US Chart and American Civil War

[Guest guest]

Dear Nimmi and friends,

 

Here are my 2 cents on US chart and civil war.

 

> Hi Sally,

>

> This is interesting as it gives an ascendant of 21 degrees of cancer. I

was

> not sure of the time zone, so used the same as NY.

>

> Given the new year chart also has the same ascendant, this makes it quite

a

> strong candidate.

>

> I thought I would have a go at the Vimshottri dasa - now in the second

> cycle - and the current dasa is that of Venus-Venus.

>

> Venus rules the 4th and the 11th and is aspected by saturn ruling the 7th

> and 8th. It is debilitated in Navamsa. Were there any events around

> 1878-1881 in the US that caused serious trauma as a nation? I am hopeless

at

> history. Do you know the dates of the American Civil War?

 

CIVIL WAR WHEN:

 

The Civil War took place in 1861-1865. That would be 6th & 11th lord's

Vimsottari dasa and 6th house's Narayana dasa as per the chart Sanjay gave

the other day.

 

WHICH CHART & WHY:

 

Though Sally's logic in favor of the Cancer lagna chart is very interesting,

I want to present an argument for the July 4, 1776 chart with Sg lagna (i.e.

the one used by Sanjay).

 

First I want to give a relevant extract from my book:

 

"When a new leader takes command of a nation, it signals a new beginning for

the nation and hence the chart cast for the moment of swearing-in is

important. However, the beginning of a new order is more important than the

beginning of a new command. When a nation re-organizes itself based on new

philosophies and thought, it signals the beginning of a new order. Chart

cast for the beginning of a new order is more important than a swearing-in

chart.

 

For example, the nation of India existed for more than 5,000 years. However,

it took a new identity when it won independence on 15th August 1947. The

independence chart of India shows the beginning of a new order in India.

Though several princely states joined India after her independence, there

was no major change in the identity of India. When India formed its

constitution and declared itself a Sovereign Replublic on 26th January 1950,

its identity was only consolidated and not changed. So the independence

chart (15th August 1947, midnight, Delhi) is the birthchart of India and it

is the most important one for predicting India’s fortune."

 

Though the formal finalization of states may have taken place in 1781, the

identity and idealogy of the nation of USA was finalized on July 4, 1776

itself. The declarations of that day are still valid and they still form the

identity of USA. When the formal finalization of states took place or when a

new state joined (e.g. Alaska) or when a new nation was declared with the

breakaway states before civil war or when those states rejoined, the

nation's external boundaries and internal state boundaries may have changed,

but the identity remained the same! So, IMHO, all those dates are not

important. They simply form important events and not birthdata.

 

RECTIFICATION:

 

The most popular July 4, 1776 chart uses 6:30 pm. This is a 225-year old

chart and obviously birthtime error could be huge.

 

Pt. Sanjay Rath categorically told me that navamsa lagna must be Leo. A

person becomes a king and achieves great things if chara Atma Karaka (AK) is

in lagna in navamsa, as per the teachings of Sages. Considering the top

position USA attained in the world, USA must have this combination. Saturn

is AK and he is in Leo in navamsa and hence Pt. Rath rectified navamsa lgan

to Leo. This makes a lot of sense to me.

 

When he told me this logic, he told me to use other divisional charts

(especially D-60) and rectify further. But, let me skip that step and take

the birthtime as 6:50 pm. (Our navamsa rectification puts it in

18:48-19:02).

 

CIVIL WAR:

 

Venus dasa was running at the time of the civil war. Venus is the 6th and

11th lord (a functional malefic) and closely afflicts lagna lord and lagna

(lagna: 13Sg39, Jupiter: 15Ge13, Venus: 12Ge28). Antardasa of Rahu in the

8th house started the civil war. When the war started, Rahu was transiting

in Sg (lagna).

 

As per Narayana dasa, Taurus dasa started in July 1860 and ran for the

entire duration of the war. Taurus is the 6th house. As dasas started from

the 7th house, take the 7th from dasa rasi as dasa lagna. This gives Sc as

the dasa lagna. During Sc dasa, results obtained are analyzed by taking Sc

as lagna. Its lord Mars is in 8th with 3 other planets. In dasa pravesh

chart also, there are inauspicious indications. Lagna lord Moon is in 8th;

lagna axis has 6 planets including retrograde Mars and nodes; and, lagna is

hemmed between Sun and Saturn. From (1) placement of dasa sign in natal

chart, (2) analysis of birth chart w.r.t. dasa lagna and (3) analysis of

dasa pravesh chart, we get negative indications. Especially, the dasa

pravesh chart beautifully fits a civil war.

 

If you cast the dasa pravesh charts of dasas since 1930s, you will realize

that they show the general results in a dasa quite well.

 

FUTURE:

 

Current Vi dasa's dasa pravesh chart has Sun and Moon in 8th with 8th lord.

Ketu in 6th gives tough enemies. Mars in 7th gives bold associates too. But

the next Ta dasa's dasa pravesh chart is particularly interesting. Note that

it is the same dasa that gave a civil war 144 years ago (6th house and

planets in 8th from dasa lagna). In the dasa pravesh chart (which changes

between two occurrences of dasa), Gemini lagna is closely afflicted by Sun

and Saturn (who are only 14 min apart!), while lagna lord Merucry is closely

afflicted by debilitated functional malefic Mars. So 2004-2015 is not at all

a good period for USA.

 

> Regards,

>

> Nimmi

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

[Guest guest]

Om Krishna Guru

---------------

 

Dear Narasimha,

 

Thanks a lot for the nice and detailed analysis regarding USA in this

thread.

 

I am aware that both Sanjay Ji and yourself; are genius in Mundane

Jyotish.

 

I remember that both Sanjay Ji and yourself; did some analysis of

Full Moon charts of USA [while I was working on the Makara Sankranti

Charts for the same].

 

I believe that the conclusion [of that analysis done by you]

signals a date from around October 5, 2001 upto October 24, 2001; for

USA to retaliate or declare war.

 

I also remember one other gentleman on this list highlighting

Saturday [september 22, 2001] as being very significant.

 

While I am in general agreement about October 4/5, 2001; I would

further like to know your opinion about coming Saturday [september

22, 2001].

 

Could you please take some time and see if there is any major event

for USA in this confrontation within next 24 hours?

 

I am merely a student at the moment and therefore have my

limitations.

 

However; I have strong intuitions and something tells me that coming

48 hours may trigger some major event regarding this confrontation.

 

In any case...

 

Please take care and give my best regards to all your loved ones

ever.

 

Once again; many thanks for the detailed explanation of US Chart

analysis.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Ron

 

vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> wrote:

> Dear Nimmi and friends,

>

> Here are my 2 cents on US chart and civil war.

>

> > Hi Sally,

> >

> > This is interesting as it gives an ascendant of 21 degrees of

cancer. I

> was

> > not sure of the time zone, so used the same as NY.

> >

> > Given the new year chart also has the same ascendant, this makes

it quite

> a

> > strong candidate.

> >

> > I thought I would have a go at the Vimshottri dasa - now in the

second

> > cycle - and the current dasa is that of Venus-Venus.

> >

> > Venus rules the 4th and the 11th and is aspected by saturn ruling

the 7th

> > and 8th. It is debilitated in Navamsa. Were there any events

around

> > 1878-1881 in the US that caused serious trauma as a nation? I am

hopeless

> at

> > history. Do you know the dates of the American Civil War?

>

> CIVIL WAR WHEN:

>

> The Civil War took place in 1861-1865. That would be 6th & 11th

lord's

> Vimsottari dasa and 6th house's Narayana dasa as per the chart

Sanjay gave

> the other day.

>

> WHICH CHART & WHY:

>

> Though Sally's logic in favor of the Cancer lagna chart is very

interesting,

> I want to present an argument for the July 4, 1776 chart with Sg

lagna (i.e.

> the one used by Sanjay).

>

> First I want to give a relevant extract from my book:

>

> "When a new leader takes command of a nation, it signals a new

beginning for

> the nation and hence the chart cast for the moment of swearing-in

is

> important. However, the beginning of a new order is more important

than the

> beginning of a new command. When a nation re-organizes itself based

on new

> philosophies and thought, it signals the beginning of a new order.

Chart

> cast for the beginning of a new order is more important than a

swearing-in

> chart.

>

> For example, the nation of India existed for more than 5,000 years.

However,

> it took a new identity when it won independence on 15th August

1947. The

> independence chart of India shows the beginning of a new order in

India.

> Though several princely states joined India after her independence,

there

> was no major change in the identity of India. When India formed its

> constitution and declared itself a Sovereign Replublic on 26th

January 1950,

> its identity was only consolidated and not changed. So the

independence

> chart (15th August 1947, midnight, Delhi) is the birthchart of

India and it

> is the most important one for predicting India's fortune."

>

> Though the formal finalization of states may have taken place in

1781, the

> identity and idealogy of the nation of USA was finalized on July 4,

1776

> itself. The declarations of that day are still valid and they still

form the

> identity of USA. When the formal finalization of states took place

or when a

> new state joined (e.g. Alaska) or when a new nation was declared

with the

> breakaway states before civil war or when those states rejoined,

the

> nation's external boundaries and internal state boundaries may have

changed,

> but the identity remained the same! So, IMHO, all those dates are

not

> important. They simply form important events and not birthdata.

>

> RECTIFICATION:

>

> The most popular July 4, 1776 chart uses 6:30 pm. This is a

225-year old

> chart and obviously birthtime error could be huge.

>

> Pt. Sanjay Rath categorically told me that navamsa lagna must be

Leo. A

> person becomes a king and achieves great things if chara Atma

Karaka (AK) is

> in lagna in navamsa, as per the teachings of Sages. Considering the

top

> position USA attained in the world, USA must have this combination.

Saturn

> is AK and he is in Leo in navamsa and hence Pt. Rath rectified

navamsa lgan

> to Leo. This makes a lot of sense to me.

>

> When he told me this logic, he told me to use other divisional

charts

> (especially D-60) and rectify further. But, let me skip that step

and take

> the birthtime as 6:50 pm. (Our navamsa rectification puts it in

> 18:48-19:02).

>

> CIVIL WAR:

>

> Venus dasa was running at the time of the civil war. Venus is the

6th and

> 11th lord (a functional malefic) and closely afflicts lagna lord

and lagna

> (lagna: 13Sg39, Jupiter: 15Ge13, Venus: 12Ge28). Antardasa of Rahu

in the

> 8th house started the civil war. When the war started, Rahu was

transiting

> in Sg (lagna).

>

> As per Narayana dasa, Taurus dasa started in July 1860 and ran for

the

> entire duration of the war. Taurus is the 6th house. As dasas

started from

> the 7th house, take the 7th from dasa rasi as dasa lagna. This

gives Sc as

> the dasa lagna. During Sc dasa, results obtained are analyzed by

taking Sc

> as lagna. Its lord Mars is in 8th with 3 other planets. In dasa

pravesh

> chart also, there are inauspicious indications. Lagna lord Moon is

in 8th;

> lagna axis has 6 planets including retrograde Mars and nodes; and,

lagna is

> hemmed between Sun and Saturn. From (1) placement of dasa sign in

natal

> chart, (2) analysis of birth chart w.r.t. dasa lagna and (3)

analysis of

> dasa pravesh chart, we get negative indications. Especially, the

dasa

> pravesh chart beautifully fits a civil war.

>

> If you cast the dasa pravesh charts of dasas since 1930s, you will

realize

> that they show the general results in a dasa quite well.

>

> FUTURE:

>

> Current Vi dasa's dasa pravesh chart has Sun and Moon in 8th with

8th lord.

> Ketu in 6th gives tough enemies. Mars in 7th gives bold associates

too. But

> the next Ta dasa's dasa pravesh chart is particularly interesting.

Note that

> it is the same dasa that gave a civil war 144 years ago (6th house

and

> planets in 8th from dasa lagna). In the dasa pravesh chart (which

changes

> between two occurrences of dasa), Gemini lagna is closely afflicted

by Sun

> and Saturn (who are only 14 min apart!), while lagna lord Merucry

is closely

> afflicted by debilitated functional malefic Mars. So 2004-2015 is

not at all

> a good period for USA.

>

> > Regards,

> >

> > Nimmi

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

[Guest guest]

Dear Ron,

 

I am actually not so good at mundane/political astrology, let alone being a

genius.

 

I expect the "real action" to start in October and some twists after Oct 12.

If US waits till Oct 18, it will be an auspicious time for them, but they

are probably in a hurry.

 

I saw the stirring speech given by Bush to Congress tonight and one

naturally thinks that the strikes are just 24-48 hours away.

 

However, I do not expect the strikes to start before Sept 24.

 

If indeed US starts strikes on Sept 21 or 22, it will be very unfortunate

because Moon will be debilitated. Bush's swearing-in chart has the bad

combination of 4th lord Moon debilitated in 8th and hemmed between 8th lords

(Mars and Ketu). This weakness and affliction of Moon is unfavorable and is

responsible for the absence of the sense of comofrt and well-being in the

nation. When you already face the dwawback of a weak Moon, why compound it

by going for a muhurta with debilitated Moon?

 

It will be auspicious to strike when Moon is in Aq or Ar or at least Sg, but

not in Sc.

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

 

> Om Krishna Guru

> ---------------

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> Thanks a lot for the nice and detailed analysis regarding USA in this

> thread.

>

> I am aware that both Sanjay Ji and yourself; are genius in Mundane

> Jyotish.

>

> I remember that both Sanjay Ji and yourself; did some analysis of

> Full Moon charts of USA [while I was working on the Makara Sankranti

> Charts for the same].

>

> I believe that the conclusion [of that analysis done by you]

> signals a date from around October 5, 2001 upto October 24, 2001; for

> USA to retaliate or declare war.

>

> I also remember one other gentleman on this list highlighting

> Saturday [september 22, 2001] as being very significant.

>

> While I am in general agreement about October 4/5, 2001; I would

> further like to know your opinion about coming Saturday [september

> 22, 2001].

>

> Could you please take some time and see if there is any major event

> for USA in this confrontation within next 24 hours?

>

> I am merely a student at the moment and therefore have my

> limitations.

>

> However; I have strong intuitions and something tells me that coming

> 48 hours may trigger some major event regarding this confrontation.

>

> In any case...

>

> Please take care and give my best regards to all your loved ones

> ever.

>

> Once again; many thanks for the detailed explanation of US Chart

> analysis.

>

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Ron

[Guest guest]

Dear Narasimha, Ron and list,

 

I've been trying to follow this thread and I have one doubt that has been giving

me a lot of trouble. I know very little of mundane astrology so please bear

with me, but why do we look at Full Moon charts to see the fate of nations? I

am thinking that the NEW moon chart, when the moon and sun are exactly conjunct

would show the events of that new month. Does the Full moon chart show

something different? I'll send the chart a little later because I'm short on

time, but the new moon chart for Washington, DC for October 16th at 2:26pm

looks worrisome to me with Capricorn rising and mars/ketu in 12th house of war

and jup/rah in 6th house of armed forces. I could be wrong, the only mundane

astrology I know is what I read in Narasimha's excellent book.

 

Best wishes to all,

Karen

[Guest guest]

Om Krishna Guru

---------------

 

Dear Narasimha, Karen, and friends: Pranaam

 

 

Narasimha Ji...first of all; thank you for your further analysis with

explanations regarding debilated Moon. That was an excellent point I

missed.

 

About you being a genius; I was told by *knowledgable* friends on

this list that "both Sanjay and Narasimha are genius with Mundane

Jyotish, so let us look at their predictions" :-)

 

Now to address your question Karen...

 

You have asked what is the importance of Full Moon Charts?

 

Well...I will be very upfront and tell you that I do not know!

 

Similar to you, I too learnt this excellent technique from Sanjay

Ji's post; just a couple of days ago.

 

How did this technique come up:

 

I posted a message indicating that I was plotting Makara Sankranti

Charts for USA.

 

Based on those charts; I estimated that USA should retaliate *within

the time-frame* when Mars (Mangal) and South Node (Ketu) were within

1 degrees of each other.

 

However, further to my message, Sanjay Ji indicated to me that he had

used Makara Sankranti Charts for a pretty long time and was not very

happy with the results. Therefore the afore-mentioned method [Full

Moon Charts], was presented by Sanjay Ji for accurate predictions and

results.

 

Narasimha Ji was also working on USA charts and therefore I requested

him to give his opinion regarding Saturday [tomorrow].

 

BTW...because of B.A.V.A conference in UK, Sanjay Ji may not be able

to respond to all messages and posts here.

 

Anyway, your take on New Moon is also interesting.

 

Nonetheless, since Narasimha Ji has highlighted September 24 as the

first most [*auspicious*] possible strike, and since no retaliation

took place during Mars + Ketu [within one degree] conjunction, even I

am concentrating on learning the Full Moon charts.

 

Note: Narasimha Ji has been very clear on his dates in this thread

and has predicted both unfortunate and fortunate periods for

retaliation; without nailing a specific date.

 

So I hope that all of us here will keep this in mind and not try to

be judgmental with whatever outcome develops of this rather bizarre

situation [uS Crisis].

 

End note.

 

With that...

 

Thanks again and...

 

Please give my best regards to all your loved ones ever and you [all]

take care too.

 

Om Namo Narayana

 

 

Kind regards and best wishes,

 

Ron

 

 

vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> wrote:

> Dear Ron,

>

> I am actually not so good at mundane/political astrology, let alone

being a

> genius.

>

> I expect the "real action" to start in October and some twists

after Oct 12.

> If US waits till Oct 18, it will be an auspicious time for them,

but they

> are probably in a hurry.

>

> I saw the stirring speech given by Bush to Congress tonight and one

> naturally thinks that the strikes are just 24-48 hours away.

>

> However, I do not expect the strikes to start before Sept 24.

>

> If indeed US starts strikes on Sept 21 or 22, it will be very

unfortunate

> because Moon will be debilitated. Bush's swearing-in chart has the

bad

> combination of 4th lord Moon debilitated in 8th and hemmed between

8th lords

> (Mars and Ketu). This weakness and affliction of Moon is

unfavorable and is

> responsible for the absence of the sense of comofrt and well-being

in the

> nation. When you already face the dwawback of a weak Moon, why

compound it

> by going for a muhurta with debilitated Moon?

>

> It will be auspicious to strike when Moon is in Aq or Ar or at

least Sg, but

> not in Sc.

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

>