Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Deepak ji, <<<when a planet is retrograde it becomes more powerful. Its speed "chesta" becomes more and the planet grows "younger". Hence it gives very powerful results (either for good or bad depending on the state and position of the planet in the chart).>>> I agree with you. In Sarvato Bhadra Chakra, for instance, a Vakra graha is seen as getting more power to do its task - so, in SBC, Vakra Sani's malefic nature is enhanced, while Vakra Guru's benefic power grows. <<<I don't think retrograde neecha planet acts like uccha (and vice versa).>>> Well, one of the classic Neecha Bhanga parameters is that a neecha Graha, when Vakra, loses Neechatva. Similarly, is it not possible that an Uccha Graha, when Vakra, is capable of behaving strangely? In such cases, can this not then cause a reduction of the Uccha effects? "Bhanga" means cancellation. But, in my personal humble opinion, we need to consider "Bhanga" as reduction, not outright cancellation. Take the case of Neecha Bhanga Raja Yoga - people think it is great, but people still suffer during the Dasa/Bukti of the Neecha graha! Of course, the graha that gives NBRY usually proves helpful. Case in point - in my own chart, I have Neecha Guru, and Kuja, by being in Kendra from Lagna gives me NBRY. Kuja Antar gave me a good job - but, Guru Bukti, which followed, caused me to lose it! <<<Regarding Guru, for Tula lagna, it is true that he is the lord of two malefic houses (3rd and 6th). However Bhavartha Ratnakar teachings say that that despite being lord of two malefic houses, Guru is a benefic for Tula lagna.>>> A graha placed in a upachaya house will help, but I don't think that mere ownership of an upachaya makes a graha benefic. If this were the case, then the 6th house would never be a dushtana in anybody's chart! Many people attribute a great deal of goodness to Guru - but, as Rohini ji's recent example (Dhanur Lagna; Guru in Kataka, Kuja in Makara) points out, predictions based upon the assumption of Guru's benovelence don't always turn out to be true. We tend to automatically assume in such cases that Uccha Lagnadipati's aspect on the 2nd should be good, and consider the ucchatva of the 5th lord there as good, and concur that the mutual aspect of the 4th and the 5th lords is good. Unfortunately, as Rohini ji has pointed out, it need not be always the case! ~~~~~~~ Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs Editor, The Partial Art of Detection ~~~~~~~ Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Dear Balaji. Once again, thank you for the wonderful insight. I agree that Jupiter retrograde will diminish and reduce some of his beneficial aspects. I am tula lagna myself my Kuja in 10th (debilitated in cancer). Jupiter Retrograde is in 8th house along with Exalted Moon in Krittika. I am presently in Jupiter Dasa which started in 2003. I am very interested in getting your opinion on how my Jupiter dasa will be. Regards. Deepak , Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote: > > Deepak ji, > > <<<when a planet is retrograde it becomes more powerful. Its > speed "chesta" becomes more and the planet grows "younger". > Hence it gives very powerful results (either for good or bad > depending on the state and position of the planet in the > chart).>>> > > I agree with you. In Sarvato Bhadra Chakra, for instance, a > Vakra graha is seen as getting more power to do its task - so, > in SBC, Vakra Sani's malefic nature is enhanced, while Vakra > Guru's benefic power grows. > > <<<I don't think retrograde neecha planet acts like uccha (and > vice versa).>>> > > Well, one of the classic Neecha Bhanga parameters is that a > neecha Graha, when Vakra, loses Neechatva. Similarly, is it not > possible that an Uccha Graha, when Vakra, is capable of behaving > strangely? In such cases, can this not then cause a reduction of > the Uccha effects? > > "Bhanga" means cancellation. But, in my personal humble opinion, > we need to consider "Bhanga" as reduction, not outright > cancellation. Take the case of Neecha Bhanga Raja Yoga - people > think it is great, but people still suffer during the Dasa/Bukti > of the Neecha graha! Of course, the graha that gives NBRY > usually proves helpful. > > Case in point - in my own chart, I have Neecha Guru, and Kuja, > by being in Kendra from Lagna gives me NBRY. Kuja Antar gave me > a good job - but, Guru Bukti, which followed, caused me to lose > it! > > <<<Regarding Guru, for Tula lagna, it is true that he is the > lord of two malefic houses (3rd and 6th). However Bhavartha > Ratnakar teachings say that that despite being lord of two > malefic houses, Guru is a benefic for Tula lagna.>>> > > A graha placed in a upachaya house will help, but I don't think > that mere ownership of an upachaya makes a graha benefic. If > this were the case, then the 6th house would never be a dushtana > in anybody's chart! > > Many people attribute a great deal of goodness to Guru - but, as > Rohini ji's recent example (Dhanur Lagna; Guru in Kataka, Kuja > in Makara) points out, predictions based upon the assumption of > Guru's benovelence don't always turn out to be true. We tend to > automatically assume in such cases that Uccha Lagnadipati's > aspect on the 2nd should be good, and consider the ucchatva of > the 5th lord there as good, and concur that the mutual aspect of > the 4th and the 5th lords is good. Unfortunately, as Rohini ji > has pointed out, it need not be always the case! > > > > ~~~~~~~ > Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs > Editor, The Partial Art of Detection > ~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Dear Mr Balaji, Iam just picking up athred that has a very interesting poser: "is it notpossible that an Uccha Graha, when Vakra, is capable of behaving strangely? In such cases, can this not then cause a reduction of the Uccha effects?" In materialistic signs represented by venus,mars and mercury the issue often is fulfilment of desires and the fight for existence.In the process the planets support the ascendant by way of position,aspect and combustion(PAC).when struggle increases and fulfilment is eluded despite benifics palced strongly,the rajayogas whatever that exist have no meaning and recognition.here bhanga is only obstruction not cancellation and not even reduction.when you analyse in terms of debilitation and apply by logic to benifics in retrogration in exaltation and leads only to some kind of radda yogas and become incapable by isfar yoga as in Tajik sense.The point I want to make is expectation from benific planets with rference to lagna/ascendant is more a betterway to understand as given in bhavartha ratnakara.Fulfilement of goals wishes as aper natal signs is more based on the way the palnets and bahvas interact and deliver rather than complicated states involved in exaltation of benific palnets in retrograde state.we often feel desperate when results as expected,anticipated are not forthcoming despite the fact of classifications made as benific and malefic. may be this is where mr Rohini has come up with his clarification that sounds as perinterpretation of classicals also. krishnan deepak_vishnu <deepak_vishnu wrote: Dear Balaji. Once again, thank you for the wonderful insight. I agree that Jupiter retrograde will diminish and reduce some of his beneficial aspects. I am tula lagna myself my Kuja in 10th (debilitated in cancer). Jupiter Retrograde is in 8th house along with Exalted Moon in Krittika. I am presently in Jupiter Dasa which started in 2003. I am very interested in getting your opinion on how my Jupiter dasa will be. Regards. Deepak , Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji> wrote: > > Deepak ji, > > <<<when a planet is retrograde it becomes more powerful. Its > speed "chesta" becomes more and the planet grows "younger". > Hence it gives very powerful results (either for good or bad > depending on the state and position of the planet in the > chart).>>> > > I agree with you. In Sarvato Bhadra Chakra, for instance, a > Vakra graha is seen as getting more power to do its task - so, > in SBC, Vakra Sani's malefic nature is enhanced, while Vakra > Guru's benefic power grows. > > <<<I don't think retrograde neecha planet acts like uccha (and > vice versa).>>> > > Well, one of the classic Neecha Bhanga parameters is that a > neecha Graha, when Vakra, loses Neechatva. Similarly, is it not > possible that an Uccha Graha, when Vakra, is capable of behaving > strangely? In such cases, can this not then cause a reduction of > the Uccha effects? > > "Bhanga" means cancellation. But, in my personal humble opinion, > we need to consider "Bhanga" as reduction, not outright > cancellation. Take the case of Neecha Bhanga Raja Yoga - people > think it is great, but people still suffer during the Dasa/Bukti > of the Neecha graha! Of course, the graha that gives NBRY > usually proves helpful. > > Case in point - in my own chart, I have Neecha Guru, and Kuja, > by being in Kendra from Lagna gives me NBRY. Kuja Antar gave me > a good job - but, Guru Bukti, which followed, caused me to lose > it! > > <<<Regarding Guru, for Tula lagna, it is true that he is the > lord of two malefic houses (3rd and 6th). However Bhavartha > Ratnakar teachings say that that despite being lord of two > malefic houses, Guru is a benefic for Tula lagna.>>> > > A graha placed in a upachaya house will help, but I don't think > that mere ownership of an upachaya makes a graha benefic. If > this were the case, then the 6th house would never be a dushtana > in anybody's chart! > > Many people attribute a great deal of goodness to Guru - but, as > Rohini ji's recent example (Dhanur Lagna; Guru in Kataka, Kuja > in Makara) points out, predictions based upon the assumption of > Guru's benovelence don't always turn out to be true. We tend to > automatically assume in such cases that Uccha Lagnadipati's > aspect on the 2nd should be good, and consider the ucchatva of > the 5th lord there as good, and concur that the mutual aspect of > the 4th and the 5th lords is good. Unfortunately, as Rohini ji > has pointed out, it need not be always the case! > > > > ~~~~~~~ > Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs > Editor, The Partial Art of Detection > ~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Dada, What a nice post! A few years ago, I read Dr. Charak's book on medical astrology, being somewhat taken by that field myself -- where he mentioned about retrograde planets always/often causing a physical problem or ailment regardless of their other good or bad effects. Anecdotally, I have see that often enough to really believe in that to be a true observation. That said, I have always seen the phasic phenomenon of exaltation/debilitation as a sort of pakshabala (akin to moon) whereby, at the point of exaltation, a planet is not so much stronger but more able to tune into or resonate to its benefic nature and at debility the opposite. Often one would see that a planet at its extreme exaltation point would not be strong in shadbala or vimshopaka bala (which interestingly does not take into consideration exaltation!) and the coverse is true as well. This then sets up a situation where a mellowed malefic in quality (exalted mars for instance) might be not so strong. You will see a calm disposition there with ability to resist and not get ballistic and volatile but a martial nature all the same in its better or positive manner. On the other hand is the debilitated jupiter that is strong in shadbala. A rigid but otherwise pious person who can be quite cynical perhaps. These are empirical things and not gained from classics literally, I must sound the caveat. Classics indicate different views for the qualitative and quantitative changes that retrograde planets go through. Retrogression has been defined as a phenomenon when certain natural celestial forces (seegrochcha/mandochcha etc) work on planets. This symbolizes for me a situation where the flow of energy is not natural and an important lesson is to be learned. Individuals will have different signature and I cannot capture it all in a posting of this brevity. Astrology has never worked in my hands and for me in a simple look-up table kind of situation. "If this then that" sort of a reality. Hence I get a bit frustrated when people start printing out yogas from their software and run into all kinds of contradictions etc. I have probably already spoken too much in the presence of elders, so must now retreat ... , vattem krishnan <bursar_99> wrote: > > Dear Mr Balaji, > Iam just picking up athred that has a very interesting poser: > "is it notpossible that an Uccha Graha, when Vakra, is capable of behaving strangely? In such cases, can this not then cause a reduction of the Uccha effects?" > In materialistic signs represented by venus,mars and mercury the issue often is fulfilment of desires and the fight for existence.In the process the planets support the ascendant by way of position,aspect and combustion(PAC).when struggle increases and fulfilment is eluded despite benifics palced strongly,the rajayogas whatever that exist have no meaning and recognition.here bhanga is only obstruction not cancellation and not even reduction.when you analyse in terms of debilitation and apply by logic to benifics in retrogration in exaltation and leads only to some kind of radda yogas and become incapable by isfar yoga as in Tajik sense.The point I want to make is expectation from benific planets with rference to lagna/ascendant is more a betterway to understand as given in bhavartha ratnakara.Fulfilement of goals wishes as aper natal signs is more based on the way the palnets and bahvas interact and deliver rather than complicated states involved in exaltation of benific palnets in > retrograde state.we often feel desperate when results as expected,anticipated are not forthcoming despite the fact of classifications made as benific and malefic. > may be this is where mr Rohini has come up with his clarification that sounds as perinterpretation of classicals also. > krishnan > > > deepak_vishnu <deepak_vishnu> wrote: > Dear Balaji. > Once again, thank you for the wonderful insight. I agree that > Jupiter retrograde will diminish and reduce some of his beneficial > aspects. I am tula lagna myself my Kuja in 10th (debilitated in > cancer). Jupiter Retrograde is in 8th house along with Exalted Moon > in Krittika. I am presently in Jupiter Dasa which started in 2003. I > am very interested in getting your opinion on how my Jupiter dasa > will be. Regards. > Deepak > > > , Balaji Narasimhan > <sherlockbalaji> wrote: > > > > Deepak ji, > > > > <<<when a planet is retrograde it becomes more powerful. Its > > speed "chesta" becomes more and the planet grows "younger". > > Hence it gives very powerful results (either for good or bad > > depending on the state and position of the planet in the > > chart).>>> > > > > I agree with you. In Sarvato Bhadra Chakra, for instance, a > > Vakra graha is seen as getting more power to do its task - so, > > in SBC, Vakra Sani's malefic nature is enhanced, while Vakra > > Guru's benefic power grows. > > > > <<<I don't think retrograde neecha planet acts like uccha (and > > vice versa).>>> > > > > Well, one of the classic Neecha Bhanga parameters is that a > > neecha Graha, when Vakra, loses Neechatva. Similarly, is it not > > possible that an Uccha Graha, when Vakra, is capable of behaving > > strangely? In such cases, can this not then cause a reduction of > > the Uccha effects? > > > > "Bhanga" means cancellation. But, in my personal humble opinion, > > we need to consider "Bhanga" as reduction, not outright > > cancellation. Take the case of Neecha Bhanga Raja Yoga - people > > think it is great, but people still suffer during the Dasa/Bukti > > of the Neecha graha! Of course, the graha that gives NBRY > > usually proves helpful. > > > > Case in point - in my own chart, I have Neecha Guru, and Kuja, > > by being in Kendra from Lagna gives me NBRY. Kuja Antar gave me > > a good job - but, Guru Bukti, which followed, caused me to lose > > it! > > > > <<<Regarding Guru, for Tula lagna, it is true that he is the > > lord of two malefic houses (3rd and 6th). However Bhavartha > > Ratnakar teachings say that that despite being lord of two > > malefic houses, Guru is a benefic for Tula lagna.>>> > > > > A graha placed in a upachaya house will help, but I don't think > > that mere ownership of an upachaya makes a graha benefic. If > > this were the case, then the 6th house would never be a dushtana > > in anybody's chart! > > > > Many people attribute a great deal of goodness to Guru - but, as > > Rohini ji's recent example (Dhanur Lagna; Guru in Kataka, Kuja > > in Makara) points out, predictions based upon the assumption of > > Guru's benovelence don't always turn out to be true. We tend to > > automatically assume in such cases that Uccha Lagnadipati's > > aspect on the 2nd should be good, and consider the ucchatva of > > the 5th lord there as good, and concur that the mutual aspect of > > the 4th and the 5th lords is good. Unfortunately, as Rohini ji > > has pointed out, it need not be always the case! > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~ > > Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm > > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs > > Editor, The Partial Art of Detection > > ~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Dear Friends, Probably this is what the sense I wanted to convey.May be my earlier mail has not fulfilled my aim.But phenomenal Rohiniji and in the cryptic way as he is known has simplified classics when he cites: "where the flow of energy is not natural"and an important lesson is to be learned. Individuals will have different signature" Hats off to you bhai saab! Regards krishnan "Rohini (Crystal Pages)" <rrgb wrote: Dada, What a nice post! A few years ago, I read Dr. Charak's book on medical astrology, being somewhat taken by that field myself -- where he mentioned about retrograde planets always/often causing a physical problem or ailment regardless of their other good or bad effects. Anecdotally, I have see that often enough to really believe in that to be a true observation. That said, I have always seen the phasic phenomenon of exaltation/debilitation as a sort of pakshabala (akin to moon) whereby, at the point of exaltation, a planet is not so much stronger but more able to tune into or resonate to its benefic nature and at debility the opposite. Often one would see that a planet at its extreme exaltation point would not be strong in shadbala or vimshopaka bala (which interestingly does not take into consideration exaltation!) and the coverse is true as well. This then sets up a situation where a mellowed malefic in quality (exalted mars for instance) might be not so strong. You will see a calm disposition there with ability to resist and not get ballistic and volatile but a martial nature all the same in its better or positive manner. On the other hand is the debilitated jupiter that is strong in shadbala. A rigid but otherwise pious person who can be quite cynical perhaps. These are empirical things and not gained from classics literally, I must sound the caveat. Classics indicate different views for the qualitative and quantitative changes that retrograde planets go through. Retrogression has been defined as a phenomenon when certain natural celestial forces (seegrochcha/mandochcha etc) work on planets. This symbolizes for me a situation where the flow of energy is not natural and an important lesson is to be learned. Individuals will have different signature and I cannot capture it all in a posting of this brevity. Astrology has never worked in my hands and for me in a simple look-up table kind of situation. "If this then that" sort of a reality. Hence I get a bit frustrated when people start printing out yogas from their software and run into all kinds of contradictions etc. I have probably already spoken too much in the presence of elders, so must now retreat ... , vattem krishnan <bursar_99> wrote: > > Dear Mr Balaji, > Iam just picking up athred that has a very interesting poser: > "is it notpossible that an Uccha Graha, when Vakra, is capable of behaving strangely? In such cases, can this not then cause a reduction of the Uccha effects?" > In materialistic signs represented by venus,mars and mercury the issue often is fulfilment of desires and the fight for existence.In the process the planets support the ascendant by way of position,aspect and combustion(PAC).when struggle increases and fulfilment is eluded despite benifics palced strongly,the rajayogas whatever that exist have no meaning and recognition.here bhanga is only obstruction not cancellation and not even reduction.when you analyse in terms of debilitation and apply by logic to benifics in retrogration in exaltation and leads only to some kind of radda yogas and become incapable by isfar yoga as in Tajik sense.The point I want to make is expectation from benific planets with rference to lagna/ascendant is more a betterway to understand as given in bhavartha ratnakara.Fulfilement of goals wishes as aper natal signs is more based on the way the palnets and bahvas interact and deliver rather than complicated states involved in exaltation of benific palnets in > retrograde state.we often feel desperate when results as expected,anticipated are not forthcoming despite the fact of classifications made as benific and malefic. > may be this is where mr Rohini has come up with his clarification that sounds as perinterpretation of classicals also. > krishnan > > > deepak_vishnu <deepak_vishnu> wrote: > Dear Balaji. > Once again, thank you for the wonderful insight. I agree that > Jupiter retrograde will diminish and reduce some of his beneficial > aspects. I am tula lagna myself my Kuja in 10th (debilitated in > cancer). Jupiter Retrograde is in 8th house along with Exalted Moon > in Krittika. I am presently in Jupiter Dasa which started in 2003. I > am very interested in getting your opinion on how my Jupiter dasa > will be. Regards. > Deepak > > > , Balaji Narasimhan > <sherlockbalaji> wrote: > > > > Deepak ji, > > > > <<<when a planet is retrograde it becomes more powerful. Its > > speed "chesta" becomes more and the planet grows "younger". > > Hence it gives very powerful results (either for good or bad > > depending on the state and position of the planet in the > > chart).>>> > > > > I agree with you. In Sarvato Bhadra Chakra, for instance, a > > Vakra graha is seen as getting more power to do its task - so, > > in SBC, Vakra Sani's malefic nature is enhanced, while Vakra > > Guru's benefic power grows. > > > > <<<I don't think retrograde neecha planet acts like uccha (and > > vice versa).>>> > > > > Well, one of the classic Neecha Bhanga parameters is that a > > neecha Graha, when Vakra, loses Neechatva. Similarly, is it not > > possible that an Uccha Graha, when Vakra, is capable of behaving > > strangely? In such cases, can this not then cause a reduction of > > the Uccha effects? > > > > "Bhanga" means cancellation. But, in my personal humble opinion, > > we need to consider "Bhanga" as reduction, not outright > > cancellation. Take the case of Neecha Bhanga Raja Yoga - people > > think it is great, but people still suffer during the Dasa/Bukti > > of the Neecha graha! Of course, the graha that gives NBRY > > usually proves helpful. > > > > Case in point - in my own chart, I have Neecha Guru, and Kuja, > > by being in Kendra from Lagna gives me NBRY. Kuja Antar gave me > > a good job - but, Guru Bukti, which followed, caused me to lose > > it! > > > > <<<Regarding Guru, for Tula lagna, it is true that he is the > > lord of two malefic houses (3rd and 6th). However Bhavartha > > Ratnakar teachings say that that despite being lord of two > > malefic houses, Guru is a benefic for Tula lagna.>>> > > > > A graha placed in a upachaya house will help, but I don't think > > that mere ownership of an upachaya makes a graha benefic. If > > this were the case, then the 6th house would never be a dushtana > > in anybody's chart! > > > > Many people attribute a great deal of goodness to Guru - but, as > > Rohini ji's recent example (Dhanur Lagna; Guru in Kataka, Kuja > > in Makara) points out, predictions based upon the assumption of > > Guru's benovelence don't always turn out to be true. We tend to > > automatically assume in such cases that Uccha Lagnadipati's > > aspect on the 2nd should be good, and consider the ucchatva of > > the 5th lord there as good, and concur that the mutual aspect of > > the 4th and the 5th lords is good. Unfortunately, as Rohini ji > > has pointed out, it need not be always the case! > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~ > > Balaji Narasimhan * http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm > > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs > > Editor, The Partial Art of Detection > > ~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > > > > Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology > > > > > > Visit your group "" on the web. > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Vedic astrology Free vedic astrology Visit your group "" on the web. FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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