Blind chart with corrected lat/long.

February 12, 2003

Dear list,

Thanks to Ramapriya's lat/long file for Indian

cities, I fixed the lat/long of the blind chart to the

nearest city. I request people not to try and find the

identity of the native and give an unbiased

astrological delineation.

Something tells me this will be a very useful

exercise for both the students and the

jyotishis/gurus.

We need to keep in mind that in ancient times, the

birth times were not recorded very accurately and this

birth time can be off by a few minutes. So use of

higher divisional charts such as D-60, D-144 and such

may be avoided.

Thanks,

Siva.

Send Flowers for Valentine's Day

Attachment: (application/octet-stream) XyZxYz.jhd [not stored]

February 12, 2003

Om Sreem Suragurave Brihaspataye Namah

Dear Siva,

In the early days of this list, we used to have a lot of fun with such puzzles.

It is nice to see puzzles again. But it will be nice to get puzzles with

accurate birthdata rather than centuries old birthdata (which may not be

accurate).

Anyway, here's my attempt:

Here is the birthdata given by you:

October 5, 1823Time: 17:54:00Time Zone: 5:30:00

(East of GMT)Place: 79 E 44' 00", 11 N 24' 00" (Pondicherry?)

I will use the rasi chart and the navamsa positions of planets without using

navamsa lagna. Navamsa lagna could easily be wrong.

In SAV (sarva ashtakavarga), lagna, 5th, 6th and 10th houses have 35, 33, 35 and

31 rekhas (auspicious points) respectively. This clearly shows a very successful

person (strong 1st, 5th and 10th) with a lot of enemies (strong 6th).

Lagna is in Pisces. Lagna lord Jupiter is in 4th house, showing a peaceful,

contented and happy person overall. Jupiter in arudha lagna (AL) in Ge shows

somebody who is perceived to be intelligent (Ge) and

religious/traditional/noble (Jupiter). Paka lagna (Ge, center of intelligence)

has papa kartari (malefic scissors) from Mars, Ketu and Saturn. This shows his

intelligence (dhee) coming under some undesirable influences (i.e. not

completely the pure wisdom of Jupiter). However, Jupiter has unobstructed

argalas from luminaries, Mercury and Venus. Thus the negative influences are

overcome and the native's intelligence and wisdom shine finally. The native has

great wisdom.

When I look at the yogas present in this chart (using my software), one yoga

stands out in the list - Parivraja (pravrajya) yoga. Because Moon is aspected

by Saturn by rasi aspect and occupies a Martian navamsa, there is parivraja

yoga. That yoga makes one a renunciate. Situation of Moon in 8th with a planet

(Mercury) having exchange with the 8th lord (Venus) strengthens the indications

(but the same Moon, as the 5th lord in marana karaka sthana, would show some

misfortune related to children).

However, to study the potential of Parivraja yoga further, look at the link of

Moon with AK (atma karaka) in navamsa. With Moon being debilitated in navamsa

in the 3rd from AK, this yoga becomes powerful and can fructify. The 3rd from

AK in navamsa shows the root of the desires of the soul, i.e. the motivation of

the soul. Debilitated Moon there giving Parivraja yoga shows very strong

(debilitation!) motivation (3rd) of the soul (AK) towards liberation from bonds

(Parivraja yoga given by Moon).

We can say with a reasonable level of confidence that this is a religious person

who renounced material comforts.

A5 is in Li with Moon and Mercury in it. The native has some followers who are

diplomatic (Li), scholarly (Mercury) and compassionate (Moon). A6 is also

there. Some of the native's followers turn enemies and abuse the native (or

vice versa - enemies later become followers). A7 is in Sc with Gulika and Mandi

in it. The native associates with undesirable or oppressed people (shown by

Saturn's sons). A9 is in Pi. The native's physical acts related to dharma are

very pure and saattwik. UL (upapada lagna) is in the 12th from AL and contains

Saturn. The native completely ignores spouse. Mars and Ketu are in A2 in the

2nd from AL. The native is poor despite fame. He has very simple resources

(money etc).

While A9 in Pisces shows that the external signs of the native's dharma are very

saattwik, debilitation of 9th lord Mars and situation of Mars in Bhrashta

shashtyamsa (bhrashta = fallen) suggests that the native may break his/her

dharma and tradition.

Exchange between AK (Venus) and PK (Mercury) shows a raja yoga and support of

many followers. However, Mercury is in 8th (and not 1st or 5th). So raja yoga

does not give any political power and is related to tapasya and occult matters.

The support etc may have come in the Moola dasa of Venus (Oct 1928-Oct 1948) or

the Moola dasa of Mercury (Oct 1968-Oct 1974). Mercury is in Kali naasa

shashtyamsa (kali naasa = destruction of strife and ignorance), showing

destruction of the ignorance of followers in that period. While PK Mercury is

in Kali naasa shashtyamsa, AK Venus is in Deva shashtyamsa (deva = god). That

actually shows a great soul.

I'll stop here. As we look at various factors, we can say a lot of things.

Whether they or true are not may depend on the divisional charts. Actually, it

will be nice if puzzles posted here are well-defined problems with objective

answers rather than open-ended descriptions. If you say "say something about

this chart", it is an open-ended question and one can go on and on.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

February 12, 2003

Dear Narasimhaji,

Just excellent! I think by observing such analysis students like

me will develop of methodology that fits us. BTW, I took Chidambaram

(of famous Nataraja temple) and not Pondichery as his place of

birth, since I learnt that Chidambaram is the closest city to the

village he was born.

btw, somewhere in the corner of my heart I wished you posted after

a few days Now others will stop trying it as you have cracked it

with good accuracy, even with a rough birth time! So I am giving the

identity of the native.

The native is none other than famous saint Ramalinga Swami (a.k.a

Vallalar). As you have asked, I am posting some well defined

questions at the end of a not so brief life sketch which follows:

Born in 1823 as the last son in a family of strict Saivite

tradition, Ramalingam lost his parents early and was living under

the care of his brother. Great miracles are attributed to him right

from the age of 5 or 9. He never went to school. However he was a

great expert in both Tamil and Sanskrit (at an young age, he could

quote any tamil or sanskrit scripture including works of Sages such

as Agastya which are not available currently). He is considered the

biggest poet of last few centuries in Tamil. He masterpiece

Thiruarutpa (Songs of Grace) is compared among the best of the

classical & spiritual works available in Tamil.

While young (9 yrs and above), he was a big devotee of lord Muruga

(Karthikeya). Then he became an ardent devotee of Lord Shiva and

began to exhibit miracles, unknowingly. He was compassion

personified. His relatives forcible married him to a woman, and she

died a virgin later. He tried to get her into spirituality but he

never lived the life of a family man.

Initially many came to him either to challenge his knowledge or to

test his spirituality - but they later became his followers. He

attained what he calls "pure body" and his body never cast a shadow!

He also could never be photographed and this was attested to by the

top photographer of the then madras presidency. (Similar to Lahiri

Mahasaya - Paramguru of Yogananda). While walking, he never made

footprints. Big crowds gathered to witness such miracles, which he

didnt like. So he always moved around covering his whole body

including head with a white cloth. His biggest miracles were that he

converted thousands people into vegetarianism just by throwing a

mere glance at them! Compassion towards all beings (not just humans)

was the foundation of his philosophy. Any and every form of killing

was declared a unforgivable sin. He used to "disappear" for months

or weeks and then reappear. He lived on very scant food (mostly a

cup of water with little sugar once a few days). When he was around

45, he used to keep one of his eyes closed. It is said that when

someone ordinary person sees both his eyes (they are open

immediately after his meditation) the force was too strong to bear

and the onlooker goes into coma like stage for days/weeks.

After a while, he declared that all religions as understood by

general public are wrong. He declared that there is only one God who

doesnt have any form and is to worshipped as divinge grace light.

Also, he said that all puranas and scriptures, including vedas while

true, dont help the followers because the real truth is well hidden

behind mythology. He gave detailed explanation of Karthikeya (and

Ganesh) to prove that they are not "real" gods by symbolisms to

yogic and spiritual concepts/secrets. He declared pure love towards

all jeevas and sincre bhakthi was the easiest way to reach God and

attain final moksha. He also declared that the concept of varna was

both wrong and a misunderstanding and no human should be

differentiated based on any factor including sex. His advise on

abolishing caste system and his strong declaration that idol

worship is not necessary didnt make him famous among general public,

despite his great extraordinary miracles and detailed spiritual

poems which explained his philosophy in simple terms. He said that

final moksha is attainable for every person regardless of their past

karma. Only the level of work required will vary.

His definition of final emancipation is bodily immortality, which is

said to have been attained by Agastya, Babaji, Adi Shankara,

Madhavacharya, Saivite and Vaishnavite saints of bhakti traditions,

etc. In that stage, the "pure body" obtained before gets transformed

into invisible form and merged with God. So as per him, those that

reach final emancipation dont leave a physical body.

In 1874, he declared to his disciples that people in south havent

understood his teachings properly and from then on he will work with

people not just in south india but all over the world and be present

all over the world. He instructed his people to feed the poor and

the annadhana he started till continues in Vadalur. The kitchen fire

has never been stopped so far, literally. He has said only after

people in the world are elevated spiritually to next stage, he will

show his physical form again, till then nobody can see him. He

entered a room and asked his disciples to lock it outside. He told

them that when opened he wouldnt be there. This became major news

and British govt ordered his room be opened. When they opened it,

they found nothing! The then (1874) collector and local Tashildar

who came for that investigation declared that he was indeed a

powerful mystic who has disappeared miraculously. So far, he hasnt

reappeared (proof that humanity still needs to evolve to next

level!).

He has said many predictions which are proving true sofar. (Eg.,

Hinduism and yoga will travel west by enlightened souls/yogis and

people will accept it slowly. All forms of systemized classification

of people - such as racism or varna will slowly die all over the

world, etc). Interestingly, his statement on kaliyuga is almost the

same as what Swami Yukteshwar said about Kaliyuga. Ramalinga also

says that one day of devas being equal to one human year concept was

a misunderstanding due to influence of Kali and dwapara yuga will

start in late 19th century. (Interestingly, he even predicted that

evolved yogis in north will realize what he said soon - many

advanced preachings of Lahiri Mahasaya such as possibility of bodily

immortality, etc are identical to what Ramalinga says).

DEFINITE QUESTIONS:

------------------

You asked for a well defined puzzle/question in the chart. I think

it is obvious in this case:

His extraordinary miracles, attainment of siddhis in a very young

age, knowledge of scriptures and ability to sing poems without any

learning, attainment of bodily immortality or moksha, etc. My

question is, whether these can be seen from the chart or astrolgy

fails for people _after_ they become "realized." Even Ramalinga

Swami has said that truly enlightened souls are outside of law of

karma.

Thanks and regards,

Siva.

vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

<pvr@c...> wrote:

> Om Sreem Suragurave Brihaspataye Namah

> Dear Siva,

>

> In the early days of this list, we used to have a lot of fun with

such puzzles. It is nice to see puzzles again. But it will be nice

to get puzzles with accurate birthdata rather than centuries old

birthdata (which may not be accurate).

>

> Anyway, here's my attempt:

>

> Here is the birthdata given by you:

>

> October 5, 1823

> Time: 17:54:00

> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> Place: 79 E 44' 00", 11 N 24' 00" (Pondicherry?)

>

> I will use the rasi chart and the navamsa positions of planets

without using navamsa lagna. Navamsa lagna could easily be wrong.

>

> In SAV (sarva ashtakavarga), lagna, 5th, 6th and 10th houses have

35, 33, 35 and 31 rekhas (auspicious points) respectively. This

clearly shows a very successful person (strong 1st, 5th and 10th)

with a lot of enemies (strong 6th).

>

> Lagna is in Pisces. Lagna lord Jupiter is in 4th house, showing a

peaceful, contented and happy person overall. Jupiter in arudha

lagna (AL) in Ge shows somebody who is perceived to be intelligent

(Ge) and religious/traditional/noble (Jupiter). Paka lagna (Ge,

center of intelligence) has papa kartari (malefic scissors) from

Mars, Ketu and Saturn. This shows his intelligence (dhee) coming

under some undesirable influences (i.e. not completely the pure

wisdom of Jupiter). However, Jupiter has unobstructed argalas from

luminaries, Mercury and Venus. Thus the negative influences are

overcome and the native's intelligence and wisdom shine finally. The

native has great wisdom.

>

> When I look at the yogas present in this chart (using my

software), one yoga stands out in the list - Parivraja (pravrajya)

yoga. Because Moon is aspected by Saturn by rasi aspect and occupies

a Martian navamsa, there is parivraja yoga. That yoga makes one a

renunciate. Situation of Moon in 8th with a planet (Mercury) having

exchange with the 8th lord (Venus) strengthens the indications (but

the same Moon, as the 5th lord in marana karaka sthana, would show

some misfortune related to children).

>

> However, to study the potential of Parivraja yoga further, look at

the link of Moon with AK (atma karaka) in navamsa. With Moon being

debilitated in navamsa in the 3rd from AK, this yoga becomes

powerful and can fructify. The 3rd from AK in navamsa shows the root

of the desires of the soul, i.e. the motivation of the soul.

Debilitated Moon there giving Parivraja yoga shows very strong

(debilitation!) motivation (3rd) of the soul (AK) towards liberation

from bonds (Parivraja yoga given by Moon).

>

> We can say with a reasonable level of confidence that this is a

religious person who renounced material comforts.

>

> A5 is in Li with Moon and Mercury in it. The native has some

followers who are diplomatic (Li), scholarly (Mercury) and

compassionate (Moon). A6 is also there. Some of the native's

followers turn enemies and abuse the native (or vice versa - enemies

later become followers). A7 is in Sc with Gulika and Mandi in it.

The native associates with undesirable or oppressed people (shown by

Saturn's sons). A9 is in Pi. The native's physical acts related to

dharma are very pure and saattwik. UL (upapada lagna) is in the 12th

from AL and contains Saturn. The native completely ignores spouse.

Mars and Ketu are in A2 in the 2nd from AL. The native is poor

despite fame. He has very simple resources (money etc).

>

> While A9 in Pisces shows that the external signs of the native's

dharma are very saattwik, debilitation of 9th lord Mars and

situation of Mars in Bhrashta shashtyamsa (bhrashta = fallen)

suggests that the native may break his/her dharma and tradition.

>

> Exchange between AK (Venus) and PK (Mercury) shows a raja yoga and

support of many followers. However, Mercury is in 8th (and not 1st

or 5th). So raja yoga does not give any political power and is

related to tapasya and occult matters. The support etc may have come

in the Moola dasa of Venus (Oct 1928-Oct 1948) or the Moola dasa of

Mercury (Oct 1968-Oct 1974). Mercury is in Kali naasa shashtyamsa

(kali naasa = destruction of strife and ignorance), showing

destruction of the ignorance of followers in that period. While PK

Mercury is in Kali naasa shashtyamsa, AK Venus is in Deva

shashtyamsa (deva = god). That actually shows a great soul.

>

> I'll stop here. As we look at various factors, we can say a lot of

things. Whether they or true are not may depend on the divisional

charts. Actually, it will be nice if puzzles posted here are well-

defined problems with objective answers rather than open-ended

descriptions. If you say "say something about this chart", it is an

open-ended question and one can go on and on.

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

February 12, 2003

PVRji and list:

Just noticed that my previous post was full of spelling and

grammatical errors, as I was typing it in a haste.

btw, PVRji and gurus, the chart of Ramalinga Adigalar has two

retrograde planets - one a natural malefic and another a benefic

Venus is debiltated, retrograde and vargottama. I am hoping you will

post some more info on how to interpret such a planet.

thanks,

Siva.

February 13, 2003

Dear Narasimha,

A wonderful example (as usual by you) of a blind interpretation.

However, I couldn't keep the smile away from my face when I read the following:

"< The support etc may have come in the Moola dasa of Venus (Oct 1928-Oct 1948)

or the Moola dasa of Mercury (Oct 1968-Oct 1974)>".

The natives age would be 105-125 and 145-151 respectively ... hmmm ...

Kind regards

Jay Weiss

-

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

vedic astrology

Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:01 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: Blind chart with corrected lat/long.