Vishnu and Shiva (To Sundeep)

[Guest guest]

Dear Sundeep

I can only speak on what my spiritual master has illumined for me. If it be of

some benefit for you then that is nice.

You intelligently commented that :Does it not follow reason that if Vishnu were

the only grantor of Moksha, that:

(a) all enlightened/emancipated people in the history of this planet would only

have Vishnu avatar Ishta Devatas

(b) Since most people outside the Indian subcontinent (in the history of this

world) have not even been Hindus, does it not also follow reason that there

would be no emancipated people ever outside the Indian subcontinent?

On point (a) I do believe Ishta Devatas refer to Vishnu avatars.

On point (b) Take me for example. I am born to a muslim family in England.

But if you see from my chart (which i have attached for you) you may be able to

see that this native is spiritually inclined. Sun 4th lord (mind) goes to 12th

house (liberation). Moon (mind) receieves graha distri from Ketu in Aquarius.

Moon, Asc and sun (the tripod) are all in satvic nakshatras. Retrograde AK

Saturn. Ista Devata can be seen as Sri Krishna or Lord Caitanya. I have bought

Narshimhas superb book. And he gives an example of some native with a high SAV

scores in the 12th house of D20 shows someone who will be very motivated

towards liberation within this life. You may observe mine. There are many other

things. You may observe drig dasha etc. Don't get me wrong the chart has many

obstacles too. Today I am at the peak of Sade Sati. Saturn is exactly over my

moon. But overall by some fortune or other I have got the clue how to "Go Back

to Godhead."

That doesn't mean I want to have disciples and be a big big guru of the world.

If someone is little bit eager to know the clue, I simply point them to the

direction of Srila Prabhupada's Bhagvad Gita, Srimad Bhagvatam and Caitanya

Caritamrita.

Actually this can guide you back to whomever your Ista Devata is.

So anyone in the whole world can take to this. Geography or parentage is not a concern.

But you may ask what about throught out the centuries when Srila Bhaktivedanta

Prabhupada's books and sound vibration were unavailable?

What about the billions of sincere Muslims and Christians of all these centuries

and even today. Did they not get emancipated? The easy answer is no. Because

Islam and Christianity focus people to achieve heaven as there goal. Even this

is considered a material desire. Whereas as u know emancipation or liberation

is to go beyond heaven, earth and hell. Sure sincere moral Christians and

Muslims may have gone to Heaven (and back!) to temporarily enjoy the results of

their pious karma.

Actually Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammed are considered great empowerd

devotees of the Lord who had specific missions. And if you follow them and

reach the heavenly planet where they are waiting for you then they can take you

further. And give you a process to go beyond heaven to the spiritual abode where

God resides.

What to even speak of emancipation!! The pure Bhaktas (followers of the process

of Bhakti Yoga - loving personal service to the supreme Lord) do not even want

liberation.

You can get liberation without reaching Sri Krishna (or your Ista Devata).

Religions/paths such as Bhuddism, Jainism, Sankarachyara and many others focus

on liberation from bondage.

However the example is often given like this:

1) would you rather be a drop of water that merges into the ocean? (this is akin

to mukti or liberation. Where the soul merges into the light that emanates of

the supreme lord. Thereby feeling one with the Lord. This is not the natural

position and eventually the soul due to being active by nature falls from this

position to enjoy in the sensual world again)

2) or would you like to be a fish that meets the big big fish that maintains the

whole ocean face to face and become loving friends together? (this is akin to

the soul being liberated and returning to its orignal position regaining an

individual relationship with the Supreme Lord)

I could go on and on for hours. But my words are not very potent. All I can

request is that everyone on this list may enquire from Srimad Bhagvatam. Either

the book Bhagvatam or the person Bhagvatam (Srila Prabhupada). Sanjayji himself

has commended this contribution to society.

So emancipation may be possible anywhere using many different processes/paths. I

have no statistics as to who has received it in each country. But what I can say

is that emancipation dovetailed with Krishna Bhakti will require a very

particular process that Lord Caitanya has given us.

I will leave you with a relevent chapter from Bhagvad Gita:

 

Chapter 7. Knowledge of the Absolute

TEXT 3

manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye yatatam api siddhanam kascin mam vetti tattvatah

 

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those

who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

PURPORT

There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands one may be

sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is

the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth. Generally mankind

is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping,

defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental

knowledge. The first six chapters of the Gita are meant for those who are

interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the

Superself and the process of realization by jnana-yoga, dhyana-yoga, and

discrimination of the self from matter. However, Krsna can only be known by

persons who are in Krsna consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve

impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Krsna.

Krsna is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of

Brahman and Paramatma. The yogis and jnanis are confused in their attempts to

understand Krsna, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Sripada

Sankaracarya, has admitted in his Gita commentary that Krsna is the Supreme

Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Krsna as such, for it

is very difficult to know Krsna, even though one has transcendental realization

of impersonal Brahman. Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of

all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda. Isvarah paramah krsnah

sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam. It is very

difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that

the path of bhakti or devotional service is very easy, they cannot practice it.

If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then

why do they take up the difficult path? Actually the path of bhakti is not

easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without

knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually according

to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall

away from the path. Srila Rupa Gosvami writes in his Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu:

sruti-smrti-puranadi-pancaratra-vidhim vina aikantiki harer bhaktir utpatayaiva

kalpate "Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic

literatures like the Upanisads, Puranas, Narada-pancaratra, etc., is simply an

unnecessary disturbance in society." It is not possible for the Brahman

realized impersonalist or the Paramatma realized yogi to understand Krsna the

Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of mother Yasoda or the charioteer of

Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about Krsna: "muhyanti

yat surayah,mam tu veda na kascana.No one knows Me as I am," the Lord

says. And if one does know Him, then "sa mahatma su-durlabhah.Such a great

soul is very rare." Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the

Lord, he cannot know Krsna as He is (tattvatah), even though one is a great

scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the

inconceivable transcendental qualities in Krsna, in the cause of all causes, in

His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty,

knowledge and renunciation, because Krsna is benevolently inclined to His

devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone

can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said: atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved

grahyam indriyaih sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah "No one can

understand Krsna as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself

to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving

service unto Him." (Padma Purana)

Copyright © 1972 by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Add

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