Guest guest Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 Alex.... If you ever get a chance....read the Turner Foundation Winner...a book Called 'Ishmael' by Daniel Quinn who has written some VERY interesting books about a certain mentality that has developed in man in the last 10,000 years. The general idea behind the Old Testament is that there WAS no history of Man before a certain 'time'....roughly the idea being before 'known' accepted recorded history (before the 10,000 year mark). Man, in his arrogance, shaped the old Testament with statements such as God giving man 'dominion' over the Earth/animals...etc....as if we ARE superior and the world was made for US exclusively to use and abuse at will. Like who wrote this anyway? The idea that we could have existed for years and years prior to an accepted orthodox 'beginning' was not even allowed to be thought about for centuries. It's still pooh poohed despite evidence to the contrary. There is only ONE God and his name is Yahweh (yeah right). And since God created man in his own image (white) then nothing else is acceptable....everyone else (the majority of the world) is outside the box and are heretics and infidels <grin>. Being a student of history...a lover of philosophy, psychology, astrology, all faces/forms of spirit, mythology...etc....this book is WELL written in simple language that puts forth a theory. He basically states that there are two groups of people...the Leavers and the Takers. Leavers are natural 'tribal' (community oriented...what's good for the community/culture) people while Takers feel that there is only ONE right way for ALL and devised a plan to enslave the world and turn it into one color, one religion...one way...by 'locking up the food' and making people 'work' for it when in ancient times...no one 'owned' the capacity to find and generate their own self sufficiency (food/agriculture is used as an example). So what did the initial group of Takers DO? War...overran tribal area's...'absorb' and conquer many cultures or genocide...if you can't absorb them then destroy them and that INCLUDES their religion. Please note that our 'old' earth religions in the West were 'adopted' and changed or merged into Orthodox faith. Suddenly Mother Earth (Goddess) is now a whore....and Mother Mary is now a virgin (another face of the Goddess)...know what I mean? Since Takers are intent upon creating a 'homogenized' type of world 'for the good of all concerned'...in order to corner the market on power for themselves. I don't see any reason why we swallow what others deem as 'facts' when, in light of new evidence (not so new really), it seems that our 'history' is much much older than previously thought. Maybe 'literal' translations are closer to the truth than we think (in scripture in terms of years). Kali Yuga may have started when? Could it be that this delusional narrow way of thinking is a physical manifestation of this Kali Yuga influence? Meaning we have the audacity to think in linear fashion and accept the 'status quo' as gospel? I dunno.....hmmmm.... Renee >>> lostinmotion 07/19/01 09:02AM >>> Namaste Renee, That makes sense about the orthodox mentality, as the Darwinism theories appeared during the early 20th century, which was a time period heavily under the limiting conceptions of Biblical history, which makes the claim that the world was created in 4004 BC. So even with the radically different theory of evolution, these people were working under conceptual restraints due to the clime of the time. A similar parallel was in how the historians of that time attempted to insert the total history of the Vedas into this time frame, dating all Indian scriptures against their biblical conceptual model. Other than the footprints, there are other artifacts as you say, such as tools, some dating back tens of millions of years, that have been found in layers of rock. regards, Alex J vedic astrology, "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@R...> wrote: > They had a very interesting documentary on one of our scientific channels in the U.S. awhile back (Discovery channel) regardin these footprints and how man in his present form DID exist 3.5 million years ago. One theory is that the orthodox mentality of the time discouraged the general population from believing that man has existed WAY back ....therefore everything is 'eternal' in a sense. Orthodox (Catholic/christian) groups like to be in power and chain people with idea's that they are the ONLY ones who really know what is going 'on' spiritually and historically. There are other 'artifacts' that have been found showing that man existed long ago including pieces of an airplane that has been carbon dated thousands of years ago (at least if I'm not mistaken). Hmmmmmm.... > > Me > > >>> lostinmotion@h... 07/18/01 09:21AM >>> > Hello Murali, > > The following is related to this discussion, so I have added it. It > shows scientific proof that humans existed in their current form 3.5 > million years ago, which is the Satya yuga proposed in the Sastras. > The belief that humans existed in this time was rejected by > westerners in the early 20th century as uneducated mythological > musings of the ancient Indians, but as with many other things, they > have proven to be correct. Please forgive me that this post does not > directly address your questions. > > There is not much in the ways of scientific evidence that proves that > humans existed millions of years ago. However there are a few pieces > of evidence that are undisputed, and that severely challenge the > current scientific model in vogue. > > Please view the following links. They deal with the Laetoli > footprints, that date back 3,600,000 years. This puts them into the > Satya yuga. The footprints themselves match current human ones in > form, and do not show evolution, which is against the scientific > thought. They are indistinguishable from any Homo Sapien footprint, > and do not tally with the apelike footprints evolutionists > hypothesize belong to humanity's ancestors of the time. > > http://www.evol.net/evol/laetoli.htm > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/tryit/evolution/footprints.html > http://www.humanevolution.f2s.com/laetolifoot.html > http://wupa.wustl.edu/record/archive/1996/02-15-96/2767.html > > regards, > > Alex J > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Your use of is subject to To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to nriptures against their biblical convedic astrology- Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2001 Report Share Posted July 22, 2001 HARE KRISHNA! Greetings everyone, Thanks for probing into the yugas concept. I have following questions based on the thread we started; these are philosophic questions and maybe you gurus might have shrutis or smritis to answer the following: a> Why are there only 4 yugas? b> Why should dharma depreciate in subsequent yugas? I don't believe in the answer that jealousy,greedy blah blah creeped into man and he started becoming evil while everything was perfect in Kreta yuga and these traits were missing in man as time progressed. I don't see a reason why man would have strived to become unhappy from being happy. This also makes me wonder why should God descend at the end of every Kaliyuga and restore dharma. c> Why hasn't there been a shruti or smriti for KARMA. By this I mean what will be the reaction for my action. I will further corroborate this - What sufferings will I undergo if sleep with many women? What enjoyment will I get if I don't sleep with any women? There has been many rishis and many countless Brahamas but I haven't come across any book which details every possible actions. Mind the word every because time is repetitive and actions can be limited only. d> If I were to believe that MahaVishnu descended as Ram in Treta yuga and as Krishna in Dwapar yuga - we have horoscopes of both and yet I don't see any correlation on their purva papa/punya. e> Why should Rama start something called "EKA PATNI DHARMA" and Krishna ( the same parmatmansh) descend and destroy that rule and have 16008 wives? This means laws are different for every yuga. This might also mean eating beef in Kaliyuga afterall may not be a sin. Where are those laws? These and many more genuine questions I have for which I am sincerely trying to find answers. Thanks again everyone! Murali vedic astrology, "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@R...> wrote: > Alex.... > > If you ever get a chance....read the Turner Foundation Winner...a book Called 'Ishmael' by Daniel Quinn who has written some VERY interesting books about a certain mentality that has developed in man in the last 10,000 years. The general idea behind the Old Testament is that there WAS no history of Man before a certain 'time'....roughly the idea being before 'known' accepted recorded history (before the 10,000 year mark). > > Man, in his arrogance, shaped the old Testament with statements such as God giving man 'dominion' over the Earth/animals...etc....as if we ARE superior and the world was made for US exclusively to use and abuse at will. Like who wrote this anyway? The idea that we could have existed for years and years prior to an accepted orthodox 'beginning' was not even allowed to be thought about for centuries. It's still pooh poohed despite evidence to the contrary. There is only ONE God and his name is Yahweh (yeah right). And since God created man in his own image (white) then nothing else is acceptable....everyone else (the majority of the world) is outside the box and are heretics and infidels <grin>. > > Being a student of history...a lover of philosophy, psychology, astrology, all faces/forms of spirit, mythology...etc....this book is WELL written in simple language that puts forth a theory. He basically states that there are two groups of people...the Leavers and the Takers. Leavers are natural 'tribal' (community oriented...what's good for the community/culture) people while Takers feel that there is only ONE right way for ALL and devised a plan to enslave the world and turn it into one color, one religion...one way...by 'locking up the food' and making people 'work' for it when in ancient times...no one 'owned' the capacity to find and generate their own self sufficiency (food/agriculture is used as an example). So what did the initial group of Takers DO? War...overran tribal area's...'absorb' and conquer many cultures or genocide...if you can't absorb them then destroy them and that INCLUDES their religion. Please note that our 'old' earth religions in the West were 'adopted' and changed or merged into Orthodox faith. Suddenly Mother Earth (Goddess) is now a whore....and Mother Mary is now a virgin (another face of the Goddess)...know what I mean? Since Takers are intent upon creating a 'homogenized' type of world 'for the good of all concerned'...in order to corner the market on power for themselves. > > I don't see any reason why we swallow what others deem as 'facts' when, in light of new evidence (not so new really), it seems that our 'history' is much much older than previously thought. Maybe 'literal' translations are closer to the truth than we think (in scripture in terms of years). Kali Yuga may have started when? Could it be that this delusional narrow way of thinking is a physical manifestation of this Kali Yuga influence? Meaning we have the audacity to think in linear fashion and accept the 'status quo' as gospel? I dunno.....hmmmm.... > > Renee > > >>> lostinmotion@h... 07/19/01 09:02AM >>> > Namaste Renee, > > That makes sense about the orthodox mentality, as the Darwinism > theories appeared during the early 20th century, which was a time > period heavily under the limiting conceptions of Biblical history, > which makes the claim that the world was created in 4004 BC. So even > with the radically different theory of evolution, these people were > working under conceptual restraints due to the clime of the time. > > A similar parallel was in how the historians of that time attempted > to insert the total history of the Vedas into this time frame, dating > all Indian scriptures against their biblical conceptual model. > > Other than the footprints, there are other artifacts as you say, such > as tools, some dating back tens of millions of years, that have been > found in layers of rock. > > regards, > > Alex J > > vedic astrology, "Renee Serrano" <RSERRANO@R...> wrote: > > They had a very interesting documentary on one of our scientific > channels in the U.S. awhile back (Discovery channel) regardin these > footprints and how man in his present form DID exist 3.5 million > years ago. One theory is that the orthodox mentality of the time > discouraged the general population from believing that man has > existed WAY back ....therefore everything is 'eternal' in a sense. > Orthodox (Catholic/christian) groups like to be in power and chain > people with idea's that they are the ONLY ones who really know what > is going 'on' spiritually and historically. There are > other 'artifacts' that have been found showing that man existed long > ago including pieces of an airplane that has been carbon dated > thousands of years ago (at least if I'm not mistaken). Hmmmmmm.... > > > > Me > > > > >>> lostinmotion@h... 07/18/01 09:21AM >>> > > Hello Murali, > > > > The following is related to this discussion, so I have added it. It > > shows scientific proof that humans existed in their current form > 3.5 > > million years ago, which is the Satya yuga proposed in the Sastras. > > The belief that humans existed in this time was rejected by > > westerners in the early 20th century as uneducated mythological > > musings of the ancient Indians, but as with many other things, they > > have proven to be correct. Please forgive me that this post does > not > > directly address your questions. > > > > There is not much in the ways of scientific evidence that proves > that > > humans existed millions of years ago. However there are a few > pieces > > of evidence that are undisputed, and that severely challenge the > > current scientific model in vogue. > > > > Please view the following links. They deal with the Laetoli > > footprints, that date back 3,600,000 years. This puts them into the > > Satya yuga. The footprints themselves match current human ones in > > form, and do not show evolution, which is against the scientific > > thought. They are indistinguishable from any Homo Sapien footprint, > > and do not tally with the apelike footprints evolutionists > > hypothesize belong to humanity's ancestors of the time. > > > > http://www.evol.net/evol/laetoli.htm > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/tryit/evolution/footprints.html > > http://www.humanevolution.f2s.com/laetolifoot.html > > http://wupa.wustl.edu/record/archive/1996/02-15-96/2767.html > > > > regards, > > > > Alex J > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to nriptures against their biblical convedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2001 Report Share Posted July 22, 2001 Dear Murali. I couldn't answer the rest of your posts with confidence, but this one i have some insight to; <<e> Why should Rama start something called "EKA PATNI DHARMA" and Krishna ( the same parmatmansh) descend and destroy that rule and have 16008 wives? This means laws are different for every yuga. This might also mean eating beef in Kaliyuga afterall may not be a sin. Where are those laws?>> Rama stated that in his next birth, he wouldn't abide by the rule he gave, yet pressed the issue alot. Krishna also upheld dharma, but didn't uphold this one dharmic act, as he had predicted. The Prophet Muhamed also had many wives, and for some time, it was ok for the muslims to have many wives.. why? because the wars had killed many men, and left many widows that needed to be protected. The Prophet didn't have time for any of his wives.. *laughs* but he protected them. Later on this rule was un-needed, and hence removed. i.e. rules/guidelines for the benefit of protecting humanity. Unfortunately tradition has become distorted along the way and today put muslim women in very bad circumstances, in the middle-east, but this has nothing todo with Islam. Best wishes, Visti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2001 Report Share Posted July 25, 2001 > > m_muraly [m_muraly] > Monday, July 23, 2001 12:15 AM > c> Why hasn't there been a shruti or smriti for KARMA. By this I mean There are. Why, you can even find some in some Upanishads. > what will be the reaction for my action. I will further corroborate > this - What sufferings will I undergo if sleep with many women? What > enjoyment will I get if I don't sleep with any women? There has been Check out Vishnu purana, for instance, when it describes the various hells. Btw, you don't need to perform the act, even thinking about it is considered a sin. > e> Why should Rama start something called "EKA PATNI DHARMA" and > Krishna ( the same parmatmansh) descend and destroy that rule and > have 16008 wives? This means laws are different for every yuga. This 1. Sri Rama held eka patni 'vrata'. There is a difference here. Dharma is mandatory, vrata isn't. Vrata is mostly individualistic. Why, Dasaratha himself had 3 wives! Having more than one wife was dharma then (and if I am not wrong, according to dharmashaastras, even now it is dharma). 2. Sri Krishna did not 'destroy' any dharma. But you are right, the laws are slightly different for different yuga. Parashara smriti says that. Manu smriti is for the Krita Yuga,(I don't remember the rest) and Parashara smriti for Kali Yuga. > might also mean eating beef in Kaliyuga afterall may not be a sin. > Where are those laws? That is not true. Eating 'beef' (among other meat products) is anyday a sin. Check out any smriti. I have seen Gautama, Manu, Apastamba and parashara shrutis. Killing a cow is considered a 'mahaapataka' in all of them. Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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