Ketu ( the comet ! not the South Node )

[Guest guest]

Hello everybody :-)

I'm new to the list and a very beginner to vedic astro, so excuse me if this

question is too simple. I was told that Ketu in Kalachakra is a comet. while in

the Hindu system Ketu is the name for the south node planet. Here Kalachakra

refers to buddhist sources. What do you know about this 10th planet , or comet

? its influence ? itsWestern astrology equivalent ?

"Around Mt. Meru circle the 10 planets; Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars,

Jupiter, Saturn, Rahu (North node of the moon), Kalagni (South node of the

moon) and Ketu (a comet). "

Astrologically yours

Nico

[Guest guest]

JAYA JAGANNATHA!

 

Dear Nico,

 

Namaste.

 

 

Hello everybody :-)

I'm new to the list and a very beginner to vedic astro, so excuse me if this

question is too simple. I was told that Ketu in Kalachakra is a comet. while in

the Hindu system Ketu is the name for the south node planet. Here Kalachakra

refers to buddhist sources. What do you know about this 10th planet , or comet

? its influence ? itsWestern astrology equivalent ?

I have heard of a shadowy planet (Upagraha) called Upaketu, which is described

by Mantreshwara in Phala Deepika as something similar to a comet. Of course

there's more Upagrahas, but they dont move in circles like the Grahas, and they

are not visible to eyes. Please check Phala Deepika and Sarwartha Cintamani for

details.

"Around Mt. Meru circle the 10 planets; Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars,

Jupiter, Saturn, Rahu (North node of the moon), Kalagni (South node of the

moon) and Ketu (a comet). "

Where is this quote from? I cant really fit it into the statements of Srimad

Bhagavatam, as there's only seven Dvipas mentioned according to the seven

Grahas, and even Rahu and Ketu (the nodes) are not given separate tracks, as

they are not physical bodies as the rest. Maybe this statement is just an

interpolation by some westerners to try to link it with the wester 10/planet

model?

 

Yours,

 

Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer <gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net> Phone:

+36-309-140-839 Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET

 

 

Astrologically yours

NicoArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

 

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

Ketu is the dead part of a deamon killed by lord vishnu. The head

part is Rahu. As Rahu consumed the Amrut, he became powerful and

active, ketu is the dead part floating in air. Rahu and Ketu try to

eat the sun and the moon, that's why they are afraid of these malafic

planets, especially the moon is very much afraid.

 

Rahu represents the material part and Ketu the spiritual.

 

I am not aware of the statement u gave, but this is what i think

about Ketu.

 

Take care, bye.

[Guest guest]

Namasthe.

 

This is PuraaNa story, yes, really a story in connection to

cosmic creation (samudra manthanam) for the child in each of

us. Scientific import has to be extracted from it but this

by itself is not Jyotisha science. Jyotisha for eons has

seen Raahu and Ketu as the nodal POINTS in lunar path. Let

us not mix it up.

 

All the PuraaNa stories (such as Chandra eloping with Taara,

begetting Budha, etc.) are riddles of celestial events. We

need to wear our scientific hat to figure them out.

 

Namasthe,

-tik

 

Amar wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> Ketu is the dead part of a deamon killed by lord vishnu. The head

> part is Rahu. As Rahu consumed the Amrut, he became powerful and

> active, ketu is the dead part floating in air. Rahu and Ketu try to

> eat the sun and the moon, that's why they are afraid of these malafic

> planets, especially the moon is very much afraid.

>

> Rahu represents the material part and Ketu the spiritual.

>

> I am not aware of the statement u gave, but this is what i think

> about Ketu.

>

> Take care, bye.

[Guest guest]

Dear Gauranga Das

Namaste.

 

Thank you for you reply, I will check again using your comments.

I forgot to mention that I was talking about tibetan Kalachakra

Attached is the article where I saw this statement.

 

Yours

 

Nicolas

 

Hello everybody :-)

I'm new to the list and a very beginner to vedic astro, so excuse me if this

question is too simple. I was told that Ketu in Kalachakra is a comet. while in

the Hindu system Ketu is the name for the south node planet. Here Kalachakra

refers to buddhist sources. What do you know about this 10th planet , or comet

? its influence ? itsWestern astrology equivalent ?

I have heard of a shadowy planet (Upagraha) called Upaketu, which is described

by Mantreshwara in Phala Deepika as something similar to a comet. Of course

there's more Upagrahas, but they dont move in circles like the Grahas, and they

are not visible to eyes. Please check Phala Deepika and Sarwartha Cintamani for

details.

"Around Mt. Meru circle the 10 planets; Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars,

Jupiter, Saturn, Rahu (North node of the moon), Kalagni (South node of the

moon) and Ketu (a comet). "

Where is this quote from? I cant really fit it into the statements of Srimad

Bhagavatam, as there's only seven Dvipas mentioned according to the seven

Grahas, and even Rahu and Ketu (the nodes) are not given separate tracks, as

they are not physical bodies as the rest. Maybe this statement is just an

interpolation by some westerners to try to link it with the wester 10/planet

model?

 

Yours,

 

Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer <gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net> Phone:

+36-309-140-839 Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET

 

 

Astrologically yours

NicoArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

 

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Outer Kalachakra - The Universe

Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:18:48 -0300

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HomePrevious Page^Top of Page

Namo Kalachakraya ! Hail to Kalachakra OUTER KALACHAKRA - The Universe

CONTENTSTimeThe Universe Bibliography

TIME

As can be expected, Kalachakra and the mandala contain many references to time.

There are specific deities for each of the (rounded-off) 360 days of the year,

for every half month etc. The year can be divided in six seasons (spring, hot

season, monsoon, fall [harvest], early winter and late winter; 12 months, or 24

periods of waxing and waning moon. These periods can be found in the symbolism

of the main figure of Kalachakra: 6 sets of arms, 12 arms and 24 is made up of

all upper and lower arms. The 360 days are symbolised by the 3 parts of every

one of the 120 fingers etc.

Within the Kalachakra system, also an extensive explanation on making a calendar

exists. General information on the moon- or sidereal calendar can be found on

the Magee site.)

Note that both Kalachakra tantra and Hindu systems refer to terms like

'kali-yuga', but in the Kalachakra these refer to much shorter periods. In the

Kalachakra it is said that the Buddha's teachings will last 2 kali-yugas. The

first kali-yuga is up to the war in 2424, the second is the "Golden Age", until

5,104 after the Buddha. In other descriptions, it is described as 5,000 years.

(#1)

THE UNIVERSE The "mandala of the universe", or the symbolic representation of

the universe is based upon the elements. These are represented as elemental

discs. At the bottom is air, above it is fire, then water and last comes earth.

Similar to the arisal of the elements in a "new" universe. On top of this come

Mount Meru, the mountains, oceans and continents. The sizes of the elemental

mandalas are given in "yojanas". Yojanas are units of length related to body

size. {Similar to "feet" in English.} One cubit is the length from elbow to

finger tip, 4 cubits are an armspan (which equals the length of the body), 500

armspans is one krosha, 8 krosha is one yojana (ancient mile). Taking an

armspan as roughly 2 meters, 1 yojana is 8 kilometres (5 miles). There are 6

rings of mountains and oceans around Mt. Meru, around this comes the 'Greater

Southern Continent' as a ring consisting of 12 parts. The other continents are

portions of this 'Greater Jambudvipa'. There are 4 major portions, with 2

smaller on either side. It looks like a doughnut cut into 12 pieces. (These

continents also refer to the 12 months and 12 signs of the zodiac). We live on

the "Smaller Jambudvipa", one of the divisions of the "Greater Jambudvipa". The

"Great Jambudvipa" is the land of karma, and the continents within this ring are

the "Lands of Luxury" (inhabitants experience no results of their karma in their

life there and all wealth is shared). In Greater Jambudvipa, karma can be

experienced in this lifetime, making inhabitants more receptive for Dharma

practice, according to the Kalachakra one can practice Dharma in all 4

continents and 8 subcontinents. {Note the beautiful 3-dimensional pictures of

the mandala in #3, which not only show the orbits of the planets, the elemental

rings, but even the form and formless realms. Also a clear reference is given to

the similarities between the universe in Kalachakra, the mandala palace and the

human body.} Mount Meru is possibly blue (Ven. Kirti Tsenshab Rinpoche) or its'

four sides have the same colours as the mandala (#4 and #1). Around Mt. Meru

circle the 10 planets; Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Rahu

(North node of the moon), Kalagni (South node of the moon) and Ketu (a comet).

Joseph Campbell writes (in #5):

'The ultimate background of both the Oriental and the Occidental storied heavens

and pits of hell, with the world mountain between, is the Mesopotamian concept

of the architecture of the universe, where there is an axial cosmic mountain

symbolised by the ziggurat oriented with its sides to the quarters, above

which, in the highest heaven, sits a supreme god, An, amidst a brilliant

company of deities. ... And the seven heavens of the planets revolved below, in

stages, which were represented by seven terraced stories on the mountainside,

while beneath the earth, in the abyss, the terrible goddess Ereshkigal, of the

Land of No Return, was approached through the seven gates... The shape of the

universe according to the Jains is of a colossal human form, usually female,

with the earth plane at the level of the waist; seven hells beneath, in the

pelvic area, legs and feet; fourteen celestial stories above, in the chest

cavity and shoulders, neck and head; while soaring above, in the shape of an

umbrella of luminous white gold, is a place of unalloyed perfection, to which

the soul ascends when the last least taint of a trace even of heavenly

attachment has been burnt away through the practice of yoga.... No one cares at

all whether such a vision, competent to lure the mind and heart away from earth,

corresponds, as science, to earthly fact. The judgement of its truth and value

is pragmatic: if it works (upon the psyche), it is true enough.'

David Reigle notes (in #6):

'The hells {taught in the Kalachakra} bear no resemblance to the hells taught in

standard Buddhist sources, such as Abhidharmakosa. Neither do they correspond to

those taught in standard Hindu sources .... But they do correspond to those

taught in standard Jaina sources.'

The Kalagni disc represents the fire at the end of the aeon. In the Sakya

tradition, Rahu and Kalagni are separate; in the Gelugpa tradition, they are

two aspects of the same "dragon" (like in Chinese and Greek astronomy). Kalagni

is the head of the dragon, causing solar eclipses, and Rahu is the tail, causing

lunar eclipses. In Western astronomy, Rahu and Kalagni are called the north and

south nodes of the moon. When the sun and the moon are at these positions, an

eclipse occurs. Ketu in Kalachakra is a comet. Unfortunately, in the Hindu

system Ketu is the name for the south node planet. Keith Dowman notes (in #7):

'Rahu was an asura who disguised himself as a god and joined the line of gods

waiting to receive a portion of nectar after the great churning of the ocean.

The Sun and Moon revealed the fraud to Vishnu who cut off the demon's head; but

immortal he lives in the sky, intermittently wreaking vengeance on the sun and

moon by swallowing them. He is a dragon's head, the ascending node of the moon,

the eighth planet, an important luminary in the demonic sky.'

Ven. Kirti Tsenshab noted (#8):

'The elements are described in the Kalachakra system very much like in the Vedic

texts of ancient India, having 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 qualities. Many of the

Kalachakra practitioners were trainees in non-Buddhist systems, and there is a

sharing of names and categories that one cannot find in other Buddhist schools.

Still, there is much similar terminology. This helps people of other systems to

feel attracted to this practice. Different disciples require different

Dharmas... The sizes of the elemental mandalas and the explanation of the

universe is different from the Abidharma literature. However, one should

remember that this presentation is written to suit specific individuals, and we

should not see the teachings as wrong.'

Alex Berzin mentioned along the same lines (#1):

'In Abidharma, the main purpose is to develop wisdom.... But the Kalachakra

description {of the universe} is for a different purpose. The purpose here is

to have a description of the universe which is similar to the description of

the human body, so that you have the correlation of the macrocosm and the

microcosm. Then you can do a system of meditation similar to that... So, for

instance, the proportions of the universe are the same as the proportions of

the body, and they are the same as the proportions of the mandala.... And

neither of these two descriptions, neither Abidharma nor Kalachakra are for the

purpose of of being able to build a rocket to the moon. The Buddha never claimed

they were, did he? So there is no contradiction with the whole Western

scientific description of the universe.'

^Top of Page

BIBLIOGRAPHY #1: Introduction to Kalachakra, commentary by Dr. Alex Berzin June

28 - 30, 1985 at Institut Vajrayogini, France#2: Commentary given by Dr. Alex

Berzin, Dharamsala 1992 #3: Das Mandala by Martin Brauen (Dumont 1992)

#4: Commentary given by Dr. Alex Berzin, Maitreya Institute Holland 1984 #5:

Oriental Mythology by Joseph Campbell, Penguin 1962 #6: Kalacakra Sadhana and

Social Responsibility, David Reigle, Spirit of the Sun Publications 1996. #7:

Masters of Mahamudra by Keith Dowman, Suny 1985. (See nrs. 22, 24, 27, 46, 52,

54, 77)#8: Commentary given by Kirti Tsenshab Rinpoche December 1989, Bodh Gaya

India

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