Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Junta! Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the discussions on the group better .. The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs Rashi charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions on the Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly appreciated .. Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart is good as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in a particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate when house related issues are to be judged .. In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) Jupiter in 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male child .. however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and the person involved has a female child for first issue .. In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of Virgo for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house on Bhava chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as expected from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand however, Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet is to deliver .... I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months and realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... but what I am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be given to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as well as making predictions of any accuracy ... Thanks and Regards Surya. Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one uncertainty remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound quite strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your studies that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human experience. That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically precise and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what motivated western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more than a dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical justification. Why so many? One would ask! The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it trisects two reference points and gets three house cusps and then three more. Some of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point and many others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't looked up in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of spherical trigonometry applied to those. Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house mind-set why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet must be full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can rely on books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably out of print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by Michael Erlewine and many many other references. If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the best not satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts in your mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you have already embarked on that path, it seems. Bravo and keep up the good pace! RR , surya vishnu <surya_prakashvi wrote: > > Junta! > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the discussions on the group better .. > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs Rashi charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions on the Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly appreciated .. > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart is good as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in a particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate when house related issues are to be judged .. > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) Jupiter in 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male child .. however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and the person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of Virgo for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house on Bhava chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as expected from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand however, Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet is to deliver .... > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months and realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... but what I am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be given to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as well as making predictions of any accuracy ... > > Thanks and Regards > Surya. > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Tell me, Sir, when we delve in varga charts aren't we again mathematically fine tuning the zodiac particularly in inter-planetary relationship? regards rishi , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one uncertainty > remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. > > Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound quite > strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your studies > that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human experience. > > That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. > > Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically precise > and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what motivated > western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more than a > dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical justification. Why > so many? One would ask! > > The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it trisects two > reference points and gets three house cusps and then three more. Some > of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by > Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point and many > others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't looked up > in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of spherical > trigonometry applied to those. > > Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house mind-set > why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet must be > full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can rely on > books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably out of > print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by Michael > Erlewine and many many other references. > > If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the best not > satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts in your > mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you have > already embarked on that path, it seems. > > Bravo and keep up the good pace! > > RR > > > > , surya vishnu > <surya_prakashvi@> wrote: > > > > Junta! > > > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the > discussions on the group better .. > > > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs Rashi > charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why > predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions on the > Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly > appreciated .. > > > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart is good > as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in a > particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate when house > related issues are to be judged .. > > > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) Jupiter in > 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male child .. > however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and the > person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of Virgo > for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house on Bhava > chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as expected > from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual > perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land > possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand however, > Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet is to > deliver .... > > > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months and > realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... but what I > am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be given > to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as well as > making predictions of any accuracy ... > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Surya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Rishi, If you are asking my personal opinion then it has been simple: The planetary system bears a remarkable resemblance to the structure of an atom as science understands it. As above, so below. The parts must follow the pattern on which the whole is based. The progeny must bear resemblance to the progenitor. However, the truth as I see it may not be everyone's truth -- and I try not to get in their way! Why else would the map be made so complicated and so many paths to the same end-goal. I never question that! After all I am not paying for the petrol! RR , "rishi_2000in" <rishi_2000in wrote: > > Tell me, Sir, when we delve in varga charts aren't we again > mathematically fine tuning the zodiac particularly in inter- planetary > relationship? > regards > rishi > > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one uncertainty > > remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. > > > > Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound quite > > strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your studies > > that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human experience. > > > > That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. > > > > Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically precise > > and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what > motivated > > western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more than a > > dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical justification. > Why > > so many? One would ask! > > > > The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it trisects > two > > reference points and gets three house cusps and then three more. > Some > > of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by > > Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point and many > > others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't looked > up > > in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of spherical > > trigonometry applied to those. > > > > Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house mind- set > > why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet must be > > full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can rely > on > > books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably out of > > print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by Michael > > Erlewine and many many other references. > > > > If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the best > not > > satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts in > your > > mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you have > > already embarked on that path, it seems. > > > > Bravo and keep up the good pace! > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , surya vishnu > > <surya_prakashvi@> wrote: > > > > > > Junta! > > > > > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the > > discussions on the group better .. > > > > > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs Rashi > > charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why > > predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions on > the > > Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > > > > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly > > appreciated .. > > > > > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart is good > > as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in a > > particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate when > house > > related issues are to be judged .. > > > > > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) Jupiter in > > 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male child .. > > however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and the > > person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > > > > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of Virgo > > for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house on > Bhava > > chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as > expected > > from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual > > perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land > > possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand however, > > Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet is to > > deliver .... > > > > > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months and > > realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... but what > I > > am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be given > > to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as well as > > making predictions of any accuracy ... > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Surya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 RRji, And then the converse should also hold good, if in a part, letus say the navamsha, a 180 degree difference exists it can get transposed to a 20 degree difference in the rashi chart, it actually happens in calculations. Logically, then the interpretations of a seventh house relationship in navamsh should also be an interpretation for the 20/60/100/140/180/220/260/300/340 in the rashi chart? Your personal opinion sought, regards rishi , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Rishi, > > If you are asking my personal opinion then it has been simple: The > planetary system bears a remarkable resemblance to the structure of > an atom as science understands it. As above, so below. The parts must > follow the pattern on which the whole is based. The progeny must bear > resemblance to the progenitor. > > However, the truth as I see it may not be everyone's truth -- and I > try not to get in their way! Why else would the map be made so > complicated and so many paths to the same end-goal. I never question > that! After all I am not paying for the petrol! > > RR > > , "rishi_2000in" > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > Tell me, Sir, when we delve in varga charts aren't we again > > mathematically fine tuning the zodiac particularly in inter- > planetary > > relationship? > > regards > > rishi > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one > uncertainty > > > remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. > > > > > > Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound > quite > > > strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your > studies > > > that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human > experience. > > > > > > That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. > > > > > > Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically > precise > > > and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what > > motivated > > > western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more than a > > > dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical justification. > > Why > > > so many? One would ask! > > > > > > The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it trisects > > two > > > reference points and gets three house cusps and then three more. > > Some > > > of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by > > > Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point and > many > > > others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't > looked > > up > > > in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of spherical > > > trigonometry applied to those. > > > > > > Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house mind- > set > > > why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet must be > > > full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can > rely > > on > > > books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably out > of > > > print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by > Michael > > > Erlewine and many many other references. > > > > > > If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the best > > not > > > satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts in > > your > > > mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you have > > > already embarked on that path, it seems. > > > > > > Bravo and keep up the good pace! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , surya vishnu > > > <surya_prakashvi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Junta! > > > > > > > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the > > > discussions on the group better .. > > > > > > > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs Rashi > > > charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why > > > predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions on > > the > > > Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > > > > > > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly > > > appreciated .. > > > > > > > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart is > good > > > as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in a > > > particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate when > > house > > > related issues are to be judged .. > > > > > > > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) Jupiter > in > > > 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male > child .. > > > however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and the > > > person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > > > > > > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of > Virgo > > > for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house on > > Bhava > > > chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as > > expected > > > from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual > > > perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land > > > possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand however, > > > Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet is to > > > deliver .... > > > > > > > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months and > > > realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... but > what > > I > > > am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be > given > > > to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as well > as > > > making predictions of any accuracy ... > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Surya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Perhaps, Rishi, but the clincher would in the end must be -- But, does it? The original poster (Surya) has discovered that in his experience bhava works better than rashi (or something like that). I have no problem with his personally experience position in that matter. Do you? :-) RR , "rishi_2000in" <rishi_2000in wrote: > > RRji, > And then the converse should also hold good, if in a part, letus say > the navamsha, a 180 degree difference exists it can get transposed > to a 20 degree difference in the rashi chart, it actually happens in > calculations. > Logically, then the interpretations of a seventh house relationship > in navamsh should also be an interpretation for the > 20/60/100/140/180/220/260/300/340 in the rashi chart? > Your personal opinion sought, > regards > rishi > > > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Rishi, > > > > If you are asking my personal opinion then it has been simple: The > > planetary system bears a remarkable resemblance to the structure of > > an atom as science understands it. As above, so below. The parts > must > > follow the pattern on which the whole is based. The progeny must > bear > > resemblance to the progenitor. > > > > However, the truth as I see it may not be everyone's truth -- and I > > try not to get in their way! Why else would the map be made so > > complicated and so many paths to the same end-goal. I never > question > > that! After all I am not paying for the petrol! > > > > RR > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > Tell me, Sir, when we delve in varga charts aren't we again > > > mathematically fine tuning the zodiac particularly in inter- > > planetary > > > relationship? > > > regards > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one > > uncertainty > > > > remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. > > > > > > > > Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound > > quite > > > > strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your > > studies > > > > that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human > > experience. > > > > > > > > That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. > > > > > > > > Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically > > precise > > > > and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what > > > motivated > > > > western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more than > a > > > > dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical > justification. > > > Why > > > > so many? One would ask! > > > > > > > > The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it > trisects > > > two > > > > reference points and gets three house cusps and then three > more. > > > Some > > > > of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by > > > > Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point and > > many > > > > others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't > > looked > > > up > > > > in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of > spherical > > > > trigonometry applied to those. > > > > > > > > Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house mind- > > set > > > > why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet must > be > > > > full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can > > rely > > > on > > > > books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably out > > of > > > > print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by > > Michael > > > > Erlewine and many many other references. > > > > > > > > If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the > best > > > not > > > > satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts in > > > your > > > > mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you > have > > > > already embarked on that path, it seems. > > > > > > > > Bravo and keep up the good pace! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , surya vishnu > > > > <surya_prakashvi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Junta! > > > > > > > > > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the > > > > discussions on the group better .. > > > > > > > > > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs > Rashi > > > > charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why > > > > predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions > on > > > the > > > > Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly > > > > appreciated .. > > > > > > > > > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart is > > good > > > > as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in a > > > > particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate when > > > house > > > > related issues are to be judged .. > > > > > > > > > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) > Jupiter > > in > > > > 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male > > child .. > > > > however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and > the > > > > person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > > > > > > > > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of > > Virgo > > > > for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house on > > > Bhava > > > > chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as > > > expected > > > > from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual > > > > perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land > > > > possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand > however, > > > > Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet is > to > > > > deliver .... > > > > > > > > > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months > and > > > > realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... but > > what > > > I > > > > am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be > > given > > > > to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as well > > as > > > > making predictions of any accuracy ... > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Surya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > calls. > > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Actually, I digressed, I am glad that Surya speaks from his experiences. Your reply about spherical trigonometry made me look at another point which has been there in the back of my mind. I am, however, sadly lacking in personally experienced positions, just a beginner in this ocean of astrology. Doesn't stop me from imagining fancy conceptual designs! Thanks for tolerating the kids on the block regards rishi br>, "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Perhaps, Rishi, but the clincher would in the end must be -- But, > does it? > > The original poster (Surya) has discovered that in his experience > bhava works better than rashi (or something like that). I have no > problem with his personally experience position in that matter. Do > you? :-) > > RR > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > rishi_2000in@ wrote: > > > > RRji, > > And then the converse should also hold good, if in a part, letus > say > > the navamsha, a 180 degree difference exists it can get transposed > > to a 20 degree difference in the rashi chart, it actually happens > in > > calculations. > > Logically, then the interpretations of a seventh house relationship > > in navamsh should also be an interpretation for the > > 20/60/100/140/180/220/260/300/340 in the rashi chart? > > Your personal opinion sought, > > regards > > rishi > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Rishi, > > > > > > If you are asking my personal opinion then it has been simple: > The > > > planetary system bears a remarkable resemblance to the structure > of > > > an atom as science understands it. As above, so below. The parts > > must > > > follow the pattern on which the whole is based. The progeny must > > bear > > > resemblance to the progenitor. > > > > > > However, the truth as I see it may not be everyone's truth -- and > I > > > try not to get in their way! Why else would the map be made so > > > complicated and so many paths to the same end-goal. I never > > question > > > that! After all I am not paying for the petrol! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > > <rishi_2000in@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tell me, Sir, when we delve in varga charts aren't we again > > > > mathematically fine tuning the zodiac particularly in inter- > > > planetary > > > > relationship? > > > > regards > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one > > > uncertainty > > > > > remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound > > > quite > > > > > strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your > > > studies > > > > > that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. > > > > > > > > > > Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically > > > precise > > > > > and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what > > > > motivated > > > > > western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more > than > > a > > > > > dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical > > justification. > > > > Why > > > > > so many? One would ask! > > > > > > > > > > The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it > > trisects > > > > two > > > > > reference points and gets three house cusps and then three > > more. > > > > Some > > > > > of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by > > > > > Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point > and > > > many > > > > > others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't > > > looked > > > > up > > > > > in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of > > spherical > > > > > trigonometry applied to those. > > > > > > > > > > Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house > mind- > > > set > > > > > why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet > must > > be > > > > > full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can > > > rely > > > > on > > > > > books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably > out > > > of > > > > > print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by > > > Michael > > > > > Erlewine and many many other references. > > > > > > > > > > If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the > > best > > > > not > > > > > satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts > in > > > > your > > > > > mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you > > have > > > > > already embarked on that path, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > Bravo and keep up the good pace! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , surya vishnu > > > > > <surya_prakashvi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Junta! > > > > > > > > > > > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the > > > > > discussions on the group better .. > > > > > > > > > > > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs > > Rashi > > > > > charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why > > > > > predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions > > on > > > > the > > > > > Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly > > > > > appreciated .. > > > > > > > > > > > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart > is > > > good > > > > > as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in > a > > > > > particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate > when > > > > house > > > > > related issues are to be judged .. > > > > > > > > > > > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) > > Jupiter > > > in > > > > > 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male > > > child .. > > > > > however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and > > the > > > > > person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of > > > Virgo > > > > > for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house > on > > > > Bhava > > > > > chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as > > > > expected > > > > > from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual > > > > > perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land > > > > > possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand > > however, > > > > > Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet > is > > to > > > > > deliver .... > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months > > and > > > > > realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... > but > > > what > > > > I > > > > > am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be > > > given > > > > > to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as > well > > > as > > > > > making predictions of any accuracy ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Surya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > > calls. > > > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Hi, I am also a student following your discussions about bhav all day. If you allow me to pose a new question... I have come across just recently a new ayamansa proposed by Tarun Chopra who claims with some proof that his ayamansa is most accurate compared to the one's in use in present time. Everyone knows, that accurate predictions depends on precise horoscope and dasa calculations. If you investigate, you will find that Chopra's ayamansa produces significantly different charts and dasas. Has anyone on this list investigated Tarun Chopra's proposal ? With regards, Pratap rishi_2000in <rishi_2000in wrote: Actually, I digressed, I am glad that Surya speaks from his experiences. Your reply about spherical trigonometry made me look at another point which has been there in the back of my mind. I am, however, sadly lacking in personally experienced positions, just a beginner in this ocean of astrology. Doesn't stop me from imagining fancy conceptual designs! Thanks for tolerating the kids on the block regards rishi br>, "crystal pages" wrote: > > Perhaps, Rishi, but the clincher would in the end must be -- But, > does it? > > The original poster (Surya) has discovered that in his experience > bhava works better than rashi (or something like that). I have no > problem with his personally experience position in that matter. Do > you? :-) > > RR > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > rishi_2000in@ wrote: > > > > RRji, > > And then the converse should also hold good, if in a part, letus > say > > the navamsha, a 180 degree difference exists it can get transposed > > to a 20 degree difference in the rashi chart, it actually happens > in > > calculations. > > Logically, then the interpretations of a seventh house relationship > > in navamsh should also be an interpretation for the > > 20/60/100/140/180/220/260/300/340 in the rashi chart? > > Your personal opinion sought, > > regards > > rishi > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > wrote: > > > > > > Rishi, > > > > > > If you are asking my personal opinion then it has been simple: > The > > > planetary system bears a remarkable resemblance to the structure > of > > > an atom as science understands it. As above, so below. The parts > > must > > > follow the pattern on which the whole is based. The progeny must > > bear > > > resemblance to the progenitor. > > > > > > However, the truth as I see it may not be everyone's truth -- and > I > > > try not to get in their way! Why else would the map be made so > > > complicated and so many paths to the same end-goal. I never > > question > > > that! After all I am not paying for the petrol! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Tell me, Sir, when we delve in varga charts aren't we again > > > > mathematically fine tuning the zodiac particularly in inter- > > > planetary > > > > relationship? > > > > regards > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one > > > uncertainty > > > > > remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound > > > quite > > > > > strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your > > > studies > > > > > that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. > > > > > > > > > > Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically > > > precise > > > > > and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what > > > > motivated > > > > > western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more > than > > a > > > > > dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical > > justification. > > > > Why > > > > > so many? One would ask! > > > > > > > > > > The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it > > trisects > > > > two > > > > > reference points and gets three house cusps and then three > > more. > > > > Some > > > > > of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by > > > > > Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point > and > > > many > > > > > others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't > > > looked > > > > up > > > > > in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of > > spherical > > > > > trigonometry applied to those. > > > > > > > > > > Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house > mind- > > > set > > > > > why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet > must > > be > > > > > full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can > > > rely > > > > on > > > > > books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably > out > > > of > > > > > print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by > > > Michael > > > > > Erlewine and many many other references. > > > > > > > > > > If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the > > best > > > > not > > > > > satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts > in > > > > your > > > > > mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you > > have > > > > > already embarked on that path, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > Bravo and keep up the good pace! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , surya vishnu > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Junta! > > > > > > > > > > > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the > > > > > discussions on the group better .. > > > > > > > > > > > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs > > Rashi > > > > > charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why > > > > > predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions > > on > > > > the > > > > > Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly > > > > > appreciated .. > > > > > > > > > > > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart > is > > > good > > > > > as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in > a > > > > > particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate > when > > > > house > > > > > related issues are to be judged .. > > > > > > > > > > > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) > > Jupiter > > > in > > > > > 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male > > > child .. > > > > > however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and > > the > > > > > person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of > > > Virgo > > > > > for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house > on > > > > Bhava > > > > > chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as > > > > expected > > > > > from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual > > > > > perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land > > > > > possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand > > however, > > > > > Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet > is > > to > > > > > deliver .... > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months > > and > > > > > realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... > but > > > what > > > > I > > > > > am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be > > > given > > > > > to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as > well > > > as > > > > > making predictions of any accuracy ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Surya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > > calls. > > > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Pratap, Ayanamsha has been a contentious issue amongst most learned of the astrologers too.Mostly , the ayanamsha named as Chitrapaksha or Lahiri ayanamsha is followed which was approved by the Indian Government as a part of Rashtriya Panchang. There are several other ayanamshas too including the Raman ayanamsha quite commonly used. Most of these are within plus minus 3 degress of the Lahiri value. Tarun Chopra claims an ayanamsa 12 degrees away from Lahiri. It is again a personal experience of his. regards rishi , Pratap Kaneria <pkaneria wrote: > > Hi, > > I am also a student following your discussions about bhav all day. If you allow me to pose a new question... > > I have come across just recently a new ayamansa proposed by Tarun Chopra who claims with some proof that his ayamansa is most accurate compared to the one's in use in present time. Everyone knows, that accurate predictions depends on precise horoscope and dasa calculations. If you investigate, you will find that Chopra's ayamansa produces significantly different charts and dasas. > > Has anyone on this list investigated Tarun Chopra's proposal ? > > With regards, > > Pratap > > rishi_2000in <rishi_2000in wrote: > Actually, I digressed, I am glad that Surya speaks from his experiences. > Your reply about spherical trigonometry made me look at another point > which has been there in the back of my mind. I am, however, sadly > lacking in personally experienced positions, just a beginner in this > ocean of astrology. Doesn't stop me from imagining fancy conceptual > designs! Thanks for tolerating the kids on the block regards rishi > br>, "crystal pages" > wrote: > > > > Perhaps, Rishi, but the clincher would in the end must be -- But, > > does it? > > > > The original poster (Surya) has discovered that in his experience > > bhava works better than rashi (or something like that). I have no > > problem with his personally experience position in that matter. Do > > you? :-) > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > rishi_2000in@ wrote: > > > > > > RRji, > > > And then the converse should also hold good, if in a part, letus > > say > > > the navamsha, a 180 degree difference exists it can get transposed > > > to a 20 degree difference in the rashi chart, it actually happens > > in > > > calculations. > > > Logically, then the interpretations of a seventh house relationship > > > in navamsh should also be an interpretation for the > > > 20/60/100/140/180/220/260/300/340 in the rashi chart? > > > Your personal opinion sought, > > > regards > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Rishi, > > > > > > > > If you are asking my personal opinion then it has been simple: > > The > > > > planetary system bears a remarkable resemblance to the structure > > of > > > > an atom as science understands it. As above, so below. The parts > > > must > > > > follow the pattern on which the whole is based. The progeny must > > > bear > > > > resemblance to the progenitor. > > > > > > > > However, the truth as I see it may not be everyone's truth -- and > > I > > > > try not to get in their way! Why else would the map be made so > > > > complicated and so many paths to the same end-goal. I never > > > question > > > > that! After all I am not paying for the petrol! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "rishi_2000in" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tell me, Sir, when we delve in varga charts aren't we again > > > > > mathematically fine tuning the zodiac particularly in inter- > > > > planetary > > > > > relationship? > > > > > regards > > > > > rishi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one > > > > uncertainty > > > > > > remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound > > > > quite > > > > > > strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your > > > > studies > > > > > > that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically > > > > precise > > > > > > and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what > > > > > motivated > > > > > > western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more > > than > > > a > > > > > > dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical > > > justification. > > > > > Why > > > > > > so many? One would ask! > > > > > > > > > > > > The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it > > > trisects > > > > > two > > > > > > reference points and gets three house cusps and then three > > > more. > > > > > Some > > > > > > of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by > > > > > > Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point > > and > > > > many > > > > > > others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't > > > > looked > > > > > up > > > > > > in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of > > > spherical > > > > > > trigonometry applied to those. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house > > mind- > > > > set > > > > > > why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet > > must > > > be > > > > > > full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can > > > > rely > > > > > on > > > > > > books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably > > out > > > > of > > > > > > print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by > > > > Michael > > > > > > Erlewine and many many other references. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the > > > best > > > > > not > > > > > > satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts > > in > > > > > your > > > > > > mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you > > > have > > > > > > already embarked on that path, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bravo and keep up the good pace! > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , surya vishnu > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Junta! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the > > > > > > discussions on the group better .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs > > > Rashi > > > > > > charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why > > > > > > predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly > > > > > > appreciated .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart > > is > > > > good > > > > > > as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in > > a > > > > > > particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate > > when > > > > > house > > > > > > related issues are to be judged .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) > > > Jupiter > > > > in > > > > > > 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male > > > > child .. > > > > > > however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and > > > the > > > > > > person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of > > > > Virgo > > > > > > for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house > > on > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as > > > > > expected > > > > > > from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual > > > > > > perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land > > > > > > possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand > > > however, > > > > > > Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet > > is > > > to > > > > > > deliver .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months > > > and > > > > > > realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... > > but > > > > what > > > > > I > > > > > > am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be > > > > given > > > > > > to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as > > well > > > > as > > > > > > making predictions of any accuracy ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > Surya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone > > > calls. > > > > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > Links > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Dear RR, The last stop was in the sense that that the last stop I made was with Bhava and Other charts... I have miles to saunter along before I start getting confused by really important issues I tend to agree with your philosophy that only extensive case study can hold any meaning to our learning .. and considering how difficult it is to gather data and then verify details (sometimes when people are not willing to part with it) I am not sure how to proceed forward ... hence I was hoping to benefit from any of your own experinces .. Thanks! Surya. crystal pages <jyotish_vani wrote: Congratulations! You are at the last stop and only one uncertainty remains, unless I misunderstood what you were saying. Actually, assuming that I did not (misunderstand), you sound quite strongly positive that you have indeed experienced in your studies that bhava chart seems to yield a truer picture of human experience. That is wonderful because now you are on firmer grounds. Bhava represents dividing the zodiac in a more geotopically precise and geotopically relevant perspective. This is exactly what motivated western/tropical astrologers to fine-tune and devise more than a dozen unequal divisions, each with a mathematical justification. Why so many? One would ask! The sripati paddhati is an averaging system, because it trisects two reference points and gets three house cusps and then three more. Some of the other unequal divisions (e.g., Placidius used by Krishnamurthi, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Zenith, East Point and many others that I used to remember in my young days but haven't looked up in a few decades now) have more rigorous principles of spherical trigonometry applied to those. Once you have broken beyond the whole sign and equal house mind-set why stop at Sripati and not forge ahead further? Internet must be full of details about how to calculate those etc. and you can rely on books by Meeus and Peter Duffett-Smith and the now probably out of print manual of mathematical programming for astrologers by Michael Erlewine and many many other references. If you ask, you will get umpteen opinions, which will at the best not satisfy you, and at the worst, confuse you and create doubts in your mind. Doing and experiencing it directly is the way and you have already embarked on that path, it seems. Bravo and keep up the good pace! RR , surya vishnu <surya_prakashvi wrote: > > Junta! > > Been working on my astrology skills on the to follow the discussions on the group better .. > > The last stop being the significance of Bhava chart Vs Rashi charts ... a thought occured to me that one of the reason why predictions go wrong is probably because the planet positions on the Bhava chart are different from the ones on Rashi charts? > > Anyone who can throw light on this subject will be warmly appreciated .. > > Per what I could understand, I realise that Rashi chart is good as long as u want to understand hte placement of a planet in a particular Rashi ... however Bhava chart is more accurate when house related issues are to be judged .. > > In particular cases that I have seen (not extensive) Jupiter in 5th house for Virgo ascendant was expected to give a male child .. however in Bhava chart Jupiter slipped back to 4th house and the person involved has a female child for first issue .. > > In my own case, I have an exhalted Rahu in 11th house of Virgo for scorpio ascendant ... however Rahu shifts to 12th house on Bhava chart .. and Moon/Rahu sub dasa has been a mixed baggage as expected from Rahu in 12th house, it has however given me my spiritual perceptor (moon being 9th lord in 2nd) and fairly decent land possessions .. so the exhaltation of Rahu seems to stand however, Bhava chart seems to be more accurate as to what the planet is to deliver .... > > I have seen quite a few horoscopes in hte last few months and realised that bhava is very important for predictions .... but what I am struggling ot understand is the amount of importance to be given to each of these charts in both understanding the chart as well as making predictions of any accuracy ... > > Thanks and Regards > Surya. > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. Vedic astrology Astrology chart Astrology software Vedic astrology software Visit your group "" on the web. Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.