Ista Devta and Atheist - Gurus please do respond

[Guest guest]

A related question - I hope I get an answer this time - is: Since

Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an Ishta-Devata, be

they non-believers or believers in a different religion - Islam or

Christianity for example, how do they end up worshipping/showing

devotion to that devata? Does it only take Hindu mantras, yantras and

tantras to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there non-religion-

specific techniques as well? This line of thinking leads to many

questions, only some of which I am raising. The foremost question of

course is that religions that came after Judaism and Christianity

(and including them) hold strong to the notion of a single God, but

more importantly and in direct contradiction to Hinduism, completely

reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a well-meaning

spiritual person of such a religion would only end up

worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or single form of

God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this group, would be

the path of that person? Are you saying that since he would not be

specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would not be led to

final emancipation? Are people who are on the verge of Moksha only

born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to the above are "No",

there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching simple virtuosity

and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps working with

challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn areas) that is

independent of religious overtones, that effectively counts as what

in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific Ishta-Devata". I

really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean disrespect to anyone.

 

VAS

 

vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote:

> Hare Rama Krishna

>

> --

------------

>

> Dear Nomaveda,

> Everyone has an Istha Devata, whether they believe it or not is a

different matter.

> Best wishes, Visti.

> -

> Nomadeva Sharma

> vedic astrology

> Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

> RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and Atheist

>

>

> >

> >pvr108 [pvr@c...]

> >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM

>

> >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha. Its

> strongest occupant or

> >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant

> moksha. Rasi aspects

>

> How does this concept work for an atheist? Doesn't

> Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or an

> agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only seems to

> reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't help much.

>

>

> So, isn't that an overriding factor before we speak of

> Ishtadevata?

>

> Regards,

> Nomadeva

>

>

>

> News - Today's headlines

> http://news.

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

[Guest guest]

Vas:

 

I'm far from being a guru, but will attempt to answer your question.

Before I begin to answer your question, let me establish a couple of

things: 1) I'm a Hindu, 2) I'm extremely religiou.

 

Now, when the guru talk about worshipping the Ista Devta, they are

definitely talking about mantra and devotion to a certain god, at the

same time they are talking about karma (one's deed). I believe the

highest form of devotion and worship is performed by kind and noble

deeds rather than sitting before god and chanting his/her mantras.

 

A very learned man told me that my horsocope reflects that I've hurt

a young woman, if not in this life then in my prior life; hence, I

have multiple divorcees. In order to clean my Karma, I'm volunteering

my time at an organization for desitute women and I'm fasting on

Fridays and also fasting on Saturday (Guru Hari asked me to fast). --

I'm not sitting in front of god asking him to clean my karma. I

believe this addresses your question on "how do people of a different

faith worship their Ista-Deva?" My one like conclusion is your Karma

(deeds) are in fact your Dharma and your devotion toward god(may it

be a christian god or a hebrew god).

 

Now, let me answer your question on mantra, tantra, yantra not being

available in non-hindu faiths. Dear Vas, have you not seen elaborate

ceremonies being performed in the Vatican and the churches around the

world, have you heard about the Gregorina chants?--are these not the

christian form of mantras?

 

Have you not seen elaborate ceremonies in the the Hebrew religion?

Every other day I see on TV Jewish people standing in front of the

wailing wall and praying/chanting.--isn't this the Hebrew form of

mantras?

 

So Vas, if you're a Christian or a Jew, ask your spiritual adviser

for the Christian or Jewish form of mantras and continue your good

deeds. Well, there you have it--you have mantras for your Ista-Devta

(Jesus or Moses or Mohammend) and your good deeds are your Karma that

bring you closer to god and help you attain moksha.

 

Does this help? Have I answered your question? Thanks for not

attacking Hinduism and its polyathesim, your e-mail comes across as

that of a gentleman.

 

M.Desai

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent"

<vedicastrostudent> wrote:

> A related question - I hope I get an answer this time - is: Since

> Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an Ishta-Devata, be

> they non-believers or believers in a different religion - Islam or

> Christianity for example, how do they end up worshipping/showing

> devotion to that devata? Does it only take Hindu mantras, yantras

and

> tantras to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there non-religion-

> specific techniques as well? This line of thinking leads to many

> questions, only some of which I am raising. The foremost question

of

> course is that religions that came after Judaism and Christianity

> (and including them) hold strong to the notion of a single God, but

> more importantly and in direct contradiction to Hinduism,

completely

> reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a well-meaning

> spiritual person of such a religion would only end up

> worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or single form of

> God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this group, would

be

> the path of that person? Are you saying that since he would not be

> specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would not be led to

> final emancipation? Are people who are on the verge of Moksha only

> born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to the above

are "No",

> there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching simple virtuosity

> and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps working with

> challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn areas) that is

> independent of religious overtones, that effectively counts as what

> in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific Ishta-Devata".

I

> really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean disrespect to anyone.

>

> VAS

>

> vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote:

> > Hare Rama Krishna

> >

> >

--

> ------------

> >

> > Dear Nomaveda,

> > Everyone has an Istha Devata, whether they believe it or not is a

> different matter.

> > Best wishes, Visti.

> > -

> > Nomadeva Sharma

> > vedic astrology

> > Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

> > RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and Atheist

> >

> >

> > >

> > >pvr108 [pvr@c...]

> > >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM

> >

> > >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha. Its

> > strongest occupant or

> > >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant

> > moksha. Rasi aspects

> >

> > How does this concept work for an atheist? Doesn't

> > Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or an

> > agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only seems to

> > reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't help much.

> >

> >

> > So, isn't that an overriding factor before we speak of

> > Ishtadevata?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Nomadeva

> >

> >

> >

> > News - Today's headlines

> > http://news.

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

[Guest guest]

Hello MD,

Thanks for your post. I think we basically agree but I also think

you misunderstood where I was going. So let me clarify: First, I'm

actually a Hindu from India but living in the US so I have heard

several viewpoints and am simply presenting them to get some kind of

resolution in my mind.

 

More importantly, when I made the point about the mantras, yantras

and tantras of Hinduism, I did not mean to imply that Hinduism is

overfull of rituals and ceremonies (as compared to other religions),

as you seem to have understood. I was only highlighting the fact that

vedic astrology recognizes SEVERAL DISTINCT paths to Moksha using the

concept of Ishta-Devatas. In order to follow the path meant for you,

you must find your Ishta-Devata and worship that Devata using the

prescribed mantras, yantras and tantras. My point was that since

other religions do not even admit the possibility of multiple

deities, it automatically means that there cannot be MATCHING forms

of worship (to Ishta-Devata worship). So where does that leave them?

Can they not achieve moksha? Or are all souls on the verge of Moksha

born or led to the Hindu religion (like perhaps some of the very

learned members of this group e.g. Visti and Zoran) in order to

identify their Ishta-Devata and work toward achieving Moksha? Or like

you yourself point out, is Moksha simply (or not so simply) a matter

of erasing your bad karma through doing virtuous acts, like you are

obviously doing by helping destitute women and contributions/service

to the poor and needy. If it is, then why the emphasis on the worship

of an Ishta-Devata to achieve Moksha? Or is Ishta-Devata worship one

of many but perhaps the shortest path to Moksha? But then, that would

mean that Hinduism would perhaps be the fastest way to achieve it.

 

Hope the quandaries in my mind are clearer to you now

 

VAS

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:

> Vas:

>

> I'm far from being a guru, but will attempt to answer your

question.

> Before I begin to answer your question, let me establish a couple

of

> things: 1) I'm a Hindu, 2) I'm extremely religiou.

>

> Now, when the guru talk about worshipping the Ista Devta, they are

> definitely talking about mantra and devotion to a certain god, at

the

> same time they are talking about karma (one's deed). I believe the

> highest form of devotion and worship is performed by kind and noble

> deeds rather than sitting before god and chanting his/her mantras.

>

> A very learned man told me that my horsocope reflects that I've

hurt

> a young woman, if not in this life then in my prior life; hence, I

> have multiple divorcees. In order to clean my Karma, I'm

volunteering

> my time at an organization for desitute women and I'm fasting on

> Fridays and also fasting on Saturday (Guru Hari asked me to fast). -

-

> I'm not sitting in front of god asking him to clean my karma. I

> believe this addresses your question on "how do people of a

different

> faith worship their Ista-Deva?" My one like conclusion is your Karma

> (deeds) are in fact your Dharma and your devotion toward god(may it

> be a christian god or a hebrew god).

>

> Now, let me answer your question on mantra, tantra, yantra not

being

> available in non-hindu faiths. Dear Vas, have you not seen

elaborate

> ceremonies being performed in the Vatican and the churches around

the

> world, have you heard about the Gregorina chants?--are these not

the

> christian form of mantras?

>

> Have you not seen elaborate ceremonies in the the Hebrew religion?

> Every other day I see on TV Jewish people standing in front of the

> wailing wall and praying/chanting.--isn't this the Hebrew form of

> mantras?

>

> So Vas, if you're a Christian or a Jew, ask your spiritual adviser

> for the Christian or Jewish form of mantras and continue your good

> deeds. Well, there you have it--you have mantras for your Ista-

Devta

> (Jesus or Moses or Mohammend) and your good deeds are your Karma

that

> bring you closer to god and help you attain moksha.

>

> Does this help? Have I answered your question? Thanks for not

> attacking Hinduism and its polyathesim, your e-mail comes across as

> that of a gentleman.

>

> M.Desai

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent"

> <vedicastrostudent> wrote:

> > A related question - I hope I get an answer this time - is: Since

> > Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an Ishta-Devata,

be

> > they non-believers or believers in a different religion - Islam

or

> > Christianity for example, how do they end up worshipping/showing

> > devotion to that devata? Does it only take Hindu mantras, yantras

> and

> > tantras to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there non-religion-

> > specific techniques as well? This line of thinking leads to many

> > questions, only some of which I am raising. The foremost question

> of

> > course is that religions that came after Judaism and Christianity

> > (and including them) hold strong to the notion of a single God,

but

> > more importantly and in direct contradiction to Hinduism,

> completely

> > reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a well-meaning

> > spiritual person of such a religion would only end up

> > worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or single form of

> > God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this group, would

> be

> > the path of that person? Are you saying that since he would not

be

> > specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would not be led to

> > final emancipation? Are people who are on the verge of Moksha

only

> > born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to the above

> are "No",

> > there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching simple

virtuosity

> > and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps working with

> > challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn areas) that is

> > independent of religious overtones, that effectively counts as

what

> > in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific Ishta-

Devata".

> I

> > really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean disrespect to anyone.

> >

> > VAS

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote:

> > > Hare Rama Krishna

> > >

> > > -------------------------------

--

> --

> > ------------

> > >

> > > Dear Nomaveda,

> > > Everyone has an Istha Devata, whether they believe it or not is

a

> > different matter.

> > > Best wishes, Visti.

> > > -

> > > Nomadeva Sharma

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

> > > RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and Atheist

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > >pvr108 [pvr@c...]

> > > >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM

> > >

> > > >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha. Its

> > > strongest occupant or

> > > >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant

> > > moksha. Rasi aspects

> > >

> > > How does this concept work for an atheist? Doesn't

> > > Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or an

> > > agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only seems to

> > > reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't help much.

> > >

> > >

> > > So, isn't that an overriding factor before we speak of

> > > Ishtadevata?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Nomadeva

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > News - Today's headlines

> > > http://news.

> > >

> > > Sponsor

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Group info: vedic-

> astrology/info.html

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Terms of

> > Service.

[Guest guest]

Vas:

 

After reading your mail, this I feel is your central question--"why

emphasis on Ista-Devta to achieve Moksha and is worship of Ista-Devta

the shortest way to moksha?"

 

My answer to you is not an interpretation of Hindu scripture, but my

personal opinion.

 

Firstly, I feel that Ista-Devta is just your PERSONAL GOD. Worship of

Ista-Devta neither shortens nor extends the "time needed" for moksha.

I feel that if I were to worship my Ista-Devata, I'd expereience most

joy, peace and serenity.

 

Secondly, I feel there is no "emphasis" on Ista-Devta. I'm a Hindu

and I heard the concept of Ista-Devta just a few days back on this

board. When I go to my parents' home in India, I see all kinds of

gods being worshipped, not just the Ista-Devta.

 

Thridly, the act of worship is a misnomer--standing in front of god,

putting two hands together and praying is not worship. Your true

worship is your karma (your deeds). You could be a multi-millioner

and you could be donating millions for building of temples, but if

your Karma (deeds) are horrible, you're definitely going to be re-

born.

 

I feel when Visti and Hari and Sanjay are calculating the Ista-Devta,

they're calculating someone's personal god/diety and nothing more,

nothing less.

 

I'm too young to fully understand all these concepts, I'm hoping a

learned guru participates in this discussion.

 

MD

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent"

<vedicastrostudent> wrote:

> Hello MD,

> Thanks for your post. I think we basically agree but I also think

> you misunderstood where I was going. So let me clarify: First, I'm

> actually a Hindu from India but living in the US so I have heard

> several viewpoints and am simply presenting them to get some kind

of

> resolution in my mind.

>

> More importantly, when I made the point about the mantras, yantras

> and tantras of Hinduism, I did not mean to imply that Hinduism is

> overfull of rituals and ceremonies (as compared to other

religions),

> as you seem to have understood. I was only highlighting the fact

that

> vedic astrology recognizes SEVERAL DISTINCT paths to Moksha using

the

> concept of Ishta-Devatas. In order to follow the path meant for

you,

> you must find your Ishta-Devata and worship that Devata using the

> prescribed mantras, yantras and tantras. My point was that since

> other religions do not even admit the possibility of multiple

> deities, it automatically means that there cannot be MATCHING forms

> of worship (to Ishta-Devata worship). So where does that leave

them?

> Can they not achieve moksha? Or are all souls on the verge of

Moksha

> born or led to the Hindu religion (like perhaps some of the very

> learned members of this group e.g. Visti and Zoran) in order to

> identify their Ishta-Devata and work toward achieving Moksha? Or

like

> you yourself point out, is Moksha simply (or not so simply) a

matter

> of erasing your bad karma through doing virtuous acts, like you are

> obviously doing by helping destitute women and

contributions/service

> to the poor and needy. If it is, then why the emphasis on the

worship

> of an Ishta-Devata to achieve Moksha? Or is Ishta-Devata worship

one

> of many but perhaps the shortest path to Moksha? But then, that

would

> mean that Hinduism would perhaps be the fastest way to achieve it.

>

> Hope the quandaries in my mind are clearer to you now

>

> VAS

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:

> > Vas:

> >

> > I'm far from being a guru, but will attempt to answer your

> question.

> > Before I begin to answer your question, let me establish a couple

> of

> > things: 1) I'm a Hindu, 2) I'm extremely religiou.

> >

> > Now, when the guru talk about worshipping the Ista Devta, they

are

> > definitely talking about mantra and devotion to a certain god, at

> the

> > same time they are talking about karma (one's deed). I believe

the

> > highest form of devotion and worship is performed by kind and

noble

> > deeds rather than sitting before god and chanting his/her mantras.

> >

> > A very learned man told me that my horsocope reflects that I've

> hurt

> > a young woman, if not in this life then in my prior life; hence,

I

> > have multiple divorcees. In order to clean my Karma, I'm

> volunteering

> > my time at an organization for desitute women and I'm fasting on

> > Fridays and also fasting on Saturday (Guru Hari asked me to

fast). -

> -

> > I'm not sitting in front of god asking him to clean my karma. I

> > believe this addresses your question on "how do people of a

> different

> > faith worship their Ista-Deva?" My one like conclusion is your

Karma

> > (deeds) are in fact your Dharma and your devotion toward god(may

it

> > be a christian god or a hebrew god).

> >

> > Now, let me answer your question on mantra, tantra, yantra not

> being

> > available in non-hindu faiths. Dear Vas, have you not seen

> elaborate

> > ceremonies being performed in the Vatican and the churches around

> the

> > world, have you heard about the Gregorina chants?--are these not

> the

> > christian form of mantras?

> >

> > Have you not seen elaborate ceremonies in the the Hebrew

religion?

> > Every other day I see on TV Jewish people standing in front of

the

> > wailing wall and praying/chanting.--isn't this the Hebrew form of

> > mantras?

> >

> > So Vas, if you're a Christian or a Jew, ask your spiritual

adviser

> > for the Christian or Jewish form of mantras and continue your

good

> > deeds. Well, there you have it--you have mantras for your Ista-

> Devta

> > (Jesus or Moses or Mohammend) and your good deeds are your Karma

> that

> > bring you closer to god and help you attain moksha.

> >

> > Does this help? Have I answered your question? Thanks for not

> > attacking Hinduism and its polyathesim, your e-mail comes across

as

> > that of a gentleman.

> >

> > M.Desai

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent"

> > <vedicastrostudent> wrote:

> > > A related question - I hope I get an answer this time - is:

Since

> > > Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an Ishta-Devata,

> be

> > > they non-believers or believers in a different religion - Islam

> or

> > > Christianity for example, how do they end up

worshipping/showing

> > > devotion to that devata? Does it only take Hindu mantras,

yantras

> > and

> > > tantras to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there non-religion-

> > > specific techniques as well? This line of thinking leads to

many

> > > questions, only some of which I am raising. The foremost

question

> > of

> > > course is that religions that came after Judaism and

Christianity

> > > (and including them) hold strong to the notion of a single God,

> but

> > > more importantly and in direct contradiction to Hinduism,

> > completely

> > > reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a well-meaning

> > > spiritual person of such a religion would only end up

> > > worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or single form

of

> > > God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this group,

would

> > be

> > > the path of that person? Are you saying that since he would not

> be

> > > specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would not be led

to

> > > final emancipation? Are people who are on the verge of Moksha

> only

> > > born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to the above

> > are "No",

> > > there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching simple

> virtuosity

> > > and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps working with

> > > challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn areas) that is

> > > independent of religious overtones, that effectively counts as

> what

> > > in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific Ishta-

> Devata".

> > I

> > > really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean disrespect to

anyone.

> > >

> > > VAS

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote:

> > > > Hare Rama Krishna

> > > >

> > > > -----------------------------

--

> --

> > --

> > > ------------

> > > >

> > > > Dear Nomaveda,

> > > > Everyone has an Istha Devata, whether they believe it or not

is

> a

> > > different matter.

> > > > Best wishes, Visti.

> > > > -

> > > > Nomadeva Sharma

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

> > > > RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and Atheist

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >pvr108 [pvr@c...]

> > > > >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM

> > > >

> > > > >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha. Its

> > > > strongest occupant or

> > > > >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant

> > > > moksha. Rasi aspects

> > > >

> > > > How does this concept work for an atheist? Doesn't

> > > > Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or an

> > > > agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only seems to

> > > > reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't help much.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > So, isn't that an overriding factor before we speak of

> > > > Ishtadevata?

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Nomadeva

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > News - Today's headlines

> > > > http://news.

> > > >

> > > > Sponsor

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Group info: vedic-

> > astrology/info.html

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

@e...

> > > >

> > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Terms of

> > > Service.

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Vas,

Actually many religions do have some different ways of praying to the allmighty

God. Also the catholics have The Mother, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And then

there are many saints and angels etc. They admit as well that all these forms

emanate from God.

Some parts of the the Protestant fraction have more distinct beliefs, and some

look alot like the Vaishnava culture. i.e. no worship of the Mother, or angels.

Just Father, Son and Holy Spirit.. Some only focus on the Son or Holy spirit,

etc.

 

Moving to American-Indian culture, they believe in the Gods of nature, such as

the wolf, the eagle, the bear, etc. Southern parts of America differ abit.

 

Hence we have to be flexible, and adjust the deities depending on the beliefs.

If in doubt, tell the person to pray to God and to offer the element indicated

by the deity. i.e. Mars & Sun = Agni(fire), Moon and Venus = Jala(liquids,

sweets), Mercury = Prithvi(smells/incense). Jupiter = Akasha(flowers are good).

Saturn = Vayu(clean and beutify/ornaments).

 

So go ahead and make the person worship.

Best wishes, Visti.

 

-

vedicastrostudent

vedic astrology

Friday, September 13, 2002 11:19 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: Ista Devta and Atheist - Gurus please do respond

Hello MD,Thanks for your post. I think we basically agree but I also think you

misunderstood where I was going. So let me clarify: First, I'm actually a Hindu

from India but living in the US so I have heard several viewpoints and am simply

presenting them to get some kind of resolution in my mind. More importantly,

when I made the point about the mantras, yantras and tantras of Hinduism, I did

not mean to imply that Hinduism is overfull of rituals and ceremonies (as

compared to other religions), as you seem to have understood. I was only

highlighting the fact that vedic astrology recognizes SEVERAL DISTINCT paths to

Moksha using the concept of Ishta-Devatas. In order to follow the path meant for

you, you must find your Ishta-Devata and worship that Devata using the

prescribed mantras, yantras and tantras. My point was that since other

religions do not even admit the possibility of multiple deities, it

automatically means that there cannot be MATCHING forms of worship (to

Ishta-Devata worship). So where does that leave them? Can they not achieve

moksha? Or are all souls on the verge of Moksha born or led to the Hindu

religion (like perhaps some of the very learned members of this group e.g.

Visti and Zoran) in order to identify their Ishta-Devata and work toward

achieving Moksha? Or like you yourself point out, is Moksha simply (or not so

simply) a matter of erasing your bad karma through doing virtuous acts, like

you are obviously doing by helping destitute women and contributions/service to

the poor and needy. If it is, then why the emphasis on the worship of an

Ishta-Devata to achieve Moksha? Or is Ishta-Devata worship one of many but

perhaps the shortest path to Moksha? But then, that would mean that Hinduism

would perhaps be the fastest way to achieve it.Hope the quandaries in my mind

are clearer to you nowVASvedic astrology, "monmuk111"

<monmuk111> wrote:> Vas:> > I'm far from being a guru, but will attempt to

answer your question. > Before I begin to answer your question, let me establish

a couple of > things: 1) I'm a Hindu, 2) I'm extremely religiou.> > Now, when

the guru talk about worshipping the Ista Devta, they are > definitely talking

about mantra and devotion to a certain god, at the > same time they are talking

about karma (one's deed). I believe the > highest form of devotion and worship

is performed by kind and noble > deeds rather than sitting before god and

chanting his/her mantras.> > A very learned man told me that my horsocope

reflects that I've hurt > a young woman, if not in this life then in my prior

life; hence, I > have multiple divorcees. In order to clean my Karma, I'm

volunteering > my time at an organization for desitute women and I'm fasting on

> Fridays and also fasting on Saturday (Guru Hari asked me to fast). -- > I'm

not sitting in front of god asking him to clean my karma. I > believe this

addresses your question on "how do people of a different > faith worship their

Ista-Deva?" My one like conclusion is your Karma> (deeds) are in fact your

Dharma and your devotion toward god(may it > be a christian god or a hebrew

god).> > Now, let me answer your question on mantra, tantra, yantra not being >

available in non-hindu faiths. Dear Vas, have you not seen elaborate >

ceremonies being performed in the Vatican and the churches around the > world,

have you heard about the Gregorina chants?--are these not the > christian form

of mantras?> > Have you not seen elaborate ceremonies in the the Hebrew

religion? > Every other day I see on TV Jewish people standing in front of the

> wailing wall and praying/chanting.--isn't this the Hebrew form of > mantras?>

> So Vas, if you're a Christian or a Jew, ask your spiritual adviser > for the

Christian or Jewish form of mantras and continue your good > deeds. Well, there

you have it--you have mantras for your Ista-Devta > (Jesus or Moses or

Mohammend) and your good deeds are your Karma that > bring you closer to god

and help you attain moksha.> > Does this help? Have I answered your question?

Thanks for not > attacking Hinduism and its polyathesim, your e-mail comes

across as > that of a gentleman. > > M.Desai> > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > <vedicastrostudent> wrote:> >

A related question - I hope I get an answer this time - is: Since > > Visti

(quite logically) says that everyone has an Ishta-Devata, be > > they

non-believers or believers in a different religion - Islam or > > Christianity

for example, how do they end up worshipping/showing > > devotion to that

devata? Does it only take Hindu mantras, yantras > and > > tantras to worship

your Ishta-Devata, or are there non-religion-> > specific techniques as well?

This line of thinking leads to many > > questions, only some of which I am

raising. The foremost question > of > > course is that religions that came

after Judaism and Christianity > > (and including them) hold strong to the

notion of a single God, but > > more importantly and in direct contradiction to

Hinduism, > completely > > reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a

well-meaning > > spiritual person of such a religion would only end up > >

worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or single form of > > God.

What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this group, would > be > > the path

of that person? Are you saying that since he would not be > > specifically

worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would not be led to > > final emancipation? Are

people who are on the verge of Moksha only > > born into the Hindu religion? If

your answers to the above > are "No", > > there must be a way of worship

(perhaps preaching simple virtuosity > > and love, perhaps service to the poor,

perhaps working with > > challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn areas)

that is > > independent of religious overtones, that effectively counts as what

> > in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific Ishta-Devata". > I > >

really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean disrespect to anyone.> > > > VAS >

> > > vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote:> > >

Hare Rama Krishna> > > > > >

> --> >

------------> > > > > > Dear Nomaveda,> > > Everyone has an Istha Devata,

whether they believe it or not is a > > different matter.> > > Best wishes,

Visti.> > > - > > > Nomadeva Sharma > > >

vedic astrology > > > Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM> > >

RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and Atheist> > > > > > > > >

>> > > >pvr108 [pvr@c...]> > >

>Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM> > > > > > >The 12th from

karakamsa stands for moksha. Its> > > strongest occupant or > > > >lord

shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant> > > moksha. Rasi aspects > > > >

> > How does this concept work for an atheist? Doesn't> > > Rahu in the 9th

house make one an atheist or an> > > agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction

only seems to> > > reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't help much.> >

> > > > > > > So, isn't that an overriding factor before we speak of> > >

Ishtadevata?> > > > > > Regards,> > > Nomadeva> > > > > >

> > > > > >

News - Today's headlines> > > http://news.> > > > > >

Sponsor > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > > > > > Group info:

vedic-> astrology/info.html> > > > > > To

UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat

|| Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > Your use of

is subject to the Terms of > > Service.Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

 

[Guest guest]

Vyam Vyaasadevaaya Namah

Dear MD,

When you were blasted into existance, you were so, due to a strong desire on

your souls part. The soul wanted to achieve something, and this is part of the

reason for everyones rebirth(apart from the need to atone sins).

This achievement is personal and sometimes involves very harsh lessons where we

have to learn some truths, which will help us advance and move towards God.

 

The worshp of the Istha Devata helps us atone for these things easier, and gives

us all the answers to our rebirth. Naturally ones actions will be colored by

this worship, and hence you are in a way right about our actions being more

important.. Yet i find realisation/enlightenment more important.

 

Actually the Istha Devata is Maha Vishnu, but only rarely are people able to

see/understand this clearly.. Personal deity? Yes indeed. This worship leads to

Moksha eventually, by helping us understand the lessons we are put through in

life.

 

Best wishes, Visti.

-

monmuk111

vedic astrology

Friday, September 13, 2002 11:45 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: Ista Devta and Atheist - Gurus please do respond

Vas:After reading your mail, this I feel is your central question--"why emphasis

on Ista-Devta to achieve Moksha and is worship of Ista-Devta the shortest way to

moksha?"My answer to you is not an interpretation of Hindu scripture, but my

personal opinion.Firstly, I feel that Ista-Devta is just your PERSONAL GOD.

Worship of Ista-Devta neither shortens nor extends the "time needed" for

moksha. I feel that if I were to worship my Ista-Devata, I'd expereience most

joy, peace and serenity.Secondly, I feel there is no "emphasis" on Ista-Devta.

I'm a Hindu and I heard the concept of Ista-Devta just a few days back on this

board. When I go to my parents' home in India, I see all kinds of gods being

worshipped, not just the Ista-Devta.Thridly, the act of worship is a

misnomer--standing in front of god, putting two hands together and praying is

not worship. Your true worship is your karma (your deeds). You could be a

multi-millioner and you could be donating millions for building of temples, but

if your Karma (deeds) are horrible, you're definitely going to be re-born.I feel

when Visti and Hari and Sanjay are calculating the Ista-Devta, they're

calculating someone's personal god/diety and nothing more, nothing less.I'm too

young to fully understand all these concepts, I'm hoping a learned guru

participates in this discussion.MDvedic astrology,

"vedicastrostudent" <vedicastrostudent> wrote:> Hello MD,> Thanks for

your post. I think we basically agree but I also think > you misunderstood

where I was going. So let me clarify: First, I'm > actually a Hindu from India

but living in the US so I have heard > several viewpoints and am simply

presenting them to get some kind of > resolution in my mind. > > More

importantly, when I made the point about the mantras, yantras > and tantras of

Hinduism, I did not mean to imply that Hinduism is > overfull of rituals and

ceremonies (as compared to other religions), > as you seem to have understood.

I was only highlighting the fact that > vedic astrology recognizes SEVERAL

DISTINCT paths to Moksha using the > concept of Ishta-Devatas. In order to

follow the path meant for you, > you must find your Ishta-Devata and worship

that Devata using the > prescribed mantras, yantras and tantras. My point was

that since > other religions do not even admit the possibility of multiple >

deities, it automatically means that there cannot be MATCHING forms > of

worship (to Ishta-Devata worship). So where does that leave them? > Can they

not achieve moksha? Or are all souls on the verge of Moksha > born or led to

the Hindu religion (like perhaps some of the very > learned members of this

group e.g. Visti and Zoran) in order to > identify their Ishta-Devata and work

toward achieving Moksha? Or like > you yourself point out, is Moksha simply (or

not so simply) a matter > of erasing your bad karma through doing virtuous acts,

like you are > obviously doing by helping destitute women and

contributions/service > to the poor and needy. If it is, then why the emphasis

on the worship > of an Ishta-Devata to achieve Moksha? Or is Ishta-Devata

worship one > of many but perhaps the shortest path to Moksha? But then, that

would > mean that Hinduism would perhaps be the fastest way to achieve it.> >

Hope the quandaries in my mind are clearer to you now> > VAS> > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:> > Vas:> > > > I'm

far from being a guru, but will attempt to answer your > question. > > Before I

begin to answer your question, let me establish a couple > of > > things: 1) I'm

a Hindu, 2) I'm extremely religiou.> > > > Now, when the guru talk about

worshipping the Ista Devta, they are > > definitely talking about mantra and

devotion to a certain god, at > the > > same time they are talking about karma

(one's deed). I believe the > > highest form of devotion and worship is

performed by kind and noble > > deeds rather than sitting before god and

chanting his/her mantras.> > > > A very learned man told me that my horsocope

reflects that I've > hurt > > a young woman, if not in this life then in my

prior life; hence, I > > have multiple divorcees. In order to clean my Karma,

I'm > volunteering > > my time at an organization for desitute women and I'm

fasting on > > Fridays and also fasting on Saturday (Guru Hari asked me to

fast). -> - > > I'm not sitting in front of god asking him to clean my karma. I

> > believe this addresses your question on "how do people of a > different > >

faith worship their Ista-Deva?" My one like conclusion is your Karma> > (deeds)

are in fact your Dharma and your devotion toward god(may it > > be a christian

god or a hebrew god).> > > > Now, let me answer your question on mantra,

tantra, yantra not > being > > available in non-hindu faiths. Dear Vas, have

you not seen > elaborate > > ceremonies being performed in the Vatican and the

churches around > the > > world, have you heard about the Gregorina

chants?--are these not > the > > christian form of mantras?> > > > Have you not

seen elaborate ceremonies in the the Hebrew religion? > > Every other day I see

on TV Jewish people standing in front of the > > wailing wall and

praying/chanting.--isn't this the Hebrew form of > > mantras?> > > > So Vas, if

you're a Christian or a Jew, ask your spiritual adviser > > for the Christian or

Jewish form of mantras and continue your good > > deeds. Well, there you have

it--you have mantras for your Ista-> Devta > > (Jesus or Moses or Mohammend)

and your good deeds are your Karma > that > > bring you closer to god and help

you attain moksha.> > > > Does this help? Have I answered your question? Thanks

for not > > attacking Hinduism and its polyathesim, your e-mail comes across as

> > that of a gentleman. > > > > M.Desai> > > > > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > > <vedicastrostudent> wrote:>

> > A related question - I hope I get an answer this time - is: Since > > >

Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an Ishta-Devata, > be > > > they

non-believers or believers in a different religion - Islam > or > > >

Christianity for example, how do they end up worshipping/showing > > > devotion

to that devata? Does it only take Hindu mantras, yantras > > and > > > tantras

to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there non-religion-> > > specific

techniques as well? This line of thinking leads to many > > > questions, only

some of which I am raising. The foremost question > > of > > > course is that

religions that came after Judaism and Christianity > > > (and including them)

hold strong to the notion of a single God, > but > > > more importantly and in

direct contradiction to Hinduism, > > completely > > > reject multiple forms or

deities. Consequently, a well-meaning > > > spiritual person of such a religion

would only end up > > > worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or

single form of > > > God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this

group, would > > be > > > the path of that person? Are you saying that since he

would not > be > > > specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would not be

led to > > > final emancipation? Are people who are on the verge of Moksha >

only > > > born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to the above > > are

"No", > > > there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching simple >

virtuosity > > > and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps working with >

> > challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn areas) that is > > >

independent of religious overtones, that effectively counts as > what > > > in

Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific Ishta-> Devata". > > I > > >

really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean disrespect to anyone.> > > > > >

VAS > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...>

wrote:> > > > Hare Rama Krishna> > > > > > > >

-------------------------------> --> > --> > >

------------> > > > > > > > Dear Nomaveda,> > > > Everyone has an Istha Devata,

whether they believe it or not is > a > > > different matter.> > > > Best

wishes, Visti.> > > > - > > > > Nomadeva

Sharma > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Friday, September 13,

2002 10:26 AM> > > > RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and Atheist> >

> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >pvr108

[pvr@c...]> > > > >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM> > > > >

> > > >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha. Its> > > > strongest

occupant or > > > > >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant> > > >

moksha. Rasi aspects > > > > > > > > How does this concept work for an

atheist? Doesn't> > > > Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or an> > >

> agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only seems to> > > > reduce the

tone of disapproval, but doesn't help much.> > > > > > > > > > > > So, isn't

that an overriding factor before we speak of> > > > Ishtadevata?> > > > > > >

> Regards,> > > > Nomadeva> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> News - Today's headlines> > > > http://news.> > > > > > >

> Sponsor > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > > > > > > > Group info:

vedic-> > astrology/info.html> > > > > > > > To

UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || Om Tat

Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > Your use of

is subject to the Terms of > > > Service.Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Visti:

 

You're making this very confusing for me. I thought we are born to

pay for prior-life sins and the soul doesn't have any CHOICE over it--

if you live a good life, you attain moksha and become one with god,

if you live a bad life, god kicks you back to earth to suffer for

your sins.

 

Now, you say that the Soul has a choice. If Soul has a choice, than

is Soul consious? I though Soul and consciousness are two different

things.

 

Let me explain what I'm trying to say with an example. I love Scotch

whiskey, and my soul want to ACHIEVE the enjoyment of more whiskey,

does my soul have a CHOICE to be re-born just so that I can enjoy

more whiskey? Thanks.

 

MD

 

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote:

> Vyam Vyaasadevaaya Namah

>

> --

------------

>

> Dear MD,

> When you were blasted into existance, you were so, due to a strong

desire on your souls part. The soul wanted to achieve something, and

this is part of the reason for everyones rebirth(apart from the need

to atone sins).

> This achievement is personal and sometimes involves very harsh

lessons where we have to learn some truths, which will help us

advance and move towards God.

>

> The worshp of the Istha Devata helps us atone for these things

easier, and gives us all the answers to our rebirth. Naturally ones

actions will be colored by this worship, and hence you are in a way

right about our actions being more important.. Yet i find

realisation/enlightenment more important.

>

> Actually the Istha Devata is Maha Vishnu, but only rarely are

people able to see/understand this clearly.. Personal deity? Yes

indeed. This worship leads to Moksha eventually, by helping us

understand the lessons we are put through in life.

>

> Best wishes, Visti.

> -

> monmuk111

> vedic astrology

> Friday, September 13, 2002 11:45 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: Ista Devta and Atheist - Gurus

please do respond

>

>

> Vas:

>

> After reading your mail, this I feel is your central question--

"why

> emphasis on Ista-Devta to achieve Moksha and is worship of Ista-

Devta

> the shortest way to moksha?"

>

> My answer to you is not an interpretation of Hindu scripture, but

my

> personal opinion.

>

> Firstly, I feel that Ista-Devta is just your PERSONAL GOD.

Worship of

> Ista-Devta neither shortens nor extends the "time needed" for

moksha.

> I feel that if I were to worship my Ista-Devata, I'd expereience

most

> joy, peace and serenity.

>

> Secondly, I feel there is no "emphasis" on Ista-Devta. I'm a

Hindu

> and I heard the concept of Ista-Devta just a few days back on

this

> board. When I go to my parents' home in India, I see all kinds of

> gods being worshipped, not just the Ista-Devta.

>

> Thridly, the act of worship is a misnomer--standing in front of

god,

> putting two hands together and praying is not worship. Your true

> worship is your karma (your deeds). You could be a multi-

millioner

> and you could be donating millions for building of temples, but

if

> your Karma (deeds) are horrible, you're definitely going to be re-

> born.

>

> I feel when Visti and Hari and Sanjay are calculating the Ista-

Devta,

> they're calculating someone's personal god/diety and nothing

more,

> nothing less.

>

> I'm too young to fully understand all these concepts, I'm hoping

a

> learned guru participates in this discussion.

>

> MD

>

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent"

> <vedicastrostudent> wrote:

> > Hello MD,

> > Thanks for your post. I think we basically agree but I also

think

> > you misunderstood where I was going. So let me clarify: First,

I'm

> > actually a Hindu from India but living in the US so I have

heard

> > several viewpoints and am simply presenting them to get some

kind

> of

> > resolution in my mind.

> >

> > More importantly, when I made the point about the mantras,

yantras

> > and tantras of Hinduism, I did not mean to imply that Hinduism

is

> > overfull of rituals and ceremonies (as compared to other

> religions),

> > as you seem to have understood. I was only highlighting the

fact

> that

> > vedic astrology recognizes SEVERAL DISTINCT paths to Moksha

using

> the

> > concept of Ishta-Devatas. In order to follow the path meant for

> you,

> > you must find your Ishta-Devata and worship that Devata using

the

> > prescribed mantras, yantras and tantras. My point was that

since

> > other religions do not even admit the possibility of multiple

> > deities, it automatically means that there cannot be MATCHING

forms

> > of worship (to Ishta-Devata worship). So where does that leave

> them?

> > Can they not achieve moksha? Or are all souls on the verge of

> Moksha

> > born or led to the Hindu religion (like perhaps some of the

very

> > learned members of this group e.g. Visti and Zoran) in order to

> > identify their Ishta-Devata and work toward achieving Moksha?

Or

> like

> > you yourself point out, is Moksha simply (or not so simply) a

> matter

> > of erasing your bad karma through doing virtuous acts, like you

are

> > obviously doing by helping destitute women and

> contributions/service

> > to the poor and needy. If it is, then why the emphasis on the

> worship

> > of an Ishta-Devata to achieve Moksha? Or is Ishta-Devata

worship

> one

> > of many but perhaps the shortest path to Moksha? But then, that

> would

> > mean that Hinduism would perhaps be the fastest way to achieve

it.

> >

> > Hope the quandaries in my mind are clearer to you now

> >

> > VAS

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote:

> > > Vas:

> > >

> > > I'm far from being a guru, but will attempt to answer your

> > question.

> > > Before I begin to answer your question, let me establish a

couple

> > of

> > > things: 1) I'm a Hindu, 2) I'm extremely religiou.

> > >

> > > Now, when the guru talk about worshipping the Ista Devta,

they

> are

> > > definitely talking about mantra and devotion to a certain

god, at

> > the

> > > same time they are talking about karma (one's deed). I

believe

> the

> > > highest form of devotion and worship is performed by kind and

> noble

> > > deeds rather than sitting before god and chanting his/her

mantras.

> > >

> > > A very learned man told me that my horsocope reflects that

I've

> > hurt

> > > a young woman, if not in this life then in my prior life;

hence,

> I

> > > have multiple divorcees. In order to clean my Karma, I'm

> > volunteering

> > > my time at an organization for desitute women and I'm fasting

on

> > > Fridays and also fasting on Saturday (Guru Hari asked me to

> fast). -

> > -

> > > I'm not sitting in front of god asking him to clean my karma.

I

> > > believe this addresses your question on "how do people of a

> > different

> > > faith worship their Ista-Deva?" My one like conclusion is

your

> Karma

> > > (deeds) are in fact your Dharma and your devotion toward god

(may

> it

> > > be a christian god or a hebrew god).

> > >

> > > Now, let me answer your question on mantra, tantra, yantra

not

> > being

> > > available in non-hindu faiths. Dear Vas, have you not seen

> > elaborate

> > > ceremonies being performed in the Vatican and the churches

around

> > the

> > > world, have you heard about the Gregorina chants?--are these

not

> > the

> > > christian form of mantras?

> > >

> > > Have you not seen elaborate ceremonies in the the Hebrew

> religion?

> > > Every other day I see on TV Jewish people standing in front

of

> the

> > > wailing wall and praying/chanting.--isn't this the Hebrew

form of

> > > mantras?

> > >

> > > So Vas, if you're a Christian or a Jew, ask your spiritual

> adviser

> > > for the Christian or Jewish form of mantras and continue your

> good

> > > deeds. Well, there you have it--you have mantras for your

Ista-

> > Devta

> > > (Jesus or Moses or Mohammend) and your good deeds are your

Karma

> > that

> > > bring you closer to god and help you attain moksha.

> > >

> > > Does this help? Have I answered your question? Thanks for not

> > > attacking Hinduism and its polyathesim, your e-mail comes

across

> as

> > > that of a gentleman.

> > >

> > > M.Desai

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent"

> > > <vedicastrostudent> wrote:

> > > > A related question - I hope I get an answer this time - is:

> Since

> > > > Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an Ishta-

Devata,

> > be

> > > > they non-believers or believers in a different religion -

Islam

> > or

> > > > Christianity for example, how do they end up

> worshipping/showing

> > > > devotion to that devata? Does it only take Hindu mantras,

> yantras

> > > and

> > > > tantras to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there non-

religion-

> > > > specific techniques as well? This line of thinking leads to

> many

> > > > questions, only some of which I am raising. The foremost

> question

> > > of

> > > > course is that religions that came after Judaism and

> Christianity

> > > > (and including them) hold strong to the notion of a single

God,

> > but

> > > > more importantly and in direct contradiction to Hinduism,

> > > completely

> > > > reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a well-

meaning

> > > > spiritual person of such a religion would only end up

> > > > worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or single

form

> of

> > > > God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this group,

> would

> > > be

> > > > the path of that person? Are you saying that since he would

not

> > be

> > > > specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would not be

led

> to

> > > > final emancipation? Are people who are on the verge of

Moksha

> > only

> > > > born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to the above

> > > are "No",

> > > > there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching simple

> > virtuosity

> > > > and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps working with

> > > > challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn areas)

that is

> > > > independent of religious overtones, that effectively counts

as

> > what

> > > > in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific Ishta-

> > Devata".

> > > I

> > > > really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean disrespect to

> anyone.

> > > >

> > > > VAS

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...>

wrote:

> > > > > Hare Rama Krishna

> > > > >

> > > > > -------------------------

----

> --

> > --

> > > --

> > > > ------------

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Nomaveda,

> > > > > Everyone has an Istha Devata, whether they believe it or

not

> is

> > a

> > > > different matter.

> > > > > Best wishes, Visti.

> > > > > -

> > > > > Nomadeva Sharma

> > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

> > > > > RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and Atheist

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >pvr108 [pvr@c...]

> > > > > >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha. Its

> > > > > strongest occupant or

> > > > > >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant

> > > > > moksha. Rasi aspects

> > > > >

> > > > > How does this concept work for an atheist? Doesn't

> > > > > Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or an

> > > > > agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only seems to

> > > > > reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't help much.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So, isn't that an overriding factor before we speak of

> > > > > Ishtadevata?

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Nomadeva

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > News - Today's headlines

> > > > > http://news.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sponsor

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > astrology/info.html

> > > > >

> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> @e...

> > > > >

> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu

||

> > > > >

> > > > >

Terms of

> > > > Service.

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

[Guest guest]

> >

hi all,

moksa is not a trade mark only to hindus it is

unversal to all humanity . certainly anyone who come

near to moksa

could understand the depth of hinduism in short the

meaning behind ahimsa parmodharma,

nonvoilent to all living being is highest form of

religion.

good and bad karma both binds us to life and ego it is

only once we live as atman and beyond self intrest we

could say we may go toward moksha and there till then

the

ista devta or hindu gods may be help to sincers seeker

..in history we know there is always nation born

express

theire ego go top of the ladder and disappere.

but achieveing goal of moksha is very individal

and has nothing to do with nation or personel religion

it is like being god and seeing this mess tru god eyes

most importantly undeerstanding it as it is.

our president think going to war will create peace

on earth and remove one more evil saddam hussain.

guns has never achieved the peace may be it is gods

will to create unrest but individually we are free

to maintain state of peace in our heart.

its like pro life people talk about life but go kill

the doctor who do opretion to abort child.

means dictate the end will be same.some saint believe

even if we are cruel to animal on this earth

the peace and harmony is at stake.

atheist may live perfect life as one of us but he is

also on the road to moksha if his heart is full of

love to the creation of this puzzale world.

its like he is also center of the god whos

circumfereance no one ever could trace even science is

failed to see the end and end is growing more into

unknown till the science make mistake to distroy what

ever they see and start point zero again.

do you know albert einstien one said oh god i may be

a

plumber in this life than a nuclear expert.

he know man igo is ointo grred and will destry what

can not have to himself.

rregards rajinder

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

News - Today's headlines

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[Guest guest]

hi

once i had read one article on this .

author had given various combos for sikhs &

christians.(both believe in single god....right?)

 

i don't remember properly but moon is for mother mary,

saturn for holy ghost( i m not very sure), & so on.

then there r some saints like saint peter , saint

augustine ...etc

see, being a hindu from india i don't have much

knowledge of christianity, it was meant to give u a

hint .

sikhs have also similar provision. they have 10

gurus.guru gobind singh resembles like mars,guru nanak

like jupiter..so on

prashant

--- vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent

wrote:

> A related question - I hope I get an answer this

> time - is: Since

> Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an

> Ishta-Devata, be

> they non-believers or believers in a different

> religion - Islam or

> Christianity for example, how do they end up

> worshipping/showing

> devotion to that devata? Does it only take Hindu

> mantras, yantras and

> tantras to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there

> non-religion-

> specific techniques as well? This line of thinking

> leads to many

> questions, only some of which I am raising. The

> foremost question of

> course is that religions that came after Judaism and

> Christianity

> (and including them) hold strong to the notion of a

> single God, but

> more importantly and in direct contradiction to

> Hinduism, completely

> reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a

> well-meaning

> spiritual person of such a religion would only end

> up

> worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or

> single form of

> God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this

> group, would be

> the path of that person? Are you saying that since

> he would not be

> specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would

> not be led to

> final emancipation? Are people who are on the verge

> of Moksha only

> born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to the

> above are "No",

> there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching

> simple virtuosity

> and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps

> working with

> challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn

> areas) that is

> independent of religious overtones, that effectively

> counts as what

> in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific

> Ishta-Devata". I

> really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean

> disrespect to anyone.

>

> VAS

>

> vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen"

> <vishnu@l...> wrote:

> > Hare Rama Krishna

> >

> >

>

--

> ------------

> >

> > Dear Nomaveda,

> > Everyone has an Istha Devata, whether they believe

> it or not is a

> different matter.

> > Best wishes, Visti.

> > -

> > Nomadeva Sharma

> > vedic astrology

> > Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

> > RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and

> Atheist

> >

> >

> > >

> > >pvr108 [pvr@c...]

> > >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM

> >

> > >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha. Its

> > strongest occupant or

> > >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant

> > moksha. Rasi aspects

> >

> > How does this concept work for an atheist?

> Doesn't

> > Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or an

> > agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only

> seems to

> > reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't help

> much.

> >

> >

> > So, isn't that an overriding factor before we

> speak of

> > Ishtadevata?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Nomadeva

> >

> >

>

> >

> > News - Today's headlines

> > http://news.

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Archives:

> vedic astrology

> >

> > Group info:

>

vedic astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> vedic astrology-@e...

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

> Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> >

> > Your use of is subject to the

> Terms of

> Service.

>

>

 

 

 

 

News - Today's headlines

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[Guest guest]

>

> Visti Larsen [vishnu]

> Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:55 AM

 

> Actually the Istha Devata is Maha Vishnu, but only

> rarely are people able to see/understand this

> clearly..

 

Dear Visti, that's a gem of truth, something that

cannot be missed if one goes carefully through

Bhagavad Gita.

 

ye.apyanyadevatAbhaktA yajante shraddhayAnvitaaH |

te.api mAmeva kaunteya yajantyavidhipUrvakam.h ||

(9.23)

 

(Even those who worship other gods with sincere

devotion, actually worship Me only..)

 

However I don't think this MahaVishnu or the

Parabrahman is nirguNa by any means. And His being

nirguNa is not the only way one can talk about

Monotheism in Hinduism. He can be the One with

infinite qualities (Shvetashvatara Up), who finally

answers all the prayers, irrespective of who the

aspirant is or what his/her religion is.

 

After all, ekam sat viprA bahudhA vadanti.

 

Regards,

Nomadeva

 

 

 

News - Today's headlines

http://news.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Rath and all the learned gurus:

 

I know you all are very busy, but are finding time to

post on this board and enlighten the ingnorant souls

like me. I wish I had found this board earlier.

 

All my (short)life, I've longed for something like

this, a cogrregation of individuals of high education

and REAL intellienge who can enter into a debate and

at the same time keep away from the extreme views or

claim to have SUPERNATURAL talents.

 

I left India when I was in the 3rd year of

engineering, but all my teenage years, I despised all

the babas and devis and holy men and women. They were

all fake and sad part was they had a humongous

following. Anyone who claims to have SUPERNATURAL

power is directly or indirectly claiming to be God and

this is the ulimate insult to God.

 

What the Gurus do here on this board is the true

dissipation of knowlege--it's open, it's transperent

and is open to debate and rebuttal. -- This is a true

Ashram, not a fancy ranch in Oregan or some facny

building on a river bank. Well, thank you all once

more.

 

MD

 

 

 

--- Sanjay Rath <srath wrote:

>

>

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vaasudevaya

> Dear Sri Desai

> There is a difference between the Curse and Ista

> devata. Both may or may not be linked. Guru Hari's

> upadesa is based on a curse which resulted in such

> experiences and it is evident from the remedy you

> undertake that this need not be linked to the Ista

> devata. Spirituality and the mind..a difficult

> debate.

> With best wishes

> Sanjay Rath

> http://sanjayrath.tripod.com

>

> monmuk111 [monmuk111]

> Saturday, September 14, 2002 2:04 AM

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Re: Ista Devta and

> Atheist - Gurus please do respond

>

>

> Vas:

>

> I'm far from being a guru, but will attempt to

> answer your question.

> Before I begin to answer your question, let me

> establish a couple of

> things: 1) I'm a Hindu, 2) I'm extremely religiou.

>

> Now, when the guru talk about worshipping the Ista

> Devta, they are

> definitely talking about mantra and devotion to a

> certain god, at the

> same time they are talking about karma (one's deed).

> I believe the

> highest form of devotion and worship is performed by

> kind and noble

> deeds rather than sitting before god and chanting

> his/her mantras.

>

> A very learned man told me that my horsocope

> reflects that I've hurt

> a young woman, if not in this life then in my prior

> life; hence, I

> have multiple divorcees. In order to clean my Karma,

> I'm volunteering

> my time at an organization for desitute women and

> I'm fasting on

> Fridays and also fasting on Saturday (Guru Hari

> asked me to fast). --

> I'm not sitting in front of god asking him to clean

> my karma. I

> believe this addresses your question on "how do

> people of a different

> faith worship their Ista-Deva?" My one like

> conclusion is your Karma

> (deeds) are in fact your Dharma and your devotion

> toward god(may it

> be a christian god or a hebrew god).

>

> Now, let me answer your question on mantra, tantra,

> yantra not being

> available in non-hindu faiths. Dear Vas, have you

> not seen elaborate

> ceremonies being performed in the Vatican and the

> churches around the

> world, have you heard about the Gregorina

> chants?--are these not the

> christian form of mantras?

>

> Have you not seen elaborate ceremonies in the the

> Hebrew religion?

> Every other day I see on TV Jewish people standing

> in front of the

> wailing wall and praying/chanting.--isn't this the

> Hebrew form of

> mantras?

>

> So Vas, if you're a Christian or a Jew, ask your

> spiritual adviser

> for the Christian or Jewish form of mantras and

> continue your good

> deeds. Well, there you have it--you have mantras for

> your Ista-Devta

> (Jesus or Moses or Mohammend) and your good deeds

> are your Karma that

> bring you closer to god and help you attain moksha.

>

> Does this help? Have I answered your question?

> Thanks for not

> attacking Hinduism and its polyathesim, your e-mail

> comes across as

> that of a gentleman.

>

> M.Desai

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent"

> <vedicastrostudent> wrote:

> > A related question - I hope I get an answer this

> time - is: Since

> > Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an

> Ishta-Devata, be

> > they non-believers or believers in a different

> religion - Islam or

> > Christianity for example, how do they end up

> worshipping/showing

> > devotion to that devata? Does it only take Hindu

> mantras, yantras

> and

> > tantras to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there

> non-religion-

> > specific techniques as well? This line of thinking

> leads to many

> > questions, only some of which I am raising. The

> foremost question

> of

> > course is that religions that came after Judaism

> and Christianity

> > (and including them) hold strong to the notion of

> a single God, but

> > more importantly and in direct contradiction to

> Hinduism,

> completely

> > reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a

> well-meaning

> > spiritual person of such a religion would only end

> up

> > worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or

> single form of

> > God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of

> this group, would

> be

> > the path of that person? Are you saying that since

> he would not be

> > specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would

> not be led to

> > final emancipation? Are people who are on the

> verge of Moksha only

> > born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to

> the above

> are "No",

> > there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching

> simple virtuosity

> > and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps

> working with

> > challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn

> areas) that is

> > independent of religious overtones, that

> effectively counts as what

> > in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a

> specific Ishta-Devata".

> I

> > really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean

> disrespect to anyone.

> >

> > VAS

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen"

> <vishnu@l...> wrote:

> > > Hare Rama Krishna

> > >

> > >

>

 

> --

> > ------------

> > >

> > > Dear Nomaveda,

> > > Everyone has an Istha Devata, whether they

> believe it or not is a

> > different matter.

> > > Best wishes, Visti.

> > > -

> > > Nomadeva Sharma

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

> > > RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and

> Atheist

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > >pvr108 [pvr@c...]

> > > >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM

> > >

> > > >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha.

> Its

> > > strongest occupant or

> > > >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will

> grant

> > > moksha. Rasi aspects

> > >

> > > How does this concept work for an atheist?

> Doesn't

> > > Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or

> an

> > > agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only

> seems to

> > > reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't

> help much.

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello Sanjay Rathji,

Sorry for the late reply. I didnt monitor my mail over the weekend.

My name is Sundeep Prakash. I was remaining incognito only so that I

could at some point ask for a chart reading on the open newsgroup

without worrying about casual readers who also know me get to know of

events in my life I would rather keep private, events that I needed

astrological advice on. But since you asked, there goes the privacy.

So I guess now you can respond :-)

 

Thank you,

 

SP.

 

vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <srath@s...> wrote:

> Om Namo Bhagavate Vaasudevaya

> Dear VAS

> i would respond to one I can address. I don't like tlaking to a

wall. A name has a beauty of nature. It is the foremost gift of the

parents to a person or later of a Guru to his sisya. For one who asks

such a meaningful question to remain incognito makes me wonder...Is

the Ista Devata still hiding somewhere within you, waiting for you to

respond to His messages?

> With best wishes

> Sanjay Rath

> http://sanjayrath.tripod.com

>

> vedicastrostudent [vedicastrostudent]

> Friday, September 13, 2002 11:17 PM

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Re: Ista Devta and Atheist - Gurus

please do respond

>

>

> A related question - I hope I get an answer this time - is: Since

> Visti (quite logically) says that everyone has an Ishta-Devata, be

> they non-believers or believers in a different religion - Islam or

> Christianity for example, how do they end up worshipping/showing

> devotion to that devata? Does it only take Hindu mantras, yantras

and

> tantras to worship your Ishta-Devata, or are there non-religion-

> specific techniques as well? This line of thinking leads to many

> questions, only some of which I am raising. The foremost question

of

> course is that religions that came after Judaism and Christianity

> (and including them) hold strong to the notion of a single God, but

> more importantly and in direct contradiction to Hinduism,

completely

> reject multiple forms or deities. Consequently, a well-meaning

> spiritual person of such a religion would only end up

> worshipping/showing devotion to that single God or single form of

> God. What, in the understanding of the Gurus of this group, would

be

> the path of that person? Are you saying that since he would not be

> specifically worshipping an Ishta-Devata, he would not be led to

> final emancipation? Are people who are on the verge of Moksha only

> born into the Hindu religion? If your answers to the above

are "No",

> there must be a way of worship (perhaps preaching simple virtuosity

> and love, perhaps service to the poor, perhaps working with

> challenged children, perhaps serving in war-torn areas) that is

> independent of religious overtones, that effectively counts as what

> in Hinduism is interpreted as "worship of a specific Ishta-Devata".

I

> really hope my drift is clear. I do not mean disrespect to anyone.

>

> VAS

>

> vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote:

> > Hare Rama Krishna

> >

> >

--

> ------------

> >

> > Dear Nomaveda,

> > Everyone has an Istha Devata, whether they believe it or not is a

> different matter.

> > Best wishes, Visti.

> > -

> > Nomadeva Sharma

> > vedic astrology

> > Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 AM

> > RE: [vedic astrology] Ista Devta and Atheist

> >

> >

> > >

> > >pvr108 [pvr@c...]

> > >Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:53 PM

> >

> > >The 12th from karakamsa stands for moksha. Its

> > strongest occupant or

> > >lord shows ishta, i.e. the deity who will grant

> > moksha. Rasi aspects

> >

> > How does this concept work for an atheist? Doesn't

> > Rahu in the 9th house make one an atheist or an

> > agnostic? Having a benefic conjunction only seems to

> > reduce the tone of disapproval, but doesn't help much.

> >

> >

> > So, isn't that an overriding factor before we speak of

> > Ishtadevata?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Nomadeva

> >

> >

> >

> > News - Today's headlines

> > http://news.

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-@e...

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

>