Varsha vs. daiva varsha ( was Yugas - Comment Please!)

[Guest guest]

>

> And you should also consider that there's a Kaalacakra in every

planetary

> system, amd the rotate with different relative speeds. Like for us

one year

> is one cycle of the |Sun's movement, however for the Pitas one days

is one

> humen months, and for the Devat one day is one human year, while

for Brahma

> one day is 4 320 000 000 human years.

 

If one wants to look for natural cycles in this, at least to me it's

clear that the Devas are associated with the Sun (solar year) and the

Pitris with the Moon (month). There are many things science does not

know about solar cycles, for now only that there is an 11 year

sunspot cycle.

 

In recorded history there was a mysterious "little ice age" which

ended abruptly (and lasted from the 15th century to the 19th

century), and science does not have any explanation for it that I

know of. So from a natural point of view it's quite possible that

there is some solar cycle which is 360 years long. There would then

probably be some night and day phase in this cycle too.

[Guest guest]

Namasthe,

 

I have seen a couple of issues pertaining to this issue.

 

1. Some people treated "daiva varsha"(This appears in the

translations only) as varsha.

 

2. Some people(Including Shri yukteshwar) were pointed in the past,

that the shastras never coined "daiva varsha", nor the very

equation "daiva varsha = 360 human varshas(if we consider this very

approximation, 1 human varsha = 360 days)". These were coined by

puranikas. This gross error is noticable in kalluka bhatta bhashya.

And otherpuranakaras are continuing this. I feel, this is due to

ignorance of kali.

 

Note: Puraanas never form an authority in ancient India. Still the

practing panditas in India attest to this.

 

See my comments on ayanamsha and brahaman, kshatriya, vysya, sudra

below.

 

> JAYA JAGANNATHA!

>

> Dera Venkateshvara,

>

> Namaste.

>

> >

> > Dear Gauranga prabhu, Namasthe.

> >

> > Appended are the comments:

> >

> > Here is the problem: if the 360 factor exists in the

> > chaturyuga cycle calculation (the verses quoted by

> > Gaurangji don't say this, only their translations

> > claim so),

>

> I was speaking about the human year taken as a solar year. Demigods

year is

> given as 12 months of 30 days each whereas 1 day is one human year.

I can

> give quote if needed.

 

 

>However the exact duration of a precessional cycle is not 24

>000 solar years but 25 870 solar years. Other Jyotish Gurus please

>help me out on where this information comes from Maybe Varaha Mihira

>or the Surya siddhanta gives it. I'm not sure.

 

Most of the people get stumped in this here. See my earlier posts on

varsha and panchangam.

 

The ayanaamsha(Let it be Lahiri) is with respect to the nakshatra-s,

is it not? Thus this cycle is about 25,900 years. But the 24,000 year

cycle is with respect seasons (hence 24,000 varshas, not

samvatsaras), or equally, with respect to a fixed point on earth

orbit - say aphelion or perihelion. The 25,900 year period drops to

24,000 years since this ORBIT itself spins in the direction opposite

to spin axis precession. Humbly I feel this is where yoga master

Yukteshwar ji goofed, and now most of the people are confused.

 

Please meditate...

 

 

 

> Great philosophers imagine that the complete planetary systems in

the

> universe are displays of the different upper and lower limbs of the

> universal body of the Lord.

> The brahmanas represent His mouth, the ksatriyas His arms, the

vaisyas His

> thighs, and the sudras are born of His legs.

 

Manusmruti says Braahmanas are "born" from Brahma's head, etc. but

shruti does not say so. Shruti (in Purushasuktam) says: From (His)

feet are born shudras. Before this shruti also says everything, the

whole universe was born from His feet. So, the two tegether means:

all are born shudra-s. Then by support "thighs", a vaishya is

"made"; from work of "power shoulders", a king is "made" (krutah is

the word used); one who "sits" (aaseet is the verb used) on His face

(becomes) BraahmaNa. So, the real imoprt of shruti (all born are

shudras, by support,work or wisdom the born becomes one of the varna-

s) got distorted in the shaastra. This was beginning of humanities'

downfall, Satyayuga had ended by then.

 

 

 

With Wishes,

Shankara.

[Guest guest]

Namasthe,

 

 

This is from Manusr`ti ch.1, verse 83:

 

arOgAH sarvasidDhArThAschaturvarSashatAyuSaH

kr`tatrEtAdiSu hYESAmAyurhrasati pAdashaH ||

 

Meaning: In kr`tayuga people don't suffer from

disease. They enjoy everything and live 400 varSa-s.

In trEtA, etc. yuga-s, their lifespan decreases by one

quarter (from the previous yuga) - i.e., it decreases

by 100 varSa-s.

 

Translations and commentaries of this verse are seen

to be same in all such works to date (kallUka Bhatta,

mEDhAtiThi, Beuler, SheSa Navaratna, etc.).

 

Vaidika-s quote Shruti, "shatamAnam Bhavati shatAyuH

puruSaH" etc., which says that human lifespan is 100

years on earth. So, the above verse of Manusmr`ti

shaastra too stands incorrect as per Shruti.

 

Prof. Bankim Chattopadhyaya (Bharatiya History from

Bharatiya viewpoint, Itihasa sankalana samiti,

Kalkotta) has quoted that purANa-s state Shree Raama

ruled for 60,000 years (he lived in trEtAyuga when

lifespan was 10,000 years according to poojya

Prabhupada), and that it is the style of the purANa-s

to add "sahasra" as in story telling. This way

he was able to fit the chronologies of chandra and

sUrya vamsha kings of the very purANa-s.

 

Also, purANa-s were never counted as reference to

shaastra, never never to Veda or Veda practice, by

shaastrakaara-s or Vaidika-s. Laymen may do so. Even

today, no Vaidika/shaastra scholar treats purANa as a

pramANa over a shaastra or Veda or how it should be

interpreted. Veda Vedaanga practice and arThajnAnam

(its understanding, not bookish translation)

were pre-requisites for mastering any shaastra, but

during the British Raj in India, this gurukula

education suffered. We anglicized now place cart

before horse, read some purANa translations, and

conclude.....

 

> JAYA JAGANNATHA!

>

> Dera Venkateshvara,

>

> Namaste.

>

> >

> > Dear Gauranga prabhu, Namasthe.

> >

> > Appended are the comments:

> >

> > Here is the problem: if the 360 factor exists in

> the

> > chaturyuga cycle calculation (the verses quoted by

> > Gaurangji don't say this, only their translations

> > claim so),

>

> I was speaking about the human year taken as a solar

> year. Demigods

> year is

> given as 12 months of 30 days each whereas 1 day is

> one human year. I

> can

> give quote if needed.

>

>

> and if we accept traditional view that now

> > we are in year 5103 of kaliyuga, roughly when was

> > Shree KrishNa's time? When was Shree Raama's time,

> > supposedly, in the last tretaayuga? How does this

> > tally with the vamshaavali part of the same

> puraaNa-s

> > where about 2-3,000 years difference is given

> > between Shree Raama and Brihadvala, who fought in

> the

> > Bhaarata war? PuraaNa-s also go back in

> vamshaavali

> > all the way to Ikshvaaku, son of Manu of

> > satyayugaanta. Ikshvaaku to Raama thus works out

> to be

> > about 2,000 years. Even if we assign 400 years to

> each

> > generation, it is no more than 20,000 years. Is

> this

> > the difference between last satya yuga and last

> tretaa

> > yuga? Don't the puraaNa-s make clear that

> > the chaturyuga-s are referred herein, not some

> > subcycle whose very concept is not present in the

> > puraaNa-s or any shaastra text?

>

> lease give exact quotes for your statements. Then we

> can deal with

> them. I

> have given quotes to indicate the correlation

> between human and daiva

> varsha. For chronology we should consider afew

> things. For example,

> some

> people and sages of previous ages lived for thousand

> s and thousand s

> of

> years, so you should take into consideration a

> different longevity

> also.

>

>

> Any new idea must fit

> > in the framework of logic: pratyakSa, anumAna,

> aitihya

> > (upama), and Shruti. Where does the subcycle fit

> in

> > this basis of logic? pratyakSa - is there such a

> > natural (not man-made) cycle? anumAna - can it be

> > deduced from some other natural event? aitihya

> (upama)

> > - did it happen many times before?

> > Shruti - is there a revealed samhita mantra to

> back it

> > up?

>

> I'm sorry I did not state that. This idea was

> proposed by Sanjayji, so

> please ask evidence from him. I for myself can see

> some possibility

> to this,

> however proofs asked for by you are indeed

> necessary. maybe he has

> some

> revelation from Achyuta das, who was speaking about

> the subcycles.

> Let's see

> what he says.

>

> > This also raises another problem: in Manusmr`ti

> and in

> >

> > puraaNa-s it is said that human age in satyayuga

> is

> > 400 years, in tretaa 300 years, in dvaapara 200

> years,

> > in kali 100 years (which goes against Shruti of

> 100

> > year human lifespan at any time, hence

> shastra/puraaNa

> > on this issue is really false I feel). Now, using

> this

> > very thinking and translations like the ones

> Gauragji

> > posted or kallUka Bhatta/meDhAtiThi, how shall we

> > figure out the chaturyuga cycles?

>

> I'm sorry, where do you take this information from?

> According to Srila

> Prabhupada, men in Satya lived for 100 000 solar

> years, in Treta for

> 10 000

> in Dwapara for 1000 and in Kali for 100 or 120 acc.

> to Parashara. He

> quotes

> a part of the Bhagavata Purana as follows

> (4.12.13.):

>

> shat-trimshad-varsha-saahasram

> shashaasa ksiti-mandalam

> bhogaih punya-kshayam kurvann

> abhogair ashubha-kshayam

>

> TRANSLATION

> Dhruva Maharaja ruled over this planet for

> thirty-six thousand years;

> he

> diminished the reactions of pious activities by

> enjoyment, and by

> practicing

> austerities he diminished inauspicious reactions.

>

> Therefore his history should be dated back to Satya

> yuga. Because in

> the

> Puranas it is not always mentioned in which yuga did

> a certain

> personlaity

> live, we can aldo judge it according to the

> longevity.

>

> > Connecting human lifespan to daiva varsha - we

> need

> > shaastric (i.e. scientific in ancient India)

> basis,

> > and I can't find any. It has no astronomical nor

> > logical basis either. When we discard the 360x in

> > yugacycle arithmetic, all vamshaavali-s,

> traditional

> > views about Iskvaaku's, Rama's and KrishNa's

> times,

> > times of the many shaastra texts, and all the

> > astronomical references of scriptures fit

> > in. Thus, the very chaturyuga cycle gets tied to

>

> No, they don't. n che same Adhyaya which I quoted

> Maitreya explaining

> the

> duration of a daiva varsha, he states as follows

> (3.11.18.):

>

> maitreya uvaaca

> kritam tretaa dvaaparam ca

> kalish ceti catur-yugam

> divyair dvaadashabhir varshai

> saavadhaanam niruupitam

> TRANSLATION

> Maitreya said: O Vidura, the four millenniums are

> called the Satya,

> Tretaa,

> Dvaapara and Kali yugas. The aggregate number of

> years of all of these

> combined is equal to twelve thousand years of the

> demigods.

>

> So here he explicitly mentions 12 000 daiva varshas,

> which as a few

> shlokas

> earlier was explained to be 360 solar years each.

>

> > seasonal precession - for example, in 12,000

> years,

> > spring solstice moves from Ashvini to chitraa, in

> the

> > next it moves back to Ashvini. In 30.5 such 24,000

> > year cycles (or 71 of 12,000 year chaturyuga-s as

> > Manusmr`ti clearly defines 'manvantara') the

> solstice

> > point of earth orbit itself shifts by one

> nakshatra

> > division in a 28 nakshatra system - this is one

> > manvantara duration (this is the only place

> > ancient sages used the 28 nakshatra division),

>

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

- Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

http://fifaworldcup.