Vaidurya: Lapis Lazuli?- Ramadas

February 8, 2003

font-family:Verdana">Jaya Jagannatha

font-family:Verdana">

font-family:Verdana">Dear Ramadas,

OM KLEEM

KRISHNAAYA NAMAH

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Dear Swee,

The informations which I furnished is from

a very old book on Gems which is in Kannada Language and is written by Veda

Bhushana Sri Basavayya Shastri of Herematt in Karnataka State.Also I have

checked with other books on Gems which is availble in India and they also tell

the same information.

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

color:blue">Swee: According to the translated version in GP., the author states

that Lapis is Vaidurya. After going through it, I am convinced that Sarbani

gave me the correct information, which you will read in my post to her.

The hardness of Lapis is 5-5.5 and its

specific gravity is between 2.7 and 2.9.

color:blue">Swee: I don’t know why you are repeating what I’ve stated is a

corrected fact. In GP, it states that anything that is softer than glass (Mohs’

scale 6) is considered spurious. So this is really an attempt to correct all

the information given by NON qualified people who write these information on

gemstones.

windowtext">

color:blue">The aventurine, which falls under this category has a harness of

6-6.5, and it is classified as a type of glass. Now you see, in reality, Lapis

Lazuli should not even be in the equation at all.

Number 9

which I wrote is not by adding all the date,month and year. It is just date of

birth 9/18/27 only.

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

color:blue">Swee: I get the remainder as 8. Mars, as I know it, in Vedic

astrology, indicates the first house, and the dosha it gives is the full aspect

on the 4th and the 8th, so I do not know how this is

correlated. Can you explain further please.

color:blue">The theory here lies if anything is hot we have to cool it,so as

no.9 ruled by Kuja is hot and can be controlled by cold gem like Lapis or blue

sapphire which is called Indra Neela.

color:blue">Swee: I guarantee you, there is a distinction reference made in GP

between Indraneela (which I think is Iolite.) As GP stresses the fact on

avoiding included material, it is most unlikey that the Star Sapphire is stated

here. In case this is so, and the inclusions are acceptable to create the cat’s

eye and star effects, then indeed, it must mean Star Sapphire. Mahaneela in GP

says that when you put it in milk, the colour will illuminate the blue. This is

why the cornflour blue sapphire is advised, as it has a very distinct blue

colour. (Like royal blue)

blue;mso-color-alt:windowtext">

color:blue">Now regarding Vaidurya,the information on the website you gave is

also wrong. Vaidurya is Ketu's gem stone

color:blue">Swee: (Mia culpa, I am getting a headache here <grin>). Not

according to the translated version in GP. GP states that it is Lapis with all

the hues. I cannot carry on with this, as I am now pretty satisfied with

Sarbani’s translations, and the last information I gave to both you and Sarbani

regarding Chrysoberyl will suffice. There are two types: the Chatoyancy of

Cat’s eyes in variable colours and the other is Alexandrite (colour change). Recent

findings of interest is the colour change garnet and spinel, though spinel and

alexandrite are both closer to the hardness of sapphire. So these will fall in

line with the translations given. So next? Garnet change throws us back. Right?

The gemstone person at the largest jewellery store that both Gauranga Prabhu

and I visited in Delhi, says that the colour change spinel is alexandrite, and

the blue Topaz is Aquamarine. Oh dear.

font-family:Verdana">Thank you for your help.

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best regards,

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12.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail Signature"

12.0pt;color:blue;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">Swee

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mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">swee (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net

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February 8, 2003

Dear Swee,

Now I will take out the print out of your message and I will write a personal

letter and send by post to all the authors I referred regarding Gem stone and

when I get reply from them(I hope ! ),I will write in these columns.I am not a

argumentative person.

Thanks for the message.

With best regards,

Ramadas Rao.

Swee Chan <swee (AT) coppernet (DOT) zm> wrote:

Jaya Jagannatha

Dear Ramadas,

OM KLEEM KRISHNAAYA NAMAH

Dear Swee,

The informations which I furnished is from a very old book on Gems which is in

Kannada Language and is written by Veda Bhushana Sri Basavayya Shastri of

Herematt in Karnataka State.Also I have checked with other books on Gems which

is availble in India and they also tell the same information.

Swee: According to the translated version in GP., the author states that Lapis

is Vaidurya. After going through it, I am convinced that Sarbani gave me the

correct information, which you will read in my post to her.

The hardness of Lapis is 5-5.5 and its specific gravity is between 2.7 and 2.9.

Swee: I don’t know why you are repeating what I’ve stated is a corrected fact.

In GP, it states that anything that is softer than glass (Mohs’ scale 6) is

considered spurious. So this is really an attempt to correct all the

information given by NON qualified people who write these information on

gemstones.

The aventurine, which falls under this category has a harness of 6-6.5, and it

is classified as a type of glass. Now you see, in reality, Lapis Lazuli should

not even be in the equation at all.

Number 9 which I wrote is not by adding all the date,month and year. It is just

date of birth 9/18/27 only.

Swee: I get the remainder as 8. Mars, as I know it, in Vedic astrology,

indicates the first house, and the dosha it gives is the full aspect on the 4th

and the 8th, so I do not know how this is correlated. Can you explain further

please.

The theory here lies if anything is hot we have to cool it,so as no.9 ruled by

Kuja is hot and can be controlled by cold gem like Lapis or blue sapphire which

is called Indra Neela.

Swee: I guarantee you, there is a distinction reference made in GP between

Indraneela (which I think is Iolite.) As GP stresses the fact on avoiding

included material, it is most unlikey that the Star Sapphire is stated here. In

case this is so, and the inclusions are acceptable to create the cat’s eye and

star effects, then indeed, it must mean Star Sapphire. Mahaneela in GP says

that when you put it in milk, the colour will illuminate the blue. This is why

the cornflour blue sapphire is advised, as it has a very distinct blue colour.

(Like royal blue)

Now regarding Vaidurya,the information on the website you gave is also wrong.

Vaidurya is Ketu's gem stone

Swee: (Mia culpa, I am getting a headache here <grin>). Not according to the

translated version in GP. GP states that it is Lapis with all the hues. I

cannot carry on with this, as I am now pretty satisfied with Sarbani’s

translations, and the last information I gave to both you and Sarbani regarding

Chrysoberyl will suffice. There are two types: the Chatoyancy of Cat’s eyes in

variable colours and the other is Alexandrite (colour change). Recent findings

of interest is the colour change garnet and spinel, though spinel and

alexandrite are both closer to the hardness of sapphire. So these will fall in

line with the translations given. So next? Garnet change throws us back. Right?

The gemstone person at the largest jewellery store that both Gauranga Prabhu and

I visited in Delhi, says that the colour change spinel is alexandrite, and the

blue Topaz is Aquamarine. Oh dear.

Thank you for your help.best regards,

Swee

swee (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net

http://www.brihaspati.net/

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February 10, 2003

JAYA JAGANNATHA!

Dear Swee,

Hare Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada in some places also accepts the version of Vaidurya meaning

Lapis Lazuli (SB 3.15.20.):

yat saěkulaŕ

hari-padänati-mätra-dĺńöairvaidürya-märakata-hema-mayair

vimänaiůyeńäŕ bĺhat-kaöi-taöäů

smita-çobhi-mukhyaůkĺńëätmanäŕ na raja ädadhur

utsmayädyaiůSYNONYMSyat—that Vaikuëöha abode; saěkulam—is pervaded;

hari-pada—at the two lotus feet of Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead;

änati—by obeisances; mätra—simply; dĺńöaiů—are obtained;

vaidürya—lapis lazuli; märakata—emeralds; hema—gold; mayaiů—made of;

vimänaiů—with airplanes; yeńäm—of those passengers; bĺhat—large;

kaöi-taöäů—hips; smita—smiling; çobhi—beautiful; mukhyaů—faces;

kĺńëa—in Kĺńëa; ätmanäm—whose minds are absorbed; na—not;

rajaů—sex desire; ädadhuů—stimulate; utsmaya-ädyaiů—by intimate

friendly dealings, laughing and joking.TRANSLATIONThe inhabitants of Vaikuëöha

travel in their airplanes made of lapis lazuli, emerald and gold. Although

crowded by their consorts, who have large hips and beautiful smiling faces,

they cannot be stimulated to passion by their mirth and beautiful charms.

However this does not decide the question as far as I feel According to hardness

and transparency it is out of the order to me also. On the other hand, we get a

hint from Baladeva Vidyabhusana's Vedanta Syamantaka as follows:

As a vaidurya gem (lapis lazuli) manifests different colours when observed from

different angles, so the Supreme Personality of Godhead manifests many different

forms. Of all these forms, His two-armed form is the most handsome and has all

the Lord's transcendental qualities in completeness. The other forms are not

like it.

Now it is obvoius that the translators were not gemologists, neother Srila

Prabhupada, so they just seemingly followed His version.

However if we look closer, Srila Prabhupada also accepts this quality of the

Vaidurya stone (Purport to Bg. 4.5):

In the Vedas also it is said that the Lord, although one without a second,

manifests Himself in innumerable forms. He is like the vaidurya stone, which

changes color yet still remains one. All those multiforms are understood by the

pure, unalloyed devotees, but not by a simple study of the Vedas (vedeńu

durlabham adurlabham ätma-bhaktau).

Also in other places he gives different meanings to the Vaidurya stone: a

special diamond (SB 2.9.12. - The vaidürya diamond is especially meant for the

Personality of Godhead, but one who achieves the liberation of bodily equality

with the Lord is especially favored with such diamonds on his body.), emerald

(4.9.64), diamonds (4.25.15.), or simply vaidurya (7.4.9.). Then in purport to

10.3.11. He again says: The Vaidürya gem, which sometimes appears bluish,

sometimes yellow and sometimes red, is available in Vaikuëöhaloka. The Lord’s

helmet and earrings were decorated with this particular gem.

Then He quotes from the Narada Pancaratra:

maëir yathä vibhägena néla-pétädibhir yutaůrüpa-bhedam aväpnoti

dhyäna-bhedät tathäcyutaů“The infallible Personality of Godhead can

manifest His body in different ways according to different modes of worship,

just as the vaidürya gem can manifest itself in various colors, such as blue

and yellow.”

maëir yathä vibhägenanéla-pétädibhir yutaůrüpa-bhedam aväpnotidhyäna-bhedät

tathäcyutaůSYNONYMSmaëiů—jewel, specifically the jewel known as

vaidürya; yathä—as; vibhägena—separately; néla—blue; péta—yellow;

ädibhiů—and with other colors; yutaů—joined; rüpa-bhedam—difference

of form; aväpnoti—gets; dhyäna-bhedät—by different types of meditation;

tathä—similarly; acyutaů—the infallible Supreme Personality of

Godhead.TRANSLATION“‘When the jewel known as vaidürya touches various other

materials, it appears to be separated into different colors, and consequently

its forms also appear different. Similarly, according to the meditational

ecstasy of the devotee, the Lord, who is known as Acyuta [“the infallible

one”], appears in different forms, although He is essentially one.’”

So the main point here is that Vaidurya changes colors. Sholud we conclude that

it's alexandrite? Or the nominous color-changing spinell that we got at

Janpath?

I leave you to meditate on that, but I woulkd definitely vote for something else than lapis.

Yours,

Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net Jyotish Remedies:

WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839

-

Swee Chan

vedic astrology

Saturday, February 08, 2003 5:10 PM

[vedic astrology] Vaidurya: Lapis Lazuli?- Ramadas