes me > happier than to be out with nature. I can stand > under a grove of palm trees and talk to them like > they were my own brethren. Have you ever done that > Pankaja? > > By the way, if you stepped in a fire ant hill, or > had cockroaches crawling all over you, would you be > kind to them too? > > Have a nice nap! > > God bless all that Love the Lord Jesus Christ. > > Your friend (by faith), > > Brother Shane > > p.s. - i do not believe that animals have souls. > Yes, they have a spirit, but all spirits come from > God and will go back to Him, when the creature dies. > I do believe many animals will be a part of God's > Kingdom, but they do not have to gain their > salvation as we do, for they did not > sin...therefore, they do not need a soul. Do they > have feelings? Yes, i know they do. So did the Lamb > of God, Jesus, when He suffered and died for you. > > > Pankaja Dasa <pankaja_dasa wrote: > > > Hare Krishna Jaya Gauranga! > > I left because I didn't find anything of interest, > plus I posted a question, which never got posted. > Anytime I post somebody and people don't bother to > even inform me of why that is, i don't bother with > them, simple as.. > > > > So Brother Shane 'thou art so merciful' you would > eat a steak in heaven. God must love killing cows. > Cows who give milk. Sweet cows. Would you kill > your own mother? Or did you kill your own mother > after she breast feed you when you were a child? > You discust me. Cows are the most sacred animal in > the World. It gives milk for all of HUMANITY. And > what does HUMANITY do? It kills it. Good way to > show Gratititude. > > Are you still reading? Or do you skip what I say? > You act like Jesus Christ is merciless. What is the > difference between you and a dog? A god eats, mates > has sex, has meat food. You do the same. Only > difference is you have 2 legs and it has 4 legs. > Thats the way i see you. And you call yourself > BROTHER Shane, like you are so merciful to all > living beings. Tell me how a Cow cannot have a > soul? === message truncated === Regards, Srinivasa Upadhyaya P, SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Visit your group "" on the web. SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Visit your group "" on the web. Start your day with - make it your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 dear brother john you have written a nice mail covering all religions. in this part of the world, we knew well the topography of bharatkhand (including indonesia) and our vedic scriptures described the past, present and future in minute details. We are also aware of our vishnu sharma's panchatantram which is twisted by the walt disney to suit the western world. most hindu religious people are well read including holy books of other religions and we can quote verses from bible and koran just like we do from our gita. we are also aware of how emperor salauddin went in disguise to cure king richards who was invading and killing muslims to expand christianity. I too read from faces and predict as to which planet is in which house, without seeing the chart and miracles are aplenty in this holy land even today. Here i wish to highlight what adishankarachayra said in sanskrit in his commentary on brahma sutra I, 1-4 "Knowledge is born of evidence and evidence depends on things as they actually are. Therefore, knwoledge cannot be created, destroyed or varied. It only depends on facts and not on injunctions of scriptures. With best wishes arjun John Aldrich <johnaldrichinc wrote: Dear Friends, I belong to a devout christian family and quite a few of my relations are Bishops, nuns and priests in the catholic church. I am an ardent admirer of astrology. My beleif is that astrology is not wrong but the astrologer could be wrong. I have many a time got into active debaites with my own kith and kin who serve the church. Unfortunately many beleifs over a period of time have been manipulated by mankind to their own whims and fancies.A small example of it is. The entire world knows that Jesus Christ was crucified on a Friday and he rose on a sunday. And the book of mathew very clearly states that while he died on Frdiay, he rested on Saturday which was the Sabbath day and he rose on Sunday. Now why did he rest on the Sabbath day. It was because the 4th commandment very clearly states that thou shall rest on the sabbath day. When Jesus Christ himself rested on the Sabbath day, a saturday, hpow come then Sabbath became Sunday. Those days while Constantine was ruling, there used to be war between the Pagans and the Christians. Christians worshipped on Saturday and Pagans worshipped on Sunday. Constantine was a Pagan.( And remember all Hindus do Surya Namasakar,. Can we find some linkage here) To bring peace to the country, Constantine worked out with the Pope a deal, which was that he will become christiuan but worship on swundays. And because of his conversion, all the Pagans became christains. That is how Sunday became Sabbath day. While in the larger interest of the society, this could sound OK, but is man allowed to change the commandment which Jesus Christ himself followed so strictly and religiously that he rose from the dead on Sunday because there was Sabbath day in between. This is just one of the numerous manipulations that human beings have made ion the name of releigion and have used religion to emotionally balck mail people to imnpose their personal values on the larger community. If astrology would not have been there, would Jesus Christ be found at all. It was a future reader who told the 3 wise men to follow the star to find Jesus Christ. And today when I ask my beloved fraternity about this, when they say astrology is fake. They just blink. In fact, while I had visited Madras a few years back, I visited a renowned Siddha doctor. I w3as astounded by the expertise that he had. I was takemn there by an acquaintance. I went there with a lot os skepticism. But I realised what a great science astrology is after meeting him. The Siddha doctor felt my pulse and was dictating my astrological chart to his assistant by feeling my bpulse. He said I was Kannya Rasi, Rishabh lagna and mentioned every planetary position. In no moment my chart was ready. He looked at the chart and immediatel diagnosed what disease I had. I had Sinusitis and knee injury. I never told him my illness. He prescribed some diet along with some herbs. I am cured. I took some interest and asked him what it was all about. That is when he mentioned, that those days there was no microscope , no chemicals, no stethoscope. In the Gurukuls they taught the disciples to study the stars and its impact on the society. And from it evolved astrology. This over a period was mastered by various Sants. And they were able to identify the diseases, which was on account of the planetary position in the horoscope, And he siad instead feeding you with chemicals, what we do is neutralise the bad effects with some remedies and in the process give you diet restrictions. I then visited a Nadi astrologer and that is the time it dawned on me that the gurukuls taught the disciples what are the effects of each planet. I realised, the horoscope is not mine. But the planetary positions that are prevalent while I am born impacts my life. And Nadi leaves are writings or notes about the interaction between the Gurus and the disciples about various palentary positions. Because the planetary position is such when I was born the leaf reading isthe notes which I could refer to. But it is in my hands to identify the flaws in my horoscope and find remedial measures for the malefic planets and its positions and aspects and lead a life that I desire. I also saw in this forum a lot about Hinduism. But sadly, no mention about Indonesia. Indonesians were original Hindus. Just like Constantine when the King of the Java and Sumatra Islands became muslim, all Javanese and Sumatra island citizens became Muslims. But they still follow the Hindu Culture. The Ramayana Ballet in Prammanan temeple in Yogjakarta is one of the greatest Ballets in this world which every Hindu must witness. And beleive me, half the artists are muslims and the other half are christians, hindus and buddhists. Or for that matter the Lord Shiva Temple in Pluit, in jakarta, which is a landmark by itself is devoutly cleaned and maintained by muslims while Hindus do the worshiping,. Or for the matter the Hindu Island of Bali, which still practises some very ancient rituals which even Indian Hindus have foorgotten. Its an experience byu itself. It takes you back to the age when the Gurukulams were present. Just fantastic.. And not forget the divide between Muslims and Christians. How did it satrt. Abraham a jew asked for a child from God when he was very old. God told him to go and sleep and he will get a child. And his wife Sarah was apprehensive about conceiving. So she got her maid Fatima to sleep with Abraham and the child born out of this one night stand is Ismail. God pulled up Abraham for suspecting his word. He told him to sleep with Sarah, which he did and at that old age Sarah gave birth to Issac. The conflict between the step brothers led to 2 different beleifs in values which over a period of time evolved as Muslims and Jews from whoma major faction followed Jesus Christ to be known as Christians. And today the fight between the descendants of these 2 brothers isd seen in palestine which is boomeranging all over the world. Hence, all religions, I beleive came from one source and that is mankind. But due to the sixth sense, over a period of time, man has manipulated his way to interpret the values in his own way for his convenience and when a majority starts folloowing it, it becomes religion. This is my personal beleif. And as far as astrology is concerned, it is a science which every religion has recognised in some form or the other. But some do not want to acceot. I just pity their ignorance. Regards, John arjun pandit <panditarjun2004 wrote: dear friends though this group is not the perfect forum for such religious hatred, am touching few things on history part: 1. the bharat khand (continent of bharat) is the original map of india which has more than dozen countries which are now separated from the indian sub continent. 2. this ancient holy land of bharat khand has welcomed all religions with open arms. 3. peace loving religions like buddhism and jainism were born in this great country 4. invading religions like christianity and islam too have been welcomed in which process billions of hindus were butchered by these invaders who looted as much material treasure as they could and are still enjoying that money in their respective countries. 5. sikhism was also born in this great country to protect hindus from the then invading muslims. 6. parsis who came in shiploads to gujarat symbolised themselves as sugar added to milk and are the best wealth creators for this country as well as for themselves. 7. there are many miraculous historic truths related to moses and jesus in the kashmir valley which many people do not know. 8. first complete colony of christians in the world was allowed to form at calicut. 9. ramapant conversion of hindus to various religions was allowed by hindus. 10. Bharat has never invaded any other country on their own and even in the last fought kargil war, allowed free and safe return of the invaders by giving extended time to the invaders. 11. Today Goldman Sachhs forecasts that India and China would become the two most developed nations in the next 50 years. Hope the learned brother agree to the above facts. Now, few facts for the brother from the west: 1. rumsfeld was present in baghdad whe iraq was using chemical weapons supplied to them by usa, against iran. some say he was personally supervising that operation then. 2. usa invaded iraq with their fellow partner uk on the pretext of protecting the iraqis but till date usa has killed countless (some US based NGOs keep the figure at a million) innocent iraqi children, women and old people even as convicting their own soldiers. Enough food for thought for my historian brothers. with best wishes arjun ps: the group owner/moderator may ban posting such mails if he finds the contents are factually incorrect. SRINIVASA UPADHYAYA <upadhyaya_p_s wrote: Dear friend, Please do not re-write Indian History. Our history has been tampered by everyone in the world. Our politicians are so great that they never gave any importance to our history. Every where brahmins have been neglected. No importance to intelligence. We have been torn apart by these politicians in each and every sphere. Do not assume that chistianity is the first religion that swept south. It is your mistake to think so. Europeans were able to destroy culture of each and every country that they stepped onto. Only in India, they were not able to do so. So they acted like businessmen and slowly started destroying out culture, religin and every thing. Now it is our politicians, who are very fond of continuing the british tradition. Indians never converted anyone. As out belief is that a person should get birth in Hindu religon and nobody can be converted to hindu. These conversions are spreaded by christians and muslim. God save our country --- Brother Shane <truebeliever_777 wrote: > Deva Evu Lawrie <evulawrie wrote:I > remember reading in "The Hindu" a leading English > Daily in India about a ghastly incident that had > taken place in Rajasthan, India some months back. > It so happened that two Dalit men (low caste men) > were cutting an old dead cow. (They had not killed > it since it had died naturally). A large group of > fanatic high caste Hindus hearing about it rushed to > the spot and killed the two Dalit men. These people > who are against the slaughtering of animals even for > food or protection have no qualms about killing > human beings in the name of religion. It is really > a pity. I hope our friend Pankaja Dasa understands > this. (Pankaja I guess means - Lotus). In this > context I would also like to mention a saying "The > Greatest hatred is Religious Hatred and the First > murder was Religious Murder". > > By the way, I would like to mention that the words > 'Hindu' or 'India' did not originate from any > religion. They originated from the name of a river > called INDUS ( S - being silent). India was the > region where the river INDUS was flowing even in the > days of King Ahasuerus of the Bible and also > Alexander, The Great Greek Emperor. Alexander seems > to have come up to the western bank of river Indus > and left. > > At that time in the Southern parts of the present > India there were local deities worshipped by the > people. In the First Century A.D., Christianity was > the major religion that entered India through > Apostle Thomas in the Southern parts of the present > India including Kerala and Tamil Nadu where he was > martyred. Therefore one can easily see that > Christianity was the first major religion that swept > the South. > > Later when the Muslim Rulers came, they united many > different parts of the present India and called it > India. The British then united all the states > including Pakistan and Bangladesh and states of > South India and called the Federation as India in > their turn. When the British left India they > partitioned it as India, West Pakistan and East > Pakistan which is Bangladesh today. Fortunately or > Unfortunately, the original land of India where the > river Indus flows is now called Pakistan. > > In the clash or amalgamation of the cultures of the > North and the South, the majority want to assert, > dominate and enforce their culture and religion upon > the South and also upon the minority religions in > India such as Islam and Christianity. Therefore > they call their culture Hindutva (Indutva) which at > present has no meaning or relevance being far away > from the Original India or the River Indus. > > With Regards > Deva Evu Lawrie > - > Brother Shane > Pankaja Dasa > Cc: bibletruths_forbelievers > Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:28 AM > Re: Fwd: [bibletruths_forbelievers] Re: > Thou Shall not kill > > > Thank you for your kind, loving and caring words, my > dear Hindu friend! > > I can see that your gita book has taught you well. > > As far as me killing cows...i don't know what ever > gave you that idea. Seems you skipped over most of > what i wrote (by the way, i read every word you > write ). > > Pankaja, God does not kill cows. He doesn't really > kill anything. Man kills. > > I said that, when we are in heaven, we will be as > God is. We can speak anything we want into > existance. If i want to eat a steak then i can just > speak and a steak will appear before me. I don't > have to kill anything. Besides, you made an > assumption that i was referring to beef steak. A > steak can come from many different animals...but a > steak in heaven would not come from anything dead. > Because there is no death in God's Kingdom. > > Am so glad you appreciate what the Lord Jesus Christ > has created! Too many people do not see the beauty > in nature. Brother Branham was also a nature lover. > You should read of the time he prayed for a wounded > opposum mother. It's a moving testimony! He had such > a deep love of all of God's creatures! > > I have not read this gita book you are talking > about...but I'm sure there is truth in it. Are you > referring to the Baghavadgita (not sure of the > spelling)? If so, then i have read a few parts of > it. It's many, many books in one. Some call it the > 'Hindu Bible'. I believe much of it was written > before the great flood. Back when Krishna was a > king. Nearly 6,000 years ago! Quite an amazing book. > > Too bad you cannot see that i am sincere in > everything i say. My friends know me and they can > tell you i mean what i say and i say what i mean. > I'm an aries/tiger, in the zodiac. People born under > these signs are fiercly and brutally honest. Not > that i mean to offend people but sometimes i > unintentionally do. > I don't read horrorscopes but i do believe that we > are born under the influence of stars and > gravitational fields. It does effect our personality > somewhat. Brother Branham talked about it a bit, and > he also said even your name can have an effect on > your personality. > > My name, Shane, is a Gaelic or Keltic name. It's > John in English. It has a good meaning and I'm > thankful i have it. > > By the way, what does Pankaja mean? It has a nice > sound to it. > > > Well, you seem to be a bit sleepy, so I'll > stop chewin your ear off and let you go get some > rest. > > Calling me a dog...come on now! You need some winks > my friend. > > > A dog goes back to his own vomit...sort of like a > person that has forsaken the good things God gave > him, to go eat something man has perverted. > I really despise man-made things. Nothing makes me > happier than to be out with nature. I can stand > under a grove of palm trees and talk to them like > they were my own brethren. Have you ever done that > Pankaja? > > By the way, if you stepped in a fire ant hill, or > had cockroaches crawling all over you, would you be > kind to them too? > > Have a nice nap! > > God bless all that Love the Lord Jesus Christ. > > Your friend (by faith), > > Brother Shane > > p.s. - i do not believe that animals have souls. > Yes, they have a spirit, but all spirits come from > God and will go back to Him, when the creature dies. > I do believe many animals will be a part of God's > Kingdom, but they do not have to gain their > salvation as we do, for they did not > sin...therefore, they do not need a soul. Do they > have feelings? Yes, i know they do. So did the Lamb > of God, Jesus, when He suffered and died for you. > > > Pankaja Dasa <pankaja_dasa wrote: > > > Hare Krishna Jaya Gauranga! > > I left because I didn't find anything of interest, > plus I posted a question, which never got posted. > Anytime I post somebody and people don't bother to > even inform me of why that is, i don't bother with > them, simple as.. > > > > So Brother Shane 'thou art so merciful' you would > eat a steak in heaven. God must love killing cows. > Cows who give milk. Sweet cows. Would you kill > your own mother? Or did you kill your own mother > after she breast feed you when you were a child? > You discust me. Cows are the most sacred animal in > the World. It gives milk for all of HUMANITY. And > what does HUMANITY do? It kills it. Good way to > show Gratititude. > > Are you still reading? Or do you skip what I say? > You act like Jesus Christ is merciless. What is the > difference between you and a dog? A god eats, mates > has sex, has meat food. You do the same. Only > difference is you have 2 legs and it has 4 legs. > Thats the way i see you. And you call yourself > BROTHER Shane, like you are so merciful to all > living beings. Tell me how a Cow cannot have a > soul? === message truncated === Regards, Srinivasa Upadhyaya P, SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Visit your group "" on the web. SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Visit your group "" on the web. Start your day with - make it your home page SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software Visit your group "" on the web. Start your day with - make it your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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