astro A Bonds hindering <promoting, I say!> spiritual progress

April 13, 2006

Two cents even though unsolicitated!

If you look at traditional literature -- it would seem that it was a

well mentored and well-proctored reality back then with teachers and

support systems not just available but essential and mandatory, some

would proclaim.

We really do not have accounts of history in terms of what actually

was, few thousands of years ago, though I have the gut feeling that

what we consider as tradition was not just thousands of years even

older than proclaimed (and debated by a few) but even older, almost

as if there was a gene jump at some point. If we knew that that

really happened,despite intermittent seemingly total annihilations,

then the meaning of 'Shashwat' may dawn more urgently and

significantly on our perceptions. To some this may smack of mythology

and mythical. Let them enjoy their moment of glory!

So, history, really ancient history must be perceived, recreated

almost based on no evidence, no documents that survived -- that were

not meant to survive perhaps, because the UNIVERSE, the Shashwat

Universe seems to believe in reboots! Minor reboots include natural

calamities, the latest examples being the Tsunamis but the real and

scary *atlantis* of modern times being NEW ORLEANS. One of the

biggest annihilative challenges thrown in the face of humanity in

recent times. Total wipeout! Will it emerge? Will Atlantis reemerge?

For those who may know, Mardi gras is a big tradition of New Orleans

and Texas took upon it this year while New Orleans recuperates

slowly -- just so that the tradition does not die. I translate that

to say: So that human spirit as we know it does not die. And really,

that is what tradition is about, dear friends. Not crumbling books,

or buildings that are falling to pieces and rituals too in some

settings, but the HUMAN SPIRIT! Bravo New Orleanians! Through your

misery and personal losses you have demonstrated to us the power of

human spirit and that the ATLANTIS EXPERIENCE was not a myth.

Atlanteans had much psychic powers and pyramids, some say. We as a

world community have lost Atlantis but this world has perhaps

retained everything that was magnificient and great and covetable and

worthy of retention. True it looks a bit like a war zone, like a

disaster zone but it is all there. All that was worthy of living on,

though some details may have gone missing. Jyotish aussi!

The current reality is, like it or not -- coffee/tea arriving or not

in bed -- not structured and mentors and teachers though galore and

arriving in baker's dozen (13 to a dozen for anyone not familiar with

that idiom) are suspect, for the most part. This is not my judgment

but just ask around privately. Lot of people shy away from stating

things like that publicly. Those that do and question get beaten up!

Even history and historical myths and glib, undocumented,

unsubstantiated claims and pronouncements about history must be

questioned and challenged. A few individuals a few years were

seriously questioning about the aryan-dravidian 'history' that most

of us were taught and take for granted, taught by europeans who had

the "point of power" in terms of how history was written and

propagated in the last few hundred years (at least in India) and even

how MAPS were made worldwide and regions depicted MISPROPORTIONATELY

(the different projections, for instance, mercator and so on).

I am not a scholar in these matters but know enough and am alert

enough to raise doubts so that the wary and scholars may wake up,

unless they are not already. I am really doing their job -- why they

are so complacent? There seem to be too many of them around and

should have really made some changes and stirred the place up?

Unless they all agree and endorse that History as we were taught in

schools from say 1930 onwards, at least in India is all hunky dory

and endorsed by the cogniscenti of India! So Aryans came from Asia

minor on horsebacks and drove the dravidians down to the south and

end of story.

I am from the east, genetically, in this lifetime anyway, but somehow

this story sounds too simplistic -- even given nothing as basic as

jyotish. And if one studies the other Aryan scriptures, the history

somehow seems even less plausible. Creators of Vedas, Puranas and

Samhitas, mere horseback riders trying to chase the darker races

south, just for the heck of it?

Seems more like the Europeans invading the native americans in their

land, overthrowing and sequestering their culture and mostly 'oral

tradition' into remote reserves! Or Europeans doing the same to

natives of Africa.

I do not wish to start a riot or more importantly hurt any european

brothers and sisters on this forum but just to bring out the

simplistic and almost unbelievable similarity of such assumptions

that some make in the name of tradition. This is a general remark and

not necessarily something I read on this forum, so please keep your

danders down, friends and attack the premise and not the MESSENGER,

yet again!

RR

, "jyotish" <jyotish.bh

wrote:

>

> Respected Sir

>

> with due respects and apologies,

>

> Should we really have same chapters of gita implemented same way

though the kurukshetra and the rules of game stand much different?

>

> Need we not ask for the benefits after we put in years of sincere

efforts in the job/business?

> or leave it for our rivals/colleagues?

>

> Will our next generation of IT ..listen to us?

>

> do we have today any great gurus/Sai Shirdi/Mahapurush that we

offer all our crop and we are sure we get back anything.

> WE need more acclimatised rules and regulations and still gain

spiritually?

>

> regards

> Rps

>

> -

> surya

>

> Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:10 PM

> Re: Bonds hindering spiritual progress

>

> dear sir

>

> The scriptures say that your sacrifice of money is highest.

>

> 1) In the very beginning itself (second Adhyaya), Gita says that

the

> fruit of the work must be sacrificed (Karmajam Buddhi Yuktahi

Phalam

> Tyaktva Maneeshinah). This means that realized scholars sacrifice

> the fruit of the work. Gita keeps sacrifice of the fruit of the

work

> on the top most level. Gita says `Jnanat dhyanam visishyate,

Dhyanat

> Karma Phala Tyagah'i.e., Bhakti (devotion) is better than Jnana

> (knowledge) and sacrificing the fruit of your work (money) is

better

> than Bakthi.

>

> 2) Gita says `Sarva karma Phala tyagam', `prahuh tyagam

> vichakshanah' i.e., if you can give the fruit of the entire work

to

> the Lord, then that is real sacrifice.

>

> 3)`Na karmana, Na prajaya, Dhanena, tyage naike Amritatvam

Aanasuh'

> i.e., you cannot attain God by selfish work or the children. You

> can attain God only by sacrificing your money for God's work.

>

> 4)The first words of the first Upanishath (Easavaasyam) says,

`Tena

> tyaktena Bhunjeedah' `Ma gradha ha kasyasvit Dhanam' i.e., this

> entire world is the money of the Lord. Take whatever you require

> from His wealth; don't take extra which is not permitted by the

> God. If you have taken, you are a thief. Return it back to the

> Lord.

>

> 5) Veda says `Samvidha' `Shraddhayaa' `Hriya' `Bhiya dheyam',

i.e.,

> return the extra to the Lord in human form after recognizing Him

> through His Jnana. Wait patiently till you recognize the Lord in

> human form. When you are donating your money to Him (actually

you

> are giving Him His own money) you should give it with fear and

feel

> shy.

>

> 6) In Yoga Vasistha the Guru Vasista says to Rama (Dhanamarjaya)

> i.e., bring money and offer it to me as Guru Dakshina before I

can

> teach you the Jnana.

>

> Shirdi Sai used to ask Guru Dakshina from everybody to teach this

> important sacrifice. He criticized a merchant who came for

Brahma

> Jnana but was not giving even Rs.5/- from his pocket. Mr. Patil,

a

> farmer used to donate the entire yearly crop to Baba and took

back

> whatever Baba gave back to him.

>

> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

> surya

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

> vattem krishnan <bursar_99@> wrote:

> > Sir,

> > since money is the root of this whole `samsara'. This may be

a

> narrow approach if we consider 'karmabhoomi" as janmabhoomi.All

> things have been programmed in shrishti(creation).what matter is

> what we choose and the spirit involved in the choice.

> > hence the sarcasm"Dhanam moolam idam jagat".Ther are many

people

> (can be said jyotish way)who may not be having the same

philosophy

> and know the eluding aspects of shristi and reconcile

> > krishnan

>

SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND

RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

> --

----------

>

> a.. Visit your group "" on the web.

>

> b..

>

> c.. Terms

of Service.

>

> --

----------

>

April 13, 2006

The past has ceased to exist and only the recorded

version od the events past survives. This past, is

however, not immutable and does not present the same

appearance always and everywhere.. It looks different

at different times and places, and either an increase

or a decrease in our information changes the picture.

Our view of the relations of past events to each

other, of their relative importance, and of their

significance, changes constantly in consequence of the

constant change of the fugitive present.

History is what the historian sees. The same past

viewed by the same person in different periods is

different.

Yet, the more things change or appear to change, they

remain the same. This is the lesson of jyotish to

me.The reboots are the beginning of a subsequent cycle

of time. I will hesitate to use the word ''new ''

cycle because the cycle is not really new, it is new

only to us who define time in terms of past, present

and future.

The chronological time is maybe just a fraction of

time!

regards

rishi

--- crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote:

> Two cents even though unsolicitated!

>

> If you look at traditional literature -- it would

> seem that it was a

> well mentored and well-proctored reality back then

> with teachers and

> support systems not just available but essential and

> mandatory, some

> would proclaim.

>

> We really do not have accounts of history in terms

> of what actually

> was, few thousands of years ago, though I have the

> gut feeling that

> what we consider as tradition was not just thousands

> of years even

> older than proclaimed (and debated by a few) but

> even older, almost

> as if there was a gene jump at some point. If we

> knew that that

> really happened,despite intermittent seemingly total

> annihilations,

> then the meaning of 'Shashwat' may dawn more

> urgently and

> significantly on our perceptions. To some this may

> smack of mythology

> and mythical. Let them enjoy their moment of glory!

>

> So, history, really ancient history must be

> perceived, recreated

> almost based on no evidence, no documents that

> survived -- that were

> not meant to survive perhaps, because the UNIVERSE,

> the Shashwat

> Universe seems to believe in reboots! Minor reboots

> include natural

> calamities, the latest examples being the Tsunamis

> but the real and

> scary *atlantis* of modern times being NEW ORLEANS.

> One of the

> biggest annihilative challenges thrown in the face

> of humanity in

> recent times. Total wipeout! Will it emerge? Will

> Atlantis reemerge?

> For those who may know, Mardi gras is a big

> tradition of New Orleans

> and Texas took upon it this year while New Orleans

> recuperates

> slowly -- just so that the tradition does not die. I

> translate that

> to say: So that human spirit as we know it does not

> die. And really,

> that is what tradition is about, dear friends. Not

> crumbling books,

> or buildings that are falling to pieces and rituals

> too in some

> settings, but the HUMAN SPIRIT! Bravo New

> Orleanians! Through your

> misery and personal losses you have demonstrated to

> us the power of

> human spirit and that the ATLANTIS EXPERIENCE was

> not a myth.

>

> Atlanteans had much psychic powers and pyramids,

> some say. We as a

> world community have lost Atlantis but this world

> has perhaps

> retained everything that was magnificient and great

> and covetable and

> worthy of retention. True it looks a bit like a war

> zone, like a

> disaster zone but it is all there. All that was

> worthy of living on,

> though some details may have gone missing. Jyotish

> aussi!

>

> The current reality is, like it or not -- coffee/tea

> arriving or not

> in bed -- not structured and mentors and teachers

> though galore and

> arriving in baker's dozen (13 to a dozen for anyone

> not familiar with

> that idiom) are suspect, for the most part. This is

> not my judgment

> but just ask around privately. Lot of people shy

> away from stating

> things like that publicly. Those that do and

> question get beaten up!

>

> Even history and historical myths and glib,

> undocumented,

> unsubstantiated claims and pronouncements about

> history must be

> questioned and challenged. A few individuals a few

> years were

> seriously questioning about the aryan-dravidian

> 'history' that most

> of us were taught and take for granted, taught by

> europeans who had

> the "point of power" in terms of how history was

> written and

> propagated in the last few hundred years (at least

> in India) and even

> how MAPS were made worldwide and regions depicted

> MISPROPORTIONATELY

> (the different projections, for instance, mercator

> and so on).

>

> I am not a scholar in these matters but know enough

> and am alert

> enough to raise doubts so that the wary and scholars

> may wake up,

> unless they are not already. I am really doing their

> job -- why they

> are so complacent? There seem to be too many of them

> around and

> should have really made some changes and stirred the

> place up?

>

> Unless they all agree and endorse that History as we

> were taught in

> schools from say 1930 onwards, at least in India is

> all hunky dory

> and endorsed by the cogniscenti of India! So Aryans

> came from Asia

> minor on horsebacks and drove the dravidians down to

> the south and

> end of story.

>

> I am from the east, genetically, in this lifetime

> anyway, but somehow

> this story sounds too simplistic -- even given

> nothing as basic as

> jyotish. And if one studies the other Aryan

> scriptures, the history

> somehow seems even less plausible. Creators of

> Vedas, Puranas and

> Samhitas, mere horseback riders trying to chase the

> darker races

> south, just for the heck of it?

>

> Seems more like the Europeans invading the native

> americans in their

> land, overthrowing and sequestering their culture

> and mostly 'oral

> tradition' into remote reserves! Or Europeans doing

> the same to

> natives of Africa.

>

> I do not wish to start a riot or more importantly

> hurt any european

> brothers and sisters on this forum but just to bring

> out the

> simplistic and almost unbelievable similarity of

> such assumptions

> that some make in the name of tradition. This is a

> general remark and

> not necessarily something I read on this forum, so

> please keep your

> danders down, friends and attack the premise and not

> the MESSENGER,

> yet again!

>

> RR

>

> , "jyotish"

> <jyotish.bh

> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Sir

> >

> > with due respects and apologies,

> >

> > Should we really have same chapters of gita

> implemented same way

> though the kurukshetra and the rules of game stand

> much different?

> >

> > Need we not ask for the benefits after we put in

> years of sincere

> efforts in the job/business?

> > or leave it for our rivals/colleagues?

> >

> > Will our next generation of IT ..listen to us?

> >

> > do we have today any great gurus/Sai

> Shirdi/Mahapurush that we

> offer all our crop and we are sure we get back

> anything.

> > WE need more acclimatised rules and regulations

> and still gain

> spiritually?

> >

> > regards

> > Rps

> >

> > -

> > surya

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

April 13, 2006

Dear Friends,

Seeking spirtuality by moving with mobiles,in limousine cars and dwelling

house where seasons have no meaning for a modernite.

This recalls me to recollect Rajaneesh acclaimed osho philosophy.people may

agree that this philosophy has meaning and convictions brought out by seers by

making several sacrifices.we all know in those old and golden(?)people have

limited avocations compared to the modernite who needs robbot controlled

places.Throgh click of mouse we wish to link to the past and yet explore value

scinces which were more theoritical in orientation and less acceptance

statistically.Probably East known for their orientation to explore nature

through observations and offering complex formulas through vedic mathematics

have partially succeeded in enticing even the modern man to slip into past

histories and attempt in his own way to find meaning in these days of changed

habitats.

what really striked the ambition of modern man and race through mechanical

life is memorise past histories and find values of those theories.There are less

number populations who were not attached God's feeling and have reverence to

vedic preachings.is it that even today the age old convictions have significance

and difficult to negate them.is it that modern man finds more botherations in

electronic controlled atmosphere.Difficult however to find a logical

solutions.The only plausible answer is however a modern man finds his tagged to

his past actions and acclaim good or bad experiences as prarabdha and willing to

proceed and make strides.

we may disagree to live in through the past teachings however nascent they

are,prepare ourselves to take a leaf out of them.

Today various chapters of geeta are not difficult to understand as the

availabilty of these preaching has become extensive through the advent of

electronic media.what matters however has to bother atleast some of us is self

orientation in choosing what is ideal for him only and ignore all other aspect

of social animal.

here i may take initiative and quote an incident.

I met prof D.P.Tripathi a sanskrit scholar involved in teaching and

counselling through jyotish has to face a more or less a modernite.when i

understand modernite let me also clarify that he is one who can not forsake

comforts and yet offering from a distance his obeissence to idols consecrated in

temples.Intends to be be identified through arya samaj(may not worship different

forms of Gods and idols) and seeks way to come out of the mess in which he was

inolved either through his family or through his profession.Denies for

elaboarate poojas and sanskars as he belongs to different convictions and wants

pariharas to come out of the rut.

My friend though he does not belong to the generation of siddhantis(capable

of interrpreting classicals and advise) yet advocates pariharas to overcome bad

situations.

Accordingly he fixed days to perform shanti poojas and men to recite mantras

suitably for the modernite.My friend more concerned with brevity and feeling

that any money spent on these pariharas is to be limited actual cost of

materials but not willing to offer any gurudaksina for the priests willing to

toil and perform remedies.This divergence is ambiguous as he believes that the

bad days are possible to overcome through mantras and wants to be performed

sincerely

"just so that the tradition does not die" we chase the past whether it is

madri or something else in New orleans ot some where.

This clinging to past is not accidental as it is well orchestrted effort to

find himself more comfortable to life in metros.

Thus programmable present times carry the meaning as cited by RRJI"this world

has perhaps retained everything that was magnificient and great and covetable

and worthy of retention.so waht matters most is how we can be selective to

choose what really meets our needs but not the entire conventional wisdom.

jyotishies of modern times have to wake up and not to teach BHPS of

varahamihira alone but make attempt through eccletical approach of futuristic

studies.

So karma siddhanta whether taught thorugh "Geeta" or old testments have real

control and influence on today's metrosexual.

Finally is it spirtulism has it's own place in society but has also to be

programmed through e-methods.This progress of spirtualish though not holistic

has to deliver goods to benifit the modern man.

Are we ambiguous to advocate "Trisanku" world?what is it we want to convey

when bonds do not hinder spirtual progress>is this new psalm of life which was

not known to wordsworth of earlier genaration

krishnan

crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: