Sobering...the influence of Sani!!

September 3, 2002

Dearest Gurus and members,

Please accept my respects.

My interest in Vedic astrology is very neophyte,so I hope by

posing such questions I am not offending any one especially the pundits and

Gurus. That is not my intent.

I read a tremendous interview on jyotishdiscovery by Robert

Koch. It was succinct in that he explained how Jyotisha is not an absolute

science,it is has more to do with karma and the struggles or glories that may

be allotted to and individuals due to past purvya punya or impious acts. That

is not the true nature of the "soul" which is pure and transcendental to all

"karma",karma which deals with the interactions

of this material tabernacle.

Junior persons as myself are trying to understand the

different tendencies of the planetary influences. And, as in this case, how

they are instrumental in uplifting the jiva or dragging it deeper into

samsara's,and as Saturn ,as I have heard, is also the representation of

Yamaraja,which ultimately does imply justice and fairness - how Sani will

manifest for good or evil in charts.

I know that there are many excellent books that can be read on

the topic. Reading coupled with humble inquiry,practice, correction by the

Senior Pundits/Gurus and also earning there blessings for me, is ideal. On

this forum there is so much range of inquiry,and I am grateful for the

opportunity to be a member...it is a privilege. It is a tricky position

..however,as one may be somewhat nerve racking - there is always margin for

error... and the knowledge can be somewhat intimidating!

I have heard a very interesting story around Sani's glance,I

believe was from The Ramayana. That when Ravana was in power,he was so

tremendous in influence that he scared all the planets into serving him. At

that, when Ravana walked by Sani who was offering respects to him in the

forest...(for some reason??)...Ravana kicked dust into Sani's face and with

anger Sani tilted his head up and thus gave Ravana his famous

"glance"....thusly that was the beginning of Ravana's demise. Thusly,is it

true that Sani's aspect/glance can be more "devastating" than his placement?

Can anyone tell me if this story is correct? Are there any books that talk

about the different, for lack of better terminology "mythologies" of the

planets?

respectfully...mmdd

-

HosabettuRamadas Rao

vedic astrology

Tuesday, September 03, 2002 7:10 PM

Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Interesting and unpredictable satrun? Reply to Farrukh

OM KLEEM KRISHNAYA NAMAHA

Dear Vishti,Narahari,Prasad and other respected members of the list,

After reading everybody's mail regarding Shani's traits and including

Farrukh,What I wanted to tell all is that one man telling Indian Astrology is

not complete,that means he has not gone deeply into Indian Vedic-Astrology.Then

why all of you are insisting on him certain traits of Gaint,judge of mankind

Shani which will not bear him any useful results.Such e mails to be

discarded/neglected and continue to go further with other Astrological

discussions. Because Time is more important and as everybody knows KAALAAYA

TASMAI NAMAHA. I hope everybody knows this and I rememeber some months before

also somebody poked such questions and the Gurus of this list has finally told

to neglect such mails.So I think it is not necessary to answer such

mails.Please forgive me for writing like this as I am a strong believer of God.

With best regards,

Ramadas Rao.

-

in_joy_i_scream

Tuesday, September 03, 2002 6:49 AM

vedic astrology

[vedic astrology] Re: Interesting and unpredictable satrun? Reply to Farrukh, Mohini et al

vedic astrology, "prasadphatak" <prasadp@e...> wrote:> Farrukh,> >

Hey, i'm a gemini asc with saturn in it..> > You dont have to get so hurt and

hurt in return. every one (including > katti) has a right to exist and believe

and think in his own way. you > are showing a perfectly moony behaviour and

thats not going to serve > a discussion group in a field such as vedic

astrology. > > As far as the question of vedic astrology being complete is >

concerned, I feel that no field can be complete as completeness has > only one

state. everything is like time, i.e. has a past, present and > future, hence

trigunatmak. fields like medicine, astrology etc are > governed by eighth house

primarily. Its all about exploring the > unknown. If the science is complete

then how can there be any unknown > or 8th hse element ? but this explanation

emanates from this science > itself so u may say its complete..forget it, its

kinda paradoxical > > now coming to saturn.. when katti is asking you about

considering > upapada regarding marriages or relations, he's right in a way but

may > not be concerned with ur context. i do agree with most of your views >

regarding saturn. it always tries to be the perfect. its called Manda > in

vedic astro, meaning slow. It tries to control everything by being > the

slowest. so, in a way has the most say over "time" compared to > any other

planet. thats why saturn's results are long lasting. but as > far strength is

concerned its 30 times less in strength than sun. so > putting it all together,

saturn asks for patience. if saturn is > benefic to ur asc and other planets are

not very supportive then in > its transit, it'll prove to be very benevolent. it

wont ignore u even > if u dont have certain skills but will give u many chances

(thats > having control over time). on the other hand, if u're a very talented

> person who has risen in life very fast, based on skills and talents > and

again if saturn is benefic to you then the same saturn in his > transit, will

cause many bad delays, frustrations and pain making > sure you respect the

social structure in general and not just be > successful. Thats why saturn is

hated by most. it appears to be > unjust because it denies many fruits to very

capable people. but over > a long run the same person realises that everything

was very "Just". > saturn is responsible for the entire socio-economic

structure. it > takes decades for a newly born country to have a reasonable >

infrastructure of roads, schools, judiciary, markets and other > amenities and

again years to set the whole thing running straight. > saturn is responsible

for all that hard work that goes in it. then > how can it allow an intelligent

kid to pass out of a good college and > in a few years start making policy

decisions affecting millions, if > that kid is not properly trained about the

whole structure. > > so saturn tries to balance, equalise everything. time,

determination > and hard-work are its weapons. its like a prime minister who's

the > most powerful person in a democratic country but never over-rules the >

president who's like the King, the Sun.> > Saturn is very friendly with venus.

it likes mercury. it respects > jupiter and mars. it hates moon. The nodes are

beyond the realms of > all the planets. Its the natural karaka of 8th and 12th

houses which > rule longevity and moksha resp. how long anything will last is >

determined by saturn. but i feel that marriages are to be judged by > the 7th

house. hence the 8th hse from 7th is 2nd house and its karaka > is jupiter. So,

the longevity of a marriage is to be judged by > jupiter and saturn has nothing

to do with it..it is generally found > that people with good jupiter are

extremely loyal to their spouse as > its their dharma or duty. but when

business relations are concerned, > its more to do with "Neeti" than "Dharma"

and there saturn has a role > to play. so longevity of business in general is

to be judged by > saturn..> > all these are my humble remarks and feedbacks are

more than welcome..> > Kalaay Tasmai NamaH> > -prasad> > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "farrukhnauman" <farrukhnauman> > wrote:> > Mr katti

Nehari Paeey,> > I respect your thoughts and questions but unfortunately I have

got > > my mind as the source of all statements. I tried my level best to > >

transform myself into a state-of-the-art robot like you, who can > > recognize

only those things which are written in texts as old as > 5th > > century BC. I

am in the process of building a time machine and I'll > > offer you a free

ride, once it is made. I'll send you back in those > > times where you'll be

able to learn directly from the authors, > > jyotish, pandit, paendu, wateva.

They'll be very happy to know that > > they have such a desperate follower in

21st century.> > I must say that its a pitty that I can't help you in getting a

new > > mind because your upper storey is an empty sphere. There must be a > >

way to get a mind into that. I am trying to contact some leading > >

neurologists who can help you. Every human has the right to have > > mind, then

why don't anyone think about you.> > Maybe you consider yourself as the god of

our times, but then again > > I don't believe in any god. I feel pitty again.

How pathetic!> > I am mad at myself that why I can't help preserve such rare

piece > of > > art like you.> > Now you'll be thinking what is the source of

this statement? Guess > > what! Your mails.> > Just yesterday I was chatting

with a mindless creature, I don't > > wanna tell people his name, and he was

telling me that Indian > > astrology can't be wrong as it is complete.> >

Einstein, Newton, Stephen Hawking, they were all mad. Why did they > > try to

aquire knowledge when there is only one knowledge on this > > planet that can

be and is complete, INDIAN ASTROLOGY. I can't help > > laughing. hehe!> > All

the great philosophers, scientists believed that one day their > > knowledge

might be complete but they were never able to do it. But > > this person (the

mindless creature) was telling me yesterday that > > Indian astrology is

absolutely complete. Amazing isn't it!> > I should contact some supernatural

being and ask him/her why only > > Indian astrology is the only knowledge that

can be and is complete. > > What is fault of einstein, newton, hawking?> >

hoohohohohoho!> > Some people don't know the most fundamental thing about

knowledge > > and that is DOUBT. Hari, Katti, whateva, doesn't seem to have any

> > doubts. But I can understand it now. He doesn't have a mind to > think > >

and so to doubt. How can you expect a 90 GB hardisk to doubt. > > Whatever you

store in it, will be stored. But no thinking!> > I just hope that Artificial

Intelligence is created before it gets > > too late for this decaying 70 kg box

of iron, steel and silicon.> > Best of luck! hari, katti, whateva you call

yourself mr robot.> > > > SOURCE OF THIS EMAIL is my mind. You can't possible

comprehend what > > is a mind because you don't have one. haha!> > Why am I

laughing! I shouldn't make fun of such miserable creatures > > like you. How

pathetic!> > I really feel sorry for you. All the members of this group should

> > helps him with his disability.> > For free thinkers like myself, I should

say that they should carry > > on the good work they've been doing. Certain

pesticides are in > every > > field to disturb you. Just carry on!> > For

Mohini, I think that you should not give up. People like this > > hari katti,

will always be there to act as a real pain in the ass.> > Oops! I cut loose on

that occasion.> > Farrukh> > > > > > vedic astrology, "Katti

Narahari" <katti_narahari@h...> > > wrote:> > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > > Dear

Farrukh, Mohini and the list,> > > > > > I have been reading up this chain

regarding Saturn. I have a few > > questions.> > > > > > 1. You have mentioned

that saturn is linked to the longevity of a > > relationship? what is the

source of this statement? esp so since > you > > havent mentioned the role of

Darapada? How can one come to a > > conclusion about various relationships one

may/maynot have without > > the proper study of darapada and the darakaraka?

Isnt marriage also > > a realtionship? again no mention of the Upapada, it;s

lord and the > > 2nd from Upa-pada. What about d9?> > > > > > 2.You have

mentioned Satrun and mean and selfish. Again, what is > > the source of this

blanket statement? When 2 people are fighting > and > > the crowrd sees on,

saturn punishes all 3. The 2 people fighting > and > > saturn punishes the

crowrd too for not trying to stop the fight? > > what does that tell you.

Instead of saying statements like mean and > > selfish, please understand that

saturn is only concenred with > > justice... and nothing else.> > > > > > 3.

Regarding the example you have quoted about this person > > checking the

partners sincerity, how can you say that just because > > of saturn? You

mention venus being the lord of ascendant and 7th > > house.you obviously meant

venus as lagna lord Or 7th house. Is that > > enough to have a nice

relationship? Surely an afflicted 2nd lord > > from Upa-pada will tell

something else.> > > > > > 4. Since you mention saturn being exalted in libra,

i would like > > to know why? it cant be just because libra is a house of

venus!> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Hari> > > > > > > > > ----- Original

Message ----- > > > farrukhnauman > > > vedic astrology > >

> Monday, September 02, 2002 10:46 PM> > > [vedic astrology]

Re: Interesting and unpredictable > > satrun?> > > > > > > > > You are right.

As far as the longevity of a relationship is > > > concerned, saturn is very

favorable. But you have to take under > > > consideration, other aspects.

Saturn is mean and selfish. When > > one > > > has a strong saturn, he/she

tends to be very mean and selfish. > > > Often, people with a strong saturn

try to either check their > > > partner's sincerity with their own psycho

ways or they just > > start > > > ignoring their partner when they are fed up

of him/her.> > > Only if venus, lord of ascendant and lord of seventh are in a

> > > favorable contact, then they can favor a nice relationship. > Moon > > >

also plays an important part. So, saturn alone is not at all a > > good > > >

sign for relationships. Venus has got so much influence on > > saturn, > > >

since saturn is exalted in its house, that it can change the > > whole > > >

scenario.> > > I hope this helps.> > > > > > Farrukh> > > --- In

vedic astrology, "Mohini Cox" <mohini@t...> wrote:> > > > Dearest list

members,> > > > > > > > Thank-your ,Faruknauman for your thoughts and

> > > experience .... let me> > > > then ask this...> > > > Since

you mentioned the topic of Saturn and it's (bad?)> > > influence on> > > >

relationships then I get a little confused ...from what I > have > > > read

it is> > > > mentioned for example that one need a strong and dignified > >

Saturn > > > in> > > > comparative charts to create longevity between the>

> > > couples'"love"...otherwise even though there may be good in > > the > >

> chart(S) in> > > > aspects to each other,there will not be longevity

between the > > > couples?.....> > > > -> > >

> "farrukhnauman" <farrukhnauman>> > > > To:

<vedic astrology>> > > > Monday, September 02, 2002 1:49 AM> > >

> [vedic astrology] Re: Interesting and unpredictable > > > satrun?>

> > > > > > > > > > > > I tell you one thing. Saturn is the greatest

malefic when > it > > > comes> > > > > to relationships. I've experienced

it all my life. Once I > > made a> > > > > chart of a person with libra

ascendant and he had an > exalted > > > saturn> > > > > in his first house

and venus was in 9th with mercury and > > jupiter > > > but> > > > > still

that person never had satisfaction from > relationships. > > > Infact,> > >

> > all of them failed. Mars was in third. Saturn was fully > > > aspecting

it.> > > > > If you consult books regarding the position of saturn in > >

5th, > > > 7th,> > > > > 10 th house, most of them will say that it is a

very > > unfavorable> > > > > position for saturn. I don't know the reason

but I can say > > one > > > thing> > > > > for sure and that is if you read

the biographies of the > great> > > > > unorthodox philosophers such as

voltaire, you'll come to > > know > > > that> > > > > he checked his wife's

sincerity and when negative results > > came > > > out,> > > > > he just ran

away from that place. Unorthodoxy in philosophy > > is> > > > > normally

caused by saturn, if not aspected by a strong > > jupiter.> > > > > Some

people say that saturn is like an old guy (abt 80yrs > > old). > > > So,> > >

> > this explains everything. That is why some texts say that if> > > > >

someone's saturn is strong then its quite possible that > > he'll go > > >

in> > > > > seclusion and make his own philosophy of life.> > > > > That is

all I know.> > > > > I hope this helps!> > > > > Farrukh> > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "Mohini Cox" <mohini@t...> > > wrote:> > > > > > Dear

members,> > > > > >> > > > > > Lots of interesting topics these

days!> > > > > >> > > > > > May I ask a question about Saturn and it's

seemingly > > > unpredictable> > > > > tendency?> > > > > >> > > > > >

When I was going through Sadi Sati....I was at the > > > height> > > >

> of my> > > > > > career and all seemed very good! Interestingly I thought> >

> > > wow...isn't this> > > > > > odd?....since Saturn is in my 6th house

aspected my Mars! > > (I > > > think> > > > > I may> > > > > > have asked

a questions about this a few weeks ago...the> > > > > Mars/Saturn aspect> > >

> > > in general...)> > > > > > Now that Saturn has been in my 12th

house and > > currently > > > in> > > > > my 1st> > > > > >

house.(Gemini)..oh yes !! NOW the problems have really> > > > >

started...from heart> > > > > > ach ...(relationship stuff)...to family

problems....long > > > distance> > > > > > travel..mild

....depression....(which from the Vedic > > standpoint > > > is> > > > >

not> > > > > > auspicious I have heard)...less satisfaction in the > >

career...> > > > > (although still> > > > > > working allot)> > > > > >

Would/Could Saturn create more havoc over the > > > ascendant?...than> > > >

> the> > > > > > moon?....> > > > > >> > > > > > as an aside...Birth

data...September 26,1958...23:27> > > > > (pm)...Montreal Canada> > > > > >

Thanking you all> > > > > > respectfully...MohiniMurti dd> > > > > >> > >

> > > -> > > > > > "swamyvk"

<swamyvk>> > > > > > <vedic astrology>> > > > > > Sent:

Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:12 PM> > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re:

The great malefic Saturn> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > Moon is in

Scorpio (23deg 58Min) in Jyestha Nakshatra > > ruled > > > by> > > > >

mercury> > > > > > >> > > > > > > vedic astrology, prashant

narang> > > > > <prashantnarang>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >

hi> > > > > > > > where is ur moon?> > > > > > > > prashant> > > > > > >

> --- swamyvk <swamyvk> wrote:> > > > > > > > > I have aquarius

ascendant with Saturn in the 12th> > > > > > > > > with ketu. I have> > > >

> > > > > mixed results as follows:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 1. In

1986, My father passed away during the first> > > > > > > > > Sade-saati (7

1/2> > > > > > > > > year period). But at the same time, I passed a> > > >

> > > > > competitive exam for> > > > > > > > > bank officers in india and

became a bank officer. I> > > > > > > > > was running> > > > > > > > >

Venus/Mars or Venus/Rahu then. Rahu is in my 6th> > > > > > > > > house.> > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 2. In 1990, I was running Venus/Saturn. I quit

my> > > > > > > > > job, and came to> > > > > > > > > the USA. It was a mix

of things. No job for 2 yrs,> > > > > > > > > but complete> > > > > > > > >

support from my B-I-L and sister to get re-educated.> > > > > > > > > I was

having a> > > > > > > > > good time, but I was TOTALLY DEPENDANT on someone

at> > > > > > > > > the age of 28.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > 3.

In 2000, I got promoted to a Manager's position.> > > > > > > > > I was

running> > > > > > > > > SUN/Saturn. I gave it up in one year due to> > > >

> > > > > increased tension a zero> > > > > > > > > support from the immediate

boss.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Also, Ever When Saturn was in Taurus

in 2000, I was> > > > > > > > > going through> > > > > > > > > hell. No

peace of mind. Anxiety etc etc. Now also it> > > > > > > > > is no better> >

> > > > > > > even though Saturn is in gemini. Hopefully this will> > > > >

> > > > get better.> > > > > > > > > Robert Koch had made an observation that

people with> > > > > > > > > Aquarius> > > > > > > > > ascendants were

going through hell at that time> > > > > > > > > (around 2000-2001)> > > >

> > > > >> > > > > > > > > I do believe that Saturn is the largest planetary>

> > > > > > > > force that makes> > > > > > > > > you pay for your karma in

the previous lives. It is> > > > > > > > > generally most> > > > > > > > >

benign for taurus and capricorn ascendants. But to> > > > > > > > > be a full

benefic> > > > > > > > > it must receive a benefic's rays, preferably> > > >

> > > > > Jupiter.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Venkatesh> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "farrukhnauman"> > > >

> > > > > <farrukhnauman>> > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > >

People often talk about saturn as if it is the> > > > > > > > > sound of

their death> > > > > > > > > > or sorrows in general. I've found saturn to be

one> > > > > > > > > of the strongest> > > > > > > > > > planets when it

comes to career advancement, fame,> > > > > > > > > higher education> > > >

> > > > > > and self-discipline provided the ascendant (lagna)> > > > > > > >

> is aries,> > > > > > > > > taurus,> > > > > > > > > > gemini, libra,

capricorn or aquarius. It'll take> > > > > > > > > me a long time to> > > >

> > > > > > quote examples of famous people who had a strong> > > > > > > > >

saturn but I can> > > > > > > > > > tell everyone this that as long as you've

got the> > > > > > > > > ascendants I> > > > > > > > > > mentioned before

and your saturn is in the angles> > > > > > > > > (except 4th> > > > > > >

> > house)> > > > > > > > > > or trines, you'll definitely rise very high

and> > > > > > > > > can also gain much> > > > > > > > > > fame. Don't be

afraid of this planet. The problem> > > > > > > > > with saturn is> > > > >

> > > > > that it doesn't have emotions itself and> > > > > > > > > therefore,

people with a> > > > > > > > > > strong saturn are liable to have failures in

love> > > > > > > > > and other> > > > > > > > > > emotional matters but

when it comes to career> > > > > > > > > advancement and fame,> > > > > > >

> > > then you can say that even only a strong saturn is> > > > > > > > >

enough to assure> > > > > > > > > > a great deal of success to you.> > > >

> > > > > > I'd definitely like to hear comments on this.> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > Farrukh> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Do You

?> > > > > > > > Finance - Get real-time stock quotes> > > > >

> > > http://finance.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > >

> > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > > > > > >>

> > > > > > Group info: vedic-> > > > >

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September 3, 2002

Jaya Jagannatha

Dear Mohini Murthi DD,

Dandavats! You have very succintly detailed the mood with which one approaches

vedic knowledge. The Lord advises in Srimad Gita that vedic knowledge can only

be gained by approaching a Guru with great submission and inquire respectfully

and out of the Guru's kindness, one obtains knowledge. This is so very true of

anything Vedic. Jyotisha, a Vedanga is to be approached in the same manner and

we will certainly be blessed by the parampara.

The story about saturn that I have heard ad infinitum since my childhood was

that Ravana was so very powerful that he had captured and bound all the

demigods in charge of planets and laid them face-down on the steps of his

throne. He used to step on them while ascending to his throne. Once the great

devotee Sage Narada came to his court and saw the plight of the planets. He

advised Ravana that he can cause greater hurt to the planets if he turned them

face-up as then he could step on their abdomen and also see their faces in

pain.Ravana did just that and that was the begining of his end.All the grahas

started aspecting him and cursing him as now they could see him.

Your title is also very apt-Shani is great in bringing sobriety.

Hare Krishna

Sudharsan

Mohini Cox wrote: