Time of Birth-Child -Institute,

[Guest guest]

Dear Gurujan and fellow students,

I have seen a lot of postings from Learned Gurus and fellow astrologers on the

subject of what is the time of Birth of a child and also recently of a

University.

 

I think , I was the one who triggered off the debate when in one of my posts

about exccesive reliance on D-Charts and aspects therein , I had commented that

Birth time is always suspect and had given my reasoning for that statement.

 

I think I should explain my views on the subject as I had merely posed the

question about birth time to illustrate my point about possibility of

predictions going wrong if we place too much reliance on all the Divisional

chart as a mistake of even 2 Minutes would make a diference in planetary

positions in D-60 Chart.I should probably have quoted the story of

Bhaskaracharya the Great Mathematecian and the widowhood of his daughter

Leelavati to make my point more clear.

 

Personally, I think that it is always the time of first cry of a child which

should be considered the time of birth.Before everybody starts to tell how in

different circumstance a child may not cry at all, let me elaborate. I have

said cry of a child,as most of the time child does cry out with the first gasp

of breath.

So in case of a dumb child it would be the first gasp of breath , which

incidentally will be a cry of a different pitch.

 

The reason I think this is what the sages meant by Birth time is that according

to scriptures the Universe was created out of "Naadaa". This is the very

reasonof the great importance given to "OM".

"Om" is the primordal " Naadaa" of the creator ,out of which the universe was

created as per our scriptures.

 

Further , If we accept that the termination of life i.e. death is cessassion of

breath, then it whould not be difficult to conclude that beginning of life is

drawal of first breath.In ancient days death of a comatose person was

determined by holding a thread in front of his nostrils to see whether breath

has stopped or not.

 

Yes I know many having read upto this part of my message would be ready to tell

me that a person is only dead when Brain is dead according to modern science .

Please believe me when I tell you that there is an industrialist in my city of

Nagpur,who is brain dead for past almost an year but his heart is still beating

and he is still breathing though he is comatose.

 

My father who was a Doctor and an amateur astrologer used to tell me to give due

weightage to what he used to call native intelligence and not write off customs

developed over ages.I also found that for getting relief from Rahu during

"Grahanaa" people used to seek old clothes from well of people saying this

"Daanaa" would obtain release of Luminary from the "Grahanaa". If we remember

what are the clothes of Rahu per astrology and that Daana of various things

over which a malefic planet rules propiates him per shashtra ; it would be

clear that most of the customs that developed on the bassis of the knowledge

contained the this greatest of the shashtras from time immemorial.

 

About the Birth of a University , I think more than the Inaugural function, it

would be the time of its registration, when it starts the life of its own as a

sepatate entity;which should be considered its time of birth.

 

I would appreciate Gurujanas and Fellow astrologer's comments on the logic above.

With warm regards to fellow astrologers and respectful bow before al the Gurujana.

Chandrashekhar

[Guest guest]

In the United States since the second world war births in hospitals were

the very general rule over births at home. The recorded times are very

accurate - to the nearest minute of time in most cases. This computes

Ascendants accurate to 15' arc or so, and such accuracy can be shown by

subsequent timing of events with transits and other forecasting techniques.

But when an astrologer is given a recorded birth time by his client, the

astrologer has no idea what physical event in a series of physical events

quite close to each other was the particular physical event that the

attending medical staff took to be the exact moment of birth. It is a good

question what actual physical event in the birth process is the event that

coincides with the time that the chart comes into being. My sense is that

the tradition in many of the world's religions is correct that the physical

event that coincides with the chart's coming into being is the first breath

or first cry - the two must be essentially at the same time. But the

practical situation as concerns the astrologer who wants to be thorough and

accurate in his work, is that one must rectify the birth time in all cases,

not just when only an approximate time is provided by the family's

recollection, but for all cases of recorded births. For one has to contend

with the problem that the clock may not be very accurate, or if the clock

were accurate, the recording may not have been done at the moment of birth,

but after some good time had elapsed, the staff then subtracting from the

clock the time they thought that had elapsed since the event.

 

As a scientific looking into the question of what physical event coincides

with the chart's coming into being, all one has to do is have staffs record

the various events in the birth process with very accurate clocks. And

following this, have a team of rectifiers study the events in the lives of

those whose times in the various events of the birth process were

accurately recorded. The Ascendants of these individuals can be

determined, and the times corresponding to these Ascendants can then be

compared to the times of the various events of the birth process. In this

way if a particular physical event in the birth process always coincides

with the coming into being of the chart, this will be discovered.

 

Now on the matter of a college or university coming into being, there is a

process here. First someone has an idea. Then that person gets together a

group of people that he thinks might respond positively to the idea. (If a

college or university is to be born, there must be a group of people, each

person doing a certain task among the many that are needed, such as fund

raising, acquiring land, finding a builder, finding faculty, deciding how

big to make it, what the philosophy of education will be, etc.) At some

point this group makes a decision to go forward. This is certainly a point

to regard as the birth of the organization at some level. It shows the

intent of the college or university, it seems to me. At some point there

may need to be a chartering with the state. This should be an important

time to consider for the entity to come into existence. And finally, there

is the beginning of the college in operation, when it begins teaching its

first class.

 

I am trying to think about which of these is the more important.

 

Larry Ely

 

At 01:55 AM 10/22/02 +0530, you wrote:

> Dear Gurujan and fellow students, I have seen a lot of postings from

>Learned Gurus and fellow astrologers on the subject of what is the time of

>Birth of a child and also recently of a University. I think , I was the

>one who triggered off the debate when in one of my posts about exccesive

>reliance on D-Charts and aspects therein , I had commented that Birth time

>is always suspect and had given my reasoning for that statement. I think

>I should explain my views on the subject as I had merely posed the

>question about birth time to illustrate my point about possibility of

>predictions going wrong if we place too much reliance on all the

>Divisional chart as a mistake of even 2 Minutes would make a diference in

>planetary positions in D-60 Chart.I should probably have quoted the story

>of Bhaskaracharya the Great Mathematecian and the widowhood of his

>daughter Leelavati to make my point more clear. Personally, I think that

>it is always the time of first cry of a child which should be considered

>the time of birth.Before everybody starts to tell how in different

>circumstance a child may not cry at all, let me elaborate. I have said cry

>of a child,as most of the time child does cry out with the first gasp of

>breath. So in case of a dumb child it would be the first gasp of breath ,

>which incidentally will be a cry of a different pitch. created out of

>"Naadaa". This is the very reasonof the great importance given to "OM".

>"Om" is the primordal " Naadaa" of the creator ,out of which the universe

>was created as per our scriptures. Further , If we accept that the

>termination of life i.e. death is cessassion of breath, then it whould not

>be difficult to conclude that beginning of life is drawal of first

>breath.In ancient days death of a comatose person was determined by

>holding a thread in front of his nostrils to see whether breath has

>stopped or not. and he is still breathing though he is comatose.

>My father who was a Doctor and an amateur astrologer used to tell me to

>give due weightage to what he used to call native intelligence and not

>write off customs developed over ages.I also found that for getting relief

>from Rahu during "Grahanaa" people used to seek old clothes from well of

>people saying this "Daanaa" would obtain release of Luminary from the

>"Grahanaa". If we remember what are the clothes of Rahu per astrology and

>that Daana of various things over which a malefic planet rules propiates

>him per shashtra ; it would be clear that most of the customs that

>developed on the bassis of the knowledge contained the this greatest of

>the shashtras from time immemorial.

> I would appreciate Gurujanas and Fellow astrologer's

>comments on the logic above. With warm regards to fellow astrologers and

>respectful bow before al the Gurujana. Chandrashekhar

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> ||

>

>

[Guest guest]

dear list

I am adding my little bit to the discussion. A good friend of mine, who is in

the SHARE MARKET, has cast the charts of a large number of PLTD companies, and

from a study of these predicts the share movements of the particular company.

He takes the DATE of INCORPORATION as the Birth Date. Since the Deed has to be

reegistered, he takes the time as the LOCAL NOON of the place, sinceee an exact

time is not known

As far as birth of humans is concerned, it is taken as the Time of Taking the

1st breath, when the SOUL or VAYU enters the body and makes it a living being.

Usually this accompanied by a crying, and this time is accepted as the Birth

TIMe. In spite of all modern improvements to record the birth time correctly,

ther is no harm in verifying it by checking on the further events in life

 

--- Larry Ely <ldely wrote:

> In the United States since the second world war births in hospitals were

> the very general rule over births at home. The recorded times are very

> accurate - to the nearest minute of time in most cases. This computes

> Ascendants accurate to 15' arc or so, and such accuracy can be shown by

> subsequent timing of events with transits and other forecasting techniques.

> But when an astrologer is given a recorded birth time by his client, the

> astrologer has no idea what physical event in a series of physical events

> quite close to each other was the particular physical event that the

> attending medical staff took to be the exact moment of birth. It is a good

> question what actual physical event in the birth process is the event that

> coincides with the time that the chart comes into being. My sense is that

> the tradition in many of the world's religions is correct that the physical

> event that coincides with the chart's coming into being is the first breath

> or first cry - the two must be essentially at the same time. But the

> practical situation as concerns the astrologer who wants to be thorough and

> accurate in his work, is that one must rectify the birth time in all cases,

> not just when only an approximate time is provided by the family's

> recollection, but for all cases of recorded births. For one has to contend

> with the problem that the clock may not be very accurate, or if the clock

> were accurate, the recording may not have been done at the moment of birth,

> but after some good time had elapsed, the staff then subtracting from the

> clock the time they thought that had elapsed since the event.

>

> As a scientific looking into the question of what physical event coincides

> with the chart's coming into being, all one has to do is have staffs record

> the various events in the birth process with very accurate clocks. And

> following this, have a team of rectifiers study the events in the lives of

> those whose times in the various events of the birth process were

> accurately recorded. The Ascendants of these individuals can be

> determined, and the times corresponding to these Ascendants can then be

> compared to the times of the various events of the birth process. In this

> way if a particular physical event in the birth process always coincides

> with the coming into being of the chart, this will be discovered.

>

> Now on the matter of a college or university coming into being, there is a

> process here. First someone has an idea. Then that person gets together a

> group of people that he thinks might respond positively to the idea. (If a

> college or university is to be born, there must be a group of people, each

> person doing a certain task among the many that are needed, such as fund

> raising, acquiring land, finding a builder, finding faculty, deciding how

> big to make it, what the philosophy of education will be, etc.) At some

> point this group makes a decision to go forward. This is certainly a point

> to regard as the birth of the organization at some level. It shows the

> intent of the college or university, it seems to me. At some point there

> may need to be a chartering with the state. This should be an important

> time to consider for the entity to come into existence. And finally, there

> is the beginning of the college in operation, when it begins teaching its

> first class.

>

> I am trying to think about which of these is the more important.

>

> Larry Ely

>

> At 01:55 AM 10/22/02 +0530, you wrote:

> > Dear Gurujan and fellow students, I have seen a lot of postings from

> >Learned Gurus and fellow astrologers on the subject of what is the time of

> >Birth of a child and also recently of a University. I think , I was the

> >one who triggered off the debate when in one of my posts about exccesive

> >reliance on D-Charts and aspects therein , I had commented that Birth time

> >is always suspect and had given my reasoning for that statement. I think

> >I should explain my views on the subject as I had merely posed the

> >question about birth time to illustrate my point about possibility of

> >predictions going wrong if we place too much reliance on all the

> >Divisional chart as a mistake of even 2 Minutes would make a diference in

> >planetary positions in D-60 Chart.I should probably have quoted the story

> >of Bhaskaracharya the Great Mathematecian and the widowhood of his

> >daughter Leelavati to make my point more clear. Personally, I think that

> >it is always the time of first cry of a child which should be considered

> >the time of birth.Before everybody starts to tell how in different

> >circumstance a child may not cry at all, let me elaborate. I have said cry

> >of a child,as most of the time child does cry out with the first gasp of

> >breath. So in case of a dumb child it would be the first gasp of breath ,

> >which incidentally will be a cry of a different pitch. created out of

> >"Naadaa". This is the very reasonof the great importance given to "OM".

> >"Om" is the primordal " Naadaa" of the creator ,out of which the universe

> >was created as per our scriptures. Further , If we accept that the

> >termination of life i.e. death is cessassion of breath, then it whould not

> >be difficult to conclude that beginning of life is drawal of first

> >breath.In ancient days death of a comatose person was determined by

> >holding a thread in front of his nostrils to see whether breath has

> >stopped or not. and he is still breathing though he is comatose.

> >My father who was a Doctor and an amateur astrologer used to tell me to

> >give due weightage to what he used to call native intelligence and not

> >write off customs developed over ages.I also found that for getting relief

> >from Rahu during "Grahanaa" people used to seek old clothes from well of

> >people saying this "Daanaa" would obtain release of Luminary from the

> >"Grahanaa". If we remember what are the clothes of Rahu per astrology and

> >that Daana of various things over which a malefic planet rules propiates

> >him per shashtra ; it would be clear that most of the customs that

> >developed on the bassis of the knowledge contained the this greatest of

> >the shashtras from time immemorial.

> > I would appreciate Gurujanas and Fellow astrologer's

> >comments on the logic above. With warm regards to fellow astrologers and

> >respectful bow before al the Gurujana. Chandrashekhar

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > ||

> >

> >

>

>

 

 

 

 

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